Rahm Loses Big
- Thanks to an apparent loophole in the contract Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s staff signed with the police sergeants union, a sergeant facing a year’s suspension over the handling of the David Koschman case can bypass the Chicago Police Board and have an arbitrator decide his punishment, a judge has ruled.
Cook County Circuit Judge Anna Helen Demacopoulos ruled Monday that the contract allows sergeants to have an arbitrator, rather than the police board, rule on any suspension of more than 11 days. The police board, whose members are appointed by the mayor, can not only uphold or dismiss disciplinary action recommended by the police superintendent, but it also can issue a harsher punishment.
On Tuesday, an attorney for Sgt. Samuel J. Cirone — one of six Chicago cops who faced firing or suspensions in the botched Koschman investigation — moved to dismiss the police board case.
This is rather a big deal - it takes the most politically charged cases out of the hands of Rahm's appointees - who will do exactly what benefits Rahm - and places it in the hands of an outside party not beholden to the Machine. It's brilliant, and it's amazing that only the Sergeants have it. Who negotiated that and why aren't they on the FOP payroll also?
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
93 Comments:
Shit, to me--- rhams dumb ass was the only person on the police board... thanks for the verification
Did some of the little angels from St. Sabina rob their fellow worker?
Cerone is toast and why isn't he at callback instead of staying in the detective division where he can't handle any cases because of his situation. Is he connected? Is it different rules for different people?
Every cop, every boss in that case plus Daley should have to look the mother in the face and tell her they had nothing to do with the cover-up.
On my suburban PD, we got that in our last patrol contract. Was a huge victory. But the Sgt.'s and Lt.'s are still at the whim of the Police and Fire Board. A Sgt. just got fired because of the Board rubber stamping what the upper echelon wanted. If he was able to have gone to arbitration instead, he likely wouldn't have been canned.
There are plenty of other things out Union negotiated in our contract that are not common knowledge. All the bs Ade got on this blog last contract talks was from people who didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Our members stood strong , voted the original contract down that tried to link a pension reduction on our contract. The final revision had us gain a few key details to discipline that were instrumental in getting it passed. People who actually paid attention to the details and not just % of our raises knew it was as good contract as we could get at the time.
In typical city fashion They tried to circumvent this ........... they currently have multiple cases pending as we speak against several Sgt's regarding discipline and the fact the city refuses to follow the contract regarding discipline. They are currently doing the same thing to the Sgt involved in terms incident in 008. It's a long road for these cases to play out ,but the contract is in their side and they will all ultimately win. It too bad blue shirts are too focused in their retro and percentages of raises instead of the finer details. Open your eyes and pay attention to this. Your administrative amd disciplinary rights will be at the forefront of this current contract. Don't F it up on greed.
We have meatheads negotiating our contract. High school grads only need apply along with the ex-president masquerading as a professor from the fake college. Trained negotiators.
And how do we know the arbitrator isn't in the city's pocket when its politically conveinent?
We don't have it because Dean was smarter than everyone and decided to do contract negotiating by himself.
Sgts. also get 6 personnel days, why don't we?
The FOP does have the provision in the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). The language is in the "Griv. Procedure" section of the CBA. The processes to resolve suspensions of 31 to 365 days are in Article 9.6.C.2., and Appendix Q of the CBA, which allows for an individual in the above listed situation to seek arbitration as an option. Most members never read the CBA in full, which is a pretty simple document to understand. It is paramount members read the CBA to have a firm grasp as to their rights. An educated consumer is a union's best customer. The example I present is analogous to a department member being responsible to apply the G.O.s, and S.O.s in their workplace practices. Department members apply orders everyday to workplace situations, which is comparable to individuals knowing their rights under the CBA. Should a member have any question regarding the CBA, please contact a CBU representative.
Who says arbitrators are truly "independent " ?
In this particular case, it's in the city's interest that those involved don't get hurt too bad and start singing.
Hey, why pay for a professional negotiator when you
got The Professor. I'm smart. I know about things.
(Yeah, I held the strings for years. Played both sides
of the fence. Actually considered myself an arbitration
expert. You gotta be good to be makin' double. Plus,
they gave me no heat over my disability. Over the years
those payments add up. And I could teach all I wanted.
They needed me and I needed them. I was at the top of
my game. In fact, I'm still gettin' payoffs, er miracles.
Knee healed up real good. Just in time to come back and
get a pension boost).
Media:
This case was not "botched"
All involved did exactly what they were expected to do
A pox on them all
So the sergeant that tried to fix a case for the last Mayor's cronies can't be punished by this Mayor. Why do I care?
Yea, yea, yea. Sgt ass. Is so great. 1st your president stealing money with his girlfriend, then agrees with wellness plan, then opens cost of insurance, shall I go on! Maybe next time sgts and Lts should wait till fop is done with contract first. This way we don't get thrown under the bus on our contract. I will agree fop we need a me to clause!
I like that..."high school grads"...the best officers I ever met who achieved high ranking positions only had high school diplomas....I myself laugh as I was making around 65g when attorneys came out of law school, owed thousands and was making 40g in SA office. Ended my career making 130g a year and had more brains than those that waisted their money in college. Not knocking education but don't knock the lack of either.
Sam...You've certainly have come a long way since you were a recruit in 018....What the hell happened to you. I just hope your juice can get you out of this, who ever that might be.....
The right for a member to file a griv. to challenge a suspension of 31 - 365 days via arbitration, instead of having the Police Board making a determination has been in the contract since the 2003 -2007 agreement. The right was negotiated by the law firm of Asher, Gittler and D'Alba. The FOP actually had this right before the PB&PA.
Why do any Police work they will let you go before you get to twenty years so you don't get a pension
Tim Novak is a moron who has no idea what he is writing or is being spoon fed BS by Rhams people. The Sgt contract has a clause that says suspensions over 30 days are cognizable by the police board. Ciirone accepted his suspension for 1 year then city attorneys decided to take the case to the police board knowing full well the police board Rhams political appointees would up the penalty and fire him. Cirone lawyer took the case to arbitration where the arbitrator ruled the one year suspension was lawful and the the arbitrator had authority. Lori lightfoot decided she wanted to hear this case anyway and the city attorneys prepared charges for ta police board hearing. Ciirone went to court to get the arbitrator award enforced. The city may appeal hopefully not. The PBPA fucked up haveing this in their contract. The FOP doesn't have this wording so suspensions over 30 days aren't heard by the police board which is something no one wants because it's a kangaroo court of political hacks. The city attorneys and Lightfoot tried to force this case to go to a police board hearing to fire ciirone. No one should want any case in front of the police board that is a one way street to getting fired. The FOP contract is clearly superior to the PBP- contract in this regard. Thankfully the arbitrator and court upheld the officers right to an outside unbiased non political appointee review of discipline.
I don't believe the sgt contract has this specific clause. It is all stemming from a legal decision from a prior case. Cirone's attorney must have done something right that the process has taken this long and now is being decided by an arbitrator. Now that this loophole is open you can bet the city will try and correct it in the next contract. I hate that fellow police say that Cirone is connected and being treated different. Anyone that has ever worked with him or under him know he is good police. Progressive disciplinary action should always prevail. Good luck Cirone and kudos to your legal council for doing a great job on your behalf. The deck is stacked against all of us and it's good to see us take a card or two away from a kangaroo court.
"Anonymous said...
There are plenty of other things out Union negotiated in our contract that are not common knowledge. All the bs Ade got on this blog last contract talks was from people who didn't know their ass from a hole in the ground. Our members stood strong , voted the original contract down that tried to link a pension reduction on our contract. The final revision had us gain a few key details to discipline that were instrumental in getting it passed. People who actually paid attention to the details and not just % of our raises knew it was as good contract as we could get at the time."
Don't kid yourself, this wasn't some clever nogociating on behalf of the union, this was an oversight by the Don O'Neill and the city and a major fuck up exploited by Cirone's attorney. The beautiful thing is now the city will have negotiate to get the loophole closed.
Arbitration of discipline is a mandatory subject of bargaining in Illinois and has bee for several years. Many agencies have this in their contracts now. What you need to avoid is the situation where discipline is implemented and then arbitrated, rather than having the arbitrator decide the date.
Anonymous said...
Cerone is toast and why isn't he at callback instead of staying in the detective division where he can't handle any cases because of his situation. Is he connected? Is it different rules for different people?
4/26/2017 12:15:00 AM
He's connected so fugetabouit...
I think the Lts and Capts also have it.
Because it's flop...
How his he stil in the D division??
Until Constantine "Dean" Andrews is "charged accordingly" then, and only then, will any justice be served. Dean Andrews can either give up who gave him the order to tank the Koschman case, or go to prison.
He is responsible for A/5 personnel forging police reports and giving the wink and a nod to the falsifying of numerous "clearing of crime patterns" in Area Five which led the city in clearance rates. Everyone who was there knew it was going on. Anyone who left a fingerprint on those clearance reports reports is in on it, and at some time received favors from Dean Andrews...or his henchmen.
Sam Cirrone was well liked, but he still has not given up what was going on there. Dean Andrews, How well did you cover your tracks...? Do you still trust your internal cabal of henchmen? Will the other detectives remain silent for much longer?
Dan Herbert, you are a good lawyer, but you may be defending police who walked in the "Dean Andrews gray Zone" (favors for loyalty and the like)
Let the light of day illuminate this cancer of CPD and then we can move forward...
This is just another example of why out contract negotiations are so vital! Kevin graham #1 should be the pension payments,we have over 250 coppers set to retire 15may17, the pension must be funded! Also Kevin why is it that fire pension stopped the gold braid ripped off and highest pension rank is lieutenant saving that pension fund millions,and allowing the lowly working firefighters as we have our 9161 (street coppers) hoping to get their due pensions! Also Kevin why is it that it your "anointed" to the mayors detail you get the huge pay boost (which is OK) but yet they get the commanders and lowest pension is sergeants pensions without taking any tests? I know its clout but that needs to be-looked into also and stopped! You beat the odds Kevin the "forgotten men and women" of CPD elected you now your move!
On another note these terror drills here in DC and New York massive nuclear drills:
http://wtop.com/national-security/2017/04/area-first-responders-prepare-complex-terror-attack/
http://www.fox5ny.com/news/250816355-story
Are stars aligning somewhere? We cannot even control our urban animals in chiraq the vast carnage everywhere wonder are the above preludes to a future event? We cannot even get our trained swat guys to an incident quickly as they have no vehicles to take home to be ready, but then again the mayor has destroyed so much,disobeying federal laws he really does not care unless he can fit the envelopes of cash in his pockets!Protect Blue!
(OT) So this pos judge is blocking the sanctuary city laws but yet paid barry obama over $200,000 typical anti-law and order democratic narrative:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2017/04/25/trump-sanctuary-city-law-blocked-judge-san-francisco-obama-donor-william-orrick
judge Who Blocked Trump Sanctuary City Order Bundled $200K for Obama
Anything on that 9th circus court is against law and order that circus should be abolished!
We should enjoy any situation that shows Rahm and his Administration for the incompetents that they are. However, before everyone gets too happy about all this; we must not lose sight of the fact that these Detectives and especially their Lieutenant, were willing to sacrifice their integrity, professionalism and even their careers to protect the Daley Machine. Have we forgotten the original file that went missing and then turned up in the Lieutenant's safe at home? How are these "Clouted" any different from the ones who get Merit Bumps or answers to exams? These coopers, even though they are our brothers, sold their souls to the "Mumbler", who these days supposedly cannot communicate verbally to testify. Personally, I thought he always had a speech impediment: "Dees", "Dems", "Dose", "Youse Guys." Be careful out there; remember these guys from Belmont & Western thought they had it made, because their "Clout" was the Mayor. Now look at them. Cops are always the most convenient Fall Guys. Baby "G"
Rahm is a turd in the punch bowl of life
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Every cop, every boss in that case plus Daley should have to look the mother in the face and tell her they had nothing to do with the cover-up.
4/26/2017 12:23:00 AM
--
really you think that case would have been charged? with witnesses saying Koschman was the aggressor? Are you stupid?
arbitration has proven to be fair for the most part. but fair does not necessarily mean more lenient.
They are saying there is a completely different investigation with some of those Supervisors involved with this. FBI is involved . Criminal investigation. Stay tuned for this one. If it's true it's unbelievable!
1233am must be one of those "highly educated" college grads from a "real" university huh? Worked wonders for you since you're on the same job and probably making a lot less than the "meatheads" you speak about. Mommy and daddy's money was well spent
The FOP fired the attorney who negotiated that for the Sgts, Tom Plienes....the Sgts were smart to get a real labor attorney on their payroll.
Angelo will go down as the worst FOP president in our history. Can't think of one positive thing he did. The most important thing is our pension and he did nothing to protect it. Without the pension we have nothing. It's shameful that it's even a topic. Shows you how politicians feel about their first responders. Without a happy and motivated police force who would want to live and work in Chicago?
Ohh, so Articles written clear as day and numbered in the contract are called loopholes now. Wow. The city will actually stop at nothing when it comes to wasting tax payers money. To actually challenge the arbitrators ruling in court is unheard of but expect more of it.
Depends where the Arbiter hangs his hat.
If he's Chicago - Cook Co affiliated it makes no difference.
If he's not, then he will be.
Crooked Lying Snake Rahm Emanuel has to make some points with the community whenever he can.
He wants and needs this made-up police corruption feather in the cap.
Deano did not want to make Rahm angry.
The Cleared/Closed reports are on the Suntimes website. I read the closing reports. Literally no narrative. When I worked in Area Five under Dean Andrews, you couldn't close out a Death investigation, or an Agg Batt (Unk offender)case without a long formatted narrative. Bar-None...This was a conspiracy from the get go.
Shame on you Dean Andrews...The missing and reappearing file tells a story. When will it see the light of day? When one of the accused officers tells of the pressure put on him by his superiors.
Anonymous said...
Cerone is toast and why isn't he at callback instead of staying in the detective division where he can't handle any cases because of his situation. Is he connected? Is it different rules for different people?
4/26/2017 12:15:00 AM
Oh man....you must live under a rock. His old man was a big boss and his brother-in-law is William Peterson of CSI fame. He own a condo within spitting distance of Wrigley (I can't afford that, can you?). Um, so no, he's not connected. lol
Contracts mean nothing and your Police Badges mean nothing to that tiny fucking midget.
How does Rahm lose big??? One of the cops who protected Shortshanks gets saved.
Not a cop but a white guy with clout punches someone, he dies, everyone in the group lies about it, the lineup is rigged, detectives hide the files, years later, special prosecutor who costs hundreds of thousands of dollars later convicts him. He gets personally escorted to County and then taken in a limo to Lake County where he is fed a different meal every night. And not one cop pays the price for this and you guys are happy about this? But a black or brown kid is a animal or a thug for getting caught with weed?
first off as a working non clouted cpd n vet I could give a flying f-ck about sam or his political clout sam as always been an arrogant pompous JO second its amazing that all those involved were either from Bridgeport or mt greenwood
The last contract was the worst ever. It fractured and pitted the members against each other. It took duty availability $ away from the new hire and gave it as a retro check to more senior members. It caused seniority to be diminished by making members bid by watch. The new healthcare tiers will nickel and dime you to death or cause for you to get a new doctor in a clinic..not a full healthcare facility. How about the retirement healthcare charade. A guy that has 20 years on the job and is 55 years old gets healthcare, but a guy with 30 years on and is totally maxed out who is 51 years old gets shit! Unreal...so we scrapped seniority and tenure for a piss ant retro check and a good furlo for Joe New Guy on the 3rd watch. Seriously, the contract was beyond damaging to our organization. And tell me why DEAN supported altering the PENSION shortage payments legislated to protect us from going belly up? Instead of paying the $540 million supplemental payment, the city is allegedly paying $250 million. Our pension funding is worse this year then last. Un fuggn real!
Rah Rah Rah! That's great for the sergeants union to have the foresight to implement this into their contract, but let's not let our thinking be clouded here. A MURDER was covered up for the Daley Crime Family with those involved thinking they would be rewarded by the powers to be. Instead they were tossed to the curb like a used condom. Arbitrator or police board, the sergeant will be fired. This isn't over yet by any means!
a big f-ckyou to both sam n dennis walsh you screwed over working non clouted officers and only took care of the politically connected
Rahm is a very sore loser.
4/26/2017 02:52:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
first off as a working non clouted cpd n vet I could give a flying f-ck about sam or his political clout sam as always been an arrogant pompous JO second its amazing that all those involved were either from Bridgeport or mt greenwood
4/26/2017 03:36:00 PM
--
What?
Sam is from northwest side and lives now in Lincoln park.
Walsh is from northwest side
Saleme is northwest side
Nick is from north side
Giegier is a northsider..
Good God, another low informed copper who is holding court and has NO ISEA what he is talking about!
Really dumb shit. The guys I know were all northsiders. Cirone doesn't have any political clout. He has his MBA from Kellog (Northwestern) and got it when I was working with him. Look his case close record up and you will see he was a good Det. and a good Sgt. maybe you find him pompous because because you are douche that nobody wants to work with. Funny thing is you wouldn't have the balls to say it to his face.
Anonymous said...
first off as a working non clouted cpd n vet I could give a flying f-ck about sam or his political clout sam as always been an arrogant pompous JO second its amazing that all those involved were either from Bridgeport or mt greenwood
Again,a line up was held by Yawger and the alleged offender came into the area with an attorney. The witnesses came in and no one including a witness who knew Vanenko from high school picked him.This equals no charges because the States Attorney didn't charge him. At the time of the incident on Rush st the witnesses lied and when the detectives interview them they lied again.The State denied charges so what don't you understand about it. But when the news media gets involved years later now its a big coverup orchestrated by the reporters so someone must go to jail so they bring in Dan Trout mouth Webb who is friends with Daley and gets the nephew 90 days in the can. There's the coverup. The deal was worked out after Webb made big money and threw the nephew in the barrel to make this go away. The news media wanted more so the police were next on the hit list including the beat guys who took the report and the dets O'Leary and her partner who got the job but were going on furlough. So the news media makes a deal out of that pushing that the bosses sent them on furlough but that was their picks. Total BS. So Sam signed a report and they want to suspend his or fire him. Again total BS so Rahm can say look what I did. I'm great. Sorry Mrs Koshman about your loss but when a 5-5 140 lb drunk picks a fight bad things happen. Especially when his friends who are with him are drunk and stupid and didn't get him out of there.
Hope Sam gets nothing out of this. Great Sgt and backs everyone up in good or bad times.Remember that when most Sgts and Lt's who begin worrying about loosing the job the minute they get promoted and will sacrifice you in a blink of an eye. So go out there and get the contact cards and gang dispersal's to make them look good and see how that works out for you when t goes sideways.
(OT) so President Trump has a "secret meeting" with senators and they leak:
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/senators-told-north-korea-nuclear-threat-urgent/
This sounds serious! Are we ready snowflakes?what if your cell phones go out that would be your major crisis correct?
.......condo within spitting distance of Wrigley......
Why would you want it anyway? Aren't you fed up with
the masses on your day job? Crowds.....you take 'em.
Rahm packed the police board with police haters, arbitrator is better
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Angelo will go down as the worst FOP president in our history. Can't think of one positive thing he did. The most important thing is our pension and he did nothing to protect it. Without the pension we have nothing. It's shameful that it's even a topic. Shows you how politicians feel about their first responders. Without a happy and motivated police force who would want to live and work in Chicago?
4/26/2017 11:57:00 AM
You are stupid. Do you honestly think any police force anywhere in the United States is happy and motivated. Did I mention that you are stupid? Cause you are. Wait til you see this new administration at the FOP screw everything up. Change for the sake of change is never a good idea and when this ship sinks, you'll be crying again.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Every cop, every boss in that case plus Daley should have to look the mother in the face and tell her they had nothing to do with the cover-up.
4/26/2017 12:23:00 AM
Get off your BS soapbox. There was no damn cover up. Check to see how many times the states attorneys office has charged anyone under similar circumstances. NEVER
Sorry Mrs Koshman about your loss but when a 5-5 140 lb drunk picks a fight bad things happen. Especially when his friends who are with him are drunk and stupid and didn't get him out of there.
4/26/2017 05:21:00 PM
Save your half-hearted, phony apology to Mrs. Koschman. Vanecko should have been sentenced to 30 years. Drunk or not, Vanecko knew the difference in size and weight between him and Koschman. He could have walked away, but no, he had to fist someone much smaller in stature. Vanecko is not a man. He was, and still is, a pos.
U shit talkers on here are complete morons. Don't u realize that a win for Cirone helps us all in this police hating environment ? Some of u will never be in his situation simply because u never do police work. 5% of the department does 90% of the work. Stfu and get out of the way.
And the cheaters are very quiet
Gene Williams met with each of them in small groups and told them to stick to their story.
If we break under pressure then we all lose. They win. I just want to be a part of the lawsuit because I paid 1200$ or more for a study group and I'm still a sergeant with integrity
Anonymous said...
Really dumb shit. The guys I know were all northsiders. Cirone doesn't have any political clout. He has his MBA from Kellog (Northwestern) and got it when I was working with him. Look his case close record up and you will see he was a good Det. and a good Sgt. maybe you find him pompous because because you are douche that nobody wants to work with. Funny thing is you wouldn't have the balls to say it to his face.
4/26/2017 05:14:00 PM
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen!!! He doesn't even have 20 years on the job yet and made sergeant in 2004. He could not have been a detective for that long to qualify as "great" sorry.
To be a merit sergeant in the D unit with under ten years on the job takes an incredible amount of clout. Noble couldn't even pull that shit off today.
Sam might be a good dude and good sergeant, but to claim is not HOOKED the fuck up is crazy. I would have no problem telling him that either.
Cirone not politically connected??? LOL. You must be one of the insider lackeys. Great Sgt in good times and bad??? LOL. Easy to do when you're in a protected click and do nothing other than look pretty in your pastel shirts and ties. Riddle me this, how much time did Cirone spend in patrol after making merit Sgt before getting ushered into the D-unit thanks to daddy's whack??? None!!! Once again, 2 sets of rules in CPD, REGARDLESS OF COLOR, one for the politically connected and one for those who are not. Truth hurts. CPD continues to be an embarrassment from the top down.
Maybe next time sgts and Lts should wait till fop is done with contract first.....
Maybe know what you're talking about first. Sgts didn't vote for the contract, went to arbitration.
Hey 5:21:00, no fix huh? Bull! Then why was Daley's old Chief ASA brought in to "run" the lineup? And his wife was "made" judge a few years later? And his daughter in law "made" judge after that?
Sam is very conniving and always has been. Looks at you with his Ricky Schroeder smile but has always calculated ways to fcuk people over. How many other Sgt have been to court on days as often as him........No One. He has been summoned to more cases than any other Sgt in history of the department. That's part of his wack......not testifying on the cases only collecting time and a half. Check conty court documents he doesn't testify. Only hangs out in office sucking coffee and spitting tobacco. Sam was chin deep in this cover up and the emails prove it. Looking for that lt bump and then exempt spot. You stupid If you don't know this or dumb to pretend not to. This too goes with all the false clearing rate area five had for years....talk about cover ups there are a few more that will be unleashed after a couple of dicks retire in May.
really you think that case would have been charged? with witnesses saying Koschman was the aggressor? Are you stupid?
4/26/2017 09:06:00 AM
Who exactly said Koschman was the aggressor? The Daley relative? The Daley friend? So, who are you calling stupid?
This hurt the Police Department. This hurt all of our reputations and helped push us into the world we live in today. The whole arrogant lot of them can go to jail for all I care. They did it all for themselves. Wake up.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not a cop but a white guy with clout punches someone, he dies, everyone in the group lies about it, the lineup is rigged, detectives hide the files, years later, special prosecutor who costs hundreds of thousands of dollars later convicts him. He gets personally escorted to County and then taken in a limo to Lake County where he is fed a different meal every night. And not one cop pays the price for this and you guys are happy about this? But a black or brown kid is a animal or a thug for getting caught with weed?
4/26/2017 02:52:00 PM
Not sure what the kid dying and black and brown kids have to do with this issue.
Also keep in mind that Vaneko accepted a plea deal. He never would have been found guilty either now or back in 2004. The Detectives did nothing that would have changed that. It was a crap case from the start. Check to see if anyone in Illinois has ever been convicted of murder in a similar case. They haven't.
It all comes back to Area Four Detectives. Smarter then everyone else, just ask them. They all want to be John Farrell but none of them Dean, Denis, Sam , Brian or Tom can't hold a candle to Farrell. As a matter of fact if you ask most Detectives they'll tell you these guys are the exact opposites. Arrogant sob's that have gone out of their way to screw Detectives. Farrell wasn't like that and tried to take care of everyone. They have fucked with Detectives careers because of their own egos, that's not being a good supervisor that's being a failure.
Actually don't want to see anything bad happen to them but Karma is a bitch.
to 04/27/17 1;20am amen brother you hit the nail on the head I remember sam when he was just a patrolman , taken care of since the get go never put in harms way, a big stroke cocky arrogant always bragging about his clout , as far as the perpetrators all big wack you venecko was from Bridgeport , the Higgins couple from mt greenwood they should had all stayed in mt greenwood gotten drunk and then killed somebody nobody who had cared, since I I live in Edison park I wouldn't had given a flying f-ck
really you think that case would have been charged? with witnesses saying Koschman was the aggressor? Are you stupid?
4/26/2017 09:06:00 AM
people like you continue to hold the line and blame the victim in this incident. But your argument/position flies in the face of an actual, credible and real investigation which resulted in a conviction and jail sentence. The real shame then followed as the convicted one was given special treatment so as to not hurt his sensibilities. The detectives did a horrible investigation that night and later. It is not defensible.
Everyone is calling you stupid. Even Koschman's friends originally said he was the aggressor. All this did was lose us a whole lot of talented supervisors. U notice the big increase in homicides and shootings over the last two years. We've lost dozens of top supervisors over the last 5 years. The ones running the dept now have no clue.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen!!! He doesn't even have 20 years on the job yet and made sergeant in 2004.
He could not have been a detective for that long to qualify as "great" sorry.
To be a merit sergeant in the D unit with under ten years on the job takes an incredible amount of clout. Noble couldn't even pull that shit off today.
Sam might be a good dude and good sergeant, but to claim is not HOOKED the fuck up is crazy. I would have no problem telling him that either.
4/26/2017 11:32:00 PM
Post your name if you have no problem telling him that. And BTW it's easy to check his time on the job. 25 years now so had 12 years on when he made sgt.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Rah Rah Rah! That's great for the sergeants union to have the foresight to implement this into their contract, but let's not let our thinking be clouded here. A MURDER was covered up for the Daley Crime Family with those involved thinking they would be rewarded by the powers to be. Instead they were tossed to the curb like a used condom. Arbitrator or police board, the sergeant will be fired. This isn't over yet by any means!
----------------
For the last time it's not a murder! It's a involuntary manslaughter at best. If that pussy vaneko just stayed on scene- there would've have been less headaches all around. PS-good luck Sam.
To 12:11 pm sticking up for the clout baby. Do you know or remember HOW many years he had on when he made detective. I think it was around three. Ended up in area five eventually wearing those gq suits while all the veterans would remind him that his first foot chase or bad knock on a door would end his expensive taste. Got partnered with Chris Cato rode his coattails to the hilt then made sergeant. Someone correct me if I'm COMPLETELY wrong.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
To 12:11 pm sticking up for the clout baby. Do you know or remember HOW many years he had on when he made detective. I think it was around three. Ended up in area five eventually wearing those gq suits while all the veterans would remind him that his first foot chase or bad knock on a door would end his expensive taste. Got partnered with Chris Cato rode his coattails to the hilt then made sergeant. Someone correct me if I'm COMPLETELY wrong.
4/27/2017 07:37:00 PM
COMPLETELY WRONG! You're such an idiot. It' was not Area 5 and it's Kato not Cato. Check these new classes of dicks coming out of the academy. Plenty have just 3 years. Btw only ones who wore suits worked Hollywood. Now go do your homework and try again.
Rahm never loses, no matter how bad things get for the civilized non criminals, rahm is always there to fuck someone over.
If Vanecko stays on scene maybe nothing happens, funny thing though no video on Division street, there was video in and outside of every bar on that street. So maybe Koschman wasn't the aggressor or maybe Vanecko wasn't the offender.
Post your name if you have no problem telling him that. And BTW it's easy to check his time on the job. 25 years now so had 12 years on when he made sgt.
He hasn't been a sgt for 13 years, but he does have more then 20 years. He is a nice guy,but he already had two bites at the apple. Also, the second bite at the apple came after the cover up.
The Venecko kid never lived in bridgeport, they have always lived in Saugenash. The sister of the Daley boys moved out of Bridgeport as soon as they got married, the only sister to return was the Thompson's because she got divorced, but the Veneckos never lived in bridgeport, but I will say the Vaneckos are some serious self centered assh(*les.
All the CLOUT babies were looking for the next bump in rank. Dean was made chief of dicks just before the hammer fell. Joe was supposed to be in line for deputy chief of the D or of organized crime. Dennis was getting area Central, Sam was getting lt, gigler was getting straight and Nicky was up for three strips. Nicky still telling people that as soon as this cools down he Is still getting Sgt.. Brian wants that Lt so bad that his yelling at dicks has earned him a spot in the final eight of The Voice. Polohusky is out sporting non IDOC threads and looking for a book deal. Pena soaped that kids mouth and still every bump up the ladder was merit. She can't and won't say what merit action she did much less for the five or seven bumps she got. Her two old partners Carlos tellez and jimmeny sanchets (I'm supermeng ) all merit all the way. All worked area 4 for that ass face the screaming scull. All cover up graduates from Area 4. The bull crap lead homicide instructors were all from Area 4. They brought all the v.c. supervisors to area North who worked in Area 4. Check those facts .......Mike drop.
Dyla Hata.
Hey 4/26/2017 05:21:00 PM, is it true that when the daley relative came to the lineup with his lawyer he had a different haircut and different style clothes?
No truer words have ever been spoken. 5% is so accurate.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
U shit talkers on here are complete morons. Don't u realize that a win for Cirone helps us all in this police hating environment ? Some of u will never be in his situation simply because u never do police work. 5% of the department does 90% of the work. Stfu and get out of the way
Anonymous Anonymous said...
really you think that case would have been charged? with witnesses saying Koschman was the aggressor? Are you stupid?
4/26/2017 09:06:00 AM
people like you continue to hold the line and blame the victim in this incident. But your argument/position flies in the face of an actual, credible and real investigation which resulted in a conviction and jail sentence. The real shame then followed as the convicted one was given special treatment so as to not hurt his sensibilities. The detectives did a horrible investigation that night and later. It is not defensible.
4/27/2017 10:06:00 AM
---
I am the original poster. I have been a detective for a long time ... I have never seen ONE case charged where witnesses stated the dead guy was the aggressor. Not ONE. Show me ONE, in the entire city of Chicago ... EVER, and I'll shut up.
Even Daren O'Brien, the head of Felony Review at the time came out straight up after all this went down and said "We don't charge cases with negative information," or words to that effect. That means they don't charge cases where there's any hint the dead guy started it. He said that straight up. Kudos to him for having the balls. He's right. Every detective who's heard a 2 minute statement of the facts says the same thing - "You'll never get charges."
I know most everyone involved in this - I had no involvement. I read most of the Webb report. (Every Det./Patrolmen should read it). I have a huge problem with the laughably sloppy instruction from Cirone and Dean who said to put that last sentence in about witnesses saying something like "Koschman started it" - or something like that. Webb pointed out that those words (I forget the exact words) were never documented to have been said by any witness. Webb was 100% correct. It was sloppy. But that being said, even if this was done straight down the line (that stupid statement deleted), Vanecko would not have been charged. Period. Even if every witness was honest and Vanecko was picked in a lineup, and Vanecko admitted everything.
That stupid sentence was found in an E-Mail, I believe from SC to JG. The grand jury got it through a subpaena I believe. They got personal E-Mails too. That's why every cop should read Webb's report. JG put it in his closer. It was embarassing. (JG is a great guy. Some said he was a kiss ass but I wouldn't know about that. I had never heard a bad word about him. Always said hello.) So I am with you on the stupid writing in the report. NS was JG's partner and he just got roped in and didn't write the closer (the second closer where it was re-investigated).
Missing file? That's a whole different thing. And I'm with you on that too. I didn't know DW at all. Didn't care for him from what I saw.
Was there a coverup by DW? Maybe. Maybe. But no one set a murderer free. He would have be RWOC'ed. Done deal.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
really you think that case would have been charged? with witnesses saying Koschman was the aggressor? Are you stupid?
4/26/2017 09:06:00 AM
people like you continue to hold the line and blame the victim in this incident. But your argument/position flies in the face of an actual, credible and real investigation which resulted in a conviction and jail sentence. The real shame then followed as the convicted one was given special treatment so as to not hurt his sensibilities. The detectives did a horrible investigation that night and later. It is not defensible.
4/27/2017 10:06:00 AM
---
I am the original poster. I have been a detective for a long time ... I have never seen ONE case charged where witnesses stated the dead guy was the aggressor. Not ONE. Show me ONE, in the entire city of Chicago ... EVER, and I'll shut up.
Even Daren O'Brien, the head of Felony Review at the time came out straight up after all this went down and said "We don't charge cases with negative information," or words to that effect. That means they don't charge cases where there's any hint the dead guy started it. He said that straight up. Kudos to him for having the balls. He's right. Every detective who's heard a 2 minute statement of the facts says the same thing - "You'll never get charges."
I know most everyone involved in this - I had no involvement. I read most of the Webb report. (Every Det./Patrolmen should read it). I have a huge problem with the laughably sloppy instruction from Cirone and Dean who said to put that last sentence in about witnesses saying something like "Koschman started it" - or something like that. Webb pointed out that those words (I forget the exact words) were never documented to have been said by any witness. Webb was 100% correct. It was sloppy. But that being said, even if this was done straight down the line (that stupid statement deleted), Vanecko would not have been charged. Period. Even if every witness was honest and Vanecko was picked in a lineup, and Vanecko admitted everything.
That stupid sentence was found in an E-Mail, I believe from SC to JG. The grand jury got it through a subpaena I believe. They got personal E-Mails too. That's why every cop should read Webb's report. JG put it in his closer. It was embarassing. (JG is a great guy. Some said he was a kiss ass but I wouldn't know about that. I had never heard a bad word about him. Always said hello.) So I am with you on the stupid writing in the report. NS was JG's partner and he just got roped in and didn't write the closer (the second closer where it was re-investigated).
Missing file? That's a whole different thing. And I'm with you on that too. I didn't know DW at all. Didn't care for him from what I saw.
Was there a coverup by DW? Maybe. Maybe. But no one set a murderer free. He would have be RWOC'ed. Done deal.
To 827pm. Ok so it was area 4 not 5. He still made Dick in that era which was a lot more harder than it is now. No comparison. He was partnered with Kato he rode his coattails and he still wore fancy suits. Its funny the onlythings you dispute is Iago spelling and area 4 not five. Don't need to do any homework cuz those fakeass diplomas are only good for wiping your A--.
o 827pm. Ok so it was area 4 not 5. He still made Dick in that era which was a lot more harder than it is now. No comparison. He was partnered with Kato he rode his coattails and he still wore fancy suits. Its funny the onlythings you dispute is Iago spelling and area 4 not five. Don't need to do any homework cuz those fakeass diplomas are only good for wiping your A--.
The guy did work with Cato, but the guy wore kacky pants and a white or blue shirt. You have him confused with the other copper who carried the 2 guns with ivory handles, I can not remember his name. Sure he should not of had 2 bites of the Apple but that is why the department is so fu=-ed up, the same people keep getting merit promoted. He was not a bad detective and he isn't a bad guy. You know if you had the clout you would have taken the 2 bites out of the apple also.
Because that is one less day that you have to deal with them
Until Constantine "Dean" Andrews is "charged accordingly" then, and only then, will any justice be served. Dean Andrews can either give up who gave him the order to tank the Koschman case, or go to prison.
He is responsible for A/5 personnel forging police reports and giving the wink and a nod to the falsifying of numerous "clearing of crime patterns" in Area Five which led the city in clearance rates. Everyone who was there knew it was going on. Anyone who left a fingerprint on those clearance reports reports is in on it, and at some time received favors from Dean Andrews...or his henchmen.
Sam Cirrone was well liked, but he still has not given up what was going on there. Dean Andrews, How well did you cover your tracks...? Do you still trust your internal cabal of henchmen? Will the other detectives remain silent for much longer?
Dan Herbert, you are a good lawyer, but you may be defending police who walked in the "Dean Andrews gray Zone" (favors for loyalty and the like)
Let the light of day illuminate this cancer of CPD and then we can move forward...
Quit trolling with this post who ever you are..... A real cop wouldn't write stuff like this on a post no matter how much they disliked another officer.... CORRECT ?????
sam was struck pure and simple so was that other a-hole dennis walsh they took of the politically connected n the dollies
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