Is it the Lights?
There has been some speculation as to the strobes on emergency vehicles being distrating to the point of acting like bug zappers - attracting drivers inside a certain radius where the hypnotic effect of the lights leaves drives with inadequate reaction time at higher speeds. We're beginning to think there's something to this after this news story:
- The Posen Fire Department took to social media to warn drivers after Posen fire engine 2805 was struck by a vehicle on I-57 Saturday night.
“This is the 2nd Fire Engine struck on I-57 in the past 2 weeks in addition to the 2 fatalities involving State Troopers on Chicago Area Expressways,” officials stated in a Facebook post.
Fire officials said the firefighter in the vehicle was not injured, but the offender was transported to the hospital.
Two fire trucks, fifteen state police vehicles and who knows how many other first responders.. There's something here and it isn't all intoxicated drivers (though that seems to be the majority). Perhaps the old "Pull to the Right for Sirens and Lights" needs some sort of update? We've seen fire trucks on the left (and some police). If that's where the equipment needs to be, then that's where it'll be. But when people assume the strobes are on the right, when they're actually on the left, bad things can happen at 60 or 70 MPH, especially on curves.
Ultimately, the responsibility is on the striking vehicle. But after a bad spate like this, all factors should be looked at, if only to prevent the next one of us getting injured or killed.
Ultimately, the responsibility is on the striking vehicle. But after a bad spate like this, all factors should be looked at, if only to prevent the next one of us getting injured or killed.
Labels: safety issues
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
96 Comments:
I drive I-55 a lot, to the state line. Various departments, as well as the ISP, make stops along my route.
Some of their emergency lights are unnecessarily bright, some have far too MANY lights (sometimes of different colors and frequencies) and some are just plain blinding because of how they're aimed in the eyes of passing drivers.
Most of the time, you can move over, but often you STILL have to avert your eyes or hold a hand up to block the brightness or oscillation. It's overkill and it may very well be contributing to the accident rate.
I’ve driven on highways at all times of day and night. I’ve seen all types of emergency vehicles with their emergency lights on, and never once have I ever even come close to hitting one. And I’d assume it’s the same for all of you, it’s no special skill. It may be hard to tell what side they’re on from a long distance, but you can see what side with plenty of room to make adjustments as you get closer. These assholes just get caught being nosy, staring at the lights wanting to know what happened, and end up drifting without knowing because they’re so focused on the lights as opposed to the road. They’re jerkoffs who can’t maneuver their vehicle or resist the urge to fly into the lights. They’re like moths driving 3000lb vehicles. Fuck’em. Hitting emergency vehicles in this manner should result in a MINIMUM automatic revocation of your drivers license regardless if you injur a first responder or not. If you can’t not be a moth, you don’t get a license anymore. Take the bus.
my father was an old traffic guy in area 4 and i grew up with radar and accident car guys. they always said the mars lights drew crashes. ive done road work etc my whole life and when im on a shoulder i use parking lights only, and in thousands of hours on busy roads ive never been hit. construction has moved in the same direction as first responders and produce a blinding array of strobe lights and light towers everywhere blinding drivers and attracting the weak minded. im sure this is mandated by the insurance companies more is better manta. i still drive interstate at night several times a month and sometimes you cant see the road obstructions due to all the conflicting ultra bright flashing lights and it doesnt help that traffic is moving way over the limit. add rain or snow and its some tense manuevering. some day the safety geniuses may realize this is overkill and go back to basic flashing lights instead of a fourth of july laser show. this from some one who spent their life on the interstates. be careful out there, no one else is!
I travel Wisconsin interstates at night. The strobes on the trooper cars absolutely destroy your vision. The greater the distance the worse it gets. I've had to slow to 5 mph as I got close because I couldn't see beyond the backend of the police car. It's total blackness. This does not bode well for anyone on foot beyond that point. And yes, I do move over, sometimes using a portion of the left shoulder for more distance between us. Pretty scary sometimes. That's my two cents worth.
People do need to get a little smarter about when they stop when pulled over or for breakdowns. I understand there isn’t always a choice, but there is usually some choice. Curves are bad. The shoulder right after an on ramp is bad. Immediately after hill crests is bad.
in my opinion lights have become way too bright. WHY?
Interesting how years ago we didn't have this problem with a simple lightbar and wigwags. Today's vehicles are just to overloaded with seizure causing lights on practically every inch of a squad. But then again this is 2019 and people have their cell phones fused to their skulls and every new car has basically a movie theatre of activity with these dash mounted video screens and satellite radio systems
Should be under SAE J845, I have no free access. Simple to determine what year the brightness was increased, and accident rate increase / decrease from that year forward.
Coming on i was told thery attracts crazies (i think they meant psych or mental issue disorder) that they are drawn to the light. Could there be a common drug being taken which would have the same mind numbing effect
Fire departments all across the nation send multiple trucks to accidents on the expressways and in most cases it's simply to block traffic from hitting the ambulances. Perhaps they should "marry" an IDOT truck up with the state troopers to provide protection for them. People are driving distracted everywhere, all the time. They don't care. This is getting ridiculous. It's insane.
The real reason that this crap happens is because people do not know how to drive safely. Keep your eyes on the road and try to move to the left of stalled vehicles, police vehicles, ambulances and other things that obstruct the right lane.
Of course everyone on the in the Chicago area is in a hurry to get somewhere. I have seen idiots pass me on the shoulder of the with no traffic around on the other three lanes.
It does not help that the ISP does not have enough Troopers to actually catch the speeders on the toll roads.
Shame on Illinois for that.
Never crashed into a vehicle with emergency lights, but I've been thinking this for a while. Used to be gumballs. Then light bars. Now, let's be honest, it's pretty insanely bright and....distracting? It's kind of like everything else in society. If a little is good, then more is better, and over-the-top is best. If it takes the current crop of emergency lighting to alert a driver to your presence, then that driver shouldn't be driving because they're probably legally blind.
There could be a lot of truth to this as strange as it seems. I have been riding motorcycles since 1972 and you learn to look away from obstacles not at them. When you see a pot hole or whatever you look where you want to go not at what you want to avoid.
The lights are too bright, the strobes too intense, and there are too many of them. Period. I have always wanted to say something to officers but who it's happening it's usually on the road, in the dark, during some kind of police business and I would have to pull over, get out and interfere in some way. They are dangerous.
Never crashed into a vehicle with emergency lights, but I've been thinking this for a while. Used to be gumballs. Then light bars. Now, let's be honest, it's pretty insanely bright and....distracting? It's kind of like everything else in society. If a little is good, then more is better, and over-the-top is best. If it takes the current crop of emergency lighting to alert a driver to your presence, then that driver shouldn't be driving because they're probably legally blind.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This x2.
Not a LEO.
Never drove into one.
But have had to avert my eyes from the light bars so I could see where I was going. The glare is a killer. It's painful enough for me just sitting behind a stopped CPD squad in daylight with its light bar brake light illuminated.
At nighttime, it's like staring into airport landing lights.
Here's a hint for manufacturers and procurement officials alike: If you're blinding drivers, expect blind driving.
Be interesting to see what the Michigan State police accident rate is for Troopers on a traffic stop. For years they have just had the HUGE rotating 'gumball' on top of the squad.
LED's. They pierce your brain. It is easier to close your eyes until past the strobe. Just about any drug will increase sensitivity in the eyes.
Cops used to try to get off the road, now they stick the trunk in the lane as a blocker. Driver shennanigans distract from safe protocol.
"Turn those 'Asshole Magnets' off..."
It was true years ago and more so now than ever before.
+++++ SCC said: There has been some speculation as to the strobes on emergency vehicles being distracting ... attracting drivers inside a certain radius where the hypnotic effect of the lights leaves drives with inadequate reaction time at higher speeds. +++++
Just my opinion but one possibility *could be* that the Stobe Lights are triggering Epileptic Seizures.
I'm certainly NO medical doctor but it is a known medical fact that Strobe Lights DO trigger seizures. And it's happening to people on the road who don't even know that they have epilepsy(a). The crash could be their first episode but by the time First Responders come the seizure is over and they still don't know what happened to them.
It's feasible at least in some of the cases.
(a) Or they do know and are hiding it so their DL doesn't get yanked or restricted. One of my wife's cousins did this after recovering from a massive head trauma injury -- I was NOT a happy camper.
[again, just my opinion, your mileage may vary]
They can cause vertigo.
im gonna go with the 80 proof or higher on this one............
I drive 94 294 regularly. Not the oldest but not the youngest driver out there. Also was on the job for 37 years. I find that the new lights are so bright, so many colors, and flashing from many angles that on a dark road I cannot see the outline of the emergency vehicles. The lights flare out to cover more than two lanes of traffic and the shoulder, if you are in the second lane and blocked on the left the only thing you can do is slow down hoping your are not rear ended and drive straight ahead hoping the emergency vehicle is not straddling the lane in front of you.
After 10 years on this job, I have come to realize that there are may people in this world that should NOT be driving. Driving is a basic skill that is taught at an early age but not everyone advances in that skill no matter how much experience they have. I remember being at a road block with barricades, flashing lights and all... a woman came at me full speed, crashed through the barricades because "this is the only way I know how to get to work". People lack some serious common sense. Then of course you have the reckless drivers who just plain don't care. See a lot of that on the Dan Ryan.
I am very familiar with Posen FD. I assure you, their apparatus does not have blinding lights. They have the older style, that came out after the rollers but before the very bright LEDs. Every vehicle in their firehouse is 10 years old or more, with the exception of a pick-up truck that is 2.
The theory that lights attract drivers to crash into emergency vehicles is complete nonsense. Drivers are distracted by cell phones, and modern vehicles reach greater speeds at a faster rate than they ever have. Most every newer car in the road has 180+ hp these days, and if not they have a power to weight ratio that still makes them quick. People just drive fast, and negligently, because it is easier to do. People are also driving more miles than ever. Kids don’t walk to sports practice, they are driven. No one walks to the store. With more miles being driven per year than at any other time in history, there will be an increase in crashes.
To the commenter that said he has to slow down just to pass an emergency vehicle safely - that’s the idea. If the lights make you do that, good.
Put the blame where it belongs. It’s not magical lights or urban legends passed down from grandfather who worked for IDOT to dad who drove with mars bars. It’s self-centered, self absorbed drivers with no regard for anyone else on the road, whether emergency worker or the car in front of them they insist on being 6 inches from. Blame humans, not lights.
Fact is that most modern flashing lights are too bright and that is a separate issue. The drivers who hit vehicles with any flashing lights are usually trying to gain the advantage and move up, in front of, and around, the vehicles that are yielding. Like the ones that chase behind the ambulances in Chicago. They see an opening and take it and there is no one there to stop them and they know it! I was on I-57 in Posen during that black ice event that took out several dozen vehicles and people a few years ago: With /all lanes/ and traffic stopped (for an hour) and two fire engines blocking all lanes so they could clear the carnage. One fire engine moves enough to allow one lane to open and trickle the thousands of stopped vehicle through, including mine. Immediately, a car trying to take the advantage and go around everyone else... including me...accelerates, looses control and barrels into my backend and careens directly toward the fire engine still sliding (the ice hadn’t melted) and stopping by a miracle just a few feet away from it...head on and directly toward a responder standing in front. Don’t believe me? Ask the responder in the Posen FD. He will remember. I think he shit his pants.
i agree
In line with several comments above, I believe it has to do with drivers being blinded and/or hypnotized. In the 80's, I sold Whelen strobe lights, and they were bright but had a short dwell time, and had a day/night brightness setting.
I believe you might find a correlation (if not causation) between the increase in accidents and the adoption of high intensity LED lighting, with a bazillion lights often operating in an asynchronous pattern (random flash patterns). When it was a few lights, perhaps even brighter in candelas / lumens, the brain was able to digest that picture and translated it properly. Now that there is often 20-30 lights per vehicle, often flashing randomly, a brain (especially impaired by substances and/or fatigue) can't handle it.
My hypothesis.
Yes, true, lights can and do attract drivers to look in their direction. If you stare at something long enough while driving, you may steer or stray in that direction.
Sometimes too many lights are not a good thing.
The state police even have their yellow roof lights (the ones that light up in a straight line one at a time) configured so that they light up going away from the curb/traffic stop, otherwise an impaired driver may follow the lights and steer into them.
It has been said that going over the top with too many lights, and creating a "laser light show" is sometimes counter productive as it attracts other drivers to look and stare in that direction.
Scott's Law
625 ILCS 5.0/11-907
Write 'em, every single time.
Modern LED lights are far too bright for nighttime use.
And when did the Illinois MVC change to allow white flashing lights mounted to the rear of a vehicle?
I don't excuse these drivers; it's still on us to slow down and pay attention. But there needs to be some sort of nighttime setting for some of these fixtures.
Civilian here.
Another issue are the LED lights now showing up on vehicle headlights and overhead on street lights.
Spoke to my optometrist recently and mentioned that I am having trouble driving at night and being blinded by oncoming vehicles with those bright LEDs. He says he's hearing the same thing from an increasing number of his patients.
Then we have those streetlight LEDs which are much more economical than the sodium bulbs, but that "bluish" light that is being emitted from them casts harsh shadows. There are even studies, one in particular done for the City of Phoenix, that claims that these LEDs disrupt circadian rhythms of humans and animals. Nice! Especially when these LEDs are now available in warmer tones that are just as illuminating, but without the harsh shadows.
I-57 is a shit show almost every weekend between 127th and 99th st.,be safe people!
Got to admit, I get dazzled. Impossible to guess which side the vehicles are coming up on the township esses (S's?). Never come close to hitting anyone but feel lost in my lane regularly.
I've discussed this many times in recent years and the problem is getting worse. Emergency vehicle lights are flashing too brightly, in conflicting patterns and there's so much light you can't tell what side of the road they're on or how far up ahead they are until you've crept up to the accident at 5-10 mph max. That's dangerous because not everybody driving seems to care to figure out exactly where the heck the vehicles are that are attached to the blinding strobe lights. Too much light, too much strobe.
Target fixation. The bane of bikers. Look where you want to go, because you WILL go where you are looking. Fix your gaze on those bright lights and you'll head towards them unless you make a concious effort not to. This applies to everyone. Then there are the simple, and I do mean simple, gapers, who just wander because they can't help themselves. As an aside, modern vehicle lighting, inclusive of emergency vehicle lights and headlights on all vehicles, have become blindingly bright, creating a greater hazard than they are avoiding.
my guess is that distracted driving has as much, if not more, of an effect than the lights
Used to drive a Squad. Now a school Bus. They often run into the back end of big yellow busses without lights on.
Some emergency vehicles here in Florida have light bars that are totally blinding. Many of the roadways here have no street lighting so it is very dark at night, when you are near an emergency vehicle with their overheads on it can be blinding when they are close. I have no issues with pulling out of their way as they approach from the rear, but once they pass I am blinded for several seconds due to the rear facing lights. If I approach one stopped near the roadway I have to use my hand to block the light so that I can see the roadway. I don't know if it is the angle of these lights or the brightness but they are dangerous. I first noticed this issue about two years ago and it is seems to be growing as equipment is being replaced.
Old time traffic guys would always turn off their lights off when making a stop on the expwy at night. Drunks can’t see the road at high speeds at night so they just look for and follow the lights in front of them. By the time they realize the lights are stopped it’s too late. What they are seeing while drunk is hazy and blurred to begin with so all those flashing lights aren’t much different to them.
Drunks are drawn to shiny flashy lights; this is old news. Considering that alcohol's effects are more about hypoxia than the toxin itself, we can easily extrapolate that those with similar impairments, such as sleep deprivation, prescribed and other recreational drugs, cannabis and whatever other substance or situation that turns the modern driver into a mental goldfish are becoming prevalent what with the medical, recreational and media establishments blessing. It seems likely that we should assume that the modern driver is not just a hazard at 2 am, but at 2 pm as well. Something that smart motorcyclists have known for quite some time.
Like a moth to a candle. It happened to me while writing up an accident... driver rear-ends another vehicle barely missing my car with the newer strobes.
I started out in the fire department back in 1979 - even then, we noted that drunk drivers tend to drive straight into emergency lights. I think it’s because they’re using the lights ahead of them to guide on (‘cuz they’re so drunk) and automatically “lock on” to the lights furthest to the right.
I’ve seen the same thing with disabled cars on the shoulder with hazard lights - drunks are drawn to them like moths to a porch light.
I imagine that with today’s super bright strobes, the drunks have a hard time NOT being mesmerized by them. Frankly, when I drive by a police car or fire engine with its emergency lights on at night, I have a hard time seeing the road ahead of them. A tip from “back in the day”: use your right spot light to light up the offender’s vehicle and point the left one at the fog line just ahead of your vehicle. It really helps (sober) motorists see where the lane is.
I think it may actually be worth taking a closer look, as mentioned by 02:25:00 AM, did the increase in accidents occur around the same time as the increase in brightness? If you rule out the intoxicated drivers, what happened with the drivers that cause those accidents?
Last December I went to a funeral on Lawrence Avenue. Traffic was very slow and congested and there were a lot of emergency vehicles in the middle of the street with their lights on so pedestrians can cross over from the south side of Lawrence to the funeral home on the north side of the street and vice versa. I was not driving fast, even if I wanted to I would not have been able to because traffic was so slow. There was an officer directing telling the drivers to stop & let pedestrians cross. I saw the lights when I was far away, and I knew there were pedestrians, traffic was slow, AND I ALMOST HIT HIM!!! He yelled at me to pay attention, but honestly, he was just a dark silhouette and I did not him clearly until I was almost next to him. I could not have been going more than about 15 to 20 mph. Imagine what it's like when your reaction time is a fraction of a second not he expressway! And before you ask, no my phone was not out, and my car is old, so I don't have all the fancy buttons.
There may be some truth to it. That's why they have the fine print on the video games - they say that the flashing lights can cause seizures etc. Pull out one of your kids' video game boxes and look at the the health warnings.
Please be safe out there.
I think that there is something to the discussion regarding overwhelming lights, strobes, etc.
And let's be honest, a lot of the increase in this is due to liability issues. (How can someone claim that they 'did not see' the squad car that looked like a mobile disco??)
A good source of research/data would be the California Highway Patrol. I believe that, for safety reasons, when they do a traffic stop, all that oncoming drivers approaching them from the rear will see is red/blue wig wags on the sides, with an arrow stick motioning them to stay to the left or right (depending on the stop location). However, if viewing from the front, (oncoming or if you are the violator looking in the rear view mirror) you get the full light show.
Perhaps ISP and CPD should try to use the lower key lighting plan settings on some of their cars to see if there is a decrease in those accident numbers, compared to ones they keep equipped as they are now.
Stay Safe!!
Maybe, the drivers could "SLOW DOWN" when they see flashing lights like it requires under IVC.
The real problem is there are too many people talking on their cell phone, reading emails, texts, or some other phone based distraction. The real problem is that people can no longer drive vehicles and this is why we need self driving cars! Basically morons behind the wheel of the cars on the road.
None of this should matter if people would just slow the fuck down. It’s not “dodge the lights while still doing 90”. It’s hard as hell to hit anything if you drop down to 45 when approaching lights.
Anonymous just a motorist. said...
in my opinion lights have become way too bright. WHY?
4/01/2019 02:08:00 AM
Agreed.
Started with the totally unnecessary DRL’s several years ago. Which has morphed into these high intensity aftermarket headlamps that every asshole just seems to HAVE to have. Not only wayyyyyy too bright, but usually improperly aligned to boot. There is absolutely no need for high beams in a city full of artificial light sources.
Sometimes less is more. This is one of those instances.
It's all part of the vast new religion of political correctness. Everything has to be geared to the least common denominator in order to relieve our guilt at being more fortunate than others. Beeps on kitchen appliances have to be made insanely loud because others might be hard of hearing. Peanuts are banned from airplanes because someone might be one of a million deathly allergic to them. Drivers might be visually or hearing impaired and so need extra loud warnings and bright lights to get their attention. Next they'll probably have all the controls in Braille.
Yes.
It is often the lights.
Digital flashing.
LED light source, very, very bright, especially when no sun is in the sky.
Basically hypnotic and, possibly, mild brain seizure inducing.
Excellent for daytime visibility.
Way too much for the deep darkness of night, even when some highway lighting is present. When no lighting is nearby, fucking blinding.
Okay in city environs, for all the obvious reasons.
Proving to be a recurring example of Murphy's Law being unknowingly invited.
Simple solution: Switched lower light emmissions, presumably via voltage options.
Simpleton solution: Add ambient light sensor to automatically change voltages. Perhaps a 3 stage control, thus, 3 levels of light intensity: Day, Dusk, and Night, with the sensor determining, automatically, which is which.
And, yes, the hogs would reliably see this as an opportunity to harvest swag.
Insurance is part of the problem here. People dont worry about crashing anymore "because that's what insurance is for". Why pay attention when someone else has to pay the consequences?
Yes, there is a problem with the lights. There is also a problem with needless stops along the roadside.
End fixit stops, just mail a notice to registered owner. Stop using speeding or blinker use etc or fixits as a premise to pull people out and search.
It simply isnt worth officers lives to pester drivers and generate revenues for politicians to waste.
I would rather the officers live another day to do real police work, and that is dangerous enough as it is!
I'm still waiting for the idiot who was driving the wrong way on the Tollway near Libertyville to be identified. Pulling over for emergency vehicles is not going to help in that scenario.
Strobe lights have been known to trigger epileptic seizures, so there may be some truth to the argument that many flashing lights of different colors could also cause night blindness or seizures of other sorts.
just a motorist. said...
in my opinion lights have become way too bright. WHY?
4/01/2019 02:08:00 AM
Because many are LED lights now. Blinding & unsafe.
Remember they said they were good for us lol. Had to remove old style ones. What B.S.
Before we blame the modern lighting as "too bright" and "too distracting", remember that these lights were installed BECAUSE idiots were too drugged, drunk, lazy, or stupid to yield to emergency vehicles or otherwise drive safely. As someone who's been there, wondering if the idiot impeding my progress to a call, or rapidly approaching my stopped squad, was going to move over or stop (let alone people driving around me while lit up blocking an intersection in a fully marked squad car in daylight), at least the officer and agency can't be blamed for not being seen. Apparently Illinoisans need guide dogs to drive for them.
Good point, bright lights are attractants.
Bright strobes in a darkened area are blinding.
Should be able to lower the intensity of the strobes automatically and substantially when the vehicle is not in motion.
Foreign imported strobe makers are likely cheating the DOT requirement - if there is any.
I recall an Airline pilot once complained CPD or AVPD lights were to bright for him to enter the gate he was pulling in to.
PD was there for an onboard disturbance.
The rule of motorcycle riding is look ”well beyond” where you want to go, leaning etc., you’d have to have ridden or be familiar with motorcycles to understand this. This may seem obvious, but it’s a mistake many new MC riders make by looking too closely at the pavement or object in front of them and not anticipating ahead.
Two wheels steering vs. one, it doesn’t happen on a bicycle though...too slow.
Cars and trucks are not if at all subject to this driving method, but a distraction could wane the steering wheel straight towards the bright lights, an unaware driver believes the steering wheel is aligned and going straight.
Gawkers, rubbernecking, distracted driving of all sorts.
Then there’s the ignorant, all about me kings of the road.
Whatever the case, protocol needs to be revised to adapt to the many unaccountable morons that are allowed behind the wheel, legally and illegally. But in Welcoming Accepting Sanctuary IL, it takes what...10 DUI’s and a couple serious injury or death traffic crashes to see minimum penalty?
Why did the ISP keep quiet on the offending drivers of these recent incidents?
Too politically incorrect?
God Bless the First Responders.
Waaaaaaay too bright. Very distracting. I can see how it might cause some form of near-panic or quasi-epileptic reaction to some people. Destroys night vision--where are you going to go? Where you can see the road, or into the blackness of space? This shouldn't be too hard to figure out the problem if anyone cares to do so.
The lights are disorienting for those of us with vertigo. And friends without that condition tell me that they have been temporarily blinded and dizzied by squad car lights. Combine that with the high speeds on the highways and you have a real problem.
The brightness of the strobe lights ruins your night vision the closer you get to the light source. From a distance you cannot distinguish where the emergency vehicle is but the problem with the strobe lights is that the darker the area they are used in the more “strobe” effect you get i.e. the feeling of slow motion, staggered movement, etc... just my observation
The emergency lights are blinding now add in drivers whose eyes are sensitive to lights at night, drivers on cell phones, and texting. And morons that refuse to slow down. ♠️
Emergency vehicles now light up light a Las Vegas marquee. More is NOT better.
There has to be some correlation with the emergency lights....especially in less than Super bright areas.
Yes, the lights are extremely bright and can easily cause 'night blindness'. I, too, put on over 30,000 miles/year, at least 10K of those in pre-dawn, evening, or night-time, and the damn lights are way too distracting.
I am in the group that feels that emergency lights have gotten way too bright.... almost blinding.
That seems counterintuitive if you’re temporarily blinding vehicles that are approaching you from behind.
I think it certainly warrants a look into this.
It's almost become some kind of a bizarre contest to see how many lights you can pack onto or into a vehicle. You have lights on outside mirrors, inside mirrors, rear deck, running boards, grille, front and rear dash, fog lights,back up lights,roof, etc.
And our cars are getting creamed.
Makes we want the old Smokey and the Bandit Visibar set up. Two rotators, speaker in the middle.
The expressways are totally out of control. Animals doing 140mph chasing other Animals doing 140mph, trying to get a good shot. Add the brilliant liberals idea of legalizing cannabis which will make it even more dangerous. Just last week I watched 2 cars chasing each other, I got out of the way and watched one of them disintegrate into a concrete barrier after taking out atleast 2 innocent motorists. I'm less nervous on a person with a gun call than driving the Dan Ryan. Something needs to be done. Either make it a tollway which would slow traffic or speed cameras...not sure...but something needs to be done. God please watch over our Troopers.
An old state trooper told me when they have someone pulled over they shut off the back striped because it attracts drunks like a becan.
The main reason emergency lighting became more pronounced and visible, especially with the strobe effects, was to compete with the increasingly lit up, flashing lights commonly found in most cities. I remember going into downtown areas in the 60s and 70s when I was a kid and all of the flashing neon, etc. really grabbed your attention.
That type of lighting just caught on, and now every police and fire department around the country, regardless of the type of lit up environment they operate in, have them installed on their vehicles. I've always thought they were a bit over the top myself, especially as you get out into the rural areas and interstates.
Its the LEDs, they are WAY TOO BRIGHT.
Cant even see the road, blinding
Just wondering.
Who the hell did the ordering for the lights on ISP cars. White. Amber. Red. Blue.
Front and back. Such a odd color combo.
Still. Thats no excuse ever to hit a car. I been driving for 20 years. Never once even remotely hit a squad
Cars have touch screens today instead of proper buttons and controls. This means looking at the screen instead of the road.
Beyond that if we are dealing with distracted driving to the point of running off the roadway and hitting whatever might be there then there should also be a rise in hitting disabled vehicles, guard rails, jersey barriers, and so on. In many places due to road construction or design to old standards there is no more shoulder than there would be space between the lane line and a parked cruiser or fire truck.
Since there isn't apparently a rise in one vehicle crashes or crashes into disabled vehicles then there has to be something about the emergency vehicles that either makes the collisions more likely or becomes the final piece that makes collisions more likely.
For me modern police/fire lights are a huge hazard. Glaring to the point of blinding. Distracting as all get out too. On surface streets at night I'll slow way down well ahead of time because I don't want to get hit or hit anything. On the expressways get as far over, as many lanes over, as possible.
There is also a lot of truth about going where you look. Those lights draw attention. They are designed to. So people will drive right at them. I have to look away because of the pain of the glare but other people aren't as sensitive to it as I am. They just can't seen past it.
You are onto something- rotating flashing strobing multi color light shows might be ok in the residential area where the traffic is 30 mph, but maybe on expressways in total darkness , away from the city crime lights, it's a different story.
Think about this fat jb is pushing along with his demonic crew to legalize weed,the strength of weed is not like the 70's nope it is much stronger and people/folks don't get violent on weed but they get high and mellow which slows reaction time watch how many more accidents we will have!
Studies: Car accidents up in Colorado, other states with legalized recreational marijuana
https://kdvr.com/2018/10/19/studies-car-accidents-up-in-colorado-other-states-with-legalized-recreational-marijuana/
There you go so the governor wants to sacrifice more people by legalizing weed?
For all those echoing the insistance of putting every event such as this on the driver, a reminder:
1. Driver is a human. Yeah, a human.
2. Do you really want to rely upon a human, any human, to ensure your safety?
3. The comments concerning the brightness intensity, the digitally perfect strobing, the combining of different colors at different rates of strobing, etc., are spot on. In pitch blackness, or close to it, there is not doubt of the effect doing more harm than good. Even with expressway lighting, not much better. Disorientation even to the point of losing confidence in where the fucking road is would not surprise. When you cannot clearly discern the actual vehicle upon which these lights are flashing, the size of a distant vehicle not so discerned cannot help to judge the distance you are from it. Slowing down, sure, but, slowing down enough? And soon enough?
4. All these effects should have been tested and understood and accounted for prior to the use of these lovely devices. To ensure the greatest possible benefit and the least possibility of undesirable effects.
5. No problem is ever solved before it is determined to be a problem.
6. Any who seriously doubt the comments attesting to this effect, do the work, aka, experiment upon yourself. Safety of a long stretch of barren road, say, Forest Preserve at 2am on an early Monday morning, with blocked points to ensure no one interrupts you. A road with several twists and curves. See what you experience.
This issue is worth taking an honest, scientific look at. Which should have been done, thoroughly done, prior to the usage of these technologically digital electronic marvels of human ingenuity.
While you’re at it, what about these new LED lights on the newer vehicles? They literally blind me when they’re coming towards me in traffic. Who thinks this shit up?
Maybe drivers are distracted and not paying attention. Maybe they're driving crazy, or they're drunk. The thing is, I don't drive crazy or drunk, and I don't text and drive, and the lights are STILL distracting to me, and make it hard to see the road.
If a majority of the accidents happening in the vicinity of the laser-show lights are being caused by drunk drivers -- who are on the road ANYWAY, and drawn TOWARDS them -- and if the distracted drivers are STILL not being alerted despite the million candlepower light show, why not at least make it easier for all the attentive drivers that are currently being blinded by the blazing lights?
If you have a problem with this, ask yourself: why do you turn down your high beams when other cars are approaching? Why do outdoor LED billboards have daytime and nighttime settings? Why do automotive INTERIOR lights have daytime and nighttime settings? Hmmm...
SCC, i enjoy cycling and have read that German standards for bike lights do not allow for lights that blink as they believe they attract drivers, opposed to a solid light that alerts drivers of a cyclist on the road in darkness.
I've been retired for quite some time now but when I was on the job, I was in a class for Breathalyzer re-certification. The instructor told the class that studies had shown the squad car overhead lights drew drunks to the lights like a moth to a flame. I always kept that in mind when making traffic stops at night and always tried to get vehicles on to a side street or driveway of a gas station etc..
and on last nites news new cars will have an app built into the center star wars display so you can order a pizza while driving. seriously what the fuck? little ceasars or papa johns or some shit. thats a touch screen. to operate it you have to look at it? right? they say it will save the busy millenial time, dont wanna have to stop and make that 2 minute call on the way to moms basement for an all nite gaming binge. no wonder these stupid fuks want self driving cars. back when i started driving you had to use both hands and feet and plan your turns and braking. now cars are rolling entertaiment centers and people put 5% of their efforts into actually piloting their 3000 lb battering ram with 95% of their time focusing on their phone. i believe the new led lights are a huge problem but the asshole drivers take the most credit. i dont think most of them have ever seen a crushed bloody warm human 5 minutes after someone hits them at 80 mph, and of course dont think it could ever happen to them cuz their a wiz on grand theft auto.
Demonrats Showing their true colors: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2020-dems-conference-begins-with-fiery-chant-quoting-fugitive-cop-killer-assata-shakur
It’s going to be a long hot summer.
and the old rotating lights weren’t able to be seen on bright, sunny days
Police-Industrial Complex
Bigger-Better-Faster, that's the mantra
......"and this NEW light bar is 35% brighter than the
previous model at the same price. Wow, what a deal."
Salesman won't tell you everyone is going to LEDs,
volume acquisition price is lower to them, so even
by keeping the same retail price the distributor makes
more money; police dept. thinks they're getting a steal.
Not to mention, they have no studies on higher lumen
output lights in total darkness nights (no moon).
Light pollution from cities, interstate lights mitigate this
problem. Out there in the middle of nowhere (no lights,
no towns, no billboards) you're in the heart of darkness.
I'm a Trooper in the Northeast and we have the Wheelen lights that automatically dim upon night time stops. We also have Code3's that do the same.
That being said we still have plenty of cruisers being struck. My opinion is it's an issue of distracted driving and over-congested highways. Often time the involved civilian vehicles are OUI as well.
Yes, there should be a daytime mode and nighttime mode for the newer LED strobe lights. The human eye can take so much.
Anonymous said...
I-57 is a shit show almost every weekend
between 127th and 99th st.,be safe people!
4/01/2019 08:08:00 AM
ONLY 127th to 99th?
So I was on 294 and 90 yesterday-quick run to Elk Grove Village, for about 20 mins and thought with the recent ISP fatal accidents on the tollways and all the media hype that things might just be a little different...a little more tame, a little slower perhaps...not expecting miracles...but maybe just a little...?
Notafuckingchance!
Screwballs still tailgating, multiple lane changes-no turn signals? Of course not-silly question!
Speed was about supersonic by several lunatics and can’t you just wait for warmer weather and the the swarms of screaming crotch rocket motorcycles to return-weaving in, out and between the OTHER traffic already doing 30 over?!?
Only way to slow traffic down is don’t fix the roadways...let the potholes do what they do best-let the roadways turn back into gravel!
Hope you lose today, Toni...
Retired, 30+
Anonymous said...
Old time traffic guys would always turn off their lights off when making a stop on the expwy at night. Drunks can’t see the road at high speeds at night so they just look for and follow the lights in front of them. By the time they realize the lights are stopped it’s too late. What they are seeing while drunk is hazy and blurred to begin with so all those flashing lights aren’t much different to them.
4/01/2019 09:10:00 AM
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Exactly. I had a traffic guy in my court key. He told me the same thing. Said "keep those lights on during a stop, it's not IF, but WHEN you're going to get nailed." When I worked in 007 and ISP took over the Ryan, we had about 5 ISP cars get rear ended on stops in one summer. Before that, I couldn't remember a Chicago radar unit getting hit. And if those lights aren't too bright, then why the setting for rear only lights? Why do some have a "half brightness" setting? May have over did it with the LEDs on squad cars. Try going to an in progress call behind another beat car. You're seeing spots the whole way. I'm retired, but work part time for a small burb PD. Our cars look like something from "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" when lit up.
Years ago working as a electrician at Great Lakes Navy base we had to synchronize the Fire Alarm flashing lights to prevent seizers. It's a known fact and the Navy got it right before 2000 and here we are in 2019 and the lights on emergency vehicles are at the very least causing some of the accidents.
It's not the lights that crash into cars, it's not guns that kill people. It's people, plain and simple.
Lori wants to “ bring in the light”...... I hope she doesn’t mean these mesmerizing, strobe like emergency lights.
You’ll have alderman slamming into each other left and right.... not that that would be such a bad thing.
Might even knock some sense into some of them.
Sirens are also used far too frequently and un necessarily, and their loud screeching disorients and panics motorists. Studies need to be conducted as to the necessity of constant sirens in use by mostly private Ambulance Amateurs, who drive for miles, many times un necessarily, with lights and sirens on. More regulation is needed, especially when it comes to private ambulance services, who are money driven, and want their drivers to pick up, drop off, and be ready for another pickup as fast as possible, in order to make money for the Company. Suburbs are offenders too, as they want their limited personnel to complete their runs and return to their town, as fast as possible, as their manpower is always short, and their towns uncovered at times, at which they have to rely on neighboring towns to respond to their emergencies in the absence of their own ambulances, who frequently use their lights and sirens to speed back to their own towns, illegally using emergency equipment just to get back fast. This all leads to endangerment of the motoring public, all for pursuing the almighty Dollar, by the Ambulance Services.
All and All, traffic enforcement everywhere around Illinois seems lapse. Stricter Enforcement is necessarily. Give a person 10 miles over the limit, they'll go 20 over. Give em more, they'll take more. Time to get back to the old Principle of doing the speed limit with a little over or under being OK, but this crap of drivers flying down expressways and Tollways at 75, 80, or more has got to stop. And where are all these Troopers ? I see this crazed driving ALL the time, and never a Trooper or other Cop around. Ever since the Red-Light Cameras came about, real, Hands On Traffic Enforcement has disappeared, and our roads and highways have become far more dangerous.
Don't blame the car, blame the driver. Don't blame the gun, blame the shooter. Don't blame drugs, blame the user. Don't blame gambling, blame the gambler. Its stupid human's !!!!!!!!!!!
"It's not the lights that crash into cars, it's not guns that kill people. It's people, plain and simple."
The comparison between the lights and guns as inanimate objects is a non-sequitur. Guns have no physiological effect on people until they are activated. Same with excessively bright flashing lights. The person causing the problem with the gun is the person pulling the trigger. The person causing the problem with the lights (technically) is the person turning them on.
The crazy lights might have the unintended consequence of causing drunks -- who are on the road even though they shouldn't be -- to veer towards them.
The crazy lights apparently do little to alert inattentive drivers.
The crazy lights negatively impact the night vision of a vast majority of drivers, who are sober and attentive.
Taught in 1968, O'Brien Street, If stopped anyone on XPRESSWAY TURN OFF MARS LIGHT, light a moth to the flame, and if you look all these took place at NIGHT !!
It's about the lights alright!
Lights are on and no one"s home!
I think there is a high/low day/night lumens function with these emergency lights, no? Having the lights on 'kill' during nighttime results in blind drivers careening towards whatever activity is happening on the side, or middle of the road. Add a curve in the road for extra fun. I am impressed how blinded I am coming home every midnight in the far right lane on the Kennedy when they are doing the nightly god-knows-what around the Jefferson Park L station in the left lane. One trooper car and 5-8 trucks, usually with the LED's on "kill" mode. Have this shitshow going on where the road curves right and yep, real blinding. I can see how the confusion can set in and people get run over or drivers dont realize where the road actually is
Back in the day when Chicago PD patroled the expressways, there was a G.O. written regarding this problem. Chicago PD units would only use the blue lights for the traffic stop.. After the car was curbed, the mars light was to be turned off..
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