Pension Disaster Looms
We covered this a few weeks ago (months ago?) with retired Captain Chomiak's letter that we published in full. Now suddenly, the mayor is appointing a blue ribbon panel to explore ways to adequately fund public pensions:
Mayor Daley on Friday created a commission drawn from labor, business and banking to confront a problem that threatens to choke future generations of Chicago taxpayers: underfunded city pension funds.
The comprehensive solution Daley is seeking within 18 months could include everything from benefit reductions and increased employee contributions to a shift away from "defined benefit" pension plans and toward the "defined contributions" or 401-K plans favored by private industry.
Of course, controversy reigns:
- Fraternal Order of Police President Mark Donahue questioned why the city's two largest unions -- police and fire -- were not represented on the 32-member commission.
And the sad state of affairs is laid out:
- At the end of 2006, the firefighters pension fund had assets on hand to meet just 40 percent of its liabilities. The ratio was 49 percent for police, 67 percent for municipal employees and 92 percent for laborers.
Pay attention people. This panel is going to meet for 18 months and in mid-2009 is when we'll see what completely unacceptable result is to be forced down everyone's throat. Or up their asses. But here's the first clue to pension funding - don't delay paying what is owed to fund BS social programs. You never ever catch up.
Labels: pension
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
112 Comments:
Guess Lester Crown needs to do something to take his mind off of giving Barak Husein Obama the exclusive use of his Jet and Pilots. He is even picking up the tab for all the fuel.
Since his family owns so much maybe his lead will help out our pension fund. Hopefully your blue ribbon committee is our pension funds redemption.
Why hasnt the city taken over the fountain at Millinuem Park? I understand the city doesnt want the maintanence tab of about 100K a year.
401k- Frontline did a program about it. 401k dont work in the long run and is cheaper for the employer. Frontline also had the man who started the 401k in the early 80's, over 25years of 401k history analysis and "he" does not recommend it. The pension is one advantage for being a government employee. You make a bit less then private industry and you have a pension. Of course if you have a high paying city job then who cares. Or I can just put up to 12k in my deffered, 30k into my mortgage, 12k for childrens education and the rest for fun???? Maybe I should work 30 more hours + 48 for the city a week and shut my big mouth, what do I know? I HOPE WE DON'T LOOSE THIS ONE.
The younger PO's don't care about this. They just want ten hour days and an end to the residency requirement.
Meanwhile, in the background, Daley is putting everything in motion to end pensions for city employees.
Oh sure, they'll administer a 401k plan, like most private industry, but that's it.
Wake up people!!
We are Fuked!! The city wont help us but they still raise our taxes!!! Thanks do nothing FOP! This job and this city SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It will only get worse.
donahue also suggested that we will have to make larger contibutions from our paychecks so lets see we get a 3.5% pay increase and our pension contribution goes from 9.5% to 12% leaving us with a 1% pay increase sounds like fop math
ps Remember when donahue forgave the city the 23.8 million dollar loan against the advice of our pension representatives of course that was before donahue annointed robbins as our pension guy and he ok'd daley's cousin getting pension money
where does it stop at least the rep from the sgt's group voted no to daley's cousin but not FOP
I heard one of the plans being looked at to supplement our pension is having us selling candy door to door and M&M's at intersections. really..
That thieving prick can fund those pensions today; he's got well over a billion in city assets that he's leased off.................
In the crash of 1929 most woke up one morning to find all was lost. History will repeat itself. Then what do we do-Cry?Time to get rid of FOP and demand what is ours from City HAll. But we are SHEEP!!
this has been a problem for quite some time.......why is it at the forefront now, while we are in the middle of contract negotiations ?
tomorrow's headline :
"FREE RIDES FOR SENIORS/REDUCED BENIFITS FOR POLICE AND FIRE"
they are giving away to special intrest groups what we have earned and payed for !
Get rid of the gold braid parachute. Pension for career service rank of LT. only.
How more exempts do we have compared to only 10 years ago?
Once again clout and corruption reign supreme.
Just something Questions?
Why now do we worry? Where was the concern last election? When we decided not to take an active role in the Political arena and make some waves. Im not talking about just voting ourselves,but getting others out to vote and in our interest.( 30% turnout )
Where was the pressure on OUR Legislative Voice in the City and Springfield? When the Mayor Leased the Skyway and none of the funds were injected into the Pension sytems.
Where was our voice on the Midway Lease deal? Did you Know there is a Midway Lease deal?
Where IS the outcry today about the "CASH COW" TIF program and the almost $800 million that sit in it at the exclusive use of by the Mayor and City Council. As both City employees and Citizens we should be outraged. Tens of Millions of Tax dollars wasted on Planters that now do not let Emergency Vechicles use the center lanes. Among other insane uses.
Where is everybody at the Union Meetings? Both Police and Fire, when we have been in contract talks.Not just todays,but yesterdays.
This just didnt happen on Friday, this has been in the works since at least May 2006 when Dana Levison,the then Mayors Budget Guru, spoke at the City Club of Chicago highlighting these exact points.That was a 30 minute speech on just one topic with Corporate bigwigs and Political Hacks in the audience.
We are all to blame. Both Police and Fire Unions. We became content and that my friends has been our downfall. We cared more about our postion and status than about the bigger picture.
Today the Bigger picture is here and yet we will continue to be outraged, things will be said both here and at work and then tommorrow....the same.
This blogspot has an opportunity to become a post of Ideas, Meeting times, Legislative iniatives,Legislative status and yet tommorrow...the same.
One last question...
What will you do Tommorrow?
I'm a civilian, and I had my retirement invested in something like a 401k. One advantage you might want to think about is that the money is held by a private company that is required by federal law to manage the money in the best interests of the investors. If a private investment fund diverted half its investors' money for something else, the fund managers would be going to prison.
Actually, many private investment plans allow you to invest your money in dozens of independent investment funds, all following different strategies. If you don't like the way a fund is handling your money, you can move all your money to another fund in about 10 minutes.
For the first few years, your employer is allowed to take some of their money back if you quit, but they can never take money you contribute, and once you're fully vested (a contract issue), they can't even get back the money they contributed. The only way they can get the money back then is if your fund invests in municple bonds.
I have to ask why did the FOP forgive the city and dickhead Daley the $20 million owed to the union a couple of years back?
Do not let your sons or daughters become Chicago Police officers, sway any young person looking into this job away from it. The city, Polititions and civilians are going to destroy us.
The battle is already lost and it's too late to think the government will solve this one in our favor.
Now it's just a matter of deciding not if the pension benefits will be cut but how much. The city will get it's message out through the media about how "tough sacrifices need be made by the Police and Fire Unions to ensure the future financial health of Our Fair City, blah, blah, blah" before our FOP leadership can open it's collective mouth. Our "allies" in Springfield won't do us any favors on this one.
Who really thought that we could get away with having such a low asset to liablity ratio and NOT have any future problems? Everyone seems to think this happened overnight, but it's been in the works for decades...
We brought this mess upon ourselves by not paying attention to the details and believing we could get something for nothing (i.e., the "80% pension after 29 years and a day"). The FOP membership should have pushed for increased city AND employee pension contributions years ago, but no one wanted to hear it in the 15 years I've been here. The one thing we thought they couldn't take away from us WILL BE TAKEN AWAY.
Unless we ALL mobilize and get involved now, someone without our best interests in mind will make the final decisions for us.
ARE YOU LISTENING FOP???
Blue Ribbon Panel???? R U Fk'ng kidding me???? We don't need a blue ribbon panel, we need someone who'll stop the ma'er from giving pension moneies to his family members for B.S. investments.
Where did the Skyway $$$$$ go??
Keep writing those parkers and movers for the city you fools.
Richie needs our pension funds to support his hired trucks and his Olympic glory.
We had the FOP clowns come out to speak at our rollcall. I’ll stop referring to “FLOP” as clowns for the rest of this rant because I don’t want to insult Bozo.
"FLOP" was telling us what good job they were doing for us and our pension. When they were asked about our extremely under funded pension and if the monies owed to us would even be there upon our retirement, the asshats only answer were "Its guaranteed."
Take a look at this article and one can see nothing is guaranteed especially in these times and in Illinois. ://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_24/b3937081.htm
Wake up "FLOP" and make the city pay its share. Disclose how many police are actually employed. We all know it is not 10,000. The public would outraged if they knew how few policemen were actually patrolling the streets.
The public outcry would make the city hire more police. Without people paying into the pension fund the fund will be exhausted. Don't give away the pension in this contact for any reason.
You have already given away most of our medical benefits. Don't give our pension away.
The only benefits in taking a civil servant job are good health insurance and a pension. We only have our pension left.
Vote those clowns out of our FOP.
Dam, I almost finished without insulting our beloved Bozo.
Sorry Bozo.
Anonymous said...
donahue also suggested that we will have to make larger contibutions from our paychecks so lets see we get a 3.5% pay increase and our pension contribution goes from 9.5% to 12% leaving us with a 1% pay increase sounds like fop math
ps Remember when donahue forgave the city the 23.8 million dollar loan against the advice of our pension representatives of course that was before donahue annointed robbins as our pension guy and he ok'd daley's cousin getting pension money
where does it stop at least the rep from the sgt's group voted no to daley's cousin but not FOP
1/14/2008 04:30:00 AM
donohue is in bed with the city and will give away everything! WTF! Now we could lose pension great job FLOP! Mark get on the front page of the papers speak out please!
Lose our pensions, lose your officers. Just about every city and suburb in the country will take a Chicago Cop. Fix the problem or the city will have to make TMA's the new police. Besides, a lateral move to Vegas or Phoenix sounds great right about now.
(OT) Why is that detective wearing his star so everyone could see endorsing a SA candidate? Guess Detective "G" must be getting paid! I thought you could not represent cpd in political commercials! Maybe though with his huge "clout" he can do wahtever he wants!
Sure, Donahue suggests we make larger contributions. At his salary, he can afford it. I have a suggestion, Mark. Why don't you donate the last three years of your salary to the pension fund? Sounds good to me, since you are so over paid..
92 percent for laborers. We need their union.....
A good place to start is abolishing "Exempts" super pensions. Their pension should be based on their actual rank, not their POLITICAL rank!
Thats what happens when the guy running the show can be indicted any day. And there is nothing you can do about it. We need someone to organize us.
www.retireonyourownterms.org
Check this one out
http://www.crimefilenews.com/2007/11/residency-requirement-puts-chicago-cops.html
The city will just file for bankruptcy and we will get zip at retirement. Who will go broke first, the city or the state?
The 2008 Pension Charity Calendar of the Hot Men and Women of CPD is on sale now.
The calendar is only 3 months because they are awaiting new hired officers in the chance they may find 9 more officers that are HOT enough for the calendar.
RELAX, there is nothing to worry about. With the health care and medical insurance we have, we will all be dead before we collect the third retirement check. And god forbid you need dental care. Our Dental Insurance covers the cleaning the rest is out of your pocket!!!!
Bill and John Daley offered their Pension Plan Program to the Mayor. For a mere 12.4% they can take the pension plan over.
"Pension Disaster Looms"
Ya think????
EVERYONE needs to send emails to the FOP Board and let them know how you feel about not getting a pension.
"In the crash of 1929 most woke up one morning to find all was lost. History will repeat itself. Then what do we do-Cry?Time to get rid of FOP and demand what is ours from City HAll. But we are SHEEP!!
1/14/2008 07:45:00 AM"
The Funny part, they have the stones to do this to people who lay it on the line &carry firearms everday?
What is clearly evident from this blog is how vastly divided the rank and file of the CPD is. Unfortunately a major division line is race. Brothers and sisters this needs to stop and we need to unify. This pension crisis is just another case where the way we behave at the voting booth affects our home life. We have some major elections coming up where we can either allow things to just occur or we can try to have a impact which benefits us. Both local and national the divisions between us stand to have an impact on these elections. Whether it be voting along party lines or race lines, both are wrong and irresponsible. We need to look at each candidate and what they stand for and what they propose in the way of Taxes, Spending, Health Care reform, Tort Reform, Supreme Court Judges, and Crime issues. From the approaching FOP election to the National election, all of these come at a critical time for us. I am not endorsing anyone but I am looking closely at those candidates who offer to cut my taxes and allow me to use my money to support my family as opposed to those who want to take more of my money to give to others "less fortunate" like illegal aliens. Try to imagine for one moment that I come to your home with a family of Irish illegals and a single, unemployed mother with five children from five different men (This is not race, i know examples from each community). I step inside and demand you give me a percentage of your stuff to give to these families and the thousands like them. I'd probably end up laying on your lawn with a smoking hole in my head. However, we do nothing to oppose those who propose to do that through the tax system. We need to become a color blind group of voters or better, blue seeing voters who focus on what affects our families. You never know when you may lose it all. I went through a very costly divorce which wiped my family out. I won, if anyone wins a divorce but my kids and I still struggle. Yet, in the eyes of some, since I worked 85% of my days off last year and made over 120,000.00, they see me as rich. Rich???, I have no savings, no credit union, and haven't been able to spare anything for deferred comp in years. One in high school and one in college and paying off a 150,000 divorce, I'm broke. Yet some propose to take more of my money. And now my retirement is in jeopardy. We may have a State's Attorney that wants us in jail, a mayor who hates us all, a county President, well do i really need to say anything, A governor who makes Ryan seem like a saint, and still we throw jabs at one another about what neighborhood we live in and who hates who more. SCC, you have a great thing here, the potential to do good is huge. We need to start using this blog to our advantage and not just for our amusement. United we are huge, 12,000 plus our family and friends, that's political muscle. That's why they want to keep us divided. Brothers and sisters we need to unite for many reasons, our families most of all...
O'Brien
006
I wouldn't be surprised if all payouts from lawsuits in this city are paid from our pension! HELL........this new commission is probably funded from our pensions!
Simmer down boys and girls... there's no doubt our pension fund is under funded, but the politico's options are limited. Read Section 5 of the Illinois State Constitution:
"SECTION 5. PENSION AND RETIREMENT RIGHTS
Membership in any pension or retirement system of the
State, any unit of local government or school district, or
any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an
enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which
shall not be diminished or impaired."
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
By the funding ratios stated here it becomes abundantly that the City took care of the outfit laborers union! Or the greaseball union officials are as good with investing as they are cutting hair, or shaving prosciutto. Well before SCC bans phrase like turkeys, or F***en Irish I'd like to say I hope all you lemming turkey coppers who vote the straight Irish ticket are happy with all this! You did this to yourself. So go ahead and vote for Allen, O'Connor, Mulroe, and the rest of the connected mics. As for me, thank God I married rich!!!
Lets give people who don't do shit everything for free so that they have no desire to better themselves or their communities. Then, let's take as much as we can and then some from the people who work, they can take it. This is bullshit. Stop all of these programs that enable people to do nothing but get high, drunk and pump out babies. Stop writing the working people for minor crap and start hammering the scum for everything.
These pension boards are loaded with political hacks. Like everyone else in this city they take their marching orders from the fifth floor. Our pensions are fucked so hopefully you have been contributing to defered comp. The only one who had the balls, ironically, to say no to this guy is gone. Remeber her? Remember what happened to her ?
Maybe we can lose the mayors nephew and get Miriam Santos back here! Anyone have her number. Draft Miriam!
CPD officers need to make pension reform their number one priority when bargaining for the next contract. As another poster mentioned, the young guys and gals don't really care about this issue, but that is only because they don't realize how fast time flies by. Sooner than you think, you too will be retired, if you are fortunate enough to get thru your career without getting killed, fired, or locked up due to the ever growing police hating media. If you haven't already done so, max out your deferred comp fund as well. When you retire, you'll have a nice nest egg and will be able to enjoy yourself so much better than with the pension alone.
May I suggest that we all file a class action suit against the City and in addition please rid ourselves of a useless FOP.
What pension fund is Daley in?
Daley, I am told is not in any city pension fund, he is in the Illinois State Legislator's pension system. The pension follows the member from job to job and I am sure they have full medical coverage for their retirees. It's nice when you can write your own rules.
If they screw with our pensions, it is time for a revolution. Scrap the Olympics, new iron fences, and all the new pretty hired trucks projects. We send that stuttering narcissistic tic to the federal pen, and put the money into the people.
We need to keep a Republican in the White House because any Democrat will let Richie do what he wants.
Stay safe, and vote Republican.
Really Now! People should know that the City already has all of its ducks in a row. This Blue Ribbon Committee is just a formality and more smoke n mirrors The State Politiicans along with our elected officials have already earmarked what and how they were going to mishandle their new windfall from the pension program. Mean while and between time, the rank and file are still at each other throats about who got a spot, working inside. Keep on keeping on Officers, you'll be working trying to pay for that bungalow until you're seventy, and you'll still be just bitching on some blog site
I bet Brett Favre could solve the pension crisis!
whoever posted that list last week was nuts or a genius because there was an uproar and some assignments have been changed.
001 Hannigan, K
002 Casey, P
003 West, B
004 Davis, E.
005 Adducci, M.
006 Devries, D.
007 Mc Laurin, C
007 Chambers, K
008 Wojick, A
008 Carothers, A.
009 Lavoy, J.
010 Flores, L.
011 Garrido, J
012 Godsel, D
012 Konow, K.
014 Valdez, O
015 Biggane, M.
022 Fiddler, B.
024 Looney, W.
025 Loughran, S
what can we do about it? if anything that is besides complainon this thread. SCC any suggestions
OFF TOPIC INFORMATIONAL NEWS:
NEW YORK PD BANNING FACIAL HAIR FOR OFFICERS
The increasingly diverse NYPD wants to get a little more uniform: Cops have been told to say goodbye to their goatees, chin strap beards and designer hair affectations more suitable for, well, designers.
Police officers are allowed to have mustaches -- the most notable wearer is Chief of Department Joe Esposito -- and undercovers can pretty much do whatever they want when it comes to facial hair.
Isn't the pension regulated by state law? I doubt the down-staters will roll over for hizzoner.
If Daley would set aside money in the budget for the pension funds and then address his programs instead of shortchanging the funds the funds would not be short. We the employees keep making contributions and the city keeps shorting its end. If the city would live up to its side then I wouldn't mind considering certain options, but since the city under Daley refuses to admit its intentional practice of shorting the funds and refusing to contribute fully to the funds then I am against anything the city suggests regarding the future of the fund. Will the mayor and alderman increase their contributions and take a cut in benefits? Silly question, of course not. They get 80% when they retire. And their medical is nothing like ours. Call your union rep, email your union president. This will undoubtedly affect not only those presently working but also those retired. Daley doesn't give a shit about the present employees and doesn't care about retirees. If the unions (po, serg, lt) lay down on this then they should all be voted out.
Sam Bass
WARNING!
COVER-UP IN PROGRESS!
Re: Richard M. Daley and his "blue ribbon panels".
Based on my own personal experience, whenever Daley appoints a "blue ribbon panel" (BRP) to study something for a year or two, WATCH OUT!
When we had "smoking gun" evidence that EXAMSCAM was rigged, Daley appointed a "blue ribbon panel" to "study" it. Two years later, after the outrage dissipated in the media, his BRP came back saying that while the "promotional process" left much to be desired, there was no evidence of INTENTIONAL fraud and conspiracy. All of this despite the fact that we forwarded (via cerified mail) incontrovertible evidence and a damning videotape to the seven Daley-chosen members proving chicanery by the city. Susan S. Sher, the then Corporation Counsel, also refused to let our victims testify before this BRP of lying muthafuckers.
There should be red flags all over the place on this pension shortfall bullshit. Daley further compounds the situation with his typical smoke and mirrors by failing to appoint BRP members representing OUR interests.
I don't see how our pension could ever be in trouble. Since the average copper lives 2.5 years after retireing.
To whomever is pushing that "other" blog:
You are fucking nuts if you think we are going to advertise that crap for you. There is no way in hell we are allowing anything with the FOP7 name to be attached to what we've created. You get ZERO courtesy here. You'd try to ride on our coattails and drag us into your cesspool of bullshit? Go fuck yourself.
Not only that, you get ZIP for the other blog name.
And since we know who you are, you get ZILCH under your real names should you chose to post anything under those either.
Apologies to our readers who won't have any idea what we're talking about, but to the person(s) who do know, F.O.A.D.
SCC
Did we miss something? Which blog are you referring to, if you don't mind letting us know. Thanks
Lt. assignments did not come out today. Phone calls were made and I saw the list here it is.
002 Hannigan, K
019 Casey, P
007 West, B
004 Davis, E.
007 Adducci, M.
006 Devries, D.
003 Mc Laurin, C
006 Chambers, K
025 Wojick, A
008 Carothers, A.
005 Lavoy, J.
010 Flores, L.
015 Garrido, J
012 Godsel, D
001 Konow, K.
014 Valdez, O
015 Biggane, M.
009 Fiddler, B.
024 Looney, W.
011 Loughran, S
Is the Mayoral or Aldermanic pension fund underfunded? Somebody post and let us know, please!
Sicerely,
Cute Senorita Mickey Mouse Ears from TRU.
rof115 said...
Simmer down boys and girls... there's no doubt our pension fund is under funded, but the politico's options are limited. Read Section 5 of the Illinois State Constitution:
"SECTION 5. PENSION AND RETIREMENT RIGHTS
Membership in any pension or retirement system of the
State, any unit of local government or school district, or
any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an
enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which
shall not be diminished or impaired."
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
1/14/2008 03:58:00 PM
Yeah till they decide to change the rules! Are you that freaking dumb? If the money isn't there, it won't just rain down like manna from heaven. Drink some more Kool Aide bro.
Anonymous said...
Isn't the pension regulated by state law? I doubt the down-staters will roll over for hizzoner.
1/14/2008 06:41:00 PM
They'll just make a new law that applies to just fucking municipalities with 1,000,000 or more. Remember what the first jagoff Daley did with residency?
The pension should be like the lotto. Lump sum or yearly payout by your choice!
The advantage of a 'Defined Contribution' or 401-K plan, is that an individual would not feel compelled to stay in the job for twenty years or more to receive the current 'Defined Benefit'pension. You can decide to leave this job at any time, start a new career, and take your 401-K with you. However, those with at least 5 years already on the job, should be allowed to keep the current retirement plan.
Not to worry kids.
We will take back the Skyway in just 96 more years. By then the tolls ($3.00 now-1 Jan 08) will be $275.00 per auto for the 7 mile stretch.
Problem is, none of you will be alive then to use that money towards your pension. We will all be driving hover craft vehicles.
Yours truly'
H.G. Wells
SCC
I have a question. Is it possible for the FOP and the Fire Dept Union to get a court order placing a lean against a the cities assets until they pay their share of what is owed? Also how about intrest lost on the money that we dont have?
I know it sounds stupid, but if the city cant sell or lease property without having to pay the pension fund, wouldn't they be more willing to work and negotiate fairly with us.
Expect massive departmentwide resignations and changes,the next 18 months willbe truly something to behold on the CPD. Mark this down and count on it!!!
No prediction and no BS,just wait and see.
Class Action Lawsuit.
Deferred compensation is not safe either,it is an asset of the city until separation from service; IE: quit,fired,die,retire.
Orange County,California went after employees deferred compensation when they went bellyup.
This is something to remember when you contribute to it.
I don't see how our pension could ever be in trouble. Since the average copper lives 2.5 years after retireing.
1/14/2008 07:44:00 PM
You might have to revised that stat
that was for those officers who were maxing out.....mor and more coppers are hitting 20yrs/50 yrs of age and running for the hill
50% of something is better then nothing.....you guys might think of looking at a smaller department
the up front pay might not be as much, but you don't have to gamble on your future. Imagine working 25 to 30 yrs and you have to retire to work at KMarts to make ends meet.
First our pension is in state law. It has been always hard to hard to get enhancements to our pensions but it isn’t very easy to screw with the pension either. Learn who your state Rep. and state Senator is. Let him/her know in no uncertain terms that this is very important to you and if they do not give you/us their support we will spend very free moment to ensure that they will never ever be elected to any officer ever again. The downstate congressmen could care less and we control the NW and SW side people so the only people who would push this are the ones who hate us now. Do you think Madigan wants every copper in his District working against him? This would effect every city worker eventually. There goes the patronize armies.
It is time for every copper to let his state congressman know that we would be VERY unhappy if they every even thought about supporting this!
If the city gets the Olympics I could see every copper sick, scheduling out-patient surgeries, and/or our first strike if the retard we have for mayor ever got this thru. But you could see the city going for a two tiered plan with all of the new hires in a 401k. Where is the 1.8 billion we got for the Skyway Mr. Mayor?
Pat Fitzgerald how long will you take get to this guy to trial? You already have him for lying to the Fed’s when you took his statement under oath don’t you?
I will personally disembowel anybody that fucks with my pension.
Anonymous said...
SCC
I have a question. Is it possible for the FOP and the Fire Dept Union to get a court order placing a lean against a the cities assets until they pay their share of what is owed? Also how about intrest lost on the money that we dont have?
I know it sounds stupid, but if the city cant sell or lease property without having to pay the pension fund, wouldn't they be more willing to work and negotiate fairly with us.
1/14/2008 08:44:00 PM
============
Sounds good. Just name the negotating body that will do that for us and the judge that won't laugh them out of court.
Anonymous said...
First our pension is in state law. It has been always hard to hard to get enhancements to our pensions but it isn’t very easy to screw with the pension either.
===========
They have been "screwing" with it enough to underfund it, guy
HAS ANYONE BEEN RECEIVING PHONE CALLS FROM A P.O. ABOUT A SIDE JOB OPPORTUNITY, HE WOULDN'T GIVE DETAILS JUST WANTED TO SET UP A INTERVIEW IN HIS OFFICE ON S. HARLEM AVE. STATED IT WOULDN'T BE SECURITY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT????? PLEASE REPLY IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING I HAVE THE NAME AND NUMBER JUST DON'T WANT TO THROW IT OUT THERE IF HE'S FOR REAL
To those who continue to post the below informaion regarding a GAO report done for Orange County, it no longer applies.
I have already contacted Deferred Comp regarding this issue. I submitted to them the GAO report and their counsel replied to me in writting that the money is now set aside in a trust which can not be touched by the city. It s you money and the city can not take, this topic is over and done.
If you do not believe me, do the work I have done a you will find out yourself
Deferred compensation is not safe either,it is an asset of the city until separation from service; IE: quit,fired,die,retire.
Orange County,California went after employees deferred compensation when they went bellyup.
This is something to remember when you contribute to it.
Ike was in the building today crying for his baby brother. He was heard saying -
"Send my lil bro to 008. You know he is the best man on this Job, who else gets three merit promotions?"
Nothin but the best for this department.
Hurry Jodie b-4 Ike has him made commander.
Commander Tony January 31, 2008.
Jodie reports February 1, 2008
ANSWER THIS said...
HAS ANYONE BEEN RECEIVING PHONE CALLS FROM A P.O. ABOUT A SIDE JOB OPPORTUNITY, HE WOULDN'T GIVE DETAILS JUST WANTED TO SET UP A INTERVIEW IN HIS OFFICE ON S. HARLEM AVE. STATED IT WOULDN'T BE SECURITY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT????? PLEASE REPLY IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING I HAVE THE NAME AND NUMBER JUST DON'T WANT TO THROW IT OUT THERE IF HE'S FOR REAL
**********************************
It's some kind of B.S. selling mortgages and investments commission based.
I knew a few PO's and non PO's who went to hear the "sales" pitch. Didn't sound that good to them. Almost "pyramid scheme-like" as in the guys at the top make alot of $$ and you make a little. Plus they wanted you to get them all your family members and relatives info so they could "cold call" them for leads and stuff.
One of the guys may have been former P.O. Ozzie R. from 013.
They called me a few years ago. I never called them back. But a female I know went there, sit you down in a conference room and lock the door, then do the hard sell on your ass!
The underfunding of pensions is not something that just appeared overnight. Lil-king richie and his band of thieves have been growing this problem for at least 25 years. Now it is a major monster. Or is it? The city has money for all the insiders on O'Hare expansion, hired trucks, flower pots and iron fences.
If the city can't afford our pensions, how are they going to afford the Olympics?
This is an example of a huge and growing problem. "Defined-benefit" pensions are unenforceable promises. If the employer goes belly-up, the pensioners can lose everything.
With a defined-contribution plan, the employer puts the money aside now, and the pensioner is protected. Also, in an IRA or proper 401(k), the money is out of the employer's grasp and can't be diverted.
Defined-benefit pensions are also a way for governments to buy off unionized employees at the expense of future taxpayers. Illinois pensions range into ridiculous territory. There are teachers retiring on pensions of over $100,000/year!
In this case it looks like the city has been making excessive promises it can't afford to keep. I would like to see analysis showing what full-funding the pensions would have cost, year-by-year; correlated with what the pension rules are and how they have changed. If the city had to come up with the money then, maybe they wouldn't have made these pledges. If - I say if - the city gave away the store on pensions, there may just have to be roll-backs; and better sooner than later, lest the funds be drained paying out unrealistic benefits.
That's if. And I suspect that pensions for the brass, the aldercreatures, and city brass are all gold-plated and double-dipped. Start there.
Just a Tax-Paying Civilian
I agree about the gold braid parachute
They never had them years ago
the Supt got a Captains pension and that was it
1/14/2008 10:13:00 PM
Did the guy say he was from 008? I got a phone message on my home phone like that. If he got my number from the dept (or dept records if he's crafty- your home phone of record is available to ANY p.o. if they know how to find it...) it would be the home phone- but anyone else it would be my cell...made me kinda concerned right away....
RE:
tru rocks! said...
Is the Mayoral or Aldermanic pension fund underfunded? Somebody post and let us know, please!
Sicerely,
Cute Senorita Mickey Mouse Ears from TRU.
1/14/2008 08:15:00 PM
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Who ever is trying to be cute can see me personally about making fun of my wife's ears. I find her ears perfect so try to prove otherewise asshat!
Sgt. In 005, you know who I am if you posted the original post!
Don't worry. R.C. Vanecko, Daley's sticky handed nephew will save us.
FOP You have given up much don't ever give our pension! By the way who was the bone head at fop that had the goofy thought to let the maembership pay your huge salaries? Great you let the city off the hook and took more from us what leadership! Are any boy scout leaders looking for a career change? the Fop will have 5 openings soon and we are looking for real leaders!
Quote from the articel on the CTA spending:
"We're making sure folks know this is a tax paying for pensions. ... It won't put another train on the tracks or another bus on the street," said Brian Bernardoni, director of government affairs for the Realtors group.
Get ready boys and girls, people are already starting in the papers about taxess paying for pension in reagrds to the CTA. Just wait until something like this comes along for the police and fire.
Also, if anyone has any info on the concession that the CTA union agreed too, please post. From what I heard, and do not know if it true, is that the Union agreed to a two tear system.
Please post info and stay informed
FOP You have given up much don't ever give our pension! By the way who was the bone head at fop that had the goofy thought to let the maembership pay your huge salaries? Great you let the city off the hook and took more from us what leadership! Are any boy scout leaders looking for a career change? the Fop will have 5 openings soon and we are looking for real leaders!
Dear No-time-on-the-job asshole,
We'll give you the names right now. Bill Nolan and Bob Podgorny gave away the salary payouts. Nolan was pulling Podgorny's strings (as Nolan had retired mid-term and was lame duck president) and Bob signed a letter of agreement saying that the Lodge would reimburse the City for the inside guy salaries. We voted that contract down 2 to 1, but the arbitrator didn't want to overrule "agreements" so we got fucked anyway.
This is the same Podgorny running with Kevin Jans and Al Jag-off-ski for FOP spots. Birds of a feather.
I think you should revolt and go on strike. I know you aren't allowed to do it but hell you aren't going to get what's coming to you anyway. You and the FD can strike and literally watch the whole city burn in a matter of weeks, if not days. Maybe then they'll say it's ok for the people to be armed also. It would also wreck Daley's chance of the getting the Olympics there too.
Anonymous said...
ANSWER THIS said...
HAS ANYONE BEEN RECEIVING PHONE CALLS FROM A P.O. ABOUT A SIDE JOB OPPORTUNITY, HE WOULDN'T GIVE DETAILS JUST WANTED TO SET UP A INTERVIEW IN HIS OFFICE ON S. HARLEM AVE. STATED IT WOULDN'T BE SECURITY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT????? PLEASE REPLY IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING I HAVE THE NAME AND NUMBER JUST DON'T WANT TO THROW IT OUT THERE IF HE'S FOR REAL
**********************************
It's some kind of B.S. selling mortgages and investments commission based.
I knew a few PO's and non PO's who went to hear the "sales" pitch. Didn't sound that good to them. Almost "pyramid scheme-like" as in the guys at the top make alot of $$ and you make a little. Plus they wanted you to get them all your family members and relatives info so they could "cold call" them for leads and stuff.
One of the guys may have been former P.O. Ozzie R. from 013.
They called me a few years ago. I never called them back. But a female I know went there, sit you down in a conference room and lock the door, then do the hard sell on your ass!
1/14/2008 11:53:00 PM
THank you, where is this guy getting our home phone numbers
We are Fuked!! The city wont help us but they still raise our taxes!!! Thanks do nothing FOP! This job and this city SUX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!It will only get worse.
1/14/2008 01:48:00 AM
Go Fuke yourself.
Al JAGlowski might be the biggest jagoff on the department.
Anonymous said...
To those who continue to post the below informaion regarding a GAO report done for Orange County, it no longer applies.
I have already contacted Deferred Comp regarding this issue. I submitted to them the GAO report and their counsel replied to me in writting that the money is now set aside in a trust which can not be touched by the city. It s you money and the city can not take, this topic is over and done.
If you do not believe me, do the work I have done a you will find out yourself
Deferred compensation is not safe either,it is an asset of the city until separation from service; IE: quit,fired,die,retire.
Orange County,California went after employees deferred compensation when they went bellyup.
This is something to remember when you contribute to it.
1/14/2008 10:45:00 PM
============
Orange cnty -might- have had a matching program that they went after and got back. Not sure. Obvsly, OUR def comp is untouchable bec it really is our money. But if some Big Meanie gives you money and you don't spend before he "asks" for it back, he'll get it back one way or another.
For those of you who believe that your def comp money isn't safe, transfer the money out. You can transfer half of your money over to Charles Schwab and put it stocks or mutual funds of your choice. Just call def comp and ask for info on the schwab account. It only cost 50 bucks a year to maintain and you can always transfer the money back if you wish. At least this way you have more control over your money.
I heard that SOS had a very good supplamental pension system in place, optional of course. It has guaranteed a roof, regular meals and clean clothes for life to a number of willing participants.
Better solution:
Work hard, get used to living in a cheaper house, drive used cars, shop carefully, look for bargains and max out on deferred comp right out of the academy and you can retire comfortably the day you have 20 and 50. Guaranteed.
Oh, and don't complain and whine in the meantime and never lose a night's sleep over crap you have no control over.
defined benefit plans are a bad idea for a lot of reasons. they allow the entities sponsoring them to not fund them to get out of a temporary financial pinch, but forcing a much worse problem down the road.
there is nothing wrong with a 401K plan, especially one that is funded properly. it runs heads and tails above any traditional pension plan, plus it is yours even after you croak.
some investments are not for the faint of heart. if you want security, GICs are normally available in 401k type plans. they don't offer the long term returns of the stock market, but don't have the ups and downs either.
do you really want daley and future crooks that run the city in charge of your financial future?
Pension Fund
Instead of everyone beefing about this and that , how about a novel idea? Hold those investment firms that have our money accountable. I attended a Pension Board meeting only once and asked if the board could or would sue a brokerage firm that was scalping US government bonds. The firm had announced that it would make the buyers whole. I was repeatedly asked what I was talking about, they had no clue. This was at least 15 years ago.
Now, we have the subprime mess. How about the Pension Board asking those brilliant advisors who have our money. Do you or did you own?
Citigroup, Bear Stearns, JPMorgan, Countrywide Financial, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, any of the bond insurers?
If you still own them, why? Why did you not see this coming? I did and I am just a retired police officer.
This is one of the real problems, the Pension Fund is run by get togethers and those that get the money pay for the little trips for all of the board members.
old retired guy
ANSWER THIS said...
HAS ANYONE BEEN RECEIVING PHONE CALLS FROM A P.O. ABOUT A SIDE JOB OPPORTUNITY, HE WOULDN'T GIVE DETAILS JUST WANTED TO SET UP A INTERVIEW IN HIS OFFICE ON S. HARLEM AVE.
**********
It's selling Primerica Insurance.
Anonymous said...
First our pension is in state law. It has been always hard to hard to get enhancements to our pensions but it isn’t very easy to screw with the pension either.
===========
They have been "screwing" with it enough to underfund it, guy
1/14/2008 10:09:00 PM
============================
The under funding almost all comes from officers living longer on pension not that they are not making the payments. The retiree’s took the city to court (my uncle was one of the petitioner’s) because they were not sending in their contributions. They won in court but that’s when the city started charging the pensioners for health care as retribution. It was only a handshake agreement prior to then. The city is also very pissed that they had to refund city retiree’s 26.8 million dollars for the overcharging of their premiums for 2004-2006.
We now pay 9% into the pension plan and the city pays 18% and it needs to go up based upon today’s actuary rates to near 11.5% for us and 23% for the city. Most of this shit Da Mayor has started is a preemptive strike because the police and fire have both been in Springfield lobbing for casino monies for pensions when Chicago get one. I would bet the kids that the city wants us to take the selling of 200 hours back for P.O.’s and the cost of living stipend off the bargaining table as some kind of a trade off.
what fucking pisses me off, is that we can find all this money (billions of dollars) for the 2016 Olympics, but we can't fucking fund the pensions of the people that make this fucking City work. It makes NO FUCKING SENSE!
FUCK YOU DALEY AND YOUR FUCKING OLYMPICS!
After of watching big business, labor and bankers screw up other pensions I would be very careful of what they come up with.
Here is a start, give the Pension fund the 20 + million that is owed to them and do not allow the FOP to forgive and debt. Who the hell are they to pull such bullshit?
Since when does he FOP (19th Ward) have any say so regarding our pension.
KICK THEM ALL OUT !!!!!!!
ANSWER THIS said...
HAS ANYONE BEEN RECEIVING PHONE CALLS FROM A P.O. ABOUT A SIDE JOB OPPORTUNITY, HE WOULDN'T GIVE DETAILS JUST WANTED TO SET UP A INTERVIEW IN HIS OFFICE ON S. HARLEM AVE. STATED IT WOULDN'T BE SECURITY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT????? PLEASE REPLY IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING I HAVE THE NAME AND NUMBER JUST DON'T WANT TO THROW IT OUT THERE IF HE'S FOR REAL
**********************************
It's some kind of B.S. selling mortgages and investments commission based.
I knew a few PO's and non PO's who went to hear the "sales" pitch. Didn't sound that good to them. Almost "pyramid scheme-like" as in the guys at the top make alot of $$ and you make a little. Plus they wanted you to get them all your family members and relatives info so they could "cold call" them for leads and stuff.
One of the guys may have been former P.O. Ozzie R. from 013.
They called me a few years ago. I never called them back. But a female I know went there, sit you down in a conference room and lock the door, then do the hard sell on your ass!
1/14/2008 11:53:00 PM
The outfit you are referring to is called Primerica subsidiary of Citicorp! Citicorp just lost 20 billion dollars last year and slashed their stock dividends in half!
You start out selling life insurance to your family and friends at inflated rates. Then they have the nerve to get you to want to quit your job and work for them on commission. BWWAAA HHAAWW!!
Another former P.O. goof is Pete Trinidad formaly of 013, quit the CPD after almost 13 years on the job.
Another Goof Joe Rodriguez 014 Midnights, for over 11 years and now is a struggling insurance salesman making less than 50K!
I made over 80K standing around!
Don't listen to their garbage if you value your lifestyle!
I also sat through one of their hard sell meetings and it just sucks and was a waste of time!
Now I know how there is enough money to throw around and make Daley's son and nephew and clout friends rich, Daley shorts the contribution to the pensions of the city employees. And he wants us to pick up the tab even more while taking more away from all of us. NO MORE GIVE BACKS! NO MORE GIVE BACKS! NO MORE GIVE BACKS!
Sam Bass
retirment age will be raised to 55 and 3 % increase will begin at age 60 this will help save our pension
Re:
Sicerely,
Cute Senorita Mickey Mouse Ears from TRU.
1/14/2008 08:15:00 PM
----------------------------
TOO FRICKEN FUNNY! For those who know who this is, I know your laughing your asses off! Cops have the best sense of humor!
Cute Senorita Mickey Mouse Ears from TRU.
ahhhhhhhahahaha
This city has been going down hill fast with Daley and Co running city hall. That includes all the connected cronies in street and sans, CPD and CFD - the exempt do-nothings who get paid a fat salary and the other cronies i.e. nephews who get our pension $ to play with, son who is in kahoots with some underground deal, etc. When is going to end? When Daley is out.
Watch out, the Olympics is going to bankrupt the city and Daley doesn't care where the $$ comes from to fund it...that includes our pension....look out folks, we are in for a downhill ride.
Regarding that cold call from the former cop with citi corp. I had them call me two years ago. call Capperilli at the FOP, he called the guy to knock it off or a law suit was going to be filed. That's why you don't have the old style alpha list anymore.
KILL THAT FUCKING ROBBERY CALLED THE "GOLD BRAID" ACT.
In response to the phone call about part-time work: I received this type of call a couple of years ago. He said he was reaching out to PO's that live in 008 who were interested in working part-time. I told him I wasn't interested. Was pretty curious as to how he got #'s of po's that lived in 008.
Transfering your deferred comp money to on on schwab account will not protect you. It will still remain a city asset until you retire and start taking dispersals. You can however roll it into a 401k if you were to leave here and go work somewhere else. It would probably be worth it to take another job after retirement for a while just to get the money out of the hands of the thieves.
The under funding almost all comes from officers living longer on pension not that they are not making the payments. The retiree’s took the city to court (my uncle was one of the petitioner’s) because they were not sending in their contributions. They won in court but that’s when the city started charging the pensioners for health care as retribution. It was only a handshake agreement prior to then. ...
We now pay 9% into the pension plan and the city pays 18% and it needs to go up based upon today’s actuary rates to near 11.5% for us and 23% for the city. Most of this shit Da Mayor has started is a preemptive strike because the police and fire have both been in Springfield lobbing for casino monies for pensions when Chicago get one. I would bet the kids that the city wants us to take the selling of 200 hours back for P.O.’s and the cost of living stipend off the bargaining table as some kind of a trade off.
1/15/2008 03:02:00 PM
I have been retired for over 7 years, after 37 years, and this is the way I remember the situation. I hesitate to say this because I am already benefiting from the fund, but it is correct that the pension contribution must be raised as is stated in the attached post. It is difficult for the city to play with the pension money, but if more is going out than is coming in, obviously it will not sustain itself. When the market was booming it could happenm, but not today.
Many of you keep knocking the "brass bill," like it is something new. It has been around since the early 60's to my remembrance. Please don't forget that those receiving payments based on exempt rank salaries paid in based on exempt rank salaries.
I am also unable to remember when/how the FOP was in a position to allow the city to borrow 23.8 milliom from the fund. I am pretty sure that the neither the FOP nor any other bargaining unit has any control over the fund. I do not remember this. Can anyone explain or elaborate?
That's how we went from 32 years and a day to 29 and a day. In the big picture it proportions out to you giving an extra dollar for a tip on a 250k bill or like MJ losing a 5$ bet. I hate the city and Da mayor even more but it was a good trade. They just made the city refund 26.8 million back to retiree's for over charing for health care costs. It has to really piss of the the city.
The revolver police
SCC, sorry, I like the blog but important issues like the pension crisis are starting to be overshadowed here by talk of other blogs. This issue and the FOP election need to be kept in the forefront.
In regards to the pension fund a few things stood out. One or more posted in favor of increasing the Officer's contribution to the fund. If that's what it's really going to take fine but we don't just eat that increase. You know when I came on this job (Am I really this old?) our health care was free. Now I pay up to a $45 co-pay for one of my prescriptions. We keep giving and the city keeps taking.
I'm not sure which candidate but one the Presidential candidates spoke about a new tax exemption for teachers. Great! They deserve it but so do we and so do all first responders. You know, we're used to what we do, running toward shots fired, running into burning buildings, searching vacant houses for God knows what, so it doesn't seem like a big deal to us. But I guarantee you Daley wouldn't do it nor would most of these politicians. When the twin towers fell on 9/11 it was policeman and fireman who ran into those buildings to rescue people. Streets and Sans people didn't run in, politicians sure in the hell didn't run in, even teachers didn't run in. Police and fire ran in. When New Orleans flooded who did they send out distress messages for? Send us you Animal Control?, No!, send us your police. When the proverbial shit hits the fan we are it, no one else. We are special and we need to be treated as such and demand that we are. Especially with the Olympic bid, I'm sorry, I've not heard one mention of demonstrations on our part. Not job actions, I'm not endorsing that idea, but we can march and let the world see the Chicago Police and Fire are fed up. I think the International Olympic committee would just love to see the Chicago Police and Fire Department Marching on city hall once a week until we get some respect. But who am I kidding, this unit sucks and this guys an asshat and blah, blah, blah. One last thought, if what someone else posted is true, that the city plans to spend billions, well, if we don't get the bid what happens to those billions they were going to be able to come up with? Does it evaporate? Does it go the way of our pension money? If we lose the bid, why can't Daley still come up with these large sums to at least restore OUR pension fund and to ensure we the best compensated police, at least in Illinois for God's sake...? Does anybody care about anything anymore, other then who doing who??? Come on guys, get a little pissed off!!!
"The outfit you are referring to is called Primerica subsidiary of Citicorp! Citicorp just lost 20 billion dollars last year and slashed their stock dividends in half!"
Its a multi level marketing outfit, also called a pyramid. The products change, but the scheme remains the same. It used to be Amway, then Primerica, now Goji juice. Most of the products are worthless or can be bought anywhere for cheaper, but the deal is to get other people involved below you and make money off of their sales. When the whole thing collapses, everyone is unemployed and the ones on the bottom are out jobs and have no money. These schemes usually prey on the weak minded and make outrageous claims. By the time these fools quit their real jobs and realize the scheme, they usually have no options but to try to find some other suckers to join. Watch for the latest trend - Goji juice - the Himilayan cure all. It sells for $150 for a one month supply and can cure everything. One guy (a copper downtown) actually told me to give it to a relative who is a diabetic and he would no longer have to take insulin. I wait for the day when someone actually takes his advice and some poor fool dies as a result. Ask any doctor what Gojo juice does for you - almost as good as grape juice but about $140 cheaper. Like I said - weak minds.
<< Home