CFD Cuts?
Anyone from the Fire side of things know anything about the rumor that the city wants to cut rigs from 5 firefighters down to 4 in exchange for the 55 and out? That would seem to be a rather large public safety issue and deserving of explanations.
And do you guys have an academy classes in at the moment or is it reduction by attrition, too?
Just curious.
And do you guys have an academy classes in at the moment or is it reduction by attrition, too?
Just curious.
Labels: fire fighters, rumors
posted by SCC at 12:31 AM
61 Comments:
Sure, let's start getting the firan killed now.
Kiss my ass Daley!
Can anyone confirm the following told to me by chgo fire?
A few weeks ago cfd conducted a 'routine' check and found beach towels shoved into many fire hydrants downtown. Specifically fire hydrants around city hall and both federal buildings. If undetected during an actual fire, cfd equipment/trucks would swallow up the towels and be blown.
The contract will settle late this year. Lots of guys are waiting for the new contract to settle before they put in their papers, and yes, many are waiting to see if the city gives the 55 and out. Manning is the HUGE issue on the table, where the city wants to cut one man from the truck, from 5 to 4. Union is holding strong. Up to 700 guys would be eligible to take the 55 and out if approved. Academy is completely shut down. No classes since early this year. None scheduled until at least next year at the earliest. What the hell is going on with public safety in Chicago? How long can the City cry poor? Its ridiculous!
"That would seem to be a rather large public safety issue..."
Not to mention a very large firefighter safety issue!
This crap just keeps getting better and better.
Doesn't CFD have contractual/some kind of deal with the city staffing requirements?
I'm not CFD, but I know that the city has for decades pushed for a manpower reduction on trucks. The number of fires has dropped significantly over the past 50 years.
There are NO academy classes in at this time.Currently we run with 5 personnel on every Engine and Truck Co. HOWEVER on a daily basis the city has what is called a "manning or acting" variance.What this means is they can run 30 companies a day with either 4 personnel or an acting officer or engineer or any combination of each up to a total of 30.This is watched closely as they always try to "slip" one past us.If that occurs somebody at the top of the overtime list who should have been called back to work will recieve 24 hours in overtime and remain at top of callback list.On another note the city ALWAYS wants to reduce manpower.Every contract this is a major bargaining issue.Manning is everything to us as it truly is a huge safety issue not only for us but the citizens.Thank God we have a manning no acting out of rank clause in our contract or we would be screwed.This is not a rumor they have been after manning since the first contract in 1980!!
Who really cares?
Let them dwindle down - really do not need that many FF, need more paramedics.
What is there, really, about 1 or 2 fires a week? Half of them are garbage cans or cars that dude stole anyhow.
Hell, 4 FF on a rig would be ample for what their mission is today.
I'm just waiting for an academy start date. Manning Is being negated with the city now. Don't know if the next class is going to be the law suit class or not. God I hope not.
heard it was going to be a percentage of the rigs being cut down in size---- you know what that means, next time it will be more....
This is not new. Even before the City offered 55 and health care to the CPD , they wanted an increase of Variances on the rigs,( one man short) . Now that it is out there, the issue has allowed them to press for an even larger decrease in manpower. I think that the consensus on the job is that it is not worth losing 20 percent of the Force for.
And have any of these deep thinkers thought about the fact that the Firemens Pension is underfunded, and the only ones contributing regularly to the Fund are the Firemen / Paramedics themselves! Way to keep us solvent!
CPD is already short 15 % in patrol division . CPD has to cut exempt positions and large staff of sworn officers .
Why did daly bring back rank of captain , Lts are watch commanders over 50 % of the time .
Save the pension and eliminate half the exempts and all captains.sun times article says all city pensions will be bankrupt by 2030 . Officers with less than 10 years are screwed .
CPD promotes police officers as commanders , sgt as deputy chief and every district has 10 full duty officers assuigned to office duties while we work one man in beat cars.
Superintendent Weiss why not dump every district commander that has more than allowed number of officers working inside . We work alone and the commannders hide officers inside or on foot patrols.
Commanders feel you don't care or have a clue . Dump them before march 2011 .
CFD still working without a contract for over 3 years .
will the mayor threaten cfd with an 8 hour day , that'll reduce the number of applicants.
Why not do cuts with CFD? We don't have fires like we used to years ago. Also since fire always seems to refuse to go to jobs, why have them?
CFD has minimum manning.. One off the job, one has to replace them. The city is allowed to understaff companies but only so many per day.
But the short answer to your question is yes. The city is fighting hand over fist to reduce our minimum manning from 5 to 4. Thats a reduction of 600 jobs.
Currently we have about 950 guys that have 30 and a day. Once a contract is signed the city expects that a good number will leave. They don't need to give us 55 and to be honest im not sure it's even "really" on the table. The question is how are they going to replace the ones that go. The answer at city hall is to reduce staffing.
The city wants more variances from the union for healthcare at 55. A variance is a set number that the city is allowed to run companies short. So basically, yes they're trying to cut one man off each rig every day.
Presently, there is no class in the academy. The city is trying to figure out how to bring the guys that sued because they failed the entrance test onto the job.
Those guys will be hated more than the 1980 guys!
Nothing but trying to balance the budget and shift the costs to the pension fund. CFD fund is worse than CPD fund.
I will stick with my prediction-- CPD pension fund will be broke
earliest 2018
latest 2022
Keep shifting the costs from city to the pension fund and everyone is happy about " retiring early"-
old retired guy
Also, planning underway to move Fire HQ over to vacant space at 3510 Michigan.
October 6th, City Hall...
Shortshanks will be there
All of the Aldermen will be there
All the News Media will be there
The Whole World will be watching
It's time for a Combined CPD, CFD, CPS, S&S, all hands on deck march.
It is always a threat by the city to cut manpower. Do they want to take the heat in an effort to balance the budget?
Right now the department has plenty of firefighters, no OT. If they give the 55 and out, or cut staffing levels, they can hire about 300 in a year. The city definitely would want to avoid retirements equaling any OT.
It seems there is movement in our contract and could be settled soon. We'll see what the real cuts will be.
Anonymous said...
I'm not CFD, but I know that the city has for decades pushed for a manpower reduction on trucks. The number of fires has dropped significantly over the past 50 years.
9/24/2010 06:23:00 AM
There are 2 reasons the number of fires are down.
First is the prevelance of smoke detectors and early detection.
The other reason is that BECAUSE of the current manning requirements we are able to put nearly 20 firefighters on the scene of a fire in less than 5 minutes.
BECAUSE we have the manning we can engage in a rapid interior attack of the fire as compared to some the suburbs, some of which run with 2 or 3 personnel on the rig.
In fact, NIOSH just reported on the death of Homewood Firefighter Brian Carey. One of their reccommendations is below
Recommendation #7: Fire departments should ensure that adequate staffing is available to respond to emergency incidents.
“During this incident, the victim’s department responded with three personnel on the engine and two personnel on the ambulance, but the Still assignment also consisted of an engine, two ladder trucks, and a squad, with four fire personnel on each. It was routine to have an ambulance respond with an engine on a first due fire assignment. Due to short staffing, the ambulance personnel were tasked with fire suppression activities, thus taking them out-of-service as a medical unit.”
NOTE: it may have taken more than 10 to 15 minutes to get all apparatus and personnel listed to the scene..
“Also, due to short staffing, the lieutenant/acting officer (IC) was required to ride and operate as the officer of E534. This removed him from his command response vehicle which would have allowed him to command at a tactical level versus having to potentially perform tasks.”
My only request is that you communicate to your co-workers the need to KEEP YOUR SQUADS AWAY FROM THE FIRE BUILDING!!!
WHY? you ask....because the first Engine will drive 1 or 2 houses past the fire building to allow us to take our hose off the BACK of the rig.
This also allows the first Ladder (Truck) company access to the front of the fire building to raise the ladder to the roof.
Both our jobs are great when we work (and fight the City's idiocy) together. Coppers are always welcome at my firehouse...stop in if you get the chance...
Stay safe
the city might be setting the stage for a mass hireing at a lower wage scale. united airlines did this two tier pay for pilots years ago w/ old guys in the 200,s and new guys set to never break 100,000.00.
think what your house would be worth if new city workers only made 1/2 of your pay.
why retire working 1 off 2
with 50 % less fires you may as well stay on job and enjoy full pay
This is true
CFD hires as quick as they leave. The way is should be!
CFD hires as quick as they leave. The way is should be!
the burb's have 3 guys on rigs so the city will push it now.the average age of cfd is 40ish, less manpower means more guys will get hurt at fires.
Who really cares?
Let them dwindle down - really do not need that many FF, need more paramedics.
Yeah cause God knows the Engine and truck companies don't go to shooting scenes or multi-vehicle crashes... Leave the staffing alone for CFD.
Many towns across this country are claiming that there city services are costing to much. The politicians fail to mention all the contracts awarded to "friends". The City of Chicago has sold so many of our city services to clout companies who charge even more. The fleecing of America is forcing us into a third world country. The political thieves on all levels have put the people in a dangerous situation. However the voters as will be seen in this next mayoral election will continue to vote for the same players (just different faces). Take a look at Vallejo Ca. the police chief made 300k a year laid off over 20% of the police workforce. The politicians have denied hiring new recruits yet blame the officers for making to much. There are several officers making over 100k. But they fail to mention that the officers are working double shifts forcing them to work the overtime because they refuse to hire. The town filed for bankruptcy over a year ago. The politicians who have mismanaged the government continue to blame the police and fire for the financial crisis.
God Bless CFD, but...I worked in a district that is surrounded by suburbs. Guess how many guys on a fire truck??? 2...That's right 2. How the fuck can they do that? 1 drives and operates the pump and the other goes in alone with a charged line? Until the next mutual aid suburb shows up with another 2 bodies. Talked to the suburban FF's and they relate that the era of volunteers is all but dead....I thought that they would all show up at the fire with their gear, but these guys stated that the insurance liability for these towns has all but eliminated volunteer FF's in the South Suburbs. Stay Safe ALL 1st Responders.
Can anyone confirm the following told to me by chgo fire?
A few weeks ago cfd conducted a 'routine' check and found beach towels shoved into many fire hydrants downtown
.....................................
100 percent true, then each house a list of hydrants to check.
Mayb Cops and Firefighters should get behind one candidate for Mayor, like Tom Dart.
CPD Yes Police is Next!! Hang on to your hats boys and girls. Watch from many Gold Stars to fall and never be replaced. End the take home cars too.
Don't forget:
Oct 3, 2010 - Bourbon Street
P.O. Densey Cole benefit
www.denseycole.com
If they come for the couches I quit!
Also, planning underway to move Fire HQ over to vacant space at 3510 Michigan.
9/24/2010 10:03:00 AM
Even with half the building empty, there is STILL nowhere to park down there. Made even better when all the street parking that used to be free went to the rape/pay box system, with civilian scumbags hovering, just waiting to tag a squad car! The parking lot is stacked three deep in the aisles, yet they still won't let you park in the mostly empty "reserved section" to do minor errands or pick up checks.
in my District (023), we have the CFD respond to all kinds of calls all the time. I am thankful for their help, as sometimes we don't have enough of our own (CPD). there can NEVER be too many when it comes to public safety!!!! besides, our numbers are WAY DOWN!!!! many thanks to all of our CFD brothers/sisters.
023rd copper
What? The red camera lights can't put out the fires?
OCTOBER 6TH IS THE DATE FOR A COMBINED CITY EMPLOYEE MARCH AROUND THE HALL.
ALL CFD, CPD, S&S, ETC., city employees should have an Informational Picket line around Chicago City Hall.
Come On Guys and Gals.... NOW is the prime time to show the citizens the REAL truth.
The real question is how many fires there are now compared to when the "minimum manning" was set. It has to be down at least 20%.
Fire Marshall BIll, I don't understand how response can effect the number of fires being lower? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand.
"Mayb Cops and Firefighters should get behind one candidate for Mayor, like Tom Dart.
9/24/2010 03:36:00 PM"
or maybe not.
Can anyone confirm the following told to me by chgo fire?
A few weeks ago cfd conducted a 'routine' check and found beach towels shoved into many fire hydrants downtown
.....................................
100 percent true, then each house a list of hydrants to check.
-----------------------------------Yeah, and didn't they just say Chicago is well prepared for terrorist attacks? Pulease.
Very scary that we are absolutely on the map. And fricking Daley is running away now, as if he won't be to blame when he's not hear.
I don't know what some guys are thinking? Even if there are no fires, you needed a standing force of fire fighters to protect the city in case of a fire. Remember the great Chicago fire that burnt the city down. I for one don't want to be living here fighting crime and have my block burn down because of a manpower shortage. Look what's going on with us so short. Let's get together on some of this. The city is wasting more money and pointing the finger at emergency services.
Hope your house doesn't ever catch on fire.
Anonymous said...
Maybe Cops and Firefighters should get behind one candidate for Mayor, like Tom Dart.
9/24/2010 03:36:00 PM
I don't know about firefighters but cops typically can't agree on where to eat lunch and most don't vote. they are too busy you know.
Anonymous said...
the city might be setting the stage for a mass hiring at a lower wage scale. united airlines did this two tier pay for pilots years ago w/ old guys in the 200,s and new guys set to never break 100,000.00.
9/24/2010 11:06:00 AM
What will the city do with a bunch of pilots once they are hired?
Ok here is the real skinny on all of your questions!!
1. The city will be able to put 35 rigs on a variance.So that is 35 rigs with 4 guys.
2.On towels!
We check hydrants twice a year. We always find shit in them. No big deal.
3. No classes to start any time soon
Jesus guys, think. A reduction on fire truck crews is the same as us demanding 1-man cars and 1-man wagons. It's insane. This is Chicago - where the innocent get eaten. Please don't compare CPD and CFD to suburban departments. We're all police and fire but the intensity and frequency of calls makes a dramatic distinction. Any reduction, for any public safety department (PD, FD, EMS) should be a real concern for everyone.
Many towns across this country are claiming that there city services are costing to much...
The only thing that costs to much is all the ghetto freebies to keep the animals happy and quiet.
I'm calling BS on this one.... There is an OSHA Law that requires "Two In Two Out". If there is only two on the engine they have two wait until another Engine shows up to start any interior attack. The only exception to this rule is a Rescue. The people in the Suburbs are being misled don't let this happen in the city.
Sons of Ireland unite! Your takeover of Edison Park will be complete with the election of Daley handpick and Galewood Park piss pot John Mulroe! Three paychecks and no jobs-it's the Democrats way! Mulroe is backed by saloon owner Mary O'Connor and he's a westside transplanted D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T. Save yourself-vote Republican!
CFD has the best gig in the city- these guys love to go to work because they get to get away from the wife and screaming kids, they eat like kings and watch sports/tv all day unless they are a little sleepy then they can go and take a little nappy- now paramedics thats a differant story
Anonymous said...
The real question is how many fires there are now compared to when the "minimum manning" was set. It has to be down at least 20%.
9/24/2010 11:00:00 PM
This is a completely stuoid argument. because calls are down is not a reason to lower manpower. One major fire would then become a major problem. I do not care what fire fighters do so long as they respond when my house is on fire. Same for police. Should we cut manpower in half in a slow district because of low violent crime? Who will assist or even respond to in progress calls? This is bullshit. Divide and conqueor. Daley's secret weapon. Keep us divided.
Anonymous said...
Fire Marshall BIll, I don't understand how response can effect the number of fires being lower? I am not saying you are wrong, I just don't understand.
9/24/2010 11:01:00 PM
My apologies, I should quantify that part of the answer.
Not only are the number of fire calls down (due to the smoke detector thing mentioned) but the number of extra alarm fires (where we call in for more apparatus & manpower)is down because of our response.
In addition, because of the increased risks associated with the tactics used, RIT (Rapid Intervention Teams) are now brought to the scene specifically for cases when the shit hits the fan like in Homewood and fire personnel need rescue.
The sheer number of personnel the CFD has on scene allows for overall safer fireground operations, thus reducing the number of injuries and associated medical and overtime costs
In simple terms, reducing manpower = increase in severity of fires and firefighter injuries.
Hope this helps....
I have an idea
no more clerical assignments for police officers , you take a test to be the police , do the job you were hired for . CPD has to much manpower . hire part time officers for details and sporting events
cut back on supervisors , cpd needs blue shirts not exempts and captains
Anonymous 9/25/2010 07:29:00 AM said....
2.On towels!
We check hydrants twice a year. We always find shit in them. No big deal.
Obviously someone doesn't grasp the significance of location....
Sure we find all sorts of shit in the hydrants in the ghetto.....sticks, rocks, flamin hot cheetos bags & red pop containers....
why would there be beach towels in hydrants in the business district or close to government facilities....
OPEN YOUR EYES BOYS & GIRLS....SOMETHING IS COMIN'....
"Sons of Ireland unite! Your takeover of Edison Park will be complete with the election of Daley handpick and Galewood Park piss pot John Mulroe! Three paychecks and no jobs-it's the Democrats way! Mulroe is backed by saloon owner Mary O'Connor and he's a westside transplanted D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T. Save yourself-vote Republican!"
SIGNED YOUR LOYAL ALDERCLOWN, B.uyin.D.rinks
who cares? i'm always riding 99
I'm calling BS on this one.... There is an OSHA Law that requires "Two In Two Out". If there is only two on the engine they have two wait until another Engine shows up to start any interior attack. The only exception to this rule is a Rescue. The people in the Suburbs are being misled don't let this happen in the city.
9/25/2010 08:33:00 AM
I would not BS on this ...talked to the 2 Cal Park FF's that were on the scene a few months ago, with an Engine on a boarder street job (119th). I'm just relating what they told me...Seems to be a HUGE Safety issue for FF's...Stay Safe Guys. 022 PO
CFD has the best gig in the city- these guys love to go to work because they get to get away from the wife and screaming kids, they eat like kings and watch sports/tv all day unless they are a little sleepy then they can go and take a little nappy- now paramedics thats a differant story
9/25/2010 08:52:00 AM
getting tired of flipping burgers, are you?
Anonymous said...
The real question is how many fires there are now compared to when the "minimum manning" was set. It has to be down at least 20%.
---------------------------------
Actually, since the Great Recession started, working fires have been UP. Extra alarms have decreased BECAUSE of minimum manning. That one extra person on a Fire Engine is the difference, allowing one engine company to drop 2 hose lines and get the fire under control as opposed to a 4 man engine only being able to drop 1 line and wait the extra 5 minutes for the 2nd engine to arrive and get water to the nozzle. By that time the fire is probably out of control and another alarm must be struck. There are plenty of studies backing this up, plus common sense dictates that extra manpower gets water to the fire faster. Now, 15-24 run days are common when 30 years ago, a 10 run day was extremely busy. Less men means more fatigue which leads to more injuries, both civilian and firefighters. Police and Fire manning cannot be set by past number of incidents, but by potental. Increasing the number of fire and police AFTER a major incident does absolutely nothing to help. If manning of both departments were adequate BEFORE the incident, that incident might not have been nearly as severe. Many people are alive today because of our properly manned fire department. I have never been in a car accident, should I cancel my car insurance one or two days a week to save money?
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