Sergeants on the Board
From the Comments Section:
- [...] SCC you are a little quick to toss roses and a little slow on the critical side. How about your feelings on having a merit sgt on the FOP Board; what do you really think?
What do we really think? Well, if you read the blog regularly, we've posted about it a few times. The last time was on 06 November in this post. There is precedent for keeping the spot (Kubik). There is precedent for supervisors to be on other boards across the nation (the national president of FOP is a boss, as are a number of the office holders). The only real problem we see is that when combined with the SEVEN retirees, fully one third of the Chicago FOP Board cannot participate in negotiating an active labor contract or issues that affect each and every one of us.
Do we think supervisors should be on the board? There seems a definite conflict, but not a rule violation. As to a merit spot, that would seem to be another conflict all together - what if (putting on our conspiracy cap here) the city offered merit spots to Board members in an effort to influence their votes? Now (taking off our conspiracy cap), a solution? Perhaps limiting the number of retirees on the board? Perhaps giving the sergeant's 2 non voting spots? There are something like 200-250 supervisors who are fraternal members of the FOP, including Phil Cline. Does Phil get a ballot in the mail? How does he vote? If he showed up during the constitution and bylaws voting meeting, and he voted at the meeting, does his vote count? What about retirees? They vote in HUGE numbers and got every single retiree candidate on the Board last year, but they cannot vote on an active labor contract.
The solutions seem many, varied and complicated, but ought to be addressed. Soon. Nine spots that can't do anything for the serving members seems a bit over the top.
Do we think supervisors should be on the board? There seems a definite conflict, but not a rule violation. As to a merit spot, that would seem to be another conflict all together - what if (putting on our conspiracy cap here) the city offered merit spots to Board members in an effort to influence their votes? Now (taking off our conspiracy cap), a solution? Perhaps limiting the number of retirees on the board? Perhaps giving the sergeant's 2 non voting spots? There are something like 200-250 supervisors who are fraternal members of the FOP, including Phil Cline. Does Phil get a ballot in the mail? How does he vote? If he showed up during the constitution and bylaws voting meeting, and he voted at the meeting, does his vote count? What about retirees? They vote in HUGE numbers and got every single retiree candidate on the Board last year, but they cannot vote on an active labor contract.
The solutions seem many, varied and complicated, but ought to be addressed. Soon. Nine spots that can't do anything for the serving members seems a bit over the top.
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
44 Comments:
Yes.. Uncle Phil gets a ballot as do all fraternal members. (Sgts and above) as long as they pay their $50 a year dues.
SCC:
Maybe instead of getting your "interpretation" Of what is a "rule violation" a little research is in order instead of the Party Line via Donahue & CO.
What rule are you referring to?
I will try to cover the most obvious:
FOP ByLaw Article I Section 2e: refers to membership in another labor organization working contrary to the interests of the membership. These sgts are members of the PBPA another labor organization and as you so eloquently state; "a definite conflict of interest" (referring to sgts on the FOP board) hopefully it would not take to much imageation to think of situations where the interests of sgts come in direct conflict with the interests of our bargaining unit (blue shirts vs white shirts)
CPD Rules & Regulations 54B
states supervisors defined as sgt and above cannot be members of a labor organization that represents members of a bargaining unit of subordinates.
The Illinois State FOP Lodge is only a Fraternal Organization they have a separate unit the State of Ill Labor Council for contractual issues, they have their own web site I suggest you read it some time or maybe a link for on that link you can see how successful they are at winning the residency issue COOK COUNTY Employees vs COOK COUNTY. FOP is a unique combination of both a Fraternal and Labor organization in fact ONLY two lodges in all of Illinois have that distinction the Troopers and Lodge 7. The Illinois Labor Board is looking into that situation.
And finally (although there is much more that can be said and in the future I assure you it will)
Your statement: "The solutions seem many"
I propose the SIMPLE solution:
LET THE MEMBERSHIP OF FOP LODGE 7 make the call: Not only simple but doesn't it seem appropriate.
The leadership of this lodge has had the opportunity to propose a Constitution and ByLaw amendment to address this situation ( our own esteemed General Counsel Plene$$ is on record in our newsletter of declaing a person cannot be a member of the sgts and FOP)but they choose not to WHY??
Because they know the membership would say NO!!! Is it not better to have Donahue & Co make the choice for you in fact they are the union are they not?
Because they know the members of the bargaining unit understand (like you) that there is "A DEFINITE CONFLICT OF INTEREST" OF SGTS ON THE BOARD and receiving $5,000.00 dollars yearly stipends of members dues money and yetthese sgts are not able to perform all their duties ie voting or being involved in discussion of contract issues! Maybe sgts at half pay or maybe no pay at all.
Are ther no qualified police officers available in the bargaining unit to be members of the Board? Does a merit sgt offer more to the membership? Can you serve two masters?
You question why there are not more members at the meetings, well if you speak out against the Ruling party you can become.......
wharej603 (currently one of two expelled members in the history of FOP).
Wayne,
The only actual conflict is the one between the two sets of rules. There is absolutely nothing in the National FOP Charter that says bosses cannot be members of an FOP Lodge - as evidenced by our National President being a boss.
Rule 54B (City regulation) is in conflict with the national charter, as is Bylaw I-2e. If pushed, the sergeants and above who are FRATERNAL members, not BARGAINING members would win in a court of law and the National Charter would take predecence.
We don't parrot the party line. We recognize the rules in place at this very moment. The rules are what they are - you don't like them, work to change them, or standardize them across the nation.
The city rules as the FOP rules, are nothing but double talk.
Everything with the city as well as the FOP says you can if you can but only when it says you cant can you if you dont care to. But then if you dont care to you can and therefore the I's have it.
Only active Police Officers should be able to vote. Sorry retire's, no discrespect. However, a viable FOP Presidential candidate would get my vote for stating, this law will go if Im voted in. But we have no such person so who gives a flyin fuck. C'mon federal goverment....where are you???
obviously the last posting was from a civilian and not the police....so get off this site wannabe
Why should we help the retired guys with health care? Have them work to 63 like everybody else. Or they can get another job if they leave this job prior to 63. Welcome to the world of the regular joe. Maybe you should have taken care of yourself during those years. Too much smoking and drinking.
FUCK YOU!!!
33 yoa P.O.
obviously the last posting was from a civilian and not the police....so get off this site wannabe
Truth hurts huh marky boy
2/15/2006 07:49:12 AM
You are a JACK-ASS!! What about the retirees who may have retired 20 yrs ago and are getting a small pension? Don't they deserve to be taken care of? If you even are the police, you sound like the ass-wipe who checks the PDT for pending jobs, so you can lay down on some other B.S. to avoid working. It's people like you who are an embarrassment to this job. We NEED to look out for the retirees-we'll all be there someday. Look out for each other & stay safe!
I am a sergeant and a fraternal member of the FOP. I changed my status from bargaining unit member to fraternal member when I was promoted. Remember, the FOP as a national organization is a fraternal group, whereas here in Chicago, it's a bargaining unit.
I've been FOP since I was in the academy and didn't want to lose my membership when I was promoted. I do not, nor should I, have any input on bargaining issues. I also believe that should a member of the FOP board be promoted, it would be the honorable thing for him/her to resign their position, and convert their FOP membership to fraternal status.
As the rules stand now a board member who is promoted cannot be compelled to resign, but at least they cannot be reelected.
Health care for retired guys? There are always jobs at Walmart and Target for the old goobers if they need benefits. Just cause they not 63 why should I pay their way. If you retired from this job in good health at 55, then you should keep working. If your not happy retired living up here, move to Vegas or Florida with the rest of the worn out trash.
10:39:16......What a piece of work you are.....I only wish you the best in life.....cause with your attitude someone will(has) knocked you on your butt a few times. Hope you never get sick or injured.
Bravo, Bravo!
To: 2/15/2006 10:39:16 AM
When I came on this job my fellow recruits and I were promised free health ins., life ins. and retiree benefits that included health ins.
What were your promised when you were hired?
By the way, Kubik is not meritorious...
2/15/2006 07:49:12 AM SAID
Why should we help the retired guys with health care? Have them work to 63 like everybody else. Or they can get another job if they leave this job prior to 63. Welcome to the world of the regular joe. Maybe you should have taken care of yourself during those years. Too much smoking and drinking.
-----------------------------------
I hope that everyone can see that the above post comes from a person who is not the police, never will be the police and, God forbid, does wear the uniform, still will NEVER be the police.
SCC:
We can debate the loopholes forever but..
You fail to comment on the sugestion for the simple solution:
Let the membership decide!!!
A dangerous suggestion maybe a little to radical?
Maybe the essence of a union run by the membership and not Donahue & Crew.
You can bet that if the two promoted sgts were from the opposing slate they would be gone in a heartbeat any doubts?
But back to the simple solution What say you?
wharej603
WHy doesn't the men & women in patrol get to choose who represents them?..Instead of FOP- could we get the TEAMSTERS?
Do you really believe the membership would vote two sgts on the board of directors and a merit sgt to boot
I sir am the goof who asked who owns the F.O.P. Building.
Please understand, I know who SHOULD own it, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHO HAS THE BENEFICIAL INTEREST IN THE TRUSTS WHICH APPARENTLY HOLD TITLE TO THE PROPERTY.
Until the terms of the trusts are revealed, it is possible that the former owners still own part of the building, or an option to buy the building back.
Also conerning the mortgage from 2002, it was only recorded against one of the apparently three parcels that the building is on.
Why is that?
Why would a lender record against only part of the property.
But simply I would like to know what the money was used for.
Does anyone who was on the board at the time of the purchase remember if the identity of the "SELLERS" was revealed?
Cause quite honestly, I heard that a currently retired copper who is very involved in the management of the store was a former owner.
Sorry if you think I am a goof for asking.
But I would kind of like to know.
2/11/2006 03:34:23 PM
When the PBPA was considering challenging the FOP for representation of the rank and File the last time Nolan ran for pres,The question of ownership was discussed and the FOP is the owner of the building and if they were decertified as the exclusive bargaining agent of the rank and file the building would still remain in the hands of FOP. The membership does not have an equity interest in the property, our dues finance it but that is all. As far as who were the owners who sold the building to FOP you can bet if there was any connection to certain fop people it was well hidden. The ironic twist to this paying off the mortgage is months before the Treasurer was pleading for a dues increase over and above the normal $.50 every year for every year and in fact a special $1.00 increase in your dues was passed but we go from gloom and doom of financial collapse to paying off a mortage and they never said they needed the increase to pay off the building in fact they said the elevator was about to crash and immediate repairs were necessary but lo and behold the elevator "cured itself".
We had a chance to get the Teamsters 10 years ago, but it didn't happen.
Phil Cline resigned his fraternal membership with the FOP several months ago.
We had a chance to get the Teamsters 10 years ago, but it didn't happen.
2/15/2006 05:45:11 PM
No the outfit had a chance to get us and we were smart enough to see thru the crap. Coppers are still smarter than most.
The Sgt's on the board should do the right thing and step down. Last I checked the FOP represents PATROLMAN not SGTS! They have their own representation. If they were part of or represented by the FOP, then I would have no problem with a Sgt, Lt., or a Capt. on the board
i have been paying into the pension for a number of years now and i have 1 major concern.............................they better not fuck me..............consequences!
Wayne, you're not even a member of FOP, so please stick your nose in someone elses business. Leave us out of your plots to have your revenge on two of the people who expelled you.
The retirees on the board (Waynes friends) are not members of the bargaining unit either.. SHouldnt THEY step down too?
scc:
Your response suggesting "the only actual conflict" reference the National charter is misguided:
Please refer to Lodge 7 Constitution Art III A Sec 1:
"Only active members BELOW THE RANK OF SGT... may be candidates for officer in this Lodge" argue with the printed word if you must.
Lodge 7's own By-Laws are in "actual conflict" with the National;
It has nothing to do with the fact that "I don't like them" If the leadership of this lodge wants to change sgt's on the board then go to the MEMBERSHIP.
If a member (sgt) can not be a candidate for the board why should he remain after promoted.
One Reason $5,000.00 a year to quote one trustee "the best second job I ever had"!
Your statement "if pushed, the sgts would win in a court of law and the National Charter would take predecence (sic) over a Rule and Regulation of the Chicago Police Department illustrates that you have nothing to fear from Socrates statement
"kill all the lawyers" because you are not even close!!
You must have earned your JD at Mark University for Dictatorships.
i do however enjoy the discourse with whoever you pretend to be..... RJ
TO THE JACKASS THAT COMMENTED: Anonymous said...
Wayne, you're not even a member of FOP, so please stick your nose in someone elses business. Leave us out of your plots to have your revenge on two of the people who expelled you. 2/15/2006 08:25:12 PM
Whoever you are, you are a first-rate Jackass!
You should have a quarter amount of class, integrity, and honesty, that Wayne possesses. He was sandbagged and expelled as a member because he was telling the truth and the truth hurts Donahue. What Donahue did to Wayne was a ruthless attempt to keep Wayne from exposing the current administration for what it really is! Power hungry, do nothing, greedy lying hyporcrites who are corrupt.
If you don't play by Donahue's rules or kiss his ass, you'll be out too. Donahue may think he won the battle by expelling Wayne and trying to expel Hallihan after he ran against him during the past election.
So hears another NEWSFLASH, Donahue will lose the war and it won't be Wayne.
AND TO: Anonymous said...
Wayne, you're not even a member of FOP, so please stick your nose in someone elses business. Leave us out of your plots to have your revenge on two of the people who expelled you.
GO FUCK YOURSELF! YOU ARE A POOR EXCUSE AS A COP AND HUMAN BEING. THIS COMMENT IS NOT FROM WAYNE EITHER!!!!
who is wayne?
The FOP building was owned by the Plumber's Union - that's why its called "Plumber's Hall." Now wasn't that simple. The Trust documents are on file in the Recorder's Office - you just have to take the time to go there and pull them.
Anonymous said...
who is wayne?
2/15/2006 10:50:39 PM
You know who he is. No need to play friggin stupid here!
The FOP building was owned by the Plumber's Union - that's why its called "Plumber's Hall." Now wasn't that simple. The Trust documents are on file in the Recorder's Office - you just have to take the time to go there and pull them.
***********************************
O.K. its simple....
Please provide the Document Numbers of the "Recorded" documents....
And just because a building is "Named" Plumbers hall, does not mean they own it....
Sears Tower was sold several years ago, whats it called today?
The John Hancock Building was never owned by the John Hancock Life Insurance Company, they demanded the naming rights when they provided the financing after the first builder went bankrupt....
U.S. Cellular....
United Center....
Wrigley Field....
Who owns those?
Its not simple....
But I think its a good idea to ask....
Sorry if it bothers you....
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
who is wayne?
2/15/2006 10:50:39 PM
You know who he is. No need to play friggin stupid here!
2/16/2006 10:01:16 AM
HEY DICKBALLS...if I knew who the fuck Wayne was, I wouldn't ask! So go fuck yourself!
Now, can anyone else tell me who the fuck Wayne is? thanks
SCC:
Why cant we as a fraternal organization set up an annuity for the future retirees to cover medical and perscribtion costs for future retirees. Each member should contribute a percentage of pay to gaurentee medical benefits in the future. I scream at the young guys who hate the retirees. I have twenty two years and hope and have to do ten more until my last one is out of school. I cannot get over how some of our retirees left the job so financially insecure. I see other departments with supplemental medical benefits, we should consider the same. The city runs the medical coverage for us, making a profit between six and eight million. As an old guy on the job I could see being excluded. I think any one coming on the job should have an option to contribute into some future benefit, even though I dont want the city controlling it. Our Union sells us out, we should not be shut out, but the rules discriminate against the family cop with the kids and side job. I make only four union mettings a year(the scholarship drawing always won by a FOP trustee, the picnic and the golf outing) The lodge is not user friendly but a click of malcontents led by the Publicity hound who is never around to defend the working police.(out of sight and mind when a brother is in trouble)
Any member in good standing should have the opportunity to run for office, and I wish the young lads would use there private sector experience and education to shake the tree over at the FOP.
Respectfully;
Doctor Doom
TO: HEY DICKBALLS...if I knew who the fuck Wayne was, I wouldn't ask! So go fuck yourself!
Evidentally, you don't comprehend what you read, otherwise, if you did, you would see Wayne's first and last time posted on the blog. So, who is DICKBALLS now? Not me, JACKASS!!!! gO HAVE A DRINK AND CHILL OUT....
Wayne Harej and Sean Hallinan were dispelled from FOP for going to the media during the last FOP campaign. They are going to sue now. They spoke the truth. I guess the members of the Board did not like their truth. They discussed how the FOP filed erroneous reports with the Attorney General. Welcome to the woderful world of politics.
4:52....thank you for answering my simple question. I did not know what the fuck this Wayne shit was all about.
4:40.....go fuck yourself! Not everyone reads every goddamn thing on this blog. However, I wouldn't have asked the question "who is Wayne" if it was in the text of this string.
I will take your advice though, have a drink and chill out. If we should ever meet in person, I'll buy you a drink too. Then both of us can chill out.
I will take your advice though, have a drink and chill out. If we should ever meet in person, I'll buy you a drink too. Then both of us can chill out.
2/17/2006 05:17:22 PM
It's a date!!! You have to take back the F.U. first! :)
OK, unfuck yourself. Instead, I'll go fuck myself!!
Thank you....
FOR: 04:52:24
Glad to hear the news about them taking a stand and suing the hell out of FOP. Who does Donahue think he is? Hitler or Hussain? Unfortunately, FOP is in for a lot worse. More to come about it later. Way to go, Wayne and Sean.
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