Government Unions Hit Hard
- The coalition of national unions most affected by the Illinois case Janus v. AFSCME Council 31 ruling is predicting an immediate revenue loss as governments stop collecting “fair share” or “agency” fees from non-union employees. “But not the kind of draconian existential threat that the right wing attempted to do when they started this fight,” says Randi Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers.
On Wednesday, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in a 5-4 decision that government workers who choose not to join unions cannot be compelled to pay “fair share” dues.
What we'd like to see is an itemized bill, so that if the police labor organizations ever attempt to donate to Rahm or Madigan or Pritzker or another Daley or any other asshole who begs for our endorsements/votes and then screw us, our pensions, supports insane work rules, etc., then we can reduce their ability to hand over our money in our name.
We write checks to assorted conservative causes and politicians. Then the FOP sends Madigan a check every year.
Why? We don't like the Madigans. They're assholes, both of them. Under a previous regime, the FOP was "encouraged" to contribute to Lisa, not so that she would do our bidding, but so that Mike wouldn't work actively against us, as if neutrality on pension issues was a good thing. We needed an advocate and we got another bloated political pension for a Machine politico. We earn our money and it's high time those utilizing it earned it, too, by representing OUR interests.
We write checks to assorted conservative causes and politicians. Then the FOP sends Madigan a check every year.
Why? We don't like the Madigans. They're assholes, both of them. Under a previous regime, the FOP was "encouraged" to contribute to Lisa, not so that she would do our bidding, but so that Mike wouldn't work actively against us, as if neutrality on pension issues was a good thing. We needed an advocate and we got another bloated political pension for a Machine politico. We earn our money and it's high time those utilizing it earned it, too, by representing OUR interests.
Labels: FOP, national politics
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
77 Comments:
Just saw Rauner on the news and he sounded anti-union by saying it's pro-employee. Democrats are historically pro-union and Republican's are historically anti-union. But I think cop unions are different than ASFCME unions.
SCC, you can get a refund of the portion of your dues that goes to political contributions. That's been true for 20 years, under Communication Workers of America v. Beck.
Yes! Being that the Union Head Honchos only care about a political spot while working their 4 to 5 hour days (if that), it's time for like minded people in this department to stop paying dues since the current (and most past) regimes only care about themselves and their individual power. They do NOTHING about this out-dated residency rule, just so they can keep the politicians happy; they do NOTHING to provide an opposing voice in the media to the anti-police beating we take every day in the news. I think if people stop paying dues (Since the SCOTUS says we can't be forced anymore), then maybe the FOP will do more to actually help the rank and file instead of serving themselves. Not a penny or endorsement should ever go to a corrupt fraud like Madigan ever again!
I'm opting out immediately.
Hope this diminishes the power of the Democrats who promised us all kind of things over the years but actually screwed us.
I'm calling the union tomorrow to stop my contribution.
SLippery slope.
So who would you donate money to to fix pensions?
Past PREZ Donahues GIG is taking people to lunch downstate.
Whats next if a Union gives a NON for profit money as donation such as PHIL CLINE charity is that gonna be the same thing?
Two interesting elements here.
1. Albeit debatable as to quality and quantity of benefit, Union position is: Members benefit from Union, Union Dues are obligated.
2. Member position is: Precisely what are my Dues being expended upon? Precisely. That means in clear, plain English and Mathematically precise.
Thus, this ruling seems quite effective at empowering the members of the unions affected in requiring accountability from their union officials. This, by negating the mandatory obligation of paying for benefits achieved, leaving the paying to be voluntary.
Those members not inclined to effective thievery will pay, yet may well require their union officoals to strip the union's financials buck naked, for all members to examine thoroughly.
For some unions' officials, this prospect resembles, to them, well, the K Bandit can relate the icky details much better than I.......
Well I’m out
Say what you will about the union but it provides the most invaluable asset to all of us and that's the legal defense fund. I was lucky to have that at available and Im still on the job because of it. Legal bills for criminal defense can run in the tens of thousands, in high profile cases like JVD Im sure that bill will run 6 figures. Im more than happy to pay my dues and if I ever hit the lottery woild greatfully donate to that fund.
So my question is if you opt out from the FOP do you still receive all the contractual benefits that have been negotiated including the legal defense fund. Maybe an FOP officer can answer?
Union bashing is in vogue. But who really allowed these pensions to go unfunded? The members or the elected officials who approved the contracts? Then those same officials who want the money and votes deferred,skipped and skimmed those pensions.
Michael Madigan can eat shit
We can’t have it both ways. The FOP local and National were/are balls deep into Trump. His SC pick was the 5th vote against organized labor. If you don’t think the FOP is getting you a fair contract then publicly drop out of Union and bargain for yourself. We wanted Trump and this is what we get. He stands up there and loves our profession, but truly what has he done at all to help us in the last 2 yrs? This is just the beginning. Wait until they change the Medicare system and all the retirees are further fucked. Ask the FOP who we donate to and how much.
some of the comments from the commies at CTU were hilariously stupid as usual. they forgot two tried and true points.
it's for the childrem
people will die
union wonks across the board only care about themselves and political pets.
both cut from the same cloth.
Thank you Bruce Rauner
What are we getting from the 80,000 dollars a year being paid to our "Springfield lobbyist"Mr "I won't go away because I have no life"Mark Donahue.This man is a scam and should be banished.
They will never be interested in our interests.
After seeing all the political adds with various unions supporting JB, I am glad for this decision.
SCC - exceptionally well-said. Thank you.
I'm still going to contribute just because of the legal defense fund. Don't care ab6it until you need it.
This Law is not good for anyone in any union! Why would this Janus turn his back on the only people who would go to bat for him if he was in trouble?
How ironic that the FOP would donate to the Madigan Crime Family ? Basically the FOP was paying protection, we won't do anything for ya but we won't do anything against ya ? High time that Bullshit stops
The union protects you in the case of you being brought up in court, being a member of the fraternal order of police also helps with negotiating contracts, the unit also represents everyone as a whole you could’ve always got yourself out of the union if you did not want to be a member of the union just signed you don’t want to be a member than you lose your union representation and your union benefits. So to all the people that are saying that they are going to get out of the union you better hope you can raise enough money to get a lawyer when you get easily jammed up on this job that’s something to think about. Not saying are you what is the best it is not by any stretch of the imagination but at least we have somebody up there to fight for some of us the people that are going to stay members of the union. Have you ever been to internal affairs have you ever been question? Personally I have it was nice to have the union send the lawyer at no extra cost to me to represent me in a case that could’ve taken my job for me all I lost was a couple of days pay it could’ve went the other way and I would’ve had to pay tens of thousands of dollars for the representation it’s something to think about!
I’m out, I’ll start paying my dues once residency is lifted
I'm calling the union tomorrow to stop my contribution.
Omg coppers can be so stupid sometimes. Go ahead and opt out but don’t be crying or asking for a benefit when you get into a jam. Good luck on your own.
I can see opting out of unions. But the FOP union? I dont think so. The legal defence fund alone is worth it. Ask old timers how this job was before the FOP. Indiscriminate assignment changes, shifts changes etc. Just to screw with you. You think things are bad now? Opting out is a bad idea.
The union in this case failed to do what unions do - negotiate. Had they offered to establish separate and mutually exclusive funds, one for collective bargaining and one for PACs, they would likely have avoided this. But although I was a union officer for many years, I hated being compelled to support their political leaning once I had to leave the union.
now maybe unions will work harder to earn their dues
To my way of thinking, the solution is simple.
Stop union contributions to political figures / parties.
No union is going to represent the views of ALL its members and its unfair to the minority? for them to fund the opposition.
Have regular union dues and a separate, voluntary, political fund(s). See how that goes for the politicians.
If I were still on the job I would be out immediately.
"Unions should use the case as a wake-up call and realize they fail their members when they disregard their mission. Party loyalty at all cost has a high cost with shifting political winds. It is time the nation’s unions take notice. When a political party has your unconditional allegiance, the party neglects to see your issues as a priority."
http://dailycaller.com/2018/06/28/janus-shows-unions-stopped-advocating-for-workers/
Bad decision for the police.
I am a Trumpist and generally agree with Republicans about 75% of the time. This decision is in the other 25%.
This is merely designed to destroy your union and your only protections by starving it financially.
Imagine doing this job without a union to protect you today.
They want you to be at-will employees making about $12 an hour, with no benefits.
I have zero problem with the union donating to pols who I don’t like, just like I have zero problem with my dentist performing a necessary root canal.
Keep emotions out of this, don’t be fools.
You need your union, but many of them, and seems like FOP is one, are broken. The reps don't work for the members, they work for the scraps thrown to them by elected machine politicians. This ruling is all part of the ongoing disruption in government caused by years of cronyism and theft by politicians(on both sides) of taxpayers earnings. Either change your union and politicians, hold them accountable, make them work for their constituency, understand where your dues and taxes are going, or watch it all collapse. People are fed up, which is why Trump is in the WH, not Hillary.
So my question is if you opt out from the FOP do you still receive all the contractual benefits that have been negotiated including the legal defense fund. Maybe an FOP officer can answer?
If you opt for Fair Share you still get the contract benefits. You do not get legal defense. No lawyers. Not sure about grievance procedure.
Van Dyke's legal bills may hit half million $.
Regarding AFSME being an invaluable asset: When Mayor Harold brought AFSME into Chicago I and a number of other white employees at the Dept.of Buildings lost our civil service titles by being downgraded or written out of the budget. Those vacated slots were then filled by Harold supporters under different titles. Same work, more pay, different titles. Never did anyone from AFSME represent us even though we were forced to pay into this union for a year. Daley continued this practice. Anyway, water under the bridge: I was younger and it changed the way I viewed our government and its leaders. My dream was to cross any picket line set up by AFSME. Now it will never come true.
I think FOP should take this as a warning. Why should I pay if I don't need to? They will represent me anyway, right?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Union bashing is in vogue. But who really allowed these pensions to go unfunded? The members or the elected officials who approved the contracts? Then those same officials who want the money and votes deferred,skipped and skimmed those pensions.
6/28/2018 02:29:00 AM
Don't forget our own pension fund managers in a possible criminal act took over 60 million in "our money" and gave it to DV urban realty the daley families nephews and poof all gone! An amount like this who got the envelopes stuffed with cash as a payoff at the pension board? 60 million would of went a long way to help retirees with health care especially after the vicious pos rahm ripped it away and gave it to the illegals for city id program to buy illegal votes!
Then this headline:
Feds to begin distributing grant money to non-sanctuary cities
The article in the Washington times says hundreds of millions will be given but thanks to rahm standing up for illegal criminal the taxpayers here will be forced to payout for the cremains the democratic way!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So my question is if you opt out from the FOP do you still receive all the contractual benefits that have been negotiated including the legal defense fund. Maybe an FOP officer can answer?
6/28/2018 02:27:00 AM
The answer is NO! Thats like asking can I shop at Sams/costco and get member's benefits without being a member! Just common sense, how stupid can you be really?
If people are upset with the union, then get involved.
For all that Rauner is criticizing public unions for, he's simply trying to make it boomerang in his favor by bringing the vote back to him. He's a lousy person and couldn't care less about any one of us. He is not the kind of person who would stop to help you change a tire, much less use the bathroom in one of his 9 houses. We are unruly, uneducated peons to people like he and Emanuel.
So, to say it once again: if you don't like the power structure of our union, get involved. If not, don't be complaining when you get jammed up and the union doesn't have the money to help you out with your legal fees.
This was part of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker's Act 10 that passed in 2011. Limited collective bargaining to wages only and prohibited employers from forcing union dues payments.
What about da mob? Don't they get a cut from those unions?
FOP and PBPA better settle our new contract FAST or we will be leaving them without a job!
Can I sue and get all my union dues returned since 1972?
Always seemed odd to me that so many government workers were politically conservative yet belonged to unions.
Here is the conservative view of government unions:
How does a public-sector union work? Easy. First the state creates a monopoly. Workers in that monopoly create a union. The monopoly forces taxpayers to fund those workers, whether they do a good job or not. The union then coerces workers to pay dues whether they want to or not. The union uses those dues to help fund political advocacy that perpetuates their monopoly and the union’s influence. So, in other words, racketeering.
http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/01/destroy-public-sector-unions/
To me the bottom line is the FOP is now forced to show their value to the rank and file. No more non-responsiveness, no more positioning themselves for a follow on cushy political job at the expense of the those they are representing. Not only must the city be held accountable for the pension mess, but now the union leadership is now going to be held accountable for their actions to force an acceptable resolution.
will not make any real difference in the long run. what needs to happen is a complete separation of union bargaining efforts from the political and lobbying efforts. perhaps banning union from engaging in lobbying and political activities except through a PAC and a complete ban on funding the pac with dues money.
Plus jagoff rahm standing up for illegals caused this also:
Feds to begin distributing grant money to non-sanctuary cities
https://m.washingtontimes.com
Excerpt:
A federal district judge had ruled for Chicago, but issued a nationwide injunction saying the conditions couldn’t be applied to any Byrne grants.
The Justice Department put nearly $200 million in 2017 money on hold as the case proceeded.
But on Tuesday an appeals court narrowed the ruling, saying that while the district court could decide the fate of Chicago’s practices, it couldn’t tie the hands of the entire country.
After the stay was granted, the Justice Department promptly moved to begin the distribution of nearly $200 million in Byrne JAG funds to jurisdictions that share the department’s commitment to keeping criminal aliens off our streets and our law abiding citizens safe,” said Justice spokesman Devin O’Malley. “Reviews of some applications remain ongoing.”
#again rahm we are losing the law and order taxpayers losing millions thanks to you and the rest of the criminal democrats read the article money to be used for LAW ENFORCEMENT! You understand now? Democrats keep pandering for votes even going as far as to give illegals identification cards so they can illegally vote, wouldn’t this be against the law?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So my question is if you opt out from the FOP do you still receive all the contractual benefits that have been negotiated including the legal defense fund. Maybe an FOP officer can answer?
6/28/2018 02:27:00 AM
Not a FOP officer and can see where you receive the contractual benefits, but why would the FOP be required to give you a union lawyer if you are not a FOP member.
That’s how it was for fair share. You received everything except legal reprwsentation
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So my question is if you opt out from the FOP do you still receive all the contractual benefits that have been negotiated including the legal defense fund. Maybe an FOP officer can answer?
6/28/2018 02:27:00 AM
According to law and procedures regarding unions the answer is yes (at this time) It is always possible that a temporary restraining order could be issued as the unions raise issues. However, there is no other appeal on this case as the U.S. Supreme Court is the final stop in appeals.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Just saw Rauner on the news and he sounded anti-union by saying it's pro-employee. Democrats are historically pro-union and Republican's are historically anti-union. But I think cop unions are different than ASFCME unions.
6/28/2018 12:12:00 AM
Technically the FOP is not a union, rather a fraternal organization that negotiates our contracts! It is funny how some on the blog are upset with the fact that unions lost in this issue, yet all they do is bitch about the FOP. Cant have it both ways ladies and gents!
FOP is not a union. It's simply a bargaining unit.
Anyone that leaves the FOP loses the Legal Defense benefit. Legal Defense is a benefit of membership, not a contractual benefit.
Unions collect a lot of money for various internal needs like picnics, health care, legal services, rent and member strike funds.
Unions like to raid those budgets for and to elect Democrats and always leave the membership dry with reduced or without benefits.
Layoffs and downsizing will be needed to keep up the expected amounts of cash flowing to the elected cockroaches.
Good thing FOP is different.
They don’t dole out millions for obama-clintons-Madigan s like the big pockets of CTU, AFSME and SEIU.
I think the CTU will be crying bigly when they start seeing the membership dropouts.
Rahm & the Corrupt 48 won’t be seeing campaign money, could this be the end of that 2% pension contribution?
The cash cow just went to slaughter.
The spigot was closed, not completely but enough for Unions to rethink how much they get for what’s given.
What will Chicago Cook Co Dems do without that free money sham?
Many expensive lawsuit appeals for starters.
ssc not to talk down to you but as i have posted for many years the reason why the fop contributes is for get merit promotions for their politically connnected friends everybody knows that eddie burke and madigan control the specialized clout units, if you are vet like me andin edison park there are no promotions.
a friend cpd 016
FOP better cut salaries immediately and cut positions. Send only 5 to the National conferences. Last years Nashville meeting must have cost many thousands of dollars. It was at an extremely expensive resort.
Anonymous said...
Anyone that leaves the FOP loses the Legal Defense benefit. Legal Defense is a benefit of membership, not a contractual benefit.
6/28/2018 12:25:00 PM
Not accurate.
They will never be interested in our interests.
6/28/2018 06:43:00 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
After seeing all the political adds with various unions supporting JB, I am glad for this decision.
The porcelain prince.
6/28/2018 06:49:00 AM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So my question is if you opt out from the FOP do you still receive all the contractual benefits that have been negotiated including the legal defense fund. Maybe an FOP officer can answer?
If you opt for Fair Share you still get the contract benefits. You do not get legal defense. No lawyers. Not sure about grievance procedure.
There is no fair share after this decision.This decision eliminated it. The whole point was that unions cannot demand membership nor collect dues for fair share if one opts out of the Union.
Gov Rauner won BIG on this one. Even if he is defeated by Fat JB, the results of this decision may be felt nationwide for a long time. Congrats on the win????
Graham Crackers sent out a response : Won’t hardly affect FOP.
There are some Members that balk and squawk about getting nothing for their Dues and express desires not to join or maintain paying FOP.
I expect they will have that opportunity to walk away from under the past Fair Share obligations
How does this affect the disenchanted member of the Dept no longer affiliated with FOP once those few leave?
Are they still afforded Contract bargained wages, benefits and job protections should they opt-out of FOP?
Don’t pay dues but reap the bennies?
Kind of like those S/S house mice getting Duty Availability yet never seeing the inside of a Beat car for years or at night.
We’ll see.
Will this ruling jeopardize the FOP picnic? I really enjoy the pony ride. Cooter
Don’t think for a minute that we have the best and brightest attorneys handling our cases. We get representation, and that’s about it. I suspect numerous starving attorneys may avail themselves on a contractual basis to our membership. It might mirror protection similar fo CC insurance. If you get in trouble, we will represent you.
FOP needs to understand that they have too many high salaried positions getting captains pay. Lavash Lodge expense accounts and national FOP meetings where 50 or our reps attend is slightly excessive.
The political endorsements should be carefully vetted and not given out without some benefits accruing to the Lodge. I am often mystified at some of the endorsements.
to hell with union busters, let the billionaires starve
What if WE pay into a different fop to represent us legally? These chumps don’t know how to negotiate
Why should PPo’s be required to pay FOP dues?
If you opt out you still benefit from what the fop negotiates. However you lose any representation when you or your partner get into some shit and need someone there to make sure your rights are protected. You lose the lawyers that are available to you due to the legal defense fund that is available to you. You lose the life insurance that is provided to you should the unfortunate happen. You lose the right to grieve when that particular boss starts fucking with you. If thats not worth the 500 dollars then go put a lawyer on retainer and never bitch when that jag off boss won’t let you off for that wedding or birthday you want to attend. See how much that will cost you. And see how much it costs when you or your partner does the right thing but it comes back to haunt you. Thats why you pay that money. Not the bullshit raise that the city decides to give us
I know several officers that have had to fight to be provided with FOP attorneys...it’s not automatic that you get one... perhaps this will change now that officers can leave...
The decision was based in part on the involvement of public service unions donations to political groups and candidates that members do not wish to be part of. The ramifications are an opt in situation. possibly two tiered, Fair share, and full membership. In our profession anyone who dismisses the legal representation is a fool.. This really affects teachers unions and AFSCME.. Private unions are not affected by the Janus Decision. Now the City could eliminate all together union deductions from payroll deductions and make it more difficult for all unions to collect funding/dues.
Anonymous said...
Why should PPo’s be required to pay FOP dues?
Why shouldn’t they? They receive benefits minus the ones listed in the addendum listed in the onteacr
6/28/2018 11:24:00 PM
Wrong. You can't lose your union membership thanks to this SCOTUS decision if you decide to OPT out of Dues Payment. This actually benefits people that are Made to Pay Dues in a "Fair Share" shop Job. Like the Part Time Traffic Aides at OEMC for example.
This makes the Union Flunkies you guys and gals love to Bitch about here have to actually WORK for the Membership, and not for what they are trying to get from City Hall for their Kids or other family members if they FUCK you.
You don't lose your right to Grieve. You don't lose your Weingarten Right. You don't Lose your Right to a Steward being Present for any type of conversation that Might result in a disciplinary action. You don't Lose Bupkis as a Union Member.
The E Boards and Field Reps and VP's and Presidents and whatever damn Voted on Local Union Position now have to actually Worry about their paycheck if they Piss off the Membership.
This is a Win for Union Members. You're bitching because you are 1 of 2 things....
1. A White Shirt
2. A Punk that doesn't know Crap about Labor Law in the US.
6/28/2018 05:00:00 PM
As a Union Member, which is Required by your Position, you are required under Federal Labor Law to be covered regardless of "Fair Share" or "Full Member" Status.
FEDERAL LABOR LAW. Period.
The Court’s opinion did recognize, though, that Unions are free to refuse to represent non-members in disciplinary matters, and to charge non-members for the cost of representing them if the Union chooses to do so. (See decision – footnote 6, page 17).
Bruce Rauner and Donald Trump have our backs! (About as much as the little cocksucker from Wilmette).
Blogger Andrew Petersen said...
6/28/2018 11:24:00 PM
Wrong. You can't lose your union membership thanks to this SCOTUS decision if you decide to OPT out of Dues Payment. This actually benefits people that are Made to Pay Dues in a "Fair Share" shop Job. Like the Part Time Traffic Aides at OEMC for example.
This makes the Union Flunkies you guys and gals love to Bitch about here have to actually WORK for the Membership, and not for what they are trying to get from City Hall for their Kids or other family members if they FUCK you.
You don't lose your right to Grieve. You don't lose your Weingarten Right. You don't Lose your Right to a Steward being Present for any type of conversation that Might result in a disciplinary action. You don't Lose Bupkis as a Union Member.
The E Boards and Field Reps and VP's and Presidents and whatever damn Voted on Local Union Position now have to actually Worry about their paycheck if they Piss off the Membership.
This is a Win for Union Members. You're bitching because you are 1 of 2 things....
1. A White Shirt
2. A Punk that doesn't know Crap about Labor Law in the US.
6/29/2018 06:33:00 PM
Blogger Andrew Petersen said...
6/28/2018 05:00:00 PM
As a Union Member, which is Required by your Position, you are required under Federal Labor Law to be covered regardless of "Fair Share" or "Full Member" Status.
FEDERAL LABOR LAW. Period.
I think you have no idea of what you are talking about
You may be mad about this decision , but remember you do need the FOP for legal reasons. Best pay for that because, you can get sued if you put cuffs on to tight. The one Union that will really get pissed off is the Teachers union and seiu they funnel $$$$ to the Demorat machine even if some teachers do not want that.
I think you have no idea of what you are talking about
6/30/2018 11:14:00 AM
You appear to be confusing yourself with the commenter you quoted.
Perhaps you will clarify, perhaps you will not.
You do get credit for brevity, such as it's worth.
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