Saturday, September 14, 2013

Little Help Garry?

In light of all the recent (and momentous) changes in Illinois gun law, you'd think there would be something around to assist and guide officers in their encounters with armed citizens. Because although there will be a sizable increase in the number of legally carried guns on the street shortly, there are still hundreds, even thousands of illegally owned guns out there.

Take for example the decision earlier this week which, as we read it, voids out certain sections of the Aggravated UUW statute while sustaining the Unlawful Possession of a Firearm charge and simultaneously acknowledging that you can carry outside the boundaries of your home. Confusing? Especially in light of all the City charges voided out a few weeks ago and other state laws that are now unenforceable? You bet.

We still haven't seen or heard of any training bulletins, videos or actual ASA's being prepared, briefed or scheduled for the street coppers. Maybe we're just out of the loop, but you'd think that some hint of something might have reached our doorstep. What we have heard (and witnessed) is DSS's of all ranks calling around to other Districts to ascertain proper charging of arrestees in cases where the law has abruptly changed. If the bosses are unsure, we imagine there might be a shortfall in Department preparations somewhere.

Here's a fun one for our coppers down south - Pullman is on the verge of becoming a National Park. Obama himself altered the rules for carrying in the National Parks in a feint to appear "Second Amendment friendly" for reelection, before his reverting to form as a gun grabber. National Park rules pretty much supersede any State laws regarding firearms and trump any municipal ordinances. Has the Department even considered this? With sections of the surrounding neighborhood resembling Afghani combat zones? We're betting no.

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52 Comments:

Anonymous Belly of the Beast said...

Heres a good rule of thumb: I treat EVERYONE as if they were carrying a weapon until I have confirmed otherwise

Abide by this rule and you won't have any problems with doing your job in the age of Concealed Carry. It's the same job you've (hopefully) been doing all along.

9/14/2013 12:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Ain't got time for that. We be sliding up next to the rever-runs renaming streets, re-sodding Maggie park from taste of Chicago and stuff. There's a ceasefire contract that need to be done. Election is coming.

/sarcasm

9/14/2013 12:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The gun law question is a great question. I've asked around and nobody seems to know anything, yet people are still getting felony gun charges approved for someone having it in their car or just walking down the street with it. I thought the laws changed? What gives? Does it have anything to do with FOID cards? Is it open season (old laws) on those without foid? Nobody seems to know.

9/14/2013 12:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Slide fire almost full auto and legal watch video time for us to get this!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/13/check-out-the-semi-automatic-rifle-with-machine-gun-like-rapid-fire-and-its-legal/

9/14/2013 12:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not surprised you've been told nothing: all the people at 35th St are working Safe Passage, going into its fourth week next week. And the bosses that remain are busy scrambling for Compstat without their POs and Sgts to prepare for them.

9/14/2013 05:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>IL Supreme Court Ruling <<<
That's not the clearest opinion ever written. It *seems* to Void the IL FOID Card statute, but doesn't if you read into the second part in upholding the Unlawful Possession and prohibited persons. But one thing is clear -- Chicago's Ordinance on carrying a gun outside your home while on your property is Null and Void. (I have my FOID Card in my wallet so I might as well leave it there, that's cheaper than needing a lawyer.)

>>> Pullman National Park Status <<<
Tiny Dancer & his Council pets, and McCompStat better nip that shit in the bud. Nothing good comes ceding land to the FedGov -- you lose everything and the 'G' gets total and complete control. It would be a complete cluster-fuck over who has jurisdiction / responsibility over what; Taxes, policing, lights/power, streets/san, etc. It'd be FUBAR with the G involved.

9/14/2013 07:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lega affairs, yes cops that happen to have law degrees, is studying the situation.

9/14/2013 07:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: Slide Fire

Arrrgh! WTF are they thinking, blowing shit up like that. That's all one fucking idiot politician needs to see is a goddamn explosion from rifle fire.

So legal or not for now, if not banned outright, you can bet the rent that gizmo will be 'regulated' by the ATF and classified as an NFA item, just like silencers are. And when they are anyone who has a slide-fire better get that tax stamp, or get rid of it asap in states were NFA items are banned, like IL.

So thanks idiots, give the gun-grabbers more ammunition.
(no gd pun)

9/14/2013 07:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That will be great. People will come thinking Yellowstone of Acadia National Park and get a ghetto full of murderous shitheads. Oh that is going to be a real laugh. Come to a National Park, get robbed, watch a murder and buy some crack or heron if you desire. The word will get out on what a fraud and how dangerous it is.

9/14/2013 08:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If they have a valid FOID card and they're not a convicted felon, I'd let them go or prepare to be sued and lose.

9/14/2013 09:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC, quit playing! They are not LEADERS, they are SUPERVISORS. There is a difference.

9/14/2013 09:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Very simple. If they have a valid FOID, leave them the hell alone.

9/14/2013 09:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Relax, it will take a little time to work out all of the kinks. This big change isn't going to happen overnight

9/14/2013 09:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you forget? Garry already told the media what officers will do when they encounter legally armed citizens--Shoot them!!

9/14/2013 09:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"... bosses that remain are busy scrambling for Compstat without their POs and Sgts to prepare for them.,,"

gee they should all have XOs--the most useless position ever created working for them

9/14/2013 10:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Chicago Police Department Department Notice D13-10
FIREARM CONCEALED CARRY ACT

ISSUE DATE: 09 July 2013 EFFECTIVE DATE: 09 July 2013
RESCINDS: AMC # 209351 Issued on 8 July 2013
INDEX CATEGORY: Department Notice

9/14/2013 10:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The gun law question is a great question. I've asked around and nobody seems to know anything, yet people are still getting felony gun charges approved for someone having it in their car or just walking down the street with it. I thought the laws changed? What gives? Does it have anything to do with FOID cards? Is it open season (old laws) on those without foid? Nobody seems to know.

9/14/2013 12:22:00 AM
In the car you have to remove the magazine and have it in a container until you have a permit from ISP next year. On your person (fannypack) magazine removed and no round in chamber see ISP website FAQs.You cant touch a firearm or a bullet without a FOID card. Stay away from LAKEVIEW late at night strongarm/ armed robbery out of control. Police do a great job in spite of being short handed to the max.

9/14/2013 10:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ASA Valentini told the Tribune that it "wouldn't be prudent" for gun owners with valid FOID cards to carry their guns in public.

It may not be prudent, but it is perfectly legal.

There is no longer any criminal charge for a legal gun owner with a FOID card who carries in public.

If you encounter a citizen with a loaded gun on the street and the citizen has a valid FOID card, then it is illegal for you to arrest him OR confiscate his gun. If you do take his gun, or God forbid, arrest him, you have just committed a civil rights violation that will certainly send you to Federal Court as a civil defendant, but could theoretically send you to court as a criminal defendant. The Statute of Limitations on a civil rights charge is 10 years.

9/14/2013 10:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

actually, you were misspoken about national park rules, at least with respect to firearms. they specifically mirror local law on them.

9/14/2013 11:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

they have a stupid video about everything and they are always writing something up to justify those desk jockeys spots so writing up something that actually makes sense and help officers with all the new law changes would be great.

9/14/2013 12:07:00 PM  
Anonymous uuuuuuright said...

Will the park service take all the calls for service?

9/14/2013 12:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The gun law question is a great question. I've asked around and nobody seems to know anything, yet people are still getting felony gun charges approved for someone having it in their car or just walking down the street with it. I thought the laws changed? What gives? Does it have anything to do with FOID cards? Is it open season (old laws) on those without foid? Nobody seems to know.

9/14/2013 12:22:00 AM

Convicted felons are still being charged. You still need FOID. A whole bunch of cases are about to be dropped,unless of course gun was used in crime.

9/14/2013 12:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Off Topic:

I'd like to bring a matter to your attention that you might not be aware of. Pursuant to a Seventh Circuit Court Of Appeals ruling in the Moore Decision, HB183 was passed on July 9th and became PA 98-0063.
That bill gave the Illinois State Police 180 days to make concealed carry applications available on January 5th. The bill also mandated 16 hours of training be completed before submitting an application.

Another part of that bill gave the ISP 60 days to "begin approving instructors and curriculum". First the good news; The ISP actually began approving instructors on August 30th, a full week before the mandated September 6th deadline.
Now the bad news is that they have only approved 23 instructors in the 11 business days since or an average of 2.09 instructors a day. It has been estimated that at least 800 people have or will submit instructor applications. At the current rate the ISP will take 382 business days to approve the expected number of instructors. While 800 instructors might sound like a lot, it is estimated that 200,000 to 300,000 citizens will apply for a CCL and they will all have to be trained between now and January 5th. If you follow this link to the ISP website you can see for yourself how many instructors have been approved:
http://www.isp.state.il.us/firearms/ccw/instructor-registry.cfm?County=&City=&LastName=&Search=Search

I would also like to point out that not a single training course that has been submitted in the past two weeks has been approved by the ISP. Their answer on the ISP FAQ page is:

When will ISP begin posting a list of approved curriculum on its website?
The ISP will begin posting a list of approved curriculum on its website as soon as the first curriculum is reviewed and approved.

I think that is what is called an non-answer answer.

I'm sure that you will agree that there is no way that 200,000 to 300,000 applicants can take the required 16 hours of training before January 5th without an approved curriculum and a sufficient number of instructors to teach it.
I am not sure if this is a willful act by the ISP {Gov. Quinn} to do an end run around the 7th Circuit mandate and the legislative intent of HB183 or if it is just another example of Illinois' legendary bureaucratic incompetence.
Either way, the situation is unacceptable.

This cannot be blamed on a lack of funding. The fee to submit an application is $150 which equated to $30,000,000 to $45,000,000 to pay for processing and approving applications. This is money the state of Illinois will never see if they do not approve the instructors and curriculum.


I would appreciate it if you could look into this.
I tried to call the the division of the ISP but the phone number provided on the ISP website, (217) 782-7980, only takes message and states Individual calls will not be returned. Customer {taxpayer} friendly they are not.

9/14/2013 01:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

They the politicos want us to be uninformed and under trained. It will further their agenda. When the first incident happens involving a legal concealed carry case, the anti gun ass wipes will be out in full force. Don't be fooled they will sacrifice one or a few of us for their cause.





9/14/2013 01:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

when he made the statement he would shoot ccw's that right there told this guy is a fucking idiot.
not only would this create animosity with the dept
and cost tiny dancer
BIG bucks in the long run
i can understand if someone pulls a firearm out on a cop it stands to reason one will most likely get shot.
BUT what makes him think a ccw would pull out a firearm on a cop?
if a person does pull out a firearm on a cop
chances are he/she is a felon/gangbanger to begin with
it's common knowledge with ccws that alvarez is just drooling to get one of us on a charge to make an example even if she is in the wrong.
so doesnt it stand to reason we are going to be smarter than the average bear and watch what we are doing?

9/14/2013 03:19:00 PM  
Blogger Mr. SouthSide said...

Will Smokey the Bear visit Pullman then?

9/14/2013 04:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Gary will leave you swinging the wind! You will get sued and lose civilly! All the while the inempt except structure like goofball pos Pena will be standing tall, good job kid as you lose everything!

9/14/2013 06:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Slide fire almost full auto and legal watch video time for us to get this!

9/14/2013 12:28:00 AM


Nah,just get one of these with a feed chute connected to a medium ALICE pack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiVoEL5Z4Go&feature=youtube_gdata

9/14/2013 06:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Illinois statute 720 ILCS 5 24 a(4), that states... A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: Carries or possesses in any vehicle or CONCEALED on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm.


Maybe I'm dense today...but where in the above does it Prohibit Open Carry in a Holster or on a Shoulder sling?

9/14/2013 07:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So the punk banger with the Illegal Weapon (serial filed off = illegal weapon) is fighting the arrest on a 2nd Amendment issue?

ADA should hammer on the point that the Destroyed Serial Number makes the Weapon Illegal and makes the UUW charge valid.

9/14/2013 07:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it open season (old laws) on those without foid? Nobody seems to know.

9/14/2013 12:22:00 AM

Open season if no FOID.
CCW reciprocity with 14 states takes effect 2014.

9/14/2013 07:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Illinois statute 720 ILCS 5 24 a(4), that states... A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: Carries or possesses in any vehicle or CONCEALED on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm.


Maybe I'm dense today...but where in the above does it Prohibit Open Carry in a Holster or on a Shoulder sling?

9/14/2013 07:10:00 PM

"Fixed Place of Business?"

I work in the Entire City of Chicago as a City Employee.

As such...since the city is my fixed place of business....I am entitled to CCW without a Permit?

9/14/2013 08:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is an idea!

Do NOT lock them up! When in doubt let them walk out!

Lest you be the named subject of a civil lawsuit, where you list your ASSets, and where the city will throw you under the bus just to make shitbird Rahm look good!

KMA 20+


9/14/2013 09:06:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Right hand--Hey who are you?
Left Hand---Well who are you?

9/14/2013 09:16:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Carrying in national parks is allowed if you have a valid permit and your state issued or recognizes that permit. The only way firearms are banned is that you can't carry into a building where federal employees work within that park (i.e. visitor centers, park office, etc).

What's so different from regular ccw?

9/14/2013 09:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What? Reciprocity? I follow this closely, but I've heard nothing about reciprocity.
Someone please clear this up.
Signed, NAC (not a cop)

9/14/2013 09:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If they have a valid FOID card and they're not a convicted felon, I'd let them go or prepare to be sued and lose.9/14/2013 09:09:00 AM

What if they don't want to show you their FOID because you're detaining them illegally? Then what?

9/14/2013 11:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

xo is the only appointed rank that approx. 90 % were promoted to sgt. and lt. under the MERIT system .

9/14/2013 11:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mp_2Vfe2F-0

9/15/2013 10:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
If they have a valid FOID card and they're not a convicted felon, I'd let them go or prepare to be sued and lose.9/14/2013 09:09:00 AM

What if they don't want to show you their FOID because you're detaining them illegally? Then what?

9/14/2013 11:02:00 PM

Then they go to jail!!!

9/15/2013 10:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lega affairs, yes cops that happen to have law degrees, is studying the situation.

9/14/2013 07:36:00 AM

Cops that were English majors are studying your post.

9/15/2013 12:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: the guy who wants to know what to do when someone refuses to show their FOID card to you on the basis they contest the validity of your stop

From: An officer with common sense

Treat it the same as a drivers license. On a traffic stop, if someone feels you pulled them over for no reason do they have the option to refuse the presentation of their drivers license? No. Part of the conditions of HAVING a DL is the mandatory presentation of it while operating a motor vehicle. Same thing with a FOID card.

If they challenge the grounds for the stop, that's what the court is there to decide. If you let it turn into a debate on the street, you've lost control of your stop.

9/15/2013 03:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
If they have a valid FOID card and they're not a convicted felon, I'd let them go or prepare to be sued and lose.9/14/2013 09:09:00 AM

What if they don't want to show you their FOID because you're detaining them illegally? Then what?

9/14/2013 11:02:00 PM

Then they go to jail!!!

9/15/2013 10:27:00 AM

Got to agree.

If it's a valid stop...with PC...And they are a CCW Holder.

On the flip side...

They are not required to display or inform about their FOID if they are not a legal CCW permit holder. Because they probably don't have their darn Piece with them unless the police encounter is at Their HOME.

But if the stop and detain is illegal and that is proven in court...say good bye to your pension and savings and etc..

9/15/2013 06:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do NOT lock them up! When in doubt let them walk out!

Lest you be the named subject of a civil lawsuit, where you list your ASSets, and where the city will throw you under the bus just to make shitbird Rahm look good!

KMA 20+

City usually doesnt throw you under the bus, the courts do by ordering punitive damages

9/15/2013 06:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Lega affairs, yes cops that happen to have law degrees, is studying the situation.

9/14/2013 07:36:00 AM

Cops that were English majors are studying your post.

9/15/2013 12:01:00 PM

And shaking their heads in total bewilderment.

9/15/2013 11:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no duty to inform in the
(430 ILCS 65/) Firearm Owners Identification Card Act.

Besides, it is illegal to pull over a driver just to request a driver's license.

9/16/2013 08:10:00 AM  
Anonymous O'Brien said...


9/14/2013 06:56:00 PM

Anonymous Anonymous said...
Illinois statute 720 ILCS 5 24 a(4), that states... A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly: Carries or possesses in any vehicle or CONCEALED on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm.


Maybe I'm dense today...but where in the above does it Prohibit Open Carry in a Holster or on a Shoulder sling?

9/14/2013 07:10:00 PM
***********************************
This is all up in the air right now, but you should probably read 24-1a10, for further information. It prohibits, or did prohibit, any carrying of firearms in any city, village or town.

9/16/2013 08:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
To: the guy who wants to know what to do when someone refuses to show their FOID card to you on the basis they contest the validity of your stop

From: An officer with common sense

Treat it the same as a drivers license. On a traffic stop, if someone feels you pulled them over for no reason do they have the option to refuse the presentation of their drivers license? No. Part of the conditions of HAVING a DL is the mandatory presentation of it while operating a motor vehicle. Same thing with a FOID card.

If they challenge the grounds for the stop, that's what the court is there to decide. If you let it turn into a debate on the street, you've lost control of your stop.

9/15/2013 03:48:00 PM

Thank you. When the police are on the scene we are in charge! Be the police!

9/16/2013 12:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chicago and Crook County politicians would like nothing better than to have its Police Agencies continue to violate the Law and lock up Law Abiding Gun owners and CCW people, in true Communist ignore the lwa fashion. Then, the evolving Lawsuits will be paid with OUR Middle-Class Taxpayer Dollars, not any of THEIR personal Money. Time for this to end now. They must be held accountable for Punative Damages as well, for illegal arrests. YOU are going to be, so why not them also?

9/16/2013 03:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1983

9/16/2013 05:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is the definition the ISP uses in regards to 'antique weapons'? Are they simply pre-1899?

9/17/2013 09:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

9/17/2013 10:15:00 PM  

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