The Secret Recorder II
We've been taking more than a little flak in the comments over the alleged "voice recorder" that may or may not be in the Tahoes. A few points:
- It was brought to our attention via e-mail. We thought the readers deserved to know - it's always better to operate from a vantage point of too much info than too little.
- We've spoken to a few people "in the know" as it were. To a man, they agree that this device was used to exonerate a copper. Therefore, its existence wasn't made public.
- Eavesdropping law does not apply in this case - you have no expectation of privacy in a vehicle owned by the city. They are entitled to know where it is (GPS), who's in it (A&A's; supervisor logs; transport jobs over the radio), and what's going on in it (the "secret" recorder). And we doubt the city is obliged to inform the FOP or its members until the device is used in an adversarial proceeding. No one is checking these things unless there's an allegation, right?
And from a very reliable source, an 011th District Tahoe was held down for the better part of four days while IAD checked it for "evidence" recently. It wasn't a camera upload and no ET/Crime Lab was ordered.
What does that tell you? It tells us to be damn careful what happens in the car, that's for sure.
What does that tell you? It tells us to be damn careful what happens in the car, that's for sure.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
57 Comments:
someone has to have an in with a garage employee... where are they? step up
Did they get any of the conversation of Densey Cole and the shithead?
No...and I think they would have played it by now, if they had, sort of a preemptive strike if you will.
I still do not this device exists but I STILL will continue to watch what I say and do in ANY CPD vehicle or building.
EVENT NUMBER PLEASE??????
I work 99 and believe me, if IAD heard some of the conversations I have with myself, they would've committed me to Elgin by now. By the way, I have it from a good source at 35th St. that J-Fed is actually a genetic experiment done by aliens using DNA from a Neanderthal and a Yeti, which was implanted into an unwitting Commander Penny 3 years ago in Aruba.
For goodness sake! You're still wrong. You DO have an expectation of privacy to voice communications within a squad car. Period. They cannot record unless there's a court order or your partner gives permission. Call an employment law attorney of your choosing and they'll tell you that.
And what about the radios that everyone has glued to their hip? Think they could work that to record your conversation when the mike is not keyed?
You are so wrong about this. Eavesdropping law applies. Eavesdropping applies to conversation. The law is very easy to understand. They have a right to GPS, speed, video in the car watching you drive if they want but they cannot record or listen to your conversation without a COH issued by a judge.
iad is going to be able to update their files on which eating establishments produce the most fart gas after consumption--- since j-fed is a city employee can we put the recorder in his city vehicle as he also has no expectation of privacy and we want to hear what he is saying---- send in inspector closeau-----
And 1 more thing regarding the COH. That would be with 1 party consenting. To record the conversation without any consent would take a Title 3 which requires a huge investigation and long affidavit. There is no exception in the law for a vehicle owned by law enforcement. The law applies the same to a cab comapny, trucking company, etc. Any of these types of business can put a GPS on their vehicles but GPS and recorded conversation are 2 totally different things.
no...that 011 district tahoe was down because it was involved in a traffic accident and the POS recorder didn't upload. they had to manually upload from the hard drive in the car. pretty sure about this...BTW, they ARE out to get you, and only you
simple solution....to whoever knows anybody in motor maintenance: get that lazy bastard to show/explain to you where the mic/mic hard drive/any physical proof of it's existence is. then let others (post this info on the site maybe) know what he told you and they can see for themselves. coppers are pretty good at finding stuff in cars...its what we do for a living.
scc, stop playing lawyer. even though it is a city owned vehicle there is still an expectation of privacy within the cabin of the vehicle. a conversation between two parnters in a city vehicle can not be listened to and cannot be looked back on and listened to. you have to understand that in a situation where it is a department vehicle there has to be a dual consent given. this does not apply with just the in car camera and the one minute buffer recording. that is official work when that is recorded. just everyday conversations non duty related and non work related are protected in any enviorment unless a warrant or probable cause exists to listen in on that convo. however, if this is true this is a huge legal problem for the city and is dangerous for them. they are extremly deep in the gray area of the law if not breaking it completly.
Beat car downed in 011 for 4 days so in car camera video could be retrieved for an auto accident involving the squad car. Video wouldn't upload properly so techs had to retrieve it from the in car hard drive.
One thing we will have to be careful of is anything which sets a precedent for getting our personal cell phone information.
Lawyers are already asking for that and so far as I know it has been successfully denied.
Don't do anything stupid like take a photo of that 14 year old impersonator and get it published on the front page.
Stay Safe, be careful what you say, Big Brother is Watching You, and He is Listening too.
The one thing most of the commentators are missing is that even if eavesdropping is against the law, do u thing Daley or Jfed give a shit? They routinely violate the contract, our civil rights, you think they care about some bullshit law? They will take what they get and start an increased investigation into you until they get enough to hang your ass, if they want you the rat bastards will find a way. Do you think I am being paranoid, sorry 17yrs with this city/union/exempts not having our backs makes you a little cynical
Anonymous said...
"scc, stop playing lawyer. even though it is a city owned vehicle there is still an expectation of privacy within the cabin of the vehicle. ...if this is true this is a huge legal problem for the city and is dangerous for them. they are extremly deep in the gray area of the law if not breaking it completely."
8/25/2009 02:38:00 AM
And your point is what, exactly?
That the city wouldn't break the law?
OH, NO! THEY WOULDN'T DO THAT!!!!!
In many suburbs, where some departments have video in ALL squads, the audio in the car is recorded when the emergency lights are activated.
(ALSO NOTE, this thing is constantly rolling. It gets about 10 seconds before the lights are activated and automatically saves it)
When the squad gets close to the police station, it automatically downloads to a computer in the station where all traffic stops can be reviewed by certain supervisory personell.
ITS A DIFFERENT WORLD OUT THERE.
Guys have gotten a talking to for things like talking on the cell phone during a car chase, salty language and comments about bosses, and even giving coppers (with slurry speach) a pass.
BE CAREFULL.
FALSE-------------------------------
For goodness sake! You're still wrong. You DO have an expectation of privacy to voice communications within a squad car. Period. They cannot record unless there's a court order or your partner gives permission. Call an employment law attorney of your choosing and they'll tell you that.
TRUE--------------------------------
The City has and will use anything to fire "YOU", even if there ways or the Law is questionable. They have used recording in the past which weren't allowed in court.
Can anyone "Here" afford a lawyer or wait for Fob to settle the case, maybe in 2 years and you may get reinstated? I bet most will lose there house and little Johnny will be attending CPS now, also; wife will be very mad and "YOU" will "NOT" find a comparable job in todays economy. KNOW your rights and don't forget the City has deep pockets to handle "YOU" in court.
STAY SAFE
Anonymous said...
You are so wrong about this. Eavesdropping law applies. Eavesdropping applies to conversation. The law is very easy to understand. They have a right to GPS, speed, video in the car watching you drive if they want but they cannot record or listen to your conversation without a COH issued by a judge.
8/25/2009 01:51:00 AM
There is a BIG difference between they CAN NOT record or listen to your conversation and they SHOULD NOT record or listen to your conversation!!!!! I'm just sayin.
The city bugs the cars, so you can't talk shop with your partner.
Divide and conquer.
LOL...I started the IAD rumor because I knew that it would be the only way to keep the car from leaving the area before the video was retrieved and those officers cleared...O'Doyle Rules!!!! LIFM..
P.S. you should see the looks I get when I have the FEDs send me info packets to the desk..it keeps the bosses guessing..(ok that all my little secrets Im giving this week...
like your locker or locked desk in the station or the squad car you have NO privacy you do not OWN the squad or locker or desk. The city dose NOT need a warant to open a locker, desk or have a recording device on any city equipement or office. Seen city open lockers on more than one instance.
YOU are a PUBLIC EMPLOYEE........ ON PUBLIC USE OF PUBLIC PROPERTY..
Your squad is not locked at the end of your watch and not used by anyone else but you? Neither is your desk or locker or lockers it is all owned by the city and you "USE" it for a period of time only. Unless this is a criminal investigation gathering evidence anyone can use the public property.
As far as locked locker gose look at your G.O. city can go into your locker anytime!
Never had and never will use locker or keep anything in station or squad.
Partners Beware: No more love cars.
Illinois is a 2 party consent state, that is all you need to know. To legally listen you need one of two things.
1. A Court Order
2. Consent from both parties.
Period.
You are so wrong about this. Eavesdropping law applies. Eavesdropping applies to conversation. The law is very easy to understand. They have a right to GPS, speed, video in the car watching you drive if they want but they cannot record or listen to your conversation without a COH issued by a judge.
___________________________________
You're half right. A COH is a one party overhear meaning that one of the officers in the car has agreed to be recorded and the conversation must be focused on criminal activity at some point. A recorder in a vehicle is a wiretap and Illinois is one of the strictest states in the country. The conversation must be monitored very carefully and the wiretap can only be granted for specific guidelines eq. Narcotic trafficking, murder, kidnapping. Also, a wiretap is a last resort only type of surveillance and can only be used if all other efforts to catch you have been exhausted.
Ok so say we don't have an expectation of privacy. What about an arrestee we are transporting into the station. I know he does unless its IVC related like they instructed us in the training. This argument alone should prove this rumor false, however I for one don't trust the Dept.
VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS...WHERE'S THE FED'S?
For goodness sake! You're still wrong. You DO have an expectation of privacy to voice communications within a squad car. Period. They cannot record unless there's a court order or your partner gives permission. Call an employment law attorney of your choosing and they'll tell you that.
8/25/2009 12:48:00 AM
AGREED, YOUR PERSONAL CONVERSATIONS WITH YOUR PARTNERS, ETC IS PROTECTED SPEACH, ANYTHING YOU SAY OVER THE DEPT. RADIO IS ALREADY RECORDED. I CALL FOR A FEDERAL INVESTIGATION OF THIS WHOLE ILLEGAL RECORDING OF CPD CONVERSATIONS CONTROVERSY.
Do you know who has the right to sue?
The people in the car who don't work for the city (i.e. prisoners, passengers, etc...)
If that's the case, why can't we demand that Daley's office not be wired for recordings. Isn't he on city business when in his office? What's good for us, should be good for him.
Listen to all of you, "the city can do this" "the city can't do that". Remember this boys and girls, if the city has showed us one thing, they will do whatever they want to, plain and simple. The rules do not apply to the city, the do what they want to whom ever they want, and say a big F.U.. Law's don't apply to them nor do contracts nor do their own rules. If they want to use voice recorders they will, if they want use them they will. Just like administrative blows: Etc. Just watch your 6 out there, and don't think for one min. they will not use any means fare and un-fare to get you, if you are the ones in the cross hairs that day !!!!
Anonymous said...
I work 99 and believe me, if IAD heard some of the conversations I have with myself, they would've committed me to Elgin by now.
8/25/2009 12:17:00 AM
LOL.......Thanks for the Laugh!!!!
Has anyone heard of the GPS being used against an officer yet?
so you think you have an expectation of privacy with your conversations at work? what if you are speaking to a friend, say something racist, or even criminal, and someone overhears you. do you think you still have that expectation of privacy? it is their car, their video, their radio, and they are paying you. do you think they will not use what they hear against you?
go ahead and take that chance. . . . let us know how all your legal challenges go, how much it costs and how it works out. or we will just read about it in the paper.
To those of you how think you're protected by privacy laws pull your head out of your ass. They hate us and will bend laws how ever they want to in order to get us evil police. Remember how blood alcohol levels obtained from adminstrative orders to blow were not admissable in court? Those of you paying attention know that the state can use those results against you. Fuck the constitution. These assholes will do whatever they want. TIF funds, olympics, Cozzi, merit promotions, hired truck, Obama/Rezko, Obama/Northern Trust sweetheart mortgage, second amendment rights, and the list goes on and on. You think the city is afraid of violating some stupid privacy law? They will if they want to and the state's atty, IL atty gen, the U.S. atty, and every court will let them--just like they always have.
work 99 and believe me, if IAD heard some of the conversations I have with myself, they would've committed me to Elgin by now. By the way, I have it from a good source at 35th St. that J-Fed is actually a genetic experiment done by aliens using DNA from a Neanderthal and a Yeti, which was implanted into an unwitting Commander Penny 3 years ago in Aruba.
8/25/2009 12:17:00 AM
Nicely played sir lol..
Does anyone really think that shortshanks and the city would obey the laws of eavesdropping and wiretapping even if they applied?
Do it until we get caught is their mantra.
So then if you accidently have the mic on and it records you then they can't use it against you because you didn't give them permission to use that info of your recording? NOT! It happened already right? All you lawyers wanna explain that?
What about the city counsel member and the chief from (I believe) Lyons. Wasn't their conversation recorded because someone had left the mic on in the car. I don't remember all(if any) of the details. They were going to a parade or something and everything they said was played back later.
Hey SCC,
Today I saw the crossing guard supervisor in 14 writing out parking tickets... What the fuck the man is like 90 years old, doesn't even have his pants on properly!! REALLY THIS IS UNFUCKING BELIEVABLE!!! Shouldn't he be making sure the crossing guards are on posts and helping children get to school safely~
You are so wrong about this. Eavesdropping law applies. Eavesdropping applies to conversation. The law is very easy to understand. They have a right to GPS, speed, video in the car watching you drive if they want but they cannot record or listen to your conversation without a COH issued by a judge.
they can't use it criminally, but they can use it to fire you i believe.
VIOLATION OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS...WHERE'S THE FED'S?
8/25/2009 10:23:00 AM
Sadly enough, running OUR Department.
I was there at Motor Maintenance as well. The mechanic told me that if you stop, put the car in neutral, then reverse then low drive, open the glove box, turn on the heat (blower on the second mark) slide the seat from front to back twice, unlock the passenger rear door and click your heels together and blink three times the car will become a hovercraft and lift you straight up and deposit you on the funny farm which is where anybody who buys this story belongs.
Funny ass shit! Can't stop laughing!
NorthSide said...
After the rumor began about her requiring the troops to jump to attention when she entered the room, Penny assured me this was balderdash.
___________________________________Northern, you really are pushing buttons.. Mind your own business already. First you trash to no end the Supt, now you HAD a conversation with Penny, the C-O of 011.
You were never liked and always were a loose goose. Now you think you are a legend. Many of us got you out of so much crap is was and got old
guys, everyone is getting antsy. r man checked wires in beat car in 012, just a clock with temp. sensor outside car on mars bracket. long time r man assured it wasn't bug,
"Do you know who has the right to sue?
The people in the car who don't work for the city (i.e. prisoners, passengers, etc...)
8/25/2009 10:33:00 AM"
Maybe.
If you were ever overheard in one of those silly vehicles and could prove it, you could retire for life. In all Title III investigations, there has to be means to go "out" of the conversation, that is, you cannot listen to someone's sexual escapades, etc. Just to randomly record conversation is a no , no.
What a great class action suit.
old retired guy
BS
I don't have a lot of time on the job and I'm surely not a lawyer.. but here is a common sense type of question:
They may not be able to prosecute in court, but could hold you ADMINISTRATIVELY responsible?
Outsider looking in...why argue among yourselves over the legalities of this issue? Demand a definitive answer from the FOP/
legal team. Period. Over & Out.
Hold their feet to the fire on this, or get rid of them.
Can't imagine working in this adverse environment without
specific guidelines from FOP &
backup counsel.
8:40 pm
Weisel and Henny Penny are clueless contemptible political hacks, not police. Unlike you, Northside has respect and credibility. What the hell is a loose goose, moron? Northside already answered your desperate crap back on the BOX CHEVY PHANTOM post.
You should have cut and run back then, sissy. You really are stupid.
There is a BIG difference between they CAN NOT record or listen to your conversation and they SHOULD NOT record or listen to your conversation!!!!! I'm just sayin.
8/25/2009 07:30:00 AM
A little paranoid, Are we?
For goodness sake! You're still wrong. You DO have an expectation of privacy to voice communications within a squad car. Period. They cannot record unless there's a court order or your partner gives permission. Call an employment law attorney of your choosing and they'll tell you that.
Even if your partner gives permission they still need a court order (COH) and would have to show there was some criminal activity involved. The COH is much much much easier to get than an order without any consenters but you still need and affidavit, an ASA and a judge.
You are so wrong about this. Eavesdropping law applies. Eavesdropping applies to conversation. The law is very easy to understand. They have a right to GPS, speed, video in the car watching you drive if they want but they cannot record or listen to your conversation without a COH issued by a judge.
they can't use it criminally, but they can use it to fire you i believe.
8/25/2009 05:49:00 PM
The thing is the Eavesdropping statute is a criminal statute. It is not a civil law or some kind of administrative law.Its also a felony. As bad as the city is in fucking with us there is no way they are going to covertly wire the cars to illegally violate this law. We can thank all of our honest politicians who passed the law the way it is for making it so difficult to eavesdrop. Its not like they had anything to hide.
The thing is the Eavesdropping statute is a criminal statute. It is not a civil law or some kind of administrative law.Its also a felony. As bad as the city is in fucking with us there is no way they are going to covertly wire the cars to illegally violate this law.
--------
In the State of Illinois, a Police Officer is required to provide reasonable belief that a crime is committed and obtain a Consensual Overhear (COH) from the Circuit Court to record conversations. However, federal law enforcement agents are not restricted like Police Officers. They can record under suspicion that a crime is committed and obtain the court order from a Federal Magistrate AFTER evidence of a crime is recorded.
That's a fact!
I love that all of this shit started with, "I saw a mess of wires, I recognized some of them. But one set cought my I....."
all you lawyers or wannabes...please look up "expectation of privacy" under your employer. there is basically NONE! WHEN YOU ARE AT WORK, unless you are using the bathroom (stall), there is NO expectation. Asquad car is like an office space in a building, and in our case the space/squad is owned by the police dept/city. OPEN YOUR EYES AND EARS, CLOSE YOUR MOUTH!!! and by the way...when we are order to go down to 35th/michigan for a random (YEAH) drug test, they are right there watching us!!!!
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