Even More Contract Info
- Rank-and-file Chicago police officers won’t see retroactive raises apply to overtime during the first year of a new proposed contract with the city, a taxpayer savings made possible by the failure of the Fraternal Order of Police to formally open negotiations in a timely manner, sources said.
The city also would save money by pushing back the date new officers can start collecting supplemental “duty availability” pay now worth $3,420 a year under the contract proposal. Instead of getting quarterly payments after 12 months on the force, officers hired next year would get them after 42 months, the sources said.
- *Officers between age 55 and 59 who retire on or after June 1, 2017 will have to pay 2 percent of their pension checks for health care. That currently is provided free. Officers 60 or older will still get free health care.
*Quarterly payments for duty availability will gradually increase during the five years of the contract, from $805 on Jan. 1, 2012, to $900 on Jan. 1, 2017.
*Officers will move to greater amounts of time off one year faster than they now do. For example, an officer will move from 20 days off to 24 days off after four years of service, instead of five.
*A new provision would require that requested time off for officers “not be unreasonably denied.” Officers now frequently complain that they are not allowed to take time coming that helps them recharge and spend time with their families.
*As part of the talks, the city agreed to buy 400 new police vehicles by Dec. 31 and intends to buy, on average, 200 new vehicles per year from 2015 until the end of the agreement. Officers have complained about shortages of workable or safe squad cars and how many vehicles are in need of repairs.
*Only 50 to 75 percent of graduate school costs will be reimbursed after Sept. 1, 2016, compared to 75 to 100 percent today. But scholarship funds in many cases will not be deducted from those payments, as they are now.
*If the state requires police to contribute more to their pension funds, the contract can be renegotiated on the issue of pay hikes and duty availability pay.
We also have an unconfirmed e-mail that claims "furlough by watch" is making a comeback. Certainly a lot to discuss over the next few weeks before a vote is taken. We will be moderating the comments rather closely. If you have a legit beef with something, by all means, post it. Personal attacks over what was negotiated or motherfucking everyone over a point of view will be deleted. Same thing with obvious planted comments to provoke those sorts of responses. We don't routinely delete stupid posts - everyone needs to see the dumb shit people say/think/type sometimes - but legit concerns should be brought to the general meeting in two weeks or so after hashing it out here.
Labels: contract stuff
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
354 Comments:
So, we're losing a portion of tuition reimbursement, 2% for health care (which will increase with every contract now that the city got their foot in the door), some sort of half baked promise to give us our time due (which they won't keep), they promise to buy cars (since when is that a contractual issue?), new guys lose duty availability, and no retro on OT for year one. What are the strongpoints of this deal; the $95 increase in duty availability and 11% raise that can't keep up with inflation? Don't love it.
Don't worry you will still get so many greedy complainers here. 11 percent raise, no increase in medical coverage and the 55 and out stays. Retro for 2 years, one of which to will be included and nothing given up. Where do I sign. We gained furlough picks by watch also which is big. I'm satisfied, where do I sign.
It seems quite apparent to me that our elected union officials decided give up quite a bit, but what exactly did we get in return? A below average raise compared to inflation and a promise from the city to buy new cars and give use time due. Those last two are things that the city was supposed to be doing without being negotiated. Did our union really negotiate for the city to buy us new cars that are required to perform the job? I can't wait for the next contract when these idiots negotiate with the city to install new computers so we can process arrests. SMH...
Is city government our friend?
The Tution issue and the Duty Availibilty issue are the two reasons i can not vote for this contract.
My Uncle told me they asked for one dollar for medical in the 80s and now look at how much we pay.
without those two issues i would could support it but with those issues i can't.
I would lose about 2300 with no retro at all for the 1st year.
I still say no because of the tuition issue and the duty availibilty issue.
I am a Detective with close to 15 years.
What about the rogue cell phone tower discovered in Chicago?
Why does the FOP agree to give up so much in order for an 11% raise. They are supposed to ask for more stuff so that at arbitration, the arbitrator can give a little each way. It seems that the only thing we can only lose even if we go to arbitration. WTF???
The duty availability not available till almost 4 years on is horse shit. The no time due unreasonably denied will be touted as a win but it's BS. Who is the judge of what is reasonable or not? Are we expected to file a grievance and have it go to arbitration for every day every officer was denied? Ridiculous. The real loss is the 2% for health. The door is open and will never be closed again, only opened wider. The cars thing was a surprise. I dunno. Coulda been worse I guess.
That "wellness" bullshit is a really slippery slope and we did well to avoid it.
Once your behavior, smoking, drinking, rock climbing, motorcycle riding, etc. .. becomes a burden to the collective "insurance companies"you must quit or be assessed a fine.
Fuck that !
*If the state requires police to contribute more to their pension funds, the contract can be renegotiated on the issue of pay hikes and duty availability pay.
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So when this happens all bets are off. Until then the money to pay for everything will come from skipped pension payments is how I read it.
All and election gimmick to conjure up feelings of what a nice guy the mayor is.
Good luck.
I was at the unit rep meeting today. Arbitration is not a viable option. Because the previous administration failed to send the letter in an arbitrator would not and could not give us anything for 2012-2013 that year would be lost. No raise no retro. I'm mad I lost retro on overtime for that year but at least I get a 4% raise and some retro. I'm not going to cut my nose off to spit my face.
Sounds too good to be true. Probably some backdoor handshakes and a few winks for our FOP leaders.
Don't believe it can possibly be good for the membership.
I'm voting no.
Furloughs by watch are a good idea. It makes no sense administratively to do otherwise.
If they are going to reduce the money for education, are they also then going to do away with the academic requirements for promotions?
don't do the 2% for health insurance for retirees!
I recall when we didn't have to pay anything for health insurance for active PO's, and then the city requested just a tiny contribution. Look how that increased over the years!
Why are WE asking for anything to do with police vehicles? That's the city's problem. If they can't provide them, we can't work. So be it. Not our problem!
If the union want's to ask for something concerning vehicles, they should be asking for the city to scrap those damn mini-vans, and go back to full sized wagons. Too many officers are getting injured trying to get resisting offenders into those vans!
I'll believe furlo by watch when I see it. All the coppers with 20+years on the job, working days will have a fit. 20 years on the job and you get a 3B and a 11B furlo?
Its better than our last contract. If Shields didn't drop the ball, it would be even better with the extra retro money. But I like it………now lets vote for it, let the city council pass this thing, and get me that retro check. Give dis maaaaaaan his moooooooney!! Im gonna cash my retro check at a currency exchange and go straight to the Horseshoe with my $4,000 and blow through $3,996 on the slot machines in the high-roller room………just because. (I'll need that 4 remaining dollars for the toll on the skyway to get back home). Who's comin' with me ??????
If your 50 years of age and retire does the health care cost 2 percent of your check or is it more?
Does this mean we won't get retro for the first year's overtime but do get retro for the rest of the overtime?
*Only 50 to 75 percent of graduate school costs will be reimbursed after Sept. 1, 2016, compared to 75 to 100 percent today. But scholarship funds in many cases will not be deducted from those payments, as they are now.
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What ? ? ?
Need more clarification on this ?
The city also would save money by pushing back the date NEW officers can start collecting supplemental “duty availability” pay . . .
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ABOUT 8 YEARS AGO :
Greg BELLA wrote in an FOP newsletter that this was a strategy that cities were going to use; screw the new employee or new officer that has been promoted.
I do not like it.
In 30 years, future officers will have less rights than we do.
Still sounds like a good contract. We wi still get retro on the second year of overtime for the contrast. I will be voting yes. Will furlough by watch include the management people on that watch?
I plan on voting "NO" once my ballot arrives.
Concerning wages, the teachers did better than us. I believe the Park District did better than us, as did Streets & San. And if I recall correctly, our labor attorney Joel Burns got CTA a similar/better contract than this just before/while he was working with FOP on this contract.
I'm not here to say the other unions didn't deserve what they got, but there is no fucking way that first responders in this city should get less than what a garbage man or tree trimmer got.
Isn't crime (according to the shit Rahm and McCarthy spew monthly) at historically low rates? If that's the truth, shouldn't we be fairly compensated for going above and beyond?
And I don't wanna hear from the usual gaggle of assholes telling us we should be happy that we're getting anything and not taking pay cuts. This city is far from broke as evidenced by the hundreds of millions of dollars that they pour into unnecessary pet projects in order to line the packets of connected contractors and to pander to specific demographics who represent their voting bloc.
Then there's the stark reality of increased water bills, city stickers, cell phone surcharges and various other 'City of Chicago Hostage Taxes' that we're forced to absorb by default as a condition of our employment.
All I'll say is that everybody should thoroughly read what's been tentatively agreed to and make an educated decision. You can't be so shortsighted to just put the blinders on once that retro check is dangled over your head. What's particularly disturbing is that they mentioned the "reopening" of the contract pertaining to wages if/when pension payments/funding becomes an issue... Which it certainly will if Bruce Rauner is elected. Tiny Dancer has grandiose plans to destroy what's left of our pension.
How about hiring officers based on retirement. ....Whatever.....
Why would you even put in a contract buying vehicles? Not a negotiating point! Giving up duty avaibility for new recruits till four plus years on job, that's a loss! Paying for retiree health care that's a loss! A raise for duty availability $95 bucks over five years big deal! Time due not a negotiating point! Plus city as usual will not follow thru with it. No raise for ot first year that's a loss! 11 percent raise five years loss again! What were the mayor and alderman's raises last time they gave themselves one! Wow did we pay for a labor attorney for this!
As much as I hate giving anything up the tuition reimbursement is a good give back. If you want to go to law school it's for YOUR own betterment, you should contribute a bigger portion. For any other mickey mouse classes that people take, you may want to reconsider wasting your time and money.
So a twenty year veteran on second watch will get a worse furlough than a ten year veteran on third or first watch. That is bullshit. Seniority is the only thing in this department that is somewhat legit and now they want to screw with that. I will not vote for this contract.
The chumps that don't realize that they'll be giving up more than theyll be getting is what Rahm is hoping for. He knows coppers are by far dumb and financially irresponsible, and I agree. I can't believe how short sided these newer guys are. All they see is a retro check for a few Gs. Never you mind tuition reimbursement getting pared down, medial going up, raises not even close to cost of living increases, etc etc. We've waited this long not knowing what we might get, what's a little while longer?
VOTE NO AND LET THE CHIPS FALL WHERE THEY MAY IN ARBITRATION. 11% IS A SLAP IN THE FACE FOR FIRE & POLICE
I'd rather take no retro than start paying the 2% which will be 8% by the next contract. Fuck them
The pension provision allowing FOP to reopen talks if "contributions increase" is a slick move.
By omission, it prevents reopening the contract for ANY othen pension modification. For example: a reduction in benefits; an increase in retirement age; changes to how many years of service are used to calculate the yearly annuity.
A better set of language would have allowed FOP to reopen the contract for ANY change to the pension.
No re election for Rham
WHY would you take the 2 or 3 thousand now in retro only to pay same amount yearly for 5 years when you retire, and that's if there is no an increase from 2%??? Not to mention screw every new PO out that same amount for 4 years, (duty availability uniform) money that you may have received as a new PO? These our benefits that we have a right to, that we are selling off for a quick dollar. To make this simple, they are offering 2 dollars now, so you can pay 10 dollars tomorrow. This is a bad deal, vote no, they can keep the retro.
Don't do the 2% for retire health care, its going to go up. Or at least if it's going to be done start with the contract after this one not the last month of this contract (if approved)
Anonymous said...
Its better than our last contract. If Shields didn't drop the ball, it would be even better with the extra retro money. But I like it………now lets vote for it, let the city council pass this thing, and get me that retro check. Give dis maaaaaaan his moooooooney!! Im gonna cash my retro check at a currency exchange and go straight to the Horseshoe with my $4,000 and blow through $3,996 on the slot machines in the high-roller room………just because. (I'll need that 4 remaining dollars for the toll on the skyway to get back home). Who's comin' with me ??????
9/06/2014 02:05:00 AM
Where you at Bro..Lets go.
Mike Shields was the one who messed up by not sending the letter. I think this team did the best they could to overcome the damage the last team created. I'm not one that only looks at retro, but I'm voting yes on this contract. If you vote no, an arbitrator will not give us that year back and that's huge for our future for pension. I believe it's a fair contract.
Now - If you retire age 50-54, you will pay an awful lot each month for health insurance - guessing $700-$1000. If you retire age 55-59, free health insurance.
After June 1,2017 - if you retire age 50-54, you will most likely pay a lot more than now each month for health insurance. If you retire age 55-59, you will pay 2 percent of your pension for health insurance. Let's just say you bring home $5000 per month, you will pay $100 per month.
"As part of the talks, the city agreed to buy 400 new police vehicles" , ooh, ooh, I'm in! I just love the smell of new vinyl . . . and can we get a new puppy and maybe a pony too . . . and I know, I know, a Buck Rogers ray gun with flashing lights and real sound. Uncle Rahm, I just love you! WTF!
pension payment guarantee in writing?
ts better than our last contract. If Shields didn't drop the ball, it would be even better with the extra retro money. But I like it………now lets vote for it, let the city council pass this thing, and get me that retro check. Give dis maaaaaaan his moooooooney!! Im gonna cash my retro check at a currency exchange and go straight to the Horseshoe with my $4,000 and blow through $3,996 on the slot machines in the high-roller room………just because. (I'll need that 4 remaining dollars for the toll on the skyway to get back home). Who's comin' with me ??????
_____________
Sorry to burst your bubble but it's $4000 MINUS TAXES, asshat
Reasonable, I Guess
Anonymous said...
I'll believe furlo by watch when I see it. All the coppers with 20+years on the job, working days will have a fit. 20 years on the job and you get a 3B and a 11B furlo?
9/06/2014 01:46:00 AM
Well then they need to get off of days if they can't handle getting crappy furloughs. Work another shift if the few weeks of vacation is the most important issue. I'm sure some coppers with no time on the job that get stuck working midnights would love to work days and still get the same crappy furlough.
If this goes to an arbitrator we will lose a lot more. When in recent contract history have we ever benifited by saying no? This is a done deal already.
11%. That's good because now they owe the sergeants an additional 2% because of the me too clause. Cha ching!
Don't trust Rahm.
Appears to be somewhat of a fair contract just not very keen on the 2% increase for retired health care. Also furlough picks need to come back to the watch this will eliminate taking officer from the 3rd watch the busiest watch to fill in on day furlough relief. This will help with extending time to an additional officer during the summer and also would help on very busy days. We are to alter nothing with pension contributions. If this team does that you better believe they will be one term and done, I'll make sure of that.
Not a bad contract, if we went to arbitration we would lose, you want the arbitrator To decide our fate? Like last time we lost big time! Why wasn't the pension payment put in the new proposal, instead of the new cars which is nonsense, if they is no vehicle to drive personally I'm good with it would take the Cta to calls that's the cities deal to provide us cars not a contract issue at all! The 2% for retiree health care not a bad deal even better I'm retiring next year so looking at the money proposal coppers that retire with 55 and out with me get an automatic immediate 6% raise in pension plus not paying the 2% for health care gets another 2% total readies would = 8% raise!
My vote is yes send the ballots!
Since when was the fleet a contract problem?
Reduction in tuition reimbursement ? Where will Calumet college get people to pay for their HS diploma to PHD in Criminal Justice in 4 weeks program ?
Vote no shit deal. We giving up to much just to get the first year retro. Fuck the retro on the first year.
We want:
5% per year raise
Tuition stays as is
City's problem on the car issue, give me a horse to ride if need be. (No cars, no police service ).
No increase in retirement health care cost.
No delay in any kind if pay
Time due issue is pure bill shit, they will always deny.
And absolutely NO to any deal on pension adjustment. That's a huge ass fucking down the road.
Who negotiated this contract? Fucking crack heads. And can we remove them from office now. Someone is getting a deal on the side.
Scrap the whole thing and start over. Start with 5% per year and keep everything else as is.
Looks like we sent boys to do a mans job!
Seems like we giving up everything for one year of retro. Vote no.
We were told in roll call today that this tier system if going to fuck us for example, northwestern is tier 1 thus will be a 40% co pay on every visit. Please tell me I'm wrong. This goes for retires too. If this is true we will all be broke.
Anonymous said...
If your 50 years of age and retire does the health care cost 2 percent of your check or is it more?
9/06/2014 02:20:00 AM
If you're single and non medicare age it's gonna cost you 489 bucks a month and the coverage is less than when you're working.
And unless we win the court battle that dollar amount increases every year.
How many positions were written out of the contract? What were the other give backs?
It's sounds ok. I'm ready to vote in favor of this new contract. It's not the best, but it's decent. If we decide in favor of arbitration, we stand to receive a less that what is currently offered. We're getting the same 11% as fire and nothing more or less. I knew we were going to loose the 1st year of retroactive pay because of a technicality, but I'm fine we're receiving retroactive pay on the remaining pay, including overtime. Tutition rembursment isn't that big of deal, because most employers have made significant cuts, elimated the program altogether. The new people will people will have to suck it up, and furlough selections is better among the watches is my opinion, with 15yo the job......
I'm sorry, the FLOP did a very poor job on this contract. They fell right into the trap of the city. I have over 15 years on the job and will be voting NO!!! FOP screwed over the new guys and the old timers at the same time. New guys don't get duty availability, thats BS!!! Pick furlo by watch, TOTAL BS!!!! Cars???? Like others have said that is the citys problem, not ours. Down the junky cars and refuse to take a vehicle that is unsafe. Increase in tuition reimbursement. That was really a nice thing for the whole department.
The FLOP couldn't even secure retro for all money earned while the contract was expired. The FOP a penny wise and millions of dollars foolish!!!!!!
how about uniform allowance?
Negotiate for vehicles? That's pure folly. I understand it though. Too many officers whine about the cars. If there are no cars then you sit until there is one, or are told to do something else.
Ha! If you think that you'll be able to get your time due just because the contract says you can get it within reason, you're high! The bosses WILL find a way to make sure you do NOT get your day off. Apparently you haven't worked in 006 if you believe this.
No thanks... Every new contract always seems to be in our worst interests. You never get anything, only lose..
Took me over 20 years to get 2 nd watch and summer furloughs, now I can stay on 2nd watch but without a decent furlough. The furlough by watch should have never been agreed upon. There are only very few perks with senority and now this takes one away. Sorry that it may inconvenience some officers on different watches to fill in for different watches during heavy furlough periods but usually those filling in on a different watch are usually on management on the current watch they are on. I will have to say no to this contract for the furlough by watch. All else is fair however this is huge and those with senority shouldn't be punished because they would like a better furlough which they have put in the time to earn.
Retiree healthcare is a slippery slope. Opens the door to really screw us in the future. For that reason alone I say no.
Keep my retro. I'll keep my healthcare when I retire.
The city also would save money by pushing back the date NEW officers can start collecting supplemental “duty availability” pay . . .
-------------
ABOUT 8 YEARS AGO :
Greg BELLA wrote in an FOP newsletter that this was a strategy that cities were going to use; screw the new employee or new officer that has been promoted.
I do not like it.
In 30 years, future officers will have less rights than we do.
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In 30 years, officers are going to be asking "how is it that I need to wait at least four years for duty availability or pay at least 2% towards medical costs from 55 to 60? They can keep their 2% raise for the first year and the small retro that comes with this garbage deal. Seriously people, look at what we are getting in this deal, and what they're getting. It's not even close to being fair to us. The only thing I'm remotely interested in hearing more about is the time due issue that shouldn't even be a contractural issue. And if they deny you, what option do we have other than grieve it, end up on the shit list, and then expect to be denied next time as well? I'm voting no, and I hope people will give up 2% now to try and save it from being taken in retirement.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Does this mean we won't get retro for the first year's overtime but do get retro for the rest of the overtime?
9/06/2014 02:46:00 AM
If the membership votes to accept the contract, yes.
Anonymous said...
If your 50 years of age and retire does the health care cost 2 percent of your check or is it more?
9/06/2014 02:20:00 AM
More, much more. Think around $800 a month depending on single, married or family. Check with pension fund.
So if your 55 and retire before June 1st of 2017 then you pay no medical?
Those who think the furlough by watch is great, think first, you someday will have enough senority and be on 2 nd watch and then your furloughs will be horrible because today you decided to vote for the contract accepting this. Isn't this what senority is about?
city agreeing to buy new cars? you mean that Cherokee srt or police cars? WHAT THE FUCK DOES BUYING NEW POLICE CARS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH MY CONTRACT??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! crock of shit!!!
Everyone seems to be missing the fact that there now is proposed to be any language at all in the contract regarding the pension.
We do NOT want any language in our contract mentioning the pension at all. NOTHING.
Let it stay in state pension law. Do NOT open that door. Do NOT allow the City of Chicago to get their foot in the door with pension language in the contract. It seems harmless and innocuous now. Just wait two contracts down the line.
When I got hired prescriptions were Zero $ and we paid Zero for health insurance. Now look at how we pay and I spend $100 a month on co-pays on prescriptions. I am fighting to get one medication covered at all, they flat out deny it!
NO PENSION LANGAGE IN THE CONTRACT!
Wake up, that is the worst thing in there. That foot in the door will lead to unknown difficulties in the future. Write that one down for future reference. Do not allow the precedent to be set. And a retired guy as FOP president allowed that? BS.
Furlough by watch, huh?
Now THAT ought to be interesting.
Don't know about other districts, but every year in 011, nearly the entire second watch gets wiped out by old timers taking summer furloughs. This includes school team personnel. It's all we can do to field a watch with fill ins from the other watches.
Re: comp time
What is the definition of "unreasonably" deny comp time? It seems apparent that the city will always deny time for the members without stronger, specific language in the contract. Our labor attorneys and negotiating team should've demanded a concise definition of what "unreasonable" is? I can see this being interpreted different on each watch and districts. This is a loser benefit.
Negotiating for vehicles in the contract, you're joking? This is a city issue not a benefit for the membership. I'm at a lose for words!
Lastly, what about the proposal for court being a minimum 3 hours? It takes me two hours to get to and from traffic court. I'm just saying.
You ask what I will do with my retro, well I'm going to go see Steve Stevens in Vegas with my retro check. Absolute blowout winner! 5k take notes from this guy. You're not on the same level as this Sports consultant.
I have almost 5 years on the job and I was going to go to school after the det exam that is rumored to be coming...... now I'm not so sure I can't really afford to pay out of pocket....also the duty availability thing is bogus...I remember when I first started that money came in handy for the bills and so on and I know new officers Like myself will need it because you don't really make money to after 54 months.... also the not getting your comp time denied thing is bullcrap it should be like that anyway the city is not doing us any favors by giving us time off because it's our time if anything we are doing them a favor because they won't have to pay us so much money when we retire and also do you really think your still gonna get that Saturday night off when half the watch puts in for it!
I would strongly suggest we all vote no on this ballot. We are not gaining anything work giving up 55+ w/medical,tuition reumburement, watch selections, duty availability, etc. We all have to retire at some point and in you all the city to negotiate on any issue in the contract we will be on the losing end. The city always baits us with a large check around the holidays to distract us from the lowsey deal we are getting. We have gone this long without a contract I say VOTE NO. What's the worst that can happen -- Rahm does not get his way and throws a tantrum like he did in grade school. The real reason Rahm is negating at all is because he has an election coming up. Let us use this as leverage to at least keep medical the same without change.
2% 2012;13;14;15,16,and 1% 2017?
WTF does a police vehicle have to do with anything contractual.? They should provide the tools we need to be successful. Whats next... softer toilet tissue?
The contract seems fair. Same as CFD and we knew we would not get anything better than them. The promise about "time off" is a BS lie and we all know nothing will change with that. The department still is terribly shorthanded. I do like furl by watch. It's better for manpower.
In 2017's contract proposal all officers will receive 1 box (12) of BIC pens to write their ANOvs and parkers with. That's bullshit! We should hold out for at least 2 boxes, or 2 pens per month. I write a lot of ANOVs and parkers!
Just walked past Shields in 018. He's walking around with that jagoff smirk on his face but crying at the same time that the papers keep writing about him. Of course they will you asshole!!! And they will during every future contract too!!! Get used to it punk.
11% sounds great on paper, but I encourage all involved to spend 20 seconds checking how inflation wipes this out completely.
http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
$100 dollars in 2009 has the same buying power as $111.05 in 2014... 11.5% less spending power.
Factor in the ComEd, People's Gas, water bill, state income tax, and tax bill increases and were moving backwards.
Plus losing portions of tuition reimbursements, health care, and a boy scout promise to do better in allowing comp time. I too vote NO for those aforementioned reasons.
This is an honest question: what is stopping an arbitrator from raising the contribution to 2%?
Vote no . The economy has improved since the last contract. Rolling the dice in arbitration is much better. Vote no brothers and sisters. Come together just like the teachers did For Once!!! Vote NO!!!
*Officers between age 55 and 59 who retire on or after June 1, 2017 will have to pay 2 percent of their pension checks for health care. That currently is provided free. Officers 60 or older will still get free health care.
I DON'T LIKE THAT.
*Officers will move to greater amounts of time off one year faster than they now do. For example, an officer will move from 20 days off to 24 days off after four years of service, instead of five.
DOESN'T DO ME ANY GOOD BECAUSE I'M ALREADY PAST THAT STAGE IN THE GAME.
*A new provision would require that requested time off for officers “not be unreasonably denied.” Officers now frequently complain that they are not allowed to take time coming that helps them recharge and spend time with their families.
BULLSHIT. Your time will still be denied by the W/C without him/her blinking a fucking eye.
*Only 50 to 75 percent of graduate school costs will be reimbursed after Sept. 1, 2016, compared to 75 to 100 percent today. But scholarship funds in many cases will not be deducted from those payments, as they are now.
DOESN'T AFFECT ME.
The city also would save money by pushing back the date new officers can start collecting supplemental “duty availability” pay now worth $3,420 a year under the contract proposal. Instead of getting quarterly payments after 12 months on the force, officers hired next year would get them after 42 months, the sources said.
AGAIN THIS DOESN'T AFFECT ME BUT I STILL DON'T LIKE IT. I'M WONDERING IF THIS "SOURCE" IS FULL OF SHIT ON THIS ONE.
Don't give a fuck about the department buying new vehicles. That's their responsibility any damn way and has nothing to do with the contract.
The furlough by watch thing would be nice for some, bad for others. Personally it wouldn't hurt me in the D-Unit. Would affect officers on days with 15-20 years on the bottom of the watch the worst.
Be happy with that contract! Oh, on second thought dont be happy, because you live in a tax crazy city and state. Moving out west and becoming a cop....was the best thing I did. Even without raises, I am still better off financially. They are just gonna take that raise back from you when they raise your property taxes in next few years .. Live like a king for now suckers.
Stay with furlough picks by dist. It's a big deal if you have to work nites because your wife works days,someone has to watch the kids . And someone with 15 yrs gets a summer furlo BS because they work afternoons no way pal. Ret rep.
It sounds like all loses to me. What did we gain? And now comes the threats to vote it through or lose your retro in arbitration. I don't know if all you guys who are lining up to sign are blind or just plain dumb but it's scary either way. This was a shit job by this dusty ass crew.
The tuition reimbursement issue applies to graduate school only. Undergrad remains unchanged. The changes would mean an A would be worth 75%, less than A but passing, 50%. But this would be before any scholarships or tuition discounts are applied, which could potentially off-set the extra 25% we would be paying. Currently, tuition reimbursement only covers tution costs AFTER any scholarships or discounts are apllied. All of the commonly used schools that rely on the huge amount of money they get from the city have agreed to offer POs "scholarships" of 25% to off-set the loss of tuition reimbursement.
vote NO fuck Rahm
REMEMBER THE TEACHERS! THEY WERE PROMISED A RAISE AND THEN TOLD THERE WAS NO MONEY, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS THEY STRUCK. Rahm is an Elitist One Percenter, outsider surrounded by East Coast Political Scientists who will leave with him when he is done screwing this City. Giving cops the Retro that was their's anyway is giving them nothing!
Financially, this is a bad deal for the employee. City living increases wipe out any gains.
I could care less about retro, it's like eating an ice cream bar, feel great when you have it in your hand, but immediate regret after it's gone.
NO on this and NO on Rahm. I'll take my chances with the arbitrator.
If we vote no we will loose the retro pay in arbitration all together, 4% for 2 years gone for ever. City doesn't have to pay anything because of the letter fail. That already has been determined.
In the past, tuition reimbursement was calculated after all the grants and discounts (usually 25% discount). Now they will not take the grants and discounts under consideration. Some will come ahead. Tuition reimbursement is a perk we can't complain about.
11% raise is what Sgts, Lts got so no way we get anything better.
55 and out is still in effect until the end of this contract in 2017. They say 2% after 2017 but that will be another contract/negotiation.
As far as duty availability. Do you really wants to vote no because it's only raised $95. What will make you happy? 200, 300, 400? So because of 200-300 bucks you would vote no? That's would be just dumb.
Could it be better? Sure. Will it be better? No way.
We will loose in arbitration, big time.
Gotta vote yes on this one.
The only thing that sounded good in this whole deal was furlough by watch, which makes sense because due to lack of hiring and the re-direction of all new hires to the south and west sides, seniority has become stifled in the rest of the districts, along with the chance of better vacation times. The cars are the city's problem- as someone pointed out earlier, so that should not be something we "negotiate" for. The new officers are really getting screwed having to wait 4 years for differential pay is ludicrous, and no OT for first year of retro is bs too. The raise is a joke considering property taxes and water bills we pay to live here, which will surely go up again so that extra money you get will go right back to city's pocket. Comp time issue was settled in court already, but there is no way to enforce this because districts deny time all the time and use same excuse for "manpower" needs, except of course when that yearly xmas party comes around- then they bend over backwards to accommodate all the officers who take off to attend- never seems to be an issue then. Increase in differential by $100 - over 5 years, but no increase in uniform allowance? Cost of equipment has tripled since I came on over 10yrs ago. Now they want 2% from retirees until age 60- say goodbye to your pension money because that will eat up your paycheck, and if they freeze COLA, your fixed income will be diminished. This proposal is insulting; now in times where we are responding to more calls for service than ever, with national security becoming more and more and issue and radical groups targeting major cities, scrutinized by media, the DOJ, and every race baiting community instigator, add our shortage of manpower on top of that while MILLIONS of dollars are spent without a blink on pet projects, one after the other -for years, and this is what the city and mayor consider a FAIR and REASONABLE contract??? It is a slap in the face to all the men and women, and their families, who have sacrificed their time and lives serving this city, and nothing short of outrageous- period. Sorry but, this contract should be written on Charmin TP because that's all it's good for.
On the issue of the loss of duty availability for new guys, keep in mind the raises for new hires will be huge. On the last raise of the contract (Jan 1, 2017), a PPO goes from $48,071 to $68,620 after TWELVE MONTHS. At 42 months, when the duty availability kicks in, base salary will be at $80,016 NOT INCLUDING duty availability or uniform allowance. That's about what someone with 15 years makes right now. I don't think that's a reason to vote "no". No arbitrator is going to give us more.
Fact: Captns, Lts, Sgts, & Fire already signed off. We are not going to get any more or less, even through arbitration. If the new people get less or have to wait longer, at least they come on knowing that. It should be that the city can not change any contract agreements that are/where in place the day you signed on, backwards and forwards.
When voting for Gov, and I hope all will, keep in mind that if Rauner{spelling??},gets in he wants to change the constitution through any means. Term limits is the opening he is using now. Once the Il state constitution opens up for change , the pension rules will change. He is totally in bed with the tiny dancer. I am so not a fan of Quinn but he is the lesser of the 2 evils. I am not a huge fan of Karen Lewis but do admire her for standing strong against 9.5. Can we get somebody to have a sit down with her and find out exactly how she feels regarding city work. She would do well to have us on her side. If voting today I would vote against Rahm. I don't believe we could do worse than the devil we know.
Contract is not good. Not our business about vehicles and "reasonable requested time". We should have got more for a raise, I couldn't give a shit less about retro. 2% for retiree health care is garbage along with 75% tuition reimbursement. New hires are getting screwed. Unlike streets and San/ Cfd, we are listed as professionals, not laborers. Our contract should reflect that. We are held to higher standards and more is demanded from us, we should demand more from the city. I still say let it go to arbitration. I don't care about losing a year or two of retro. Neither should anyone else who made or is making this your career.
Retro will be on base salary only for the first year, then July 1, 2013, overtime will be included.
Ot,anybody else's ot check not deposited?
ABOUT 8 YEARS AGO :
Greg BELLA wrote in an FOP newsletter that this was a strategy that cities were going to use; screw the new employee or new officer that has been promoted.
I do not like it.
In 30 years, future officers will have less rights than we do.
9/06/2014 03:28:00 AM
That has already begun, two tier pension is now in place. In NYC they are on tier 3 or 4 of pension for NYPD.
So far it doesn't seem to bad...no current health care cost increases (except retirees) and an 11% pay raise. For all the cry babies who think that isn't enough, I think it's a good pay increase in this day and age...basically anyone with 10 years on will be making a base salary of about 90K a year with base pay, duty checks, and uniform....not including any overtime. Most people that cry on this job don't do anything anyways, so show me a job that you can go make 90K a year in this economy and do as little work as most people do on this job?? I had a feeling tuition was going to start decreasing, which is why I'm glad I got my Masters recently. Still, having some tuition payment plan is better than nothing, because again, most jobs/employers out there don't even offer this benefit. Overall, it doesn't seem like we lost much, but we'll have to wait and see....
Don't listen to coppers that masquerade as lawyers. Be forewarned. In 2000 we voted down the contract Nolan and Podgorny agreed to and the arbitrator gave us exactly what we voted down. The last Sergeants contract was negotiated by Jim Ade and was voted down. The arbitrator gave the Sergeants exactly what they voted down. If we vote this down, the arbitrator will give us exactly what Angelo agreed to minus the 2012 retro and pay raise. The arbitrators job is to give both sides what he believes they would have negotiated and agreed to, that has happened already. Sorry folks but that is the fact. So if you are truly unhappy vote out the Angelo team. This contract is a done deal.
They are starting to scale back on tuition reimbursement now. It will continue to diminish until it's gone completely. Same with the 2% healthcare. This is just opening the door for greater increases. Don't be fooled by getting retro. This is money we are OWED. They have no control over time due either. The bosses will decide, as they always do. Bad boss=no time off. Then you have to grieve it, but still don't get the day off you needed. And more cars?? WHY is that being negotiated in our contract? Yes, we need cars. But this is NOT a contract issue. I'm voting no.
Don't worry you will still get so many greedy complainers here. 11 percent raise, no increase in medical coverage and the 55 and out stays. Retro for 2 years, one of which to will be included and nothing given up. Where do I sign. We gained furlough picks by watch also which is big. I'm satisfied, where do I sign.
Wrong Free health care is gone at age 55 2017. Now we have to pay 2 percent. Which means next contract will be 4 percent and so on. School allowance went down. HMO premiums up.
I am voting yes not because I like everything, but because I am not willing to lose the gains that were actually made. Rolling the dice with arbitration could be costly on the front end as well as the decision. Sometimes you have to take what you can get and move on. Put this behind us and focus on fixing the pension mess. It starts with replacing the retired and active member on the board and get some fresh minds at that table. Fire pension produced 23% return last year. Police about 8%.. Imagine what the funds could be if they only had the city owed money to invest. Look at the big picture ad vote yes to move past this stage.
Putting a provision about cars in the negotiations is just ridiculous. Do the taxpayers ever pay attention? How about the Media? This should be the talk of the town. Chicago is so broke that they are threatening the officers with NOT giving them police cars.
"No problem m'am. Our Officers are jogging to your location now!"
You taxpayers need to wake up. This is crazy. Look at your City! You've been voting this way so long, NOW is the time to wake up. Vote out every sitting politician. Hold your nose if you have to, but get rid of these thieves.
If you don't believe they are stealing you have to se that they are completely inept and this town is sinking fast.
Oh so 1100X can't deny us anymore??? Or will he make up the unreasonable time? Or so the Lt merit hacks on 3rd watch can't deny us either?
ssc im voting for it its a decent contract under bo the country is in mess even our great military is only getiing a 1 precent raise and bo tryed to cut tricare and their educational benefits i should know former iraq veteran even boeing union workers no longer hsve a pension, vote yes for the contract and vote for chris christie 2016
Admin love furlough by watch us not to much on days. Midnites and afternoons will love it better furloughs for them. I can remember sitting in the academy in 1986 2.00 for insurance is nothing kid they said yeah right look at us now. Not happy about retro but watch it will be voted in even if everybody you talk to says I voted no
Furlough by watch? So you are giving away seniority and changing the rules in the middle of the game. No retro on overtime is also nonsense. So what's good about this deal? New officers are getting screwed. The only people who benefit from this deal are those with 5-7 years on the job. Why are we always making concessions? What kind of a "union" is this? Vote no. I'll go to arbitration.
Vote No No No
Officer Safety number one issue , all two man cars during the afternoon and midnight shifts . Let's quit begging for duty availability increases , Second Watch gets Zero , first watch 5% pay increase , third watch 6% pay increase .
This will open up second watch bid spots and officers with seniority can bid for the shifts that pay the shift differential for retirement . New cars. F u that's a necessity .
Vote No , make them hire more police to ensure two man cars , my God we had that in the 70's . Make him end the cps preferential in hiring , if anything make every class 75% city residents fair for every Race . This is the time before Election to Reduce the percent of Merit a Promotions , pension reform End the Gold Braid Pension Now . If fop could give back $23,000,000 in loans , fop can end gold braid . Let's Vote No , like the sergeants did . Two man cars , two man cars , when do we want it Now. Vote No .
Making vehicles part of the contract is ridiculous. It's a safety issue not a contract issue. New coppers and experienced coppers get screwed by this deal. Don't ever give away seniority by agreeing to bid by watch for furloughs. Bosses will have their favorite sons and daughters get third watch picks and then detail them to days. Vote no.
anymore evidence techs vein promoted off list?
The duty availability is a RED HERRING!
When you study this you will notice most officer will focus on the RAISE/DUTY AVAILABILITY/RETRO.
1st question
How much does the city save from not paying retro on overtime?
OR rephrase how much is each officer losing this includes all holidays?
Who asked for lowering the time a person receives more day off? It was a give me so the FOP can say they received a concession that nobody asked for.
What happens when a person is refused TIME OFF if no financial punishment is locked into contract stating the CITY will pay $$$.
We keep negotiating insurance for retirees? If a person can't afford to retire they shouldn't.
The focus should have been to lower the retirement age or insurance cost for working police.
Just some thoughts i picked up from the advanced degrees the city paid for in full...
Anonymous said...
*Only 50 to 75 percent of graduate school costs will be reimbursed after Sept. 1, 2016, compared to 75 to 100 percent today. But scholarship funds in many cases will not be deducted from those payments, as they are now.
-----------
What ? ? ?
Need more clarification on this ?
9/06/2014 03:07:00 AM
________________________
Do not worry, Calumet College will gladly give you a scholarship to cover the difference. Lewis is already doing it.
You people that are complaining on here about how much the union gave up really can't read!!!
Graduate tuition reimbursement was compromised on but it will offset with scholarship monies from the universities that make millions of dollars off your backs, undergrad remains the same
Your employee contribution on health insurance remains the same NO increase
You still get retro
People fortunate to retire with 55 still get it for free no other union has this right now
No wellness we are the ONLY union in the city with this...
And yeah you force the city by contract now to give you a car that works , if you are one of the people that constantly complain about your car here you go.
So what did we give up ?????
I'm knocking on the door of almost 18 yrs on.
First of all Spite the last FOP paper filing disaster an arbitrator would not even have to consider Retro, We would lose it in arbitration!
The Firemen have a me too and we don't so it was expected to be very similar in the raise department and it was...Be Happy....Post 911 work world gives a shit about you or me and emergency workers in General. We had Election time on our side and used it to avoid an arbitration disaster and waiting two more years with no contract news.....The Open Door on contributions upon retirement was coming and we have no control on that when you screw paperwork up and try negotiating! Patrol cars are our offices each night so at least it was addressed with the city for more equipment..Furlough By Watch rolls things smoother and won't make everyone happy--Too Bad-- Seniority equals better picks and less hassles- way of life- dont like it then pick a watch that works better for your furlough pick! Holding Newer hires longer on the Duty availability checks doesn't effect current P.O.s so Boo Hoo! When I took the police exam and was hired it benefited my life and accepted the Rules of the Time and contract of the time, if you don't like it then don't become a cop and look for other work before you start the academy and this type of work...Period!
Thanks to the current FOP for at least bringing this in a timely fashion after the train wreck they had to sweep up from...sign off on it and move on until 1 Jul 2017 when the next mess begins!
The cutback in tuition reimbursement will hurt the usual suspect colleges that provide us opportunities.
For all you who think voting no to this contract is a good idea look back on prior contracts that were decided by arbitrators. The arbitrators side with the city we aren't getting more than the sgts or firemen and u will lose first yr retro. Think hard before u vote no.
thing is, the fop already agreed on it...the arbitrator cannot give any more than the fop has already agreed on...we been pooched
The management amounts for watches should be lowered.
The management picks for promotions should be lowered.
Tact officers should have steady watches due to lack of city hiring.
E.T.'s should work out of AREA close units and paid a little more for lack of manpower.
Mandatory BIDs when person retires/quits/bids out/or detailed out passed 90 days.
Meaning if a house mouse is working in the deputies office at HQ and has a plum spot in 018 if they stay passed 90 days that spot in 018 goes up for citywide bid into district.
All management picks posted for promotions.
Detective units have open Bids bonce a year Mandatory.
All these item and i cry seeing a mention of squad cars in my contract!
If it was a take home car i would care.
Whats next free ammo at the range when we qualify???
2% for healthcare will turn into 25% by the time most of us retire. It will end up costing us a lot more than what we get in retro.
On furlo by watch. I dont know what district the person works in who wrote that someone with 20yrs on would get a shitty furlo. But in my district where 40%-50% of the 2nd watch personal has less den 10yrs, because the DC alows this, someone with 15yrs and above should do very well.
I like the fact of no wellness program. My major problem is furlough picks by watch...I leaning toward a no vote.
Anonymous said...
The city also would save money by pushing back the date NEW officers can start collecting supplemental “duty availability” pay . . .
-------------
ABOUT 8 YEARS AGO :
Greg BELLA wrote in an FOP newsletter that this was a strategy that cities were going to use; screw the new employee or new officer that has been promoted.
I do not like it.
In 30 years, future officers will have less rights than we do.
9/06/2014 03:28:00 AM
True but greg bella was also involved in some shenanigans with money missing that Mike Shields tried to expose! As far as the contract my vote is yes 100%, not a bad deal,better than fire got,but then again did fire do another "me to" clause? If we go to arbitration expect to have the same as fir and sergeants and above got the monthly wellness check! Also our raises are the same but we receive an extra 1% earlier than fire, free health care is great,and we will get a 6% raise if we retire next year on the pension check plus the 2% we are not paying for retiree health care so what like an 8% in crease?
If you stay on past 55 and know you could of retired buy you stay for the overtime you in reality tell the city "Nope I don't need that pension,I would rather work all the hours for free then get paid after I pass the amount I would get in pension!
Don't worry you will still get so many greedy complainers here. 11 percent raise, no increase in medical coverage and the 55 and out stays. Retro for 2 years, one of which to will be included and nothing given up. Where do I sign. We gained furlough picks by watch also which is big. I'm satisfied, where do I sign.
9/06/2014 12:24:00 AM
--------------------------------------
Furlough by watch is a city win! One day you will realize this. Remember the only things that matter is money and benefits. And we did not really win there
That 2% will be 60% by the time you retire...
This looks like a list of diminished benefits??????
What have we gained??? At the very least we should not be losing anything. We lost on retired healthcare (2%), educational reimbursment (diminished), and duty availabily for the new guys. Im afraid to see what tbe rest of the contract looks like..discipline, admin.rights, spars, grievances etc..etc.
Look at the bigger picture people, stop talking about retro and look closely. at this point in time, im voting no. Go to a arbitrator, and he/she would not diminish any of our benefits
It's often said but how many people deep down don't really believe it?
We'll have no retirement.
Fitch downgrades N.J. debt, saying Christie is repudiating his pension reform
TRENTON — Wall Street analysts at Fitch Ratings today downgraded New Jersey's bond rating for the second time this year, citing the state's poor economic performance, Gov. Chris Christie's rosy revenue forecasts — which failed to materialize — and his decision to plug the resulting budget gap by cutting $2.4 billion in funding for the state's strained pension system.
Fitch said Christie's decision to cut the pension payments this year marked a "repudiation" of a bipartisan plan he signed to fix the beleaguered retirement system for public workers, which is underfunded by nearly $40 billion, according to state estimates.
Instead of pumping bigger cash infusions every year into workers' retirement accounts to save them from collapse — as Christie and lawmakers agreed to do in his first term — New Jersey is now stepping away from its plan, Fitch said
http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/09/fitch_downgrades_nj_debt_saying_christie_is_repudiating_his_pension_reform.html
Think Chicago's any different?
How many times have we read "Rahm's plans has fallen short..."
Politicians just keep kicking the can down the road. Skipping pension payments today in the hopes some magical solution will fix everything or at least the next guy will take the blame when the time comes tomorrow.
How is Chicago going to pay for it's union wage increases? With revenue from Rahm's Chicago Fire Fest /sarc GTFO!
How about they will skip some more pension payments steal from tomorrow to pay for promises today.
Time to get real with yourself.
If you took a city job because of the retirement benefits there ain't gonna be none.
Everything proposed in this current contract the little give backs here, the push back of this and that, is only just the tip.
Rahm wrote himself an out. If the state forces pension payments this contract is trash.
The Neuro-linguistic programming is set.
We get your to accept these cuts and then shortly after try a little more.
The employment and economic issues are structural and all these ivy league university grads either don't have a clue or don't care. PERIOD!
Benefits:
Raise
Retro on salary
Time Due provision
Renegotiation if pension payment increases
Costs:
2% retiree health payment
No retro on OT
Other provision effect newer POs. The trade is less duty availability vs quicker furlough extension.
No major discipline or work restriction changes. The car provision is meaningless because officers do not have to take an unsafe vehicle. If they do, that's on them. I could care less if the city ever buys new cars.
Seems to be mostly about money, which is consistent when dealing with Rahm.
I'll vote yes.
How many POs actually use tuition reimbursement?
Anonymous said...
I would lose about 2300 with no retro at all for the 1st year.
I still say no because of the tuition issue and the duty availibilty issue.
I am a Detective with close to 15 years.
9/06/2014 12:40:00 AM
Let's see a good detective makes up to extra 4-5 thousand a month in overtime alone and your crying about $2300? We all should be demanding the 600 million be put into pension fund as far as voting for the contract my vote is Yes if you go to arbitration it will be worse! We lost last time with arbitrator not willing to do that again! If your 55 time to put in papers but many coppers say "I'll lose money in overtime if I retire" goofy logic but you give up all regular pay 160 hours a month by not retiring, or to break it down take all the hours you worked last year (you can have time keeper give you list) divide by how much more you make in overtime minus your gross pension now divide hours so you make about $6.00 per hour working!
If you retire don't forget minus your pension payments every check, minus your state tax (no state tax on pension at least for now), minus health care, minute extra insurance the number is? Thought so retire work part time make up the difference you will miss the circus but not worry about any screw up bye pension,bye deferred comp, bye savings,bye family, bye health possibly bye freedom! I'm silly you may say:ok I will roll with that look at officer Wilson in ferguson is he silly? He is anyone of us!
Anonymous said...
The city also would save money by pushing back the date NEW officers can start collecting supplemental “duty availability” pay
--------------------------------
Divide and conquer.
The minute that you create two classes of workers like this is the minute that the people with the better bene's will get pushed out.
If they can't push you out they will make it miserable enough that you will want to leave on your own.
Instead of retiring at 60 with your full health care how about you get pushed out at 50 or 40?
If you think oh don't worry that effects just the new guys and the old guys are home free hehehe. wait. just wait and see.
Pardon my ignorance but..
Is that 2% for health care paid monthly or annually? As an example 2% of $60,000 is $1,200. Is that what I would pay per month or would it be $100 per month?
I will not be voting for this contract. If you break every paragraph of the article down we are gaining almost nothing and giving away everything.
Hey Dean WTF, you get all of your graduate school education paid for and now you are willing to make immediate concessions to the city regarding our tuition reimbursement percentages. Unbelievable...
if you're between age 55 and 59 guess it pays to sit in car till you're 60
A new provision would require that requested time off for officers “not be unreasonably denied.” Officers now frequently complain that they are not allowed to take time coming that helps them recharge and spend time with their families.
Guess what this means? Everything will remain exactly as it is now. The city is not committing to anything on the issue. Don't approve this contract.
How do we get compensated for the overtime if i took time?
Buying new vehicles??? Seriously??? I don't give a f**k if I have no vehicle. I get paid the same, anyone who fell for the city buying us vehicles as part of a labor agreement is a total tool that should be not be allowed to be on this job. Really, buy us vehicles? That's part of supplying us with the necessary equipment to perform our duties on the most basic level. It's like tellling the US army that the government is going to buy their soldiers rifles as part of their pay package. What a joke this city and department is. Thank the good Lord I got 2 yrs left then I can escape this cesspool of graft, corruption, and evil.......
Oooooo the city promises to buy cars. Yeah riiiiiiiight. We shouldn't have to complain about the conditions of these squad cars let alone demand decent functioning vehicles. The city is responsible for providing and maintaining the fleet of vehicles. So why is this being used as a bargaining tool here? Something that we should already have for the sake of doing our daily duties is being talked about like the city is doing us a favor. What's next, promising to repair every shitty district with their multiple issues for the next contract negotiations? Oh wait, I thought we are supposed to already work out of safe, up to code buildings. I'm lucky to get a car that starts, get a PDT (and if there is one it usually doesn't work), AC/Heat (don't know what that is lol), and taking a piss at the urinals is hard to do when all of them are covered with plastic trash bags. What a joke. Luckily I don't take shits at work. I don't understand why the city can't or doesn't just keep our raises consistent with inflation and provide us with the working tools/vehicles that we need to do our job. What's so hard about that?!
Anonymous said...
If they are going to reduce the money for education, are they also then going to do away with the academic requirements for promotions?
9/06/2014 01:37:00 AM
From what I understand it said graduate school reimbursement will be altered. You don't need a master's degree to get promoted. Take advantage NOW, who knows what the future will hold.
Ot....just saw transfer order...the always sponsored merit sergeant from IAD is now going to narcotics....God help those on his team.....him and Sgt RM from AS are no good.
I am not going to vote for this contract based on the fact that we are losing a portion of tuition reimbursement. This is a crappy deal and other cities such as Boston have negotiated for a far better deal than us. I WILL VOTE NO
Merrillville police officer taken off life support after getting shot last night in NW Indiana. Young guy. Sad.
I'm Voting NO! If the money issues are your only issues than an arbitrator will give you that.
The pay and benefits are Still Way better than other places to work
Im sick and tired of talk about back door deals. FACT. If we go to arbitration it is against the law to discuss retro pay for 2012. period.
We have the chance to loose the premium free health and be put in the wellness program. Do you really want to risk that.
Increase in duty pay, Okay the new guys get it after 42 months. SAME AS FIRE. I remember when we did not have and fought to get it pensionable. So you tell me where the negative is. Meet me in 007 this Sunday I will be at the roll calls, and I will explain it to you in person.
No chance of the arbitrator giving us anything better.
Its not the best deal, but its workable. I don'tthink we are gone to get a better offer by going into arbitration. I think we have more to lose if we choose arbitration. An 11% raise is not bad given private sector raises.
Ok So we LOST:
• NO Retro on OT during 2012
• 55 and out free healthcare. Now we have to pay 2%
• Tuition reimbursement from 100% Max (an A) to 75% Max (an A). We lost 25%
• New hires now have to wait 3 ½ years to collect ANY duty availability. Now they get it after 1 year.
We “Gained:”
• 11% Raise over 5 years. This is after the last contract which we got the LOWEST raise in 30 years ( per Scum times and Trib when they talked about Fire contract)
• 24 Straight days instead of 20 days 1 year earlier. All sux until working day. Let’s be real.
• New cars. I’m sure the dollies and inside people will get these 1st. Safe cars is a OSHA thing.
• A NEW (??) Provision which states you “cannot be unreasonably denied time.” Yeah I’m sure we’ll all get Bud Biliken off (The ONLY day NO ONE can take off) Useless.
Ok , I don’t pretend to know everything. Maybe someone can explain to me how this is good. Yes I understand people in the private sector are losing jobs, but last time I checked I tested against 40,000 people and I’m here (Yes I got on in the 90’s) That and we are not here to make a profit. We are here to #1, walk on eggshells and not fuck up at work or home 24/7 and #2 get the bad guys. From what I understand, according to all the brass everything is down. Well who is making the crime problem go away in Chicago? The crossing Guard’s? No, The coppers. All of us. Each in our own way. Sometimes just sitting in a marked squad does help. So we get exactly what the Firemen get? The guys and gals at FD sit around until they are called. Not to be rude to them but lets be real. When we aren’t working, patrol is expected to be out there LOOKING for work. Yes of course they are different and both important jobs (Cops n FD) but look at all the progress we made, all with less personnel. This is a “profession” know, but they took away $ from our College fund. You work your WHOLE LIFE 20+ years for just that carrot at the end and now it’s 2%less. I’m sure it will be much less when you are leaving. All of this AND we miss our kids growing up, our families on holidays and weekends, no bonus $ or stock options. I knew I was never going to be rich being the police. I didn’t do it for money. I gave those things up it because I never liked assholes taking advantage of the weak. I like my job.
Ask yourself right now, what did the City give up for me?
What did I gain?
What I lost, is that equal to what the City gave up for me?
Not telling anyone to vote anyway.. lets post some pros and cons so maybe we all can see something we never thought of.
Is the city hoping that the younger officers are either not going to vote, or are going to be so mesmerized by an 11% raise that they'll willingly give up the duty availability? I hope us older officers don't throw these kids under the bus and take away what's rightfully theirs. Seriously, what does losing that for three years equal, a 5% pay decrease over years two through four of a new officers career? Vote No.
After telling a fop rep that I'm voting no to this bs contract he told me it didn't matter what I vote it's a done deal.
Fyi, supervisors had lost 55 free healthcare in ARBITRATION. that's whatFOP will get. Don't let that be the reason you vote no. Evaluate the other issues before casting your vote.
Promise to give us time to then use the old "manpower permitting" ace to deny us and lowering tuition reimbursement no thank you.
This is proposed contract is embarrassing and insulting to say the least. We gained absolutely noting, but its not so much the gain part that troubles me, its the maintain what we do have that is disturbing. If we vote yes for this contract, the City will continue to chip away at the benefits our past brothers in blue fought so hard for. I hope everyone thinks this through thoroughly before voting yes. The City is trying to buy yes votes for that first year of retro ($2500-$3000).
We give up ground on health care and tuition reimbursement...not to mention erode our duty availability, and still don't get some of the retro for....
1) squads which shouldn't even be part of our contract.
2) a clause of no unreasonable deniable for off days? Some watches you barely have people for all the beats, so you'll still get denied.
3) raise that doesn't keep up with inflation.
4) a couple hundred total more in uniform cash.
WTF.
Vote NO if you value our benefits and want negotiations for stuff that actually matters.
what I dont get is that the FOP is using a "win" for the department that the honor guard is getting 30k a year to travel. I love the honor guard. They train well and they serve a great purpose especially when one of our own is killed. But cmon.. youre using that as a barganing chip!? they are volunteers. They are not required to go to competitions. They are most needed here when they are needed. that is all. sorry if its cold but its the truth.
Im voting NO! The 2% Pandpra's Box Healthcare payment and the bid for furlo by watch is total bullshit. Also, there should be a provision that allows officers maxed out regardless of age to get the healthcare benefits. Some guys got on this job young and after 30 years will not be 55. These issues are big. Your SENIORITY is the only thing that you control. Now we are giving it away for an 11% COLA Raise. Thats exactly what this is. Hell NO!
Make two columns. What did we gain? Pilots will get D-2. WOWSER!. What did we lose? Seniority, Retiree health costs, schooling. No, No, No, and No!
Took me over 20 years to get 2 nd watch and summer furloughs, now I can stay on 2nd watch but without a decent furlough.
Apparently you are not in a working district so take it as it is...
Not a bad deal. I don't think we could do better. At least FOP salvaged some retro that Shields screwed up. We should take this deal. If it drags after the election, we r then screwed.
2nd watch will despise the furlough by watch.
The cars were already bought, had nothing to do with negotiations.
If you max out and are under 55, you should also be eligible for the healthcare benefit. What was the purpose of past contracts that negotiated for 29 and a day if we are going to now have to stay longer? This is a horse shit contract. I think Angelo was drinking JUmmiy Ade's Kool Aid.
The 11% you accept today as a "raise" will be given right back when in the future you pay 11% for healthcare. Vote NO!
Totally against it. Who cares about the cars. They'll get them, when they get them (and they will benefit whoever is selling them more than us).
Also the newer po's getting screwed on the duty availability, no.
Also for anyone thinking the furlo changes would help them with less time on, maybe, for now. But think of the future when maybe you decide that it might be good to see the light of day and then you find out you can't get the furlo that you would like. Major screw job.
.....Why would you even put in a contract buying vehicles?.....
Because it forces them to do something, by a certain date, that they could put of for months or years.
We use to buy 600 new cars every year in the 70's, 80's, and 90's.
When was the last time the city did that, the 600 Tahoe contract was NEVER fully fulfilled.
And the Ford Explorer contract is in limbo.
Do we need cars? Hell yeah. But why let the city decide if and when they will buy them?
$95 bump in duty availability and D-2 for helicopter pilots. Where do I sign? Is this contract for real? The price of the city sticker on my old ass pick up truck went up more than this over the last 5 years.
Who would sell their seniority for a 5 year contract and an 11% inflationary raise? Not me!
One term for Angelo...this stinks
Why would we be giving anything up? THIS IS CRAZY.
They are giving us 2% then taking it right back in healthcare costs. That is crap and opens the door to further elevated healthcare costs in the future. Then I have 23 years on and will bet a 3b furlo in the D unit 2cnd watch. No friggn way! This is a lemon.
In the 80's, we were offered a deal by Mayor Harold to eliminate the 30 year step raise. Everyone was up in arms about losing that raise. We voted no and kept it.
We screwed ourselves in a big way, Harold was laughing so hard, he could not believe how stupid we were.
We were essentially offered to get to TOP PAY in 25 years instead of 30. More money in less time and we said no.
Coppers will always screw themselves because they don't think beyond today.
Dick Tracy
So...low seniority 5th Watch humps "working" 2nd or Turd Watch hours will do furlo bids with only fellow 5th Watch humps? Goodbye 3A and 11A, hello 6A and 12B -- Sweet! Thanks FOP!!
Don't listen to coppers that masquerade as lawyers. Be forewarned. In 2000 we voted down the contract Nolan and Podgorny agreed to and the arbitrator gave us exactly what we voted down. The last Sergeants contract was negotiated by Jim Ade and was voted down. The arbitrator gave the Sergeants exactly what they voted down. If we vote this down, the arbitrator will give us exactly what Angelo agreed to minus the 2012 retro and pay raise. The arbitrators job is to give both sides what he believes they would have negotiated and agreed to, that has happened already. Sorry folks but that is the fact. So if you are truly unhappy vote out the Angelo team. This contract is a done deal.
9/06/2014 10:18:00 AM
I plan on it, and I hope the boy wonder doesn't think he's owed the presidency in the future because his dad is president as we speak. I don't expect any larger a raise than we have gotten, but screw the retro, and don't open the door into paying for healthcare. And giving up duty availability for the new kids... What the hell are they thinking?
👌👍
Play by the rules and finally get a bid spot on days only to end up with a shitty furlough because these fools want to give away seniority? No way. All this contract does is give away while gaining nothing. Vote no.
Anonymous said...
Hey Dean WTF, you get all of your graduate school education paid for and now you are willing to make immediate concessions to the city regarding our tuition reimbursement percentages. Unbelievable...
9/06/2014 12:16:00 PM
___
Dean has just cornered the market on the tuition reimbursement. I am not alleging that he planned it that way but it is very probable that he did. I am glad that I already have my masters degree. You guys have to learn to do something for yourselves.
Furlogh Picks By Watch Will Be Great!!
Count me in for a "NO" vote!
It's almost laughable that the lodge would even put this before us for consideration.
While 11% may seem "OK" in this economy, it is still negative when you compare it to the cost of living increase and what we LOST in the last contract. And whoever keeps saying it is 3% a year better go back to school.
And WTF does buying new cars have to do with our contract? That's equipment that the employer is supposed to supply! And there already are provisions to address this issue. They're called a safety grievance and OSHA safety complaint. BOTH of which should have been filed by the lodge long ago! But they wasted negotiating for real benefits on that?? Almost comical!
And just because fire and the Sgts agreed to the 2% retirement healthcare payment, doesn't mean we have to be "sheep" and get in line for slaughter! We just opened Pandoras Box on that one. Just about 20 years ago, our insurance was FREE! Looked at your check lately? It's why we all have different contracts. It's not a "one size fits all"!
As for the comptime denial issue, I can't believe the lodge would actually use such ambiguous language in the contract such as "unreasonably". WTF does that mean? I'll tell you, it means the bosses are laughing and will continue to deny time using bullshit excuses just like they did before with no recourse for them doing it!
But I'm sure most will bite the city's carrot in the form of a retro check, just like they have done every contract before. We have too many officers living WAY beyond their means. I've already heard the same old "show me the retro check bullshit! The city negotiators must laugh at us every time contract negotiations come up. And it took 2 1/2 years to come up with this pathetic offer?
So, while I'm guessing this will be ratified, I'm still voting NO. At least my conscious will be clear knowing I didn't agree to this pathetic offer. Bottom line, when you calculate it all out, it's NEGATIVE! Great offer Rahm to reward the hard work we do keeping this place from becoming the next Detroit!
So have fun blowing your measly retro check on some more crap that you probably shouldn't have bought anyway. Thank god this will be my last contract to suffer through in this dump!
(OT) was driving down Stevenson I-55 to the lake when I see state police heading east my direction lights sirens blaring traffic quickly pulling over, 3 squads in front then 2 tour busses then 3 more behind are you kidding me? Found out it was a sports team being escorted from the airport! Are you kidding me? Sports teams getting rapid police escorts? Most of them are thugs what kind of madness is this? This needs to be looked into by the media Hiram Grau you took over ISP what politician gets paid off for this? What if someone had an accident and was kllled or injured due to this waste of manpower? Let them wait in traffic who do these overpaid millionaires think they are! Sorry SCC but thanks for letting me vent!
In this current economic climate 11% is to be expected. The furlough by watch is a real kick in the teeth to Senior Officers. The guarantee of enjoying the summer off with your family is a major slap in the face to Seniority and is designed to force Senior Officers to work busy Districts or a busier watch. Those of you that are younger and single think this is a good thing, and it is for you now, but in 15 yrs you will change your mind. Why the F.O.P. hasn't forced the issue of forcing officers to work harder and more unsafe with the lack of manpower and working vehicles is beyond me. I do not trust this Scumbag Mayor and if he thinks this is going to change our vote he's nuts.
Im sick and tired of talk about back door deals. FACT. If we go to arbitration it is against the law to discuss retro pay for 2012. period.
We have the chance to loose the premium free health and be put in the wellness program. Do you really want to risk that.
Increase in duty pay, Okay the new guys get it after 42 months. SAME AS FIRE. I remember when we did not have and fought to get it pensionable. So you tell me where the negative is. Meet me in 007 this Sunday I will be at the roll calls, and I will explain it to you in person.
9/06/2014 01:38:00 PM
Who are you? Be nice to know who we are meeting?
Why does everyone sign anonymously on this website? I always sign my name when I comment. IAD has never come to my door, never followed me home and it surely hasn't gotten my put on 1st watch. Freedom of speech still applies?
P.O. Bill Spyker, 009th, 2W
What did we gain here? Nothing. Tiny Dancer wants to get re elected and we, for once, actually have some cards to play. Instead they want us to give up seniority and screw young coppers? No way. Don't be afraid of arbitration. Last time it wasn't great but it was good before that. The economy is better now. Don't settle for a contract that isn't good. Fight for something better. Shame on Dean and the negotiating team. Vote no.
I was told today at roll call that the annual FOP picnic will be extended an hour starting next year.
Hey new guy! We are going to assign you to a shitty district and not give you the same benefits as everyone else. Have fun and welcome to the Job.
I think losing part of tuition reimbursement is big since 50% of the officers on here don't know the difference between Lose & Loose.
Lose - to give up; forfeit the possession of:
to lose a fortune at the gaming table.
Loose - free or released from fastening or attachment:
a loose end.
Plan, Plan, Plan. I married a young gal and then retired. She is covering my insurance. Retirement is Great.
This contract is a joke. At what point do we win out all? All I see is a win win scenario for the city and as far as time due is concerned its not contractual....we are supposed to get to use it per arbitration anyway. The city is supposed to supply us with vehicles to do the job we are paid to do. If the mayor is trying to gain our votes for his next election hes doing it wrong.....this is laughable and I will not vote for it....Id rather take my chances with the arbitrator than roll over like this.
JUST A CITIZEN SAYS: I am so sick and tired of hearing about all of you getting jacked around over and over and over and over. This city treats you like shit. Honestly? I would LOVE to see you all leave and let Animal Farm begin. I'd be out west by then tho, so I could watch from afar and all of you would have better jobs where you were treated with the dignity and respect you deserve! Hope springs eternal...
I'll be voting NO solely due to the Furlough section.
Seniority needs to count for something.
I could give a fuck if it's difficult to man a watch due to furloughs. It's not the furloughs, it's the lack of bodies.
The city cut the bodies then they come crying.
You young guys think it will be great, until your able to move watches and see FNGs getting better furloughs than you.
Kind of ironic that a retired president gives up a seniority benefit. It doesn't affect him or all of the retired board members.
Wait till the next contract when the city will rant to change the furlough percentages.
Finally, the duty availability for the FNGs blows too.
They mostly will be working midnites during those months the aren't eligible.
I came on with a GED. STOP WITH THE TUITION REIMBERISHMENT.If you want to further your degree? PAY FOR IT.
The big sticking point with me is the changes to our health care coverage, and the co-pays. Historically, changes like this, have proved to be a very slippery slope, that was not beneficial to the membership. I'm voting no.
To.
9/06/2014 11:12:00 AM
That's why each one of us has a vote.
I'm voting no - so Boo Hoo!
And down the line rahm will be telling you, your pension is being rolled over to a 401k with just your contributions...Too Bad.
Rainer ain't running for giggles, he's there to do rahm's bidding.
"...Do not worry, Calumet College will gladly give you a scholarship to cover the difference. Lewis is already doing it...."
because both those programs are nonsense diploma mills and gravy train jobs for clouted instructors
Vote your conscience, but if it's modeled after the sgt, lt and firemen contracts Ill vote yes. If the other unions got way better deals then I'll vote no. So if someone could post a comparison of contract details of those union deals I think that will give everyone a better perspective.
I'm Voting NO. I have 22yrs on.
this is why,
*Officers between age 55 and 59 who retire on or after June 1, 2017 will have to pay 2 percent of their pension checks for health care. That currently is provided free. Officers 60 or older will still get free health care.
No OT Retro for first year.
*Quarterly payments for duty availability will gradually increase during the five years of the contract, from $805 on Jan. 1, 2012, to $900 on Jan. 1, 2017.
*If the state requires police to contribute more to their pension funds, the contract can be renegotiated on the issue of pay hikes and duty availability pay.
*A new provision would require that requested time off for officers “not be unreasonably denied.” Officers now frequently complain that they are not allowed to take time coming that helps them recharge and spend time with their families.
I would like more then 11% but it that isn't bad.
Still voting NO and letting the chips fall were they may.
VOTE NO.
Voting yes. A lot of dumb people on here must want to give up even more in arbitration. If you ask me rahm wants us to vote no.
If you're going to pick furloughs by watch then you should pick like the supervisors do. If you split you get one pick and it goes around before you get a second. Example: the #2 sgt out of 10 gets the 2nd and 12th pick on his watch.
So a veteran officer on days who just made it would still get a decent pick out of the two.
Doubt it will happen.
The best is comment by our president the 1st thing he lists as a gain in this contract is helicopter pilots getting paid more! how many fucking helicopter pilots are there! and why didnt they get feeback at roll calls ! cuz they dont care what we think!
Take the money and do not vote for him !
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