That Damned Economy
Examples:
- Dow Jones Industrial Average hits a 4 and a half year high last week. Reported in the US media? No. Courtesy of the Financial Times of London. And today? Up over 100 after yesterday's 80 point "correction."
- Ain't capitalism grand? Price goes up so people travel less; people travel less so supply inventories increase; Inventories increase so gas prices drop to 5 month low.
- And today, the rate of economic growth was revised UPWARDS for the third quarter (Jul-Sep) from 3.8% to 4.5%.
How much longer can the media keep it quiet that the economy is roaring along? Even the New York Times admits that the economy is growing at a tremendous rate, but they think it's bad news (probably because it helps republicans)
posted by SCC at 9:25 PM
90 Comments:
As long as my Deferred Comp goes up, then all is well in the grand scheme of things. Man cannot rely on pension alone. . . . Wish I'd maxed out years ago, but its tough with Catholic School Education to pay. Hey, we have Public Schools don't we . . . NOT
I've been maxed out for a whiile and my deferred comp was actually worth less than what I had paid into it during the recent setbacks. But now that everything is getting back on track, all those share I bought at a lower price will be increasing exponentially. Thank god for deferred comp. I don't know how you really old timers did it.
fuck BUSH he should get impeached just like clinton did!!!!!
Shut up liberal fuck!!!!!!
make me!!
ShLeMaY,
Maybe this will make you smile. You can say we have President Cumstain to thank for it. How his foresight brought us to this tremendous upswing in our financial world. If anybody asks you for reference material, say you read it in one of Hillary's books.
impeached for what?
BORING BORING SITE. This site is going down hill fast!
Okay, I have to reply to this thread or M. will call me out if I don't.
Answer me this. Are your finances better today than they were this time a year ago? Two years ago? What about mounting energy bills? This year's heating bills are said to be the highest ever. Gas prices drop to five month low. What is the price comparison from a year ago?
Figures can be thrown around to anyone's advanatage in an argument. One figure however doesn't lie. That is the 2000 plus American troops that have died. Add the 100,000 plus Iraqi citizens (not Iraqi troops)which have died. Now, talk about those figures.
Your 100,000 Iraqi's dead is a bullshit number. If you read the Lancet article fully (which you obviouosly haven't), they sampled 33 neighborhoods and extrapolated the deaths into "between 20,000 and 180,000." So you lefties and media goofs just picked the number exactly between 20,000 and 180,000. The Pentagon admitted for the first time last month that they HAVE been tracking Iraqi deaths and the number was about 26,000 (the low end of the Lancet estimate.) What you and your screeching moonbat companions aren't telling anyone is that over 20,000 of those deaths are directly attributable to the terrorist insurgents NOT the US Military.
Don't even throw up the sacrifices of 2,000 US troops to justify some wild Bush Derangement Syndrome conspiracy coming out of the left. You either start quoting accurate facts and figures and not bullshit leftist talking points, or we have nothing to talk about. We will not entertain illusions and fantasy masquerading as fact in regard to the conduct of our troops and their sacrifices.
Freedom is not free
never was never will be...
Even Daley , a war time parent , knows we're defending America's future.
God bless the american soldier past and present
When gas prices are artificially pumped up over $3.00 a gallon all of of suckers think its a bargain at $2.30. Thats how that works, dummy.
I agree with God bless the soldiers, but Sadam was terrorizing his own people. Why didn't we go after the Saudi's who are the principals in funding and assisting terror? Oh, Yeah thats right friends of the Bush's.
BTW G.W. might as well be a liberal leftist the way he has spent us into the ground. His deficit is more than all the other presidents.....COMBINED! Are he and the Magnificent Midget at City Hall related?
Oh and by the way....What ever happened to Osama. He's the guy who took a shit on America and embarassed us by being able to crash a plane into the fucking Pentagon, for Christsake. The G will always remind you about the twin towers but the Pentagon is always swept under the rug. This guy is still on the loose but we got Sadam. I feel much safer now.
i served in the military for six years so i feel i have the right to make a remark on this topic,i persrsonally dont feel we are better off financially than before.everything is so expensive,mortages,bills,gas,food,medical,etc...when do the rich elite of this country have enough money?if any of you bush loyalists have cable tv just watch Discovery Times on cable TV.It follows units that have deployed to Iraq for a year and all the kids that volunteered to fight for freedom/defend the u.s.against terrorists hate it there,the people,and say the people of iraq dont want them there.Most say that they dont believe what they are doing is worth the life of one comrad.alot say they will noot re-enlist when their contract is up and the military is having problems recruiting.they are even offering a $15,000 tax free bonus for re-enlisting in which many dont care if it was $30,000.What you people dont realize is that war has two purposes,1)to trim the population 2)to stimulate the economy.one is self explanatory and two big corporations support the daily functions of the military,defense companies products are in demand inturn jobs are kept or created.i believe after 9/11 someone had to pay for that attack but now i think the nation was taken advantage of and misled.today 10 more Marines were killed in Iraq in one the most deadliest attacks in several months. I dont believe we should cut and run but show the american people a exit date so that they can have something to look forward to of when thier loves ones will be out of harms way.now most of you will talk shit but i say to you know how to shoot a weapon if you feel so passionatly one this issue take the place of one of those soldiers or send your own child over there.to show how this country is backward the Soxs just signed Konerko to a 60 million contract to play a game and these brave men/women are getting paid peanuts who are risking life and limb for us. Many will be unempoyed when they return.The government will put them aside just like any other piece of military equipment that served its purpose and now is expendable.I believe all who served this nation should be garuanteed a job in any government position.You HEAR DALEY the dept is short,fill those spots with GULF VETERANS> Thier dd214 should be qualification enough.Sorry SCC but i for one do not agree with you this particular issue.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Can you smell the liberal fear? We are winning in the war against the Islamo-facists. The Iraqis are about to have their THIRD free election in the coming weeks. Saddam is going to have his crimes revealed to the world by his countymen in a public trial, and then justifiably exectued by the same former victims.
Here at home the financial markets are up. The housing market is up. Job creation is way up. Unemployment is way down. Over 150,000,000 Americans are employed. Life is getting better for the average man and the liberals can't stand it.
Greenspan gave soem warning...
“The likelihood of growing deficits in the unified budget is of especially great concern because the deficits would drain a correspondingly growing volume of real resources from private capital formation and cast an ever-larger shadow over the growth of living standards,” Greenspan said.
“In the end,” he warned, “the consequences for the U.S. economy of doing nothing could be severe.”
...
However, he said the positive short-term outlook for the economy was occurring against a backdrop of concern about the government’s long-term fiscal health.
“Our budget deficit will substantially worsen in the coming years unless major deficit-reduction actions are taken,” Greenspan said, echoing comments he made most recently in an appearance Nov. 3 before Congress’ Joint Economic Committee.
He again called for Congress to reinstate budget rules that expired in 2002 that required any future increases in benefit payments or cuts in taxes to be paid for by cutting government spending in other areas — or by increasing taxes.
© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
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Bush has to stop all of his deficit spending or we will be in for trouble.
Don't even throw up the sacrifices of 2,000 US troops to justify some wild Bush Derangement Syndrome conspiracy coming out of the left. You either start quoting accurate facts and figures and not bullshit leftist talking points, or we have nothing to talk about. We will not entertain illusions and fantasy masquerading as fact in regard to the conduct of our troops and their sacrifices.
12/02/2005 12:29:44 AM
BUSH LIED TROOPS DIED
Hey Tatu- How's FANTASY ISLAND treating you postumously? LAY OFF the TROPICAL DRINKS, lil' guy- you're got chicken hawk neo-con sugarplums dancing in your head! They've made our country an UNSAFE SUPER-PREDATOR DISGRACE! Send the Limbaugh's, Cheneys, Wolfowitz's, Pearle's etc to fight for once (not a soldier in the bunch!) THEN you'd really see some SURRENDER MONKEYS!!! EEEEP!!!!
say they will noot re-enlist when their contract is up and the military is having problems recruiting.they are even offering a $15,000 tax free bonus for re-enlisting in which many dont care if it was $30,000.What you people dont realize is that war has two purposes,1)to trim the population
-----
Simple logic. The military is having a helluva time trying to meet recruitment goals. They have lowered their numbers and still cant match. They increased the age to join, still cant match. Now they are offering $15,000 to rejoin, which is being turned down.
The military wouldn't be offering 15g's if they could meet the recruitment goals. They are desperate.
The reason no one is joining up/reenlisting is because there is no reason to be there. BUSH LIED TO GET US IN IRAQ. Plain and simple. There were no WMD, no Al Queda link, no nothing.
Ask the parents of the dead, ask the troops comming home in wheelchairs, missing arms and legs. Ask yourself if you'd send your own kid there for a lie.
WOW- this guy is GOOOOD!!! Nice posts! Is that you Lefty? ;-> I gotta learn to keep it lean like that!
Neo-Convicts BLOW!
from MSNBC
"
they were forecasting a gain of around 210,000 jobs. They also predicted the unemployment rate would stay at 5 percent.
"
That's a nice increase, but read the fine print. If the unemployment rate stayed at 5% means, that we lost 210,000 jobs!
Hope you dont work for Newsday....
Newsday cuts 72 more jobs and eliminates 40 vacancies
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BY RANDI F. MARSHALL
STAFF WRITER
December 2, 2005
Newsday yesterday dismissed 72 employees from across the newspaper and announced that 40 additional vacant jobs will be eliminated.
No "news gathering personnel" were affected by yesterday's announcement, according to a memo to employees from publisher Timothy P. Knight, issued yesterday afternoon. The move comes a month after the newsroom staff was reduced by 59 people, largely through buyouts.
Hope you don't work for Ford.... Bet they LOVE this economy!
Ford seen closing five plants, cutting 7,500 jobs
Report: Jobs cuts would be about 6 percent of workforce
Updated: 1:46 p.m. ET Dec. 2, 2005
NEW YORK - Ford Motor Co. is likely to close five North American plants as part of a restructuring plan still being developed for announcement next month, according to a newspaper report published Friday.
The Wall Street Journal reported that the nation’s second biggest automaker is likely to close assembly plants in St. Louis, Atlanta and St. Paul, Minn., under the plan that is still evolving and is subject to change. It cited two unidentified people familiar with the automaker’s product plans.
(typo fix re-post from 12/02/2005 01:23:30 PM)
SCC-
Gotta back up Lefty (& friends) here-
YOU'RE the one smoking Limbaugher Crack if you think there's any LESS of a typical "Vietnamesque" American-to-Enemy KILL ratio of less than 20-to-1. That gets us to 40,000 easily. Remember now "we" secretly totally obliterated what was left of their infrastructure for months via bombing before March 10th, 2003. So many of the Iraqis that have died again may not be directly "blown apart" but died due to lack of sanitation, medicine, etc.
AND since (thank God) our Battlefield Medical Staff have saved countless soldiers who would have in the past, let's add those roughly 20,000 US injured to the over 2,000 dead: 22,000 US "casualties" times 20 equals 440,000 "potential" Iraqi casualties. This a simple, easy & reliable way to estimate how many victims our obviously awesome war machine bowls over in practice. IT IS EASILY SIX FIGURES (over 100,000) in this Gulf War re-Deux. PROBABLY over a ONE MILLION total easily since Gulf War One- (and EASILY double or triple that if you count our role in getting Star-Spangled Puppet SADDAM to ATTACK IRAN in the early 80's, basically on OUR behalf (since IRAN has alway been a more credible "threat" to our selfish interests, not bitch boy Saddam's Iraq.))
YOU'VE been BRAINWASHED if you think that the organizations like the LANCET or the U.N. are "liberals" when they estimate how many Iraqis' croaked since Daddy Bush's initial invasion and Bubba Clinton's "keepin' it warm" daily "no-fly-zone" bombings"... yeah, WE, the INVADERS/OCCUPIERS should be believed when it comes to belated body count tallies- (pssshaw- what a JOKE!)
You go right ahead and play the "whore for war" denial game-
BOTTOM LINE:
IRAQ is a case of MASS MURDER committed by OUR Country- pogrom, mini-Holocaust, "High Grade Oil Refining", “Spreading Democracy” you name it while you like- it doesn't change the fact that WE'VE become what we read referred to around here about our West and South side "constituency"...
"THE BEAST"!
"IF WE (Military-Industrial-Shadow USA) CAN'T STEAL IT'S OIL, KEEP IT IN DEBT TO US, FLIP IT'S GOVERNMENT, OR CHOOSE IT'S OPPRESSIVE GENERALISSIMO STRONGMAN, WE WILL BOMB IT TO HELL!!!!!!!!!
OF COURSE BUSH JR. SHOULD BE IMPEACHED FOR LYING TO CONGRESS TO MAKE US THE FOURTH REICH- So many HIGH CRIMES AND MISDEMEANORS BABY! But get this- the Clinton Administration too- Bubba and everyone responsible for all the bombing, locked up too. No different really- just less GALL!
If you were to reconvene the NUREMBERG TRIBUNAL..., or if the U.N. wasn’t run by us lock, stock & barrel, pretty much ALL our recent "leaders" would HANG sooner than later! WAKE-UP! Get that boot camp indocrination outta yer head already- REVEILLE is playing, let’s not let the Bugle man play TAPS so often for a change, huh? (Especially for real Democracy!)
(But hey anyway- great job on the blog- a very Happy & Prodigious 500 + posts! Hope your holiday shopping is going well buddy! Take care of that fever- apple a day keeps the Iraqi doctor away- Pax Americana! (friendly sarcastic cynicism here))
to 12:16:47
What would you prefer? to fight the terrorists here as@ho&%, they killed almost 3000 americans sept 11. but then again liberals only care about getting back in power and to hell with our security. You are pathetic. And by the way, I thought this was a war about getting their oil, if so why are we paying over $2.00 a gallon?
IRAQI'S DIDN'T KILL 3,000 AMERICANS- 15 SAUDI'S AND A FEW YEMENIS DID... Afghanistan made sence, to get Bin Laden's boys- but IRAQ is PURE $IN!!!
=-=-=-
And YO Mrs. 1:57 PM "Can you smell the..."
The only thing I smell are the weak lies on YOUR breath, Mr. Disingenousity!
ELECTIONS UNDER OCCUPATION AFTER INVASION aren't FREE you DUPE! Sounds like VICHY FRANCE to ME! IF you must BECOME a FASCIST to DEFEAT ONE, what is gained? ZERO- and your integrity and goodness are lost in the bargain, if indeed you truly possessed any beforehand, which I am seriously beginning to doubt about us.
Oh, and re: Saddam's crimes- WE are the UNIDICTED CO-CONSPIRATOR... what happens to US? (ZERO! And we're doing it again, and again, and again... "THE BEAST is in the MIDDLE EAST!!!)
As for the economy, this housing bubble had better not burst too abruptly- IT REALLY the ONLY THING keeping us above water- artificially CHURNING and CHURNING imaginary inflated home valuations... that's why the Pol's don't want to stop the BOMBS... nothing left after that for the Star-Spangled Empire!
What Liberals can't stand is prevaricators like you pimping for war as if there were no morality- you might as well root for the Vice Lords or G/D's to have a record year selling and killing- because it's the same bloody thing!
try another smoke and mirror tactic, raise fuel prices to a astronomicl prices.blame the raise on the war,hurricanes,the rain, the wind,the cold,and the suv's.when people are used to paying almost $4.OO per gallon,then you lower the price to $2.50 a gallon,people think they are getting a big break. when in reality they shoved a 90 cent increase down our throats.Oil compannies making high profits and just look at all these gas stations remolding. Oh by the way is Bush in the oil business?
Not so good economy....
At the close of trading, the Dow lost 35.06, or 0.32 percent, to 10,877.51.
For the week, the Dow slipped 0.54 percent and the S&P 500 was off 0.25 percent
ELECTIONS UNDER OCCUPATION AFTER INVASION aren't FREE
********************
Now who's being a dupe? Let's see ... Japan, Italy, Germany, need we go on? And guess what? 60 years later WE STILL HAVE TROOPS THERE.
Then there's the fiction you keep throwing out there about everyone dying of lack of sanitation and such. That was SADDAM'S PROPOGANDA in the 1990's trying to get the UN sanctions lifted and you people eat it up like it's Moses coming down off of the Mountain. You realize what dupes you are repeating Saddam's BS?
Again, either you come up with facts instead of Saddam's retreads or we have nothing to talk about. Find us a Bush lie. Find us a grave with your 180,000 dead Iraqis. We've identified over 200 mass graves containing the remains of almost 500,000 of Saddam's victims and you're telling us the meida can't find almost 200,000 additional bodies the US military has hidden? Puh-lease.
YOU'VE been BRAINWASHED if you think that the organizations like the LANCET or the U.N. are "liberals" when they estimate how many Iraqis' croaked
***********************
More Bullshit. Read what we wrote and what the Lancet wrote. The Lancet wrote the number was BETWEEN 20,000 and 180,000. You defeatists chose the higher number to make Bush look bad and have been hammering it for months now. The pentagon releases an actual count and it's about 26,000 EXECTLY WHERE THE LANCET SAID IT WOULD BE. But does the left acknowledge this? Nope. "180,000" they scream over and over and over.
No one has to make Bush 2 look bad. He does a fine job on his own!
Door thwarts quick exit for Bush
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
2/hi/asia-pacific/
4454738.stm
Watch what happened
President George W Bush tried to make a quick exit from a news conference in Beijing on Sunday - only to find himself thwarted by locked doors.
After answering just six questions from a group of US reporters, the president strode away heading towards the door.
President Bush tugged at both handles on the double doors before admitting: "I was trying to escape. Obviously, it didn't work."
The video is GREAT! AHAHHAAHH He's almost TOO stupid..... Ya, let's go charge off to war for this guy.
Let's face it, he's a gawd-aweful prez! He cant talk, he can't even open a door! Yet he has a BA (more like a BS) from Yale and a MA from Harvard!! But you couldn't tell by listening to him. He should be exposed for the rich daddy's boy that we all know he is.
If Bush 2 was a sgt in Chicago, not the Prez, he'd be a laughing stock, NO ONE would take him seriously, but we would all know how he got those stripes!
I'd rather have Cheney or even Ollie North as Prez, not this silly little clown making a joke out of the US. I thought you Compassionate Conservatives were going to restore respect and honor to the White House after Bubba, or Cumstain or whatever else you call that guy.....
Thanks! Good Job!
I could give a flying fuck if Iraq has free elections! Why should (1) NationalGuardsman die for their free elections. Die to get Osama, yes that is defending our country die for Iraq no way. These guys are volunteers sworn to protect OUR country. Tell me about the giant role Iraq played in terrorism against the U.S. If this is why we are fighting then lets go after the real bad guys, the Saudis. We can't because the guys in power are their buddies. Also, tell me what war has ever been won using the current approach? You need all out destruction and take over to win a war. What we're doing in Iraq is a bunch of contact cards and dispersals. I am by no means a peace monger, but I am very opposed to a misdirected war lead by a misdirected draft-dodger.
Bush is the ultimate "merit pick". Daddy was the prez, now he is. The guy couldn't run a private company, but we let him run our nation. Spent his youth coked-up and drunk getting 501's. I bet a guy with that record couldn't even be the Supt. of this dept. let alone president. We are now in record debt with young-brave soldiers dying so some 3rd.world asshole can make it to the polls.
SCC-
Your math is way off- the figure exactly between 20,000 and 180,000 is the Lancet's 100,000- not your PENTAGRAM'S 26,000... (74,000 short of half way between the high and low number- just grab a calculator)
As for Bush lies... don't you remember those 16 "little" words from his pre-war State of the Union address that HE himself admits were wrong and shouldn't have been uttered?
"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa"
This is merely among all the other brazen shit they spewed since a few months after 9/11... the Twin Towers provided the EXCUSE to do to Iraq what they had been ITCHING to do for YEARS... "sweep it all up- things related and NOT" (Rumsfeld's note pad immediately after 9/11... O.B.L. & S.H... Rmember what Colin Powell's reaction was when Cheney and Tenet showed him the bullshit script for the U.N. in the run-up to the war-?
"I ain't reading this BULLSHIT!!"
Cheney replied- "Take it easy- Your poll numbers are the highest among us- you can take the hit!"
BLOODY BASTARDS!
What do you need it in- BRAILLE?
PUH-LEESE! You know- It'd be quicker to find BUSH TRUTHS than Bush Lies, since he's so SELDOM honest with us! He stands for LIES, and nothing but! What a tool of the man he is... screwing us daily!
Thank you Bush supporters! With out your help, I could not become your next president!!
to 5:05 post,like i previously said all these pro bush/war people should watch the DISCOVERY TIMES channel on cable tv and see how our young men/women are fighting terrorism in iraq.They send them out on patrols to drive down streets in hum-v's in groups of 4-5.They are sitting ducks for snippers and road side bombings. They (troops) believe that the iraqi police even give the insugents thier locations of patrols to set up ambushes. Heck in one episode a iraqi translator was dicovered to be a spy for the insurgents. If you dont believe me watch the show,it is all recorded live and not edited like the stuff the white house puts out there for the networks.
The question posed in this thread is, “How much longer can the media keep it quiet that the economy is roaring along?” I think the economy is a mundane issue when your country is at war. How appropriate is it to boast of our economy when 10 Marines just paid the ultimate sacrifice in Fallujah? President Bush was briefed on the Marines in Fallujah late Thursday and then Friday morning. He then chose to organize the press corps to make an announcement on the rosy economic picture. Shame on him, and any that want to talk about our benefits while the soldiers are dying. We are at war. Any economic discussion should focus on how we all should sacrifice to pay for our foreign policy choices. Instead of tax cuts we should all be pitching in to the federal coffers to at least pay for the Iraq War. That would mean we would at least share in some sort of sacrifice. It is absolutely an abrogation of our responsibilities as citizens to allow our soldiers to be fighting half way across the world, while we live our lives as if nothing is happening. We need to wake up, and it starts with leadership. This president and his followers live in fantasy land. Oh, and to answer the question, the media got it right. Today all the lead stories were about the Marines in Fallujah. SCC you can go back to fantasy land.
Should we have fought the nazis in Germany? They didnt attack us either but they were a threat just like Iraq.
Watch the Discovery/Times Channel? consider the source (NewYork Times). I prefer to talk to the soldiers and Marines that came back in person. Each one I have talked to are highly motivated and believe in what they are doing.
By the way Im a Veteran as well. And Hell Yes hire these youngs guys when they get back!
6:14,
You expect me to put any credence whatsoever into the NY Times own Uber Liberal drivel channel? I've never once seen anything on there that had even a hint of balance or fairness. Come up with better resources, besides liberal reporters and free-lance journalists, that could back up your claims.
Man Shady, when you walk into it, you walk into it wearing blinders -
"Niger found itself a pawn in the war against Iraq when both the U.S. and Britain claimed that Iraq sought to buy uranium from Niger, citing this as evidence that Saddam Hussein was reconstituting his country's nuclear weapons program. While the U.S. evidence for the Iraq-Niger uranium connection was exposed as a forgery, Britain's Butler report, released in July 2004, concluded the claim was “credible,” based on separate evidence." from www.infoplease. And Britain stands by this report to this DAY. Niger exports about four things: Cowpeas, cotton, goats and URANIUM. What do you think Iraq was there for?
Also, from the BBC (the left's own mouthpiece in Europe) on 07 July 04:
The US has revealed that it removed more than 1.7 metric tons of radioactive material from Iraq in a secret operation last month. [...] Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed. The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department's secret laboratories.
So where did Iraq get almost 2 tons of URANIUM? Again, you either start quoting accurate facts and figures and not bullshit leftist talking points, or we have nothing to talk about.
Hey S.C.C. (Mr. Actual Facts or Else...)
Why'd you leave this one LAST sentence off the first portion of your previous post?? Seems kinda SHADY on your part... ;=)
"...But the final report of the Iraqi Survey Group in Sept. 2004—the U.S. report assessing evidence of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction—concluded that the “ISG has not found evidence to show that Iraq sought uranium from abroad after 1991.”
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107843.html
And as to exactly where Iraq got their uranium- well I'm not quite sure- it could of been Niger, but quite a few years earlier, obviously. But they had at least 13 TONS MORE of it than you mentioned! And it was all o.k.'d by the I.A.E.A.! Sounds scary alright- but it wasn't quite the variety that could be used in a nuke- aw crud! And as long as the inspectors kept an eye on it Saddams' techies couldn't have made any "Baltimore Blockbusters"- they had no ballistic missiles left- so much for Bush, Cheney and Rice's "mushroom cloud" fearmongering in the lead up to their "wargasm". Regardless- let the reader decide who's right rather than mislead and denigrate your opponent by casting aspersions- post the whole paragraph and the link to the entire article (even if it doesn't make your assertion look as ironclad as one might like.) You righties will love the following quote is from a March 22nd, 2000 report by Mr. Paul Leventhal, President of the Nuclear Control Institute...
"Little is known about Iraq’s efforts to enrich uranium for bombs using centrifuges, and the possibility remains that a small centrifuge cascade for this purpose is hidden somewhere in Iraq. Iraq was permitted by the IAEA to retain possession of 1.7 metric tons of uranium enriched to 2.6% U-235, as well as some 13 tons of natural uranium stocks. This uranium, if used as feed material for centrifuges, could produce over 115 kilograms of bomb-grade highly enriched uranium, enough to make at least four nuclear bombs. Although the IAEA recently conducted a routine investigation to confirm that these uranium stocks had not been removed, such inspections are required only once a year, raising the possibility that Iraq could seek to enrich these materials to weapons grade between inspections."
http://www.nci.org/iraq/iraq322.htm
It's admittedly a cautionary tale about what Saddam could possibly have done if left unmonitored (and unbombed for the Clinton years.) But that wasn't a problem until YOUR guy huffed and puffed and got the inspectors out of there so they could do their little "Shock and Awe" routine... leading to our current shockingly awful dysfunctional occupation of a sovereign nation.
C'mon S.C.C.- carrying all this radioactive heavy water for these slimy $oylent Green war criminals is gonna stretch your arms down to the ground! It's not a "LEFTIST TALKING POINT if it's the TRUTH now, brother! You're like some long lost WW II Japanese Soldier lurking in a cave clutching your rifle not knowing your side has already lost- IT'S OVER- "Resident Bloodstain" Baby BUSH lied us into this Iraq quagmire...all of us. Now it's time to make them pay- jump on with the team for the BIG WIN, soldier! Then America can fight for Freedom again, like we used to back in the good old days! Patrick Fitzgerald for World's Sexiest President; and Karl Rove as Ebeneezer Indicted in "Scrooged- Plame's Revenge" with Dicky Cheney as the Ghost of Christmas Grinch...
We left off the final line because it deals with the survey taken in 2004 (as you so helpfully pointed out) over a year and a half AFTER the invasion. Hindsight might be 20/20 but it has NO relevance to the run up to the war. The country went to war based on the BEST AVAILABLE DATA at the time. Nobody manipulated intelligence data except the French (the forgeries in the article) and they did it to protect billions in Oil-for-Palaces money they were stealing. So once again, you are manipulating events to rewrite history.
Would you like us to pull out our library of quotes from the Clinton years outlining the case for continuing sanctions, UN resolutions, enforcement of the "no-fly" zone, and cruise missle attacks during "Operation (cover for Bill's blowjob) Desert Fox"?
Or how about the British, German, and Israeli intelligence services reports that saddam had WMD? EVERYBODY said he had them. He used them to slaughter Kurds in 1991.
Anyone on the left ever wonder where the 20 tons of VX that arrived in Jordan on trucks driven by al-qaida members ORIGINALLY came from? Too bad Bush/Cheney/Haliburton couldn't have planted it in Mousul to be found there, huh?
And what do you mean "Then America can fight for Freedom again, like we used to back in the good old days!" Since when has the left ever fought for freedom? Oh, wait - Vietnam? You people are going to claim Vietnam as a win now? or a fight for freedom? Let us guess again - Haiti? To reinstall a left wing dictator tossed out by a popular uprising? But we thought the will of the people was what mattered (like all your talking points say). Bosnia? But after the US pulled out our airpower and turned it over to the UN, they haven't had a free election in 14 years now. The UN and EU are still dicking around there. Somalia? What did Somalia have to offer our national interests and we left there anyway. I guess we're having trouble relating to your example.
Bush is the only one who said trusting in the restraint of saddam is not an option. That was and remains a damn good reason for going in and straightening out a situation that for too long was ignored by both left and right. If you keep kicking the can down the road, someone still has to pick it up eventually. Bush did. And you can't stand it.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
S.S./C.C.
Come on- I was talking about WORLD WAR TWO!
Remember? REAL BAD guys that we didn't use as puppets to have done our bidding? REAL BACON to SAVE (The Brits & the Frogs!) HOT Chicks and stuff?
THE LAST GOOD WAR!
(I know, no such thing!)
Time to come back home, re-group for a decade and finally get that PEACE DIVIDEND from the FALL of THE RED MENACE that's been given to the SAND MENACE! (Oh that's right- the dirty politicians and the wonderful Military Industrial Corporate Sector have gamed our system/economy so badly that we'd probably just collaspe and become Canada South if we didn't invade SOMEWHERE and rape it every 6.5 years or so- so silly of me to even think about a peaceful "Homeland"!)
Screw it- let's just TRY it for a long while- and let's give a nice couple year layoff to all the warmongering creeps in the CIA, NSA, OSP, WHIG, and all these COUNTLESS spook operations in DC and it's environs that have made the world think we ARE the Great Satan the radical Islamists claim we are!
Hey SCC...Haiti, Bosnia, and Somalia are three places where we are not spilling American blood. It's easy to support this war in Iraq when your blood is not being spilled. I have family over there, and I'd give a rats ass if Iraq is a western democracy or not. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the whole neo-con crowd play war games safe from the fray. They said he had WMD; they were wrong. They said the oil revenues would pay for this war; they were wrong. They said we would be greeted as liberators; they were wrong. They were told by the Pentagon that they would need a much larger deployment to ensure security, they would not allow it; they were wrong. They were given plans by the State Department on how to settle the political mess the country is in, they disregarded it; they were wrong. But when told 10 Marines were killed in Fallujah they call a press conference, and tell us how well the economy is doing. My question for SCC are you one of Bush's paid plants? Are you a domestic blogger paid to spread the good news of Dubya?
Anyone on the left ever wonder where the 20 tons of VX that arrived in Jordan on trucks driven by al-qaida members ORIGINALLY came from? Too bad Bush/Cheney/Haliburton couldn't have planted it in Mousul to be found there, huh?
I'd have more respect for them if they did!
Both you guys are jag offs! Ever think of this? ONE INNOCENT CIVILIAN killed is too much! You two are fight over whehter its 220,000 or "only" 180,000.
How would you like to have your mom blown up by a Chinnese bomber 30,000 ft up?? Wouldn't you get your M-16 out and start sniping Chinnese soldiers??
...I woke up one day and America became the Evil Empire.
We tried peace for 8 years under Clinton you softball and it got us 3000 dead Americans about 4 years ago. Go stick your head back up your hippie ass.
Hey 2:17, 9/11 and the Iraq war have no connection; even Bush admits that. Your head is up your ass!
blah blah blah its all related. Abraham has one bastard son and 6,000 years later we have people flying airplanes into buildings. Screw these jamokes
I think ShLeMaY (Shady Lefty MalcomY- same person, new name) is just pissed becaused he can't come across as down-trodden Iraqi on this board. Get a clue and review bongwater boiled statistics you marbleheaded moron.
01:59:21.....I agree, one innocent civilian killed is too many. But then again, so is over 3,000 innocent civilians too many! Have we forgotten the twin towers? Islamic fundamentalists (that's the whack job Islamics, not to be confused with regular Muslims) want America either Muslim or Dead! I don't like soldiers being killed overseas either, but I also don't want America to become the next Beirut.
Give me a simple answer that will secure America and I'll listen. Bringing the troops home before the job is done is not a simple answer.....it's asking for trouble. I'm listening
I'm still listening.....
Anonymous said...
We tried peace for 8 years under Clinton you softball and it got us 3000 dead Americans about 4 years ago. Go stick your head back up your hippie ass.
12/03/2005 02:17:34 PM
You guys don't know shit about history. SADDAM WAS A SECULARIST!!! You probably don't know, but a secularist is one who is indifferent to, or out rightly rejects religious considerations. He HATED the Islamic fundamentalists more than we do. And they hated him! Reagan/Bush 1 helped Saddam wage war against the fundamentalist Iran during the 80's.
Bush 2 still has failed to PROVE a link between Iraq and Al Queda. 16 out of the 19 9/11 hijackers were SAUDIS! Maybe Bush 2 doesn't know geography and really wanted to strike back at Saudi Arabia instead of Iraq. Wrong. Bush 2 is best friends with the Saudi royal court. We are supposedly trying to spread democracy to Iraq, but Bush 2's best friends in Saudi Arabia (the source country of the hijackers) are kings!
You want to take the fight to the terrorists? Well, there is Saudi Arabia. But YOUR GUY is friends with them!
Turn off Rush, and pick up a book. Learn some shit. Or atleast TRY to act smart buy keeping your fingers off the keyboard.
Anonymous said...
01:59:21.....I agree, one innocent civilian killed is too many. But then again, so is over 3,000 innocent civilians too many! Have we forgotten the twin towers? Islamic fundamentalists (that's the whack job Islamics, not to be confused with regular Muslims) want America either Muslim or Dead! I don't like soldiers being killed overseas either, but I also don't want America to become the next Beirut.
Give me a simple answer that will secure America and I'll listen. Bringing the troops home before the job is done is not a simple answer.....it's asking for trouble. I'm listening
12/04/2005 12:50:23 AM
Anonymous said...
I'm still listening.....
12/04/2005 01:45:36 PM
-------------
Nice loaded queastion.
How about I give you one: Just what is our "job" there?
Bush Aide: Troop Reductions May Come in '06
AP - 1 hour, 24 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The United States may be ready to reduce troops in Iraq next year if Iraqis continue making progress at the current rate, President Bush's national security adviser said Sunday. Stephen Hadley appeared on a round of Sunday talk shows to follow up on President Bush's speech on Iraq from the U.S. Naval Academy last week. Hadley echoed Bush's statement that decisions about troop withdrawals would be made when U.S. commanders there felt Iraqis were ready to govern and protect themselves without U.S. help, but said that could come as early as 2006.
Looks like your guys is answering your question for you.
about the Bush record:
He has taken the country into an unwinnable war and alienated friend and foe alike in the process;
He is bankrupting the country with a combination of aggressive military spending and reduced taxation of the rich;
He has deliberately and dangerously attacked separation of church and state;
He has repeatedly "misled," to use a kind word, the American people on affairs domestic and foreign;
He has proved to be incompetent in affairs domestic (New Orleans) and foreign ( Iraq and the battle against al-Qaida);
He has sacrificed American employment (including the toleration of pension and benefit elimination) to increase overall productivity;
He is ignorantly hostile to science and technological progress;
He has tolerated or ignored one of the republic's oldest problems, corporate cheating in supplying the military in wartime.
FBI reopens Niger probe
Forgeries helped justify Iraq war
Peter Wallsten, Tom Hamburger and Josh Meyer, Los Angeles Times
The FBI has reopened an inquiry into one of the most intriguing aspects of the debate on pre-Iraq war intelligence: How the Bush administration came to rely on forged documents linking Iraq to nuclear weapons materials as part of its justification for the invasion.
The documents inspired intense U.S. interest in the buildup to the war -- and they led the CIA to send a former ambassador to the African nation of Niger to investigate whether Iraq had sought the materials there. The ambassador, Joseph C. Wilson IV, found little evidence to support the claim, and the documents were later deemed to have been forged.
This is awesome! screw all of these Repubicrats and Demopubicans!
CLINTON = BUSH, BUSH = CLINTON.
------
WAR PROTESTERS IN CHICAGO INTERRUPT HILLARY CLINTON
Saturday, December 03, 2005, 2:26 p.m.
By Jennifer O'Neill
WBBM Newsradio 780
She Tells Group She Appreciates Their Intensity - CHICAGO -- Two dozen or so student activists didn't stop U.S. Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton during a speech today at Roosevelt University.
WBBM's Jennifer O'Neill was there: LISTEN HERE
Clinton was interrupted several times during a speech at Roosevelt University Saturday morning by young adults protesting the Iraq war.
The Democratic New York Senator was the keynote speaker during the American Democracy Institute's First Leadership Development Summit.
She was there to give a speech about the power young people have in affecting policy in their communities.
Clinton did address the protesters, but she never stopped her speech.
First, a group in the balcony chanted and held signs that together read "Out of Iraq."
They were silenced after a minute or so while someone else held up a sign nearby.
Then a group elsewhere in the auditorium starting chanting.
Some of it was inaudible, but they could be heard at one point saying "Troops Out Now."
Clinton addressed them, saying she appreciates their passion and intensity, and that she would address their concerns at the end of her speech, but that she didn't believe the audience wanted to hear from them at the moment, receiving applause from the audience.
Flyers were also thrown down from the balcony, accusing Democrats and Republicans of being alike when it comes to Iraq policy...and condemning Senator Clinton for voting for Iraq invasion in 2002.
Clinton did address the war at the end of her speech...saying she wishes we could turn back time, but we can't, and we now have to create strategy based on fact.
She said the upcoming Iraqi elections are a turning point.
She said she's not for an immediate pullout, but she's not for keeping our troops there forever either.
Stay tuned to WBBM Newsradio 780 for the latest developments on this and other stories.
Unwinnable? What victories do the terrorist have? What teritory do they hold? You're a defeatist from the word go.
Aggressive military spending? We're are in a war you asshole. What are we supposed to do, roll over? Oh yeah, you want America to lose. Reduced taxation on the rich? As a cop, I ain't rich and I saw my tax burden go down. And tax cuts generate more tax revenue. Take economics 101 and learn something.
Separation of church and state? Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion. So he's Christian, big deal. There's a whole group of muslims out there wanting to kill you. Why not bitch to them about religion?
Misled? Don't think so. Just because you don't read anything except the new york times doesn't mean that you are getting the truth. The times has been lying for years.
Domestic affairs? Who's in charge of the levee system? Louisiana and New Orleans, not the US Government. Who is responsible for local evacuations? Local authority, not the US Government. Who is responsible for distribution of disaster aid? State government, not the US Government. My god, you an ignorant fuck.
American employment? Unemployment is at it's lowest level in over a decade. Pension and benfit elimination? Have you see what Richie Daley is doing to our retirees? How is that Bush's doing? United Airlines? A corrupt company making savings by screwing pension plans. How is that Bush's fault?
Ignorantly hostile to science and technology? Where? The only thing we can think of is stem cell research and all he wants is Federal funding out of that research. States can fund all the research they want and in California, Arnold has actually begun state initiatives to fund bio research. Private companies are welcome to spend their money too, but everyone wants a piece of the Federal pie, draining resources from other projects.
If you have evidence of corporate war profiteering, put it up or contact the FBI. Corporations have always made profits, that's why they exist and are so much better than the government at doing everything. And don't drag up Halliburton, which is actually looking to unload its war materials division because it drags down the rest of the corporate bottom line. Otherwise you are just a typical ignoramus. shut up.
SCC haven't you noticed something lately? Whenever you do a post regarding G Dub or the Iraq War all the trolls come out of the hippy woodwork. It may be my imagination but I think ShLeMaY has stopped taking his meds and has assumed multiple personalities! You wouldn't get this many hits even posting about "implants - good or bad".
Its because even lifelong conservatives like myself can't stomach having a coke-head retard running our country. You guys are acting like the liberals who can't think for themselves/and support their leaders even when they are obviously wrong.
I'll say this, There is enough information out regarding links between Saddam and Al Qaida. The following is only what I can remember off the top of my head, I know there is more.
1.Zarqawi was in afganistan when we went in and got wounded and fled in 2001. Where did he flee to? Saudi? Jordan? Iran? NO. He went to Iraq. He was set up by Saddams boys and had two years to set up shop in Iraq.
2.Ansar Al Islam was an Al qaida affiliate supported by Saddam that operated in the North of Iraq.
3. The embassy bombings in Africa. It came out in the trial that Iraqi security agents were tied in with the Terrorists responsible.
4. A captured colonel in the Saddam Fedayeen was a member of al Qaida.
5. The Chechs stand by their intelligence that Mo Atta met with Iraqi agents in Chechlosovakia (sp). The libs will scream that it isnt true because his cell phone was used at the same time in Florida. DUH, maybe he gave it to someone to use while he was away in Europe.
I guess nothing less than a picture of Saddam and Osama giving each other a bear hug will appease these goofball hippys. I know why this stuff isnt more well known, and that is because this information gets buried on the back pages of the newspapers.
I'm curious if anyone really regards the democrats as a solution to anything. They could even get a cumstain out of a dress for cripes sake!
All I got from 3:33:53 was a question. You're not supposed to answer a question with a question.
So...I'm still listening
Nice try- but I think Monica kept the dress with spunk stain and all because it was a souvenir of sorts. She hunted and got her man!
As for pictures, if you can get me video & pix of Saddam and Osama shaking hands with big ole' sh*t-eatin' grins on like the vid & pix of "Rummy" Rumsfeld locked in the Vulcan Mind Meld with Hussein, then maybe we might buy your Bushwackaganda!
Hell, maybe sweet Miss Monica could make herself useful finally find us Osama Bin Laden if she's seeking a little male companionship... she apparently doesn't take her eye off the ball... or her mouth off the pole! He's rich, important, driven, already taken/emotionally unavailable (smitten with Allah)... he's a perfect HARD target for her!
Ahh, If only Bush Junior had been as distracted as Bubba over a little tail. OIL just drives Junior to distraction I guess- Twin Towers asunder, nearly 3,000 dead, invade the wrong country, torturing, recruiting more terrorists, over 2,000 more US Citizens dead, countless others... record dieficits, tax cuts for the rich in a time of "war", medicare shell game, social security ponzi scheme, FEMA dismantling, bogus religiousity, voting shams...
Yeah- it's "hard work prezidentin' THIS good... need lots of time off to root out them armadillas and rest `n' recuperate... golfing... hard work..."
- ydahS ;-P
P.S.- Any resemblance to other actual left-leaning cyber-sock puppets here is purely coincidental and incorrectly inferred on your part (Hi Lefty! Welcome Little, Malcolm... "X" marks the spot!) WE are three, n ot one-
P.S> Deux- Looks like more open minded folk are "getting on the record" with understandable misgivings about GWB, the Poor Little Rich Boy... keep them cards and letters comin'! ;-) Welcome and thanks for sharing- good to know that there are still DECENT REPUBLICANS on this job/out there who haven't been hoodwinked hook, line & sinker by the Faux Views Propaganda Machine! No more War is Peace, Freedom isn't Free, Ignorance is Strength- the Winston BUSH Smith Shit Sandwich with Extra-Strength Guyana Kool-Aid! Wake up the rest of you... the jokes on you most of all!
RE: OUR BATTLE FOR "HEARTS & MINDS" in IRAQ
Just depressing video- you'd expect better from pre-teens... with Elvis on their speakers...From Hell to Iraq- With Love... paid for by you and me...
(PC- Windows Media Video)
(Mac- Quicktime Video)
As the Pelvis once remarked-
"Hoo-boyyy; Fourteen years, right down the DRAIN, man- hot damn tamale!"
The entire awful, yet somehow unsurprising story here... globalresearch.ca
SCC...Please go on the record, are you paid to print good stories about the administration? Heard reports that the Pentagon is spending over 100 million to spread the Gospel according to Dubya in the Iraq press. With his approval ratings in the dumper, I'm sure there is much more cash available in the domestic sector. If you're not cashing in, you're a sucker.
If you're also a steady reader of Informed Comment, Dr. Cole didn't say much you don't know already. But he did explore one intriguing theory that I hadn't heard before, which is the possibility that all of the players in this bloody game -- and not just the Cheney administration -- may be perpetuating the myth that the Iraq insurgency is now largely controlled by the diabolical Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his band of fanatical fundamentalist fighters, Al Qaeda in Iraq.
This would not only mean that American forces have been on a wild goose chase (in which approximately 10,538 of Zarqawi's "senior lieutenants" have been captured so far) but that both the Cheney administration and the real masterminds of the insurgency are selling the same fraud -- as are our "allies" in Baghdad.
What's more, each party knows that the others know, and they each know that the others know that they know, and so on. The only ones left outside this loop of knowledge are the poor saps doing the chasing, and of course the folks back home. And even they may be beginning to suspect something.
Juan Cole doesn't claim that Zarqawi and his group are complete fictions, although the "Al Qaeda in Iraq" label appears to be a flagrant violation of Bin Ladin's intellectual property rights, possibly perpetuated by some Internet wannabes who don't have any connection to either crew. But Cole does make the case that the strength and influence of "foreign fighters" in Iraq has been even more exaggerated than I assumed, and that the key underground networks sustaining the insurgency are all probably run by remnants of the old Ba'ath security services.
Anonymous said...
All I got from 3:33:53 was a question. You're not supposed to answer a question with a question.
So...I'm still listening
12/04/2005 10:36:07 PM
You blaming me for your lack of an exist strategy is analogous to us owning an apartment building together when you lost all our money at the boats and then attacking me when the building burns down and we cannot afford to rebulid.
I asked you what our "job" was because that is tantamount to my answer. I cannot give you a proper answer when the question is too vauge or too loaded. And since you want to play the 3rd grade game of "I asked you first" I'll answer for you.
*Is our job to illegally invade a sovereign nation? Done and done. We can leave now.
*Is our job to locate those pesky WMDs? Forget it, if we haven't found them we never will. We can go home now.
*Is our job to lock up Saddam? Done and done. We can leave now.
*Is our job to destabulize Iraq to the point of helplessness by chasing out all the police, fire, military, teachers, technicians, scientists, lawyers, judges, contractors, and etc just because they were forced to be members of the Ba'athist party? Done and done. We can leave now.
*Is our job to force democracy upon a people that have no concept of it. We will have to stay for decades to accomplish this. Is this worth our time and money? No, it's not. We can leave, let them fight it out, and let the winner take all.
*Is our job to allow Iraq to become a fundamentalist heaven. Done and done. We can go home now.
*Is it our job to allow Iraq to become a Islamic theocracy instituting Sharia, The Law of Allah, as the back ground of their interim consitution? Well, if we are here for their freedom (remember that little title Bush 2 gave this spat: Operation Iraqi Freedom) then we have no choice but to allow them to do what they want. We can go home now.
*Is our job to chase around the ghostly spectre of al Queda until they quit? We will have to stay for centuries or adjust our tactics (ie nukes, chem, bio attacks). Because for every 1 innocent civ that get killed (see posts above) I will moderately say you will create 1+ al Quada (al Queda = any anti-American towel head). To have victory against al Queda would take Nazi-style measures.
*Is our job to poison the gound and water with the illegal depleated uranium munitions that we use causing untold illnesses for years to come like we did in Serbia and Kosovo? Done and done. We can go home now.
*Is our job to demoralize the US military to the point that recruiters have to bribe people $15,000 tax free to join thus weakening our fighting ability in the case of a real threat. Then we can stay longer.
*Is our job to steal their oil? That will require us to stay for decades. It will cost alot of money and US lives.
*Is our job to boost the profits of military contractors? If yes, well then hell let's stay forever!
CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW??
3:14 Wow
What a bunch of nonsense.
DU rounds are not illegal, we have been using them for years, never heard once that they were illegal.
There were 14 UN resolutions that gave us the authority, as well as congress to go into Iraq. Therefore it is not illegal.
It is only your perception based on biased media reports that things are going badly in Iraq. I stated earlier in previous posts, talk to the military themselves, you will get a different story.
Dual use Chem factories were found along with 1.77 tons of uranium, oh and the missles to deliver the munitions.
The military has always offered bonuses to enlist and to re-enlist. I got 8 grand when I enlisted 20 years ago. Oh and the re-enlisted rates are exceeding the goals. The only branch below enlisted goals is the army, by not much.
So take the tinfoil hat off and open your eyes.
Tuesday, November 29, 2005
Republicans now saying WMD were found in Iraq
by John in DC - 11/29/2005 02:20:00 PM
And we wonder why 70% of Republicans think Bush is a good president? Because they're gullible idiots who lie, and are willing to be lied to. And if you're a Republican reading this, and it pisses you off, good. Do something about it. You sit back and you let your own far-right party leaders and party organizations lie to you and lie to the public, and you do nothing to correct those lies or hold those leaders accountable.
Do something about it, or stop complaining when we rightfully point out that the GOP is a party of liars, idiots, and lemmings.
To wit: The latest email I just received from Newsmax, a far-right GOP-sucking online news-zine. The subject line of the email: WMDs Found in Iraq!
Uh huh.
According to the Newsmax email (apparently it's on behalf of Human Events, another Republican rag, and they're pushing some new book that exposes the media's bias - uh huh), we learn that we've discovered in Iraq:
1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium
1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents
Chemical warheads containing cyclosarin (a nerve agent five times more deadly than sarin gas)
Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form meant for dispersal over populated areas
This is only a PARTIAL LIST of the horrific weapons verified to have been recovered in Iraq to date. Yet, Americans overwhelmingly believe U.S. and coalition forces found NO weapons of mass destruction.
The question is... WHY do they believe this lie?
So why is that Americans don't know about this amazing truth? Two guesses. More from Newsmax:
Have you heard that Osama bin Laden is on kidney dialysis? I'll bet you have. Much of the Western media report bin Laden's presumed affliction as a matter of fact -- and most Americans believe it. But...
...it's just not true.
Now, you may well be thinking: "Why would the news media want to make me believe that Osama bin Laden is a very sick and perhaps dying man?" Well, here's why...
The news media are -- overwhelmingly -- against the Iraq War.
Wow, pretty amazing stuff. Only problem is, the story about Bin Laden on dialysis didn't come form the media, it came from, among others, George Bush's number one ally in the war on terror, Pakistani President Musharraf:
"I think now, frankly, he is dead for the reason he is a ... kidney patient," Gen. Pervez Musharraf said on Friday in an interview with CNN.
Musharraf said Pakistan knew bin Laden took two dialysis machines into Afghanistan. "One was specifically for his own personal use," he said.
Holy crap in my pants, Batman. But there's more. The "lie" about bin Laden and dialysis also came from a senior official in the Bush administration. From the same CNN piece:
"A senior Bush administration official said.... U.S. intelligence is that bin Laden needs dialysis every three days and "it is fairly obvious that that could be an issue when you are running from place to place, and facing the idea of needing to generate electricity in a mountain hideout."
Doh! But I'm confused. Newsmax and Human Events and the far-right Republicans running the GOP wouldn't lie to us, would they?
But, hey, notice how CNN is all too happy to publish these "lies" about Bin Laden needing dialysis - so maybe Newsmax is right, CNN WANTED to get these lies out there. More from CNN:
Other U.S. officials contradicted the reports of bin Laden's health problems, saying there is "no evidence" the suspected terrorist mastermind has ever suffered kidney failure or required kidney dialysis. The officials called such suggestions a "recurrent rumor."
What? You mean CNN, a member of the liberal anti-Bush fag-loving mainstream media actually publicly doubted the Osama dialysis story? But Newsmax and Human Events told me that the mainstream media was actually PUSHING this story. I'm so confused.
Like I said. The Republican party is the party of liars, idiots, and lemmings. And don't forget traitors too. They can't handle the truth, so they'd rather just make shit up.
And by the way, I hear we're winning in Iraq.
This wasn't hard to find. Please read this. Don't just blow it off. I also found a picture of the effects DU has on unborn babies that are exposed, if you want to see.......
The article lists the specific international laws that use of DU violates. The article does however failed to mention that DU was used in Serbia and Kosovo.
----
US forces' use of depleted uranium weapons is 'illegal'
By Neil Mackay, Investigations Editor
BRITISH and American coalition forces are using depleted uranium (DU) shells in the war against Iraq and deliberately flouting a United Nations resolution which classifies the munitions as illegal weapons of mass destruction.
DU contaminates land, causes ill-health and cancers among the soldiers using the weapons, the armies they target and civilians, leading to birth defects in children.
Professor Doug Rokke, ex-director of the Pentagon's depleted uranium project -- a former professor of environmental science at Jacksonville University and onetime US army colonel who was tasked by the US department of defence with the post-first Gulf war depleted uranium desert clean-up -- said use of DU was a 'war crime'.
Rokke said: 'There is a moral point to be made here. This war was about Iraq possessing illegal weapons of mass destruction -- yet we are using weapons of mass destruction ourselves.' He added: 'Such double-standards are repellent.'
The latest use of DU in the current conflict came on Friday when an American A10 tankbuster plane fired a DU shell, killing one British soldier and injuring three others in a 'friendly fire' incident.
According to a August 2002 report by the UN subcommission, laws which are breached by the use of DU shells include: the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; the Charter of the United Nations; the Genocide Convention; the Convention Against Torture; the four Geneva Conventions of 1949; the Conventional Weapons Convention of 1980; and the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, which expressly forbid employing 'poison or poisoned weapons' and 'arms, projectiles or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering'. All of these laws are designed to spare civilians from unwarranted suffering in armed conflicts.
DU has been blamed for the effects of Gulf war syndrome -- typified by chronic muscle and joint pain, fatigue and memory loss -- among 200,000 US soldiers after the 1991 conflict.
It is also cited as the most likely cause of the 'increased number of birth deformities and cancer in Iraq' following the first Gulf war.
'Cancer appears to have increased between seven and 10 times and deformities between four and six times,' according to the UN subcommission.
The Pentagon has admitted that 320 metric tons of DU were left on the battlefield after the first Gulf war, although Russian military experts say 1000 metric tons is a more accurate figure.
In 1991, the Allies fired 944,000 DU rounds or some 2700 tons of DU tipped bombs. A UK Atomic Energy Authority report said that some 500,000 people would die before the end of this century, due to radioactive debris left in the desert.
The use of DU has also led to birth defects in the children of Allied veterans and is believed to be the cause of the 'worrying number of anophthalmos cases -- babies born without eyes' in Iraq. Only one in 50 million births should be anophthalmic, yet one Baghdad hospital had eight cases in just two years. Seven of the fathers had been exposed to American DU anti-tank rounds in 1991. There have also been cases of Iraqi babies born without the crowns of their skulls, a deformity also linked to DU shelling.
A study of Gulf war veterans showed that 67% had children with severe illnesses, missing eyes, blood infections, respiratory problems and fused fingers.
Rokke told the Sunday Herald: 'A nation's military personnel cannot wilfully contaminate any other nation, cause harm to persons and the environment and then ignore the consequences of their actions.
'To do so is a crime against humanity.
'We must do what is right for the citizens of the world -- ban DU.'
He called on the US and UK to 'recognise the immoral consequences of their actions and assume responsibility for medical care and thorough environmental remediation'.
He added: 'We can't just use munitions which leave a toxic wasteland behind them and kill indiscriminately.
'It is equivalent to a war crime.'
Rokke said that coalition troops were currently fighting in the Gulf without adequate respiratory protection against DU contamination.
The Sunday Herald has previously revealed how the Ministry of Defence had test-fired some 6350 DU rounds into the Solway Firth over more than a decade, from 1989 to 1999.
DU is used in the armored plating of every Main Battle Tank in existence and every up-armored Humvee. It's a dense metal with less background radiation that what you find in an open field on a sunny day.
Thanks, I can hear you now. And judging by what you're saying, if I could See you now, I'd see you talking out of your ass.
But you're entitled to your opinion like everyone else and you obviously believe I'm talking out of my ass. So here we are, two people talking out of our asses.
I don't agree with you and firmly believe if we just up and left as you would like, the terrorists would claim victory and attack us with greater zeal.
I hate the loss of life going on in Iraq, but fear the greater loss of life if we do not stay.
Depleted Uranium Toxicity in Afghanistan
by Richard S. Ehrlich
DEPLETED URANIUM: A MEDICAL DISASTER
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — American warplanes are attacking Afghanistan with depleted uranium weapons which could poison combatants and civilians, especially children, according to U.S. officials.
The possibility of radioactive dust storms sweeping across Afghanistan and polluting rivers has meanwhile sparked fears in Pakistan.
"The radioactive dust released by the impact of these weapons can easily get into the food chain and the water supply through the Kabul River in Afghanistan and thus into Pakistan's Indus [River]," reported Dawn newspaper.
"There are simply no contingency measures to brace people against such a disastrous humanitarian fallout," Dawn added.
The narrow Kabul River cuts through the center of the heavily bombed, mile-high Afghan capital and provides drinking water for the people who dwell there.
After meandering east along the highway past Jalalabad and other U.S. bomb targets, the Kabul River crosses into Pakistan and feeds the Indus River, the country's biggest waterway. The Indus provides much of the liquid nourishment to Pakistan's farms and people along its route south to the Arabian Sea.
Pakistani Dr. Ali Rind warned Dawn's readers: "All flying bombs — Tomahawk, JDAM etc. — are made of depleted uranium metal."
Many experts insist the dangers of depleted uranium are often exaggerated.
Dr. Michael H. Repacholi of the World Health Organization, however, said in a January report: "DU [deleted uranium] is released from fired weapons in the form of small particles that may be inhaled, ingested or remain in the environment."
Dr. Repacholi said, "For smaller particles, a larger fraction will deposit in the lungs, where they may remain for months or years, unless they dissolve. Very small amounts may be retained in the lymphatic system for longer."
He added, "Breathing ultra-fine particles could lead to a theoretical risk of cancer.
"In arid regions, most DU remains on the surface as dust. It is dispersed in [non-arid] soil more easily, particularly in the areas of higher rainfall."
Dr. Repacholi stressed, "Children rather than adults may be considered to be more at risk of DU exposure when returning to normal activities within a war zone through contaminated food and water, since typical hand-to-mouth activity of inquisitive play could lead to high DU ingestion from contaminated soil."
Depleted uranium is "used in several types of munitions, but primarily in two types: it's used in 120-millimeter tank rounds and it's used in 30-millimeter rounds fired by the A-10," Defense Department spokesperson Kenneth H. Bacon told a newsconference in January.
The dreaded A-10 "Wart Hog" is a so-called a "tank killing" aircraft.
Every 30-millimeter round it fires has a 0.3-kilogram, depleted uranium "penetrator" to bust through armor, according to military reports.
Depleted uranium is "primarily for anti-armor, and those are its main uses," Mr. Bacon said.
"We obviously put out instructions about avoiding depleted uranium dust," he added.
"Troops are instructed to wear masks if they're around what they consider to be atomized or particle-ized depleted uranium — that is if rounds have struck tanks, there could be depleted uranium dust around.
"So if they were working around an [enemy] tank that had been disabled by a depleted uranium round, they would be instructed to wear some sort of mask to prevent breathing in particles," Mr. Bacon said.
"All our studies show that in cases where there is dust, it [depleted uranium] is washed away and nullified by the first heavy rain.
"But there aren't a lot of heavy rains in the desert, so obviously, when we were advising our soldiers how to deal with depleted uranium damage, or damaged vehicles in the desert, we were careful to point out that they should wear masks."
Depleted uranium is described as uranium that is 40 percent less radioactive than natural uranium, though it retains identical chemical properties.
Natural uranium is found in everyday air, water and soil and, as a result, is also in each person's body.
Depleted uranium, however, has a half-life of 4.5 billion years.
In 1998, the Pentagon noted: "Depleted uranium is the most effective material for [military] uses because of its high density and the metallic properties that allow it to 'self-sharpen' as it penetrates armor.
"Armor containing depleted uranium is very effective at blunting anti-tank weapons," the Pentagon added.
"The major health concerns about DU relate to its chemical properties as a heavy metal rather than to its radioactivity, which is very low."
Shrapnel from a depleted uranium weapon's explosion can pepper a victim's body much like a shotgun blast.
If the shrapnel remains embedded in a person, then the radiation "isn't eliminated," an expert said at a Defense Department briefing.
"By accumulation, is the [radioactive] dose increasing with time? Yes, it is," the expert added.
Dr. Ross Anthony, from the Rand Corporation, told the Defense Department briefing, "The kidney is the part that is the most susceptible."
In experiments with animals, however, "there seem to be no real highly negative effects until you get a very, very high dose," Dr. Anthony said.
In 1999, Steve Fetter and Frank von Hippel wrote in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists: "Radiation doses for soldiers with embedded fragments of depleted uranium may be troublesome.
"Apart from radiation, however, the risks related to the heavy-metal toxicity of uranium inhaled and ingested by soldiers in direct and unprotected contact with vehicles struck with DU munitions could be significant.
"Primarily at risk are those who were in vehicles when they were struck, or their rescuers, as well as those who worked for extended periods in cleanup efforts inside the vehicles without adequate respiratory protection," they added.
"Very prolonged exposure to high concentrations of depleted uranium is required to give radiation doses significantly above [normal] background" levels.
"Pieces and particles of depleted uranium lying about would be sources of most of the external radiation dose, which would come primarily from penetrating gamma rays.
"Inhalation of DU-contaminated dust — either directly or after resuspension [in the air] — would be the source of most of the internal dose, which would be primarily from very short-range alpha particles."
Referring to desert dust storms, the bulletin said, "The ground the DU-contaminated plumes passed over would be coated with a thin layer of DU dust, some of which would be later kicked up by wind and human activity.
"The munitions could deposit a layer of [depleted uranium] dust on crops that could be eaten directly by humans or by animals later consumed by humans.
"However, rough estimates suggest that the cancer risk from consumption of contaminated produce would be less than from inhalation."
As a result of the U.S.-Gulf War, "the number of Iraqi soldiers with embedded DU fragments could be in the thousands," the bulletin said.
"Natural curiosity may also lead children and other passersby to investigate the interiors of destroyed tanks and other vehicles...which would subject them to danger from DU dust," it warned.
"Such vehicles should be made inaccessible, perhaps by being buried and then pumped full of concrete."
Critics have expressed concern over depleted uranium contamination on battlefields which do not receive environmental clean-ups.
Some critics claimed birth defects among babies born in Iraq after the Gulf War — including headless victims and others with deformed limbs — may be linked to the U.S. use of depleted uranium.
Richard S. Ehrlich lives in Bangkok, Thailand. His web page is located at http://members.tripod.com/ehrlich, and he may be reached by email at animists@yahoo.com.
Sounds like depleted uranium is some dangerous shit! Hmmm, but if you're on the receiving end of DP, aren't we trying to kill you?
The article you quote has at least one contradiction - some pack-of-Stanley doctor says every bomb is made of DU and then some other military source says it's only in Warthog munitions and main tank gun rounds. Uranium storms? This sounds like typical leftist BS.
Well, if you turn off the light and you GLOW- then you know it's time to GO!
HOME!
Bring our boys and girls back and send the rich fat old war-mongering CHICK-HAWKS and their FAMILIES!
(Cheney- FIVE Deferments "Grumble-hmmmnpf- "I HAD OTHER PRIORITIES..." grumble-harumphf)
GO FUCK YERSELF MISTER CHENEY!
Anonymous said...
Sounds like depleted uranium is some dangerous shit! Hmmm, but if you're on the receiving end of DP, aren't we trying to kill you?
12/06/2005 07:10:28 AM
Cmon guy, you have to be smarter than this. If we are shooting at you then YES you should die.
But the point is that DU POISONS THE GROUND AND THE WATER and thus some of the people that we are NOT shooting at die also.
Get it? If everyone is an enemy, why the hell are we shooting bullets?? We should be dropping nukes or bio/chem.
Anonymous said...
Thanks, I can hear you now. And judging by what you're saying, if I could See you now, I'd see you talking out of your ass.
But you're entitled to your opinion like everyone else and you obviously believe I'm talking out of my ass. So here we are, two people talking out of our asses.
I don't agree with you and firmly believe if we just up and left as you would like, the terrorists would claim victory and attack us with greater zeal.
I hate the loss of life going on in Iraq, but fear the greater loss of life if we do not stay.
12/05/2005 10:52:29 PM
The 'Ole Agree to Disagree. I like it. Stalemates are good from time to time. A chance to regroup and reassess.
In the spirit of the good debate, you should pick one of the answers I offered. Why are we there still?
Do a search for "Islamic law in Iraq" otherwise known as Sharia. The former US Admin'er Bremmer put the kabash on the interim constit. being based on Sharia. No joke. I try to get my daily dose of propaganda by watching the "liberal" nightly news. Yet for being "liberal" the media never mentioned the US "speading freedom" by forcing out a certain style of law that has been important to Muslims since the 600's. Not very "liberal" if you ask me.
Most conservatives have thrown up by now reading this (if they even got this far). My point will be a blindsiding one. I maybe more conservative than you think.
So, why are we there still?
Anonymous said...
The article you quote has at least one contradiction - some pack-of-Stanley doctor says every bomb is made of DU and then some other military source says it's only in Warthog munitions and main tank gun rounds. Uranium storms? This sounds like typical leftist BS.
12/06/2005 02:05:55 PM
Your so called contradiction is irrelavent. If you read the first post about DU, it lists the international laws that prohibit the use of DU. Do you know what the word law means? It's not leftist BS, a law is a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority. The US signed up with those international laws. The US was probably the originating country for some of them. ANY use of DU is illegal. That military source you paraphrased just incriminated himself. It does not matter that EVERY bullet, bomb, missile, knife, whatever has DU in it. What matters, legally, is that ANY bullet, bomb, etc has DU in it.
a law is a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority
*************************
OK smart guy, find me the "law" that regulates it. And if you quote the "UN" as some form of "controlling authority," then find me anything that subjegates the United States to the will of the UN. You won't be able to.
Ummm, I served in the Army and for 4 years. I sat in a Tank that had 63 rounds, half of which were depleted uranium sabot rounds. Im fine, no sickness no nothing.
Quoting from a corrupt UN is not a basis in fact.
Anonymous said...
Ummm, I served in the Army and for 4 years. I sat in a Tank that had 63 rounds, half of which were depleted uranium sabot rounds. Im fine, no sickness no nothing.
Quoting from a corrupt UN is not a basis in fact.
12/07/2005 09:31:12 AM
Well, as long as Mr. Anonymous here is healthy, everyone else must be.........
Anonymous said...
a law is a rule of conduct or action prescribed or formally recognized as binding or enforced by a controlling authority
*************************
OK smart guy, find me the "law" that regulates it. And if you quote the "UN" as some form of "controlling authority," then find me anything that subjegates the United States to the will of the UN. You won't be able to.
12/07/2005 08:52:02 AM
My part that you quote was taken out of the dictionary. If you have a problem with the def of "law" then bring it up with Webster's Inc.
I, in no way, claim that the UN is a subjegating power. What I DID say was that the US siged up with these laws.
UN Security Council Veto Power
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
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The veto power is a power wielded solely by the 5 permanent members of the UN security council. It gives them the power to void any Security Council resolution, no matter what the supporting majority. This power is exercised when any permanent member enters a "nay" vote. (An abstention vote will allow the measure to pass).
The US as a permanent and founding Security Council member has the right to veto any meassure brought before the UN. The US has done it many many times. He is a link to a list of messures vetoed.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/
security/membship/
veto/vetosubj.htm
Obviously you did not read the DU article, so I will re-post the LAWS that prohibit DU.
Some of these laws PRE-DATE the U.N.
"
According to a August 2002 report by the UN subcommission, laws which are breached by the use of DU shells include: the Universal Declaration of Human Rights; the Charter of the United Nations; the Genocide Convention; the Convention Against Torture; the four Geneva Conventions of 1949; the Conventional Weapons Convention of 1980; and the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, which expressly forbid employing 'poison or poisoned weapons' and 'arms, projectiles or materials calculated to cause unnecessary suffering'. All of these laws are designed to spare civilians from unwarranted suffering in armed conflicts.
"
Happy now?
Again, DU is an inert substance, less radioactive than standing in an open field on a sunny day. None of these are "poison weapons" as you so liberally label them. Half those "treaties and laws" you list were written when DU wasn't even a known substance. 1899? 1907?? I'm willing to bet the rest don't even list DU as a "poisonous substance" and you are reaching for a talking point just a bit too far.
and another thing. Since we don't deploy them against civilian targets, i'll bet we're in the clear.
My head hurts!!!
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