Traffic Review Board Follies
Anyone getting word about the massive number of "sustained" violations of procedure being handed out by the Traffic Review Board?
- SCC, You might start a post on this. The Traffic Review Board is clearing out a backlog of cases and sustained every single one for violations. They aren't telling coppers what the actual violation is, just citing a procedural error. Most of them are coming back sustained as "Admonishment," but no one knows what all these "admonishments" are going to add up to in the future. The message is clear - if you initially chase for Traffic, you are going to be cited for a violation, no matter how minor. Stop chasing.
Anyone?
Labels: info for the police, rumors
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
34 Comments:
If it's true, that's good news. No spar. No CR #. No counseling. Just and admonishment and it's over. It's been adressed and move on with your life.
YES, stop chasing!
The order is written in a way that you will always be wrong and always at fault.
I'll take the administrative hit. Illinois state law says I can chase. I am protected for the most part in civil court for chasing. If a supervisor lets it go I'll chase. If a supervisor says stop then I will stop. I'm not saying I'll be disobedient but if I get a beef because I broke administrative rules then so be it. If I end it up in civil court then again, so what? It's not the first and not the last. I've been in trouble before and I'm sure I will be again it's not the end of the world. It's funny how as you get older you really stop caring about taking time. Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life.
in my humble opinion there is no way to safely stop a car using another car, in an urban environment
Car chase, while providing an adrenaline rush are dangerous and a bad idea
That's a good way to deal with a backlog.
I will work as I drink "Straight, no chaser."
If you violate the policy you should be gigged. What's the debate?
Chasing someone who could slam into your son or daughter, mother or father or into anyone you care about is not worth it. Have you go getters lost your minds. Cars kill people. It is so not worth it.
The chase has been a part of human endeavor for tens of thousands of years. Why should it stop now. The prize goes to the fast and most persistent. To chase is part of our very genes.
People, including myself, have been telling people not to chase on this blog for years now. Certain morons with neanderthal thick skulls just can't control themselves and have an inability to think more than one step ahead in order to ascertain the possible consequences of their actions. These people are ruled by their emotions and tend to attempt to "creatively write" their way out of problems that they've created by not thinking their actions through before hand. This new department will not be kind to these thick skulls.
The co is so backed up,he was unable to explain why he is only up to 2013 on cases.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'll take the administrative hit. Illinois state law says I can chase. I am protected for the most part in civil court for chasing. If a supervisor lets it go I'll chase. If a supervisor says stop then I will stop. I'm not saying I'll be disobedient but if I get a beef because I broke administrative rules then so be it. If I end it up in civil court then again, so what? It's not the first and not the last. I've been in trouble before and I'm sure I will be again it's not the end of the world. It's funny how as you get older you really stop caring about taking time. Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life.
5/25/2016 01:15:00 AM
You are such a beat off stroke of a moron. You better go read the chase order because there are many situations where you're required to terminate a chase yourself and you can't use your supervisor as an excuse. On second thought, don't read the order. We need more morons like yourself off the job before you get someone killed.
Granted, I now would never chase but just got sparred from an incident two years ago. Hit a parked car while chasing a UUW offender. Dude caught and gun recovered. Ridiculous but point taken. Never in this lifetime or the next would I give chase ever again. This department provides ZERO support of its officers whether or not we're doing the very job we were trained in.
Chasing? stopped that years ago.
@0115 how do you not get it? Your employer doesn't want you to chase. Don't chase. That's great you don't care about getting days off but the family of the people who die in the chase do care about this stuff. Your the reason cops are our own worst enemies.
I'll take the administrative hit. Illinois state law says I can chase. I am protected for the most part in civil court for chasing. If a supervisor lets it go I'll chase. If a supervisor says stop then I will stop. I'm not saying I'll be disobedient but if I get a beef because I broke administrative rules then so be it. If I end it up in civil court then again, so what? It's not the first and not the last. I've been in trouble before and I'm sure I will be again it's not the end of the world. It's funny how as you get older you really stop caring about taking time. Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life.
5/25/2016 01:15:00 AM
Tell that to the coppers who are doing time for reckless homicide ! If you think you can control the outcome of a chase you would need to sit down and have a long think about it! The department will hang you !
1:15am...why the hell are you so bent on CHASING these assholes? It's not going to change a thing, whether you catch em or not. THey'll be back on the street in no time, and you'll be facing complaints, discipline and lawsuits. Where's the upside to that? Don't be stupid.
That's because Traffic is some 2 years behind in clearing the pursuit cases and they fear back lash from DOJ. They were told to "hurry up" and get these done. So they are.
If car chases become verboten, how long will it take the criminals to figure it out? Not very long. On the other hand car chases are dangerous and engaging in one in this day and age could be career ending.
Police are attacked by the media even when they're right. And you now have leadership that have no idea what the cop on the street is faced with.
I do not envy a Chicago Police Officer. Respect, yes. Envy, no.
Stay safe, somehow.
J.J.
I'll take the administrative hit. Illinois state law says I can chase. I am protected for the most part in civil court for chasing. If a supervisor lets it go I'll chase. If a supervisor says stop then I will stop. I'm not saying I'll be disobedient but if I get a beef because I broke administrative rules then so be it. If I end it up in civil court then again, so what? It's not the first and not the last. I've been in trouble before and I'm sure I will be again it's not the end of the world. It's funny how as you get older you really stop caring about taking time. Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life.
5/25/2016 01:15:00 AM
You need to be fired yesterday, you are the same person that makes it hard for the rule following police officers to due our jobs. Grandma always said "You can't fix stupid" it only takes once for you to break administrative rules to kill someone while chasing. You'll be charged with manslaughter, wise up and stop chasing......
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'll take the administrative hit. Illinois state law says I can chase. I am protected for the most part in civil court for chasing. If a supervisor lets it go I'll chase. If a supervisor says stop then I will stop. I'm not saying I'll be disobedient but if I get a beef because I broke administrative rules then so be it. If I end it up in civil court then again, so what? It's not the first and not the last. I've been in trouble before and I'm sure I will be again it's not the end of the world. It's funny how as you get older you really stop caring about taking time. Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life.
5/25/2016 01:15:00 AM
I was a 'true believer' for most of my career. I believed in rules and coloring inside the lines. As I got closer to retiring, I couldn't believe in a broken system any more.
Now, recently retired, I am kicking myself for being 'by the book'. I thought it was a calling, but it really IS just a job.
We get so entangled in the politics, the gamesmanship, the threats of discipline or loss of a car or a 'spot', but it really should be just a job that you do to the best of your ability for 8.5hrs a day and resume your normal life the other 15.5hrs.
I call total bullshit. I am a watch commander (yes I will use that term till I retire) for two officers involved in chases (different ones). In BOTH cases the Board said that they had followed Department Policy and that there should be a notation made in their performance evaluation file explaining same.
The floggings will continue until morale improves.
"Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life."
You're an idiot. You'll happily take 10 days no pay?
Long ago in a district far away, a deputy chief who sat on the traffic review board visited our roll call and said point blank - if you are involved in an auto accident while driving a department vehicle, while responding to calls with your emergency equipment activated, the accident will be ruled PREVENTABLE - meaning you caused it, you are responsible for it. Since then, I rarely ever use the emergency lights/sirens - with the exception of a 10-1. Other than that, 99% of the shit we respond to can wait for all the traffic congestion, road construction, clueless preoccupied pedestrians with their noses buried in smart phones and music devices crossing against the lights, and cleofus and ray ray doing the slow, heel-draggin', "aint nuthin' wrong with the sidewalk but i'm gonna make y'all stop for me and you gonna waits fo my ass cuz i gots the right o' way" street shuffle.
I'll take the administrative hit. Illinois state law says I can chase. I am protected for the most part in civil court for chasing. If a supervisor lets it go I'll chase. If a supervisor says stop then I will stop. I'm not saying I'll be disobedient but if I get a beef because I broke administrative rules then so be it. If I end it up in civil court then again, so what? It's not the first and not the last. I've been in trouble before and I'm sure I will be again it's not the end of the world. It's funny how as you get older you really stop caring about taking time. Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life.
5/25/2016 01:15:00 AM
This is the exact mentality this department relies upon to function beyond the almost paralyzing and oppressive rules and regulations they implement. The administration wants people like you to do just that - to be willing to go beyond the boundaries and scope of the same guidelines and orders they've created for your safety, the public's safety, and limitation of department's own liability. When you operate outside of those parameters and the end result makes the department look good, you tossed the dice and won. However, when the end result puts the department in a bad light or brings negative publicity, even when your efforts were in good faith, they will use those same rules and regs to dismantle you. And they are fully aware that there are plenty of officers who will still throw that rule book out of the window in the spirit of enforcing the law. This is what they have relied on for some time, even before the "Ferguson Effect" took hold. Now, it is a whole new ballgame with federal agents taking on the role of referee. You are no longer "just taking a few days" for indiscretions, you may be terminated or worse, prosecuted. The rule book everyone tossed out so casually before is now being scrutinized and strictly adhered by officers who now realize their careers, their reputations, and their lives depend on how well they follow its contents. And the citizenry has only just begun to realize just how regulated and tight those boundaries in which we must operate really are.
Anonymous said...
I'll take the administrative hit. Illinois state law says I can chase. I am protected for the most part in civil court for chasing. If a supervisor lets it go I'll chase. If a supervisor says stop then I will stop. I'm not saying I'll be disobedient but if I get a beef because I broke administrative rules then so be it. If I end it up in civil court then again, so what? It's not the first and not the last. I've been in trouble before and I'm sure I will be again it's not the end of the world. It's funny how as you get older you really stop caring about taking time. Taking 5 or 10 days just doesn't mean what it use to mean. Now I really don't care. I'll happily take the days off, after all it's only work, not life.
5/25/2016 01:15:00 AM
You need to be fired yesterday, you are the same person that makes it hard for the rule following police officers to due our jobs. Grandma always said "You can't fix stupid" it only takes once for you to break administrative rules to kill someone while chasing. You'll be charged with manslaughter, wise up and stop chasing......
5/25/2016 12:19:00 PM
I agree that chasing is not wise. But saying the officer will be charged criminally is a lie. Don't lie on or off duty, on or off paper. You can get fired for that. When has a police officer been charged criminally for a legitimate chase who acted within the guidelines of their department? If so, that officer will make some money and smile for years to come. Read the chase policy. We can only do what we are allowed. Don't lie to make your point. You are not 360. You can't do whatever you want.
Some shitbirds already know the chase policy and feel free to take off. In CA and even L.A. they are not afraid to chase even for "one baggers" or retail thefts. It a shame what this city has come to.
you are involved in an auto accident while driving a department vehicle, while responding to calls with your emergency equipment activated, the accident will be ruled PREVENTABLE - meaning you caused it, you are responsible for it. Since then, I rarely ever use the emergency lights/sirens - with the exception of a 10-1.
5/25/2016 06:37:00 PM
Pls don't dont do this. Read your orders. Priority 1 jobs are MANDATORY lights AND sirens. They will jam you on the back end too.
Anonymous said...
you are involved in an auto accident while driving a department vehicle, while responding to calls with your emergency equipment activated, the accident will be ruled PREVENTABLE - meaning you caused it, you are responsible for it. Since then, I rarely ever use the emergency lights/sirens - with the exception of a 10-1.
5/25/2016 06:37:00 PM
Pls don't dont do this. Read your orders. Priority 1 jobs are MANDATORY lights AND sirens. They will jam you on the back end too.
5/26/2016 12:02:00 AM
Sad but true. Too many coppers think they know what they are doing because that is how things used to be done. Please know the rules to the job. To the runnin gunnin plain clothes people SLOW IT DOWN, BE SAFE.
Anyone who chases for traffic is a complete fucking moron who deserves whatever he gets. Sure, maybe there's a gun or drugs in the car, but if all you have is traffic when you start the chase, you need to just forget it. Cars with guns, drugs, murderers, etc. pass by you every day. You can't catch them all. Get the ones you can without endangering yourself, your employment, your freedom, your money, or the public, with an unnecessary, reckless, idiotic, chase that violates department policy. Let the rest go. It's not the wild west. It's not the 80s or 90s. Chasing is dead. Most chases involve a stolen car. The ones that end up with the bad guy in cuffs usually end up with the car being completely fucked up, along with whatever parked cars and buildings are struck when they jump out to run. If my car was the stolen car, I'd prefer that it be recovered when it's parked with no chance of a chase or crash. I'd assume most rational members of the general public would agree. Stop chasing unless the guy shot at the police, tried to run over the police, or committed some heinous crime against your family. Nothing else is worth it. Wake up. If my car is ever stolen, and one of you brain-dead morons decides to chase the thief, and my car gets damaged, I'll be sure to do everything in my power to make sure you're held responsible for any wrongdoing. You violate department policy and my car gets damaged, prepare to pay, one way or another. You can't talk or write your way out of it, because I know the pursuit policy better than you. I'm not saying that out of arrogance. I'm saying it because you can't possibly understand the pursuit policy as well as I do and still decide to chase a hot car. That's a fact. So, roll those dice if you want, but you'll lose every time to someone who knows you shouldn't have been chasing in the first place, or that you should have self-terminated way before any crash could occur. Good luck if you choose to ignore common sense and continue chasing.
The orders are the orders, but use common sense when responding to "priority 1" jobs. Every well-being check is a 1A. Maybe about .001% of all well-being checks actually warrant a 1A response. Homeless woman sleeping on the sidewalk is a 1A. It absolutely shouldn't be. Just because there's a 1 there doesn't mean you can throw on the lights and siren and blast your way through intersections without a care in the world. Take your time when the actual description of the job suggests that you can or should take your time. No one is writing anyone up for not going lights and sirens to the homeless sleeper job. If they do, that's an easy one to write your way out of. Lights and sirens would be unnecessary, as would exceeding the speed limit. All those things would unnecessarily increase potential risks to yourself and the public, when there was no reason for you to race to the job like someone is being murdered. Priorities are assigned by call type. Call type is assigned by the call taker, who often picks the completely wrong type. Anyone who has called 911 knows how unintelligent the average call taker is. Don't let them decide how fast you drive. Domestics are 1A. I recently responded to a domestic where the boyfriend was on the phone arguing with his girlfriend. The sister called the police. The boyfriend was nowhere near the girlfriend, and made no threats or efforts to get to where she was. That was a 1A, simply because it was labeled a domestic disturbance. That should've been a "thanks for calling and let us know if anything requiring police response happens," but the call taker decided it was a 1A. In short, use your brain. A 1A isn't always a 1A.
Pls don't dont do this. Read your orders. Priority 1 jobs are MANDATORY lights AND sirens. They will jam you on the back end too.
5/26/2016 12:02:00 AM
This is straight from the G.O. in Dept directives GO3-03-02:
II. POLICY
The use of nonpursuit emergency vehicle operation by Department members is limited to the following:
A. The dispatch priority protocol as defined in the Department directive entitled "Radio Communications".
1. Priority 0 10-1, police or fire Emergency vehicle operation is justified
2. Priority 1 Immediate Dispatch Emergency vehicle operation is justified
3. Priority 2 Rapid Dispatch Emergency vehicle operation is discretionary
4. Priority 3 Routine Dispatch Emergency vehicle operation is prohibited
5. Priority 4 Administrative Dispatch Emergency vehicle operation is prohibited
The word "mandatory" is nowhere to be found in these orders. Notice the language they did use was "justified", meaning you have reason to use emergency equipment, however, the order states that even with lights/sirens you must observe traffic safety, yield right of way, maintain control of vehicle at all times and operate within limits of traffic and weather. Now when you are justifiably using your lights/sirens and become involved in an accident trying to clear an intersection they will not blame the jag off driver who was not driving defensively, ignoring your lights and sirens, distracted by the iPhone, music, food, bluetooth, etc., YOU will be at fault. Just another example of the department washing its hands of all the bad optics that are inescapable in this profession, using the officers as scapegoats for everything that didn't look great on the six o' clock news.
Blaime howard burton, he is the new lacky on traffic board
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