Investigate This
Since the media is regularly trolling for scandals on the blog, both real and imagined, we thought we'd share a little tidbit about the coroner. Let's see if an aspiring investigative reporter can come up with something. Even though we've managed to put two and two together, we highly doubt the media will get to four.
On 03 November, we received the following letter from a south side officer:
On 03 November, we received the following letter from a south side officer:
- Hey scc, I was on the scene of a "death investigation" where a junkie overdosed and the dicks were asking witnesses about when someone last saw him for a time of death estimate. My PPO asked if the ME could come up with closer time of death when they did a body temperature on the deceased. The detectives laughed and told the kid he watched too much Law & Order. When the person from the ME's office showed up and the kid asked him the same question, the guy just smiled and shook his head. You think the ME is taking shortcuts on these "death investigations"?
Personally, we think the ME's office is full of incompetent political hacks who wouldn't recognize a dead body if it bit them on the ass given their pronouncements of odd causes of death even when the dead body has double, triple and higher fatal concentrations of narcotics in their systems. But this letter rang a bell in our minds so we looked around a bit. On 10 October 07 in the Sun Times, the following paragraphs were published regarding the death of a Chicago Marathon participant:
-
The doctor who performed an autopsy on the Michigan police officer who died during the Chicago Marathon said Tuesday she's certain heat had nothing do with Chad Schieber's death.
"He didn't have a documented elevated body temperature," said the Cook County medical examiner's office staffer, who asked not to be named. "That's very important when you're going to put 'heat stress' on a death certificate."
"He didn't have a documented elevated body temperature" from an anonymous staffer. We aren't lawyers, but we can smell bullshit from miles away. Maybe the reason the dead marathoner (and Michigan cop) didn't have a "documented elevated body temperature" is because nobody bothered to check it? That sure would go a long way to explain why the ME's office was so eager to blame the death on a heart condition rather than the heat that sent a few hundred other runners to the hospital. Can't embarrass LaSalle Bank or the mayor during the run up to the Olympics, gosh darn it, even though TWO cardiologists disputed the findings of the ME.
Evidently, it's an open secret among the Detective Division that their best bet for narrowing down the time of death is eyewitnesses who may have seen the deceased rather than the ME's office who can't be troubled to actually, you know, follow accepted procedure in documenting what ought to go on a legal document (i.e. a death certificate). Just toss that body on a tray, load it into the cooler and we'll get to the autopsy Monday morning if everyone shows up. Remember, they've got bodies in there from almost two years ago. One more shortcut shouldn't matter.
Evidently, it's an open secret among the Detective Division that their best bet for narrowing down the time of death is eyewitnesses who may have seen the deceased rather than the ME's office who can't be troubled to actually, you know, follow accepted procedure in documenting what ought to go on a legal document (i.e. a death certificate). Just toss that body on a tray, load it into the cooler and we'll get to the autopsy Monday morning if everyone shows up. Remember, they've got bodies in there from almost two years ago. One more shortcut shouldn't matter.
Labels: county
posted by SCC at 1:03 AM
39 Comments:
Cook County Medical Examiners are probably the most incompetent in the Unites States.
Had a death investigation once. Probably the second in 200 where the ME actually showed up. The dead guy was coming out of rigor mortis. Asked the ME when he probably died? ME said sometime between when he was last seen alive until he was found dead. ( A span of 16 hrs) My kid could have told me that. He came to the scene and basically looked at him and said, "Yep, he dead." Nothing else. What a joke.
I know that Quincy and CSI are on one end of the spectrum when it comes to death investigations. Crook Co is totally on the other end. No middle ground.
But if I ever need to kill someone and get awat with it then I guess that is to my advantage.
Not sure about all that, i've seen the rep from the M.E.'s office take a liver temp numerous times on the scene of a death investigation. hhmmmm
Cook County ME is a political office definately but elevated body temperature would be noted by the paramedics when they arrived on scene.
Also, it looks like SIESER is moving ever closer to City Hall and I doubt this coup will be bloodless.
Who better personifies the integrity of the Office of the Medical Examiner than their "chief investigator"--LEROY MARTIN.
I've never seen an ME take a body temperature at the scene.
I miss Quincy.
Loved the coctails on the boat stuff.
My guess: the body temp referred to was when the victim was being treated in the emergency room.
You are correct though. Trying too get the M.E. to give an APPROXIMATE time of death has not been done, at least I have not seen it as a detective.
SEISER for M.E.
Were now a 3rd rate force(Police,M.E.,etc..) in a 4th rate city.
The thing that saved us in the past
was a 1st rate detective division.
Thanks to merit,thats gone. You whores that destroyed it,rot in hell!!
Maybe the feds will have answers on the Todster's hacks posing as ME investigators.
"...Since last summer, we know the government has either raided or subpoenaed documents from the the medical examiner's office, ...."
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20070314/ai_n18715418
Tell that to the family of Drew Peterson's 3rd wife and the 4th wife if they find her... and they will eventually. Also, they could ask Craig Stebic.
Just saying....
Thank god the majority of murders are banger shooting banger . If the homicide clear up rate is 40 percent, the gang shooting must be 95 percent of that number. And any idiot detective should be any to solve these simple, not complicated murders......oh I guess not...the overall clear up rate is 40 percent!
Should I even bring up the burglary clear up rate....below 15 percent.
Do not slam this message because you will have to ask yourself if this is a lie!
How is anyone suprised by this...?
I mean really, isn't the exception to the rule in Cook County, when you actually find somebody who IS competent?
Pick up any reputable book on Crime Scene Investigation and everyone of them will tell you there is no one way method of determining time of death. Body temp is just one piece of the puzzle along with rigor mortis, livor mortis and decomp. The ONLY foolproof reliable means to determine time of death is an EYEWITNESS. Guys and gals don't fall into this CSI bullshit..
Another method of determing time of death is fly larvae (maggots), but guess what, neither the crime lab of the morgue collect them to have it analyzed, and studies at the National Forensic Academy and other well known entomolgist have shown than this is a much more accurate method of determining time of death, but guess what folks, this stuff costs money.
Anytime time frame a ME Investigator ( yeah they are for the most part untrained political hacks) is just a best guestimate.
"Personally, we think the ME's office is full of incompetent political hacks who wouldn't recognize a dead body if it bit them on the ass . . "
**************************
You just figured that out?????
Thank god the majority of murders are banger shooting banger . If the homicide clear up rate is 40 percent, the gang shooting must be 95 percent of that number. And any idiot detective should be any to solve these simple, not complicated murders......oh I guess not...the overall clear up rate is 40 percent!
Should I even bring up the burglary clear up rate....below 15 percent.
Do not slam this message because you will have to ask yourself if this is a lie!
Nobody said it wasn't easy to solve these cases, it's getting them charged that is the problem, nobody wants to talk, and if they do they won't go on the record and go to the Grand Jury, or if they do they then disappear, either out of fear or because they were paid off, they recant there testimony and then say the detectives coerced them, even though it's all on video. If they do have a solid case, Felony Review tries to find a reason to C/I the case wanting more evidence or witnesses or it is rejected, and God forbid if it is one on one, it will almost always be mutual combatants or self defense. It is a no win situation in violent. Burglary is another story, without physical evidence or an eyewitness it is even tougher, plus the department has shown that they don't care about property crime anymore. The detective job has gone down the tubes like the rest of the department, the only redeeming quality is all the freedom you get and the two hour lunches, yes two hours....
CSI Crook County said...
Tell that to the family of Drew Peterson's 3rd wife and the 4th wife if they find her... and they will eventually. Also, they could ask Craig Stebic.
Just saying....
11/06/2007 09:03:00 AM
**********
Wrong county Sherlock.
Couple of years ago pulled a decomposed body out of the river,waited 2 hours on a hot summer day for the M.E. She showed up took one whiff got back in her car and handed me her polaroid to take a picture, never got within 100 feet of the body.Pronounced it dead while sitting in her car talking on her cell phone.
Every office of the County is a joke.
Quincy and CSI (and Hawaii 50) are on one end of the spectrum when it comes to death investigations. Yea, the fictional one. Determining time of death is an art, not a science. Take a course on forensics before you stick your foot in your mouth, again.
Anonymous said...
Not sure about all that, i've seen the rep from the M.E.'s office take a liver temp numerous times on the scene of a death investigation. hhmmmm
11/06/2007 02:22:00 AM
Was there bacon and onions with that liver?
While making the notification to the
ME's office I have been asked by the investigator, "does she look dead to you?"
The guy didn't even give me a cut of his pay.
Jeez, you guys have never even seen an ME take the tempurature of a body at the scene?
In 25 years I have never seen an ME even show up at a scene. That's never, as in not at all, not homicides, not suicides, not accidents, not in 1995 with the 700 plus heat deaths, NEVER.
An ME on the scene? In Chicago? In Cook County? Hah! you've been watching too much Quincy and CSI. It just doesn't happen here.
And those autopsies? Does the real world know that many of them are at least started and at most completed by civilian morgue attendants without an MD? Almost every morgue attendant down there, if they want to, gets schooled in the big Y incision and can open up a body and get it all ready in nothing flat. It seems to me they like doing it.
Do people really think that MD's do those autopsies? No way, not in Cook County.
I know a hunter that shot a Deer after legal shooting time. A Game warden took the temperature of the deer at the check station and surmised that the deer had been dead for an amount of time that made it after legal shooting hours, then issued a $150.00 ticket to the hunter. They can do it to a woodland animal, why not to an O.D.'ed animal.
Aside from observations prior to the onset of full rigor mortis, putrefication with maggots and blowflies, I would strongly recommend that on all suspicious inside deaths, first responders should be provided with two thermometers. After recording a stable ambient temperature of the room, the officer will promptly use a rectal thermometer on the cadaver for extrapolation and analysis to determine the actual time of death.
Latex gloves are optional.
Any questions, officers?
AWWW...did I hurt your pathetic little feelings SCC by dogging out your litle blog??? Is that why you didnt show my post calling out all your loser cronies? Are you mad I called it like I saw it and pointed out the obvious??? you can keep this bull shit blog and the losers who read it. im done
believe it or not, I know of a highly qualified person whe tried to apply for the job at the ME's office. The staff would not even tell the person how to apply, then another lady came by the desk, listened to the request, and told the applicant "your too qualified, they would eat you up here"
Great, no wonder we can not get more qualified people, Stroger and his cronies have packed that place too.
Buh bye now. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.
FYI
for the ME and anyone else who cares.
Rectal Temperature of the Cadaver
Time in Hours to the Indicated Rectal Temp.
Temp...Min...Max hrs
93.....2......6
90.....3......9
86.....4......12
82.....6......15
79.....9......20
75.....12.....24
72.....18.....30
This table shows that accuracy in pinpointing time of death decreases as the body's core temperature decreases. Obviously, a span of 18 to 32 hours will be of little help to an investigator. (Wilber, 38). Fortunately, there are other methods to rely on, such as postmortem lividity.
Works Cited:
Baden, Michael M., M.D., and Hennessee, Judith Adler Unnatural Death. New York: Random House, 1989
Hendrix, Robert C., M.D. Investigation of Violent and Sudden Death, A Manual For Medical Examiners. Springfield, Illinois: Charles C. Thomas, 1972
O'Hara, Charles E. And O'Hara, Gregory L. Fundamentals of Criminal Investigation, Sixth Edition. Springfield, Illinois: Charles C. Thomas, 1994
Wilber, Charles G, Ph.D. Forensic Biology for the Law Enforcement Officer. Springfield, Illinois: Charles C. Thomas, 1974
http://www.studyworld.com/basementpapers/papers/stack12_14.html
oops sounds like a can of worms is just been opened?
when you google "cook county coroner errors" a boatload come up, but most appalling was the ME who had the hgt, wgt, hair colr, clothing wrong on the DOA and even the fact that he saw puncture wounds in an arm where no one else did. They were all looking at the same body! Detectives told mother how to file suit.
looking for a nice quiet place to take a break on the west side in the middle of the night? drop by 2121 harrison, especially when they turn off the lights and the 'investigators' are sleeping. they hardly even notice you're there.
The problem is that investigator Poole from the Cook County ME's Office was fired for driving without a license. Due to budget cuts in the county and other unforseeable issues plaguing the Toddler, only one thermometer was available to investigators. Inv. Poole was the only one who had this equipment available to him.Now compound this and the fact that he hasn't had a drivers license for years, we will never benefit from this technology. In a statement made by Mr Poole's attorney "the current state of the finances at the CTA will make it impossible for my client to utilize public transportation to respond to any death investigations". In an independent statement given by Mr. Poole " I would have come to work, but they cut my bus route and it's way too far to walk" Mr Poole has since ordered 4 turkey thermometers from Bed Bath and Beyond. The Cook County ME's office hopes to have them early 2009. It's coming ladies and gentlemen, a solution to the problem.
Anonymous said...
Thank god the majority of murders are banger shooting banger . If the homicide clear up rate is 40 percent, the gang shooting must be 95 percent of that number. And any idiot detective should be any to solve these simple, not complicated murders......oh I guess not...the overall clear up rate is 40 percent!
Should I even bring up the burglary clear up rate....below 15 percent.
Do not slam this message because you will have to ask yourself if this is a lie!
Nobody said it wasn't easy to solve these cases, it's getting them charged that is the problem, nobody wants to talk, and if they do they won't go on the record and go to the Grand Jury, or if they do they then disappear, either out of fear or because they were paid off, they recant there testimony and then say the detectives coerced them, even though it's all on video. If they do have a solid case, Felony Review tries to find a reason to C/I the case wanting more evidence or witnesses or it is rejected, and God forbid if it is one on one, it will almost always be mutual combatants or self defense. It is a no win situation in violent. Burglary is another story, without physical evidence or an eyewitness it is even tougher, plus the department has shown that they don't care about property crime anymore. The detective job has gone down the tubes like the rest of the department, the only redeeming quality is all the freedom you get and the two hour lunches, yes two hours....
11/06/2007 11:49:00 AM
-----------------------------------
Two hour lunches? You need more handouts.
"(Chad Schieber) didn't have a documented elevated body temperature. That's very important when you're going to put 'heat stress' on a death certicate."
(EMPHASIS ADDED)
"NO SPIN" TRANSLATION: Since we have no documentation (we never would) on Mr. Schieber's body temperature at death or shortly thereafter, (the powers that be) opted for the only remaining possibility, however remote--mitral valve prolapse (MVP). Schieber's marathon death had international news coverage. Certainly, we wouldn't want the International Olympic Committee to get the impression that any inaction and gross incompetence by the City of Chicago in scorching temperatures and humidity caused his death.
Therefore, it was decided to use MVP as the cause of death and deflect the blame on Niles paramedics.
Mayor Daley wants Chicago to host the 2016 Olympic games.
Fuck the impartial outside cardiologist naysayers. Let them exhume Schieber's remains and take his body temperature. If it's higher than 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit, we may change the cause of death to "heat stress".
The Department is just about to issue to all beat cars a 12" thermomator so youse guys can stick it up the dead guys ass and get his temp.
Butt, be careful, remember those NYPD guys who were trying to figure out the ailing mans temp with a night stick. Doose gkuys were just confused.
If you stick it up a deers ass you will have PETA all over your ass.
once observered SISER THE MOST AWESOME walk into offices of the ACLU and after 3 minutes of His August presense they burned all of thrir left leanung files and attacked each other with sharpened pencils this MAN is a GOD
read a book called "The Aftermath" by Gil Reavill
To all you CSI wannabes: No medical examiner in the right mind would ever pinpoint time of death. There way too many variables involved. The best they can do is a time frame (in hours or days). So to the PPO with the college degree: Tell Mommy not to allow you to watch anymore cops and robbers shows, DUMBASS!
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