Where Are Pat's Guns? (UPDATED)
From an e-mail we received:
- When Pat Finucane died, [...] 1st district coppers took the keys out of his pocket, opened up and entered his condo and took, and inventoried all his guns [...]
No reason to take his keys, no reason to enter his condo and no reason to take anything from within
I was unaware of this aspect of the death of poor Pat.
Finucane had a family who I'm sure would have made some type of arrangement to ensure the guns would not go to the criminal element--and sold them to the coppers. At least they should have had that option.
We made a few discrete calls among trusted associates and discovered that although there is a Death Investigation RD number, there are no inventories listed. But when you run the report number through the CLEAR system, a number of guns appear under various inventory numbers. Shotguns, rifles, pistols. All inventoried.
Finucane died in the lobby of his building. It's on video. As far as we know, there wasn't any reason for coppers to be in his condo. A relative was contacted and she should have been given possession of the keys and control of the property until such time as a will was probated or a judicial hearing undertaken to determine heirs of Finucane's estate. Guns are not inexpensive and can be a significant asset.
Would someone like to enlighten us on what went on this past December? Because at the moment, it looks like some misguided persons violated a dead man's property, illegally removed items belonging to his legal heir(s) and placed them into ERPS where, G-d forbid, someone might use them as props to inflate the supposed number of gun seizures by the Department.
We would really hate for that to have happened. We really hope there's an innocent explanation.
UPDATE: Unfortunately, there isn't an innocent explanation - there's just the regular fucked up one.
A couple of white shirts on scene have contacted us and admitted it was handled wrong and the usual suspect (a gold star) was driving this bus. The situation is being rectified, not exactly expeditiously, but as well as a large bureaucracy can fix an obvious wrong.
To everyone who contacted us with decent verifiable information, thanks.
To those who blamed us for airing "dirty laundry," the fact that you don't know your duties regarding deceased persons' property is just sad. Providing excuses for the bad decisions certain people make speaks to the brainwashing you've received.
And to the other few accusing us of working for Loevy and Loevy or trying to get coppers sued or all manner of bullshit, grow up. Coppers fucked up at the direction of a high-ranking supervisor, but guess who won't be around (and who isn't even on the paper!) if a lawsuit is filed? If you said "the high-ranking supervisor," give yourself a pat on the back, you're already smarter than you were when you woke up. That should be the lesson learned here. The blog doesn't create news, but it can shine a spotlight on things we get from two, three or four concerned coppers that the family of one of our own is being screwed by the very Department he worked for. You asshats that blindly back the Department position, especially when they are in the wrong, does a disservice to everyone trying to do the job correctly every single day, past, present and future.
Comments closed.
Finucane died in the lobby of his building. It's on video. As far as we know, there wasn't any reason for coppers to be in his condo. A relative was contacted and she should have been given possession of the keys and control of the property until such time as a will was probated or a judicial hearing undertaken to determine heirs of Finucane's estate. Guns are not inexpensive and can be a significant asset.
Would someone like to enlighten us on what went on this past December? Because at the moment, it looks like some misguided persons violated a dead man's property, illegally removed items belonging to his legal heir(s) and placed them into ERPS where, G-d forbid, someone might use them as props to inflate the supposed number of gun seizures by the Department.
We would really hate for that to have happened. We really hope there's an innocent explanation.
UPDATE: Unfortunately, there isn't an innocent explanation - there's just the regular fucked up one.
A couple of white shirts on scene have contacted us and admitted it was handled wrong and the usual suspect (a gold star) was driving this bus. The situation is being rectified, not exactly expeditiously, but as well as a large bureaucracy can fix an obvious wrong.
To everyone who contacted us with decent verifiable information, thanks.
To those who blamed us for airing "dirty laundry," the fact that you don't know your duties regarding deceased persons' property is just sad. Providing excuses for the bad decisions certain people make speaks to the brainwashing you've received.
And to the other few accusing us of working for Loevy and Loevy or trying to get coppers sued or all manner of bullshit, grow up. Coppers fucked up at the direction of a high-ranking supervisor, but guess who won't be around (and who isn't even on the paper!) if a lawsuit is filed? If you said "the high-ranking supervisor," give yourself a pat on the back, you're already smarter than you were when you woke up. That should be the lesson learned here. The blog doesn't create news, but it can shine a spotlight on things we get from two, three or four concerned coppers that the family of one of our own is being screwed by the very Department he worked for. You asshats that blindly back the Department position, especially when they are in the wrong, does a disservice to everyone trying to do the job correctly every single day, past, present and future.
Comments closed.
Labels: we got nothing
posted by SCC at 3:01 AM
131 Comments:
Illegal search and seizure?????
Violation of civil rights????
Uhhh criminal financial exploitation
of elderly decedent ???? WTF
Yeah well this fucker has to find guns somewhere to put on the table for photo shoots.
Chicago is just a taste for whats coming in this fucking country.
"Guns Are a Revered Family Tradition"
http://abcnews.go.com/US/utah-family-guns-revered-family-tradition/story?id=18031416
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
I was told that a couple youngsters called their Sgt and they went into Pats condo and tore the place up finding a few weapons where as the good tac sgt got a Cr number on the deceased for unregistered hand guns.
These fools are not our brothers and is an example why no young person should ever be assigned to the 001st district. They got credit for all the guns at the end of the period...
Lets see if this is right? Man dies outside home and police take his keys and enter his home "Without" lawful search warrant or permission and remove legally owned and registered guns "yes".
1. How did they know the guns were there?
2. Who gave authority to go and enter the home?
3. What else did they take? Money, jewelry, antique guns, collectables.
Repercussions?
Lawsuit large judgement against city and Officers,
Punitive damages in hundreds of thousands dollars!
Reasons?
Violation of civil rights against unlawful search and seizure. Plus a whole lot of criminal charges! Theft, Burglary and all aggravated due to officers doing the crime.
O T The shoplifting P/O's court case should of been up by now any results yet. Plus is she in a special callback unit with a company car or is she working a desk with the rest of the callback P/Os.
UMMMMMMMMMM, my tac sgt told us to do it......
Pat still has family on the job. He has a cousin in K-9 and another one in 025. His guns could have been turned over to Tom or Steve. I hope this isn't true.
Lets hope there is video of the contitutional scholar himself or a minion entering the building and carrying out a package.
Look on the bright side, the numbers for compstat looked great that month for 001.
Kane cty coroner got fired for taking a $400 TV....
Nice going 001. I wonder what meritorious, no-balls sgt made that decision.
Because there are some moronic bosses out there who take deceased coppers belongings and inventory them, causing the family to run through hoops in trying to get them back. This has happened more than you know with police who have died of natural causes.
A family member said to a boss - my dad had a heart attack, there is no bullet holes in his body, why do you have to take his guns, my dad paid for the guns, not the police department? This boss said - its department policy, and he ordered the cops to take the weapons.
This boss was Carter.
One of Pat's fellow detectives is a lawyer also. He is handling this and the story is a bit inaccurate. Pat was my partner before I retired and I checked when I first heard this story two weeks ago.
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
Then why didn't they inventory his flat screen? Maybe he wanted to give it to his old partner. That's how reducilious that theory sounds. Since when is it our job to inventory a dead persons property (guns, flat screens etc) so as to "safeguard" them until a probate judge can determine their rightful owner.
Some relative needs to get a lawyer involved and file a CR. And sue the goddamned city. They had no business in that officer's residence. And no business siezing those guns.
To 0542:
I'm the sgt. who made that decision, asshole. Something you probably never had to do. SCC could you please post your email address for me. I'm unable to pull it up off your site. I would gladly explain myself and offer any help in getting to the bottom of this.
When you live in a socialist state, there are no rights except for those of the state. Get used to it, because you voted for it. Now go grab more guns, you sheep dogs. Your Glorious Leader Rahm wills it. And you will obey, like good little dogs, if you know what's good for you.
No idea what happened but let's be real. All of our neighbors know we're the police and have guns in our home. Now they find out your dead and them or their friends decide lets see if we can get in that condo and get those guns. Unrealistic? Maybe but not totally out of the question. If the family couldn't get there that night we can't expect coppers to leave a house full of guns in a dead mans condo. Sorry but I don't trust enough people in the world to think that the wrong person couldnt have potentially got their hands on them. Now if they were inventoried then absolutely the family should have EVERY right to claim them as their property
Anonymous said...
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
Nice try. it was wrong no matter what you try to say. If I die, I don't want some asshole gun grabber deciding what's best for my family. My family should be notified and given the respect they deserve to settle my estate.
Anonymous said...
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
You would trust unknown police officers in your apartment/house after you die? You must be new here. Not me. Oh, a sgt made the decision. Well that's a relief. That sergeant is a member of the sergeants association, the same one that negotiated away rights of retirees that they had no business even talking about. Those sergeants were there?
Well, now for sure the family jewels are in jeapardy, a sgt. was there.
If there ever was a shing examply to not ever trust a sgt just look at their own union leadership. Polahusky loots the union and is now in prison and Ade sells out the other unions and sells out retirees all across the state. And of the retiree thing doesn't pass at the state level the entire sgt contract is void. And the city indemnifies the sgt union. What the hell is that?
Never trust a fed or a sgt. Rat mother fuckers.
Now we will see what they do when they vote on their sell out contract. Next up, Lt's.
And this was done all for what? To inventory guns so in your activity it shows "five guns were recovered".
As long as we allow this shit to keep happening, it will continue.
The mentality that the government ALLOWS us to have and do things must change. We are being destroyed from within.
off topic-fop are we getting a retro check or did mikey screw up and not submit paper work on time? put that on the front page of the next fop news letter and not dribble about non-sense
God Rest Pat, a good friend and a good cop.
I do not know if he lived alone or not but if no family member was able to come to the scene immediately I can see checking the condo. There might be someone there, a pet to be cared for or something on the stove or other safety concern. To do that always call for a supervisor or third party like a building manager to be present. Don’t go further than that, not into closets, into drawers and so on.
That being done, if he lived alone the condo should have been locked and sealed with a a Coroner's Seal.
One of Pat's guns, a S%W Model 60 was recovered after being burned up in a fire at an HBT incident he was at a few years ago. The gun was literally toast. He might have mounted that on a plaque because but for the grace of God he could have burned up too.
Wow. How stupid. To do this to anyone is ridiculous. To do this to one of the most respected and well liked PO's in a long time is outrageous. It's also criminal! This needs to be made right!
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
I really hope you are not the police! THERE WAS NO LEGAL REASON to enter that condo!!!!! Doesn't matter what they found, they had no right to be in there in the first place.
Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
...................................
Thanks for holding everyone's hand Garry. It is not for the government to decide property. That is what a will is for. And, if the family member or friend has an issue with the guns...they can ask for help...what a concept...frickin democrats.
"By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner."
Now that right there, that's funny!
Have you ever tried to reacquire legally owned firearms from an overzealous police department with a political chip on its shoulder? I have. I paid my lawyer more than the gun was worth, and it took 3 months.
Poor Pat, I miss him.
former Area 4 grunt
Who is the total IDIOT that posted at 0415? "Public safety issue"??? The family members cannot be trusted?? The building management can't be trusted?? So we are supposed to trust you because you are a government worker? You MORON! I would expect some of his guns to be locked up. So the government is going to CONFISCATE any safes found? The government is going to root through every drawer, look under every mattress, in every cabinet, every box, every square inch because you think the family and building owners are not to be trusted? When did we become the SS, the Secret police, the storm troopers of Amerika? You sir or madam, are in the wrong line of work here. You sicken me. You sound like an Obama voter.
I agree that this is disgusting, if it is true. Explotation of the elderly??? You are pathetic if you think he was old!!
The practice of seizing deceased officer's firearms has been going on for a number of years. The determination to seize the firearms usually came from the District Commander or Deputy. I know of one incident in 022 where the District Commander of the deceased officer's district had a family member break into a gun cabinet so the firearms could be seized. All in the name of public safety. It seems there are many misguided meritorious nitwits. Whatever happened to the premise being secured with a coroner's seal, or the residence being turned over to an approved family member. The CPD is involving themselves into civil matters.
The Clout Heavy Shoplifting Detective went to court and WholeFoods did not show. So now the issue is going to be strictly administrative, which means she will be taken care of as she was cared for all through her career. The car was from the Feds, so she had to give it up. It will be interesting to see how her Boss Boyfriends bail her out of this one.
Can't win for losing with this breed of CPD
If they would have left them and the place gets burglarized then the cops were assholes!
I'm not saying what was done was correct but there are plenty of Monday morning QB's who love to ridicule and throw a copper under the bus.
We have way to many sheep on this job, " hey someone file a lawsuit against this, or start a march against that, etc" none of these hard chargers want to do shit themselves.
ot rahmmie wants business to raise $50,000,000 for basketball league.WTF , are they going to pay gang members to join teams , uniforms in gang colors .
money better be + spent in ALL neighborhoods .
Again how was that $1,500,000 spent by cease fire , if not for that hush money chitown may have had 600 murders .
May the perpetual light shine upon you Pat. You are a great person.
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms.........................Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
Yeah Right.....Rationalize it anyway you want you asshat. It was wrong....procedurally wrong, legally wrong and morally wrong.
If I am injured, incapacitated or die stay the F#$K out of my house and keep your filthy hands off my stuff you cretin. If I no longer have a wife or child when I die then you best call the person on my CPD required emergency notification file and turn my home and property over to that person. In its entiretyand unmolested by you or any other moron, regardless of rank.
After having learned how Pat's personal property was essentially stolen I added a codocil to my will instructing the executor to expend any assets necessary to investigate and prosecute any and all person s who violated myself, my estate or my lawfull heirs.
This incident and the other recent gun arrest at UIC is a prime example why individual stats for gun recovery should just be integrated into an overall anonymous blanket total. "Hard chargers" classically use these opportunities to pad their gun numbers so they can gloat about their totals at the end of the year.
The nanny state knows better what to do with your property than your heirs do.
How sickening and pathetic.
Rest easy Pat, you were a gentleman and a class act
All the more reason I refuse to register my firearms other than the one I use for work!
Everything else is off limits from this U.S. Constitution violating city and police department!
As for the "police whores" who pimp for this Mayor and Supt. McGoof! You should be ashamed of violating your constitution oath!
Da Pelon
Anonymous said...
UMMMMMMMMMM, my tac sgt told us to do it......
2/20/2013 04:57:00 AM
I hope that is documented in your report Rookie
And then you will cry like a bitch when you get sued.
This story sickens me! They treated him as a criminal with illegal guns. Why the fuck is anyone going through his property on such a sad occasion? I sure hope some clown isn't looking for some bs gun recovery stat but it wouldn't surprise me the way these bosses are now under McCarthy.
Off Topic. JJJ and wife will not loose pension and will be eligible to run for public office again because he was NOT charged with Public Corruption
The blue jean lone rangers do the same thing. Go through someones private spaces when they aren't around or dead to collect supposed trophies. Then they parade the loot in the interview rooms. Closet ghouls.
Picking the bones of the dead. How low can you be!?
Maybe he had some memorabilia in there, collectables or jewelry too. Better stick that in your pocket for safe keeping. Finders keepers. Don't
ask don't tell and all that jazz.
Oh if the family asks about it maybe they'll get it back (we wuz just holding for ya bro) but if they don't because they didn't know it existed?
If it was JJJ look at all that stuff one would have access to.
If true, this would be an all time low for this department. But this is what we have posing as and pretending to be Chicago Police Officers these days.
The last of the REAL police are few and far between these days. And the smarter ones of this group have migrated to safer spots trying to ride out this rollercoaster.
This job started going down hill (in my humble opinion) sometime in the late 90s, and its done nothing but gain speed.
RIP, CPD. We hardly knew ye. And more importantly, RIP Pat.
Ridiculous. There was no reason to go inside. This is disgusting.
Anonymous said...
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
An act of prudence?! NOBODY had any legal right to enter that apartment.
Therefore, nobody had any right to remove anything from it.
On another piece of mysterious and or suspicious police work by the new merit police my daughter's wallet came up missing. She went to the 002 district desk to make a report . She told the desk officer (I thought all the do nothing mutts were gone) that her father was a retired police officer and that she needed a case report. He told her that to get a report (either Lost & Found or Theft ) she needed to get a copy of her CREDIT REPORT first so he would have all the correct information. What is a desk man going to do with a citizen's credit report? She quickly figured out that the desk man is a idiot and possible thief so she went to 007 and the desk crew was very politle and took her report. A few days later she got a call from the 004th district who had a guy in custody trying to use her credit cards and driver's license. The offender was the step-son of the lady that she visited on the day the wallet went missing. He was charged and the 002 district desk man should be fired!
a death investigation: unknown at that time how officer died, entry into his condo is not out of line, warrant not necessary, as possible other victims or evidence of cause of death in condo. weapons found, confiscated and inventoried. so far....I see no problems. I hope their report or the follow-up by det's streses the importance of entry into condo.....remember, all you have to do is justify your actions in your report, shortcuts will always come back to haunt you......
Anonymous said...
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
No one had any right to enter his condo. Period! No reason to enter his condo. If I was family I would ask what else was taken? Where's the cash? Where's the rolex? Etc, etc,
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
Einstein. The incident did not occur in his residence. You have no business taking the keys from his pocket and entering his home. Who are you Jerry Finnegan?
Maggie sue the fuck out of these idiots. The coppers. The sergeant on scene and whoever approved the inventories.
What the fuck happened to this Department?
Please scc, keep this one alive. This is a complete injustice to a POs rights! Make someone accountable ! God forbid if this was done to a reverends house to protect his belongings, we would be reading about it on the front page.
This happened a few years ago in 004. Copper dies at home natural causes, his wife on the scene. Then commander of four, current commander of 006, shows up and takes the officer's duty weapon and has it inventoried. Apparently cops and good people have no rights in this city, just assholes and illegals.
Motherfucker!!Pat was a true professional that would do anything for a fellow PO or citizen.A gentleman like I've rarely found on this job.It makes me sick to think some other POs would disrespect him before he was even cold.If true the PO/POS would do well to leave this job.Pat was enormously popular.I know I will burn every phone call-favor I have to stick it up their ass.
Rtd cop here. Ive left instructions with my family house gets broken into and were outa town secure it and call me NOT THE POLICE. I dont need my house searched without a warrant.
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
Not a good explanation. Should not have entered and removed the guns. If there was money in the condo, should they have taken and inventoried the money so the wrong relative didnt get it
Usually if there is a death like this, the only one that would enter is a relative or friend that the deceased gave a key to the property, making me believe he trusted them
Or could they have placed a coroners seal on the apartment, allowing no one in until the court decided who should have access. Just asking
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
Holy fuck you are dumb. I seriously hope you are not the police.
The keys were taken out of his pocket so that the officers might be able to id him, since he didn't have a wallet on his person. The doorman and building maintenance didn't know who he was and neither did the officers. Nor did the building staff inform the officers that he was an officer. That wasn't found out until the officers entered the apartment. The other decisions were made by a Sgt. And there was an abundance of exempts, Sgts, bosses on the scene barking orders to the responding officers so who knows who made that decision but Im positive it wasn't a blue shirt. And yes I was there
what about the order "whats on the body, goes with the body to the medical examiners office.
Those coppers are not the brightest light bulb.
OOOHHHHH, this is gonna be good.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
Doesn't make sense. The family, next of kin and the police/official entity, should be present at the time of "inventory". There needs to be checks and balances.
Back seat driver
Wasn't on the scene but this sounds like it should have been a Medical Examiner's case. As such, Detective and/or E.T. assigned?
If I remember correctly, isn't any property recovered on the deceased suppose to remain with and be taken with the remains to the Medical Examiner's Office?
Not the first story lke this I've heard. Dead isn't necessary. Out of town will do.
Somebody is in big trouble.
Why didn't these "youngsters" call the Area where he worked from? I'm sure his detective partners would have arrived and made sure things were done appropriately.
wow, that is below the belt
OR THIS IS CRAZY(sarcasim). HOW ABOUT HIS PARTNER TAKE CUSTODY OF HIS GUNS, MONEY, OTHER VALUABLES that might walk off until he meets with the family in person and then tender all the items over. THAT WAS HARD HUH!
If we give the benefit of the doubt to the p.o.s that they removed the weapons for safety sake, let's hope those at ERPS don't put the weapons into "destroy" bin. that would be very sad indeed
Anonymous said...
Lets see if this is right? Man dies outside home and police take his keys and enter his home "Without" lawful search warrant or permission and remove legally owned and registered guns "yes".
1. How did they know the guns were there?
2. Who gave authority to go and enter the home?
3. What else did they take? Money, jewelry, antique guns, collectables.
Repercussions?
Lawsuit large judgement against city and Officers,
Punitive damages in hundreds of thousands dollars!
Reasons?
Violation of civil rights against unlawful search and seizure. Plus a whole lot of criminal charges! Theft, Burglary and all aggravated due to officers doing the crime.
2/20/2013 04:35:00 AM
I hope they ALL go down for this. Including all white shirts involved.
It's no wonder people hate the Police.
Right choice whether a meritorious Sgt or off the list position. Gun are nothing to play with in this day and age. The way shut is common sense ain't always good sense. Inventory the guns and its hard to go wrong. If someone has a legitimate claim to the weapons. They can claim them eventually.
Anonymous said...
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
A public safety issue? Inside a locked residence?
Then why wasn't every item of value inventoried to prevent "management or maintenance staff" for taking anything else?
Ever get a gun back from ERPS? They're all damaged due to improper handling and storage.
What if you were the poor soul that died and your wife was at work and couldn't be reached? Would it be ok with you that the Police tore your house apart and took your personal property without anyone's permission?
I thought so, asshole.
If I lose my Glock 23, report it lost, then find it. Do I need to report that I found it?
2/19/2013 10:07:00 AM
Talk about civil disobedience! Everyday report your gun "lost" then report it "found" the next. Repeat ad nausium.
001 Dist Tactical robots say...
"They want these gun numbers..."
Police officers often use this as an excuse when their arrests are put under scrutiny. But question who "they" are and you get a very puzzled look on their faces.
It's time to do away with Tact teams. They serve no purpose anymore. I have seen arrest for shoplifting, Domestic, and the all too frequent MCC charges. And a lot of these are Juvenile arrests to top it off. No real purpose is served here. Send them back to the watch and teach them how to be the real police.
Anonymous said...
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
You have restored my faith in CPD. Too many police officers respond with their nonsense about situations such as this. Listen,digest,and then respond. Your point is reasonable and rational.
"As far as we know, there wasn't any reason for coppers to be in his condo."
Other than it's a death investigation and he died in the lobby of his condo building...
"It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on."
public safety? is that an exception to the 4th Amendment?
The shoplifting clouted meritorious detective is back and better than ever. Watch for her on the next Sgt's list remember is just rain you are feeling on your back its all legit in CPD.
Can you leave Pat RIP ? Rip on your Supt or Mayor. Leave Pat alone. Bad taste.
Anonymous said...
Illegal search and seizure?????
Violation of civil rights????
Uhhh criminal financial exploitation
of elderly decedent ???? WTF
2/20/2013 03:24:00 AM
Violation of whose civil rights? Owner was deceased. They knew there were guns there, that's likely reason. Only redeeming act would have been to call family immediately and give them the inventory slips and put PO on the door to safeguard the guy's apartment until family took over.
But why go in at all? He didn't die inside. No evidence of homicide. It stinks.
Public safety issue? They were locked in the man's apartment. The decision was made by the watch commander, Lt. DB. and it was a bad one. There was no reason to search through Pat's residence. Really, really stupid decision. Just another example of the lack of common sense possesed by the leadership of our modern department.
OT .... Why do we waste $ on the helicopter? Last night they were supposed to be used to help follow the Subway robber, when they where actually called for assistance thru had no idea what was going on and never even made it up into the air. They always have to leave a scene, in order to refuel and usually never find anything. It is a complete waste of money and a useless unit
Thank GOD I'm retired, they really hire and promote people like these? I feel sorry for the common sense good guys out there.Best of luck guy's,you have to have your head on a swivel watching both sides of the matrix.
It was most likely a public safety issue. Who's to say some family member or other party wouldn't take advantage of the situation to help themself to a few firearms. Just because an individual is scrupulous doesn't mean that one's relatives or persons around us are equally so. For example, if this was an apartment building (as reported by the news media), management or maintenance staff could have accessed the unit. By inventorying the firearms, they will be stored safely, and can be claimed by the proper inheritor/owner. (And who's to say that would automatically be a family member; Perhaps the firearms were willed to a friend or old partner, or were to be split up amongst multiple people). Regardless, the whole ownership issue is an aftereffect. Whatever the situation, inventorying the fireams was likely intended as an act of prudence, and not something rotten. In other words, the least chance of bad shit happening, yet can still be made right later on.
2/20/2013 04:15:00 AM
Are you the douche bag whose name is on the inventory? Becasue you really sound like a douche bag.
001 st district gin recoveries went up 50% for the month of his death.
I remember about two years ago they did the same thing up in 022. I was telling some other officers and they told me it happens in 005, 004 all the time.
If you die on the job they are coming for your guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and if you die and still live in Chicago they are coming for your guns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The "koolaid drinkers" in 022 did something similiar when an officer from 004 was found deceased in her home. 8 guns were removed, they were not laying out in the open in her home, and her family (who knew of their existence and value) were told that noone could have them because none of them had foid cards. I sure hope her brother followed up.
I thought only us private sector tax-paying little citizens are now without property rights in this brave new peoples republic of USSR-merica.
But now EVEN CHICAGO COPS do NOT have property rights ?
chilling
Anonymous said...
O T The shoplifting P/O's court case should of been up by now any results yet. Plus is she in a special callback unit with a company car or is she working a desk with the rest of the callback P/Os.
2/20/2013 04:51:00 AM
Don't worry yourself sick. With any luck court case will be tossed, will get an upgrade for a newer car, and be put in for a meritorious spot.
The problem with this kind of situation is that a the family is going to have to get a lawyer involved. They have no choice, they will never get their property back any other way. It's not like they can fill out a property claim form as walk out the door with the weapons.
The lawyer is going to do whatever it takes to succeed. Lawsuit, media circus, press conferences - you name it. Win by any means.
This is the kind of sh!t that gives cops a whole lot of bad press.
Well there should be video of who ever removed any property from the building.
I am on the fence on this issue. If all the removed property was removed to avoid the weapons from ending up in the wrong hands and properly inventoried, I do not see a problem. I have seen this in the past of retired or active members who have died and lived alone.
On the other hand if ALL of the property was not handled and inventoried properly then there is a problem.
We have all been to these scenes where family members or others have ransacked the residence before the Police have arrived or are still on the scene fighting over the victims purse and other valuables.
Last time I checked there was nothing in the US Constitution guaranteeing rights to dead people. A perfect example is HIPA. The minute they pronounce you dead dead, HIPA no longer applies!.
Pat was related to the McNichols brothers who are out of 24 I think, unless something changed and they moved on. I hope they don't let this shit go. Pat was a good copper and more importantly a good friend.
RD A/4
JACK'S ARE WILD!
Notice the Stone Cold Silence?
The Jackson's rip-off three-quarters of a million, THAT WE KNOW OF and not a word from our number one, get tough on crime, crime fighters, Garry or Rahm.
Maybe I missed it? Anyone?
The Ex-Gov. is on home confinement except he's not. He's out living it up at a local restaurant with friends and relatives. Shhhh it's a secrete and the B.O.P doesn't have to show you nuttin'.
What's up with rep. Trotter and that gun charge at the airport? Has he gone to trial yet?
Then there's this:
But there’s a serious contradiction in Beale’s gun stance. This is what he told NBC5 a while back…
Q: What kind of guns do you own?
A: A 30-.06 rifle, and 1187 Remington shotgun, and a 9 millimeter Glock. As aldermen, were legally allowed to carry [handguns]. I don’t carry, but under the city ordinance and the state law, we have the right to carry a concealed weapon.
Q: Do you think the entire state should pass that law?
A: Absolutely not.
Q: Why not? If it’s OK for aldermen, why not the general public.
A: An alderman is a sworn peace officer, and we have to go through 40 hours training in order to obtain the license. I’ve even taken 20 hours additional training. [Emphasis added.]
* But this is from today’s Tribune…
“You gotta remember, I didn’t own anything [guns] prior to being an alderman,” he said. “As alderman, I still have the right, because I’m a sworn officer.”
But state law and rules were changed in the late 1990s to require aldermen to undergo 400 hours of training — just like police officers — to become “conservators of the peace.” Beale’s campaign acknowledged the alderman never took that training, but Beale said he now has a Chicago firearms permit. [Emphasis added.]
Oops.
http://capitolfax.com/2013/02/20/kellys-integrity-questioned-beale-attacks-obama-but-has-own-gun-issues/
Two sets of laws. Brokens Windows my ass.
Anonymous said...
Can't win for losing with this breed of CPD
If they would have left them and the place gets burglarized then the cops were assholes!
I'm not saying what was done was correct but there are plenty of Monday morning QB's who love to ridicule and throw a copper under the bus.
We have way to many sheep on this job, " hey someone file a lawsuit against this, or start a march against that, etc" none of these hard chargers want to do shit themselves.
2/20/2013 08:38:00 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The argument of doing things "for your safety" is so tiresome and worn out. Whenever the establishment want's to violent someone's civil rights that's the phrase they pull out of there hip pocket. We're doing this for your own safety. It's a bunch of crap half the time.
Like Nazi Germany.
the special cars in 019 r not working
Public Safety? Who was that nitwit? Well I guess that in the interest of public safety we can just go into everyboby's house in Englewood and search for guns. Thanks 04:15 you get the idiot of the year award. Rookie.
OR THIS IS CRAZY(sarcasim). HOW ABOUT HIS PARTNER TAKE CUSTODY OF HIS GUNS, MONEY, OTHER VALUABLES that might walk off until he meets with the family in person and then tender all the items over. THAT WAS HARD HUH!
2/20/2013 12:46:00 PM
Or station an officer at the front door ensuring no one gets in.
Good family friend here....stop with the public safety crap. His sister was notified and immediately responded. Maybe woulda been nice for HER to open his door & let the police in instead of 001 tearing through the place in the brief time it took her to get there. WTF? Detectives were pissed about how this was handled. Hopefully guns were all that was taken, but nowadays, unfortunately, you never know. Would be nice if when passing away you didn't have to worry about your fellow officers going through your place right after you go.
Alright, the Supt. is an asshole.
The mayor is an asshole.......OK
You would trust unknown police officers in your apartment/house after you die? You must be new here. Not me. Oh, a sgt made the decision. Well that's a relief. That sergeant is a member of the sergeants association, the same one that negotiated away rights of retirees that they had no business even talking about. Those sergeants were there?
Well, now for sure the family jewels are in jeapardy, a sgt. was there.
If there ever was a shing examply to not ever trust a sgt just look at their own union leadership. Polahusky loots the union and is now in prison and Ade sells out the other unions and sells out retirees all across the state. And of the retiree thing doesn't pass at the state level the entire sgt contract is void. And the city indemnifies the sgt union. What the hell is that?
Never trust a fed or a sgt. Rat mother fuckers.
Now we will see what they do when they vote on their sell out contract. Next up, Lt's.
2/20/2013 07:21:00 AM
----------------------------
You really are an idiot. You try to equate what happened as described in this post to the board members of the Sgt's Association who agreed to send the tentative agreement to the members for a vote.
I wouldn't have done what the Sgt on the scene did in the above incident but I don't know the particulars and wasn't there so I won't pass judgment on his decision.
And please don't post while drunk.
CHICAGO (CBS) — The Emanuel Administration is announcing the first major expansion of Chicago’s Blue Cart Recycling Program. He kicked off the first phase on the North Side.
More money not for your raise
Anonymous said...
O T The shoplifting P/O's court case should of been up by now any results yet. Plus is she in a special callback unit with a company car or is she working a desk with the rest of the callback P/Os.
2/20/2013 04:51:00 AM
Whole Foods didn't show up for the court date. SOL'd.
However, she was telling her financial crimes sgt. that she was working at the IRS, and would tell her IRS boss she was working at the police dept.
From what I hear she's still in some deep shit beyond her tossed out criminal case.
What a mutt. Sgt's are in trouble now too.
Well I guess that in the interest of public safety we can just go into everyboby's house in Englewood and search for guns.
^^I'm going with McCarthy's," We should rely on public opinion polls when interpreting our Constitution".
Do it!!
I just spent almost two grand setting up a trust so my property can be distributed according to my wishes and to avoid PROBATE (meaning interference from government). I'd be fucking pissed if some asshole decided to go into my home, rifle through everything I own and took what they wanted before my family got there. There is no way around this being fucked up.
I inherited my father's guns when he died. Are you trying to tell me if the government got to his house first, they had the right to confiscate his guns because of "public safety"?
What the fuck...
Anonymous said...
To 0542:
I'm the sgt. who made that decision, asshole. Something you probably never had to do. SCC could you please post your email address for me. I'm unable to pull it up off your site. I would gladly explain myself and offer any help in getting to the bottom of this.
2/20/2013 07:11:00 AM
Here's SCC's email:
sccmaillist@yahoo.com
Why couldn't they just wait until the family was able to get there? As a courtesy, instead of taking things?
Why don't we take this shit down until we do get to the bottom of this? Maybe there is a valid reason. Lets not throw P.O.'s to the wolves, media and lawyers before the whole story comes out.
Friends of Pat---Anyone want to speculate about how Pat would feel about this?
I'm usually on your side with this,but I think leaving them in a now empty Apt in a multi unit bldg is a bad idea. Between janitors and bldg mgt, you never know who could use a pass key to have Carte Blanche on his weapons. Have to side with 1st Dist on this one.
Anonymous said...
The keys were taken out of his pocket so that the officers might be able to id him, since he didn't have a wallet on his person. The doorman and building maintenance didn't know who he was and neither did the officers. Nor did the building staff inform the officers that he was an officer. That wasn't found out until the officers entered the apartment. The other decisions were made by a Sgt. And there was an abundance of exempts, Sgts, bosses on the scene barking orders to the responding officers so who knows who made that decision but Im positive it wasn't a blue shirt. And yes I was there
2/20/2013 11:21:00 AM
If nobody in the building knew who he was then how did you know what condo to check? AND, it would be the building managers job to open the room for you. AND if you knew the condo, them why would you not contact the manager and find out who was the name on that condo. THEN you would let the manager assist you in entering the condo. Once you I'd Pat , your next step would be to notify next of kin. And if thats not possible someone on the job that may have been close to him. But it is NOT your job to inventory his personal property from the residence.
This was just soooo wrong.
But thank you, you just confirmed why I told my wife that NO ONE from the dept. (except my close friends) is welcome in our home.
Wait till some Police turn on good citizens there will be protest and civil unrest the country is on th everge of fagmenting and witch hunts Time to chose sides
There was absolutely no justification for entering the man's residence and those involved should be disciplined accordingly.
If the D.S.S. or any other member was concerned about the weapons, they could have posted a unit at the home until a family member was consulted.
Lets stop talking about not trusting officers and bashing the police on a public site. The sgt should have posted a copper outside the kate Detective's door and gotten a hold of a family member, preferably the police members of the famiky. This detective was from our wide family and you are suppose to treat an officer with as much respect as if you lost a member of your own family. Post 2 police officers outside his residence for protection of his personal property and to also show respect.
They have been doing this for the past two superintendents. Take dead peoples guns. This helps the gun numbers. I can only speak for what Area Central does. But I'm sure this is a city wide thing.
The Superintendent always states the number of 1,000 guns I beleave last stated for the year. How many arrests for all those guns.
I've inventoried a lot of guns in my 22 years. More are a none arrest situation.
The news in chicago never ask anything. That why there are no checks and balances.
Anonymous said...
Right choice whether a meritorious Sgt or off the list position. Gun are nothing to play with in this day and age. The way shut is common sense ain't always good sense. Inventory the guns and its hard to go wrong. If someone has a legitimate claim to the weapons. They can claim them eventually.
2/20/2013 01:17:00 PM
You are truly stupid and dangerous. Go turn in your uniform and get a brown shirt and swastika you traitorous tool.
RIP Pat, a true gentleman and one of the best police officers around!!!
Anonymous said...
If I lose my Glock 23, report it lost, then find it. Do I need to report that I found it?
2/19/2013 10:07:00 AM
Talk about civil disobedience! Everyday report your gun "lost" then report it "found" the next. Repeat ad nausium.
2/20/2013 01:27:00 PM
Good idea. Sort of like the drunk that always reports their car stolen in the morning and finds it an hour later.
The old timers are right as usual. Too much college on the job,not enough common sense. To you jagoffs ridiculing the inventorying of firearms. Don't you brain surgeons think his neighbors knew he was a copper? Therefore there is a very strong likelihood that firearms are in his residence,moreover some jagoff may burglarize his residence. We ain't probate court you morons!!! We don't have the legal authority to give away someone's property!!!! STFU!!!!
democrats do not want taxpayers to own guns... any means necessary comrade...
the special cars in 019 r not working
2/20/2013 07:31:00 PM
Ya think?
If that wasn't an unlawful search and seisure, then I don't know what was
Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t.
AND there ARE Inventory Numbers connected to the case. It took me 5 minutes to find them!
That building has Sec 8 in there. Not too hard to figure out “Hey, That Cop that Died lived in that Unit right there!” And a quick pry of the door later.
I don’t think that the weapons were inventoried out of malice, or a “Hey, I got X number of guns to check off with!”
If a family member wants the guns back, it’s not hard to do at all. I’ve done it before. All you need is an Exempt to release them, go to Homan Square and pick them up before 2200hrs.
I don’t know how fast that a Next of Kin was found or contacted, that may have played a factor.
Rest in Peace Pat, I hope all this works out.
Lesson to be learned here…
Update your Department Emergency Personal Notifications twice a year.
Enter phone family numbers on your cell phones as "ICE", as IN CASE OF EMERGENCY.
Have a will.
If you live alone, post a framed notice near your front entrance "NOTICE TO POLICE, FIRE & PARAMEDICS". This should have a list of family and work numbers and maybe pertinent medical information. A similar notice should be carried in your wallet.
Properly secure your weapons and other valuables. Safes are a good investment and can be purchase from most home improvement stores. It is further suggested that the safe be concealed in an area other than the master bedroom or den. Just be sure that your estate executor can get at it should the need arise.
Be on good terms with your neighbors, especially if you live alone. Make sure they have some numbers to call if they don't see you around for a while or other suspicious reason.
Stay Safe, ask yourself who will speak for me if I can't.
"001 st district gin recoveries went up 50% for the month of his death."
They took his liquor too?
Re shoplifting dic: I'm sure she is going through admin procedures for suspension or termination. Just because the victim didn't show doesn't mean the crime didn't occur. Just wondering if there wa some sort of "advantageous reason"of some sort for them not to show for court. If it is business as usual, ie getting special privedges from her boss boyfriend, then shame on the powers that be that allow it to continue. She should had never been assigned to the fed task force, absolutely no experience, JL put her there for gratuitous reasons. He runs the show there, despite the Lt or Cmdr, he does whatever he wants.
Anonymous said...
Well there should be video of who ever removed any property from the building.
I am on the fence on this issue. If all the removed property was removed to avoid the weapons from ending up in the wrong hands and properly inventoried, I do not see a problem. I have seen this in the past of retired or active members who have died and lived alone.
On the other hand if ALL of the property was not handled and inventoried properly then there is a problem.
We have all been to these scenes where family members or others have ransacked the residence before the Police have arrived or are still on the scene fighting over the victims purse and other valuables.
Last time I checked there was nothing in the US Constitution guaranteeing rights to dead people. A perfect example is HIPA. The minute they pronounce you dead dead, HIPA no longer applies!.
2/20/2013 06:33:00 PM
You are a fucking moron, I hope you have not reproduced.
Ok blah blah blah public safety issue ... If so do it the RIGHT way. Post someone outside the apartment as you have not been given LEGAL permission to enter, go in front of a judge, get a warrant/court order, and take possession of the weapons til the matter enters probate. Otherwise what are the immediate threats that requires you to take possession of the firearms for public safety?
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