What the Order Says
There have been a couple comments claiming we have the wrong schedule up. Here's what the order says:
- 3. the 10.5 hour work schedule and the 70-series rotating day off groups.
a. Every 49 days (seven calendar weeks) the work cycle repeats itself:
- three (3) work weeks of working five (5) consecutive days with three (3) consecutive days off, followed by
- one (1) work week of working five (5) consecutive days with four (4) consecutive days off (weekends), followed by
- two (2) work weeks of working four (4) consecutive days with four (4) consecutive days off (weekends)
The order is poorly written, using the phrase "work week" which numbers 8 days. They also use the word "weekend" when it appears that the four consecutive RDO's occurs only during the MTWTh, TWThF or WThFSa segments - which is slightly outside the accepted definition of "weekEND." We have attempted to represent this via an actual 7-day calendar so you can see how it affects everything.
Amazingly, we have still only ended up deleting about a dozen comments, most of which run afoul of the regular rules, such as the one saying if your entire point is "quit the job," then don't expect it to see daylight. Or the usual off topic stuff that is permitted in other threads, but only takes away from the discussion at hand.
Here are some of the points brought up in the comments that deserve some more debate and explanation:
Amazingly, we have still only ended up deleting about a dozen comments, most of which run afoul of the regular rules, such as the one saying if your entire point is "quit the job," then don't expect it to see daylight. Or the usual off topic stuff that is permitted in other threads, but only takes away from the discussion at hand.
Here are some of the points brought up in the comments that deserve some more debate and explanation:
- Question: What do you do when there is an emergency and it's "All Hands On Deck!" like 9/11 in NYC? If you lose an entire shift, where is your extra coverage to flood the streets?
That's a very good point:
- Per the contract I receive 25 working furlo days, which equals 200 hours, with a 10 hour day that equals 20 days. So now I have to come up with 50 comp time hours to get my contractual vacation time. doesn't sound good to me.
We covered this - if you bid according to your days off, you might luck out, but since furlo-by-watch is the new law of the land, chances have been reduced quite a bit. And who knows what they'll allow with extensions - we're betting it will be severely curtailed:
- No for the following reasons:
1.) It makes elder care and child care very difficult and impossible in some situations. You are also screwed if you have a business, side job, or go to school.
2.) They will use this to reduce our numbers further, watch. Less working coppers = faster pension bankruptcy.
3.) The hours blow, no matter which way you slice them.
These are considerations of middle-aged to older coppers. Younger guys and gals aren't going to see this unless it's pointed out to them.
- Ok, let the flaming begin, but isn't OT due if one works over 40 hours a week?
Maybe a timekeeper or someone versed in labor law can chime in. We don't know, but it's a legit question.
In any event, continue discussing.
In any event, continue discussing.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
127 Comments:
Overtime is not due. We have been working over 40 hours a week (42.5) with the 4-2 schedule most weeks.
I liked working this schedule for the 2 yrs I did. How come no mention of second month of no openings for POs?
So what's the city's angle? Continue supplementing current manpower with overtime? The city will have to because crime is only going up with less p.o.'s.
If the City wants it they need to pony up!
The start times are horrific.
Unless the City wants to make salary from OT pensionable.
The net effect more arrest leads to more court and lower crime stats.
But do you think Prick-wrinkle wants anyone in county jail?
We barely have used the 9 hour day so all the math genius should stay calm and focus on other matters.
health care
pension
manpower
As for the over time questions in regard to a 40 hour work week, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't we're already doing that.
Let's say you work
sun 9 hrs
mon 9hrs
tues rdo
wed rdo
Thurs 9 hrs
Fri 9 hrs
Sat 9 hrs
According to my math that's 45 hrs. Unless it's really 8.5 x 5, then it's 42.5. Still over the 40 hr threshold.
All you MSF,Tru and unit rewards who think this is a good schedule need your head examined. This is not thecsame schedule you all worked.
Back then we had the 6 day work schedule which was brutal. The 10hr day was better than that. We now have a 4-2 schedule which allows you to catch up on those weeks when you're in court. The 4-2 is great for that.
Eliminating an entire watch is bad news and a terrible precedent. 10 hr days for anyone w a family means if you have court you'll. Never see them. For those of us involved coaching, going to our children's events, and supporting our children you can kiss that good bye.
The Sgts Union and Sgts in 005 are against the 10hrs.
The fop pres needs to go! They have no time for questions. They'll look into it, NOT!!!
Bottom line is 10 hour days are not beneficial in a fast paced crime ridden city. Its too much and the biggest red flag is when this conniving mayor and puppet gmac suggest things for us that means it furthers their agenda and not necessarily in our best interests.
"1.) It makes elder care and child care very difficult and impossible in some situations. You are also screwed if you have a business, side job, or go to school.
2.) They will use this to reduce our numbers further, watch."
I saw this coming before I retired. Make the reality of less coppers by scheduling hours (increasing the work day hours past the normal 8hrs.) in order to make the appearance of more coppers on the street, when in actuality there are less coppers. Do more with less, more smoke and mirrors for the public.
And still coppers will be sitting idle in the station waiting for cars and radios or send coppers home early to get the next shift out because the city won't spend the money to fully equip the coppers.
The public should be made aware of this slight of hand scheduling.
You have the weekends incorrect,
ThFSaSu
FSaSuM
SaSuMT
What was wrong with 3 8 hour shifts ? 24 hours in a day? 3 8s works for over 150+ years, why fix it?
I feel for those working midnights, then having 26th street or a trial in branch or traffic court
I have said this before, the last midnight officers leave at 6am...days starts at 530am so they don't hit the street intil 6am...that means a total of 5 people on the street for almost 2 hours..of those 5 officers 2 are on the wagon and transporting to the county. So you have 3 officers holding down a district that runs from 95th st to 138th st Ashland to bishop ford...brilliant.. in theory there are supposed to be 3 rapids up too but with furloughs, iod and medical it rarely happens ..,,brilliant ..also FOP why cant you get the city to make my BFD worth 10hours? Its bullshit I have to burn 2 hours comp time when I take a bfd
I was told by a City Hall source months ago, that the goal of this 10 hour work schedule is to do more with less and eliminate all VRI saving the city 100 million. They will use manpower to cover VRI assignments at regular pay instead of overtime. Again, hurting our pension funds and depleting patrol even further at the expensive of the neighborhoods.
The Illinois Public Labor Act mandates the three mandatory subjects of bargaining are Wages, Hours and Conditions of Employment. The scheduling agreement between FOP and the City does a very significant thing, which is bid for starting times! How many times have officers been bounced regarding starting times. I realize the pilot program may not appear Utopian, but that is why it is a pilot. Also, Dean got the best deal regarding the contract he could have gotten given what transpired previously in negotiations. Arbitration is intended to be a very conservative process, which is not supposed to produce anything the could not have been naturally born from negotiations. The current FOP administration has provided a greater amount of transparency then I have ever seen during my numerous years on the CPD.
vote of no confidence for Dean
Might as well be a fair share member and keep what little money you can
FLOP is not a BENEFIT
My side job is overtime: late arrests, writing a search warrant on my Friday and going home the next day etc. I go to court but my biggest moneymaker comes when it's time to go home and I stick around. The 10 hour schedule would make that more difficult.
I continue to write tickets and ANOVs to make the bosses happy
My life ...not so much
So time to take a look at the BS positions like Crossing Guard Supervisor CAPS Office CMDRs in side folks
Spread the pain by Seniority
I don't like it, don't want, but refuse to be forced out with just a portion of my pension. Rahm is counting on a lot of us with twenty plus years to retire early. He can hire two yes men and women to our one. With us gone there will be no one left to guide these young officers about their rights, then he will force his pension reform down everyone's throat. We all have given a lot of blood sweat tears and some of us our lives, not to get the little that we have earned.
Good Luck on 10 hour days.
I do not know what will happen if/when Ferguson comes to Chicago. And we know it is coming. It is just waiting for the right/wrong incident. Rahm's old boss and his race-baiting cronies have seen to that.
How many officers will it take when 20 or 30 business blocks are being looted and torched? When the smoking blocks are in 4 or 5 different neighborhoods? Or will we all just watch them burn on live TV?
And then watch the taxpaying population of the city head for the distant suburbs as fast as they can dump their houses. Just like Detroit in 67, and Ferguson today.
Thanks Mayor Rhama
Under Your currently CPD schedule
Sunday, 10:00AM. An officer is asked to respond to a burglar alarm.
Police officer: “Are you aware that this [burglar] alarm call came in at 9:11?”Dispatcher: “Yes I am.”
Not enough cars and too busy
WAIT til 10.5 Hour Days
BTW was it a Copper house? We'll never know
ENJOY
Section 20.1 — Work Day and Work Week.
All time in excess of the hours worked in the Officer’s normal work day and the normal work week
shall be compensated as provided in Section 20.2.
HA HA! Gotcha! Suckers.
New contract says no more 40 hour work week.
OT does not have to be paid out until after 84 hours in a pay period (14 days) to police and fire.
Start time this, start time that. Let's face it, the 10-hour schedule has one purpose only - reduce the number of coppers. Regardless of the toll it takes.
If they want me to work these hours then pay me more a lot more.
Ok, let the flaming begin, but isn't OT due if one works over 40 hours a week?
Doesn't CFD get OT when they go over 40 hours by their 24 hour shifts?
How about guys stop complaining about the 5-6 weeks per year they can be on vacation and start thinking about the 46 weeks per year that they have to be at work..... Once again look at the big picture!!!!
or.... just eff the 10 hours. leave the 4-2 alone
Listen people.......I have 14 years on. I've done every schedule possible on this job......the most recent I worked were the now 4-2, before that 6-2, before that 12 hr days on a detail. I work in 005 and now experienced the 10 hr day. With everything you LEARN to adjust and I love it now. If they told us we are going back to 4-2 schedule MANY of us would be upset. The only mouths u people are hearing from is the 5% that had issues (child care) and now flood this blog with BS. The days off are great. U literally can take 1 comp time day and basically have a baby Furlo when ever the 4 days come. That's 5 days to go and do anything. As for time for working out......you FIND time. It's not that hard, u find the time. 005 is considered the guetto so for the crybabies in 010, 011, 015, 007, 006.........think about how much time u actually "work" for the city in 8.5 hours......now just add 2 more hours of "free time".
Less time a day but more days AT WORK is far worst than few hours more but LESS days AT WORK.
I cannot stress how bad the hours are enough. That comment is spot on. if you guys in your short-sighted delusions think nothing in your life will change, guess what? be ready to be hit upside the head with Fate's baseball bat. We get married. We have kids. Our parents and loved ones get sick or injured. We need the three watches to have options.
Shame on anybody who has not read this dysfunctional order yet.
Until you have you have no right to chime in on how great this NEW 10 AND A HALF hour day is.
The order:
http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57b73-14a63ae6-eac14-a63b-123bdbe1f8105bff.pdf?hl=true
Anonymous said...
Do we need a vote of no confidence for Dean?
3/30/2015 02:03:00 PM
YES! WTF? Who's side is he on?
OT: Why was McCarthy at the graduation of 111 new recruits on Monday? The man is on the medical and hasn't been at work since before his wedding on New Years Eve. Something doesn't smell right. The man is making 260,000 to go to police graduations? How do I apply for that job?
I agree with the whole bs "hours" for furlo. Our Contract states "Days Off"...not "Hours Off". A day is a day. If I want to extend my furlo and be off on Monday, I'm taking the Day off and using my Contractual Vacation Day. Whether my work day is 8 hrs or 12 hrs, a Day is a Day.
Comp Time I'll deduct what "hours" in a day I use.
– Oh, there are TimeKeepers versed in Labor Law (good one)? It's quite clear, the 40 hour work week is the national standard. It's upon our FOP to argue and they haven't, there was some discussion on it years ago when the 6/2 schedule and shift rotation was in the early stages.
This is an O'Neil Deal, it's about as valid as a Reform Rahm Pension Plan.
First Responders should not be giving in to private sector concessions.
For the cheap seats, in case you missed it:
Remember 40% to days, 60% to nights. DC gets 20% management for the day shift. So you need to be in the top 30% of your district to not be on midnights.
----------------
Here are the hours.
Day Shift:
10 Sector - Squadrol - Rapids 0530 hours 1600 hours
20 Sector - Rapids 0700 hours 1730 hours
30 Sector - Rapids 0900 hours 1930 hours
40 Rapid Response 0900 hours 1930 hours
District Desk Early Assignment 0500 hours 1530 hours
District Desk Late Assignment 0800 hours 1830 hours
District Station Supervisor 0500 hours 1530 hours
Night Shift:
10 Sector - Squadrol - Rapids 1630 hours 0300 hours
20 Sector - Rapids 1830 hours 0500 hours
30 Sector - Rapids 2000 hours 0630 hours
40 Rapid Response 1830 hours 0500 hours
District Desk Early Assignment 1600 hours 0230 hours
District Desk Late Assignment 2000 hours 0630 hours
District Station Supervisor 1900 hours 0530 hours
overtime doesnt begin after 40 hours.
Mater of fact, it was proposed in the late 90's to have that provision added to our contract.. It was seen as a way to force the city to change its 6-2 schedule without specifically saying what schedule. At the time any change was sought to eliminate the 6-2. It never materialized and 15 years later we have 4-2.
OT --
Quick robbery pattern developing, 300 and 400 blocks of W. 51 St. to start, 3-4 M/1 putting construction barricades in middle of street and then jumping out on drivers when they stop and get out to move them.
OT--
Good news. Boston copper shot in traffic stop doing better, off critical list, will have surgery to remove bullet from neck, expect to take him out of intensive care soon.
Guy caught a .357 slug under the right eye. Miracle he's alive.
Ballistic sidelight -- just technically wondering -- full-house Magnum load, or generic .38 Spec. 158-gr. RNL, the loaded-down SAAMI-spec load for Grandpa's old break-top night stand gun, or 148-gr. .38 midrange target wadcutter? Anemic old .38 S&W RNL with green bullets? Mixed bag, they stick anything they have in there. Might have saved a worthwhile life.
D__kheads.
The 10 hour scheduled is already in your FOP book and has been for years. All you have to do is look to see how it works. Just take your current day off group and put a 7 in front of it. Bingo, that was easy.
Depending on how you pick your furlough, you may lose a day or two. However if you pick it correctly you will probably gain a day or two. Remember you have either three or four days off in a row every week instead of two.
Most will actually use MUCH LESS comp time on the 10 hour scheduled. Depending on the calender year, you end up with an average of 50 additional days off each year. In the past two years I have used 0 ZERO comp time. And you still get to sell it all back!!!
Imagine what you can do with 50 additional days off each year. That is 50 more days you do not have to get up, get dressed and go to work and deal with all the Bull Shit.
200 hours doesn't equal 25 working days. If you do the math it is 23.5 days. To get to your 25 days you currently have to burn a day and a half of comp time. Do you really want to burn 40 hours to get your 25 day vacation if we go to the ten hour schedule. The city is not going to "Give" us or renegotiate our contract to give us more furlough days. Think about it.
If Chuy wins then Rahm and McCompstat will be in the rearview mirror and so will this 10 hour day nonsense.
Anybody but RAHM. Go Chuy go!
Seriously..who is going to take this job with the given future circumstances. This job was fun when I first came on.
After almost 17yrs on, I often ponder if I made the right decision staying with this job given the current situation. The family time missed, kids growing up, holidays, friendships stressed and mental anguish of things seen on the job. They will force the middle to golden year police out only to hire younger more inexperienced police at a lower rate. It seems like profitability over safety has been the practice around here. The question of ,"how can I get more with less" seems boundless.
The days of the old timers sticking around 30-40yrs. to mentor will be extinct. Their knowledge and experience is invaluable in dealing with the public in the patrol division. With work times possibly changing, o.t. court appearances, pension issues and promotion practices, I have little faith in this job. It's becoming blood money with little value.
Just wait for the mass exodus of officers by next year when the 55 and out free medical is over. The smart will leave like lemmings falling off a cliff. What will be of this department after that?
The current 25 furlough days or 200 hours is under the old 8 hour day rule. (200 divided by 8 is 25) Now that we work 9 hour days it should have been adjusted to reflect 25 furlough days right? But guess what it wasn't was it.(200 divided by 8.5 is 23.5 days) And if we go to ten hour days you will now get 20 furlough days. (200 divided by 9.5 is 21 days)Grab a calculator and do the math yourselves.
I don't care anymore. If we get the 10 hour day I'm leaving. I called Jewel and my bagger job is open and it is in the suburbs. It's a win win.
Out of the hundreds of comments from people that actually work this now not who used to work it in this unit or in the d unit over 95% are against this schedule. That should tell you something. I work this schedule and have decent hours but the day is just to long and ruins the rest of your day when you are working. 4 and 2 will be fine for the rest of my career.
Check the comp time box for all your OT and take an extra day off every other week and you will have many 4 day week ends . Off we'd,th,fri , take sat , off m,t we'd take the Sunday Off
Ten hour day is the best
Anonymous said...
I have said this before, the last midnight officers leave at 6am...days starts at 530am so they don't hit the street intil 6am...that means a total of 5 people on the street for almost 2 hours..of those 5 officers 2 are on the wagon and transporting to the county. So you have 3 officers holding down a district that runs from 95th st to 138th st Ashland to bishop ford...brilliant.. in theory there are supposed to be 3 rapids up too but with furloughs, iod and medical it rarely happens ..,,brilliant ..also FOP why cant you get the city to make my BFD worth 10hours? Its bullshit I have to burn 2 hours comp time when I take a bfd
3/31/2015 02:53:00 AM
maybe the fop can sell out the medical too?
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
LMAO Time to Clean house at the Academy
John the FTO Guy time to go
Understand your wife died of cancer over 12yrs ago but both my wife and father had the Big C and Im still on the streets 20yrs
Youre not special and besides Your own leather chair from the house Please>>>>......
Stop the CLOUTED BS
3/27/2015 11:50:00 AM
I cannot believe you have the balls to slam this man. He is the hardest working member of the academy. John never says no to anyone. he works hard 8 plus hours a day. What happened to his wife is absolutely none of your business. No one cares more for the FTO program than John. 35th street treats the FTO program as a joke. Name one white shirt who cares about the FTO program? Then you mention clout? 75% of this job is clout. He earned his spot and works hard to help recruits and FTO's. Now go back to your basement apt, asshat.
3/27/2015 05:10:00 PM
______________
Everybody at the academy works hard. Most of us have masters degrees. We earned our spots and we work to keep our spots. We are professionals. If you guys are jealous, the you lame brains should have stayed in school.
Every time, when the department needs something, we are there with the training.
We are the Seal Team Six of the CPD.
3/28/2015 08:26:00 AM
Before anyone asks if the people at the academy are working ten hour days, the answer is no. We will be working Mondays through Fridays.
Anonymous 005 District PO said...
Listen people.......I have 14 years on. I've done every schedule possible on this job......the most recent I worked were the now 4-2, before that 6-2, before that 12 hr days on a detail. I work in 005 and now experienced the 10 hr day. With everything you LEARN to adjust and I love it now. If they told us we are going back to 4-2 schedule MANY of us would be upset. The only mouths u people are hearing from is the 5% that had issues (child care) and now flood this blog with BS.
Being with my wife and kids is not "BS". I'm sorry you could not find anyone to love you. Or maybe your business does not work. Not my problem, really. But being around to raise my kids right is. Find someone to love, because The Job wont
Who in their right mind would take this job looking at those start times?
We all did our time on midnights. but it was just a few years. With this crap you'll be doing midnights for 15 years! For what?
I don't understand why this city is so far behind compared to other big cities. Los Angeles Police have a 3 day/12 hour work day. The officers there love it. So much that some don't even take rank advancement bc they want to keep this schedule. Of course CPD is too worried about making their officers miserable and screwing them out of time to implement this schedule.
To Anonymous 005 District PO. Listen stroke you think you are special cause you have worked all those work schedules in your whole 14 years on the job? Well guess what junior so have I and I would love a three watch system for 10 hour days not this two watch crap. What you fail to realize is that the city is doing this to dance around the man power issues and thus drain the pension fund even faster. You cut out an entire watch that means 1/3 less police funding our pension. It's a bigger issue than child care or court, use you head. If the city does go this way I have no problem adapting since I have did it before, never trust the city. I see you have it all figured it and I hope when you retire the pension is still there, as for me I will drain it till the day I die just hope that 10 hour short sightedness doesn't leave you working at walmart as a security guard when your 70.
Day Shift:
District Station Supervisor 0500 hours 1530 hours
Night Shift:
District Station Supervisor 1900 hours 0530 hours
So, who's in charge between 1530 and 1900 hours?
I know, there is few suburban departments that work 10 hours schedule, anyone know what start times they have?
I'm totally against the 10.5 hr day if they want to do this make it a 12 hr day 0600-1800 hrs and 1800-0600 hrs. That's it! You work 4 on and 3 off, that's 48 hrs a week. I would not want to do it but it would be better than all these awful start times.
I was told by a City Hall source months ago, that the goal of this 10 hour work schedule is to do more with less and eliminate all VRI saving the city 100 million. They will use manpower to cover VRI assignments at regular pay instead of overtime. Again, hurting our pension funds and depleting patrol even further at the expensive of the neighborhoods.
3/31/2015 04:40:00 AM
So to the people who say I'm voting for Rham because Chuy said he would eliminate VRI and hire more officers instead, please think this through. I love VRI too but This is Rhams way of eliminating VRI AND fuck our pensions also. Seems the city wants to have its cake and eat it too. They love that VRI is working and more officers are on the street, they just don't want to pay us O.T. to do IT now. They want it for straight time.. At least with Chuy we'll have new officers paying into the pension.
Guys, this is the most important issue right now. You idiots went for the carrot on the stick with dean and the contract, what will it take to wake up? Read, educate yourselves, listen and watch about this guy dean. Connect the dots. This next contract proposal you will see why everything in this current contract language is laid out. It will be a continuation off it but I'm afraid it's too late for us now.
Too many chiefs, not enough Indians, no good leaders left on the street. All retired. The 5 year wonder sgt.s and merit who can't lead, can't make a decision, don't monitor the radio, "real nice guys" though, I've heard it too many times. These young officers have no idea what it was.
10 hour days with 3 watches only! Better start times
Fix our furlough hours issue
Fix the BFD issue
O.T. Pays into pension and leave it at that? Do not increase our regular contribution
Residency
Start times by bid
Wake up FOP
We gave up furlo seniority. Now we are giving up a WATCH? Wake up people!!
I would love to see the activity of every one of you morons that like or would want the 10.5 hour day. Imagine when, after this debacle begins, the swiping in and out is implemented. And if you don't think that's next, you're an idiot.
For the cheap seats, in case you missed it:
Remember 40% to days, 60% to nights. DC gets 20% management for the day shift. So you need to be in the top 30% of your district to not be on midnights.
like my friend told me
North Side 14 year expert "I get what I want ALWAYS!!!! DUI expert"
sux it laszy asses with more time
How many officers will it take when 20 or 30 business blocks are being looted and torched? When the smoking blocks are in 4 or 5 different neighborhoods? Or will we all just watch them burn on live TV?
And then watch the taxpaying population of the city head for the distant suburbs as fast as they can dump their houses. Just like Detroit in 67, and Ferguson today.
I just hope I can get a flat screen and laptop before it does burn down
OT Anyone know why not a single person has gone to SWAT since the last selection class 10 month ago?
If this gets rammed down our throats then FOP needs to fix a few things. First, the start times. Second the V-days need to be increased. FOP should at the very least ask more more V-day hours like maybe 220 for starters or make it 25 V-days period! Then ask for another P-day or two or BFD's. We need to get something out of this. This will be very disruptive to working familes.
The only people the 10hr day will hurt is the beat guys who are required to cover the streets. The units will love it because nothing will change for them. They still will just work 2-5 hours tops and go home. Tact will be kinda the same as the units but work slightly longer. you will never hear a "unit" guy complain about the 10 hr day. hell, they would love a 12hr day schedule even more.
just voted at the library , not very crowded but the voters there had Chuy buttons on and Chuy bumper stickers . I know people in St Tommy Moore with rahm lawn signs , they are city workers being bullied but going for Chuy
Just as an fyi -- with the 10- hour day, if you look at ANY sunday - Saturday work week... one will be working 4 of those 7 days and be off 3 of those 7 days..
so its still 40 hours worked in 1 Sunday through Saturday work week...
just like the 6-2 schedule.. any Sunday - Saturday work week.. one would be working 5 days and be off 2. -- 40 hours
Emanuel told Dean not to endorse him so that Dean's popularity doesn't sink even faster.
Rahm needs Dean to push the 10 hour day and they figured he'd have zero credibility anymore with us if he endorsed Rahm.
Some cities (streamwood?)work a 12 hour day. Possible schedule was work mon, tue, off wed, th, work fri, sat, sun, then off mon, tue, work wed, th, off fri, sat, sun. Start times were 0600 and 1800. This seems better than 10.5 hour days. Maybe not better but less complicated than the schedules the city comes up with.
I'm in 5 and love the 10 hour day. So far has worked out great for my family/personal life. Too many complainers on this site who I'm sure don't even work in 005 or work in 005 and complain about anything and everything. I know most people on my watch had to get used to it but once we got use to it most enjoy all the time off. It's also tough for the dogs to claim they will get burnt out when they spend an out or two in the station, hour at various gas stations, two lunches every day... I guess handeling 10 jobs in a ten hour day is a real burn out for most....
Let me ask a stupid question to all that are crying about your work schedule any schedule, people that have kids need to provide for them when you have a schedule change, such as your day off cancelled, or an overtime arrest. I know most people who have babysitting issues don't really make arrests, you just collect your paycheck, if you have a spouse on this job too, well you need to work out the issues prior to either bidding on a watch ,etc. I had people tell me Sarge, I cant' lock this guy up, I have to get home, my wife has plans tonight or she has to go to work early, I had one guy duck from a detail because his wife needed to go to work, I asked him why he left and he said I get paid because we don't clock in, but she has to punch in on time. This is such a yuppie job now that if coppers didn't bury themselves in 2 car payments, a motorcycle note and a big mortgage then your wives could stay home and take care of the kids while you work a little bit more to make ends meet. What happened to the good old days when men were men and worked 2 or 3 jobs to take care of things.
The ten hour days work well for the detective division it really managed to cut down overtime. The start time often sucked. Detectives have a little more freedom of how they work and most make it work for them.
I cant see this working well in patrol.
Anonymous said...
The 10 hour scheduled is already in your FOP book and has been for years. All you have to do is look to see how it works. Just take your current day off group and put a 7 in front of it. Bingo, that was easy.
Depending on how you pick your furlough, you may lose a day or two. However if you pick it correctly you will probably gain a day or two. Remember you have either three or four days off in a row every week instead of two.
Most will actually use MUCH LESS comp time on the 10 hour scheduled. Depending on the calender year, you end up with an average of 50 additional days off each year. In the past two years I have used 0 ZERO comp time. And you still get to sell it all back!!!
Imagine what you can do with 50 additional days off each year. That is 50 more days you do not have to get up, get dressed and go to work and deal with all the Bull Shit.
3/31/2015 09:23:00 AM
Please somebody get this person off the blog. They are actually making sense. (please note sarcasm)
On a serious note I don't understand why anyone would object to working a extra hour a day so that you can have 3 or 4 days off in a row. This is not a 9 to 5 job.
vote no on the ten hours vote yes for 5-2/5-3 8hr shift 06 6-3 8hr shift
JUST A THOUGHT
How come the papers outright lie about rahm being up huge in polls? Who do they poll? Let's guess the 1% people I have talked to and there are many all say they are voting for chuy Garcia, maybe rahms paying off pollsters?
Off topic
Lt. List came out. Congrats Giambrone! One good guy...
Anonymous said...
OT: Why was McCarthy at the graduation of 111 new recruits on Monday? The man is on the medical and hasn't been at work since before his wedding on New Years Eve. Something doesn't smell right. The man is making 260,000 to go to police graduations? How do I apply for that job?
3/31/2015 08:55:00 AM
All the shit that is wrong with this job, city, country and this is your beef?
Stroke
You will use less time due , 10 hr day is like working a part time job . Rahm opened four parent peace centers today .
Anyone know the location in Jefferson park neighborhood
guys from 005 should submit bids next month whether or not the city has any openings.
Mr. Superintendent, I know you don't take any advise or information from your servants, but I thought I would give it a shot.
I've been a Sgt for a long time. I used to have a sector and a group of officers that worked together in that sector. We knew who was who and we kept an eye on the bad guys. We had a Watch Commander that we all answered to and this chain of command was enough.
Now, the cars get switched all the time. We have the Sgt of the day that is "in charge" and no one is very clear on what their responsibility is. We have been told not to lock up bad guys unless we have to because their aren't enough coppers out there. That, and they want the money. I believe the not enough officers because there is no one to back anyone up. The coppers don't want to get hurt without help, so there is significantly less work getting done. But I am sure your contact cards are plentiful. That's not helping your rising crime stats though, is it?
We have no Sgts to watch or help the officers we do have. You have created so many spots outside patrol that there is no supervision out here. That was a big part of coppers learning the job, but I guess if they aren't really working they aren't learning anyway. The DSS idea is ludicrous. I get along with all my fellow Sgts, but things don't get done, just put off. We had one bad guy and he made things impossible. Thank goodness he went of to one of your Units, All it took was one bad Sgt to ruin the Watch. That wouldn't happen with a Watch Commander.
Well, thanks for not listening. You are a terrible Superintendent. Just thought I should let you know.
I'm confused.
No keeses for me!!!!
OT: Why was McCarthy at the graduation of 111 new recruits on Monday? The man is on the medical and hasn't been at work since before his wedding on New Years Eve. Something doesn't smell right. The man is making 260,000 to go to police graduations? How do I apply for that job?
Enough already with the "he's been on the medical" schtick.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
OT--
Good news. Boston copper shot in traffic stop doing better, off critical list, will have surgery to remove bullet from neck, expect to take him out of intensive care soon.
Guy caught a .357 slug under the right eye. Miracle he's alive.
---------
Thanks. Good news, for a change.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
OT: Why was McCarthy at the graduation of 111 new recruits on Monday? The man is on the medical and hasn't been at work since before his wedding on New Years Eve. Something doesn't smell right. The man is making 260,000 to go to police graduations? How do I apply for that job?
3/31/2015 08:55:00 AM
Assuming you're the police, use your powers of reasoning. He was told to go on the medical, enjoy his time on the medical, maybe shop for a new job on the medical, and keep his phone handy. Once in a while, Rahm tells him where to be, when, and for how long.
When Rahm says 'jump', he jumps. He is employed only until after the election, no matter who wins.
God, issues like this just make me hate Rahm all the more. Throw that bum out!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
vote of no confidence for Dean
Might as well be a fair share member and keep what little money you can
FLOP is not a BENEFIT
3/31/2015 05:09:00 AM
+++++++
Thanks for you input. Please become a fair share member. Go work the street w/o legal defense.
Your a mush.
"The Sgts Union and Sgts in 005 are against the 10hrs."
The Sgts in 005 voted in favor of 10 hour days....
Does the order also have McNumbnuts quote "get on board with it or get outta the way" in it?
Rahm and McNumbnuts are the epitome of arrogance by shoving this down their first responders throats even though the overwhelming majority of us have serious issues with this schedule.
Those two dickweed's couldn't care less what we think or how we feel about the schedule.
OT: Why was McCarthy at the graduation of 111 new recruits on Monday? The man is on the medical and hasn't been at work since before his wedding on New Years Eve. Something doesn't smell right. The man is making 260,000 to go to police graduations? How do I apply for that job
Rhama Mayoral photo op
OK I'm a retired guy and haven't seen the order. Any chance you can post a link or post it here. Because I do have to say that what you are posting just doesn't sound right and I would love to read it in context.
That said FSLA states that anything over 40 hours worked (don't yell at the computer it has been ruled that we don't work lunch hours or 15 minute personals)is compensable by time and half. Arbitrators and the Federal government have ruled that the work week SHALL be 7 days. The city has tried many times to bend the work week to suit their situation and lost. SO I think that something is very wrong here and it is either you SCC or the order. And admittedly maybe someone from the FOP should address this soon.
if there were 3 watches i say ok. this schedule with 2 watches sucks ass. no fricken way
Listen people.......I have 14 years on. I've done every schedule possible on this job
So in 14 years you have worked every possible schedule? Great statement. Did you work pre union contract? NO Did you work when they dept could change your day off group? NO Did you work anything pre 2001? NO Stop taking like you got 35 years on the job bitch. If you had a wife and 2 kids you would never want the 10.5 work schedule.
Now go hide in your moms basement, I bet you go around saying you are the REAL police too. You worked every schedule, give me a break.
Listen people.......I have 14 years on. I've done every schedule possible on this job......the most recent I worked were the now 4-2, before that 6-2, before that 12 hr days on a detail. I work in 005 and now experienced the 10 hr day. With everything you LEARN to adjust and I love it now. If they told us we are going back to 4-2 schedule MANY of us would be upset. The only mouths u people are hearing from is the 5% that had issues (child care) and now flood this blog with BS. The days off are great. U literally can take 1 comp time day and basically have a baby Furlo when ever the 4 days come. That's 5 days to go and do anything. As for time for working out......you FIND time. It's not that hard, u find the time. 005 is considered the guetto so for the crybabies in 010, 011, 015, 007, 006.........think about how much time u actually "work" for the city in 8.5 hours......now just add 2 more hours of "free time".
Gee, did I miss the gentrification of yuppie enclave 006th district? Um, yeah, THAT IS the ghetto, hair gel.
Less time a day but more days AT WORK is far worst than few hours more but LESS days AT WORK.
Hey- brain trust, there's a LOT more than 5% with childcare issues. The only ones who actually like this are you young single hard chargers.
A rumor that LT's were made recently? Just asking, thanks.
Question- how did this trial program start? Seems to me most of us really liked the 4-2? Wasn't a contractual issue, didn't hear complaining... Is this just the City getting the union to push a City initiative? IF SO... No confidence vote in short order.
Someone said that the people complaining are the ones with child care issues? Well yes my wife and I are both the police! Child care is an issue and will become a bigger issue for us! Will the city make some kind of consession for married police officers? Will the city start to pay us for the OT we already work? Anything over 40 hours is ot!!! But the city does not see it that way.
OT How is it that the Superintendent merit promotes Sgt. E McK to Lieutenant when she is to retire in 1 and 1/2 years, and she is facing 20 day suspension for losing 2 guns, 2 police radios, a department laptop with direct access to Clear, a police department I-Pad for direct viewing of Pod cameras and the complete written operations plan for a secret police operation???? Her explanation was at best ridiculous and certainly a rule 14 violation. Talk to anyone in 189, she is the most incompetent sergeant there? McCarthy, what are you thinking? Don't you vet these people?
How about the 4 ten hour days a week? Did people like that? I thought that went over well. No matter what I believe this new 10 hour day will not last. Everyone just be safe.
Before this is over the definition for a work week will be changed to fit their agenda,whatever it is ,it basically sounds like screw the police,and we don't give a £¥€¥!! Time for attorneys and federal law suits! If they could make you work for free they would make it a law,a form of slavery.
Listen people.......I have 14 years on. I've done every schedule possible on this job......the most recent I worked were the now 4-2, before that 6-2, before that 12 hr days on a detail. I work in 005 and now experienced the 10 hr day. With everything you LEARN to adjust and I love it now. If they told us we are going back to 4-2 schedule MANY of us would be upset. The only mouths u people are hearing from is the 5% that had issues (child care) and now flood this blog with BS. The days off are great. U literally can take 1 comp time day and basically have a baby Furlo when ever the 4 days come. That's 5 days to go and do anything. As for time for working out......you FIND time. It's not that hard, u find the time. 005 is considered the guetto so for the crybabies in 010, 011, 015, 007, 006.........think about how much time u actually "work" for the city in 8.5 hours......now just add 2 more hours of "free time".
Less time a day but more days AT WORK is far worst than few hours more but LESS days AT WORK.
I'm sensing sarcasm but if you're serious, there are a lot of p.o.'s with kids. Thanks for telling us to go pound sand.
The current 25 furlough days or 200 hours is under the old 8 hour day rule. (200 divided by 8 is 25) Now that we work 9 hour days it should have been adjusted to reflect 25 furlough days right? But guess what it wasn't was it.(200 divided by 8.5 is 23.5 days) And if we go to ten hour days you will now get 20 furlough days. (200 divided by 9.5 is 21 days)Grab a calculator and do the math yourselves.
3/31/2015 09:36:00 AM
you made sense up to the 200/9.5=21.... where do you get the 9.5? the 10 hour schedule is actually 10.5 (1/2 hour unpaid lunch)
The current 25 furlough days or 200 hours is under the old 8 hour day rule. (200 divided by 8 is 25) Now that we work 9 hour days it should have been adjusted to reflect 25 furlough days right? But guess what it wasn't was it.(200 divided by 8.5 is 23.5 days) And if we go to ten hour days you will now get 20 furlough days. (200 divided by 9.5 is 21 days)Grab a calculator and do the math yourselves.
3/31/2015 09:36:00 AM
Absolutely. How difficult would it have been for FOP to simply follow the contract and count a day as a day, whether it's v-day, bfd day or p-day. A day is a day. How our hard fought days got dimisnished into hours based on a schedule we did not chose but one that was chosen for us, is straight bs. The FOP does NOT do anything to hang on to our contractual benefits nor do they work on officers behalf to have better work conditions. Instead they don't include this 10 hour stuff in our contract then a couple weeks after contract is done, announce it. S-I-C-K of the bs.
The only people the 10hr day will hurt is the beat guys who are required to cover the streets. The units will love it because nothing will change for them. They still will just work 2-5 hours tops and go home. Tact will be kinda the same as the units but work slightly longer. you will never hear a "unit" guy complain about the 10 hr day. hell, they would love a 12hr day schedule even more.
3/31/2015 03:46:00 PM
Not true. Leave the 4/2 schedule. 10 or 12 will suck. They can keep the extra day off lollipop. Don't want it.
As a wife of a PO in 005, I love this schedule.
Sgt EMcK must have a big glass of juice on some very big people to get promoted
The LAPD compressed work schedule is available for many patrol and special assignment units. Officers who work on compressed schedules work the same number of hours but can have more consecutive days off, by working longer days. Depending on assignment, available schedules include three 12-hour days and four 10-hour days.
So there you have it two work shifts to choose from fof whole department. A Dept equal in size and calls for service, without a winter to slow things down.
Everyone is bitching about 10hr days, try working12hr days like LAPD. They have been doing this compressed schedule for about 8yrs. I have a buddy who works there and patrol likes the 10hr days. Maybe CPD should look at there schedule and start times and pilot that.
FLOP is not a BENEFIT
3/31/2015 05:09:00 AM
+++++++
Thanks for you input. Please become a fair share member. Go work the street w/o legal defense.
Your a mush.
*****YOU Forgot to Sign it FLOP President
FLOPS a MUSH and Takes our Money for Nothing
Never had a legal problem in 10 yrs You must be the Real Po Po
The department has been f##ked up since steady watches! As dumb as you think rotating was it was fair. Being stuck on midnights for one year is healthy? Just like being stuck on afternoons in a fast district is good for you.
What happens when the manpower of 3 watches is reduced to 2 watches and you can no longer get all the time off you put in for??
Let me ask a stupid question to all that are crying about your work schedule any schedule, people that have kids need to provide for them when you have a schedule change, such as your day off cancelled, or an overtime arrest. I know most people who have babysitting issues don't really make arrests, you just collect your paycheck, if you have a spouse on this job too, well you need to work out the issues prior to either bidding on a watch ,etc. I had people tell me Sarge, I cant' lock this guy up, I have to get home, my wife has plans tonight or she has to go to work early, I had one guy duck from a detail because his wife needed to go to work, I asked him why he left and he said I get paid because we don't clock in, but she has to punch in on time. This is such a yuppie job now that if coppers didn't bury themselves in 2 car payments, a motorcycle note and a big mortgage then your wives could stay home and take care of the kids while you work a little bit more to make ends meet. What happened to the good old days when men were men and worked 2 or 3 jobs to take care of things.
I actually agree with you on the copper leaving early, but it all went downhill from there. There are so many things that are wrong with what you said, I wouldn't even to know where to start.
Everyone needs to make the decisions that are best for THEIR family. You're ridiculing people because their wife works? I'd love to grab a bag of popcorn and hear your life story because it must be a doozy. SMDH
P.S. Those days when men were men? They're gone. Just like this job, adapt or die.
If it ain't broke,don't fix it! Too many problems with the 10.5 hr schedule.If Rahm,McCarthy,and Dean Angelo want this 10.5 hr schedule that tells you that it's fu#ked up. Only a true soft as puppy shit goofball would want this 10.5 hour schedule..
Please somebody get this person off the blog. They are actually making sense. (please note sarcasm)
On a serious note I don't understand why anyone would object to working a extra hour a day so that you can have 3 or 4 days off in a row. This is not a 9 to 5 job.
3/31/2015 05:29:00 PM
People I actually talked to, not just on the blog say it is the starting times they do not like. Not extra days off. No one is addressing that issue on here.
Anonymous said...
Let me ask a stupid question to all that are crying about your work schedule any schedule, people that have kids need to provide for them when you have a schedule change, such as your day off cancelled, or an overtime arrest. I know most people who have babysitting issues don't really make arrests, you just collect your paycheck, if you have a spouse on this job too, well you need to work out the issues prior to either bidding on a watch ,etc. I had people tell me Sarge, I cant' lock this guy up, I have to get home, my wife has plans tonight or she has to go to work early, I had one guy duck from a detail because his wife needed to go to work, I asked him why he left and he said I get paid because we don't clock in, but she has to punch in on time. This is such a yuppie job now that if coppers didn't bury themselves in 2 car payments, a motorcycle note and a big mortgage then your wives could stay home and take care of the kids while you work a little bit more to make ends meet. What happened to the good old days when men were men and worked 2 or 3 jobs to take care of things.
3/31/2015 05:09:00 PM
FU "Sarge"!! You probably never worked a full day ever
What was wrong with 3 8 hour shifts ? 24 hours in a day? 3 8s works for over 150+ years, why fix it?
There's nothing wrong with the 3 8hr shift schedule. The city is not trying to fix it. What they are doing is trying to squeeze as much dollar savings out of this so Mayor Rahm, a.k.a. Emperor Nero, can use the money saved and put it into his budget (at least on paper) and brag on how he's saving the fine citizens of Chiraq money while not raising taxes.
Someone said that the people complaining are the ones with child care issues? Well yes my wife and I are both the police! Child care is an issue and will become a bigger issue for us! Will the city make some kind of consession for married police officers? Will the city start to pay us for the OT we already work? Anything over 40 hours is ot!!! But the city does not see it that way.
3/31/2015 11:25:00 PM
__________________________________________
Sounds like a "child care" issue that will require "child care"......start screening and asking people like people do in the "real world"!!
And you guys are BOTH the police??? You can clearly afford it!!!
Being with my wife and kids is not "BS". I'm sorry you could not find anyone to love you. Or maybe your business does not work. Not my problem, really. But being around to raise my kids right is. Find someone to love, because The Job wont
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Hey Genius... You are off MORE full days with the 10 he scedule. Maybe your family wants you gone at work but my family likes me home more!
So time to take a look at the BS positions like Crossing Guard Supervisor CAPS Office CMDRs in side folks
Spread the pain by Seniority
WHAT?
You want to do away with this fine tradition of catering to the chosen ones? A tradition that has been, well, around for as long as I have been on ( 25+ ).
Don't you know that they have FAMILIES! They must be able, at a moments notice, rush off to little Johnny's basketball game and cheer him on.
Will you deny them this right?
Isn't it enough that they must endure, no.....SACRIFICE the occasional weekend, dust off the duty belt and march off to some pre-planned event that, for some reason they didn't know about until notification and it just so happens that THIS WEEKEND is the most important in their lives and now they have to, dare I say, do without?
Shame on you!
/sarcasm
Section 20.1 — Work Day and Work Week.
All time in excess of the hours worked in the Officer’s normal work day and the normal work week
shall be compensated as provided in Section 20.2.
HA HA! Gotcha! Suckers.
Chicago - 2011. Rahm Emanuel is quoted, "We will fulfill our campaign promise to put 1,000 police officers on the beat and into our neighborhoods."
The majority of that promise came from disbanding units that were already on the streets and adding them to district numbers.
HA!HA! Gotcha Suckers!
To the 5:09pm sarge. I'm a vet and married with kids and a mortgage. No toys. No boat. No motorcycle. Nothing. I work my ass off on this job and lock people up nearly every night, and love every minute of it. My wife works her ass off every day. And we never bitch. So think twice before you stereotype the younger generation of coppers. A large majority of us are Iraq/Afghanistan vets that bust our ass out there locking shitheads up every day. We get that the city could give 2 shits. We attend fop meetings. We want the best for our families, they are the most important thing. We vote. We give to charity. We back each other up. Sure there are dumbasses. Lazy cowards who suck the tiny bit of moral we have left. But don't mistake the few morons for the majority. Do us a favor. Retire.
To the Veteran who posted at 12:34pm... Welcome home! The problem with this job is not enough veterans these days. At one time there was 6 thousand Vietnam Veterans on the job. Most of the bosses were WW11 and Korean war Vets who knew how to lead. Today the college educated are looking for a spot and want nothing to do with being the police. Higher education doesn't make a mamma's boy a leader!!! FOP is a lost cause, where the elected have found their spot.... Hang in there it can only get worse!!! Retired and missing the old days!,
Check out the Seattle Washington PD's work schedule . And they are hiring.
Retire and create your own shifts.
The 8, 8.5, 9, 10 hour day the city does whatever they want we have an extremely silent union leader, you never hear from him! At least "miss me yet" Mike Shields spoke out, and if he was not set up with "the letter" fiasco he would still be speaking up!
Solution is 5 day \ 8.5 hour schedule. Bid watch and Day Off Group by seniority. 28 years ought to get me days and weekends off. yes junior your day will come. SENIORITY!
Only management benefits from the 10.5 hour work day. Officers in units were the starting and quitting times are not strictly monitored won't mind because they won't be working a solid ten.
District officers will be working the full shift. Think it through. It is worse than the 6 day schedule.
How are people going to want to do court?
Relationships? Family?
Side jobs?
The hours blow...hard.
At least "miss me yet" Mike Shields spoke out, and if he was not set up with "the letter" fiasco he would still be speaking up!
4/01/2015 06:19:00 PM
How does he type while wearing the straight jacket? must be voice recognition
This conversion of furlough days to hours and adding c/u to make a working day is nothing but the city and department stealing money and time from po's.
This is part of your "give back" to the city and it's going to get worse when the 10hr day is foisted department wide.
The only thing that will increase with the 10 hr day is the following: obesity, Back problems, hemroids and blood clots!
you can bet ur life on it!
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