Laws of Physics Suspended
Many motorists nabbed for speeding by a laser gun, instead of radar, are seeing their tickets thrown out at Chicago's traffic court because of a legal issue that the city's law department has been unable to overcome.
Within the last year judges in Cook County Traffic Court in Chicago determined that speeds captured by lidar were not admissible because the devices had not been proven scientifically reliable in an Illinois court, said Jenny Hoyle, spokeswoman for the law department, which prosecutes most speeding tickets in the city.
Because as everyone knows, the laws of physics cease to function with the bounds of Illinois. As do the laws regarding other well known endeavors such as voter registration, pay-to-play politicking and just about every single method of pouring concrete.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
29 Comments:
OT.... Anonymous said...
Can i ask why Mike Shields seems like the only f*cking person on the pension board that is actually trying to preserve our pensions. The rest, it seems, treat it like a big pool of money that they can just give away to whoever they seem fit, or perhaps whoever slips them the biggest envelope.
I know one thing, i will not vote to keep any of those hacks besides shields and am seriously thinking about running myself. At least i know i'll have the best intrest of our dept at heart. How can that possibly be worse than what the rest of them are doing?
I THINK IT'S TIME TO GET TOGETHER WITH BROTHER MIKE SHIELDS, AND PICKET THE PENSION BOARD, REGARDING THE PAST AND PRESENT THEFTS FROM OUR PENSION FUND, AND THE NUMEROUS ATTEMPTED THEFTS, EMBEZZLEMENTS , ETC. MAYBE WE CAN GET RID OF SOME MORE OF THE REAL ASS-CLOWNS ON THE BOARD, AND PERHAPS GET SOME OF THEM INDICTED BY THE FEDS. WE NEED NEW AND HONEST-ETHICAL GUARDIANS OF THE FUND.
THAT'S ALL FOLKS, TIME TO START DRINKING IN PREPARATION FOR KICK-OFF TIME.....
11/08/2009 09:08:00 AM
WE NEED TO ASK THE RETIREE'S JAGOFF REP. HAUSER WHY HE TIME AND TIME AGIN VOTES WITH DALEY AND FUCKS US!!!!!!! The Lt.'s have a Daley fuck too that they elect named Mahoney. The sgt.'s have another fuck named Lazzaro!!!! Daley picks 5, so one would think the reps for us police would be on our side. Never trust a Lt. because they should be smart enough not to elect a backstabber rep.! The retirees must just be DUMB!!! Either way we are fucked because it's a ME ME ME department now!
The great State of Illinois where Turkeys soar higher than Eagles and all govermental business is viewed as an opportunity to reap great profits & rape the taxpayer . If these Turkey's had to go out and do an honest days work they'd starve.
What would happen if the same argument was made for the breathalyzer?
LETS NOT FORGET THE RED LIGHT CAMERAS.
i spit .
The law requires the proof of scientific evidence in each jusridiction (state). You know, your whole "state's rights" thing SCC. Just because somewhere else does it, or the federal courts do it, doesn't make it acceptable here. Abortion? Gun control? All part of the same legal theory. Don't worry about the law, worry about why Corp Counsel hasn't dealt with this.
Good Im glad they get tossed. We are taxed enough.
Lidar, traffic light cameras and speed cameras are all just another TAX.
Screw all the revenue generators and lets get back to the basics.
Similar situation in Germany. Can you trust a third party company who has financial motivation to issue tickets?
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/german-court-questions-laser-speed-camera-accuracy/
"WE NEED TO ASK THE RETIREE'S JAGOFF REP. HAUSER WHY HE TIME AND TIME AGIN VOTES WITH DALEY AND FUCKS US"
"...The retirees must just be DUMB!!!"
11/09/2009 12:20:00 AM
no one ran against him, dumb fuck
boo hoo, who is writing movers anyway--- the captain is going to make me work an 8 hour day and take away my sat/sun day off group if my ten are not in the envelope everyday.... i hope they throw them all out.....
Breathalyzers have been challenged successfully. In Minnesota the most commonly used device was almost gotten rid of because the manufacturer would not make the programming available to defense counsel.
You may recall the Florida situation where a TV station got a reading of 90 miles an hour from a grove of trees, which pretty much got all radar cases thrown out of court. The feds, who had supplied grant money for most of the radar guns, asked the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) to check out the devices to quiet things down. NIST found that the devices were not accurate. This brought on many howls of protest along the lines of "NASA uses radar, and it's accurate enough for them!" True, but not the point. Rulers are commonly used, but rulers with bad markings are useless for accuracy. The radar guns in question could be "tuned" to give any reading the operator wanted, and even if properly tuned could give inaccurate results. NIST came out with standards for radar guns, which took care of most of the problems, except for grumbling about scrapping almost every radar gun in the country.
In this case, have the LIDAR units been tested, or manufactured to a reasonable standard?
If you are still writing tickets with that LIDAR GUN you are nuts. Do you think the city is going to back you up after it was made known that the tickets are being tossed. You will be in Federal court all by yourself!
Where is Donahue on this? No where. If you are a copper writing these tickets you need you head examined. What is the positive of it? A copper places himself in danger with the traffic stop, a cr number can be made from the stop, missing or damaged LIDAR gun, and so on, no money is given to the city for the citation, the officer can get deviated if he doesn't show up in court, dealing with parking at traffic court, etc. All for a ticket that gets automatically dismissed. If I were a defense attorney I would sue the city for false arrest and harassment of my client. But I guess it's worth it to make the watch commander happy. And don't forget to buy your mandatory Christmas ticket.
All they need is an expert witness such as a representative from lidar to come in and prove the equipment. It is not bullshit. The city is bullshit for not providing this.
"...The law requires the proof of scientific evidence in each jusridiction (state). You know, your whole "state's rights" thing SCC. Just because somewhere else does it, or the federal courts do it, doesn't make it acceptable here...."
That makes perfect sense. HOWEVER, it is already an accepted method of speed detection in IL and has been for years. Nearly every other county in this state has had the Frye Hearing which sets the precedent and allows the LIDAR to be considered acceptable to the Court. The City of Chicago Corporation Counsel's Office has put off holding the required Frye Hearing because it costs money. But downtown is too stupid to realize that they are literally losing millions of dollars in ticket fine revenues every month and this has been going on in traffic court for at least a year now. So for every ticket that gets tossed out by the judge because the city won't pay to set the precedent, they lose the money from the judicial fine and they have to pay each officer time & a half to appear in court. Officers with multiple keys and court calls are cashing in big time. Write a few speeders, spend about 10 minutes in court because the judge announces that he is dismissing every ticket regardless of how the driver wishes to plea, and get 3 hours of OT pay. Repeat for your other traffic court key dates. It's free money. Who wouldn't want to write speeding tickets? It's like taking candy from a baby and it's 100% legit.
Judicial Review
Now...this is not a shot at the officers that use LIDAR....but here is the problem....
The problem is LIDAR requires more aiming accuracy than RADAR or cops shooting on the range to qualify to carry a weapon. The is a moving target upon which the officer must aim the light beam on the front license plate to get an accurate reading. Too often the beam is not aimed steadily on the front plate and “washes” down the side of the car, drastically affecting the indicated speed reading up, thereby not meeting the qualifications of prima facia evidence.
And the city is too cheap to pick up a better form of detection device.
This is NOT news!
I told my watch Commander what was going on in traffic court over a year ago. The Watch Commander responded to me like a I had two heads on my shoulders!
This is exactly why I did not train on the stupid LIDAR! You have NO BACKUP in court!
"I know one thing, i will not vote to keep any of those hacks besides shields and am seriously thinking about running myself."
HEY MORON, maybe you should learn how the board works. As a P O you can ONLY vote for the officer rep, and nobody else (asshat).
The Sgt's elect their rep and so do the Lt's.
The retiree's had no one running against Hauser and he won automatically by acclimation.
Everybody else there are Daily's people.
Stop up there one day and ask the office staff where the reps are and they will all laugh in your face.
Most are rarely ever there.
It's a good gig and pays well for doing nothing and only doing it part time.
They all know who butters their bread.
ALL 3 REPS (Lt's, Sgt's & Retired) need to be removed immediately, but it will not happen till the next election (2 years away?). They have already sold their souls to the Mayor!
"And the city is too cheap to pick up a better form of detection device."
11/09/2009 03:23:00 PM
*****************************
Shortshanks & "The cabal of 50 Idiots" haven't figured out a way of making money off of it (yet).
As soon as the scam is perfected they'll make it "legal" (that's a joke, isn't it !)
To 3.23pm who said:..... LIDAR requires more aiming accuracy than RADAR or cops shooting on the range to qualify to carry a weapon. The is a moving target upon which the officer must aim the light beam on the front license plate to get an accurate reading. Too often the beam is not aimed steadily on the front plate and “washes” down the side of the car, drastically affecting the indicated speed reading up, thereby not meeting the qualifications of prima facia evidence.
===================================
And where do you get this? You watch that bullshit video on YouTube that some guy in Israel posted?
I've been using LIDAR since they were given to us.
It isn't that hard to keep the targeting "pipper" on the vehicle's plate, you only need it there for a second.
Stop with the weather arguments either. You can adjust the beam for weather, but who the hell does traffic in heavy rain--I sure don't and I'm a traffic Nazi.
Quit giving your opinion if you don't know what you are talking about.
LIDAR is foolproof, the technology has been around since the NASA Apollo missions.
Courts all over the country, including DuPage, Lake, Will and McHenry counties, have allowed LIDAR for years. The city and county tried hanging their hats on that and the future Supreme Court Justices at 50 W Washington feel the need to see their name on a writ.
Wait until you scrape up an innocent person off the street because some eurotrash in a wing car decides to go 40-50 over on an arterial street, knowing he can get away from it. You'll ask then, where the speed enforcement is. Most traffic guys, give people a wide latitude on speed, not just hammering people for going 10 over.
Signed----a guy who really knows the truth about LIDAR.
The LIDAR Does Not have to Hit the License Plate...When is the last time you heard or saw a Beam of Light Slide down the side of a Car...Idiot. Any object from the bumper to the glass can reflect the beam back to the device...If not, guess what...No Raeding! No Reading no Indication of Speed... You should consider being a Boss!
OT - CH 2 News just said that starting tomorrow city crews will begin towing cars 24 hrs around the clock... news at 10 pm.
Typical City of Chicago bullshit!
Speeding is the number #1 cause of motor vehicle fatalities in Chicago. LIDAR is a proven technology used throughout the world.
The tree test was the result of a person using a piece of technology they were not trained.
If you let speeders get away than do not cry when you get hit by one and you are in a wheelchair eating and breathing with a tube.
***********************************
Now...this is not a shot at the officers that use LIDAR....but here is the problem....
The problem is LIDAR requires more aiming accuracy than RADAR or cops shooting on the range to qualify to carry a weapon. The is a moving target upon which the officer must aim the light beam on the front license plate to get an accurate reading. Too often the beam is not aimed steadily on the front plate and “washes” down the side of the car, drastically affecting the indicated speed reading up, thereby not meeting the qualifications of prima facia evidence.
And the city is too cheap to pick up a better form of detection device.
Educate Mr. Dumass
http://www.officer.com/print/Law-Enforcement-Technology/LIDAR--The-Speed-Enforcement-Weapon-of-Choice/1$33486
Anonymous said...
"WE NEED TO ASK THE RETIREE'S JAGOFF REP. HAUSER WHY HE TIME AND TIME AGIN VOTES WITH DALEY AND FUCKS US"
"...The retirees must just be DUMB!!!"
11/09/2009 12:20:00 AM
no one ran against him, dumb fuck
11/09/2009 09:28:00 AM
Like he said Mr. short penis. They are DUMB!!! And now so are you
Interesting reading this as I am a cop turned prosecutor who also happens to have held an FCC license.
There have been some good answers here -- and some bullshit. Let me put it in plain English.
Laser speed detection is very accurate and more so that radar. Most errors, which seldom occur, are in favor of the motorist (unlike radar).
The problem is that municipalities and states bought the laser guns prior to widespread type acceptance by the courts. It's a problem that can be solved but takes a little work.
Stationary radar was accepted by courts as scientifically reliable for years but when moving radar came along in the 1970's there were problems.
First, moving radar can be more error-prone, especially when not properly used. Most errors work against the motorist.
Second, most of the first moving radar units were bought by purchasing agents looking for the lowest bid. When MPH Industries introduced the cheap K55, sales skyrocketed. So did problems.
When "trees" were "clocked" in Florida it was actually cars on other streets as the K55's beam width was not very discerning. Cost cutting meant horrible selectivity and poor reliability.
Fast forward 1,000 miles north to Wisconsin where the State Patrol bought the most expensive Kustom Signals units. A motorist challenged moving radar as not being scientifically reliable. The state made a test case, calling in expert witnesses, and the resulting Hanson decision from the Wisconsin Supreme Court became the nationwide model for acceptance of moving radar results as long as certain standards were met.
Then came LIDAR. One state did the right thing: a preemptive strike to declare laser speed detection scientifically reliable. A few other states made similar findings. As I recall, a little over half of the states find laser speed detection scientifically relaible.
In the absence of a similar ruling from the Illinois Supreme Court, laser tickets can be won but only if the scientific reliability is established in each hearing. That's not cost effective and damn silly. Instead there are two options: argue from precedents in other states OR make a test case here (as Wisconsin did with Hanson some 30 years aho).
This is a problem that CAN be solved IF someone wants to do the work. IF.
Post a Comment
<< Home