Time for "Discovery"
- Nanci Koschman used to lie awake at night, unable to sleep, because the police blamed her only child, David Koschman, for his own death.
Now, she can’t sleep because she’s angry since learning the police lied to her.
So angry that she has decided to file a federal lawsuit accusing the Chicago Police Department of violating her son’s civil rights.
The Mount Prospect widow says she made that decision after reading the 162-page report of special prosecutor Dan K. Webb. In it, Webb described how police and prosecutors twice botched investigations — in 2004 and 2011 — into her son’s death, never charging Richard J. “R.J.” Vanecko, whose uncle Richard M. Daley was mayor during both of those investigations.
“It just felt like they didn’t take David’s rights into consideration at all,” Koschman said in an hourlong interview Friday with the Chicago Sun-Times and NBC5. “He was like a non-person. They were so busy trying to cover up what wasn’t done properly that they forgot that David existed.
We predicted a few years ago that the Police Department was going to take the brunt of this and the interview linked to this post doesn't dissuade us from that prediction one iota. The D-unit is going to take a public flogging over this one along with the brass. But there is plenty of blame to lay in the States Attorney's office and City Hall's reflexive defense of the "royal family" that has set in motion the destruction of Chicago and the State of Illinois.
Labels: scandals
posted by SCC at 6:01 AM
196 Comments:
Good for her..Good luck
GULP.
There will be a large settlement and NOBODY will be forced to testify under oath!
The city council will quietly ok and approve millions. The powers that be can't blame the police on this unless they want people to talk how they ALL knew and covered up what happened within hours of the punch and spin control upon his death!
And let's not forget the 'destruction' of the CPD as many of us knew it, as well.
"So angry that she has decided to file a federal lawsuit accusing the Chicago Police Department of violating her son’s civil rights." -- SCC
Don't no decent workin copper take this personal in any way.
I am sittin here as the sun comes up dealin with my own loss and maybe not doin the best job, but doin the best I can do.
Dug this out from 1975 --
"Oh Michael Oh Jesus you know I'm not to blame
"You know my reputation for playing a good clean game
"Oh Michael Oh Jesus I'll keep my promise when
"You turn that heartbeat over again"
--Steely Dan, "Turn That Heartbeat Over Again"
Got me between the eyes, doubled me over. Those of us who've been there -- well, you had to be there.
Ride on assist for Mrs. Koschman and all those who have had a family member torn from them.
Don't listen to anyone ordering you "It's over." They mean well, but they don't know. It can take 6 - 8 months before you START having nightmares from a traumatic situation. No timetable as to when it stops.
You kick yo ass up out of self-respect to pick up your jacket and water the plants and brush your teeth, and then try to get through the day.
...and ain't that a perfect blog post from someone who no longer even eats like they should...wasn't easy. We get shattered sometimes. Way it is.
God bless all here. Stay safe. Check six. Hold family together -- it is ultimately all you have.
Laziness and cronyism at its best
The Daley's still costing the city money it doesn't have. If anyone in the CPD looked the other way or helped crook Daley get his nephew out of this jam, one question for you. WAS IT WORTH IT NOW? I have so much distain for that subhuman that I wouldn't piss on him if he were on fire!!
Lets face the truth. Compared to a Daley nephew, Koschman is/was a non-entity. Some people are just part of the vast herd and some stand close to the throne. It is the way the world has always been and still is.
Webb described how police and prosecutors twice botched investigations
good thing the prosecutors have immunity....
I too predicted that this would end in a life-changing lawsuit for the detectives. However,the usual loud mouth copper stupidity prevailed and we kept hearing, "Da Statues of Limitations will protect da dicks." Citizens and coppers need to face the fact that the Federal Government does as it pleases and when it comes to Civil Rights and On-going Criminal Conspiracies, they can come after you long after the alleged offense! And in light of the fact that these detectives lied to protect the Daley Crime Family; selling tickets to the fundraiser is not going to be easy. RJ copped a plea and is going to claim he had nothing to do with the cover-up.
The real truth is that City Hall and the State's Attorney's office is WHY the police did what they did.
There were a few comments on here defending Yawger in recent weeks. If what Mrs. Koschman is saying is true, or if it is taken as true by a jury (i.e., if not true otherwise)...
Bullshit! She made her decision after reading Webb's report? Her scum lawyers were knocking down her door from the get-go. Don't get me wrong, I feel for her losing her son. But she and her team of legal "experts" are just going for the deep pockets of chicago taxpayers. Sue fucking Daley and Vaneckos, they started this shit.
Small drunk picks a fight with larger drunk? Sounds like little drunk was the dumb one to me..
No word on her sueing they family of the murderer. Only a blurb about the ccsao. The just says police = bad. I agree the fix was in and dayle doesn't need to make a call to anyone to make it happen. Now that's power. Shame on the D unit for blowing it off. But the real problem is the "merit" and management system in place that allows the yes men to operate.
She should!!! I hope she gets MILLIONS for the misery and heartache she's been going through!No one should have covered up for Daley's Family, NO ONE!!!!!
Interesting...Other people will do more time than Vanecko on this case. They will lose their jobs and pensions, while Vaneckoand the City will pay out money. Taxpayer money. While the protected will dodge another bullet. All of this because of the actions between two people on the streets of Chicago. There is a life taken away, by the results of Vanecko's actions. A Jury should have decided the proper punishment for those actions. Now a multitude of people will be punished to a greater degree who had no direct involvement with actions that took place that night. Webb's report stopped short of progressing up the political ladder and found it easier to pick the fall guy target...the Chicago Police Department. Once again, as always, it's seems that the Chicago Police Department can be used as a political and media football. Once again the Department will make the Supreme Sacrifice and take yet another hit while the Cook County State's Attorney's Office and the Political machine will walk away, untouched. So the bottom line is that David's death was caused by Vanecko's actions, but the CPD will pay for it with terminations, incarcerations, puntive damage awards and yet another black eye. Terminate Felony Review. Charge accordingly. Eliminate Prosecutorial Immunity. Quit allowing political influence to run the Chicago Police Department. I'm sorry for the Koschman family, I can never know their pain. But closer to home I know some good hardworking people are going to get thrown under the bus and that will also have an effect on their peronal lives and thier families. 99 Percent of this is all on Vanecko. Don't put the 99 percent on the CPD.
Two words: PUNITIVE DAMAGES
The whole thing is so sad and sickening. How do those involved sleep at night?
Suing the deep-pocket city, but not Vanecko.
It's about GREED, not justice.
I feel sorry for the dicks who followed the very strong "suggestions" for the brass. They are gonna pay, and might even loose the penions they worked hard for. They will take the tumble and the bosses will laugh all the way to the bank. They don't have to worry, city hall will protect them.
There is going to be NO discovery. Bank on this getting settled real quick.
I wish her all the best and, with God's grace, may the trail lead all the way to shanks the scumbag. Then she should also sue shanks and Vanecko.
And, how about the federal government getting involved for a violation of David Koschman's rights?
If they stretched to do it to Bill Cozzi, why can't they do it to Vanecko? Bill did not deserve it, but Vanecko richly deserves it.
This is what happens when you elect criminals to office so that they can run their organized crime with cover of law that they make themselves.
The next thing they will legislate is the end of your pensions. They will continue to get pensions and "political contributions" as well as set up themselves and their friends in crime with jobs, while you struggle to survive in retirement wondering how it happened.
Anyone who helped that family in any way deserves what's coming to them. I hope you got taken care of while Shartshanks was still in office. You can't hide the truth of his crimes forever.
off topic - charged with AGG BAT of an officer, resisting arrest and trespassing, then bonded out on individual recognizance? What happened, did the judge trade favors during the recess? http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/2014/03/23/berwyn-woman-charged-with-attacking-metra-officer/ak866ak/
I hope each and every detective that knowingly played a part in this cover up to include the bosses loses their house...the chickens have come home to roost assholes!
Cline has always micro-managed every facet of serious investigations.
I have no doubt that Chasen conferred with both Molloy and Cline prior to making any moves relating to investigative steps and report writing.
Andrews was probably contacted by either Cline or Molloy during the reopening of the investigation.
It will be interesting in how many invoke their 5th Amendment rights during the deposition process and will those involved be subject to punitive damages?
JAS says:
Why are they blaming you? Are you the judge and jury? SO now in addition to having to inject junkies with "WAKE UP" drugs, you have to be the judge and the jury too now? Any thing else the moronic public want to put on your shoulders? Are you to blame for the failure of Obamacare? Is it your fault the malaysian airliner crashed? WTF is wrong with these idiots? God bless all of you Officers every single day. Seriously.
Thanks to those on the CPD who went along with the clouted to cover this up and try to make this go away. Thanks guys as I look at the list of names of those involved and realize I worked with a few of you when you were new probationary PO's on this job and some I knew and worked with your Fathers. All of my 30+ years always watching guys like this who had CPD clout because of their Father's positions or the Detectives with clout who were taken care of from day one and then retired and got that big paying investigator job.
Yeah all the years of working my ass off and watching other good coppers bust their ass knowing this is what we chose to do. But also knowing that at anytime any of us could and some of us would be thrown under the bus because you were just a working copper with no clout.
So thanks to the CPD and many of the clouted CPD assholes who even in my retirement come back to remind me of just how corrupted the CPD truly is and how evil and corrupt the political machine in Chicago is and has always been. My advise to any wannabe future coppers is to move on and save your integrity and your soul and find yourself an honorable profession not a corrupted, dishonest, evil one like the CPD.
I hope it's a keel hauling not a flogging.
Every POS with a hand in this needs to be exposed!
Hopefully some punitive damages are forth coming.
Yes, she should also sue the cook county states attorney's office. But, as a retired police officer, i hope the detectives that participated in this coverup are held personally responsible.
OT: Red light ticket income sown,,,again.
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140324/chicago/red-light-camera-tickets-drop-for-fifth-straight-year-as-drivers-hit-brakes
And Mrs.Koschman will walk away with enough cash to buy a small country or perhaps a tropical island !
Ms Koschman I hope you sue the ever loving shit out of everybody involved. Those that attempted to make this go away faster than a virgins paycheck at a whore house to further their career should be slapped with enough punative that they eat spam throughout their retirement.
Wow how sad that AGAIN THE POLICE FAULT. When are the real culprits going to be exposed per se THE DALEY CRIME FAMILY. Tired of taking a beating and again covering up for those that are untouchable. Does not surprised me one bit they take care of you so you in turn must protect the machine. Whatever comes of this lawsuit start from the top and make your way down. That is all carry on.
Those involved- have fun sleeping. As usual, the Police will bear the brunt of it. No Pol will come to their aid. Not really worth it in hindsight.
Good for her. The city screwed her son and her trying to protect the Murdering Beast Vanecko. Don't stop with going after the clout baby cops..go find the politicians who ordered them to cover this case up for the Daley Crime Family.
Incompetence, collusion and/or indifference by the detectives and supervisors that were involved shouldn't create a "black eye " for the D Unit.
That shit went down because of those involved not any standing order followed by detectives on this department
This will settle. The City Can't afford this loss. This will be the largest settlement for police misconduct in history and it all falls at the tiny feet of one man, Thank you Mr Daley as if you haven't destroyed our city enough.
If Mrs. K was truly an advocate for her son she would not of accepted a plea deal for V she would of wanted fullest extent of prosecution.... leads me to think she saw something wrong with prosecution and now wants her chunk of flesh elsewhere.... Hope she sues V also for wrongful death ????
Something tells me that there will be a lot of retirements soon, Dean, Joe, Dennis, will put their papers in in short order.
Sad news. Retired CPD sgt. Elmer Brown has died today. He did not survive being shot in the neck from the home invasion on 10 March.
I suspect the city lawyers will reallocate any punitive damage awards and 9.5 will manage to pay the plaintiff
award in full as a delightful parting gift to those employees that subscribe to the Chicago Way
Take your hat off to the Suntimes. They had the balls to report this Daley bullshit.
thats what happens when you "cherry pick" cases, good for most of the people involved, not the ones that got duped!
I sure hope Shortshanks and all his "handlers" are named also.... they're the true culprits.
And only the police will have to pay because you can't sue a states attorney. It's time for the same protections for police as the states attorneys and judges
The biggest blame rests in the office of the States Attorney. They have shielded many with the mindset of a simple refusal to charge. While there most likely was one particular employee of the police department who was responsible for ensuring the matter was closely watched and that without a smoking gun, put forever away in the suspended files. The --don't work too hard-- mentality is going to bite that individual, along with a couple of subordinates because of his desire or direction to protect the interest of the City's clouted. I'd hate to see detectives jammed up for either being piss poor at being an investigator compounded by following direction. Those elements are embarrassing enough to all of us, but as you know the rest of their investigations were most likely met with the same lack of desire. I certainly hope the Federal lawsuit names the former Mayor and the members of his family and circle of friends who were involved in this, along with the staff members at City Hall who had their fork in the pie.
"Time for Discovery"
Can't wait to see these Chicago/Daley Inc. skeletons come tumbling out the closet in the various positions of copulation they're fused in...
But...
What will really be revealing at the federal level is the lengths the Obama D.O.J. will go to in order to make sure any federal investigation is intentionally short-stroked because all roads in this sorry mess begin and end with the Stuttering Prick himself.
We will say again... Daley Inc. got behind the Tan Prince and propelled him into the White House for TWO REASONS...
#1: They did NOT want a repeat of anything close to what propelled Harold Washington to the fifth floor of City Hall.
"The Smart Colored Guy" posed the greatetest possible impediment to the Daley Inc. birthright of being free to skim/steal outright and use a compliant news media as their own propoganda apparatus.
The prima Facie evidence is the approximately $15 Billion in tax payer treasure that has gone >poof< during Daley's reign.
(But somehow, Police, Fire and other muni employees are being blamed for this)
#2: Daley Inc. moved Heaven, Earth, some choice precints in Hell and marshalled every national democratic & liberal yellow-pinky resource to insure that the Tan Prince aka "Himself" was elected.
This was Daley Inc.'s federal insurance policy and hedge against any feeb snooping into the numerous criminal misdeeds of Daley Inc.
The Tan Prince and those in his circle owe their EVERYTHING to Daley Inc. This includes Rahm & Co. as well.
Who else catches the ongoing awkward pauses and strained silence if not flat out energetic avoidance of tying Daley Inc. to all that ails this city?
WHO actually has the goods on WHOM? Or is there some kind of unholy détente at work here?
>Crickets... Empty flamin' hots bag and bbq take-out tray dancing in the wind... A rat scampering across the street... A dog sniffs, squats and takes a shit<
"It's all you Coppers fault!"
The crazy being peddled in this town is nigh near insurmountable.
If there were anything remotely resembling justice in this town, there would be an elected council of High Hangmen and and they would be rightfully strong from busily yanking levers on the dirty criminal dogs who ruined this city.
Only those vile, politically connected creatures are allowed to thrive in Chicago.
This is the place where the dreams and aspirations of many a good men lies buried with them.
Clout is corrosive, vile and destructive.
Clout as it is exercised in Chicago means all of the above plus people have and can die to to insure those clouted people, institutions and interests are protected at all costs.
Chicago is truly a perversion even among perverse things.
This is going to get even uglier before it is all through. Heads will roll and don't be surprised if punitive damages are assessed if this ever goes to trial. Don't know if the U.S. Attorney is involved, but wouldn't be surprised if they are. Of course Daley won't be implicated but I think the Dets. involved, bosses and some people from the States Attorney's office might have a lot to worry about.
Mrs Koschman Im sorru you lost your son but the police didnt kill him and the low life that did, in my opinion, spent far to short a time in jail to pay for it.
The Officers involved in it are just pawns. Had they done the right thing they would have been crushed, maybe the careers of their kids crushed. This is what happens when we crown Kings and Queens instead of electing public servants who want to serve the Public.
And your part of it to, as am I, as is every other voter and honest citizen in this corrupt state. If your just angry at the Police then you dont see where the real power Lies in IL.
The only thing your going to get out of this law suite is money. The money will come from people like you and I. People who have lived honorable lives, either by personal morals or with the knowledge we lack a seat at the table and the powers that be will step on us should we step out of line.
It will not bring your son back. It will not stop Vaneckos from pulling their stunts. It will not remove the power from the Kings and Queens nor will it change the system that requires Police and others to kiss their rings to get ahead.
It will change nothing. Im so very sorry you lost your son to this bully scumbag....signed CPD PO of 30 years.
Found out that Retired Sgt. Elmer "Al" Brown passed away early this AM. Confirmed by Area South. Al was shot in the neck by two unknowns males.
And the S of L will be tolled based on continuing conspiracy-everyone better take the Fifth and not leave it to chance like Burge.
God bless Nanci Koschman. Make all these scumbags that covered up your sons death pay. Hope they all rot on hell. The entire case was fixed from the beginning.
Millions more Daley will cost the city.
This is a perfect example to point out how "clout" can destroy everything. From the mayors office, to the states attorneys office, political aids, detective division, patrol division, every single hand picked, appointed, merit pick to these jobs lent a hand to divert, cover up, walk away, ignore all the evidence presented to them and turn a blind eye to David K. I hope the news media realize or eventually find out that these people are the ones who compromised the case. These people are put there to do exactly that, they are front men, buffers, knowingly or unknowingly willing to take the hit for the real culprit. That's what this city is all about and it's been like this for years. Only the hand picked get these spots, heaven forbid they put people with a conscience in there, this bullshit would stop real quick. That's what there afraid of, legitimacy. I hope his mother goes all the way with this because it's long overdue.
In the meantime Richie Vanecko sits in county jail doing his 6 months for murder. Can only hope there is a Judgement Day and this skunk goes straight to Hell.
Still no IAD investigation?
The retired dick think they are safe!
Hate to tell them they could still lose the pension if a finding of corruption is found even in a civil case.
Reason being is the fact of the case occurred when they were employed by the department and the crime was hidden(obstruction).
Good for her
I guess I don't have much sympathy for those who are going to go through the meat grinder for this.
WHY? Because they could have done something but instead, chose to "go with the flow" and let the investigation get muddled to protect the clouted.
(Hey, we're in a Cloutocracy, we need to "go with the flow" - there might be a promotion in it later.)
Ever watch the movie, "A Few Good Men"? At the end, the one Marine Downey, asks corporal Dawson, why they were getting kicked out of the Marines for conduct unbecoming a marine?
And Downey said - because they didn't stand up for Santiago, the guy who died.
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!
Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.
Well? Isn't this the same thing? People who should lose their job and their pensions for covering up the investigation knew they were doing wrong.
That is the problem in this Cloutocracy. It won't be the people on top who pay for this injustice, it will be the people close to the bottom.
Those who could not and would not stand up to the pressures of their superiors telling them to "bend the details" so that the kid who died was the one initiating the fight.
So no one who worked on this case should ask, "What did we do wrong?"
No one should feel that they are being held up against a higher standard because they aren't.
They didn't do the basic function of their job. They didn't report the facts. Instead, they massaged them to fit a phony story.
I am sure I will get some back flak for saying this, but it had to be said. Those who twisted the facts did so to gain favor for a future promotion or to be rewarded in some way for "protecting" the clouted.
Now it backfired. Well, when you play with fire - you eventually feel the heat.
It's hard to stand up for principles, isn't it?
Next case.
without clout and chicago u are nothing!it is so sad!
Hmmm, good thing the stuttering prick had his stroke. Now he got a disbableity. Stupid fucks that did anything for that criminal family.
I hope this leads to the establishment of the commemorative "Daley Wing" at Stateville, occupied by members of his clout abusing family.
Then we can Rename the Daley Building to The "Koschmann Memorial Building" in honor of the victim of this family.
Does that mean that the G's work is finnito?
I'm hoping she sticks to what is JUST… and not what is monetarily beneficial. She could get a million bucks BUT that won't stop this from happening again… I hope she sticks to her guns and that C H A N G E S occur in the way this department and this State's Attny's office is run...FEDERAL OVERSIGHT….
The cover up is always worse than the crime itself.
Are you all out of your mind? This thing is going to get settled so fast.
If all the officers involved acted righteously and with integrity then they have nothing to fear. However if they acted with corrupt intentions, then it will be known, for when corrupt things are done under darkness, the truth, that is the light, will expose it.
I will back a cop 110% and then some. But someone needs to pay for this.
A cops sister.
You could hear a pin drop up at Area North once this story broke.
No amount of money can console the broken heart of this mother. Too the dimwit that said 'a little drunk picked a fight with a bigger drunk', you are wrong. That's why mom is suing and will win.
In a perfect world, the coppers that conspired, or at least performed for the politicians that are their masters, those copper would pay big punitive damages. The politicians would be remembered by the voters and their families and anyone associated with them would be voted out of office. Plucked from the trough.
In a perfect world, more conspirators would go to jail. The witnesses that lied and the bosses that facilitated this travesty.
We don't live in a perfect world.
I wish you peace Mrs Koschman. As a parent, I know it will escape you for the rest of your life. There are good people in the world. I hope you have a few of them in your life to give you comfort.
To the citizens, remember this and vote responsibly.
Small drunk picks a fight with larger drunk
Ass wipe, Big drunk wasn't the one being messed with. He got into something that was non of his business. He should have stayed and dealt with it but instead, ran like the coward and bully he is
All of you fellow police officers assuming there was a cover up and hope for the demise of these guys based on the Sun Times are a disgrace. They're getting thrown under the bus and you all cheer. I'd never want to work with any of you.
Think it can never happen to you? Think again and imagine fellow officers who don't know you making judgements about you. Very sad that you people are the police.
Who were the bosses when this went down?
In effort to avoid more court publicity, the City and County will pickup the entire multimillion out-of-court settlement, sparing The Borgia's...I mean The DALEY'S, any liability, bad publicity or admission of fault.
The kick in the sack will be Lord Shortshanks is finally dead, they'll erect a statue and dedeicate another $60m park in his honor.
Perry F'ing Mason said...
I guess I don't have much sympathy for those who are going to go through the meat grinder for this.
WHY? Because they could have done something but instead, chose to "go with the flow" and let the investigation get muddled to protect the clouted.
(Hey, we're in a Cloutocracy, we need to "go with the flow" - there might be a promotion in it later.)
Ever watch the movie, "A Few Good Men"? At the end, the one Marine Downey, asks corporal Dawson, why they were getting kicked out of the Marines for conduct unbecoming a marine?
And Downey said - because they didn't stand up for Santiago, the guy who died.
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!
Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.
Well? Isn't this the same thing? People who should lose their job and their pensions for covering up the investigation knew they were doing wrong.
That is the problem in this Cloutocracy. It won't be the people on top who pay for this injustice, it will be the people close to the bottom.
Those who could not and would not stand up to the pressures of their superiors telling them to "bend the details" so that the kid who died was the one initiating the fight.
So no one who worked on this case should ask, "What did we do wrong?"
No one should feel that they are being held up against a higher standard because they aren't.
They didn't do the basic function of their job. They didn't report the facts. Instead, they massaged them to fit a phony story.
I am sure I will get some back flak for saying this, but it had to be said. Those who twisted the facts did so to gain favor for a future promotion or to be rewarded in some way for "protecting" the clouted.
Now it backfired. Well, when you play with fire - you eventually feel the heat.
It's hard to stand up for principles, isn't it?
Next case.
3/24/2014 04:08:00 PM
Great analogy. Right on the money.
This is a serious question (no offense meant to Mrs. Koschman):
Will the question even be asked - Would Vanecko have been charged if this had gone straight down the line?
No one thinks this is a relevant question?
Good going for Mrs. Koschman, I wish her the best. I hope she gets millions out of this corrupt evil regime and millions more in punitive against anyone who can be clearly shown to have cooperated in this criminal cover-up.
The best thing that could happen would be if good , decent and honorable police officers and detectives who know of the the inner workings of this charade would come forward and give evidence on this. Now that would be the decent thing to do. For Mrs. Koschman and all of us. Help give the City faith in their police department once more.
Anonymous Retired CPD said...
She should!!! I hope she gets MILLIONS for the misery and heartache she's been going through!No one should have covered up for Daley's Family, NO ONE!!!!!
3/24/2014 09:19:00 AM
Obviously you don't pay taxes here in Chicago anymore and you must not have a pension check coming in, either. I do NOT wish for another coffer-busting multimillion dollar payout.
The questions Dean Andrews will be asking in the not to distant future will likely be, "Which salad dressing would you like with that Ma'am?" "Would you like some freshly ground black pepper?" "Individual checks or can I put it all on one check?"
Anonymous said...
Bullshit! She made her decision after reading Webb's report? Her scum lawyers were knocking down her door from the get-go. Don't get me wrong, I feel for her losing her son. But she and her team of legal "experts" are just going for the deep pockets of chicago taxpayers. Sue fucking Daley and Vaneckos, they started this shit.
3/24/2014 09:03:00 AM
And who carried out the criminal conspiracy? The Police Department and the CCSA office, that's who.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
If this same fight happened coming out of a bar at Madison & Pulaski this would be a big 19-Paul
This can be traced to rham the commander if his detail was given that spot to be quiet. And he picked up the nephew that night afterward and told Richie what was going on and told to take care if it.
If Mrs. K was truly an advocate for her son she would not of accepted a plea deal for V she would of wanted fullest extent of prosecution.... leads me to think she saw something wrong with prosecution and now wants her chunk of flesh elsewhere.... Hope she sues V also for wrongful death ????
She had no choice. The ASA discusses it with you, but the victim is not the deciding factor. The ASA has the final decision
3/24/2014 07:09:00 AM
If she has Have a Brain in the lawyer she hired, I'd refuse a settlement outside of Open Court.
I'd push for allocation in court with the settlement (but I know I'm smokin' crak here.)
who promoted former LT Regina Evans! What a piece of crap she turned out to become now its time for her to just dry up and blow away!
What we need is more legitimacy training.
City Hall has too much control over the police department. Pull the phone records of Daley's advisor the night of, and just trace the lines.
All these departments are too intertwined. Take a look at Ladner, moving from CPD to wherever the hell she ended up.
Why don't we lease Maggie Daley park for 99 years and use that money to pay the suit out.
There may be some punitive damages but no one will be fired, lose their pensions or end up in jail.
Think about it. They had this one buried pretty deep, didn't expect it to ever come up and bite them in the ass. Files lost, fucked up line ups, now dan webb and this.
Good for her
3/24/2014 03:48:00 PM
Anonymous Perry F'ing Mason said...
I guess I don't have much sympathy for those who are going to go through the meat grinder for this.
WHY? Because they could have done something but instead, chose to "go with the flow" and let the investigation get muddled to protect the clouted.
(Hey, we're in a Cloutocracy, we need to "go with the flow" - there might be a promotion in it later.)
Ever watch the movie, "A Few Good Men"? At the end, the one Marine Downey, asks corporal Dawson, why they were getting kicked out of the Marines for conduct unbecoming a marine?
And Downey said - because they didn't stand up for Santiago, the guy who died.
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!
Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.
Well? Isn't this the same thing? People who should lose their job and their pensions for covering up the investigation knew they were doing wrong.
That is the problem in this Cloutocracy. It won't be the people on top who pay for this injustice, it will be the people close to the bottom.
Those who could not and would not stand up to the pressures of their superiors telling them to "bend the details" so that the kid who died was the one initiating the fight.
So no one who worked on this case should ask, "What did we do wrong?"
No one should feel that they are being held up against a higher standard because they aren't.
They didn't do the basic function of their job. They didn't report the facts. Instead, they massaged them to fit a phony story.
I am sure I will get some back flak for saying this, but it had to be said. Those who twisted the facts did so to gain favor for a future promotion or to be rewarded in some way for "protecting" the clouted.
Now it backfired. Well, when you play with fire - you eventually feel the heat.
It's hard to stand up for principles, isn't it?
Next case.
3/24/2014 04:08:00 PM
Yes Indeed!
So thanks to the CPD and many of the clouted CPD assholes who even in my retirement come back to remind me of just how corrupted the CPD truly is and how evil and corrupt the political machine in Chicago is and has always been. My advise to any wannabe future coppers is to move on and save your integrity and your soul and find yourself an honorable profession not a corrupted, dishonest, evil one like the CPD.
__________________________________
All merit, can't wait to see the list.
To all you bitter finger pointing assholes.....fuck you. Bucky Beaver protects Daley and throws the cops and prosecutors under the bus and you believe what that scumbag has to say.
For all those who said this case will settle out of court, if mrs kochsman really isn't in this for the money, why would she settle? I think she wants to expose everything. Don't think any judge would force this case to settle. It's gonna get a lot uglier
Fuck those guys who let the killer of this kid go free. Let them lose there homes, their jobs, their pensions, everything they own. Let them walk the streets the rest of there days like Jacob Marley with chains hanging from them and moaning in pain. And when they did, let them haunt the D division warning other detectives of the error of their ways, in an effort to save their immortal souls.
What about the "commanders" of the detail Keating Roti Thompson? They were the beginning of the coverup Thompson met Venecko and his pals at the bar to get their story together. Roti and Keating made it happen with the bosses of the d unit. Who will take the deal first? Hmmm, Me thinks Sammy is hopping on that fed train.
Mrs Koschman,
I am sorry for your loss. I am a Chicago Police Lieutenant that has never been promoted through Merit. That word makes me sick. Please accept my apologies about a Police Department that is filled with nepotism, corruption and gross incompetence. I want you to suit the pants off this police department. Please include the names of Mayor Daley, Constatine Andrews, Debra Kirby, Anita Alvarez and everybody else involved. I guarantee you Mrs. Koschman you will receive much support from real Chicago Police Officers who will bring you the evidence you will need for your case. This police department is a joke!!! It stinks. Shame on the FBI and bulllshit IAD unit who takes there orders from politicians and has trashed their Oath. Suit Mrs Koschman. Make them pay.
Anonymous said...
Lets face the truth. Compared to a Daley nephew, Koschman is/was a non-entity. Some people are just part of the vast herd and some stand close to the throne. It is the way the world has always been and still is.
3/24/2014 08:12:00 AM
If that is the case then people should take justice into their own hands.
Mrs Koschman said it perfect. They all went to a bar after and met up and didn't talk about it. The case started with her beer muscle son turning 21 and his drunken friends. It then continued with RJ and his drunken friends. Everyone lied to the police.Then Yawger gets the case from O'Leary and Clements because they went on furlough so what. Yawger attempts to get charges and the line up is held and what are the lawyers crying about the lineup is too good.Then no one picks him so the state doesn't charge BECAUSE NO ONE PICK HIM.Further more Webb never connects the dots with the mayor and Cline. Cline spoke with the mayor everyday and he said this never came up,yeah sure. Molloy said he spoke with Grau and Grau doesn't remember that,again really. This is what you get when clouted suck hole bosses get the merit boost and can't make a decision without calling Phil.The Dets always take the brunt of the heat because of the bosses who the day they get promoted start worrying about losing there spot and would toss there own mother to the lions to stay on top.Hope the Dets come out of this OK. Give Mrs Koschman her do and be over it. Remember nothing good happens after midnight.Quit burning the Dets and start at the top.
Coming soon, The book driving the Boss, The secrets revieled by a Daley Bodyguard.
SCC:
This is going to blow up even more, a tribune reporter has FOIA all requests, nomination packages of merit promotions of members linked to this case. The reporter has specifically listed names (all are associated with this case). When it comes out that most were merit - the city will wish it settles this years ago.
3/24/2014 04:24:00 PM
Excellent analogy. The Few Good Men reference is spot on. We're (the Police ) supposed to help those that cannot fight for themselves.
Maybe it's just me but doesn't this whole case remind some of us who were born in the 60's and 70's as the lyrics to a song called Karn Evil 9.
Good luck DW.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Take your hat off to the Suntimes. They had the balls to report this Daley bullshit.
3/24/2014 01:32:00 PM
Yeah, only AFTER Daley left office.
I'm sorry for this woman's loss, but, didn't this tragedy begin with two drunks having an altercation outside a bar? Doesn't her son bear some responsibility in what happened?
Yawger covered it up, and got a well-paying political job as a reward. He needs to: 1) Go to jail. 2) Lose his pension. 3) Get hit with a stiff punitive damage award. The public needs to see that there are consequences for violating your oath of office. A 32 year veteran, now retired.
Shame on you, Joe Salemme. You aren't a drunken pervert like Walsh. You should have known better. I thought YOU had integrity. Was it worth it?
Dean Andrews, Go back to the family business of flipping burgers. Let's practice: "Cheeseborger, cheeseborger, cheeseborger....no fries.... chips. You have to feed the police for free. Otherwise, when you need them....they don't come!!" See...I knew you could do it.
To the person who said he/she would not piss on Daley if he was on fire......I would.
I hope with all my heart that she refuses any 'Settlement" (to be read ...."hush money"). I would very much like to see those that obfuscated, ham-handed, curried-favor, back-scratched, etc ad nauseum.....get fu**ed. Perhaps the trail may lead back to our former czar? Stand your ground young Lady...we are behind you, praying that the light of justice (to be read "a vague legal concept") shine on those cockroaches the democrats love empowering.
Anonymous said...
I too predicted that this would end in a life-changing lawsuit for the detectives. However,the usual loud mouth copper stupidity prevailed and we kept hearing, "Da Statues of Limitations will protect da dicks." Citizens and coppers need to face the fact that the Federal Government does as it pleases and when it comes to Civil Rights and On-going Criminal Conspiracies, they can come after you long after the alleged offense! And in light of the fact that these detectives lied to protect the Daley Crime Family; selling tickets to the fundraiser is not going to be easy. RJ copped a plea and is going to claim he had nothing to do with the cover-up.
3/24/2014 08:31:00 AM
Listen GOOF. The bosses in this Dept have for the longest time, stuck their incompetent noses in investigations that they should not have treating Detectives like children who require babysitters. There are only a few bosses who know their stuff, VERY FEW.
Don't blame the Dics, blame the know it all, all knowing white shirt gods for this one...
If you leave the dics alone, the story follows the path of the investigation, whether its a favorable outcome or not...
More millions that Richard M. Daley will cost this city. When will the truth come out about how bad he screwed the CPD and Chicago?
To any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit. I am sick and tired of the corruption in this city, and within this department we look like fools again. This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide and if you as a fucking detective cannot have the balls or the guts to do what's right and speak for the deceased then get the fuck off this job, same applies for the bosses that orchestrated this they should get double the jail time as you fucking morons should lead by example and make sure shit like this DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! To all of you... Fuck you very much, I hope it was worth it and I hope you enjoy losing everything you ever worked for...to Mrs Kochman, I hope you get $30 million from this shithole for what they did to you and your son...you deserve every penny. I am sorry
To any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit. I am sick and tired of the corruption in this city, and within this department we look like fools again. This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide and if you as a fucking detective cannot have the balls or the guts to do what's right and speak for the deceased then get the fuck off this job, same applies for the bosses that orchestrated this they should get double the jail time as you fucking morons should lead by example and make sure shit like this DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! To all of you... Fuck you very much, I hope it was worth it and I hope you enjoy losing everything you ever worked for...to Mrs Kochman, I hope you get $30 million from this shithole for what they did to you and your son...you deserve every penny. I am sorry
.........
I'm with you, brother. Totally agree. If a cop obeys an order from a supervisor knowing that it is unlawful, they are both guilty of a federal crime - Color of Law. Just say no.
I am pissed that this corrupt city and police department keep costing us taxpayers money. There are many exempt who led both investigations, and their personal monies should be awarded to the deceased's family. Blood money.
"Anonymous said...
The questions Dean Andrews will be asking in the not to distant future will likely be, "Which salad dressing would you like with that Ma'am?" "Would you like some freshly ground black pepper?" "Individual checks or can I put it all on one check?"
Actually, it should be "Do you want fries with that?"
You know, mrs K clearly states that the people named in this lawsuit were based on Webbs report. You know damn well that Webb knew that mrs K would eventually file a civil suit, and that's why he glossed over portions of his investigation. Like the mayors detail, who are barely mentioned in the report, other than a few 'I don't recalls'.
Webb said in his report that he could not obtain phone records from 2004, because the phone companies do not save that far back. Well, phone bills for all CPD personnel with department phones go thru the chain of command each month with a cover letter. They are filed and end up in the archives. It may be a long shot, but it would be worth a big dig. Although it's possible those phone bills were destroyed per retention or per someone else who was thinking like me.
Bottom line, Webb did not dig deep enough into the mayors detail, because many know they were involved and did way worse than everyone else involved. But Webb did that on purpose - to save the detail and the mayors family from being the named defendants in this civil suit.
All of you fellow police officers assuming there was a cover up and hope for the demise of these guys based on the Sun Times are a disgrace. They're getting thrown under the bus and you all cheer. I'd never want to work with any of you.
Think it can never happen to you? Think again and imagine fellow officers who don't know you making judgements about you. Very sad that you people are the police.
Very well said.
Have any of you critics ever investigated a case of drunk punches drunk and one drunk dies? The ASA has NEVER charged these types of cases. I retired after 30years and spent a long time in violent crimes. Go look at the history of these types of cases and show me criminal charges in any of these cases. I hate Daley, too but it's a disgrace that you would back a rag newspaper that would hang you out try in a New York minute.
To any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit. I am sick and tired of the corruption in this city, and within this department we look like fools again. This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide and if you as a fucking detective cannot have the balls or the guts to do what's right and speak for the deceased then get the fuck off this job, same applies for the bosses that orchestrated this they should get double the jail time as you fucking morons should lead by example and make sure shit like this DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! To all of you... Fuck you very much, I hope it was worth it and I hope you enjoy losing everything you ever worked for...to Mrs Kochman, I hope you get $30 million from this shithole for what they did to you and your son...you deserve every penny. I am sorry
3/25/2014 04:10:00 AM
You have obviously never tried to get a similar case charged in your time on the job. If you had you would know that the state doesn't charge one punch drunk fights. The little big mouth had a BAC of 3X the legal limit and got in a fight with a big asshole. result predictable.
Anonymous said...
I'm sorry for this woman's loss, but, didn't this tragedy begin with two drunks having an altercation outside a bar? Doesn't her son bear some responsibility in what happened?
3/24/2014 11:23:00 PM
Yes, he does. vanecko punched him but he was part of the fight. I can't believe that all these coppers are backing this little drunk and throwing their own to the wolves. No wonder the city walks all over us.
Anonymous said...
To any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit. I am sick and tired of the corruption in this city, and within this department we look like fools again. This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide and if you as a fucking detective cannot have the balls or the guts to do what's right and speak for the deceased then get the fuck off this job, same applies for the bosses that orchestrated this they should get double the jail time as you fucking morons should lead by example and make sure shit like this DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! To all of you... Fuck you very much, I hope it was worth it and I hope you enjoy losing everything you ever worked for...to Mrs Kochman, I hope you get $30 million from this shithole for what they did to you and your son...you deserve every penny. I am sorry
3/25/2014 04:10:00 AM
Really, you have never been told by a boss to do something at the time you did not think it was wrong? Look at the SOS scandal with finnegan why did no bosses go to prison? Do you think for 1 minute bosses did not know? Did not tell the SOS boys to keep doing what they were doing? Be fair! SOS guys pulled up anywhere the bad guys were really scared and ran, how does that work today, nope they don't run the challenge you.
Now we have all learned a lesson, unfortunately it will cost the city and coppers some retired big bucks, koschman deserves it no doubt, why are there 3 not named Daley family members? Who are the political scum behind the curtains? Let's hope it's not all the lowly coppers and detectives that take the brunt, hopefully God willing the Feds go up the food chain to the top of the criminal political empire. Why was dales guys promoted on his detail quickly to commander? Something to think about? Vanecko 60 days in jail? Bet he gets catered food brought in everyday for murder! Bet he is in isolation, completely protected you would not want a tough prisoner serving real time to hit the coward and try to escape! Bottom line is question whatever bosses tell you, if they want something in report you don't think is peoples state in report at direction of boss whoever and put it in the report! ,
"And who carried out the criminal conspiracy? The Police Department and the CCSA office, that's who.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
3/24/2014 06:29:00 PM
What criminal conspiracy? Webb's report said he could not find enough evidence to prosecute. Did you ever see the movie "The Oxbow Incident"? People here are hanging the coppers without so much as an indictment let alone a trial.
There will be no settlement, she doesn't want the money she wants justice and she has all the time in the world. If anyone thinks they are going to get out of this with a sweet little $30 million from the city to the bereaved, you are sadly mistaken.
"This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide"
3/25/2014 04:10:00 AM
The real problem is that the State's Attorney's office treats these cases as if they were drop cases. For years and years coppers, detectives, have been beating their heads against the wall fighting for even these Involuntary Homicides to get treated as they should. Like it or not, and ask any experienced copper in 018 or any other District with an entertainment distict, this case was handled no differently by the ASA's office than any other similar case. THAT is the REAL problem. Soon or later you get tired of banging your head against the wall with never putting so much as a dent in the wall.
And Bill Cozzi got 5 years in prison for bitch slapping the a drunk who was spitting at people. And he did all 5 years..
Anyone who has given up on this department should read many of the comments here. It proves there is a beacon of hope provided by a corps of honorable hard-working officers who will never give up the fight to bring high standards of integrity back to law enforcement and the CPD. Thank you and God Bless you.
First of all, this will be settled quickly - no deps. Second, it is impossible to directly tie this to Daley. Implication and innuendo, yes. But no one will be tied to any conversation with that POS former mayor of ours.
I guess Northwestern Hospital should expect Daley to come in for observation again. He could rest for a few days again.
To the Lieutenant who posted on 3/24 @0927hrs, who the fuck are you to judged other coppers? just because you never were promoted on merit, gives you a right to blast others? You never walked a gray area, never bruised your soul in the course of police work? Well, No wonder you did well on exams, you were hiding behind some desk studying the whole time. You sir/maim are obviously a coward!
Whether mistakes were made by the involved, I would not wish ill on another copper. YOU are part of the problem-with leadership that you just displayed by your words and self back patting, no wonder young officers are afraid to work. YOU obviously would sell your own mother down the river.
Signed - a lowly Sgt.
Koschman was as much at fault as Vanecko was. Everytime I see ol crocodile tears on TV, I cant help but think she is after money. First she said she wasn't interested in money, Just the truth. Now she wants a civil suit to get the truth. The real truth is, she is after money, Plain and simple. Her kid was no angel in this mess.
The tragic irony is if things were done on the up and up, Vanecko and the lying scumbags he hung with came in and told the truth and a proper lineup was done etc... he would have fared much better and nobody would be looking to jam up nobody with a federal beef.
I cannot believe what I am reading from fellow Officers...Disgusting.
You guys want to blame Daley so badly that you are rejecting the fact that there has been absoloutly no evidence to implicate him.
You folks have such a need to find Daley guilty of something...anything...that you are even willing to throw your fellow Officers to the wolves.
Why do you not believe your fellow Officers (Detectives) when they say they have done all they could do?
These types of results of investigations happen every day in this city. As any Homicide Detective that.
No matter what anyone says, this is a fascinating case. I can't wait for the movie. Who is going to play all these characters?
Who is gonna sing first?
I'm supportive of Mrs. Koschman. The problem is that no one will go to jail, no one will lose their job or pension and no real change will happen. The city will settle with a gag order, obviously, and as a taxpayer we'll pay for it. But the cancer remains.
I'd like to think there's a good number of solid police out there, but there's also a sizeable number of shitbags in uniform who have no problem not upholding the law. And why wouldn't they? There's very little risk if you get caught. What does it take to get fired as an officer?
All the money in the world won't bring back Mrs. Koschman her son. But at the same time, all that money at trial won't institute any reforms at the CCSAO, CPD or City Hall.
The Dets asked for charges, the states attorney flunky was at the lineup. All Darrin O'Brien had to do was something he hated to do anyway and that was approve charges that the Dets were asking for. Remember the police dept cannot override a homicide from the States Attorney's rejection. There is no law on that , just department policy. Felony review needs to be changed to a legal advisory format for the police including homicides and let the police charge who then believe needs to go to trial. Prior to Bernard Carey becoming States Attorney the detectives approved felony charges not no balls lawyers.
With a new US attorney in place he's looking to make himself known and establish a reputation. Don't be surprised if their is a federal investigation into this. This is just the beginning. When corruption is done it eventually comes to light. Hope the promise of future promotions was woth it for these guys.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
To any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit. I am sick and tired of the corruption in this city, and within this department we look like fools again. This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide and if you as a fucking detective cannot have the balls or the guts to do what's right and speak for the deceased then get the fuck off this job, same applies for the bosses that orchestrated this they should get double the jail time as you fucking morons should lead by example and make sure shit like this DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! To all of you... Fuck you very much, I hope it was worth it and I hope you enjoy losing everything you ever worked for...to Mrs Kochman, I hope you get $30 million from this shithole for what they did to you and your son...you deserve every penny. I am sorry
3/25/2014 04:10:00 AM
Agreed, but you forget that the SA office was involved as well. Daley was the ASA for a while and they all owe him something. They are to blame for THEIR missing files, as the PD is is for theirs.
Don't be surprised if the U.S. Attorney and the FBI get involved in this before it is all over, and if they do I hope that they get everyone that was involved in this cover up. I am no expert but there has to be Federal Civil Rights violations here. I hope that Ms. Koschman does not settle and that all the ugly details of this fiasco come out at trial.
To any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit. I am sick and tired of the corruption in this city, and within this department we look like fools again. This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide and if you as a fucking detective cannot have the balls or the guts to do what's right and speak for the deceased then get the fuck off this job, same applies for the bosses that orchestrated this they should get double the jail time as you fucking morons should lead by example and make sure shit like this DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! To all of you... Fuck you very much, I hope it was worth it and I hope you enjoy losing everything you ever worked for...to Mrs Kochman, I hope you get $30 million from this shithole for what they did to you and your son...you deserve every penny. I am sorry
If you think this is a Homicide you never worked on one. This is a bar fight that happened to move out onto the street. There are two willing participants and one lost.
To any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit. I am sick and tired of the corruption in this city, and within this department we look like fools again. This isn't a drop case with. Couple bags of weed...this is a homicide and if you as a fucking detective cannot have the balls or the guts to do what's right and speak for the deceased then get the fuck off this job, same applies for the bosses that orchestrated this they should get double the jail time as you fucking morons should lead by example and make sure shit like this DOES NOT HAPPEN!!! To all of you... Fuck you very much, I hope it was worth it and I hope you enjoy losing everything you ever worked for...to Mrs Kochman, I hope you get $30 million from this shithole for what they did to you and your son...you deserve every penny. I am sorry
3/25/2014 04:10:00 AM
Uh…funny you put no blame on Patrick Daley, Venecko or his gal pal. Go hide in the station loser.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm sorry for this woman's loss, but, didn't this tragedy begin with two drunks having an altercation outside a bar? Doesn't her son bear some responsibility in what happened?
3/24/2014 11:23:00 PM
The trial is over. The offender was found guilty. The issue on the table is the cover-up, in an attempt to aid the clouted nephew of Daley II, not who instigated the incident.
No, David Koschman did not bear any responsibility in the subsequent administrative cover-up.
GULP??? No shit... Follow the family tree on these merits.
Anonymous said...
Those involved- have fun sleeping. As usual, the Police will bear the brunt of it. No Pol will come to their aid. Not really worth it in hindsight.
Chicago, a society of people not of laws
Pretty sure Yawger or a close family member posts here to defend Yawger. There is so much damning the guy, and the whole chain above him, and yet the same BS comments keep appearing here.
Lineup (took a month)
Grand jury statement (good luck with that one in front of a civil jury)
Mrs. Koschman's recollection (good luck with that one also in front of a civil jury).
Best thing about this case is the huge number of people named. Thinking its pretty unlikely anybody will be able to settle out early from this one.
To the Lieutenant who posted on 3/24 @0927hrs, who the fuck are you to judged other coppers? just because you never were promoted on merit, gives you a right to blast others? You never walked a gray area, never bruised your soul in the course of police work? Well, No wonder you did well on exams, you were hiding behind some desk studying the whole time. You sir/maim are obviously a coward!
Whether mistakes were made by the involved, I would not wish ill on another copper. YOU are part of the problem-with leadership that you just displayed by your words and self back patting, no wonder young officers are afraid to work. YOU obviously would sell your own mother down the river.
Signed - a lowly Sgt.
Fuck you Merit Bitch!!! You can never teach me anything on leadership. 18 years on a tact team in 11 before I made Sgt. 8 years as a Tact Sgt on the South side before making Lt. Fuck all the names I mentioned and then some. Andrews, Keating, Kirby, Keating, Thompson (who was never the police let alone a commander) I hope Mrs K makes millions off the city. Andrews sold his soul for a gold badge and became Daley's Bitch. Keating was nothing but Daley's whore. Kirby was the she-pimp. Brian Thompson? You mean ghetto fabulous. All those involved should go straight to jail !!!!
To all you bitter finger pointing assholes.....fuck you. Bucky Beaver protects Daley and throws the cops and prosecutors under the bus and you believe what that scumbag has to say.
Amen!
Looks like some people just can't give it up and continue to blind themselves to the facts, they keep blaming the dead kid. And they blame the states attorney, although plenty of blame belongs there. The bottom line is the detectives did a poor job dand the evidence shows that. Yes, this is clout city and it is a fact when you refuse to go along with the corruption of the police command they can and will hurt you. Some people give in to that and some have courage and do not. I retired ten years ago as a lieutenant and have seen more then my share of cronyism, nepotism, poor leadership, unwarranted promotions and transfers. All of this contributed to the destruction of the moral and efficiency of the department. Daley ruined this department and his choices for superintendent, without exception, Also contributed to the downfall of the department. Every warch commander has had a call from their commander to release someone without charges. Some do it and some don't. Maybe this incident and the fact McCarthy is here things will change.
People forget one thing what about the Division/Rush St detail or the first car on the scene. If you are told this guy is unconscious and is being taken to the hospital because he was in a fight why not get video from the nearest bars. Why didn't O'Leary and Clemens try and pull video a few days later.
I'm not a Yawger family member, but I am correct, Yawger was assigned to the investigation, several weeks after the incident. The witnesses, lawyer end up, and refused to answer questions. Yawner conducted a line-up, where Kochman's friends did not identify Vanecko. Yawner asked for charges against Vanecko, but the charges were refused by the State's Attorney's office. What did Yawger do wrong?
to any and all of you who are blaming the state attorney office, the mayor, the mother for wanting justice for her son... Your all delusional ... It IS the police department who designed this cover up and the bosses who orchestrated this to the minions...what is there not to understand?? I am a supervisor and even if I gave you a direct order to change a report or omit something it is up to YOU as a detective or an officer to decide weather or not that is a lawful order and to follow it.... To the best of my knowledge falsifying reports or destroying documents is not lawful and you have every right to disobey those orders!! So now all of you who blame the state attorney or the mayor...how the fuck are they to blame when the reports were submitted by the Chicago police department and investigated by Chicago police detectives who designed this entire case?? Everyone involved in this case should lose their jobs and go to prison..fuck em they covered up a homicide and in doing so make us all look like shit.........
Did you read Webb's report? Doesn't look like it by this rant. Webb was gunning for the police and no one else - surprise, surprise. And still he found no evidence to charge. But nice how he exonerates Daley. BS!
To those of you who responded to my post stating that Vanecko and Koschman were two willing participants who were in a bar fight that carried out into the street, does that allow me or you to beat someone or should we have just walked away? If I punch you and you fall and hit your head on the pavement like we had an officer in another state do...and you die as a result of your injuries what do we call this then? You say it's not a homicide? Ok, it's manslaughter right? Or is it just manslaughter if your name is Vanecko? Secondly no matter what happened how can you justify what happened and say I should "go hide in the station loser" I have always been a working police officer my entire career of over 20 years and have worked in mostly west and south side districts, have been involved in several police shootings but never once concealed a homicide...oh wait you said this case is nit a homicide sorry....just two drunks in a mutual fight. You guys can all cry foul all you want about the states attorney office on how they didn't charge etc... Bottom line here is the police department conducts the investigation and if you are a detective with any fucking balls between your legs you would conduct an honest, impartial investigation and submit it as such..when you are told to change your reports you then REFUSE!! And if you do not refuse an UNLAWFUL order to change the reports to favor Vanecko then you call IAD and save copies of YOUR reports... You are a man, an adult, a police officer conducting a homicide investigation, YOU speak for the deceased, YOU are the one who is supposed to bring him justice, instead you cleared down to political hacks and their pressure for what? For nothing. YOU as a detective failed to do your job and honor YOUR oath as a police officer, YOU failed the people YOU are to have served, YOU failed YOURSELF and failed us as a police department. Thank you very much.
It should be interesting, after the timeline of the investigation notes young Koschman's death, how anything done by the police or prosecutor's office after his death could be be considered a violation of his civil rights. 4th Amendment guarantees do not extend past one's death.
--I'm not a Yawger family member--
Mmmhmm, worried a bit?
--but I am correct, Yawger was assigned to the investigation, several weeks after the incident--
Huh?
--The witnesses, lawyer end up, and refused to answer questions.--
All of em? Pull video? Maybe wonder how everybody else knew it was Vanecko except you supposedly? Except where you wrote it in the margin and then scratched it out. Your story is already fucked, so no matter what you say you are impeached.
--Yawner conducted a line-up, where Kochman's friends did not identify Vanecko.--
A month later, and with the EXACT contraindications of what the witnesses told you. Oh yeah, not all the witnesses lawyered up like you said above, how about that?
--Yawner asked for charges against Vanecko, but the charges were refused by the State's Attorney's office.--
Yawger also testified to the grand jury about that. Guess what he said he was doing when he put the charges to O'Brien. Guess what he said. Guess, can you say it? He said he didn't do the right thing, didn't have any interest in pursuing the investigation, and had every interest in leaving the decision to someone else to half-ass.
-- What did Yawger do wrong?--
Oh, and read the Suntimes article about what Mrs. Koschman says he told her. On top of the fucked up "investigation" that wasn't really an investigation, on top of his own admitted half-assed attempt to pass the buck to O'brien and the CCSA, on top of the delayed and rigged line-up, what else COULD he have done wrong aside from killing Mrs. Koschman?
There'd better be firings, indictments, and prison time for this, and Punative Damages assessed to all involved. The over-Taxed Middle-Class Taxpayers shouldn't have to again pay for this Corruption Bullshit out of their own pockets. Let the Daley Crime Family pay for it.
2 things: When/where/how often did Daley speak w/ his nephew? You know he eventually did; Would the city settle for re-naming Maggie Daley park after Koschman? Watch King Richard stroke out at that offer.
Best of luck we support you
NOW we have to get the right answer to:
"Did YOU order the Code Red?"
Actually, "Did you order the cover-up?"
As someone mentioned earlier, they were very proud to read some of the comments here about those who still had integrity on the CPD. So am I.
I am glad the Few Good Men analogy rang true with some of you.
Others of you, take a week off. Get out of Chicago and its political stench. Go somewhere and reflect on your life. Think about what you took an oath for and if you still are upholding that oath.
Instead of protecting those who you think are going to "throw you a bone" if you look the other way on their clouted activities, clean house.
This case could get rid of a lot of bad cops.
Next case.
Doesn't her son bear some responsibility in what happened?
Up until a few weeks ago he boar ALL the responsibility dipshit. Koschman "may" have deserved a punch to the face, but his family "absolutely"deserved a truthful investigation into who killed him. These officers aren't in trouble because of what koschman or vaneko did. They're in trouble because of what they did. Don't confuse the two.
After the original Dets were assigned and could not interview the victim the case sat on the desk. Not uncommon, but not the Dets fault. . Then the victim died and the case was reassigned. The Dets brought in the witnesses and the suspect. The suspect had a lawyer and refused to make a statement, his legal right. Then they did a line up and no one was identified. The case was presented to felony review and charges were denied. No statemt,no identification. Happens every day in the Detective Division.
A second investigation is ordered and again the suspect refuses to make a statement and there is no one able to identify the suspect. No charges.
Then Webb is assigned as special prosecutor. He has a team of investigators with unlimited time and budget and what does he come up with? No identification and no statement from the suspect. However he does not have to go through felony review and he alone files charges on the suspect. How I would love to approve my own charges on some of the cases I worked my ass off only to get a case rejected from felony review because the States Attorney's office might actually have to go to trial and prove a case. Question why didn't Webb charge any of the offender's friends who were with him the night of the incident?
Then you have the trial. Defendant takes a plea why? Because he didn't want to see his friends who were with him that night and have been lying from day one take the stand. Ever hear of perjury?
Now Webb discusses a missing CPD file which there is no reason for. Then there is also a missing States Attorney's file which went missing as well, again no excuse. But Dets are not responsible for either of these files.
But how about the fact that high ranking CPD officials with ties to Daley had information regarding the involvement of Daley's nephew and no one typed an information report. No one contacted the assigned Detectives advising them as such. Where are their emails, phone records and grand jury statements. Webb didn't want to go there, he just went after the assigned Detectives who did their job who the poor resources we are given and the told "charges not approved" by the States attorney's office. A no win situation for them.
Poor job by Webb and his team of investigators. Too many unanswered questions. But I suppose that's the point.
If the offender would have stayed on the scene and made a statement there would have never been charges filed. Self defense or mutual combatants take your pick.
Anonymous said...
Doesn't her son bear some responsibility in what happened?
Up until a few weeks ago he boar ALL the responsibility dipshit. Koschman "may" have deserved a punch to the face, but his family "absolutely"deserved a truthful investigation into who killed him. These officers aren't in trouble because of what koschman or vaneko did. They're in trouble because of what they did. Don't confuse the two.
3/26/2014 04:39:00 AM
"Up until a few weeks ago he boar ALL the responsibility dipshit."
Someone who dares display this piece of drivel in public has no business ever again calling anyone a "dipshit."
Anonymous Anonymous said...
2 things: When/where/how often did Daley speak w/ his nephew? You know he eventually did; Would the city settle for re-naming Maggie Daley park after Koschman? Watch King Richard stroke out at that offer.
3/25/2014 10:43:00 PM
How about this: Rename the Daley Center the Jane Byrne Center.
I hope this is the last thread on this topic
Anonymous said...
To the Lieutenant who posted on 3/24 @0927hrs, who the fuck are you to judged other coppers? just because you never were promoted on merit, gives you a right to blast others? You never walked a gray area, never bruised your soul in the course of police work? Well, No wonder you did well on exams, you were hiding behind some desk studying the whole time. You sir/maim are obviously a coward!
Whether mistakes were made by the involved, I would not wish ill on another copper. YOU are part of the problem-with leadership that you just displayed by your words and self back patting, no wonder young officers are afraid to work. YOU obviously would sell your own mother down the river.
Signed - a lowly Sgt.
Fuck you Merit Bitch!!! You can never teach me anything on leadership. 18 years on a tact team in 11 before I made Sgt. 8 years as a Tact Sgt on the South side before making Lt. Fuck all the names I mentioned and then some. Andrews, Keating, Kirby, Keating, Thompson (who was never the police let alone a commander) I hope Mrs K makes millions off the city. Andrews sold his soul for a gold badge and became Daley's Bitch. Keating was nothing but Daley's whore. Kirby was the she-pimp. Brian Thompson? You mean ghetto fabulous. All those involved should go straight to jail !!!!
3/25/2014 05:04:00 PM
Gee Lt. Hardass, did this strike a nerve? I bet you were the class commander in the academy too. Im surprised you didn't mentioned that-unless some hack took that away from you too. By the way most of us are not impressed with your westside/southside work history. I've been there too. I don't need to hear of your one bag rock pinches.
I did notice sir, that in your brilliant and most courageous police career, you didn't mention any stop in the detective division. Is it safe to assume you were not a detective? If this is so, then you have no idea what follow up investigations are about. Obviously you are one of those bosses who have a hard on for detectives because you notice how brass will always seek advise or aid of detective members before they ask you. Maybe you should really learn what detectives REALLY do before you open your mouth. Going to the library and reading Detective Work for Dummies is a good start.
And yes, I'd rather be a merit bitch than a coward as you still seem to be.
I'm just a lowly P. O. with 25 years on the job and I promise you, I am pro police but to say this case was mishandled is an understatement. If the States Attorney refuses to approve felony charges don't you still have two options? First charge with a misdemeanor or second request an override. Again I'm just a lowly P.O. but it seems to me if those involved would have done even just the minimum required, this could have all been avoided.
Due to the high profile nature of this case, you would have to be a fool not to cover all the bases. When you don't do that it leads to speculation and thoughts of collusion. I can only hope to let the chips fall where they may and that justice prevails.
I respect all of you who still stand for what is moral and just. It's so much easier to fall in line and be one of the good ole boys, to try to fit in but at the end of the day you have to be able to live with who you are and what you stand for.
It is pretty obvious by the posts for this topic over the past year or so that no matter what is said or done, people in this department will defend the entire Koschman investigation and the work of the detectives, supervisors and prosecutors involved. But, you all sound like media types that are still defending the innocence of Anthony Porter despite the evidence that came out in the criminal and civil trials. A civil case will reveal far more evidence then the special grand jury in this matter ( just look to the civil case of OJ Simpson). The truth is coming out, or the closet we can get to the truth and it not looking good for the Chicago Police Department. So, all of the deniers, dream on. Just hope that none of your family members has a bad run in with one of the clouted ones. You will be singing a different tune.This case is a black eye for the department and in the light of the wrongful conviction scandals in which good honest detective work was destroyed and good detectives blamed for torture which they did not commit. it makes believing the claims of the good detectives hard for the public to swallow.
Anonymous said...
All of you fellow police officers assuming there was a cover up and hope for the demise of these guys based on the Sun Times are a disgrace. They're getting thrown under the bus and you all cheer. I'd never want to work with any of you.
Think it can never happen to you? Think again and imagine fellow officers who don't know you making judgements about you. Very sad that you people are the police.
3/24/2014 05:53:00 PM
You are in denial and I don't mean a river in Egypt!!
"If the States Attorney refuses to approve felony charges don't you still have two options? First charge with a misdemeanor or second request an override. Again I'm just a lowly P.O. but it seems to me if those involved would have done even just the minimum required, this could have all been avoided. "
______
This is absolutely wrong. First, you can't override the ASA on ANY homicide charge. Second, if you put reduced charges on the offender (say Agg Batt)once the victim is already dead and the offender pleads or is otherwise convicted, he can never again be charged with any type of homicide. Double Jeopardy.
"Fuck you Merit Bitch!!! You can never teach me anything on leadership. 18 years on a tact team in 11 before I made Sgt. 8 years as a Tact Sgt on the South side before making Lt. Fuck all the names I mentioned and then some. Andrews, Keating, Kirby, Keating, Thompson (who was never the police let alone a commander) I hope Mrs K makes millions off the city. Andrews sold his soul for a gold badge and became Daley's Bitch. Keating was nothing but Daley's whore. Kirby was the she-pimp. Brian Thompson? You mean ghetto fabulous. All those involved should go straight to jail !!!!"
agreed.....there is no excuse for incompetence, lack of integrity, and political corruption (although expertly practiced by local politicians)....
"Whether mistakes were made by the involved, I would not wish ill on another copper. YOU are part of the problem-with leadership that you just displayed by your words and self back patting, no wonder young officers are afraid to work. YOU obviously would sell your own mother down the river."
Signed - a lowly Sgt.
another very interesting comment, one that can generate other opinions.....anyway, and perhaps contrary to the popular feelings, there are those in law enforcement who would in fact arrest another family member (mother, son, daughter, etc.), if the situation called for it, based on the oath of office, the obligation to serve the ideals of the profession....hard to believe?....
Anonymous said...
I'm just a lowly P. O. with 25 years on the job and I promise you, I am pro police but to say this case was mishandled is an understatement. If the States Attorney refuses to approve felony charges don't you still have two options? First charge with a misdemeanor or second request an override. Again I'm just a lowly P.O. but it seems to me if those involved would have done even just the minimum required, this could have all been avoided.
3/26/2014 12:52:00 PM
Dear Lowly P.O. filled with condescending irony,
There is no override for murder, nor is there a misdemeanor murder charge.
Regards,
Exalted Detective, filled with 20 years of investigative arrogance
Anonymous said...
To the Lieutenant who posted on 3/24 @0927hrs, who the fuck are you to judged other coppers? just because you never were promoted on merit, gives you a right to blast others? You never walked a gray area, never bruised your soul in the course of police work? Well, No wonder you did well on exams, you were hiding behind some desk studying the whole time. You sir/maim are obviously a coward!
Whether mistakes were made by the involved, I would not wish ill on another copper. YOU are part of the problem-with leadership that you just displayed by your words and self back patting, no wonder young officers are afraid to work. YOU obviously would sell your own mother down the river.
Signed - a lowly Sgt.
Fuck you Merit Bitch!!! You can never teach me anything on leadership. 18 years on a tact team in 11 before I made Sgt. 8 years as a Tact Sgt on the South side before making Lt. Fuck all the names I mentioned and then some. Andrews, Keating, Kirby, Keating, Thompson (who was never the police let alone a commander) I hope Mrs K makes millions off the city. Andrews sold his soul for a gold badge and became Daley's Bitch. Keating was nothing but Daley's whore. Kirby was the she-pimp. Brian Thompson? You mean ghetto fabulous. All those involved should go straight to jail !!!!
3/25/2014 05:04:00 PM
Gee Lt. Hardass, did this strike a nerve? I bet you were the class commander in the academy too. Im surprised you didn't mentioned that-unless some hack took that away from you too. By the way most of us are not impressed with your westside/southside work history. I've been there too. I don't need to hear of your one bag rock pinches.
I did notice sir, that in your brilliant and most courageous police career, you didn't mention any stop in the detective division. Is it safe to assume you were not a detective? If this is so, then you have no idea what follow up investigations are about. Obviously you are one of those bosses who have a hard on for detectives because you notice how brass will always seek advise or aid of detective members before they ask you. Maybe you should really learn what detectives REALLY do before you open your mouth. Going to the library and reading Detective Work for Dummies is a good start.
And yes, I'd rather be a merit bitch than a coward as you still seem to be.
3/26/2014 10:38:00 AM
No I think I struck a nerve. I bet you are one of Daley's bitches. That's why you're so defensive on the Detectives Division. I have the highest regard for our Detectives. I have zero regard for Daley's whores. Now tell us how does it taste? Scumbag. Anyone can tell by your writing that you are one of the traitors who sold out his or her star for a good one. Just like Judas. Well traitor I cannot wait for all of you dirty Daley lap dogs to be exposed. Mrs K make them pay.
I'm just a lowly P. O. with 25 years on the job and I promise you, I am pro police but to say this case was mishandled is an understatement. If the States Attorney refuses to approve felony charges don't you still have two options? First charge with a misdemeanor or second request an override. Again I'm just a lowly P.O. but it seems to me if those involved would have done even just the minimum required, this could have all been avoided.
Due to the high profile nature of this case, you would have to be a fool not to cover all the bases. When you don't do that it leads to speculation and thoughts of collusion. I can only hope to let the chips fall where they may and that justice prevails.
I respect all of you who still stand for what is moral and just. It's so much easier to fall in line and be one of the good ole boys, to try to fit in but at the end of the day you have to be able to live with who you are and what you stand for.
Charge a murder with a misdemeanor? No problem there especially when it gets tossed in court. No override for homicide.
I love the coppers and Sgt's who never conducted a real investigation. Or at least one that took more then 30 mins on the street.
Witnesses are not entitled to "lawyer up" they are entitled to consult with thier attorney but refusal to cooperate can easily be called obstruction to justice. Someone may want to forward that to Mr Webb.
Regardless of losing or settling civil law suits, federal indictments against the dics and supervisors, and criminal convictions to follow, nothing will change in the Department. This is Chicago. This stems from decades of cronyism, nepotism, clout promotions, lack of training, lack of supervision, and a general "we can do what we want" attitude.
Every detective I have ever met, with the exception of a few have always been know it all jagoffs who talk down to other officers and belittle them like their shit don't stink. They are arrogant cocksuckers and will laugh in your face, look who is laughing now fuckheads.
Dear Lowly P.O. filled with condescending irony,
There is no override for murder, nor is there a misdemeanor murder charge.
Regards,
Exalted Detective, filled with 20 years of investigative arrogance
Never said anything about a murder charge, don't think this case warranted that, but not even a battery charge? Do you just throw your hands in the air? Yes, a lesser charge may get thrown out but that is for a court to decide or do you CYA. My point was , were there no other options for charging? I await your exalted investigative expertise
...and ain't that a perfect blog post from someone who no longer even eats like they should...wasn't easy. We get shattered sometimes. Way it is.
God bless all here. Stay safe. Check six. Hold family together -- it is ultimately all you have.
3/24/2014 07:19:00 AM
I hope you are ok. Talk to someone. I feel your pain. Hang in there even though it's tough.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bullshit! She made her decision after reading Webb's report? Her scum lawyers were knocking down her door from the get-go. Don't get me wrong, I feel for her losing her son. But she and her team of legal "experts" are just going for the deep pockets of chicago taxpayers. Sue fucking Daley and Vaneckos, they started this shit.
3/24/2014 09:03:00 AM
Maybe she's not suing for the money. Best thing she could do is sue for $1 to prove she's after the truth, not money.
What all you blathering idiots fail to take into account is that Koschman had been smoking pot and drinking for HOURS before the incident, and WAS the initial aggressor. Vanecko's entourage was similarly high/inebriated. Shit witnesses on both sides.
The case was shit from the get-go and was going nowhere. If everyone had just let the case run its natural course, there would have been no need for a cover-up.
Get your heads out of your asses. Charges are denied in these types of cases all the time.
Gee Lt. Hardass, did this strike a nerve? I bet you were the class commander in the academy too. Im surprised you didn't mentioned that-unless some hack took that away from you too. By the way most of us are not impressed with your westside/southside work history. I've been there too. I don't need to hear of your one bag rock pinches.
I did notice sir, that in your brilliant and most courageous police career, you didn't mention any stop in the detective division. Is it safe to assume you were not a detective? If this is so, then you have no idea what follow up investigations are about. Obviously you are one of those bosses who have a hard on for detectives because you notice how brass will always seek advise or aid of detective members before they ask you. Maybe you should really learn what detectives REALLY do before you open your mouth. Going to the library and reading Detective Work for Dummies is a good start.
And yes, I'd rather be a merit bitch than a coward as you still seem to be.
3/26/2014 10:38:00 AM
No I think I struck a nerve. I bet you are one of Daley's bitches. That's why you're so defensive on the Detectives Division. I have the highest regard for our Detectives. I have zero regard for Daley's whores. Now tell us how does it taste? Scumbag. Anyone can tell by your writing that you are one of the traitors who sold out his or her star for a good one. Just like Judas. Well traitor I cannot wait for all of you dirty Daley lap dogs to be exposed. Mrs K make them pay.
3/26/2014 08:58:00 PM
Nothing you can say strikes a nerve. I don't listen to assholes. They words you printed in your first rant, leads me to believe you're a snitch. How many times you've been to the Dearborn Building? Whose the real Judas? The only difference is you didn't throw away the 30 pieces of silver, you melted them down as Lt bars and wear them on your shoulder.
Regardless of this bantering back and forth, regardless of what you stand for, I would NEVER wish ill will against you. I would never hope and blog about another copper that they get sued , imprisoned or shamed. So don't preach about your perfect soul and that you would never find yourself in any predictament. But for the grace of GOD go I.
Has anyone else read the complaint filed in this case? It is easily downloaded from the Sun-Times site. Who wrote this thing? It seemed amateurish and riddled with errors to me. My brother, an attorney, looked at it and laughed out loud. He said a first year law student would flunk the Legal Writing course if they submitted such a paper. Further, if the complaint was based on Webb’s report as they said, there are outrageous and inflammatory claims made with no evidence (again, according to Webb’s report) to support them. If those attorneys had such evidence why did they not furnish it to Webb? It seems the only purpose is to get the ball rolling on a settlement.
My point was , were there no other options for charging? I await your exalted investigative expertise
3/27/2014 02:35:00 AM
I, for one, will not be condescending. No, there are no other options. There is no over-ride on ANY type of homicide charges, including involuntary. Any other charge would preclude the suspect from ever being charged with the death if more evidence was forthcoming. For example, if Vanecko was charged with simple or agg battery back in 2004 and that case was adjudicated he could never have been charged this past year with involuntary homicide...double jeopardy.
Every detective I have ever met, with the exception of a few have always been know it all jagoffs who talk down to other officers and belittle them like their shit don't stink. They are arrogant cocksuckers and will laugh in your face, look who is laughing now fuckheads.
3/27/2014 01:52:00 AM
Now there's a good reason to wish ill on people you have no evidence to believe broke the law. No wonder the dicks treated you like sh@t.
To the Lieutenant who posted on 3/24 @0927hrs, who the fuck are you to judged other coppers? just because you never were promoted on merit, gives you a right to blast others? You never walked a gray area, never bruised your soul in the course of police work? Well, No wonder you did well on exams, you were hiding behind some desk studying the whole time. You sir/maim are obviously a coward!
Whether mistakes were made by the involved, I would not wish ill on another copper. YOU are part of the problem-with leadership that you just displayed by your words and self back patting, no wonder young officers are afraid to work. YOU obviously would sell your own mother down the river.
Signed - a lowly Sgt.
Fuck you Merit Bitch!!! You can never teach me anything on leadership. 18 years on a tact team in 11 before I made Sgt. 8 years as a Tact Sgt on the South side before making Lt. Fuck all the names I mentioned and then some. Andrews, Keating, Kirby, Keating, Thompson (who was never the police let alone a commander) I hope Mrs K makes millions off the city. Andrews sold his soul for a gold badge and became Daley's Bitch. Keating was nothing but Daley's whore. Kirby was the she-pimp. Brian Thompson? You mean ghetto fabulous. All those involved should go straight to jail !!!!
I bet you told all those bosses that to their faces and how you felt about them when you were working. and not wait until now to post it on the blog.
I love the coppers and Sgt's who never conducted a real investigation. Or at least one that took more then 30 mins on the street.
Witnesses are not entitled to "lawyer up" they are entitled to consult with thier attorney but refusal to cooperate can easily be called obstruction to justice. Someone may want to forward that to Mr Webb.
3/26/2014 09:46:00 PM
But that is exactly the problem. The dept and supt cline admitted they never charge anyone with obstruction of justice, because everyone lies to the police.
To all you Rangers out there real cases aren't about CB numbers. We don't lose our spot on the team if we don't bring in heads.
If you arrest someone for a murder you don't charge a fricken battery. I always love the sergeants and watch commanders who insist that the arestee needs to be charged with "something." If felony review doesn't approve charges it's RWOC. How does it make sense that if its not a robbery it's a theft? I'd like a defense lawyer to ask that in misdemeanor court. What's your excuse for charging a theft when you couldn't prove the robbery. "I needed the CB number." Talk about whoring yourselves out for the city. You brought them in for an investigation it was not charged they were released. Now go find some video or some witnesses and re-arrest him. Or the Detectives do that and "we stole the arrest" it's called an investigation. But we're all assholes and don't know what we're talking about.
You just did the offender the biggest favor you could by charging him with a misdemeanor. He can never be properly charged once the theft is anudicated.
Also charges on murders usually are C/I 'd for more evidence not rejected. There is no statute of limitations.
Fuck you Merit Bitch!!! You can never teach me anything on leadership. 18 years on a tact team in 11 before I made Sgt. 8 years as a Tact Sgt on the South side before making Lt. Fuck all the names I mentioned and then some. Andrews, Keating, Kirby, Keating, Thompson (who was never the police let alone a commander) I hope Mrs K makes millions off the city. Andrews sold his soul for a gold badge and became Daley's Bitch. Keating was nothing but Daley's whore. Kirby was the she-pimp. Brian Thompson? You mean ghetto fabulous. All those involved should go straight to jail !!!!
I did something better. You will soon see.
Every detective I have ever met, with the exception of a few have always been know it all jagoffs who talk down to other officers and belittle them like their shit don't stink" arrogant cocksuckers and will laugh in your face, look who is laughing now fuckheads.
3/27/2014 01:52:00 AM
Perhaps your face encourages laughter.
She is going to win like she should. The police department deliberately botched this case because of who was involved. It is not only morally wrong but officers shouldn't cover up the wrongs of connected people. We swore to be impartial and honest. Do the right thing! Now all of those involved are going to suffer in federal court. Those officers can only blame themselves and be shamed on making the rest of us honest officers look bad. Way to go morons!!!
To whom said rent Maggs Park for 99 years to pay Koscman. I think if they re open it to what it use to be which was a nice little airport where Amado Carillo and other Cartels use to land before someone decided to crush the landing strip at 2AM in the effen dark night cause cartels refuse to pay more money to land you will have mucho dinero. Why did they just past the bill last week to reopen another little airport in chicago???? Hum
I find it very difficult to listen to advice from members of a unit with a clearance rate below 30 %..... This is what happens when you take house mouse coppers and do nothings and merit appointees and make them detectives...... A clearance rate under 30%? Bravo, bravo, well done........
Has anyone else read the complaint filed in this case? It is easily downloaded from the Sun-Times site
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Sun-Times. Great journalism. Always factual. Reports only and all thats pure truth...
ARE YOU DELUSIONAL?
The dicks would have hung Vanecko's nephew by his heels if given the opportunity, an opportunity of recourse for all that his relative has done to the City, to the job and for himself.
Ronnie, you did right. Keep your factual account of this tragedy straight and don't bow to the back-stabbers posts.
And to you nay-sayers...keep wishing Mrs K. the "millions' etc. Her scum-bag lawyers want to hear that. I wasn't on scene (were you?) yet it seems her 'beer-muscled' son got punched, right-or-wrong and his head impacted at just the right place on the curbs edge that caused catastrophic damage. A tragedy, no doubt about it.
But a cover-up...I don't buy that for a single second. Ironic if the money comes from the Pension fund.
Anonymous said...
I find it very difficult to listen to advice from members of a unit with a clearance rate below 30 %..... This is what happens when you take house mouse coppers and do nothings and merit appointees and make them detectives...... A clearance rate under 30%? Bravo, bravo, well done........
3/28/2014 10:55:00 AM
The real reason for making merit appointees was to be able to take a hard working, knoweldgable people that might not be able to do well on tests and give them an opportunity to be a detective. Too many do nothing inside people who had time to study but no street experience were doing well on the test and were being promoted.
Guess it didn't work out that way.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
To whom said rent Maggs Park for 99 years to pay Koscman. I think if they re open it to what it use to be which was a nice little airport where Amado Carillo and other Cartels use to land before someone decided to crush the landing strip at 2AM in the effen dark night cause cartels refuse to pay more money to land you will have mucho dinero. Why did they just past the bill last week to reopen another little airport in chicago???? Hum
3/28/2014 10:09:00 AM
The former Meigs Field is not Maggie Daley Park.
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