A Political Decision
Herbert has been saying this for months. Turns out, he was completely correct:
- Former Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez has repeatedly denied that her decision to charge Chicago Police Officer Jason Van Dyke with murder in the shooting death of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald was motivated by a looming election — an allegation most recently leveled in court last month by Van Dyke’s lawyer.
But before her announcement on Nov. 24, 2015, that the white cop was being charged with killing the black teenager, Alvarez’s political campaign consultants weighed in on how to present the decision, and she was given key talking points, according to emails obtained by the Chicago Sun-Times.
Now lets's see if the Sun Times manages to stumble into some Garry/Rahm e-mails regarding the shooting? Any communication between the brass on scene, maybe a certain Chief Johnson?
Assorted news stations are reporting that the defense is hiring a polling firm to determine if there can be an unbiased jury located in Cook County. We'll go out on a limb and say, "Nope."
Assorted news stations are reporting that the defense is hiring a polling firm to determine if there can be an unbiased jury located in Cook County. We'll go out on a limb and say, "Nope."
Labels: general
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
69 Comments:
Lets not forget Gene Roy and David McNaughton. The IG recommended that they be fired, but both retired with their gold braid pension. Both political tools their whole career. If not for their clout, they would have been two dogs on a beat car. If four Officers are getting hung out to dry, then at least those two tools should have been hung out as well. After all, where is the accountability?
fucked up shooting....
but he's gonna be found not guilty
and of murder, he is
hold on tight, everybody. it's gonna be a bumpy ride
Any fool can see that this was a political stunt move. Had there been a solid basis for charges, they would have been filed right away.
But the winds of the rabble and the media and the race charlatan cranked up and like a palm tree in a Florida hurricane, it bent over.
Just like it did on George Zimmerman.
Just like it did on the Baltimore 6.
The kid has a better then 50 change of beating this, I've been saying that for months.
This city will burn.... Now add in the indictments of high level democrats involved in the illegal wire taps of candidate Trump,Katy bar the door !
Unbiased jury? This is more the type of jury that Cook County will have - only less diverse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5uztpW5xjU
JVDs best bet is to transfer this case to the other side of state... depending how far or the direction you go— they hate people from Chicago. When I was coming from Arkansas a few years ago, 10 minutes in Illinois, I was pulled over. I slowly let the P.O. know I was an officer. He asked which department, I showed him my federal badge, cause I switch jobs already. He them tells me stories of how he pulled over Chicago guys and how he hates anyone from Chicago. Lucky me I was already living in dupage
He will beat the case but was it worth it I don't think so just don't do anything the job sucks
I thought he chose a bench trial? Why would he go with a Jury trial when he can choose a bench trial? Jury trial is gonna fuck him!
Change of venue. Get a real judge. Go for bench trial. Best chance.
From my experiences as a ASA who did jury trials first in Will County then Cook County, JVD would be better off outside of Cook County. Cook County juries are much more prone to convict in gun cases than the rest of the state. The 1st degree Murder charge is grossly overcharged. The case is either a 2nd Degree Murder (belief that the killing was lawfully justified but the belief was unreasonable which is probationable) or a Not Guilty.
Hahaha as they say 'even stevie wonder could see that'
Jury because it'll be deemed biased and therefore the trail can be thrown out and requests for new location can be obtained for a 'fair trail'
You don’t chose a bench trial until the last minute. You don’t have to declaire until right before the trial starts.
Anonymous said...
I thought he chose a bench trial? Why would he go with a Jury trial when he can choose a bench trial? Jury trial is gonna fuck him!
Anonymous said...
I thought he chose a bench trial? Why would he go with a Jury trial when he can choose a bench trial? Jury trial is gonna fuck him!
1/21/2018 04:28:00 AM
any trial, bench or jury is a roll of the dice, that is why many cases are settled outside of court. A friend of mine, former police officer, had serious allegation lodged against him. Everyone thought and new that these allegations were false. He choose a bench trial. He was convicted of all counts. His lawyer was shocked. After a few years in prison during appeals, the Illinois Appellate court threw his conviction out saying there was no evidence of his guilt. You just never know with either a jury or a judge in Cook County ( which by the way are not selected for judicial knowledge but their connections).
nonymous said...
Lets not forget Gene Roy and David McNaughton. The IG recommended that they be fired, but both retired with their gold braid pension. Both political tools their whole career. If not for their clout, they would have been two dogs on a beat car. If four Officers are getting hung out to dry, then at least those two tools should have been hung out as well. After all, where is the accountability?
1/21/2018 12:34:00 AM
anyone who has worked with these two or knows these two or has spent an evening with them can back up what you are saying. How in the hell did they ever make such rank?
Pick an isolated little Amish county
i being saying this for months, herbert has no clue and this proves it. he has to hire a firm to tell him if he could find a unbiased jury. any one with a half a mind can tell him that. i really really feel sorry for this kid. from what i been hearing there is a problem in the fop over Herbert being assign this case. is there a internal struggle going on with in the fop over Herbert being assigned this case? was the person who assigned him this case told not to? why did this person who was told not to assign Herbert assign him anyway? why would Herbert be assigned this case when he never defended anyone in a murder trail? this incident is the biggest case the fop has to defend one of their members since the burge case. look who burge had as an attorney, a season well respected ex states attorney. Herbert has made several mistakes and his mistakes might come back t0 hurt Jason.
It is a bench trial. Gawne will convict on 2nd degree.
I read all the comments on how this is a justified shooting. How in the he'll can you justify putting 16 in someone walking away from you. For all those who think that was justified you need some more training before your next on murder charges.
He is doomed,will never get a fair trial anywhere unless it's downstate where BLM people will try to terrorize people. How can anyone find a good enough reason why 16 shots were fired. I hope Dan Herbert does a good job, because he did a SHIT JOB representing coppers kids on that hiring suit..should have taken that $2500.00 and went to the Casino.
I still don't see why evidence in an ongoing murder investigation was slathered all over the news before a charging decision came out, let alone before trial. I'm sure the SAO, even under its current "look the other way" leadership, tries, oh, a murder a week? Why isn't all that footage on the news to be prejudged by all? Because it;s not a cop. as for making it political, everybody made this political, . The voters, jesse, foxx even used it in her commercial ffs, the pillar of integrity SHE is. Did the press limit their garbage to facts only and not politicize this? Do they ever anymore? No. This was a no win case. If it was charged immediately it would have been "he was charged so fast for political reasons". If it was charged the way it was, well we can see, "it was chargfed the way it was for political reasons". If he wasn't charged, it would have been "he wasn't charged for political reasons". So she got political advice from her political advisor about a political topic (BLM), whoopee.
EDDIE JOHNSON will "not" be touched until after the election,from some "unknown" reason the citizens have been hypnotized....
I would never use Herbert or his firm. Two friends of mine used his firm to fight the city because they disqualified them from the police test because they admitted to smoking marijuana as teens. Herbert charged them $4000 each and came totally unprepared for the hearing. Tried to use the argument that the city could not prove that it was actually marijuana that they were smoking. They lost and Herbert wanted $10,000 more to appeal the results.
12:51 AM Truer words were never spoken!
Lets not forget Gene Roy and David McNaughton. The IG recommended that they be fired, but both retired with their gold braid pension.
Nauseating.Had the unpleasure to work with both of these tools...selfserving political hacks.
Just like it did on George Zimmerman.
Just like it did on the Baltimore 6.
Just like it did on Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Mo
Speaking of Political Decisions, story in Scum Times today about Rahm using O'Hare 100 million dollar janitors contract over McCarthy and his friend Rick Simons head. It's actually the other way around because wants in the worst way the current D.O.A. Clout-Tards job and a significant pay cut to them, stay tuned it's gonna get sloppy.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
JVDs best bet is to transfer this case to the other side of state... depending how far or the direction you go— they hate people from Chicago. When I was coming from Arkansas a few years ago, 10 minutes in Illinois, I was pulled over. I slowly let the P.O. know I was an officer. He asked which department, I showed him my federal badge, cause I switch jobs already. He them tells me stories of how he pulled over Chicago guys and how he hates anyone from Chicago. Lucky me I was already living in dupage
1/21/2018 02:00:00 AM
I’m sure that’s what he is trying to do, but that’s not his choice. He can ask for a change of venue but the judge has to issue in and it doesn’t appear by his rulings that he is a fan
Then who knows where the change of venue if approved would end up
>>>I thought he chose a bench trial? Why would he go with a Jury trial when he can choose a bench trial? Jury trial is gonna fuck him!<<<
Because his lawyer only has to convince one person that his client isn't guilty in order to get an acquittal.
Not saying Van Dyke is guilty.....but most defendants who knows they're guilty goes for a jury trial because of the aforementioned reason.
He can still demand a bench trial outside of crook county.
Do you believe there is any fair/impartial judge in northern Ill?
They are all DemoCraps and will follow party orders.
Even if he beats this case his life has been destroyed. Isn't that the goal of the Liberal snakes.
Using POLICE as political pawns?
Who said that first?
Alvarez is a rat and we all knew that so it’s no surprise when her scheme was uncovered.
She’s just as biased as her rat replacement.
Now comes the Rahm political factor -
Jugghead Special Ed’s complicity was known and intended to be Rahm’s “insurance policy”, a good enough reason to pick a him, an unknown, to replace wicked white Gmac.
Jugghead is on the out on his own accord, one way or another way BEFORE the Feb 2019 Primary.
This case is going to drag a bit longer, only so Cabrini alum KimJongFxxx can save Juggie’s Gold Braid Pension.
The taxpaying portion of the voting block could care less about who or what the CPD Superintendent will be, but in the community is where the votes are lacking for Rahm. Tossing Swolthead under the bus before the election...oh, hell no.
Replacing a sickly and tired SwoltJug and installing an Interim Supe is likely, but it’s not going to be Slick Ricc.
If you listen carefully, you can hear the slow clippity-clop of a lumbering camel.
All this because of a crazed, violent, feral knife wielding, gubmint supported community hazard.
Nobody getting any of the blame but the Police.
I'm sure the judge made it clear that he wants no part of making the final decision, hence the jury choice. If a bench trial was chosen, the judge would make it even more difficult and unfavorable. As far as the upper brass and the mayor plus fifty not knowing; we all know that is steaming dogshit.
Of course it was political, as is everything! when will rahm be deposed on when he saw the video? Of course he is a democrat and he lied as usual, when will big mouth New Yorker "i want to mayor" Gary finally strap on something and come out with it? why is Gary so scared?Will the big bosses who quickly resigned and are getting that 6 figure get pulled in as they should be!
The tragedy here is JVD is getting totally stuck to him especially after the big assholes in the exempt ranks signed off and patted JVD on the back and said "good shoot!" Talked to some younger skulls full of mush type of coppers who say "I would never do anything like that!" my reply is "Do you idiots actually think that JVD thought he would be involved in a situation such as that?"
Lets talk collusion and culpability here the chain that needs to be reeled in:
*Anita (I play baseball in my office) Alvarez
*Toni (what happened to my bullshit stupid soda tax) Prinkwinkle
*Rahm (I didnt see no video until I saw it liar)
* Dave (great job kid) Mcnothing
* Eddie (Leave me alone I know nakia cheated but she be my girl)Johnson
* Kevin (I am/was the first deputy what do I do in this job oh right grab the pension) Navarro
*Al (Keep everything quiet I'm hiding inside office gettin big pension, got my wife a promotion called 1-800-Ich-eatm) wysinger (silent Al)
And many more add your own!
JVD is being railroaded worse than anyone else,but don't worry look at the other side Kimmy-Tommy-Toni and the rest are letting murderers out of jail,and rahm is giving them millions is taxpayers going money, you bastardize and innocent copper and then give the thugs and illegal criminals free rein!!
God Bless the police,JVD and Dan Herbert the only chance to help a brother in Blue! Hope the big payday is coming for JVD say even 100 million would not cover what the mayor and his pathetic lying crew did to him!
how does new 1st deputy get away clean... wasn't he deputy chief
Just because some political guru weighs in on something because he thinks he has a role, does not make it so nor does it make his “opinion” matter.
5-7 shots he's good,jury is gonna find him guilty,stay fetal.
He can still demand a bench trial outside of crook county.
Do you believe there is any fair/impartial judge in northern Ill?
They are all DemoCraps and will follow party orders.
He cannot demand a bench trial. He has to request a change of venue, can’t demand one.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
>>>I thought he chose a bench trial? Why would he go with a Jury trial when he can choose a bench trial? Jury trial is gonna fuck him!<<<
Because his lawyer only has to convince one person that his client isn't guilty in order to get an acquittal.
Not saying Van Dyke is guilty.....but most defendants who knows they're guilty goes for a jury trial because of the aforementioned reason.
<
Because his lawyer only has to convince one person that his client isn't guilty in order to get an acquittal. Where did you come up with that? You cannot possibly be the police and make that statement. The jury has to be unanimous for both a guilty or acquittal verdict. Have you ever heard of a hung jury. That’s when they can’t get a unanimous verdict. Then it’s up to the ASA if they want to try the case again which is what they will do in thus case
I hope the cheerleaders of Anita Alvarez pays close attention to this thread and this blog amd article.
Kimm Foxx AND Anita Alvarez are/were horrible, backstabbing political hacks . They will cut your throat and back stab you and throw you under the bus in a minute. BOTH of them are terrible State's Attorneys: Only good to their lackey
Another political decision what is the land of fruits and nuts California up to now? The corrupt state of Illinois will be next watch and see the corrupt judges a California are just like a corrupt judges hear what or how much to charge in California got paid off?
California to register illegal aliens to vote – automatically
Read more at http://mobile.wnd.com/2018/01/major-state-to-register-illegal-aliens-to-vote-automatically/#wLmGAeLmRVWVjqOi.99
Anonymous Anonymous said...
i being saying this for months, herbert has no clue and this proves it. he has to hire a firm to tell him if he could find a unbiased jury. any one with a half a mind can tell him that. i really really feel sorry for this kid. from what i been hearing there is a problem in the fop over Herbert being assign this case. is there a internal struggle going on with in the fop over Herbert being assigned this case? was the person who assigned him this case told not to? why did this person who was told not to assign Herbert assign him anyway? why would Herbert be assigned this case when he never defended anyone in a murder trail? this incident is the biggest case the fop has to defend one of their members since the burge case. look who burge had as an attorney, a season well respected ex states attorney. Herbert has made several mistakes and his mistakes might come back t0 hurt Jason.
FOP assigned him to this case? Sometimes when you are fighting for your life you have to get your own lawyer. Can’t believe FOP is paying for this case this is a $500,000 case
Seems some people don’t seem to understand that you can’t just get a change of venue. There has to be a hearing and the judge decides if there is sufficient cause and evidence to grant one. It is not a right
Someone accused of a crime generally has the right to a fair trial by an impartial jury. But a defendant doesn't have the right to a trial in the county of his choice
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I thought he chose a bench trial? Why would he go with a Jury trial when he can choose a bench trial? Jury trial is gonna fuck him!
1/21/2018 04:28:00 AM
-----
Prolly looking for a hung jury... cause the judges in CC hate the police and give asshole a pat on the head, bread of Christ and and a sip of wine
And to think instead of being happy that he was being allowed to retire, Roy was upset that he was being forced out before he turned 63. I am sure the four Officers would have been ecstatic to be given that option. What a Jackass!
“But the department also said in a letter to lawmakers that its record of messages sent to and from the agent, Peter Strzok, was incomplete because the FBI, for technical reasons, had been unable to preserve and retrieve about five months’ worth of communications.”
Did anyone ask Walsh if he took them home with Vanecko/Koschman files?
I was reading the story planted by the Emanuel Camp to try and intimidate McCarthy in today's paper, and hope Rahm is ready for Garry's "October Suprise." Rick Simon plays Hard Ball as do his former friends and he has $100 Million reasons to destroy Emanuel. If you think McCarthy is going to back down from his taking over the Aviation Goofs $20 Million contract you are crazy. Emanuel is toast he should have been more careful and remember things caught on legal wire taps can come back to haunt you.
"i being saying this for months, herbert has no clue and this proves it. he has to hire a firm to tell him if he could find a unbiased jury."
Only reason he's doing it is because having a third party confirm bias (which it will) is the only way he will be able to have it moved. I'm no .esq, but I'm even more thrilled that you aren't. Legalese has roots in Latin, and clearly, the high school you went to cut it before you were a prepping there.
jvd chose Dan Herbert and could have selected any attorney that he wanted to represent him. Who would be better than Herbert? Sam Adams? Yah he would go against jesse on that one! Beyond that he is a police hater. If I’m in that position I want an attorney that thinks like the police because he was and his family was police. JVD has confidence in his attorney and for that so should we. For those that want to make political union hay, find a different subject matter. JVD is a good man in his darkest days and we need him to know we are behind him and his legal team.
https://youtu.be/TkJlZRr788A
The 4:00 minute mark is how you should approach police work until that jag off is locked up! He ruined the city. Bled it dry. He deserves what he gets. And that’s to be a has been that he is. If you do more than that you are the dumb ones.
Dan Herbert has been “ yelled at “ by Judge Gaugh the past four motions and basically told he is unprepared for court . His second in command was told by the judge his is embarrassed for him for” his failure to know the rules of evidence .” Instead of making judgments about what is going on make a stop at the trial and see for yourself . Dean decided who would be Jason’s lawyer . He picked someone who has never tried a murder trial. Bigger case in the country and you have an policeman with an attorneys degree. I hope it works out . If it doesn’t Jason will pay for it . Ask Marco Proano and Aldo Brown what they think of Herbert !
Anonymous Anonymous said...
jvd chose Dan Herbert and could have selected any attorney that he wanted to represent him. Who would be better than Herbert? Sam Adams? Yah he would go against jesse on that one! Beyond that he is a police hater. If I’m in that position I want an attorney that thinks like the police because he was and his family was police. JVD has confidence in his attorney and for that so should we. For those that want to make political union hay, find a different subject matter. JVD is a good man in his darkest days and we need him to know we are behind him and his legal team.
1/21/2018 08:00:00 PM
I have no idea why you would want a lawyer that thinks like the police. No police are on a jury, police aren’t judges or states attorney
I would want an attorney that thinks like a civilian. Who cares what the police think. The civilians will be judging you. You want your attorney to be able to think like civilians and base your case around that Doesn’t matter that every police officer feels he was justified. The question is “does the judge or jury feel he was justified. They will be deciding you fate
I was reading the story planted by the Emanuel Camp to try and intimidate McCarthy in today's paper, and hope Rahm is ready for Garry's "October Suprise." Rick Simon plays Hard Ball as do his former friends and he has $100 Million reasons to destroy Emanuel. If you think McCarthy is going to back down from his taking over the Aviation Goofs $20 Million contract you are crazy. Emanuel is toast he should have been more careful and remember things caught on legal wire taps can come back to haunt you.
Chicago doesn't want anymore outsiders. I'll take the Devil before I EVER vote for a New York piece of s**t.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I read all the comments on how this is a justified shooting. How in the he'll can you justify putting 16 in someone walking away from you. For all those who think that was justified you need some more training before your next on murder charges.
1/21/2018 08:46:00 AM
Go talk to all the retired brass and current Superintendent, all of whom signed off on this shooting and then explain how it's not a justifiable shooting.
Anonymous said...
I read all the comments on how this is a justified shooting. How in the he'll can you justify putting 16 in someone walking away from you. For all those who think that was justified you need some more training before your next on murder charges.
720 5/7-5
he is justified in using force likely to cause death or great bodily harm only when he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or such other person, or when he reasonably believes both that:
(1) Such force is necessary to prevent the arrest from being defeated by resistance or escape; and
(2) The person to be arrested has committed or attempted a forcible felony which involves the infliction or threatened infliction of great bodily harm or is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon, or otherwise indicates that he will endanger human life or inflict great bodily harm unless arrested without delay.
JVD has a chance
The trumped up charges against Van Dyke and then the lead detective are as political as they come.
Van Dyke was way overcharged and the detective never should’ve been charged but Rahm is trying to incessantly pander to “the community” and BLM groups because he got caught sitting on the video for his own political gain.
You know what’s really bullshit? All you guys writing opinions based on supposition rather than fact. Only Jason, his immediate family, and his lawyer know why or why not something is being done.
One fact is that Judge Gawne apparently does not care for his lawyer, Herbert. The judge has repeatedly chastised him in open court for minor things like failing to stand still while speaking to major things like the submission of improperly completed written motions. I’ve been there several times to witness this.
Another fact is that the charge is 1st degree murder and Jason needs a defense attorney who is experienced in this area. His current attorney is cutting his teeth on this case. You don’t hire someone just because he is a friend of the family when your life is hanging in the balance.
jury? are you fucking crazy? why would he demand a jury trial?
4:16pm.....Demanding a change of venue and demanding a bench trial are two totally different things my friend. No... hes not entitled to a change of venue, a judge has to grant one BUT he ABSOLUTLEY has a right to a bench trial if he wishes.
New layers hired by Graham have sued dozens of police officers. Wtf we have to be represented by these scu.bags.what is there connection to current fop? Follow money. Something smells rotten
Murray hired the new lawyers not Graham and there some shady shit going on with these attorneys. What ever happened with his proposal to give them free office space and benefits on the 2nd floor. These attorneys should be called to the next general membership meeting to explain how much money they have made off of suing police! Representing scumbags and discrediting police on the stand!! Let’s forget the fact that they bank rolled Murray’s campaign the last time he ran and this time as well. How does a guy with a no confidence vote against him with our lodge control the legal defense millions? Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out why he wanted that assignment. When people on staff were getting wise to him he fired her and continues to not return calls to members. Our no confidence means shit.
.......
New layers hired by Graham have sued dozens of police officers. Wtf we have to be represented by these scu.bags.what is there connection to current fop? Follow money. Something smells rotten
I would hope that Herbert has subpoenaed and listened the radio traffic from all of the radio zones on the night of the shooting. Exempt members have been known to discuss and give instructions concerning Heater Cases on the auxiliary zones ( citywide 3 or 6 for example). Calling for a meet of all parties involved at an isolated location is standard. Like ‘have everyone meet in the parking lot at Curie before you go in.....’
The scum times dan cockinmouthalos, Rachel Hinton, Dumke, ad Joe Ferguson’s girl Fran spielman have an all out attack on anyone considering running against their boy Rahm. Stories against McCarthy and Bridget gainer are in the paper daily. The next attacks will be on Vallas. Watch the tribune and their clown editor Bruce dold who texts daily with Rahm to join the attack on anyone who dares run against his majesty Rahm Emanuel. The media in this town are pure scum and must be taken to task. Rahm must be defeated by any means necessary.
Now boys, get your facts straight. Pat Murray didn’t hire any attorneys for FOP. Only the Board of Directors can do that and they did. The allegations that one of the attorneys hired sued dozens of Police Officers is a bald faced lie and whoever is perpetuating it doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground.
The attorney was working for former FOP attorney Joe Roddy’s office when the suit was filed. He wound up with the case as an employee of the firm. Seems Joe’s nose was out of joint when his services were no longer needed by the FOP.
The attorney appeared in front of the FOP Board of Directors to explain this before he was hired. His winning credentials apparently convinced the Board to make its decision.
The Board hired two winners and somehow this is a bad thing for us? You’re killin’ me Smalls!
Don’t forget what Dart did to his wife after completing the Cook County Academy. Fired her stating it was for her safety. BS it was because Tommy TV can’t take bad press. When he found out EM Deputies responded, Tommy wanted them disciplined until he found out one attempted CPR.
Darts an asshole and needs to go too
Who knows, never underestimate the power of the government. The new U.S attorney might have been left with a surpassed indictment and unleash the bureau guys to arrest these crooks. The U S Attorney was a ASA here at one time. He is no fool and one day, the USA might have the bureau hit a few door bells at 0400.
Ask Rod, the day before he shot his mouth off and told the government to come and get him if he did anything wrong. Next morning, Ding-Dong.
Rahm, Gerry, special Ed, and the city IG know they have problems. Rahm loves to talk on the phone and to his alleged loyal friends, LOL. There is not a soul to fall on the sword for these J.O'. Little Richie had an army of fall guys under his thumb to take the heat and keep their mouths shut.
Rahm never shuts his mouth about the President and Sessions might start the draining of the swamp here.
Rahm can teach a few classes at club fed, and He can run around buildings to no end like Forrest Gump and just might grow an inch.
Rickey Simon could care less if Gerry hits the shiter.
Those weren't EM deputies... they were sheriff coppers. And no CPR was done. Sheriff copper got in trouble for not doing a report for being on the scene
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