So....Not Cops?
- Aviation Commissioner Ginger Evans on Thursday expressed her “extreme regret” about viral videos of a bloodied passenger being dragged off a United Airlines flight by Chicago aviation police, but her evasive testimony at a City Council hearing exposed broader questions about the state of security at O’Hare and Midway airports.
Under questioning by Ald. Edward Burke (14th), Evans revealed that she had ordered aviation security officers — who have been lobbying for the right to carry guns with Burke as their champion — to remove the word “police” from their uniforms.
“In a directive in January, we ordered them to not use the word ‘police.’ To use the word ‘security’ on their jackets,” Evans said.
So now they aren't the police...as declared by a bureaucrat. Amazing.
And the Sun Times further clouds the issue with this:
And the Sun Times further clouds the issue with this:
- After Thursday’s hearing, the role of the aviation security cops seemed murky, though.
What the hell is an "aviation security cop"? Did the Sun Times just invent this term? At Rahm's behest? Are we about to see the Aviation PD disbanded? And will we be able to bid to the airports?
Has anyone thought that maybe this entire episode is being used to pry the airports from out of Ed Burke's iron fist?
Has anyone thought that maybe this entire episode is being used to pry the airports from out of Ed Burke's iron fist?
Labels: general
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
132 Comments:
Lol... don't send them to the CPD academy, save some money that can be allocated to an illegal alien defense fund--- courtesy of asshole Rham- it up tax payers ass
aviation guys all think they are on the swat team or something. They are "cops" but they are not. They tell all their friends that they are "the police in Chicago". Well, true I suppose. They are police officers who so happen to work in the city limits of Chicago... but they aren't even allowed to carry a gun. Get rid of them all together. Staff the entire airport with CPD and call it a day... and not bare bones staffing.. actually make it look like there are a ton of cops guarding and protecting the airport. Ever flown in New York? Boston? Cops everywhere. guys walking with dogs, M4 carbines, two or three standing around in uniform around every terminal entrance and roaming the gates and airfield. If the department did it right it could actually be effective.
Disband aviation police and replace with security force, I mean security firm. How many security firms that are connected would then be able to bid for the contract to defend our airports from criminals and terrorists? Who has the biggest beak to wet. Watch and see.
Yep You got it , Thats exactly what there going to do , They'll be called UNIVERSAL SECURITY , what a joke , Not only will they ever be able to carry , but there not going to have a Job by the end of Summer ,
No disrespect to the Aviation Police, but honestly a couple old timer Chicago Cops would have handled the plane situation a lot better. Purely due to more street experience and dealing with uncooperative people. Aviation Police never get that experience; only working at the airport.
Every CPD coworker I've talked to about this said they would have left the guy on the plane because it's a civil issue at that point. But Aviation Police, having never made arrests or testified in court may not know the difference. They were ill prepared for that situation.
Security? Do they drive small cars with amber lights on top?
I am so tired of reading about this poor "doctor". When you forcibly disobey a lawful order of the owner of property who does not want you in it or on it and you are told to get out, you have a legal duty to comply with the request of the owner of the property or law enforcement issuing a lawful order. If not, you are trespassing.
This clown got exactly what he was asking for, forcible removal wherein he was injured because of his refusal to obey lawful orders. Now the police are not going to enforce lawful orders? So if some asshole is in my business and I decide its time for him or her to go, responding police to my complaint are not going to remove the offender from my premises? Then we have the Chicago City Council, the largest collection of idiots and idiot deliberative body most anywhere in my opinion taking the matter up? Gee, I wonder why things are so screwed up in this state people are more often are steadily voting with their feet?
And if I hear one more "oh my god" from the woman on the video I will go crazy. STFU already.
Security? Do they drive small cars with amber lights on top?
They drive small cars with a spot light on top. Once before I was the police..... I flagged one down about a man who pointed a pistol at me by MDW. He said, call 911 and drove off.
While politicians and bureaucrats quibble over labels, the most Holy Christian holiday has arrived. Lots of people traveling to spend time with family across the country passing through the airports. All at a time when a clear and present danger from the fundamental extremists rooted in a religion of peace has played out time and time again on the European continent with deadly outcomes.
Does the traveling public actually feel secure when actual threbats exist? These dumbells are highlighting the vulnerabilities at one of the busiest airports in the world. As the publically debate terminology, the airport security operates in limbo not sure how to keep America safe again.
Evans objects to the use of "police". It may be semantics at play. Think about how police have been taking a beat down by the progressives, inner city politicians, marxist based teachings in institutions of higher learning, past democrat presidents( past female presidential candidates too), high ranking justice officials and the like. What aspiring bureaucrat wants to be associated with police who stand for law and order?
If you are seeking upward mobility in the Cook County democrat party, it best to keep terms such as "police", off your resume given labels such as police are toxic dog whistles to democrat voters. Aspiring progressive leaders have crafted their own negative stereotypes of police.
But those same democrat powerhouse figures seek out those armed police escorts bypassing those intrusive inconvienient TSA checkpoints thus avoiding all contact with the unwashed masses. They are privilaged you know. Don't forget all the red tape airline passengers must deal each and everytime they travel. But the police continue to be the problem or at least the terminology and what it stands for is.
Yep, they SHOULD have left the guy on the plane. I guarantee that after 15 minutes all those bleeding hearts championing the guy would remove him themselves for delaying their all-important schedules.
I defy anyone here to find a state law or Chicago municipal ordinance that makes aviation a "Police" department. They may be "special police" (security guards) at best. The city created that mess at aviation by giving those jobs as the "booby" prize to those they wanted to take care of that couldn't get on the Chicago Police Dept. Then Mauer went full speed ahead when he was the boss there to feed his ego of being Chief of the third biggest "PD" in Illinois. There was never a reason to send them to the Academy Check backgrounds there and see how many of them were fired from some PD. These aviation guys may have fucked up the best 80K a year security guard job that sent them to the Police Academy with their "We're the real Police," and "We need guns," and crying to the media shit.
United not willing to sign complaints 19- PAUL.
It's a cush job.
Sorry, these guys aren't the police. Pretty obvious. They acted like bouncers for the airlines. Good job fellas. You just screwed up an easy job.
A little history regarding Aviation Security.....there was a time back in the late 80's when being assigned to the airports as a Chicago Police officer was considered punishment, perceived as nothing more than standing out on the roadways and writing parking tickets. A few years later the CPD airport units became the best unkept secret in the department and it would take nearly 20 years seniority to bid out there. The workload was lighter, the clientele were nicer and it was a stress free environment. Sometime during the Washington administration, Leroy O'Shield and his 40 thieves ran security for the Department of Aviation. Shakedowns of airport tenants, hotel bills at the O'Hare Hilton were run up, a sexual harassment complaint here and there covered up...anyway, with seniority being the prime requirement for CPD staffing at the airports, for many of the officers assigned there this would be their last unit before retirement. And when you've put in your 25 and 30 plus years, activity levels aren't going to go thru the roof among the uniformed officers. Enter the Department of Aviation police (security officers). With hordes of suburban cab drivers hustling fares at O'Hare, licensed taxis authorized to pickup at the airports complained they were being cheated out of their fares by cab hustlers (sometimes homeless enlisted by the suburban cabbies). CPD old timers didn't want to arrest them and go to court and so DOA police would arrest them, take them to the CPD facility, prepare the paperwork and arrest reports and sign the arrest report as the complaining witness and have a CPD officer "clerk" the report and get credit for the arrest. DOA police would handle the court. Everyone was happy. CPD got their enforcement numbers, DOA police got arrest and court experience and the Chicago cabbies who paid thousands of dollars for their medallions to operate cabs at the airports got rid of their illegal competition.
Technically, the Department of Aviation police are, according to the City of Chicago Budget, Aviation Security Officers. By City of Chicago ordinance, they are commissioned as "Special Police" by the Superintendent of the Chicago Police Department. They possess the same law enforcement authority as other law enforcement agencies while they are at their place of employment. Their authority does not extend beyond the boundaries of the city's airports.
Many of the Department of Aviation police are retired Chicago Police Officers. Many former DOA police are current Chicago Police officers. Were you to ask the retired CPD currently working for the Department of Aviation, they would tell you that you couldn't find a better job for a retiree. They enjoy their CPD pensions, they have continued medical and life insurance, they have somewhere to go and something to do and the starting salary is currently just shy of $50,000.
What all of us would agree on with regard to the United incident is that they never should have gone on the plane without a signed complaint. And as every FTO has told a recruit, anytime you put your hands on someone in a situation, they go to jail. That's just protecting yourself.
United stooged them out and made them their boogie man and left them holding the bag for half of the Dr.'s lawsuit. Hopefully this expensive lesson will be well learned by the time all of this gets settled before going to court.
Their job title is "Aviation Security Officer." Not police, security. It was never intended that they be a police force until that goof Maurer got his Daley backed clout job out there and wanted to play police chief. Nobody at City Hall thought it was a big deal as he played police - paid the CPD to send ASOs to our academy, repaint the vehicles, change the uniforms. But the one thing he couldn't change was their job title. Because they're not supposed to be anything but security and guard the checkpoints. There's no test to become an ASO, only a phone call. They're lucky to have jobs and the only reason the city hasn't gotten rid of them yet is because their union - SEIU - is a heavy contributor to the politicians. But that day is coming, and they'll all be replaced by $13/hour "guards." They won't have to be replaced by CPD officers, because ASOs ARE NOT THE POLICE!
And the comment about CPD officers not handling this cluster the way it was - absolutely accurate.
There is no logical rationale for sending DOA personnel to the academy for the same training as other police officers. Under state law they have the power to make arrests the same as any other law enforcement officer in Illinois but agency policy dictates they are just security guards. Most of their training is not necessary for the duties at the airports. They could develop new training to focus on their duties at the airports, leaving out firearms training, Tactical survival skills and instead add more procedural justice and other community orientated skills. The DOA leadership is full of clout heavy retirees that lack any skills. The head of DOA is another political appointee. What can you expect form this agency run by political hacks. They should be trained as security and not as police officers doning security work.
The entire airport security should be revamped, Airport police, tsa, and that do nothing tsa bomb unit.
Make up your minds already. One way or the other.
The story that Evans seems to be pushing is that it OK to have unarmed security personnel in the secured area. That premise is valid only if the secured perimeter is never breached. Never say never when looking at a terrorist or at violent offender threat.
So Aviation police as they are now go through the CPD academy pass the state test, so they have "police powers of arrest."
They are paid by the City of Chicago? Is there some sort of grant from the Fed's or the airlines? So my question is why aren't they Chicago Police? How does this benefit the aviation police department? Or should I say who does it benefit? How many officers are in the aviation police department? Who's in charge? Is it a seperate pension system, do they get pensions? What are the benefits, salary medical etc? Age requirements to get on and mandatory retirement. Where do I sign up, it looks like your short at least 3 officers short currently. So can't help myself. From the video it looks like one officer is to blame for this mess as usual. And don't defend him if anyone thinks that was eth proper way to handle the situation retire now. We're not talking about a fleeing felon here, we're talking about an airline passenger who at best was trespassing after being asked to leave the plane and that is even weak because he had a valid boarding pass in his pocket.
I bet they wont dis-allow them to write tickets and generate revenue...even though they aren't the police.
Alderman Burke is a big jag off. The way he was bagering the witnesses. You are the one who gave these people their jobs
Put blame on aviation security supervisors , not enforcing uniform infractions.
Look at Chicago , superintendent greets new detectives, many of newly promoted detectives had dreads , goatees, worn out uniforms Superintendent didn't notice , wink ,wink
Some arrived ten minutes late , probably the merit picks
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Every CPD coworker I've talked to about this said they would have left the guy on the plane because it's a civil issue at that point. But Aviation Police, having never made arrests or testified in court may not know the difference. They were ill prepared for that situation.
4/14/2017 01:47:00 AM
Gotta love all the Monday morning quarterbacks.
It will be interesting to see how the airlines handle the next disruptive, alcohol fueled passenger..
Ever flown in New York? Boston? Cops everywhere. guys walking with dogs, M4 carbines, two or three standing around in uniform around every terminal entrance and roaming the gates and airfield. If the department did it right it could actually be effective.
4/14/2017 12:13:00 AM
Exactly, just returned from Tampa International, Police Officers armed with carbines everywhere, not many with over twenty years on the job...
Just a thought the Aviation Police vehicles all of them clearly state on the side of the vehicles "police" but yet Ginger the overpaid $300,000 a year commissioner says that they are security guards that would be like Chicago police vehicles which are fully marked police having security guards unarmed driving around in those vehicles . When it says police on the vehicles there should be a police officer in their vehicle police officers in many parts of this country are targeted and the word police on the side of the vehicle means that they are the police they should be armed and ready for any type of danger or to respond in case of an emergency.
What kind of insane person would call people that are in a uniform Mark police wearing a badge that says police on it would call them security guards the person that needs to be removed is the commissioner it starts at the top she said she told them to remove their patches who did she tell what kind of insanity is that with the Chicago Police Department next tell us to remove our patches and just put security guards on it but then again that would be what the alderman will want us to do totally hands off just like it in another post where it says the alderman want to be involved in contractual negotiations and they want to dictate what the police are supposed to do total lack of respect total lack of knowing what the police do right alderman?
The insanity in this city never ceases to end.
Hillard or McCarthy/Simon should get the contract. If passengers are a problem; they just disappear! Baby "G"
Behind the scenes, Ginger and Rham have been looking for a way to bring in boatloads of money from Universal Security ( or any of a dozen other names they have ) and get rid of the department.
Lets now forget, they fired an ex-cpd boss for asking where the money was going.
So in order to get more cash in their pockets, they will decertify 300 coppers.
If we allow them to privatize these police jobs, whats next for both CPD and CFD?
Be careful what you wish for, they are already thinking of private ETs and throwing all the sworn members out of CAPS. Training division next????
I am sure that the DOA has some fine officers, but it appears that it also has some that are not so fine. I have always thought that is is an ineffective, ill trained security force done on the cheap by the mayor and stacked with patronage employees. No one should be arrested unless the officer sees a crime or the airlines signs a complaint. Once you are boarded you should not be denied your flight unless you are disruptive. United is the biggest offender of voluntary and involuntary boarding. There were people on that plane who had to get to vacations to work and family emergencies. Then some are told, " no flight for you" and you have to spend a night in a hotel and arrive 24 hours later. it is just plain wrong ( forgive the pun). United is also suspected of selecting those passengers for bumping based on the amount of fare they pay, that is you book you flight a month ago and pay a lower fare. Someone comes along the last minute and pays a much higher fare and he gets your seat. In other words, a corporate policy.
They are not the police and have never been the police. They have no police commission. So it's not because of a bureaucrat's order; they started putting "police" on everything when Mauer let them because he thought that if they started looking like police and calling themselves police, they would somehow eventually become the police he aimed at creating. The city website lists them as DOA SECURITY.
Don't believe me? Get pulled over by one and ask for a Y ticket and a court date.
They are unarmed because they would have to be FCC ("tan card") holders and the DOA does not sponsor them as such. They can go through any academy and qualify whenever they want (as long as they have a FOID card). One is simply school and the other is a day at the range. Neither one makes someone have sworn powers of arrest. They have no commission and no arrest powers. Just mislabeled uniforms and cars and egos. Remember when the law and what constitutes someone who could carry off duty had to be changed to appease the corrections officers who were butt hurt because they couldn't carry off duty? They were not police with statutory powers of arrest. So they could carry to and from work, same as a security guard, but that was it. Now they are all telling people they're the police because they went through a "C.O. to P.O. academy" and took the state test and are police, "same as you guys." They never even have an FTO period. They are still in the corrections pension tier, not then CCSPD. And they go around in unmarked cars serving civil process (mostly evictions) like they're some sort of super tac team or something. But they'll tell you all day that they're police. They know as much about being the street police as the DOA security guards ripping people out of their seats over civil matters.
Not trying to put them down, but security is what the DOA guards are and always have been. Fix the uniforms and the whole thing is settled. They'd just be politically connected high-paid security in appearance, same as they are now in terms of arrests powers.
If the Aviation Police are not Police, why are they sent to the Police Academy for training? And why are they wearing Police on their uniforms? The City has pulled this game before. For example at the City Colleges, we have some very ambiguous standards as to what and who there security force is and can do. The City gets away with this shit until someone gets hurt and sues. They the taxpayers, not the bureaucrats walks away with a nice pension. People need to sue the directors of these agencies for punitive damages; then things will change quickly. Baby "G"
Most are Burke guys most can't get on the Police dept
Retired 30 year cop here. Here's how the passenger event should have been handled: First, where is the Captain of the ship? He is the ultimate authority on his assigned plane. Once the passenger refused to leave his seat, the "officers" should have retreated and put it in the lap of the Captain. Tell him that the passenger has not performed any criminal act nor has he threatened anyone on the plane. We will not be your bouncers as if we were in a bar. This is a civil case for you and United to work out. Then, exit the plane and go back to your duties.
Anonymous said...
Every CPD coworker I've talked to about this said they would have left the guy on the plane because it's a civil issue at that point. But Aviation Police, having never made arrests or testified in court may not know the difference. They were ill prepared for that situation.
4/14/2017 01:47:00 AM
You'd better read all that fine print on your next plane ticket. When a crew wants you off their plane, it's a Federal violation not to get off their plane. All that 'civil' stuff can be sorted out afterward.
Doctor Doo should have exited the plane and sued them for compensation later.
This incident is an extremely overworked national media circus, all on Rahm's International Airport and economic engine. I can't see the problem, assholes act up everyday and get launched. Loevy has to be pouring over the complaints for victims, and they are sure as hell calling now that pansy assed Ocsar Muñoz caved in.
That $16 million budget decent budget to manipulate so AVPD will never be disbanded.
There will probably be something soon in the works regarding Aviation duties, but CPD won't be expanding there.
Special Ed and Ohare are probably workshopping some interesting ideas right now concerning who does what and where, please standby. (Run and Hide 2.0, Hands Up-Don't Boot Me Off).
This is nothing more than a public relations charade to take heat off any other of Rahm's failures.
Notice their hasn't been any mentioned accountability for the Aviation Supervisors.
O'hairbrained Ginger Evans did a Special Ed (homma-da-homma-dah). Wouldn't be more appropriate and convincing if they questioned the ranking AVPD supervisor/chief?
I'm won't bash the individuals that were tasked with dragging a screaming resistor off the plane.
That mush wasn't planning on going easily. Who screams like a maniac over a seat ?
This high paid lawyer even made a reference to "nut jobs" on airplanes.
I'm convinced United opened the door for more passenger tantrums, not from overbooking but from the usual run-of-the-mill untouchable, confrontational and obnoxious folk.
That unhinged liberal professor that accosted Ivanka Trump and her kids on a flight comes to mind.
Airlines are going to have to learn to tolerate bad behavior directed at them...like police do.
The rest of the well behaved passengers will also have to endure loudmouths, offensive rap music from earbuds, drunks and foreigners mumbling in tongue.
The absence of AVPDs contact with the public may bring more CR's to the CPD whenever theres an airline customer service issue...because they can.
Notice how United Airlines has taken all the heat on this event. I realize they have the deeper pockets but DOA are the biggest political hacks on the planet. Its a good thing they do not carry guns as the Asian doctor probably would have been ventilated like Osama Bin Laden.
That Agency should be decertified and scrapped, they serve on one purpose...to give some juiced slob their police fantasy job.
The powers to be do not want the public to know about DOA, most outsiders do not. As fucked up as CPD is the airports would be better off with CPD,and that's saying a lot.
Just about every city of any size that I've flown into or out of had a division of the local PD that was either assigned as Airport PD, or occasionally designated as a separately functioning department, but with virtually identical uniforms, cars, equipment. Amazing that Chicago would put these guys out there wearing jackets making them look like bikers. And no weapons ?? You gotta question the intelligence of a guy who would even take that job in the first frickin' place.
It was easy to see from the video these guys had zero training. Any 3rd week academy rookie who had already had training in comealongs could put a quick wristlock and arm bar on the good Doc and he would have been dancing like the Rockettes. No need to go Neanderthal.
The city has the Aviation police because they are cheaper than using CPD officers, plain and simple. No training after the academy. NO experience. No sense.
Lawyers are going to make a lot of money on this one.....
When will Rahm and the City learn that cheap in the short term is a potential disaster in the long term? Rahm has been doing on the cheap with the police department for too long, not hiring enough officers to keep up with retirements, not hiring enough officers to do the basic functions that the citizens want, asking officers to work their days off at OT rates, hiring private security for business areas, hiring civilians to write parkers, hiring untrained personnel to protect the first place citizens see when they arrive to Chicago from other places.....
Rahm would rather pay out in lawsuits than train employees to do their jobs better....
Their official title is Aviation security officers
Liberals Good Friday they are calling the lawless doctor Jesus that would be blasphem
Shark Jumped: Priest on MSNBC Compares United Passenger to Jesus
http://www.mediaite.com/online/shark-jumped-priest-on-msnbc-compares-united-passenger-to-jesus/
RE: aviation guys all think they are on the swat team or something. They are "cops" but they are not. They tell all their friends that they are "the police in Chicago". Well, true I suppose. They are police officers who so happen to work in the city limits of Chicago... but they aren't even allowed to carry a gun. Get rid of them all together. Staff the entire airport with CPD and call it a day... and not bare bones staffing.. actually make it look like there are a ton of cops guarding and protecting the airport. Ever flown in New York? Boston? Cops everywhere. guys walking with dogs, M4 carbines, two or three standing around in uniform around every terminal entrance and roaming the gates and airfield. If the department did it right it could actually be effective.
Hahahaha!! Put down your crack pipe, numb nuts....I don't know where you have been but CPD can barely stem the tide of killings in the city. CPD is so mismanaged and understaffed with people that can barely do the job on the streets of Chicago let alone work the airports. What needs to be done is to professionalize the Airport police. Hire a real Police Chief for starters. Stop hiring retired CPD guys that have the CPD mentality and do nothing to begin with. Start a training program that encompasses training on issues they will have to deal with in an airport environment. Also does the Airport Police even have policy manual??? How in the fuck did this Ginger Evans get this job as the Commissioner of aviation? She makes 300K a year, which is double what most municipal police chiefs make and she wants to call the Aviation police, security guards? Well what does that make Ginger, Security Chief? Aviation Police go through the same Chicago police academy (if you can call it that??), they are state of Illinois certified. Unbelievable that they are not armed?? Especially after the Fort lauderdale incident and Los Angeles airport incident where an unarmed TSA agent was killed. This whole fiasco was not the fault of the Aviation police, it is the fault of Ginger and management, who didn't provide the training, leadership and tools needed to get the job done!!!
Aviation police should be named TOP FLITE SECURITY what a bunch of morons... Craig and Dede could run these goofs... political do nothings and making 80000 to push a button to open a gate
Always somebody else's fault
Common sense should prevail, disband aviation police and expand o'hare cpd unit and save some cash by making these changes. In the age of terrorism, you want cpd to respond instead of security in case of an attack or unruly plane passengers which will likely increase with the united fiasco.
Hey, if down in Florida media (or at the federal government executive branch) they can just invent the term "white hispanic", then in Chicago they can magically create non cop cops by calling them security cops.
Jeez.
This way, they can say "reportedly" as their means of NOT retracting or correcting all their reportage about this being done by "Chicago Cops"
F these pilots!!! From now on, there will have to be a raging gun battle going on in the plane before I would even think about helping out any airline staff. Prior to 9/11, these a==holes didn't want any armed LE officers on the flights and made it extremely difficult if they were forced to allow them on plane. Now they want armed Air Marshals, armed pilots and armed flight attendants on plane. Next time, let one of them handle the passengers. Remember it doesn't matter if it is a domestic, bar fight or unruly airline passenger, if anything wrong happens, it is the cops (or in this case non police security police) fault.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/04/14/united-airlines-pilots-infuriated-david-dao-dragged-off-flight-3411/
United stooged them out and made them their boogie man and left them holding the bag for half of the Dr.'s lawsuit. Hopefully this expensive lesson will be well learned by the time all of this gets settled before going to court.
4/14/2017 07:37:00 AM
yes, a very good recollection of history. You forgot about Leroy shaking down the limo drivers.He should have gone to jail but was protected, way more then once
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Behind the scenes, Ginger and Rham have been looking for a way to bring in boatloads of money from Universal Security ( or any of a dozen other names they have ) and get rid of the department.
Lets now forget, they fired an ex-cpd boss for asking where the money was going.
So in order to get more cash in their pockets, they will decertify 300 coppers.
If we allow them to privatize these police jobs, whats next for both CPD and CFD?
Be careful what you wish for, they are already thinking of private ETs and throwing all the sworn members out of CAPS. Training division next????
4/14/2017 09:37:00 AM
Now throwing the deadbeats out of the academy is not such a bad idea there.
Can you believe if Dr Dusch had done this in China or Russia? I don't think the outcome would've been as good as it was here. Here you can do anything you want, elsewhere it's my way or the highway.
Exactly, just returned from Tampa International, Police Officers armed with carbines everywhere, not many with over twenty years on the job...
4/14/2017 09:23:00 AM
No kidding, I've heard those blue hairs can be a wild bunch.
""I am sure that the DOA has some fine officers, but it appears that it also has some that are not so fine""
Kinda sounds like us eh? I must admit I dont expect much from my former Dept. but even I'm disgusted over calling for almost 300 men and woman to be thrown out of their jobs. Happy Easter motherfuckers!
I have just 1 word.
Airport special.
Thanks,
Joe Biden
Who was the fat head Deputy that loved the Aviation Police, a northsider if I recall who made sure his staff of 1 1/2 years on the job office made Sgt. He was lickin Daley's balls like they were jelly beans, about the same size.
APD will not be disbanded because our union (SEIU 73) always remembers to send in the letter of intent to re-negotiate.
DOA APD are part of SEIU 74 Unit II.
That covers:
Aviation Security State Sworn Law Enforcement Officers.
Traffic Aides
Animal Control
Detention Aides
Parking Enforcement Aies
Crossing Guards
I believe some Public Schools Security staff.
And the Supervisors of those said positions. (PEA, Crossing Guard, TMA, Animal Control, etc...)
We will demand an Immediate move to Arbitration before we will allow the City to Fuck 250 of our union brothers and sisters because the Commish of Aviation doesn't know what the fuck she is doing with a sworn Police Department.
Fuck you 9.5 and Ginger and Burke.
@ 4/14/2017 03:20:00 PM
Why would you want to see City Employees lose their Career Service Jobs due to a Moron in Charge of their department?
The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs (remember the big deal about that Exempt that used her Badge to push her way to the tarmac to see some big celeb a few years ago? You guys on the Blog were screaming about the lack of Discipline for her).
Department of Aviation "Security" are State Sworn LEO's. They all did City Academy or Cook County Academy....Required Period.
The Common Sense move would be to Pull APD into the CPD like the CPD did with the Park District Police Department.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Aviation police should be named TOP FLITE SECURITY what a bunch of morons... Craig and Dede could run these goofs... political do nothings and making 80000 to push a button to open a gate
4/14/2017 03:09:00 PM
Horse shit (apologies to the swearing SCC).
All of the APD do NOT make 80k a year.
The Hourly Part Time DOA APD Officers (all Retired LEOs) make 22,786.40 a year on top of their Retired PO pension.
The Full Time DOA APD Officers Start at 47,124 a year and only 18 of the 251 DOA APD are making over 80k a year.
48 are in the 70k range
81 are in the 60k-69k range
56 are in the 50k - 59k range
43 are in the 40k to 49k range
The 23 DOA APD Sgt's make between $62,640 and $88,812.
23 Sgt's for 251 PO's is a little High Imo. About 1 per 10.91 cops seems a little Heavy for Supervision.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
No disrespect to the Aviation Police, but honestly a couple old timer Chicago Cops would have handled the plane situation a lot better. Purely due to more street experience and dealing with uncooperative people. Aviation Police never get that experience; only working at the airport.
4/14/2017 01:43:00 AM
Yeah Right.
I can imagine. Another Lawsuit no matter what Chicago PD handled this.
DOA PD should have told United to Pound Sand and put the crew into the Stewardess jump seats.
@7:46....Listen up Asswipe...My son and his other Iraqi WAR VETS, DID take a TEST, The same test the city gave and he /they passed said tests...The city disqualified my son once they found out he was from a POLICE FAMILY, was White and VETERAN. As a matter of fact, Two weeks before he was to start the Academy for CPD, They called him up and said NEVER MIND, as they did to the other Vets ...Oh and by the way. APD had the SAME TRANING as the CPD whilst in the Academy...
Ginger Evans?? LOL, boy you know your heavy when you can Lie and not give a shit what anyone thinks at the City Council. I guess she didnt observe her 300 officers all walking around with Police on their uniforms and hats every day since Jan. when she supposedly told them not to wear them. Nor did she notice the fleet of SUVs in her lot every day that said "Police" and had Police light bars on them.
I knew all of this was eventually going to happen with a few of these young "real police" types pushing this shit, going on CNN and raising a big stink. I was on their side with the gun thing but I knew it was going to start a big pile of shit with CPD because they dont know how to process prisoners, do case reporting, or have lock up facilities. Nor do they know just how big a pain in the ass being the Police really is.
They already had some hassling travelers and making traffic stops. It was just a matter of time. And its a pity cause they have a lot of nice people on that job that dont deserve this.
Ahhh what's in a name? Security...Police. My favorite is Crane "Medical Prepatory" High School. Yes, Crane high school is a path for med school. Paint the Pig.
DHS -TSA has POLICE on the back of their vests just as AVPD.
Is AVPD Sworn to an Oath for the prevention, detection of criminal offenses and maintain public order makes them an 'officer' by definition? (Juliet: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose...)
The City screws up and johnny come lawsuits, scrambles to make sure it's the fault of the evil 'what-ever' Police...( by any other name would smell as sweet).
For the record:
"United Airlines pilots want it known that they had nothing to do with the incident in which a passenger was VIOLENTLY dragged off a United Express plane in Chicago... They say they are "infuriated" by what happened and blamed the debacle on the "grossly inappropriate" actions of the security officers."
United may like to have their own low-cost, private security contractor for these situations, who will be easily dumbfounded and overwhelmed, then rely on the real Police to clean up the mess and take the heat.
Is it possible to Stay anymore Fetal at Ohare?
Where's the Safe place, I'm frightened.
Heard Andy Shaw from the BGA on the radio talking about the aviation police. He couldn't resist getting in a dig on CPD. Said many officers are retired CPD who collect pensions and now get a second salary. What an asshat!
@ 4/14/2017 03:20:00 PM
Why would you want to see City Employees lose their Career Service Jobs due to a Moron in Charge of their department?
The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs (remember the big deal about that Exempt that used her Badge to push her way to the tarmac to see some big celeb a few years ago? You guys on the Blog were screaming about the lack of Discipline for her).
Department of Aviation "Security" are State Sworn LEO's. They all did City Academy or Cook County Academy....Required Period.
The Common Sense move would be to Pull APD into the CPD like the CPD did with the Park District Police Department.
4/14/2017 08:13:00 PM
Thats fine but you aviation clowns will have to rebid to ohare and midway and get behind some of us who have worked the ghetto for years if any aviation guy has 28+ on aviation he can keep his spot the rest of you clowns better brush up on your baby daddy verbal judo.Half of you would resign if you got sent to the ghetto.
United stooged them out and made them their boogie man and left them holding the bag for half of the Dr.'s lawsuit. Hopefully this expensive lesson will be well learned by the time all of this gets settled before going to court.
4/14/2017 07:37:00 AM
You know what a legit department would do is corporation council would immediately issue a legal bulletin for the aviation clowns and the kma cpd guys about how to handle these situations and legally what our limits are.But that would be in an alternate universe.I'm waiting to bid up to ohare as soon as they disband the gunless clout hacks.
Just because you pass a state test doesn't make you a police officer. Your agency has to be a registered police agency. ASO is not. They get thier authority from CPD. CPD is the licensed, registered agency with the Illinois Training Standards Board. Not ASO. So there you have it. They are security guards, overpaid and overtrained. Get rid of them and put more CPD there.
A large part of this fiasco happened because the new boss of the Aviation police created a Plain clothes Tac Team UNARMED who felt they had to rush to this call and take action. Please tell me what an unarmed tac team is supposed to do on the airfield. Nonsense
Paragon Security Services is a done detail at O'Hare. In light of the recent humiliation suffered by the Department, City and Personnel it has been put on front burner. Check out Rick Simons biggest supporters...SEIU. There will be zero resistance.
Did you ever drive around the airport? The thing that spooks me out no trees.
They should have carried him like a baby and kept their jobs.
On the conservative news the Dr on UAL was discussed. As the airline was be criticised the question was asked "what do you do with someone who refuses to obey and leave?"
Hi. My name is ahmed. Thank you for letting me know what a joke security s at Chicago airports. It has been dually noted. Aloha Snackbar.
"No disrespect to the Aviation Police, but honestly a couple old timer Chicago Cops would have handled the plane situation a lot better. Purely due to more street experience and dealing with uncooperative people. Aviation Police never get that experience; only working at the airport.
4/14/2017 01:43:00 AM"
Got that right. The only ones being uncooperative where the United Flight Crew. They would've determined (quite rightly) it was a civil matter that did not require Police Intervention. He paid for his ticket if it was a overbooking issue, Shouldn't have let him board in the first place?
It's a learning experience, don't be so quick to jump in & pimp for someone.
As John Wasco from the 014 said years ago, "It takes one second to step into shit, and forever to get out of it."
I'm retired out of CPD O'Hare Airport and Aviation Police NEVER went on the plane for a disturbance ~ only CPD....where were they?! Why did Aviation Police handle that job?!
The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs (remember the big deal about that Exempt that used her Badge to push her way to the tarmac to see some big celeb a few years ago? You guys on the Blog were screaming about the lack of Discipline for her).
Hey idiot...I work at O'Hare 050...there's about 2 places I can't go on the secure side....a taxiway, and a runway, and I can drive on those with a CDA Ops escort (that's a Chicago Dept of Aviation escort, not Aviation Security). Know the facts before you spout off. CPD Airport personnel at both 050 & 051 are badged employees with access to the secured side. The exempt that used her CPD badge to get onto the secured side WAS NOT authorized to be back there because she was not an airport-badged employee. Big difference.
"I am so tired of reading about this poor "doctor". When you forcibly disobey a lawful order of the owner of property who does not want you in it or on it and you are told to get out, you have a legal duty to comply with the request of the owner of the property or law enforcement issuing a lawful order. If not, you are trespassing."
I'm tired of shithouse lawyers like yourself making laws up. There was no lawful order that was broken. He paid for his ticket, that's called a legal contract, there was no trespassing Halfwit. He got on the next flight after getting a beat down by some overzealous idiots pimping for UA. Please tell us your not the Police, you need to resign and go back to selling shoes, Moron.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Every CPD coworker I've talked to about this said they would have left the guy on the plane because it's a civil issue at that point. But Aviation Police, having never made arrests or testified in court may not know the difference. They were ill prepared for that situation.
4/14/2017 01:47:00 AM
Gotta love all the Monday morning quarterbacks."
It's the Monday morning Morons like you 147 am. Obviously you know jack shit about the law and legal contracts.
Have another shot of Malort Stewbum, and stay of the blog until you sober up, if you're capable that is.
Anonymous said...
Who was the fat head Deputy that loved the Aviation Police, a northsider if I recall who made sure his staff of 1 1/2 years on the job office made Sgt. He was lickin Daley's balls like they were jelly beans, about the same size.
4/14/2017 08:07:00 PM
Your talking about Jim Maurer who took over the Aviation police when he retired as a Deputy Superintendent. You either loved him or hated him. Real old school guy, not afraid to say what was on his mind. He tried to upgrade training for the AP and make some other changes. Unfortunately, he wasn't the only one licking Daley's balls. He got into a pissing contest with the former Aviation Commissioner Rosemarie Andolino, a Daley cronie and he lost ... and was sent packing.
Anonymous said...
Behind the scenes, Ginger and Rham have been looking for a way to bring in boatloads of money from Universal Security ( or any of a dozen other names they have ) and get rid of the department.
Lets now forget, they fired an ex-cpd boss for asking where the money was going.
So in order to get more cash in their pockets, they will decertify 300 coppers.
If we allow them to privatize these police jobs, whats next for both CPD and CFD?
Be careful what you wish for, they are already thinking of private ETs and throwing all the sworn members out of CAPS. Training division next????
4/14/2017 09:37:00 AM
They have a private firm called Turnkey Training in the Aviation Safety and Security Building. Turnkey consists of two politically connected bimbos, former Aviation employees, who have taken over emergency response training that used to be done by CFD personnel. The city provided them a suite of rooms in the facility for their offices and equipment. I wonder who is picking up the tab for their office space? They may have gotten the contract for being a woman or minority owned business, one is hispanic and the other white.
The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs (remember the big deal about that Exempt that used her Badge to push her way to the tarmac to see some big celeb a few years ago?
WTF are you talking about?
050 is allowed to go anywhere in the airport and does. Non-050 need an escort or need special permission to enter the secure side armed because they lack clearance that all 050 have.
CPD should have been called to this incident. No one has answered the question as to why CPD did not handle this. Incidents on planes are always handled by CPD... Why was this different?
...Hahahaha!! Put down your crack pipe, numb nuts....I don't know where you have been but CPD can barely stem the tide of killings in the city. CPD is so mismanaged and understaffed with people that can barely do the job on the streets of Chicago let alone work the airports. What needs to be done is to professionalize the Airport police. Hire a real...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another, soon to be, Ex- Aviation security officer, future contract guard heard from. Someone certainly is on the pipe comparing "stemming the tide of killings," to walking around an airport directing people to the nearest bathroom or where Chipotle is located. And WTF is "Aviation Tac?"
...We will demand an Immediate move to Arbitration before we will allow the City to Fuck 250 of our union brothers and sisters because the Commish of Aviation doesn't know what the fuck she is doing with a sworn Police Department....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All the City has to do is say, "Your job title is abolished," and "poof" you're gone. Got nothing to do with you "allowing" anything. Maybe you guys can find jobs at Animal Control or as Meter Maids. And that comment about "common sense" being put all of the aviation nutcases on CPD is not using common sense. If they knocked out those from aviation that are over 63, with criminal records, and bad backgrounds, CPD would only have to absorb about 8 of them onto the Police Dept.
Oh, BTW, the Aviation "Chief of Police," Jeff Redding was at the Council Hearing and couldn't explain what aviation's Use of Force Continuum was. It is a shame these aviation commandos did fuck up a good part-time and retiree job for Chicago coppers, though.
One of the perks of being a commissioner at the airport is free flights. Evan the alderman cash in on this benifit.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
@ 4/14/2017 03:20:00 PM
Why would you want to see City Employees lose their Career Service Jobs due to a Moron in Charge of their department?
The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs (remember the big deal about that Exempt that used her Badge to push her way to the tarmac to see some big celeb a few years ago? You guys on the Blog were screaming about the lack of Discipline for her).
Department of Aviation "Security" are State Sworn LEO's. They all did City Academy or Cook County Academy....Required Period.
The Common Sense move would be to Pull APD into the CPD like the CPD did with the Park District Police Department.
4/14/2017 08:13:00 PM
Too bad you don't know what your talking about. CPD handles calls everywhere at the airport and have full access to secure areas. Tickets are written only by mobile units who also patrol vast areas and respond to all sorts of calls. As for your KMA comment, these Veterans still do more work and have more knowledge than you ever will.
Not defending anyone, just a question, did anyone else notice the extreme LACK OF BLOOD on the subject's face in the pictures of him being taken off of the aircraft? Although his glasses are askew he continues to forcefully grip his cell phone in the footage.
With a broken nose and damaged teeth, shouldn't there be blood on his face?
Just wondering.
23 Sgt's for 251 PO's is a little High Imo. About 1 per 10.91 cops seems a little Heavy for Supervision.
4/14/2017 08:27:00 PM
FYI the federal standard is for a supervisor to have between 5-7 units under him/her any more he/she has a span of control problem, so 23 sgt's for 251 security guards is a little LOW.
This showed how incredibly incompetent Ginger is, what exactly are her qualifications? Who is her patron that gave her this spot?
The Turnkey Training your talking about does the AED training, thats all it does.
I am retired out or 050, and I was one of the officers who was routinely sent to disturbances, on bad days, 3 or 3 jobs at one time.
Yes I did have Aviation Officers in the background on some aircraft disturbances. When you short handed, with only 1 PO at a disturbance, any LEO is very welcome. And yes, they did assist me in arrests, sometime even transporting.
We do get shorthanded. There was one day during the summer (3rd watch) when I was the only marked car at O'Hare airport. I have "in progress" jobs holding. Thank God for Rosemont and Schiller Park, they also back us up.
Fuck Burke he should be in jail for all the shit he has done the only reason he Not is he is a rat for the G
As John Wasco from the 014 said years ago, "It takes one second to step into shit, and forever to get out of it."
4/15/2017 12:41:00 AM
"Man of Action" Randy Z. (ret.) said it first.
As andy shaw attacks CPD, does everyone know his son in law is Chris Hayes the liberal scum from MSNBC. Their child's middle name is Emanuel and Shaw's daughter got a job in the obama White House when Rahm was chief of staff. So if you think shaw isn't working with Rahm to fuck the police and never investigate one Rahm ally, dream on.
Why didn't the doctor, aka pill pusher, just leave the plane? No he's entitled.
DOA officers are not the real police. Ask the DOA how many arrests their 292 officers have made in the last 15 years and the answer will be ZERO! It is an over paid, under worked, sweet spot for connected do nothings to land a cream spot. Walk around the terminals and see them congregating. They serve absolutely no purpose being in the terminals, other than resetting used AED's. They aren't real police, so what exactly are they doing in the terminals? Nothing! What waste of our tax dollars. Their function is primarily access control for vehicles. They need to focus on that. Instead, there are a handful of bored DOA officers playing police and a actually racing CPD to beat them to jobs. They do a pretend investigation, no ISR (as mandated for CPD), and get in the way making CPD's officers jobs very difficult. O'Hare CPD have been pleading with bosses to resolve problem literaly for years, but it has always fallen on deaf ears UNTIL NOW! Bet they wish they would have listened! Someone should have had the balls to step up and demand DOA removed any reference to "police" from their uniform and vehicles and to stop responding to police events requiring a real police response. Those same balls are doing some more shriveling since this incident! Now will it be done, I doubt it. As for the dragging, no CPD officer would ever have done that. He wasn't violating any law. If he was, he should have been cuffed and taken off. Certain DOA supervisors were telling their officers to "go out and be the police" and they should be held to task. Rahm, how about providing a world class airport with a world class police presence? Give O'Hare CPD more officers and stop the bare bones bull crap.
Thankfully retired O'Hare CPD.
Oh, BTW, the Aviation "Chief of Police," Jeff Redding was at the Council Hearing and couldn't explain what aviation's Use of Force Continuum was. It is a shame these aviation commandos did fuck up a good part-time and retiree job for Chicago coppers, though.
4/15/2017 07:20:00 AM
absolutely correct. The city can eliminate the job title anytime they want and all of the DOA officers are gone, without recourse.
Ginger Evans sounds like a complete idiot, but I bet she has really amazing law enforcement / security / management skills - oh, it's Chiraq - never mind.
Anonymous said...
Why didn't the doctor, aka pill pusher, just leave the plane? No he's entitled.
4/15/2017 02:27:00 PM
Pretty bad comment and jaded on your part. This is a medical doctor who was traveling with his wife , also a medical doctor after visiting their daughter, also a doctor. He bought a ticket, was allowed to board and then was going to be kicked off so the airlines could seat an employee. The doctor was facing a night in a Chicago hotel with the airline making no attempt to board him on another airline. He did not fight security, only refused to leave. For that he was launched into the air smashing his face into an armrest across the aisle and dragged off with pretty substantial physical injury. What he did 15 years ago had no bearing on this incident. For one that is a long time ago and two, no one had knowledge of this at the time of this incident. He came to this country as a refugee and was successful. As of this writing he has had thousands of messages from United employees and passengers in support and complaining about the policies of United. It is about time this nonsense changes and comments that he is a drug dealer or Chinese are not only not helpful, but downright wrong. No traveling person should be treated with such disrespect as has come to be common with United, who bumped the majority of air passengers last year, 300,000, 40,000 involuntarily. this could have happened to anyone of us. That moron DOA officer should find another line of work.
Not defending anyone, just a question, did anyone else notice the extreme LACK OF BLOOD on the subject's face in the pictures of him being taken off of the aircraft? Although his glasses are askew he continues to forcefully grip his cell phone in the footage.
With a broken nose and damaged teeth, shouldn't there be blood on his face?
Just wondering.
He was free flowing after they got him off the plane.
""The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs (remember the big deal about that Exempt that used her Badge to push her way to the tarmac to see some big celeb a few years ago? You guys on the Blog were screaming about the lack of Discipline for her).""
Have you lost your mind? of course we can go into secure area's. What? You think they arent going to have anyone armed in secure area's? Quit smoking Meth.
"" Anonymous Anonymous said...
Hi. My name is ahmed. Thank you for letting me know what a joke security s at Chicago airports. It has been dually noted. Aloha Snackbar.""
Yeah right? And it all started with the CNN expose "Have gun Will Travel".
I sing a few Ava Maria's when I fly out of there. Please God dont let today be the big one.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Ginger Evans sounds like a complete idiot, but I bet she has really amazing law enforcement / security / management skills - oh, it's Chiraq - never mind.
4/15/2017 05:55:00 PM
Over $300,000 a year in pay waste of money she can't even speak well and lies!
CPD should have been called to this incident. No one has answered the question as to why CPD did not handle this. Incidents on planes are always handled by CPD... Why was this different?
4/15/2017 04:53:00 AM
Would like to know the same. I don't work the airport but I have never seen them personally except for driving around the inner perimeter of ORD or sleeping in various buildings. DOA are a bunch of political flunkies
Re: pry the airports from Ed Burke's fist.
Not a bad observation considering the rumor
Ed is related to the infamous Jimmy Burke, a good
Fella who knew quite a bit about airport operations
DOAtheir 292 officers have made in the last 15 years and the answer will be ZERO! It is an over paid, under worked, sweet spot for connected do nothings to land a cream spot. Walk around the terminals and see them congregating. They serve absolutely no purpose being in the terminals, other than resetting used AED's. They aren't real police, so what exactly are they doing in the terminals? Nothing! What waste of our tax dollars. Their function is primarily access control for vehicles. They need to focus on that.
----------
And what exactly does the CPD O'Hare nursing home real police do? Shut up asshat. Go back to sleep. You are just as useless.
Previously.....
-- ""I am so tired of reading about this poor "doctor". When you forcibly disobey a lawful order of the owner of property who does not want you in it or on it and you are told to get out, you have a legal duty to comply with the request of the owner of the property or law enforcement issuing a lawful order. If not, you are trespassing.""
-"I'm tired of shithouse lawyers like yourself making laws up. There was no lawful order that was broken. He paid for his ticket, that's called a legal contract, there was no trespassing Halfwit. He got on the next flight after getting a beat down by some overzealous idiots pimping for UA. Please tell us your not the Police, you need to resign and go back to selling shoes, Moron."
^Thank You.
It's sickening to see so many stooges posting here who don't know shit about what constitutes a lawful order.
They're a damn menace to real police.
Laws are what separate us from things like raccoons and Somalia.
Real cops enforce real laws. A damn tough job.
They don't act like jar heads with a "Because I say so" mentality. That always creates a mess for the officers with brains and courage. Always.
So a lawful order was given many times to the passenger his response "I'm not leaving "many times by united Airlines, many times by the officers on location so my question is ? Is he above the law?
Harold B-
While your son may have taken a test to get on the job and may have gone through the CPD Training Division, it's painfully obvious that those three DOA Police were absent the day the instructors were trying to instill common sense or teaching the law.
I suspect that these 3 aviation guys will be looking for a job and a lawyer to defend them in criminal court very soon. Kim Isha Foxx will be coming after them. The video will ruin them. Where was thier Supervisors.
The "order" was not lawful. He did not break any law. He paid for a seat and payment for the seat was accepted by United. He was issued a pass to board and his ass was in the seat he paid for. There was no legal order given by police. They are security, not police, and as such, their request to leave was not lawful.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Previously.....
-- ""I am so tired of reading about this poor "doctor". When you forcibly disobey a lawful order of the owner of property who does not want you in it or on it and you are told to get out, you have a legal duty to comply with the request of the owner of the property or law enforcement issuing a lawful order. If not, you are trespassing.""
-"I'm tired of shithouse lawyers like yourself making laws up. There was no lawful order that was broken. He paid for his ticket, that's called a legal contract, there was no trespassing Halfwit. He got on the next flight after getting a beat down by some overzealous idiots pimping for UA. Please tell us your not the Police, you need to resign and go back to selling shoes, Moron."
^Thank You.
It's sickening to see so many stooges posting here who don't know shit about what constitutes a lawful order.
They're a damn menace to real police.
Laws are what separate us from things like raccoons and Somalia.
Real cops enforce real laws. A damn tough job.
They don't act like jar heads with a "Because I say so" mentality. That always creates a mess for the officers with brains and courage. Always.
4/15/2017 10:59:00 PM
---
nah, when a venue holder wants you out you leave, period. Say you have a contract to do a roof, and the owner says he wants the roofer gone. What do you do officer? Ya, the contract is secondary right?
What happens when they kick someone out of Wrigley? Does the drunk get to say "I have a ticker, you can't kick me out?"
Come on. The civil stuff is secondary.
Anonymous said...
So a lawful order was given many times to the passenger his response "I'm not leaving "many times by united Airlines, many times by the officers on location so my question is ? Is he above the law?
4/16/2017 01:21:00 AM
And what law are you referring to? There is not law that covers this, only a FCC regulation and the policy of the airlines. No one signed a complaint, no one was creating a disturbance, a paying passenger was properly admitted and boarded on the place and the place was not overbooked. So what law are you accusing this doctor of violating? And, to top it off, the DOA cannot give a lawful order and were not supposed to board a plane absent a disturbance and emergency and are not law enforcement officers but security guards. The DOA says so by the way. And, please don't say he deserves this for something he did 15 years ago? United and the city will pay out a lot of money. United will make changes in their policies and the aviation police will also make changes and might even be disbanded.
4/15/2017 07:20:00 AM
absolutely correct. The city can eliminate the job title anytime they want and all of the DOA officers are gone, without recourse.
4/15/2017 05:49:00 PM
Not completely accurate. To Eliminate the DOA Security Officer Position...they have to get the position negotiated out of the Next SEIU 73 Unit II contract. With the blessing of SEIU. With serious concessions by the City to Unit II if we are going to totally FUCK Over 251 Union Members.
Take a look at what the City had to do when the meter privatization deal went through. Every Revenue Meter Mechanic had to be offered a new job to slide into.
Revenue also used to have what is called "Field Supervisor II" positions. They are still in the contract, but there isn't a single one anymore. They are now all Department of Finance Security Staff/Investigators (I know how funny that reads).
You can stop Hiring for a Position...but you can't just get rid of it while it is under contract. And SEIU as already sent in their letter to inform intent to negotiate a new contract.
If your union has Balls...they will never let Management Remove a Job Title from the contracts Just In Case the management wants to suddenly hire a new one to that job title down the road.
So...since every DOA SO went to either Cook County or the City Academy...where would you slide them? Can't Make Dart hire them. They would have to go to CPD and to a district. And most likely they would be used at the Airports because they are already 'trained' in what needs to be known for Airport Operations.
You guys want to hate on the APD...but you have a 912 million dollar payroll this FY and a crap crime rate.
"What happens when they kick someone out of Wrigley? Does the drunk get to say "I have a ticker, you can't kick me out?"
Come on. The civil stuff is secondary.
4/16/2017 10:58:00 AM"
Wrong Mope, the Passenger had a legal binding contract with the Airlines, it's civil matter. It's not a law., he was not infringing on passengers or the flight crew. The Drunk only if he's causing a disturbance can be removed. You ignorance of legal jurisprudence and civil matters is absolutely astounding.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
You guys want to hate on the APD...but you have a 912 million dollar payroll this FY and a crap crime rate.
4/16/2017 05:47:00 PM
We're not hating on the aviation police. We're just saying what they did was very stupid. Very non police like and more like bouncers. BTW our current crime rate has nothing to do with our police capabilities or enforcement ability. It has to do with our current ACLU restricted dept policy politics. I've seen this mentioned here before. It astounds me that you guys don't understand that. Just another example of how you have no clue as to how to think about enforcement from a liability standpoint because you have no real experience 'policing' just providing security.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
So a lawful order was given many times to the passenger his response "I'm not leaving "many times by united Airlines, many times by the officers on location so my question is ? Is he above the law?
4/16/2017 01:21:00 AM
And what law are you referring to? There is not law that covers this, only a FCC regulation and the policy of the airlines. No one signed a complaint, no one was creating a disturbance, a paying passenger was properly admitted and boarded on the place and the place was not overbooked. So what law are you accusing this doctor of violating? And, to top it off, the DOA cannot give a lawful order and were not supposed to board a plane absent a disturbance and emergency and are not law enforcement officers but security guards. The DOA says so by the way. And, please don't say he deserves this for something he did 15 years ago? United and the city will pay out a lot of money. United will make changes in their policies and the aviation police will also make changes and might even be disbanded.
4/16/2017 03:04:00 PM
I think the law he is referring to is Criminal Trespass.
Anonymous said...
"I am so tired of reading about this poor "doctor". When you forcibly disobey a lawful order of the owner of property who does not want you in it or on it and you are told to get out, you have a legal duty to comply with the request of the owner of the property or law enforcement issuing a lawful order. If not, you are trespassing."
I'm tired of shithouse lawyers like yourself making laws up. There was no lawful order that was broken. He paid for his ticket, that's called a legal contract, there was no trespassing Halfwit. He got on the next flight after getting a beat down by some overzealous idiots pimping for UA. Please tell us your not the Police, you need to resign and go back to selling shoes, Moron.
4/15/2017 12:53:00 AM
Did you ever read the "contract"? By the way, your calling the original poster a "shithouse lawyer" "Halfwit" and "Moron" what is that about? Says a lot about you.
Goddam these aviation guys posting on here are really hurting their cause by showing their ignorance of the law and police work. If there was anyone who actually believed that these guys deserved a chance to be the police, they changed their mind after reading the aviation security "officer" posts in contrast with the many posts by sworn LEO who clearly are about 100 times more well-versed in proper procedures and this thing called the Constitution.
All this talk about the Dr. disobeying a "lawful order." What was this Dr. charged with? Nothing. After the shitshow the guards created, this Dr. that didn't follow an imaginary "lawful order" wasn't even arrested. Still hasn't been arrested.
One thing for sure, he will become a wealthy Dr. after this is over.
This might be the end for the "We need guns" aviation commandos.
And BTW, the City can abolish a job title and those guys are gone. Going to the academy has nothing to do with it. They may get offered jobs as Detention Aids, Animal Control, etc as those jobs open up. It may tale a decade for all of them to get into those jobs.
And again, I defy anyone to show any City code, County code or State law that gives aviation any "Police powers." There is none. They are security guards that the city sent to a police academy.
They made their own bed.
It's a learning experience, don't be so quick to jump in & pimp for someone.
As John Wasco from the 014 said years ago, "It takes one second to step into shit, and forever to get out of it."
Played a lot of softball against Bear back in the day.
Anonymous said...
The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs (remember the big deal about that Exempt that used her Badge to push her way to the tarmac to see some big celeb a few years ago?
WTF are you talking about?
050 is allowed to go anywhere in the airport and does. Non-050 need an escort or need special permission to enter the secure side armed because they lack clearance that all 050 have.
CPD should have been called to this incident. No one has answered the question as to why CPD did not handle this. Incidents on planes are always handled by CPD... Why was this different?
4/15/2017 04:53:00 AM
Because the Aviation dispatchers give out the info first to AP (tho they handle nothing really but opening gates, re-setting heart machines etc), don't ask why, CPD doesn't know either. Then they RUN to a job and TRY to insert themselves until CPD arrives after dispatch.
Anonymous said...
A large part of this fiasco happened because the new boss of the Aviation police created a Plain clothes Tac Team UNARMED who felt they had to rush to this call and take action. Please tell me what an unarmed tac team is supposed to do on the airfield. Nonsense
4/14/2017 11:33:00 PM
They write tickets to working stiffs for smoking where they're not suppose to, or driving a foot outside/inside the lines, or, and here's a big one: no seat belt!
Anonymous said...
@ 4/14/2017 03:20:00 PM
Why would you want to see City Employees lose their Career Service Jobs due to a Moron in Charge of their department?
The OHare unit of CPD (050 and 051 for Midway IIRC) are all KMA and don't do crap other than write parkers and movers cause they are NOT allowed into the Secure Areas by FAA current Regs...
>>>
You moron, we are badged and are back there handling everything but the moving violations that Aviation does. That's hard work, writing bs tickets to some guy working 3 jobs.
"Did you ever read the "contract"? By the way, your calling the original poster a "shithouse lawyer" "Halfwit" and "Moron" what is that about? Says a lot about you.
4/16/2017 10:41:00 PM"
Certainly did, and it states the Airline will make all reasonable attempts to accommodate the passenger. Unless you consider dragging someone off a plane causing them to suffer a concussion reasonable ? The previous poster was adamant that the crime of trespassing was committed, which in fact never occurred. So perhaps 1/2 wit you should spend less time in the ginmill and more time learning what constitutes a criminal act and what is a civil dispute.
"Did you ever read the "contract"? By the way, your calling the original poster a "shithouse lawyer" "Halfwit" and "Moron" what is that about? Says a lot about you.
4/16/2017 10:41:00 PM"
Certainly did, and it states the Airline will make all reasonable attempts to accommodate the passenger. Unless you consider dragging someone off a plane causing them to suffer a concussion reasonable ? The previous poster was adamant that the crime of trespassing was committed, which in fact never occurred. So perhaps 1/2 wit you should spend less time in the ginmill and more time learning what constitutes a criminal act and what is a civil dispute.
4/18/2017 12:44:00 AM
No, no, no....this is where the feeble brain gets confused. The "contract" you speak of is the civil part you fool. The criminal part is when you are told to leave and don't. You don't own the aircraft dumb fuck just because you bought a ticket.
If the civil contract is canceled and the ticket is no longer valid per the carrier, it is the carriers right to have you taken off their airplane. Also, if you no longer have a valid ticket, you cannot remain inside the secured area of ohare airport. That includes the airplane.
Anonymous said...
If the civil contract is canceled and the ticket is no longer valid per the carrier, it is the carriers right to have you taken off their airplane. Also, if you no longer have a valid ticket, you cannot remain inside the secured area of ohare airport. That includes the airplane.
4/19/2017 11:16:00 AM
OK look, a civil contract cannot be 'canceled' for any ol' arbitrary reason.
Because then it's NOT a contract in the first place. Got that?
If not, try working the other side of your (il)logical argument.
Let's say, you get on the plane. You decide you don't want to sit next to a sweaty guy. So you just cancel the contract, right?
No contract, no obligations. No obligation, no responsibility for the fare, right?
And since the airline sold your seat to somebody else...no damages either.
How's that going to work for you?
Anonymous said...
If the civil contract is canceled and the ticket is no longer valid per the carrier, it is the carriers right to have you taken off their airplane. Also, if you no longer have a valid ticket, you cannot remain inside the secured area of ohare airport. That includes the airplane.
4/19/2017 11:16:00 AM
OK look, a civil contract cannot be 'canceled' for any ol' arbitrary reason.
Because then it's NOT a contract in the first place. Got that?
If not, try working the other side of your (il)logical argument.
Let's say, you get on the plane. You decide you don't want to sit next to a sweaty guy. So you just cancel the contract, right?
No contract, no obligations. No obligation, no responsibility for the fare, right?
And since the airline sold your seat to somebody else...no damages either.
That made absolutely no sense....
Let's look at a similiar situation you might comprehend better than airlines. You order an Uber or Taxi to a certain destination. You get in and the owner of the vehicle decides not to take you. Tells you to get out. By your premise, You don't have to exit, you can sit in the taxi forever. Police are called. But you don't have to get out. You can stay in the cab. Does that make any sense??
Now in the case of the airlines, you may have cause to sue in court for damages if you are not allowed to fly, under the circumstances in the particular situation with united. But once asked to leave by the agent of the company, and you refuse, that is trespass. To go a step farther, once you no longer have a valid airline ticket and refuse a lawful order to leave the secured area, you are committing trespass to ohare airport
Anonymous said....
....you no longer have a valid airline ticket and refuse a lawful order to leave the secured area, you are committing trespass to ohare airport
4/19/2017 08:50:00 PM
-----------
Look -- please PLEASE try to understand the law. It's what keeps you from going to jail just because some jarhead thinks it would be good for you.
United's lawyers wrote a 32000 word contract. It's your ticket.
It lays out certain rights and certain obligations for both parties. That's what contracts do. And if anybody thinks the contract can be cancelled or changed for any reason at any time...well they are WRONG. Then it's not a contract.
You don't have a contract like that with a taxi. They have a duty of care. You have a duty to behave. That's it. No right of access. Pay after you're served. Got that?
The doctor had a valid ticket / contract. He has an implied right of access to the airport, the plane and the seat. Now, United could have denied the guys boarding for a bunch of reasons. The reasons are spelled out. It's called Rule 25. BUT they didn't do that. He boarded the plane.
Once on the plane they could have tried to pull a 'Refusal of Transport'. That's a 'Rule 21'. It deals with all sorts of violent / abusive / disorderly / improperly clothed issues. (BTW, this is exactly where Munoz was trying to go when he claimed that Dao was erratic and abusive to the crew.) But...Rule 21 didn't apply.
Please read this --- There are NO, repeat NO provisions for pulling a boarded, well-behaved, ticketed passenger off of an airplane in a case like this. None. ZERO. (Why in hell do you think that the 'new policy' is to have non-rev crews boarded at least 60 minutes prior to boarding? You think they're doing that for your benefit? Hell no. They're doing it because they were WAY in the wrong here.)
So United doesn't follow their own rules. They pull their standard corporate crap to bully to guy out of his seat. And he didn't play along. That's what it was.
United could have and should have upped their cheap-ass $800 offer to buy back seats from customers. Just like any other business. But they didn't do that either.
....the guy had every right to be exactly where he was, doing exactly what he was, exactly when he was. The guy violated exactly NO law.
Valid ticket + boarded + well-behaved = NO VIOLATION. Got that????
NO VIOLATION = NO TRESPASS.
Civil matter ... until United called in some goofs. That's quite possibly criminal behavior.
Please try to understand the law.
Funny all these how cpd would have handled the situation, I have worked in costumer service for 5 year at the airport and cpd response time and how they handle the situation is a joke. Also cpd guys here are come with cloud.
Anonymous said
"But once asked to leave by the agent of the company, and you refuse, that is trespass. To go a step farther, once you no longer have a valid airline ticket and refuse a lawful order to leave the secured area, you are committing trespass to ohare airport"
4/19/2017 08:50:00 PM
Simply put, No, untrue. And No, also untrue.
Really, I fear for our future.
Just because somebody is a 'representative of the airlines' doesn't mean shit.
Try to understand this. It's not hard. The trespassing is a FALSE claim. No basis for it. The guy had every right to be there.
Don't care if it was Oscar fuckin' Munoz himself screaming shit at the top of his lungs.
Damn. I am trying to help you out here.
Let's say YOU are at the airport. Ticketed. Paid. Boarded your flight. Calm, peaceful.
And your ex-wife is banging the Director of Operations. He gets on the plane and tells you to hit the road because he's a 'representative of the airline'.
Just what do you say - 'Oh sure. Let me get my stuff, please. It'll be trespassing if I don't go, so I'm outa here." That it?
Or do you say - 'I don't think so. You have no basis to make that request. Get lost.'
And what do you say to any 'Enforcement Agents' who show up?
"Yes sir, I'll be getting off of here right quick!" That?
Or something more like: "There is no basis for any action here. I will not be bullied. If you lay hands on me, that will be assault. And if you try to allege trespassing or any criminal conduct I will sue the bejeezus out of you personally and your organization as well. I will win. You will lose"
You want to be a doormat. Fine. Your choice. But that's not the law. Got it?
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