Saturday, April 18, 2009

Glock Issue?

  • The Milwaukee Police Department found that there is a serious problem with its guns.

    Officer Vidal Colon was injured over the weekend in a shootout, in which his gun jammed.

    [...] Both men were hit, and police have been investigating the shootout. They learned that one bullet casing had stovepiped, or jammed, in the officer's weapon.

  • "We had experienced a number of issues on the range with our issued Glock model 22, .40 caliber duty pistol magazines, which represents 45 percent of our issued weapons," said Flynn in the memo.

    The chief became aware of the problem in January 2008. Since then, "Glock has replaced 2,700 pistol magazines at no cost to the Milwaukee Police Department," said Flynn in the memo.

Replacing 2,700 magazines at no cost suggests a flaw of some sort, at least to us. Has this issue been resolved in the Glocks the Department is requiring new hires and transition shooters to buy? This is the first we've heard of this.

Labels:

84 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I recommend the Sig P226R or the P229R.

4/18/2009 12:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old problem on old guns. The Milwaukee Exempts I am sure are just as aware as ours here. I am sure they take care of their equipment on a tight budget and don't relace things that need to be replace due to cost. This was an old problem on old Glocks and I am sure the Chief missed the old recall or the department din't really care. If they are anything like us they saved a dime at a cost tothe officer.


Just because one guys gun stove piped doesn't mean we are back to a major issue. This was an old one. Bad mag springs were the culprit back then. I can only assume the department doesn't change out the springs on their mags regularly. Can you see ours doing that? Tons of different things can cause a stove pipe. Glock I am sure just went the extra mile to replace all the mag springs just to be sure the officers were not left out du to the departments shortcomings on equipment upkeep. Anyone in the Glock world knows this was a problem some time ago. This "Chief" isn't much of a Chief if he has never heard of the problem til now.

KNee jerk reaction to an unfortunate situation I am sure. Glock just is going the extar step as a great company should.

4/18/2009 12:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

daley's getting a "deal" on the defective weapons. Gotta save $$ for da olympics.

4/18/2009 12:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i ve had my G22 for 6 years, and no problems yet....

4/18/2009 01:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glocks in the 40 & 45 calber has had an ongoing problem with case head expansion for quite a while now.
Their refusal to acknowledge it and retool precludes any recalls and therefore no multi-million dollar loss or bad p.r.

read up...its there.

4/18/2009 01:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes, the department does not have to pay because the department only lets recruits purchase the 9mm glock which at this time has no flaws. after on the street, the recruits can upgrade to a better gun such as the 45 or 40... so again the city eeks out of trouble.

4/18/2009 01:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

.40 caliber Glocks have been problematic from Day 1. They were designed around the 9mm frame used in the model 17 and 19 without making additional adjustments for the increased power of the cartridge.

The 9mm Glocks work great because they are the originals and therefore the most time has been spent on developing and refining them.

4/18/2009 01:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Indiana State Police, they had HUGE problems with the G22, the full size .40 cal pistol.(GOOGLE) Glock plays games like calling things an "upgrade" when "recall" might be more accurate. New hires with 9mm will probably be ok. The .40 is such a pain in the ass to shoot, I would choose the .45 or 9mm over it any day. Also google search for "Glock kabooms" or "KBs" as they call them, for more interesting reading. All of these issues seem to involve the G22 full size .40 pistol. I would NEVER chose the .40 due to its sharp, nasty recoil impulse and increased slide velocity. One Glock that has worked very well for numerous state police depts. is the .45 GAP, a reduced size .45 cartridge that fits on the frame of the 9mm, giving good power without the huge grip frame of the regular .45ACP Glocks. New York, Georgia and other state police have been very happy with the .45 GAP, though they dont have large capacity , 8-10 rounds depending on the model.

4/18/2009 01:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's almost like they look for shit that doesn't work so they can issue it to us. Either we'll be driving it, talking into it or pointing it.

Ya think Weis is trying to tell us something?

4/18/2009 02:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'mon...even I should know I should change the spring in my 229 Sig....after a thousand rounds or so thru the gun...if you do so, and the weapon is properly oiled and maintained....then you should have no problems whatsoever...

4/18/2009 04:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ISP here,

We've been using the Glock 22 now for years. I, personally, have NEVER had a jamb, stove pipe, or malfunction while shooting the weapon. We qualify 4x a year and I practice a few times a year also. I don't recall anyone else have any type of problem with the gun. We shoot different ammo for qualifications and duty. Maybe it was an ammo issue or Glock redesigned/changed something on the mag. I have 100% confidence in the gun.

4/18/2009 06:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Stick with the Glock 21 or 21SF in .45 ACP.

4/18/2009 06:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Which springs should be changed on a semi-automatic and how often?

4/18/2009 06:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I qualifying last year Randle who works the range, sold me new springs for my sig mags. He was saying sig recommends you replace them every couple of years. I think they were only a couple of bucks each. The department needs to let guys know that they should be replaced.

4/18/2009 06:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1st off and most importantly prayers to the wounded officer. The article was vauge as to how he is doing. Is he alright? His WELL BEING is the most important part of this story and the press (again) seems to care more about placing blame.

Glocks in .40 &.45 CAN fail to extract. Thats CAN not Will, meaning the they are prone to it not that it happens every time. The design is better suited to 9mm. NOT a flaw, its just suited better to 9mm.

This could be lots of things among them failure of the weapon, shooter error or poor maintenance of the weapon. I dont know, I wont speculate, I wasnt there.

As the saying goes "all pistols fail, Glocks fail less".

Striker fired weapons are superior to the DAO BS they have handicapped us with for years. That is a fact.

4/18/2009 07:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My old S and W model ten has never stovepiped.

The second Ruger Speed-six I carry under the vest has never failed either.

4/18/2009 07:27:00 AM  
Blogger Dan said...

My SIG P230 .380 stovepipes when I use aftermarket mags. New mags from direct from SIG appear to be as shitty as my Pro-Mag magazines.

You cant even trust factory shit anymore.

4/18/2009 07:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why not just replace your duty mags every year? Also with all this nonsense about caliber of your weapon, does it really matter what you shoot someone with at a 3 yd. range? Most shootings are at real short range. Won't a nine at about this range work just fine due to its high velocity?

4/18/2009 07:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Talk to an Illinois State Trooper...they have had the Glock .40 for years. Dont forget to TRY IT BEFORE YOU BUY IT...This means you can RENT these pistols at many suburban public ranges. These guns are dirty, abused, what better test of reliabilty than that ?

4/18/2009 08:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think a good choice for us is the Springfield Armory XD-M.

4/18/2009 08:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have the Glock 27 .40 cal and to this date I've never had a problem. I go to the range once a month and shoot anywhere from 250 to 500 rounds. Keep it clean and properly oiled.

4/18/2009 08:31:00 AM  
Blogger Rue St. Michel said...

Springfield Arms - all the way!

4/18/2009 08:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sound like more BS from self annointed range geniuses.

4/18/2009 09:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Glocks in the 40 & 45 calber has had an ongoing problem with case head expansion for quite a while now.
Their refusal to acknowledge it and retool precludes any recalls and therefore no multi-million dollar loss or bad p.r.

read up...its there.

4/18/2009 01:18:00 AM

BS.Another KB believer.Glock M22 since 1990 no problems.G21 since 1998 no problems.

4/18/2009 09:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My S&W model 66 never jams!

4/18/2009 09:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you really think this administration cares about your safety? It's up to us to take care of ourselves, our own and each other.

4/18/2009 09:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

there are two different grain amounts of ammo with regards to the .40 caliber. As a range officer in a local suburban department, we had to downgrade the ammo to a 165 grain ammo for the glocks where every other .40 cal could use the 180 grain. Glocks barrels were having problems with the larger grain bullet. ever since we switched, the glocks have been working fine. I still like the springfield xd series personally, but i still have my first sig too.

4/18/2009 09:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am one of the old goats out here that can still carry a revolver. Never a problem and precision accuracy. Give me the 6 shooter any day. Does anyone know if we will be able to keep the revolvers after the 1st of the yr?

4/18/2009 10:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Former Firearms Instructor (Academy) said...

There has always been a big problem with those who are timid or lacking of experience, especially with polymer-framed pistols.

You have to provide enough force OPPOSITE the recoil, to allow the complete recoil of the slide. All pistols are "recoil operated." If the shooter is limp-wristed, (for lack of a better term) the slide will only cycle partially to the rear, then the ejection of the expended cartridge does not occur. The extractor pulls the expended case partially out, and possibly enough for the breech face to reach and strip the next cartridge in the magazine. The next cartridge can even be partially stripped from the magazine.

This can cause malfunctions like a stove-pipe, a double-feed, or just the empty case re-inserted back into the chamber, THEN your next squeeze of the trigger causes the gun to go "CLICK!!!"

If there is a lack of force applied to the frame, insufficient to alllow for the proper recoil, this is going to occur.

I don't know what the circumstances are in Miliwaukee, but this is a common occurence as I said before.

In the heat of the moment, Murphy's law makes this worse.

Practice often, care for your weapons, and if you have a polymer framed gun and you experience this, LOCK OUT YOUR STRONG ARM ELBOW.

If your practicing enough, and you have a mechanical problem with your weapon, it's better to find it while practicing...isn't it?

These problems can occur with any pistol. Remember your "immediate action drills!"...

TAP-RACK-ASSESS...

TAP- the bottom of your magazine-to insure it is fully seated.

RACK- your slide forcefully to the rear.

ASSESS- the situation.


If it is a stove-pipe and you can see the expended cartridge sticking out of the ejection port, OR--- if it's a double-feed,

LOCK- your slide to the rear,

STRIP- the magazine out of the weapon,

CYCLE- your slide (twice to be sure) This SHOULD clear the malfunction,

then...

TAP-(actually re-insert a loaded magazine)

RACK

ASSESS

Next time your in the area, or at the Academy, ask a Firearms Instructor to show you these malfunctions. And refresh your knowledge clearing these.

An once of prevention...

We use our cuffs quite often, but some of us may never get into a shooting. Time to refresh your skillz!!!

be safe out there.

4/18/2009 10:33:00 AM  
Blogger Creatively Armed said...

I've put thousands of rounds through both my 19 and 27 and I've never had a jam or any issue. To this day I still haven't cleaned my 19 except for running the nylon brush through it once or twice a day later.

4/18/2009 10:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have had my Glock 22 since 1990. I have fired over 15,000 rounds through the weapon. It was suggested that I replace the recoil guide spring at about 8500rnds. Never had a single misfire, or jam. The spring that was replaced was working fine, but Glock suggested a replacement and did it for free. The weapon works just fine, but then again I clean the gun after shooting it. The springs in my magazines have never failed. I do own 6 magazines for the weapon, rotate them for use and do not leave them stored loaded, which only weakens the spring but this is for any magazine for any weapon. As for the recoil of the weapon, I do not notice any differance than when shooting a .45 automatic, of which I have several. Like any other weapon before purchasing, borrow/rent one and see if you like the weapon system. Just my thoughts on the Glock.

4/18/2009 11:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glocks will stovepipe if you do not have a firm grip when firing, the recoil action does not complete unless you have a firm grip to action the slide completely. This is an ergonomic function of the glock design.

4/18/2009 11:48:00 AM  
Anonymous The Box Chevy Phantom said...

hmmm...

we do seem to recall glock having issues with k-b's with the .40 & 10mm and .45 some years back... it seemed to be an issue with the design of the chamber to support the case head.

(no absolution for the end users, reloaded ammo was sometimes a culprit too for k-b's/spontaneous self-disassembly)

from what we see that problem has been addressed and the major caliber models have chambers that fully support now. one reason for our purchase of a g30 to compliment the xd tactical (boo-hiss on springfield for not producing a sub 4" 10 rd + xd...) on duty and for off duty carry.

it's getting warm, we're very short on manpower in the districts and the animals know it... invest some time & sweat at the range and be sure your body armor is current and consider bringing a couple extra mags to work... it's your hide, how much do you value it?

...better a bench trial by a judge (anything is better than judgement by jury in cook county) than to be carried by six...

stay safe

4/18/2009 12:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glock=Black Colored Tupperware.

4/18/2009 01:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Glock was never carefully studied. Those that manage the range were solely impressed with the name and less with using the firearm on the range.

The gunsmiths that are consultants to the military frequently advise that weapons should have at least 2000 rounds shot threw them before they are even considered.

4/18/2009 01:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

screw the glock, go with the springfield xd45

4/18/2009 01:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'mon...even I should know I should change the spring in my 229 Sig....after a thousand rounds or so thru the gun...
---------------------------------
so you change it every month?

4/18/2009 01:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A stovepipe jammed him up that bad?

Tap, Rack, Bang.

Fucking train for it.

4/18/2009 02:23:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Glock 40's are notorious for breaking , jamming , and problems. It's a given with the. 40.........!

4/18/2009 03:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WHY BY A TOYS R US GUN ( PLASTIC GLOCK) WHEN YOU CAN BUY A REAL GUN (MADE OF STEEL).

4/18/2009 05:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've put 1000s of rds through my Glock 23 .40. I've used reloads for practice and carry only quality factory loaded ammo. I've never had a FTF or FTE BUT {here's the big qualifier} I make sure I clean it after every time I fire it and change my mag springs every 2 years whether they need it or not.

There are only 2 kinds of firearms, those that have never failed and those that will. Even revolvers. Get enough crap under the star and it won't close up properly.

4/18/2009 05:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us have the guns we wan't. Maybe just control the cal.

4/18/2009 06:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You need to practice malfunction drills so when the time comes you have the muscle memory to clear them...when practicing at the range load a snap cap so you can get the feel for it.

4/18/2009 06:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My SIG P230 .380 stovepipes when I use aftermarket mags. New mags from direct from SIG appear to be as shitty as my Pro-Mag magazines.

You cant even trust factory shit anymore.


Had one of these years ago and it jammed all the time...no slide release button made clearing the jams very difficult and in a life or death situation very dangerous. Sold it because of the problem.

4/18/2009 06:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The cop got off 13 out of 15...whats not to like ?

4/18/2009 06:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like Glocks, but not the .40. Google Glock and Kaboom and find out why. HINT, they tend to grenade.

4/18/2009 07:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thought it might also be worthwhile to mention that Springfield Arms is having a silent recall on a some of the magazines. I own a .45-XD (purchased about a year ago) and I had problems with malfunctions (the problem was the gun, not me, confirmed by range staff) as well as the magazine not falling out of the magazine well when reloading. I called the field rep at Springfield and she sent me 3 new mags at no cost. Look at your magazines, at the base of the magazine near the magazine plate there should be a Springfield Arms stamp. If there is not then you have the potentially problematic magazines.

4/18/2009 07:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you have to buy a Glock, go 9mm. The Glock frame and slide was actually engineered for it. The .40 Glocks were rushed into production as a marketing stunt, because someone in Smyrna thought that it would be a great coup to have a gun chambered for .40S&W before S&W did. Glock never got around to re-engineering the frame for the increased pressure and slide velocity of the .40.

Glock's .45 models don't seem to have so many problems, being that it's a lower-pressure and lower-velocity cartridge.

Speaking as a certified armorer on the Glock, S&W M&P, and P-series SIGs, I'd feel okay with the 9mm Glocks but would not be so happy with the .40's.

4/18/2009 07:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For what it is worth, I'm with the ISP. I'm issued a Glcok 22 as all our equip and uniforms are issued except socks and underwear. My Glock has never malfunctioned. Range officer tells us that the most common reasons for Glocks messing up is
1. Too much Oil
2. limp wristed when firing.

4/18/2009 08:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Crosman or Daisy BB guns only!

4/18/2009 08:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

THANKS SGT WANNABE HAMILTON!!! GLOCKS ARE A STUPID IDEA-SEMPER FI

4/18/2009 08:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The MPD officer is on the mend and so is the human rectum. MPD was in the process of swapping the mags out, and as a result of this gunfight he has ordered the Academy armory to stay open 24/7 until all officers have received new mags.

4/19/2009 12:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What about the 45GAP? Anybody have any info about that round? Have there been any kabooms with that round like there have been with the .40?

4/19/2009 08:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the guy that said the story about the .40S&W going "kaboom" in Glocks is all BS, I suggest you do a little research. It is and has been a problem with that round in the Glocks. And while conducting your research, ask Mike Keefe in 016 who WAS a range guy until he got into a beef with the Sgt. and has probably forgotten more about guns that you or I will ever know,what model Glock HE bought and why? Here's a hint. It wasn't a 22 or 23. If your convinced you MUST have a Glock, get one in either 9mm.or 45ACP.

4/19/2009 08:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i own a Smith and Wesson M&P .45 .. great fit in my hand..never had a problem with it ? anybody out there every hear of any problems? or potential problems ?

4/19/2009 09:01:00 AM  
Blogger Too Many Dummies said...

"Practice often, care for your weapons, and if you have a polymer framed gun and you experience this, LOCK OUT YOUR STRONG ARM ELBOW."
____________________________

Excellent advice lad!

4/19/2009 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glock is a very good and reliable gun from 9mm to .45 cal. Stove pipe can happen at anytime with any gun. No matter what gun you carry you better know how to clear it and do it quickly as we all know. The only issue with the glock is that is a bit picky with reload ammo. Range shooting if using reloads you will notice stove pipe on all cals.

4/19/2009 12:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was looking to buy a Springfield Arm .45. Anyone have any advise (pros / cons). I currently carry a S and W 45

4/19/2009 02:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BERETTA 9MM IS THE WAY TO GO. ALSO S/W WAY BETTER THEN GLOCK.

4/19/2009 03:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Kaboom is an internet phenomenon that swept through the blogosphere. It ccurred to several Mfg's guns, but being Glock is the"STANDARD" it received the most attention. The kabooms were due to ammunition issues not Glock issues. IT was caused due to bullet set back. IT has happened, but the reason all the hype with the Glock is because the the Glock reputation and the fact the gun actually destructed. The problem is with 40cal ammo. The size of the round and the steep feedramps cause the bullet to get pushed back in the casing after numerous re-chamberings of the same round. This happens with rifle ammo as well. Always dump your round after 5-10 loads or recycle it to the bottom of your 3rd mag.

As to specifically the Glock 22 PRETTY MUCH EVERY MFG USES THE 9mm PLATFORM ON THEIR 40Cal. Just the way it goes. The 40cal round causes very high chamber pressures and comes out like a rocket. That is why the gun kicks so violently. The 40cal is a 'MANS" gun. It kicks violently and requires a shooter that knows how to fire it. Limpwristing ths gun WILL CAUSE MAILFUNCTIONS As with any semi-auto.

The 40cal was originally designed for the FBI to have/deliver the punch of the 45 but with a greater ammo capacity w/o being overly sized and still concealable.

The Glock 22 IS THE MOST WIDELY/COMMONLY ISSUED GLOCK in LE. It's a great gun when maintained properly as with any gun.



Springfield is also issuing a recall on its mags. Springfield has also had tons and tons of issues with the guts rusting and the in laymans terms the "pin" on the top of the frame that comes in contact first with the slide during re-assembly bending from the slide being forced on. This will cause the gun to malfunction and/or the slide to stick. That "pin" is very easy to bend so be careful.

We have seen just as many problems with Sigs and S&W's over the years down at the range. Most of the problems were with batches of the Winchester ball ammo. The primers are very tough on the and people who shoot alot really needed to replace their springs, but of course that was never brought to their attention. At least we caught it on the range.

This Milwaukee incident tragic for sure, but one malfuntion after 13rounds shoudl not create a panic with the Glock 22. The problem with mag springs and issues with mis feeds are widely related to DEPARTMENTAL ISSUED GUNS ACROSS THE NATION. A majority of police contracts are held by Glock. 2 yrs ago the numbers stated they covered 77% of the "ISSUED MARKET". SO I am sure all of us here in Chicago know what the mag spring problems are related to. DEPARTMENTAL BUDGET CRUNCHES AND LACK OF CARE FOR THEIR OFFICERS. DO NOT EVER TRUST ANYONE BUT YOURSELF TO MAINTAIN YOUR WEAPON! PERIOD! Anyone working for a department that issues you a weapon that is not brand new.......replace the guts on the fame, magazine springs and make sure it works properly. Don't rely on the department and take their word for it.

4/19/2009 07:29:00 PM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

well being a die hard beretta guy,I had occasion to test the Glock 40 and 45 pistols. not bad. Eats most ammo flawlessly but as with ANY semi auto one must(or should)

a.polish the ramp.
b.keep an eye on the mag springs,
replace when needed.
c. oil oil oil.

Note Ive had my 96FS (pictured) for 10+ years without ANY malfunctions. Mag springs should be RELAXED once a month. If they are found to be soft(spongy) replace ASAP.

Thats all for now.
L-1

4/20/2009 04:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plastic "toys" for all the kids on the job!


STEEL, AMERICAN MADE
Smith and Wesson.
From a place with a name most of us can pronounce.
Save American Jobs
Buy AMERICAN GUNS.

I traded my Glocks for a few Sigs and LOVE the 220. I also purchased a few Smith and Wessons(REAL STEEL) that shoot FLAWLESSLY at the 8500 round mark.No recalls here.Remember the guns made by Mattel?(M-16 for you wet behind the ears kids with your plastic guns and plastic holsters and hair jel. )

4/20/2009 04:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blogger lathrop one said...

well being a die hard beretta guy,I had occasion to test the Glock 40 and 45 pistols. not bad. Eats most ammo flawlessly but as with ANY semi auto one must(or should)
***********

I have a CX-4 Storm and love it. I'm surprised the department doesn't allow this, short of an M-4 which they are apparently screwing you guys out of.

4/20/2009 08:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just qualified w/ my 18 yo S&W 5943. Nevr replaced the springs in the Mags & it operated flawlessly. Keep your plastic toy malfunctioning capguns.
My trusty 9 is doing just fine.

4/20/2009 08:31:00 AM  
Anonymous An Old Sergeant said...

New York, Georgia and other state police have been very happy with the .45 GAP
=======================
The way I hear it is they got the GAPS for cheap $$ since Glock is trying to dump them or create at least some interest among civilian shooters. One of the local dealers refers to the .45GAP as the answer to a question no one asked.

4/20/2009 08:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Plastic "toys" for all the kids on the job!


STEEL, AMERICAN MADE
Smith and Wesson.
From a place with a name most of us can pronounce.
Save American Jobs
Buy AMERICAN GUNS.

I traded my Glocks for a few Sigs and LOVE the 220. I also purchased a few Smith and Wessons(REAL STEEL) that shoot FLAWLESSLY at the 8500 round mark.No recalls here.Remember the guns made by Mattel?(M-16 for you wet behind the ears kids with your plastic guns and plastic holsters and hair jel. )

4/20/2009 04:42:00 AM American made Smith's? Junk! No government would ever use them so why should you?

4/20/2009 01:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

STEEL, AMERICAN MADE
Smith and Wesson.
From a place with a name most of us can pronounce.
Save American Jobs
Buy AMERICAN GUNS.

I traded my Glocks for a few Sigs and LOVE the 220. I also purchased a few Smith and Wessons(REAL STEEL) that shoot FLAWLESSLY at the 8500 round mark.No recalls here.Remember the guns made by Mattel?(M-16 for you wet behind the ears kids with your plastic guns and plastic holsters and hair jel. )

___________________________

Hey dipshit guns are not made of steel. The don't weigh 10 lbs.......... its alloy. Have another drink old timer. Btw Smith gets it's alloy from China. Smith also has had a recall on some of its guns Recent;t the M&P rifle for the mag well being out of spec and more recently teh ppk.
Sig isn't American either. GEEEEEEESUS!

Another know nothing old time offering his infinite wisdom ased on senority rather then fact.

4/20/2009 02:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lathrop one -
Not trying to be a jag, but what up with the blue flame grips...? apparently this is not exactly a "duty carry" gun, or you work for a very very liberal dept.

4/20/2009 05:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just qualified w/ my 18 yo S&W 5943. Nevr replaced the springs in the Mags & it operated flawlessly. Keep your plastic toy malfunctioning capguns.
My trusty 9 is doing just fine.

4/20/2009 08:31:00 AM



Well Hell! With you shooting only 30 rounds a year it should be in perfect shape!

4/20/2009 05:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blaming the gun for a limp wrist??

4/21/2009 10:09:00 AM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

I just qualified w/ my 18 yo S&W 5943. Nevr replaced the springs in the Mags & it operated flawlessly. Keep your plastic toy malfunctioning capguns.
My trusty 9 is doing just fine.

4/20/2009 08:31:00 AM

You MAY want to check the spring guide shelf on your barrel. On my 4006,it wore down and the guide did not seat properly. S/W will replace the barrel free if you encounter this wear. Be safe

4/21/2009 12:43:00 PM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

i own a Smith and Wesson M&P .45 .. great fit in my hand..never had a problem with it ? anybody out there every hear of any problems? or potential problems ?

4/19/2009 09:01:00 AM

Good Choice! I have the M/P 40 and thus far there have been NO reported issues. However if you do get an issue with your M/P contact David Valenzie at smith and wesson. Good guy and will hook you right up with what you might need. (Smith and Wesson customer service manager,at the S/W website or call the toll free number on your instruction leaflet.)

4/21/2009 12:49:00 PM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

athrop one -
Not trying to be a jag, but what up with the blue flame grips...? apparently this is not exactly a "duty carry" gun, or you work for a very very liberal dept.


not taken as you being a "jag" at all. The blue grip is a Hogue annodized aluminum(like the Mag Lite) grip i bought to dress the gun up a bit. It is equipped with the rubber hogue finger grooved screw on grip for duty use. The blue is just for show.

4/21/2009 12:57:00 PM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

The point here is that we forum the ACTUAL defects of our specific weapons taking into consideration range officers input,actual user issues,recalls and peculiar defects inherent to a specific model under specific conditions. While most guns mentioned are good,any can fail and and can go kaboom. Before we all panic and berate a particular weapon,lets get the research and field test results in.
Ammo....different animal.
40: 185 grain H/P jacketed
45 230 Ball or Hydro-shock.
9mm: leave in the underwear drawer.

While some may not agree it isnt the volume of shots made its the placement that counts. But it sure does make you feel good when you hear that tink tink tink of brass hitting the ground and see the bad guy falling back.
I personally think singling out a single weapon for "universal department use" is nothing more than giving a lucrative contract or opportunity to make gobs of money to a single manufacturer. There are different people on this job(and REALLY different in 023 :))so it would stand to reason that there should be different weapons available for these people.
Im sure suzy house mouse wouldnt like to carry a Desert Eagle 50 cal,nor would the guys in the trenches in 004 want to carry a wimpy 9mm. The debate as to which brand of gun will go on for ever but I do NOT agree that only one type of hand gun be available for use. I AM for using and carrying what works for the individual officer as long as it is within the General Orders. I also agree that they should control the caliber not the weapon used.

4/21/2009 01:11:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been carrying a model 22 for 9 years now, with well in excess of 10,000 rounds through it. I've had no weapon related malfunctions in that time. The few malfunctions have all been ammo related or instances of the slide hitting the balistic sheild in training. I also carried a 9mm Glock while on active duty in Iraq. The Glock magazine is infinitly better than the 9mm Beretta. I would guess the Milw. guns are old guns with old mags. Any mag will eventually wear out if one leaves it loaded all the time. Glocks and the mags should be stripped and inspected by a factory authorized armourer once a year. Excessive carbon and brass build up inside the extractor housing can be a common cause of stovepipes.

4/21/2009 05:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Glocks are way over-rated...go with the Springfield XD's or the Sigs.....

4/21/2009 08:55:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lathrop One, do you have any actual experience with gunplay or are you just talking out of your hat? I thought so. Wimpy 9mm? Go to Winchesters site and tell me about the difference between ANY of the major calibers. There is virtually none. It's all about shot placement pal, not the caliber. If you want to carry a 40 or 45, have at it but stop making disparaging remarks about the 9. I've used it for years and it's worked out fine for me. And no, I don't mean from reading a gun rag. Only a guy that get's his info from a gun rag would make some of the comments you have been posting as of late. Now, go ahead, I know you can't wait to tell us some war stories. Borrowed from someone else no doubt.

4/21/2009 09:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lathrop 1, your a CHA security guard aren't you.

4/22/2009 06:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

here is virtually none. It's all about shot placement pal, not the caliber. If you want to carry a 40 or 45, have at it but stop making disparaging remarks about the 9. I've used it for years and it's worked out fine for me. And no, I don't mean from reading a gun rag. Only a guy that get's his info from a gun rag would make some of the comments you have been posting as of late.


Actually if you had READ his comments you would have SEEN that he mentioned shot placement and made a good argument about universal CALIBER as oppposed to a universal handgun. I doubt that the post was gleaned from a gun rag. As we all should know they are biased towards the advertisers.

4/24/2009 05:25:00 AM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

Lathrop 1, your a CHA security guard aren't you.


Why yes I am. Can hardly wait to hear the attempts at ball busting THAT answer brings.

4/24/2009 05:26:00 AM  
Blogger lathrop one said...

Lathrop One, do you have any actual experience with gunplay or are you just talking out of your hat? I thought so.


WEll actually I do have some experience with gun play. One shooting(fatal) at Midway Airport(with a 40 cal) and 2 others out side Illinois Non Fatal with a 40cal. You were saying?????? I thought so. Thanks for the try though.

4/24/2009 05:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you want to carry a 40 or 45, have at it but stop making disparaging remarks about the 9. I've used it for years and it's worked out fine for me.


When you work your wrist JUST a little more you might be able to handle a REAL caliber.As far as Lathrops comments go,it sounds like the guy knows a little about what he's talking about. I read his posts and Im sorry but concern for safety is an issue for you? I see it as the guy looking out for us and trying to help.I dont see the posts as being biased or based on any manufacturers opinions. But then again Im probably not nearly as smart as YOU.

4/24/2009 05:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lathrop 1, your a CHA security guard aren't you.



Prior to becoming a Detective I used to work in 019 and know "Lathrop-1" That crazy bald fat bastard really knows how to hunt down the hood rats.He did give me a heads up on my model 4506 and a rear hammer grip spring issue. Turns out all I actually had to do was replace the grip since the cup holding the spring and spring cover had worn and I didnt even realize it. Rumor has it he is back at Lathrop.Rumor even has it that the Zone Dispatcher on midnites even asked over the radio about him. Nonetheless he does know more than some about guns and he will do what he can to save you a few bucks even though he STILL is a crazy bald bastard!

Love ya chubbie,only joking.
Welcome back.

4/25/2009 04:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm, people that own Glocks = No Problems. Every one else = Talks too much

4/25/2009 02:29:00 PM  

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