This Has to be Addressed
We weren't even going to cover this event because we know it brings out the worst in some people. And rather than wade through the crap that will inevitably appear in the comments, we were going to let it lie. But then we read this in the papers:
- [Sun Times] The teens had been told to stay away from the water, and their teachers likely were asleep when they took the boats, Greene said.
Some family members have questioned why the boats weren't chained down.
- [Tribune] Amid talk of re-examining school policies, some relatives questioned why the camp hadn't secured the boats. Some students, meanwhile, noted that risk-taking was part of being young.
Believe it or not, there are still some places in this country, places within 50 miles of the City, where you don't have to lock your doors at night, where you can leave the keys in the car with the window down, where lost property will be placed upon a nearby fence post so the next time you drive by you'll spot it there. Let's review:
- they were supposedly the brightest of the school
- they were told to stay away from the river
- they went out after curfew - nothing good ever happens at one a.m.
- they hauled SIX boats, each weighing 300 pounds, over 150 feet to the river
- they entered into these contraptions, ignorant of their function and ignorant of the missing plugs.
We don't know about you, but a 300 pound boat we don't know how to operate parked half a football field from a river we were told to stay away from seems like a pretty damn secure boat. Blaming anybody but these kids (yes, kids) is ignorant beyond words.
Labels: silly people
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
53 Comments:
Personal Responsibility??
Sorry to hear that the actions of these future leaders of the community resulted in their deaths but sometimes there is consequences to breaking the rules, or not heeding the rules.
The kids, and their parents, have never been taught personal responsibility. It is NEVER their fault, it is always someone else's fault.
Obama falls into this category.
It's a sad tragic accident, but that is all it is. Nobody is to blame except the young men themselves.
They put the rescue workers into danger by their actions. I have yet to hear one person thank the men and women that were in that water, 42 degrees, and worked so hard under terrible conditions.
I also remember it was raining that evening pretty good out here that night.
That camp has been opened for close to 100 years, and have served countless kids. I'm afraid lawsuits will be filed and they will no longer to be able to operate.
My prayers to the rescue workers, and the friends and families of the victims.
I understand that you are Holier-than-thou SCC, but remeber when you were 16, 17, & 18 and snuck out of the house and got into things that you were not supposed to, took the car out, went out drinking and smoking.
Yes it was a bad decision, a deadly decison made by these kids but that does not make them any less than the good kids that they have been portrayed as having been.
It could have just as easily been any of us reading or writing on this blog or any of our children. That is what kids do... make bad decisions some times. Luckily for us, all of the decsions we have made do not have such deadly consequences.
RIP kids
YES, IT DOES...They try to take over MY boat, "different result"...
Maybe link Shaved's posting on it. Shaves brings up a lot of points about the reporting of this story. It's very good. He doesn't really touch on the incident itself but how the media is blaming everybody in this story except the students who stole the boats to go joyriding.
www.shavedlongcock.blogspot.com
is his website.
These kids have themselves to blame for their stupid acts and no one else! This is no different then being out on the streets after curfew and getting shot and kilt!
Sorry for your losses!
BUT,
The families do NOT deserve a penny! This is about money at this point!
I understand that you are Holier-than-thou SCC, but remeber when you were 16, 17, & 18 and snuck out of the house and got into things that you were not supposed to, took the car out, went out drinking and smoking.
There's where you're wrong. We were raised differently. Sneaking out wasn't allowed and if it ever happened, the punishment would have been too severe to imagine.
When we were out, unsupervised, sure we pushed the boundaries a little bit. All kids do. But the boundaries never included theft of boats, bicycles or cars. It never included vandalism. It certainly never included direct disobedience of a directive obviously made to protect our lives. That'd be idiotic and as momma said, she didn't raise any fools.
It may have included small amounts of alcohol snuck out of a parent's basement. But that's about it.
I had an older cousin who joined the then Park District Police right after serving in World War Two. Forty years later he retired after a successful CPD career.
He used to talk about the difference between "rogues" and "villains". He was raised in Ireland during the depression after being born here and likely picked up the lingo there.
A rogue is usually a young dumbass doing something stupid that might get themselves or their friends in trouble or worse. Usually not bad kids, just young and dumb.
A villain is a hardcore criminal with little or no redeeming value.
These kids seemed to be rogues. Most kids, particularly males, do some really stupid dangerous stuff at one point or another. Usually no long term harm comes from it.
This time the results were different. I never stole or borrowed a paddleboat, but I do recall some stupidity as an experienced youthful traffic offender.
I really wish you hadn't run this. However, unlike Monique Bond or some of the dumbasses who post here I realize that there is a reason the First Amendment is the "First" in the Bill of Rights.
Now if there is a lawsuit then my opinion would change, but right now all I see is grieving families dealing with their loss.
At this point trying to make some larger point other than "kids do stupid stuff" seems wrong.
I wish the families well in what is going to be a hellish few years. I buried a sister just out of her teens who died in an accident and I wish that pain on no family.
We all know the deal. Nothing more needs to be said. The "children" are never responsible. There should have been chains and armed guards 24-7 to prevent "kids from being kids" and now they will have to pay for being so irresponsible as not to have taken that action.
Watch this prophecy come to fruition. One of the lawyers that has been "marked for death" will file a lawsuit faster than Clark Kent can change in a phone booth. He will be looking for the deep pockets involved so that those families from the westside can claim a win in the lawsuit lottery. Look out YMCA, you're going down. Look out little boat manufacturer. Look out Chgo Board of Ed. Look out teachers, advisors, chaperons, groundskeepers, or anybody who ever drove by this place because the ambulance chasers beepers all went off at the same time.
Anonymous said...
Personal Responsibility??
Sorry to hear that the actions of these future leaders of the community resulted in their deaths but sometimes there is consequences to breaking the rules, or not heeding the rules.
11/16/2008 12:19:00 AM
Come on now...have a little compassion about the loss of life Officer! Just kids excited to see something outside the neighborhood and wanting to have a nice time... not a reason to rellish in their deaths.
slumtimes said today that the deceased were at least 75 ft off shore
Fuck these people and their "blame game".
This was a tragedy all the way around. These guys were teenagers doing what teenagers do. It could have been your kid or even mine when they were teens. This is how teens think sometimes...by making terrible decisions. Sadly, their OWN CHOICE cost them their lives.
Mark my words when the law suit comes out, "those boats are nothing more than an attractive nuisance".
Two words that lawyers use to shift the blame to a jury that makes the owners out as the bad guys.
the best is there is absolute no grounds for a lawsuit!
The posters decrying SCC for posting this (not to speak for SCC, but in my opinion) are missing the point of this post.
It was a tragic situation, I sympathize with their loved ones...UNTIL...they begin to blame the establishment, the white man, racist boat securing policies, etc. for their children disobeying rules and going to great lengths to take others property and use it without authorization. Kids will be kids, but the loss of any sense of accountability and the adoption of the "my existence is someone else's responsiblity" that the black culture has fostered gets so very old.
If affirmative action and white dominated government have worked well enough that a black man is the most powerful man in the United States of America, isn't it time to begin to demand some accountablity from the rest of the community? YES WE CAN.
This has nothing to do with race, kids will be kids and do stupid things. The ultimate issue is assuming responsibility. Some people are so accustomed to blaming others for everything, and getting paid off if the process, that it's just ingrained in the "culture"...
Many parents have absolved themselves of raising their children, this is the fruit of their labor.
Young people today have no boundaries. There are no repercussions for ones actions,(except when they do something dumb enough to get themselves killed) no punishment, no fear.
On the other hand, society tries to micromanage kids lives to such an extent that young people have no idea which way is up, which way is down, what is right, or what is wrong.
Take your pick, but nobody seems to feel accountable for their own actions anymore. A friend who is a railroad engineer, has a saying about people who drive around railroad crossing gates, they possess no self preservation skills.
I call it the self-culling herd.
This was a sad event. My sympathies go out to the love one's of these youths.
Who's to Blame?
Maybe its just the Spirit of Youth.
"Tonight is what it means to be Young"
Sorry for the loss but people need to start taking responsibility for their own actions or the actions their children commit and stopping blaming everyone else... Maybe Barrack can change this mentality, I doubt it, once its mentioned by him they will call him uncle tom... Look how they lashed out at Bill Cosby when he spoke the truth.
No matter what you do, you cannot prevent stupidity.
To the Holier-Than-Thou commenter, yes, I pushed the limit when I was young. I did things that were illegal. I tested society's limits. And if I had gotten killed, the media would not have rushed to blame someone else. I would have been painted for the fool I was.
Not today. there is no accountability and no responsibility in today's society. Somebody else is always to blame. Not Babymomma, not Babydaddy. Shit, they don't even call themselves Mothers and Fathers any more. Fathers and mothers sacrifice for, teach, guide, and discipline.
There was a similar Law and Order episode. This might be an instance of life imitating art imitating life. And, if you think there will be no lawsuts, I have this piece of land, currently under water, but it has great promise and can be yours for, say, how much you got?
My sympathies to the families, but kids do stupid things of which most are lucky enough to survive, but a small number do not catch the luck. Very tragic, very sad. My condolences.
Sorry for the loss, especially the one kid who went in to tried to save the other two.
This was call, "An Ethical Leadership Retreat." This was as hard an ethics lesson as can be taught.
As far as law suits go, since this is not Cook County, I would hope a local jury would give them nothing.
"Come on now...have a little compassion about the loss of life Officer! Just kids excited to see something outside the neighborhood and wanting to have a nice time... not a reason to rellish in their deaths.
11/16/2008 07:55:00 AM"
The only people 'relishing' in these preventable deaths are the ones looking to cash in on them.
Was there no responsibility for the parents of these 'children' to teach their offspring to swim?
Or to teach their offspring to not panic, when faced with an unexpectedly perilous situation?
Or to teach their offspring to think BEFORE they act?
Or to teach their offspring to understand that there are REASONS for every rule, albeit, sometimes not reasons that are obvious to the less thoughtful?
Or to teach their offspring that if you don't know that you know what you're doing, don't do anything?
Or any responsibility for these 'children' to have a minimal level of the survival instinct to think for themselves?
As long as people indulge in the pathetic excuse making, (which, effectively, encourages stupidity), by avoiding, at all costs, identifying and determining the cause of events such as this one, all in the name of not playing 'the blame game', events such as this one will continue to occur.
Thoughtful human beings learn from their mistakes, with the more thoughtful also learning from the mistakes of others.
Determining and identifying the points, in a sequence of decisions/actions, which have led to an undesirable result, is a prerequisite to not repeating the same, or similiar, flawed sequence.
'THINK before you ACT' seems to not have been a lesson learned by the young men who drowned.
Was it ever a lesson anyone attempted to teach them?
Mama of one of those youths that drowned was on radio today complaining:
Boats should have been chained.
They should have been told not to take them out.
CPS did not notify her until 24 hours after the incident.
Not once did anyone say that the kids screwed up (as kids will do).
Anonymous said...
The kids, and their parents, have never been taught personal responsibility. It is NEVER their fault, it is always someone else's fault.
Obama falls into this category.
11/16/2008 12:51:00 AM
More dumb shit, responsiblity a simple word not so simple to teach!
Some family members have questioned why the boats weren't chained down.
---------------
If they were chained and it happened it would be: "why weren't there two chains?"
If there were two chains, it would be: "why weren't they chained and in a garage?"
If they were two chains and they were in a garage, it would be: "why wasn't there a security guard there?"
It's all about not being accountable for some dreadful decisions, finding a place to lay blame, and hitting the ghetto lottery in the face of tragedy.
And while tragic, they have no one to blame but themselves.
Prayers to the families for their suffering.
I'd have to think a 2 am cruise along the Fox River in November would be a low priority for anyone. But lets see how the lawyers frame this negligence when it goes to court. Hey, even when we were kids, when we fucked up, we fucked up. Nobody's fault but their own.
c'mon scc be honest you snuck girls from mccauley down in your parents basement for a game of spin the bottle while sipping on a brew. We all did stuff!!! You can't fool me buddy!!!
Anonymous said...
the best is there is absolute no grounds for a lawsuit!
11/16/2008 09:24:00 AM
***********************************
EXCUSE ME???? No grounds?? Well, you are obviously not a shyster lawyer! All THEY look for in a lawsuit is a source of money; ANY SOURCE AND EVERY SOURCE...Grounds for a lawsuit has nothing to do with anything...before this is over, I can see the following defendants in a lawsuit by these kids parents: The Board of Ed., the "camp", the boat manufacturer, the workers who removed the boat plugs and their employers, the "chaperones" (assuming they have $$$), the parents of whichever kid had the idea to take the boats to begin with, and probably the local police for not preventing the tragedy.
Having grounds for a lawsuit is only a bonus for lawyers. Without it, its a crapshoot. Throw some shit against the wall and see what sticks. Its time our legal system adopt the concept of loser pays. Until then, we will continue to have a legal system that is the laughing stock of the world!!!!
Come on now...have a little compassion about the loss of life Officer! Just kids excited to see something outside the neighborhood and wanting to have a nice time... not a reason to rellish in their deaths.
11/16/2008 07:55:00 AM
I never said I'm an officer.
I have no glee from the deaths of these young men.
I do however have contempt for the families singing the praises of these young men, yet excluding, responsibility, as one of their praises.
Leaders take responsibility for their actions. Sadly, these young men can't. Maybe though, their families can, by not blaming everyone else.
It was a tragic accident, yes it may have been prevented by having the boats chained down. Who is to say that the young men wouldn't have broken the chains. They had already broken the rules of curfew, and disregarded the camp directors instructions to stay away from the river. We do know, that had the young men followed these rules, they would be alive.
So I could say that the parents should blame themselves, for not raising their children to obey rules and to have respect for others property, But I won't.
It was a tragic accident.
Why wasn't there a fence around the river?
Why didn't they drain the river for the winter?
Why don't they have lights lighting the river?
Why don't they offer free boat rides with a guide?
etc.
"More dumb shit, responsiblity a simple word not so simple to teach!
11/16/2008 02:11:00 PM"
Sure it is.
Just no so simple to learn, if an individual's instinct for survival is minimal or absent.
When you've just inhaled a lungful of water, it's very close to being too late to learn anything, other than dying.
Holy Lead Me Down the River Batman!!!
Seems more like thieves-in-the- night. Anti-social-leadership was demonstrated here my friends.
Sneaking out after midnight and hustling boats to escape to where? And where would these idiots leave the boats after their joy ride? Face it is was their time to go down the river.
Some of us go early others much much later. But we all end up dead.
Perhaps if individuals held themselves more accountable for their own actions and stop trying to blame others for their misfortunes they might have figure out what I already know.
Simply...you can take measures to delay and postponed the enviably of your fate.
God works in mysterious ways.
Perhaps the hand of GOD reached down into the river or in this case, pushed someone down to the bottom for a reason only HE knows. So why question any of it?
Supposedly, 16 of these kids dragged boats 150 ft. to the river and tried to go for a cruise. They had all been told NOT to go near the river. 2 guys were able to launch and get their boat about 75 feet out into the river before it began to take on too much water and go down. Only 1 of their friends tried to help and lost his life in the process. The 13 others ran like hell and tried to pretend they weren't involved.
This was supposed to be an "Ethical Leadership Retreat". Obviously, the guys that ran leaving their friends to die were unscathed by the lessons on leadership. Yes, as kids we all did stupid things, but usually stuck together especially if the shit hit the fan. If these guys were the best and brightest at their school, the school and neighborhood have a real problem. As we speak, there are guys the age of some of these kids and just a little older serving in combat arms in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places. They are the ones who will be the leaders of tomorrow.
I feel sympathy for the families of the deceased but these kids fouled up big time. It is nobody's fault but their own. In the real world there are consequences for not following orders and directions. Unfortunately, these kids learned the hard way, but it is no reason to sue the YMCA, the Chicago Public shools or anyone else.
Seriously . . . kids do stupid things at great risk to their lives. That's what they do. They're not mature and they don't think things through. This hasn't changed in the last 10,000 years, but people have great faith that it will suddenly change one day.
We ALL did stupid things as teenagers, particularly us boys. I came close to death several times. Some people take bigger risks than others, but we all take risks.
There's no way that school or whatever it was could have secured things so well that no teenager could have found a way to kill himself. That is what they do, and they are good at it.
This was a "leadership" retreat? Ahem. Don't "leaders" pretty much abide by rules?
Time to sue mother nature for inventing water!!
If you can't swim don't steal boats!!!!
Idiots...
No sympathy here.
The posters on this blog never cease to amaze me...these were CHILDREN! Children are rule breakers and risk takers across the board. Adults are so damn hypocritical as if none of you break any rules and never take risks. Weeell I have a little bit of bad news...thats a lie! If I had a dollar for every MARRIED policeman who openly breaks the rule of forsaking others and risks getting caught cheating I would be ready for retirement. Those dollars would add up quicker than deferred comp! So get over your perfect selves and let the families grieve and the deceased rest in peace.
"The posters on this blog never cease to amaze me...these were CHILDREN!"
Excerpt from the Tribune website:
"The victims were identified as Jimmie Avant, 18, Melvin Choice III, 17 and Adrian Jones, 16.
The three teens, two seniors and a junior at North Lawndale College Prep, a charter high school at 1615 S. Christiana Ave., were on the last day of an eight-day leadership retreat at Camp Algonquin, 1889 Cary Rd., said Julie Didier, a spokeswoman for the Algonquin-Lake in the Hills Fire Protection District."
16, 17 and 18 year-olds are not children.
I had a job when I was 14.
I also had enough sense, at age 14, not to panic when a small sailboat I was in capsized, on a 1 mile wide, 300+ foot deep lake, about a 1,000 yards from the shore. I swam to safety. Because I didn't panic and had learned to swim when I was 10 years old.
If you want to argue that these three young men had no more sense than small children, that's your privilege. I prefer to give their memories enough credit by saying they fucked up and leave it at that.
Lets analyze this.
Not one adult was assigned to stay awake to insure the safety of the so called children.
CHILD NEGLECT/INDAGERMENT! Which resulted in a death (felony)
The children knew they were not allowed to sneek out of the building, but chose to do it anyway. And were warned not to go near the river.
CURFEW VIOLATION!
The boats were stacked in an area far from the water because the boating season has long passed. The boats were also in an area with a sign posted AUTHORIZED PERSONNEL ONLY & NO TRESSPASSING.
CRIMINAL TRESSPASS!
We must also keep in mind that this facility is in an area that they don't lock their doors or their boats and people don't take what does not belong to them.
THEFT OVER! (felony)
I have also been told that beer and pot were beleived to have been involved as well.
MINOR DRINKING AND PCS!
Those boats have WARNING labels all over them and it is ilegal to be on a boat without a life vest.
VIOLATION OF THE BOATING SAFTEY LAWS & REGULATIONS!
No lets get this right.
A 16 year old kid sneeks out of his house at 0100 hours after drinking beer and smoking a blunt. Enters your yard, steals your car, crashes into a tree and kills his two buddies riding in the car. You as the OWENER of the car are LIABLE???
Numerous CRIMES including several FELONY CRIMES were committed by these honor roll students. However the Parents and the Press want to blame the owner of the boats and the school board. Here comes the getto lottery pay out. $.$$$.$$$.$$
WTF???
"Weeell I have a little bit of bad news...thats a lie! If I had a dollar for every MARRIED policeman who openly breaks the rule of forsaking others and risks getting caught cheating I would be ready for retirement. Those dollars would add up quicker than deferred comp! So get over your perfect selves....
11/16/2008 09:41:00 PM"
Sounds like someone couldn't hang on to her husband.......
Or, maybe, someone else could.....
"...More dumb shit. Responsibility a simple word. Not so simple to teach..."
No one said that bringing a child into this world would be simple and easy. It is our duty to teach our children responsibility.
"...there are guys the age of some of these kids and just a little older serving in combat arms in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places..."
Amen. I was working full-time when I was 16. Machine shop, electrical...could be dangerous. Other people counted on me to do things right so that they wouldn't get hurt or killed when they hit the "On" button, and vice versa.
Today? [derisive snort] Someone can not only nearly broadside you in traffic, but they want emotional support too. "I saw you. I saw you. I was going to stop. You didn't have to jam on your brakes!" They absolutely can't confront the possibility that they might have screwed up.
Have a look at a child's microscope set these days -- even the slides are soft (nearly useless) plastic. Safety! A kid grows up not even knowing how to handle a piece of glass the size of a postage stamp. Then he turns 16 and is handed a set of car keys. [shudder]
My high school senior class (back around 1873, it feels like today) went canoeing on the Fox, possibly from the same camp -- but in the daylight. It's a river. It flows. It can be turbulent. It has rocks and snags and floating debris. It doesn't care who you are or what you think.
Just now (3 AM Monday) I heard on WBBM AM-780 radio news that --
Chicago Public Schools chief Arne Duncan has stated that THE TAXPAYERS WILL BE COVERING THE FUNERAL EXPENSES FOR THESE THREE, as well as for "psychological counseling" for one of their sisters.
Here's the story on the WBBM web site, but it does not include this statement. Perhaps later versions will pick that up.
http://www.wbbm780.com/Distraught
-Mom-Wanted-Officials-to-
Personally-Disc/3327162
Yes, this did have to be addressed. Some good comments here, and some hard lessons.
Please be careful -- be mindful, everyone. Some mistakes can't ever be fixed...
New law 01 jan 2009 ... It states that while in the commission of a crime, one loses any and all rights to file a lawsuit.
just kidding.
"You're going to need a bigger boat"
The posters on this blog never cease to amaze me...these were CHILDREN! Children are rule breakers and risk takers across the board. Adults are so damn hypocritical as if none of you break any rules and never take risks. Weeell I have a little bit of bad news...thats a lie! If I had a dollar for every MARRIED policeman who openly breaks the rule of forsaking others and risks getting caught cheating I would be ready for retirement. Those dollars would add up quicker than deferred comp! So get over your perfect selves and let the families grieve and the deceased rest in peace.
What??? someone has serious issues....
Hi People, Missy here again.
Please do not throw rocks people. Look what my Lawyer husband had done to me. Kids are just kids, and Men are ................
Missy- 018 district
(Parking ticket guru)
11/16/2008 09:41:00 PM:
Thanks be to you, clueless friend. No doubt no truer words have ever been spoken by you.
These young adults, through no fault of their own, were drawn into the cold night to those landlocked three hundred pound watercraftage by some strange force. Let us pray that we will not learn a damned thing from this tragedy, and shall instead use it as a shining example of how not to accept responsibility for one's actions and get free $$$ in the process. And finally, may we all pray to Our God that in spite of the facts, a Court of Law in McHenry County will feel shame for our rambunctious inner city peeps and shalt place the ultimate blame for this incident upon the shoulders of the stupid country rednecks.
Let the healing and extortion begin!
Amen.
Mama of one of those youths that drowned was on radio today complaining:
Boats should have been chained.
==========================
Perhaps the youths should have been chained.
The parents, the high school and the leadership academy should be very proud of these excellent youths, however, it is a shame that the parents didn't have them learn to swim as a member of the Scouts, or the YMCA, or at the Park District, but their deaths should not be in vain. The example they set could save other youths from stealing winterized boats and losing their lives. The new program could be called SWIMMED, See Why I Met My Early Death.
The 1st lawsuit filed today, bet on 2 more to come.
17 year old neglected by lack of sufficient supervision.
Was this kid retarded?
Or is it just his parents?
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