Dennis Byrne on Pensions
Illinois, the worst is yet to come.
All you state retirees: Do you really believe that your pension was in any way secured by those blow-off-the-roof income tax increases? All you hospitals and social services that are owed billions: Think that check will arrive soon?
Should we think that tax increases will halt the torrent of state borrowing that put us so deep in debt in the first place? Will it drag the state's credit rating from off the floor?
Truth is, you've been chumped. None of that is happening.
Make no mistake about it, pensions are going to be the hot button issue the next few years. The FOP really needs to think about getting in front of this issue with graphs and math and silly poster boards showing the problem isn't police and fire pensions, but politicians double and triple dipping, last minute boosts to pension multipliers for the connected and pensions that dwarf actual salaries drawn. It also couldn't hurt to point out that we contribute over 9% of our salary to our own pensions and, thanks to Rostenkowski, receive no Social Security.
UPDATE: post amended for percentage contributed.
UPDATE: post amended for percentage contributed.
Labels: pension
posted by SCC at 1:03 AM
131 Comments:
I would listen to Dennis Byrne, a fellow graduate of Marquette University.
Step one is obvious. Repeal the CPD "gold braid" legislation. It's nothing more than rewarding the clouted with political favoritism = $$$.
Late breaking bulletin: Promotions on da job are NOT on the legit. Duh!
WOW always bad news work all your life and have shit to show for it in the end...
I agree completely with the original post. It should also be pointed out that besides the 9% we each contribute,we are each also paying indirectly into the fund via property taxes etc.
I'd like to add do not think for a second our pension is secure and that includes for those already retired. IT IS NOT.Read the financial reports. Our fund alone is about $6 Billion underfunded and that is using the 8% annual projected return the actuary assumes. That is a lofty assumption. If you add up all the shorfalls in the city pension funds it's over $14 Billion and growing. Where can the city get this money from?
The CITY can and probably will file chapter 9 bankruptcy. As of now STATES cannot but there is legislation in the works in the U.S. Congress to change that.
To make it worse our fund is not in low risk investments,if there even is such a thing anymore.
$185 million in Venture Capital investments.
(I'd like to see those)
.The foreign currency exposure is huge $85 million of exposure to the British Pound!! That is a disaster waiting to happen. Add in the $10 mill annual management fees and $4 mill administrative fee per the 2009 report don't count on our pension.
There is going to be a lot of very unhappy campers soon.
if we are out of money does this mean that welfare also goes bankrupt--- if my pension is gone then the fucking link card and section 8 better be gone too---
I believe it's MORE than 9% we contribute.
And that we either a) get no social security, or b) if we are eligible by law, we only get a small percentage of what everyone else gets, whether they have an IRA or not.
Indiana's pension is something like 11 billion. They say they could cut a check for like a million dollars for every cop in Indiana. They saw a problem in the 70's and corrected it.
We've been paying in 9% for our pensions and we're going to get screwed very soon. I'm so glad they already took 50 or 60% of our social security away from us. That's right! Screw those greedy government employees! It's just great, we continue to get screwed on our pensions and no one cares.
If we told people who don't pay anything into social security that all they'd get was 40 or 45% of what was owed them, there'd be blood in the streets.
I started posting about the pension over 2 years ago. In fact, before I retired and moved out of the city. Mentioned the nonsense with the advisors buying cds, cmbs, cdo and the rest of the junk;
All of this should have been brought up with the contract- instead almost all the posts concerned the " retro" check.
As I stated years ago, the "investment advisors" that the pension fund chooses are very, very important. Some focus should be put on that item. Also, some entities are now looking to sue those firms that packaged the cdo, cmo-etc. nonsense. I think that is another avenue that should at least be explored.
old retired guy
the problem is every pension that governement supports, that includes fire and police. double and triple dipping doesnt help but it isnt the reason they are going to disappear. we are all going to be going to a 401k system, even the people already in the pensions, its ineveitable.
they have been working on the public the last few years and getting them against pensions for ppublic employees its part of the strategy. and now they are working on allowing states to file for bankruptcy. once that happens they dont have to pay into pensions, they are gone, and they have all the leverage to say 401k no more pension. everyone who thinks we will be grandfathered in is crazy, all it takes is a law to be passed thats it.
i wish they would just say it now and give me my money back to invest.
BANKRUPTCY IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER,WE ARE SCREWED!
Just do a search on Carol Ronen pension. She served Blago for 6 weeks and doubled her pension!
We contribute 9.5% of our pay to our pensions, not almost 9%.
Why should politicians get multible pensions? And will they get Social Security too?
SCC your fucking funny....... THE FLOP is too busy trying to fool everyone-its election time dude, they could give a crap they're too worried about what people are saying about them on the blog...
When have you known the FLOP to get in front of ANY STORY???????
Where have you been, SCC? FOP has been way out in front of the issue. FOP just secured the recent bill mandating adequate funding of the police pension over the objections of Daley.
I was told that if Chicago declares bankruptcy, creditors can go after our private deferred comp accounts as a way to collect from the city. The argument is that the City is actually is in possession and in control of these accounts because they are responsible for making the monthly payments until we eligible to take the money out, hence we cant take money out whenever we choose except for retirement, serious sickness and termination.
I do not believe this theory is correct but was told precedent in other cities that have declared bankruptcy proves this is true regarding our private deferred comp accounts and the ability for creditors to go after our money.
Does anyone have any ifacts on this?
Unlike the sentiment during the Great Depression, this new wave of social turmoil will be visited by middleclass workers advocating reform. In other words Revolution. I for one have played the game, worked hard, kept my nose clean and in the end, I was told, you will reap the benefits of this great democracy. Well, wasn't I the fool! If these dire predictions come true, look for problems in the street. History tells us the first sign will be the alienation of the police and the military. I think we might be there already!
thanks to Rostenkowski, receive no Social Security.
UPDATE: post amended for percentage contributed.
Labels: pension
*************************************
I hope he has a very "HOT" place in Hell !!!!!!!!!!!
Byrne has floated this crap every few months for years; it's part of the Trib's agenda. The New York Times just put out the "Bankrupt States" scenario. Stop for a moment and think about the result if all government workers (not political hacks) walked out. Beyond the obvious; cops, fire, prison guards, add water, transportation etc. The problem is real, but a lot of the posturing is scare tactics.
not a cop - retired state guy
Who is Dennis Byrne?
the fop is very weak on economic issues. No expertise, no education. D'alba was clowned in contract negotiations. Our presentation was childish. The fop doesn't have the horses for this fight.
AND ... yet they are allowed to give themselves raises. Go figure
What happens when the riots in Europe come here and your police and fire know they are getting screwed too. Who will put out the fires? Who will stand the line of law enforcement? The National Guard? Can they put out fires? Are there enough to replace all law enforcement? Wake up America!!! The difference between chaos and civility are the police and fire. Six Chicago policemen killed last year and for the month of January around the country several have been killed so far. This is not a game!! These are real people and real families that have shed real blood for a civil society. I am not sure if even another 911 (God forbid) would bring appreciation again!!!!
They are now gonna try to push, if you want to continue recieving your pension when retired, you will have to live in the city still! (whatever is left). So those retiring soon, don't move out to fast! Those that already left, get ready for cold winters again!
OT:
Can anyone verify if the lawyer Michael Kasper, representing Rahm Emanuel in his appeal to run for mayor is the same lawyer that our pension board trustees recently voted and hired to be the pension board lobbyist and also has ties to Madigan?
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!
The best and the brightest people on our planet are generally NOT elected officials. They are people who realize that their best opportunity to become financially secure, successful and comfortable, comes from the private sector.
That being said, why would any of us hold out hope that the dummies running our City Council, County Board, State legislature or US Congress have the smarts to get our economy turned around and save our pensions?
Quite simply, we're in deep shit!
I think that within 2-3 years, pensions of those still working will be drastically altered. Higher retirement age, more contributions, lower payouts, caps on payouts, etc. But, I do not think this will work and eventually the retirees will be effected. The funds will be out of money in 10-12 years so I do not think that they will wait that long to make changes. Bankruptcy? Yes, a real possibility for the city in the years to come. They do not want to do this because it effects the bond ratings and borrowing. I wonder if bankruptcy will effect the money in deferred comp? A real mess, a mess of the democrats making in every democratic controlled city and state in the country.No telling where this is going, but I do know one thing: You will not recognize the police and benefit package a few years from now.
And do not think for one minute our pension is not being bankrupted by meritoriously promoting persons who could never, ever, be more than a patrolman if promotion was based on their test performance. Repeal the "gold braid" giveaway and stop the rape of the pensio fund.
eliminate gold braid pension now
so police officers born after
jan 1, 1955 can receive a 3% cola increase , it's not fair blue shirts will not receive cola adjustment and most of our exempts are triple promoted merit that would be blue shirts if not for merit promotions receive a pension based on 160,000 salary
Expect a 50% hit in benifits.
The days of living decently after retirement are over... Be prepared to downsize to an apartment in a cheaper venue than Chicago. Be prepared to keep working. Get a second career specialization started now, before retirement. Get yourself healthy now, before retirement. Downsize to a small, fuel efficient used car. It's too bad, but life in America is only going to get harder.
Northside, send this guy back to Marquette where he came from!
We receive 40% of what we would be entitled to receive in social security.
Boo ya, he's got my vote....http://www.suntimes.com/3485937-417/chico-chicago-residency-rule-firefighters.html
Prior to declaring Bankruptcy, you must sell off your assets. So the City would be required to sell O'Hare Airport,Soldier Field, Lincoln Park Zoo, Buckingham Fountain. So cool your jets gloom & doomers.
OT. How come Rahm has to be a resident to run for Mayor but the Superintendant never even lived in Chicago before being hired???
Public pensions are a ponzi scheme; save 20% of your income, you're going to need it.
Well look at it this way... if they steal our pensions away from us and we have no social security... I guess they're going to have alot of homeless, hungry, angry people with guns out in the streets. It should prove to be very interesting what happens after that.
Anonymous said...
WOW always bad news work all your life and have shit to show for it in the end...
1/25/2011 01:52:00 AM
Then toss in a divorce while you are middle-aged that leaves you with less than shit to show for it.
The CITY can and probably will file chapter 9 bankruptcy. As of now STATES cannot but there is legislation in the works in the U.S. Congress to change that.
----
I am pretty sure there is talk of allowing states to declare bankruptcy, but no one has actually forwarded, or sponsored legislation. So, technically, it is not "in the works." But I get your point, it is a possibility.
This is not going to end well.
If the city declares bankruptcy, all labor contracts will be void and pensioners will be unsecured creditors who are last in line for repayment. Things like pay, comp time, senority and furlo will be in question as well.
The city has everything to gain from this.
NorthSide said...
Step one is obvious. Repeal the CPD "gold braid" legislation. It's nothing more than rewarding the clouted with political favoritism = $$$.
-----
If the State of Illinois finds a way to "repeal" the gold braid pension by finding a legal measure to "tamper" with the state constitution, THEN they will find a way to minimize ALL of OUR pensions next.
Instead of living your retirement out in Lincoln Park you will spend the rest of your days in a flee bag room in Calumet City.
Anonymous said...
WOW always bad news work all your life and have shit to show for it in the end...
1/25/2011 01:52:00 AM
Fuck the pension, I just want to complete the mission.
Thank you SCC. Things would be worse without you. Even though you don't print all my great posts.
WOW always bad news work all your life and have shit to show for it in the end...
1/25/2011 01:52:00 AM
that's because you chose to not board the 'cheaters' train before it left the station.
Here's a troubling fact:
a lazy, good for nothing, never worked a day, street corner malt liquour drinking, single cigarette smoking, slack ass droopy drawered crack head public school dropout, former GD, welfare sponge will collect, via currency exchange direct deposit, over $700 a month from the Social Sec Adm (SSI) for absolutely nothing.
While Rostenkowki rots in his gave, you as a government employee, facing a bankrupt pension fund, will only have around $400 a month max (if you worked in the private sector previously)for a lifetime of working 2-3 jobs, 6-7 days a week.
Don't expect the politicians to give up their pension benefits on your behalf. It will only apply to the working chumps.
What it comes down to is that the city, and state leaders have lied to us. They were entrusted to make matching contributions to our pension funds -- they diverted the money to pet projects instead -- empower themselves, their friends and relatives at our expense.
They lied. Their words and promises are meaningless.
Now.. they all play us as the greedy bad guys and we have to take the cuts because they mis-managed the programs and took the money.
Why is no-one held accountable?! Why?
They don't feel that they can get away with more tax increases so now comes the next best thing.
Now, after stealing our future retirement plans they will rob our children with cuts to education and steal their future.
This shell game has to end.
Demonize the entitlements that we earned is the propaganda we see in the media. These are not gifts my friends THEY WERE EARNED!
Either your words mean something or they don't -- which is it?
Nevertheless but hey, flood the schools with illegal immigrants and pile on the debt on top of the cuts as we can use THIS crisis to distract you from THAT crisis and not let it be wasted!
Parade the doe-eyed children in front of the TV camera's like terrorist with hostages demanding more, higher taxes..It's for the kids don't you know? Yeah it's for the kids. hah!
It's sickening what these clout driven politicians have created,
no pension,no work!!!!!!
One problem is that they assume an 8% rate of return. That's very unrealistic.
Today I saw a very reputable bank offering 3.25% rate of return on a 10 Year CD. Most passbook savings accounts are only paying less than 1% interest.
The fund managers throw caution out the window, and get into "high risk" investments to increase the rate-of-return and increase their commissions. But what happens instead is they get their commissions, and we LOSE our money when their investment strategy doesn't pan out!
chico says he could be open to lifting residency,but what would we have to give up?
I would rather take the money and invest it in myslef.
Allow a Casino in Chicago to fully fund the pensions, once the pensions are fully funded, then money can be used in the general operating budget.
An E-mail from my Brother Tom Moran with the CFD;
Publish with anyone and everywhere you can.
POLICE AND FIRE ALERT! ALERT!!
ALERT!!!
Hey RahmEmanuel
How can you just change peoples pensions who have
paid into them and worked for them for 10,20,30 years and just say we
are going to reduce your benefits!
I’m getting sick and tired of hearing all the
whining about the tax increase to FINALLY force the city to pay their
STATE LAW MANDATED contributions. All I hear is this liberal
media and misinformed public place the blame on the
workers.
1. We (the workers!) have always paid our share of
our pension contributions!
2. This situation arose because of one reason and
ONE reason only! The THIEVING politicians failing to pay their share,
that is state law mandated, into the funds. Also stealing money from
the funds to pay their relatives for FAILED investments, help pay for
needless parks on just about every block, concrete planters blocking
every main thoroughfare in the city, a big CHROME KIDNEY, etc, etc,
etc…!!!
3. I am sick of hearing about how
spoiled we are. Our pensions are no better than most trades in the
private sector. We took this lower paying job that forced us to live
in the MUCH higher cost-of-living city because of the
benefits. Most of us got paid much less than comparable
positions outside the city. But now that the politicians didn’t live
up to their end of their financial responsibility, the media and
uninformed public wants to blame us workers. ---- Well sorry, I’m not
buying it and have NO sympathy for the tax increase. If anyone paid
any attention to what YOUR elected officials were doing, instead of
worrying about another pee park for “FiFi”, we wouldn’t be in this
mess! If this type of financial mismanagement happened anywhere except
in the “ Kingdom of Richie ”, federal indictments would have been filed
LONG AGO!
Remember
Rahm it is the Police and Firemen that make this city as safe as they
can!!!! I for one will tell all my family and friends not to vote for
someone who will sink so low as to steal from police and firefighters
pension because of mishandled misgoverned underhanded backdoor dealing
corrupt political system that you have been a part of for so
long.
Let’s hope that you have not already successfully
duped john doe into believing that there police and firefighters are
the enemy
Do something about these 20 years plus hacks on disability with the CPD who magically recuperate enough to get jobs on the CCSP so they can spend 10 more years of doing nothing and collect another pension.
Do something about these 20 years plus hacks on disability with the CPD who magically recuperate enough to get jobs on the CCSP so they can spend 10 more years of doing nothing and collect another pension.
The SEC is investigating Il. pension funding. Now what?
OT but important:
Webb Chevy fired a salesman for wearing a packers tie. WTF!
So what if webb has/had an advert. deal with the Bears.
I suppose that Packer fans are not welcomed in webb's auto showrooms.
Pension Revolt!
A day of reckoning is well on its way!! Yes, prepare for it to hit the fan. Make damn sure you have at least six months of cash on hand....no better yet..in hand. Six months of food and then hold onto your hats. We are all in for a ride!! Seriously. When no one has the money to put into pensions and the like...welllll, be ready for the irresponsible thing to do....file bankruptcy. Wha...you say states can not file....well, there is talk in Congress now on how to have states to that very thing. Impossible? Not with this government. Watch and see how this all comes about. No state will be sovereign any more. The feds can't do it, but they pass legislation to do so. The feds?...they'll just print more money.
The only real way to get this whole budget in control...is to raise the retirement age to 67 for all government employees. Give the police and fire departments their pensions intact. Revised any new police and fire from the beginning. All current government employees have their pensions convert them all into 401k's. Don't like it...to bad. The private sector has to suck ass too. Time for all the well paid government workers to man up and live with it! Kinda like us common folk been doing all along.
what about boobie steel , cook county commissioner acting as president of count bd for a couple months and receives more than her cook county commissioner salary
it's not police , fireman or teachers , it's politicians and gold braid police (political appointments) that are giving gov't pensions a bad rap
We need a change in our union. It really is that simple. We all know what we have now will lay down,we can only hope putting in new blood will fight for us.
First of all, lets etsblish that getting rid of the gold braid and the double dipping politicians will clean up our problem. There are thousands of us, there are only a few hundred?? of them. Cutting their excess would be a small blip. A correct move, but it will not solve our problem.
Lets face it, we are living longer and we are allowed to retire younger. It does not add up.
We need to pay more into our pension as well as get the city to pay more into the pension.
How come the FOP is silent about telling our side of the story with the pensions, the city is not meeting their end of the bargain in funding the pension. Isn't it supposed to be 2 to 1 by contract?
I know they take out 9% of my check. Is the city putting in their 18% like they are supposed to by contract?
Why aren't we getting this out to the media?
Downstate police pension fund participants contribute 9.91% per pay period. I am not sure about the exact number that Chicago Police pension fund participants contribute though.
A letter sent to all Fire and Police from my Brother with the CFD
POLICE AND FIRE ALERT! ALERT!!
ALERT!!!
Hey RahmEmanuel
How can you just change peoples pensions who have
paid into them and worked for them for 10,20,30 years and just say we
are going to reduce your benefits!
I’m getting sick and tired of hearing all the
whining about the tax increase to FINALLY force the city to pay their
STATE LAW MANDATED contributions. All I hear is this liberal
media and misinformed public place the blame on the
workers.
1. We (the workers!) have always paid our share of
our pension contributions!
2. This situation arose because of one reason and
ONE reason only! The THIEVING politicians failing to pay their share,
that is state law mandated, into the funds. Also stealing money from
the funds to pay their relatives for FAILED investments, help pay for
needless parks on just about every block, concrete planters blocking
every main thoroughfare in the city, a big CHROME KIDNEY, etc, etc,
etc…!!!
3. I am sick of hearing about how
spoiled we are. Our pensions are no better than most trades in the
private sector. We took this lower paying job that forced us to live
in the MUCH higher cost-of-living city because of the
benefits. Most of us got paid much less than comparable
positions outside the city. But now that the politicians didn’t live
up to their end of their financial responsibility, the media and
uninformed public wants to blame us workers. ---- Well sorry, I’m not
buying it and have NO sympathy for the tax increase. If anyone paid
any attention to what YOUR elected officials were doing, instead of
worrying about another pee park for “FiFi”, we wouldn’t be in this
mess! If this type of financial mismanagement happened anywhere except
in the “ Kingdom of Richie ”, federal indictments would have been filed
LONG AGO!
Remember
Rahm it is the Police and Firemen that make this city as safe as they
can!!!! I for one will tell all my family and friends not to vote for
someone who will sink so low as to steal from police and firefighters
pension because of mishandled misgoverned underhanded backdoor dealing
corrupt political system that you have been a part of for so
long.
Let’s hope that you have not already successfully
duped john doe into believing that there police and firefighters are
the enemy
QUESTION:
1). Would you rather go to a 401k system like the federal system has if you have LESS than 10 yrs on?
2). Would you rather go to a 401k system like the federal system has if you have MORE than 10 yrars on?
We must stand together and demand that the size of the FOP be reduced. We are paying dues to pay salaries to too many people and what for? We do not need FOUR vice presidents. We need to shave off excess where we can. We have control over this one. We also need to have the pension reps negotiate with the city to have these firms that oversee our already severely reduce account, reduce their fees. We are keeping a blind eye to those things we can at least ASK for. Its your money and my money. We need to start with what we can change and this we CAN demand. No more excess officers on unaccountable jobs. One president and a secretary and treasurer. Down with the excess free jobs. And reduce our contributions accordingly. We already are bleeding and have to save for our freakin retirements. I have had it!
Anonymous said...
We receive 40% of what we would be entitled to receive in social security.
1/25/2011 11:12:00 AM
#####################
1). It is no where near 40%.
2). That is only for those that have the quarters into social security.
Not all have those quarters.
And the way social security is going they may change that as well.
The Obama does not value the eldery in this country and could care less. To this administration, the elderly are nothing more than a burden.
Check out the article on "Principles for allocation of scarce medical interventions" -
www.thelancet.com Vol. 373 January 31,2009.
Written by none other than the Rahmster's brother Ezekiel J. Emanuel among others.
Here is a quote form the article:
1st paragraph:
We recommend an alternative system - the complete lives system - which prioritises younger people who have not yet lived a complete life, and also incorporates prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and instrumental value principles."
Instead of living your retirement out in Lincoln Park you will spend the rest of your days in a flee bag room in Calumet City.
I will still be a Republican.
Public pensions are a ponzi scheme; save 20% of your income, you're going to need it.
HAHAHAHAHA 20% that's a good one. You sure can live off that HAHAHAHA~
I was worried about living off of 75%
Your to funny save 20% HAHAHAHA You fail History Now I know you fail Math.
"Well look at it this way... if they steal our pensions away from us and we have no social security... I guess they're going to have alot of homeless, hungry, angry people with guns out in the streets. It should prove to be very interesting what happens after that."
Interesting times indeed. You won't be able to tell the bad guys from the cops on the street. Men will do what they have to do to feed their families and survive.
Doom and Gloomers. Is it bad? Yes it is. But states filing for bankruptcy is the last thing they want to do. It affects credit rating. Nobody will borrow those states any money unless interest rate is 20% or higher. There are hugh US Constitutional hurdles to overcome. Is there talk of this? Yes, but it's only talk and rhetoric by Republicans to force states into cutting their budgets and getting their financial houses in order. The US Government bailed out all the corrupt Wall Street bankers, but they're already on record dismissing a "bail out" of states.
Regarding the shitty City of Chicago. In order for the city to declare bankruptcy they will have to open the books and PROVE they don't have the resources to pay. Everything is in play then. Tax increases, TIFF funds, etc. The city would be forced to liquidate ALL assets first and/or use those assets to pay creditors.
While I agree that all politicians is a lying scumbag, don't let the noise force you to do stupid shit. Bottom line. Spend less. Pay off your debt. Save MORE and live within your means. Work a part-time if you can. You'll be fine.
I was told that if Chicago declares bankruptcy, creditors can go after our private deferred comp accounts as a way to collect from the city. The argument is that the City is actually is in possession and in control of these accounts because they are responsible for making the monthly payments until we eligible to take the money out, hence we cant take money out whenever we choose except for retirement, serious sickness and termination.
I do not believe this theory is correct but was told precedent in other cities that have declared bankruptcy proves this is true regarding our private deferred comp accounts and the ability for creditors to go after our money.
Does anyone have any ifacts on this?
Yeah its simple, your money you contributed. Would they take away a 401K or you savings acct.?? Duh
Byrne has floated this crap every few months for years; it's part of the Trib's agenda. The New York Times just put out the "Bankrupt States" scenario. Stop for a moment and think about the result if all government workers (not political hacks) walked out. Beyond the obvious; cops, fire, prison guards, add water, transportation etc. The problem is real, but a lot of the posturing is scare tactics.
not a cop - retired state guy
I agree. As history has proven there are people that use scare tactics and the lemmings follow....
They are now gonna try to push, if you want to continue recieving your pension when retired, you will have to live in the city still! (whatever is left). So those retiring soon, don't move out to fast! Those that already left, get ready for cold winters again!
Where do you come up with this?? We live in a country with rights, its not the old soviet union. WTF
eliminate gold braid pension now
so police officers born after
jan 1, 1955 can receive a 3% cola increase , it's not fair blue shirts will not receive cola adjustment and most of our exempts are triple promoted merit that would be blue shirts if not for merit promotions receive a pension based on 160,000 salary
They need to pass the bill, which the pension someone receives is from their in grade rank and not exempt rank
The only real way to get this whole budget in control...is to raise the retirement age to 67 for all government employees. Give the police and fire departments their pensions intact. Revised any new police and fire from the beginning. All current government employees have their pensions convert them all into 401k's. Don't like it...to bad. The private sector has to suck ass too. Time for all the well paid government workers to man up and live with it! Kinda like us common folk been doing all along.
FU. not what I signed on for. You sit behind a desk and talk shit common man. Get a clue
Well stated SCC I agree 100%.
“In Chicago, 50,000-plus teachers, policemen, firemen own homes here and they pay taxes here and that supports city services,” Jackson said, after the Illinois Appellate Court ruling that temporarily bumped Emanuel from the ballot as a result of a challenge to his residency.
“If that law is broken or compromised … if that door is cracked, police and teachers and firemen and city servants will live outside the city and take with them their homes and their tax base.”
Even Jackson knows the "middle class" pays for everything in this city. Daley wants to use the police and fire to support the city, however he doesnt support us.
Chico better be careful, because many citizens live in the city because they like police and fire as neighbors. There would be a major shift in this city, not only city workers but many others as well.
OT:
Can anyone verify if the lawyer Michael Kasper, representing Rahm Emanuel in his appeal to run for mayor is the same lawyer that our pension board trustees recently voted and hired to be the pension board lobbyist and also has ties to Madigan?
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!
Yes he is! Shields brought him to the pension board meeting at the academy.
Anonymous said...
How come the FOP is silent about telling our side of the story with the pensions, the city is not meeting their end of the bargain in funding the pension. Isn't it supposed to be 2 to 1 by contract?
I know they take out 9% of my check. Is the city putting in their 18% like they are supposed to by contract?
Why aren't we getting this out to the media?
1/25/2011 05:19:00 PM
The FOP is silent on almost everything. They are running for re-election.
They are busy getting donations from lawyers and businesses that the FOP does business with.
How come the FOP is silent about telling our side of the story with the pensions, the city is not meeting their end of the bargain in funding the pension. Isn't it supposed to be 2 to 1 by contract?
I know they take out 9% of my check. Is the city putting in their 18% like they are supposed to by contract?
Why aren't we getting this out to the media?
1/25/2011 05:19:00 PM
The city has been putting in 2-1. With the new bill that was signed by Quinn we will be properly funded.
If fucking Rahm gets in that is the end for me, for goddamn fucking sure. He'll never get me to doing anything other than cover my own ass from election day forward.
what about boobie steel , cook county commissioner acting as president of count bd for a couple months and receives more than her cook county commissioner salary
it's not police , fireman or teachers , it's politicians and gold braid police (political appointments) that are giving gov't pensions a bad rap
1/25/2011 04:46:00 PM
True dat. How about the retired exempts that went from to the CPD directly into another city/pension job: Byrne, Starks, to name a few.
Why aren't we getting this out to the media?
1/25/2011 05:19:00 PM
the media is deaf, dumb and blind, by choice.
I would rather take the money and invest it in myslef.
1/25/2011 03:24:00 PM
is that company listed on nasdaq?
I was told that if Chicago declares bankruptcy, creditors can go after our private deferred comp accounts as a way to collect from the city. The argument is that the City is actually is in possession and in control of these accounts because they are responsible for making the monthly payments until we eligible to take the money out, hence we cant take money out whenever we choose except for retirement, serious sickness and termination.
I do not believe this theory is correct but was told precedent in other cities that have declared bankruptcy proves this is true regarding our private deferred comp accounts and the ability for creditors to go after our money.
Does anyone have any ifacts on this?
1/25/2011 08:39:00 AM
Read the fine print in your Nationwide contract. It clearly states that you are considered a "creditor" to the the City. Who gets screwed in bankruptcy proceedings? The Creditor!!!
Not a cop. First and foremost, is it true that politicians who work a part time gig, get 80% after 10 years, also can double and triple dip, and can get increases based on just a day at a new gig? Why is that not eliminated immediately? Take it to court, we cannot afford that. First responders should get all that is due to them. My dad was a paramedic and the crap he put up with and now to be told he may not get his pension is insane. While some desk jockey who is a blood sucking lawyer by day and a 100k plus alderbeast on the side gets two checks? That is a punch in the gut
I think we have bigger worries. With bankruptcy comes contract nolification. Say bye to medical, health care, seniority rights...
Why is there never any mention of cutting -
SSI
Link
Section 8
Just asking ??
if we are out of money does this mean that welfare also goes bankrupt--- if my pension is gone then the fucking link card and section 8 better be gone too---
No. They always find money for the unwashed masses.
What really will be funny is when the economy starts it's upswing (some say it already has begun), then there will be money for just about every pork barrel project a politician can think of.
Of course, when the pension issue is brought up, that will be the only problem that won't be solved.
"How come the FOP is silent about telling our side of the story with the pensions, the city is not meeting their end of the bargain in funding the pension. Isn't it supposed to be 2 to 1 by contract?
I know they take out 9% of my check. Is the city putting in their 18% like they are supposed to by contract?
Why aren't we getting this out to the media?"
The 2:1 city match is outdated and has existed since 1982. The current rate should be 5.87:1 ($5.87 city deposit for every $1 member deposit).
Here's a good article about cities declaring bankruptcy. Well worth the read. It shows that bankruptcy would be the last thing Chicago would do, considering the lasting effect it would have on it and the surrounding suburbs.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1979629/posts
"i wish they would just say it now and give me my money back to invest."
Don't you see that that's the problem?
They've already spent your money. On other things like LINK, etc.
Anonymous said...
The days of living decently after retirement are over... Be prepared to downsize to an apartment in a cheaper venue than Chicago. Be prepared to keep working. Get a second career specialization started now, before retirement. Get yourself healthy now, before retirement. Downsize to a small, fuel efficient used car. It's too bad, but life in America is only going to get harder.
1/25/2011 10:50:00 AM
But illegals get free college and healthcare . China gets 65 million in U.S. aid. We have to bear the cost of defending Europe, Korea, Japan. Sorry cut all that shit first.
Anonymous said...
Allow a Casino in Chicago to fully fund the pensions, once the pensions are fully funded, then money can be used in the general operating budget.
1/25/2011 03:58:00 PM
Like the lottery funded schools. You need to call 1-800-4 gamblers.
"I think that within 2-3 years, pensions of those still working will be drastically altered. Higher retirement age, more contributions, lower payouts, caps on payouts, etc."
Uh, yeah. They just passed that law in Illinois.
"Prior to declaring Bankruptcy, you must sell off your assets. So the City would be required to sell O'Hare Airport,Soldier Field, Lincoln Park Zoo, Buckingham Fountain."
Daley's already been doing this. Your statement isn't making me feel very confident...Just another feature in Daley's Legacy.
"How come Rahm has to be a resident to run for Mayor but the Superintendant never even lived in Chicago before being hired???"
The city ordinance says that you have to RESIDE in the city for one year prior to being eligible to run for mayor.
Weis is just a contract employee.
"It's for the kids don't you know? Yeah it's for the kids. hah!"
I'm with ya'! They've set a fine example for the children; they're liars and their word is meaningless.
I was promised a pension 27 years ago just like the bosses including burn, daley, Huberman etc
Now all of a sudden you are going to change the rules?
HMMM.....ok.
Let's really change the rules. No pension for any public servant including judges (who are making beaucoup bucks) and Congress people, aldermen, senators etc. Let's save a whole bunch o money!
"One problem is that they assume an 8% rate of return. That's very unrealistic...The fund managers throw caution out the window, and get into "high risk" investments to increase the rate-of-return and increase their commissions. But what happens instead is they get their commissions, and we LOSE our money when their investment strategy doesn't pan out!"
The 8% is an arbitrary industry standard that allows investors to compare one fund to the next. It's obviously not a guaranteed return.
As far as their strategy not panning out goes, well there's always risk associated with investment, whether you're in stocks, bonds, playing the lottery, at an Indiana casino or at Arlington Park plaing the ponies, you're betting that you're going to get back more than you invest.
If you want a "sure thing", put it in the bank...the return is known, but it's low.
If you're doing this stock market/deferred comp thing correctly, you're spending a minimum of 15 minutes per fund, per week doing research on your money. Yes, YOUR MONEY. If you simply give it to Nationwide Retirement Solutions and forget it, you're perhaps a little too trusting.
Prior to going bankrupt, the city MUST sell the most important asset....
THE LAKE WATER AND LAKEFRONT
think about it.
And they will not.
Or have they already sold our water to China?
"I was told that if Chicago declares bankruptcy, creditors can go after our private deferred comp accounts as a way to collect from the city."
Didn't this happen in Orange County, California some years ago?
Risks of Deferred-Compensation Plans
January 14, 1995|KATHY M. KRISTOF
Little-understood risks about deferred-compensation plans are being uncovered in the Orange County financial debacle.
County employees were told last week that they will lose 10% of the $85 million they collectively had saved for retirement in the county-sponsored plan. Instead of paying promised benefits, the county will use a portion of the workers' savings to pay other creditors--essentially confiscating money that public employees had earned and saved.
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-01-14/business/fi-19831_1_deferred-compensation-plans
"Mock city rises at Marine base for urban training."
"A mock city roughly the size of downtown San Diego has risen in a remote Southern California desert to train military forces to fight in urban environments."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110125/ap_on_re_us/us_marine_urban_training
Is the G preparing for the urban unrest that is sure to follow firefighters, police & other city workers walking off the job once pay and benefits are cut?
BANKRUPT?
STATES HAVE CREDIT RATING TOO.
IF U THINK A CITY OR STATE CAN GO BANKRUPT AND THEN HAVE NO REPERCUSSIONS U R MISTAKEN.
ITS CALLED LEVERAGE IF PEOPLE KEEP SAYING U WILL LOSE UR PENSION THEN U WILL AGREE TO LOSE SOME BENEFITS.
THE CITY IS GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT IT WANTS TO DO WITH OLDER WORKERS WHO USE THE MEDICAL MUCH MORE OFTEN AND ARE AT THE TOP OF THE WAGE SCALE AND TIME OFF.
REMEMBER FURLOUGH DAYS IT STARTED WITH LITTLE NUMBERS LIKE 12. THE CITY LET U PICK WHEN U WOULD TAKE OFF.
NOW OTHER DEPARTMENTS WILL GET HIT WITH MORE UNPAID DAYS AND THE CITY WANTS TO PICK WHEN U TAKE OFF.
THE FOP IS GOING TO HAVE A WHOPPER OF A CONTRACT TO NEGOTIATE.
MAY BE ITS TIME FOR THE FOP TO HAVE DEBATES! WE ARE TALKING TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
We need a change in our union. It really is that simple. We all know what we have now will lay down,we can only hope putting in new blood will fight for us.
Again its all about you, This is the Whole state you have to get with the other unions. Police have a bad reputation because they NEVER Stand as brothers with other unions in other words you are only for your own union that needs to change. the me me me thing????
the problem is every pension that governement supports, that includes fire and police. double and triple dipping doesnt help but it isnt the reason they are going to disappear. we are all going to be going to a 401k system, even the people already in the pensions, its ineveitable.
they have been working on the public the last few years and getting them against pensions for ppublic employees its part of the strategy.
And tell us who they are I know yet this blog never puts it in. WHY?
We need a change at the FOP. People have been sounding the alarm on this issue for several years and the FOP has done nothing. Why no response from Greg and the boys to the constant bashing of the Police and other public employees over their pensions? We need to get our side of the story out there. I think that Shields is better qualified on the pension issue.
HAHAHAHAHA 20% that's a good one. You sure can live off that HAHAHAHA~
I was worried about living off of 75%
Your to funny save 20% HAHAHAHA You fail History Now I know you fail Math
To the person posting above.
You are an idiot plain and simple
Does anyone know who Jim Rogers is?
He is recognized as one of if not the worlds all time greatest private investor. Turned a few thousand into over a Billion dollars amongst other things.
He is a financial genius to put it mildly. He has a 40 year public track record, along with knowledge of goverments and was in Chicago 2 weeks ago. Well I sent him an email recently and one issue I brought up was our pension. Believe it or not he responded. If anyone is interested I can paste a copy here. He confirmed what I've been worried about.
Anonymous said...
Prior to going bankrupt, the city MUST sell the most important asset....
THE LAKE WATER AND LAKEFRONT
think about it.
And they will not.
1/25/2011 11:45:00 PM
And what if shortshanks privatizes the water system before he slithers out the door in a few months?
Bobbie Steele about doubled her pension for doing a couple of months as acting president of Cook County Board.
Toddster get a pension as alderman and CCB President.
But it is all our fault.
And how many of the extended Stroger family got to slop at the public trough bumping their pensions and stealing from the treasury?
I was told that if Chicago declares bankruptcy, creditors can go after our private deferred comp accounts as a way to collect from the city. The argument is that the City is actually is in possession and in control of these accounts because they are responsible for making the monthly payments until we eligible to take the money out, hence we cant take money out whenever we choose except for retirement, serious sickness and termination.
I do not believe this theory is correct but was told precedent in other cities that have declared bankruptcy proves this is true regarding our private deferred comp accounts and the ability for creditors to go after our money.
Does anyone have any ifacts on this?
This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. It is absolutely not true. The city is not making any monthly payments to anything. The money that is being sent into that account is YOURS at YOUR direction. That money is coming directly from YOUR paycheck. You could lower the amount, raise the amount, and you could stop contributing altogether tomorrow if you wanted. The reason you can't just take that money out when you want is because it is a tax DEFFERED account which basically means that you owe the goverment taxes on all of that money in there because it was taken out of your paycheck before you payed taxes on it. So upon retirement you will take payments from the account which you will then pay the deferred taxes on. The city does not own the account and the city isn't contributing a fucking dime to it. It's YOUR money and nobody can go after it to settle city debts.
"How come the FOP is silent about telling our side of the story with the pensions, the city is not meeting their end of the bargain in funding the pension. Isn't it supposed to be 2 to 1 by contract?
I know they take out 9% of my check. Is the city putting in their 18% like they are supposed to by contract?
Why aren't we getting this out to the media?"
Yes the city is putting in the money they are suppose to. The trustees on the board are not investing it wisely and we are living longer.
How come the FOP is silent about telling our side of the story with the pensions, the city is not meeting their end of the bargain in funding the pension. Isn't it supposed to be 2 to 1 by contract?
I know they take out 9% of my check. Is the city putting in their 18% like they are supposed to by contract?
Why aren't we getting this out to the media?
1/25/2011 05:19:00 PM
Hey, dummy. Getting "it" out on the media won't accomplish shit. All it will do it let the poor private sector slobs that have to work till they die know that you will get 50% of salary forever for only 20 years service and 75% for 29 years. Media relations aren't going to help us on this issue. We need to hold on to what we got.
re: Jim Rogers
I'd be interested in hearing what he had to say.
I'm sure it's not good news.
Believe it or not he responded. If anyone is interested I can paste a copy here. He confirmed what I've been worried about.
1/26/2011 02:53:00 AM
I share your worry and I want to read his opinion.
Public pensions are a ponzi scheme; save 20% of your income, you're going to need it.
HAHAHAHAHA 20% that's a good one. You sure can live off that HAHAHAHA~
I was worried about living off of 75%
Your to funny save 20% HAHAHAHA You fail History Now I know you fail Math.
You're wrong. Spouse & I saved 20% & have considerably over $1mil in stocks...
Anonymous said...
"Mock city rises at Marine base for urban training."
"A mock city roughly the size of downtown San Diego has risen in a remote Southern California desert to train military forces to fight in urban environments."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110125/ap_on_re_us/us_marine_urban_training
Is the G preparing for the urban unrest that is sure to follow firefighters, police & other city workers walking off the job once pay and benefits are cut?
Hey dick head take it easy........ it s used to train marines before they deploy..............
Public pensions are a ponzi scheme; save 20% of your income, you're going to need it.
HAHAHAHAHA 20% that's a good one. You sure can live off that HAHAHAHA~
I was worried about living off of 75%
Your to funny save 20% HAHAHAHA You fail History Now I know you fail Math.
I think they meant save 20% a year.
The only real way to get this whole budget in control...is to raise the retirement age to 67 for all government employees. Give the police and fire departments their pensions intact. Revised any new police and fire from the beginning. All current government employees have their pensions convert them all into 401k's. Don't like it...to bad. The private sector has to suck ass too. Time for all the well paid government workers to man up and live with it! Kinda like us common folk been doing all along.
FU. not what I signed on for. You sit behind a desk and talk shit common man. Get a clue
1/25/2011 08:06:00 PM
That's a load of nonsense. I made investment decisions and prioritized my savings based upon a guaranteed and promised income as long as I fulfilled my obligation. I did so.
There is absolutely no more right to steal my promised and contracted-for pension than to start demanding percentages of private savings accounts. Changing rules after the game is over is ludicrous. It is no more egrigious to say that the state promised too much, you have to give up your contractually guaranteed benefit that you exchanged consideration, both service and monetary contribution for, than to say the state promised too much, you have to give up part of your privately earned savings.
You were guaranteed your savings would be yours.
I accepted a guarantee my contributions would be returned at a guaranteed formula and be mine.
I keep hearing this whining that we should have our futures stolen to fund someone elses. Funny, when private sector was getting huge salary bumps, perks and 401K match contributions I didn't hear anyone trumpeting that we should get more for "fairness".
I pay taxes just like you. I am not allowed to participate in social security. How about we close up SS to fund the pensions? Why not? No different, except the pension is a guaranteed and specific job benefit, promised in exchage for my services and monetary contributions, not a general government program.
ARTICLE XIII
GENERAL PROVISIONS
SECTION 5. PENSION AND RETIREMENT RIGHTS
Membership in any pension or retirement system of the
State, any unit of local government or school district, or
any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an
enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which
shall not be diminished or impaired.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)
To those who think a creditor of the city can't touch your deferred, read what is happening in Orange County, CA., deferred fund ordered to pay 10% of the total fund to creditors of the county. Orange County filed bankrupt.
Does anyone know who Jim Rogers is?
He is recognized as one of if not the worlds all time greatest private investor. Turned a few thousand into over a Billion dollars amongst other things.
He is a financial genius to put it mildly. He has a 40 year public track record, along with knowledge of goverments and was in Chicago 2 weeks ago. Well I sent him an email recently and one issue I brought up was our pension. Believe it or not he responded. If anyone is interested I can paste a copy here. He confirmed what I've been worried about.
I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HE HAD TO SAY
1/25/2011 05:43:00 PM
Too late...
The general public have made up their minds that The Police, Fire and other municipal employees are the enemy thanks to the masterful media manipulation and exploitation of difficult times by Daley Inc.
As for the Police?
It is beyond irony that everyone is spoiling for a fight with The Police solely because they're the most visible arm of incompetent government instead of standing with The Police to help destroy government that is blind and deaf the the needs and desires of those who actually have a vested ownership stake in this city.
Muthafuck the non-contributors and their supporters... All the freebies, giveaways and sanctuary city bullshit has ruined Chicago as a place to live and raise a family.
All the haters posting online and OPENLY AND BRAZENLY SHIT TALKING COPPERS IN THE FIELD WHILE THEY'RE ON DUTY, need to stop with the stinkin' thinkin'.
Yes! People are openly telling coppers "fuck you and your pension too!"
And these same people are up in arms about where Coppers want to live?
If "fuck you and your pension too" is what the public is offering then why should they care whether Policemen live in the city or not?
They really shouldn't care then, if every Copper either picked up if they could or said "fuck you too" and section 8'ed every piece of property they had.
Oh? Where does it say that Coppers can't get pissed off? Why can't all the high minded, romantic notions the public is so enamored of in regard to Police taking all kinds of abuse and mistreatment without fighting back?
Everybody can strike a blow in their defense except the Policeman.
So ironic that the people have forfeited vision and discernment and are so weak minded to buy into a stuttering, stunted village idiot's wet dream of an attempt at utterly destroying a premier law enforcement agency out of sheer spite.
We've become convinced, as we draw near the end of our 20+ year law enforcement sojourn, that there are deeply embedded mental pathologies endemic to the general populace of this city.
Why not? The continued re-election of a thieving circus dwarf is one of the many glaring examples we can point to.
It is quite possible this city is beyond saving.
Our prediction is coming true...
The working middle class will be reduced to a shell of it's former self and those who remain will be held captive and hunted down on the streets to render financial support to the catered to constituents.
The middle class are becoming slaves.
The wealthy will remain unscathed.
The non-contributors are the kings and queens of the city.
The people of Chicago have lost their minds
Didnt elected officials sign all the contracts that involve union pensions on behalf of the electorat. Did not the same elected politicians get raises and increased pension benefits that they also signed into law. If pensions are in trouble, then the peolple need to go after the elected that signed the contracts and passed the laws. A good start would be first taking away the elected's pensions and benefits. Then sue the same politicians for misappropriation of funds and failure to perform in their best intrest. Next go after those that live like leaches on the public through welfare reform that should promote self reliance. Truth be told, the welfare system is designed to keep a voter base enslaved to government on the backs of the free markets tax paying citizen. After those two things are done then come after our pensions.
Just imagine someone like Da Mayor or Ex Govenor loosing all their pensions and being sued for all they are worth first. They did sign all those contracts on behalf of the citizens that elected them. Then imagine going to the store standing in a check out line with people that use their own money to pay for food, not your money with a LINK card while talking on a cell phone that you pay for, before driving away in a Lexus with 22 inch rims a loud stereo and a handicap placard in the window.
"Where am I wrong" is not a question of spelling or grammer. It's the question of ideas.
I was told that if Chicago declares bankruptcy, creditors can go after our private deferred comp accounts as a way to collect from the city. The argument is that the City is actually is in possession and in control of these accounts because they are responsible for making the monthly payments until we eligible to take the money out, hence we cant take money out whenever we choose except for retirement, serious sickness and termination.
I do not believe this theory is correct but was told precedent in other cities that have declared bankruptcy proves this is true regarding our private deferred comp accounts and the ability for creditors to go after our money.
Does anyone have any ifacts on this?
***
The deferred comp should be considered a liability to the city, not an asset. If the city were to use those funds to pay other obligations, you then would become "preferred creditors", and be eligible to regain some, if not all, of those funds.
However, if the SEC has jurisdiction, you may have to wait a year or two before you can withdraw funds, as the SEC will have to determine if the plan was legit.
IANAL, but that's how it works when private sector companies go bankrupt and 401(k)s are involved.
Also, the since the city is self-insured WRT health insurance, they can take the final payment or two you make from your paychecks toward health insurance and not send it to plan administrators, which could leave sick or injured officers and their families holding the bag for big $$$
Get yourselves some tax attorneys and bankruptcy specialists on your side!
Police officers and firefighters put themselves in harm's way and stand a chance to lose a secure retirement in return for the possibility of losing their lives every day they go to work.
I'm just a citizen, and don't even live in the city anymore, but this burns me up more than some of the crap your supernintendo J-fled has pulled (with the exception of throwing Bill Cozzi under the bus)
Why don't you contact Sen Kirk for some help, since our state legislature is a mess? Maybe something can be done to reverse Rosty's SSA screwup.
SCC, thanks for letting me vent. I sincerely hope some of the good suggestions in comments made above (eliminate gold braid pension, double dipping, exhorbitant pensions and multiple dipping for do-nothing judges and other elected/appointed corruption-tainted public officials (Stroger, Daley, the alderthieves, et al) are brought up to the public and elected officials who could make a difference for you.
-Been there, done that, initially got screwed by a very large Chicago-based employer when it went BK, but was made whole in the long run
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