Possible Acquittal?
- I have written elsewhere of my skepticism regarding the murder charge against former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin in the death of George Floyd. I have been equally skeptical of the charges against the three other now-former officers, Tou Thao, Thomas Lane, and Alex Kueng, who are accused of aiding and abetting Chauvin. Nothing in the body camera footage leaked to the Daily Mail on Monday has relieved me of that skepticism. I am now even more doubtful that an impartial trier of fact, assuming one can be found, will convict any of the defendants of the charges against them.
It is sometimes my duty to review videos captured at the scene of a killing. Often as I watch them, I’m struck by how unremarkable things can seem in the very moments before a man pulls a gun or a knife and uses it to kill someone he may have been calmly engaged with only moments earlier. I might watch such a video dozens of times looking for details of the crime, but even so, I’m never entirely free from the irrational hope that the next time I view it, different choices will be made and the victim will walk away unharmed. At so many different points in these videos, I can imagine the victim or the suspect avoiding the moment that would end one life and forever change the other.
So it is with the George Floyd body camera footage, which depicts what was at first a routine police response to a routine minor crime, a scenario that gave no hint at what was to come. But when we watch these videos now, we of course know George Floyd ends up dead, so we search for the pivotal moments that led to the unfortunate outcome. Whose decisions can we point to and say, but for this, George Floyd would be alive today?
The most obvious sticking point is that Murder requires premeditation. The Minnesota cops conducted a perfectly bland traffic stop for almost forty minutes. They were polite yet firm, deferential but cautious, constantly de-escalating the situation. That isn't premeditated.
The next most obvious point it the autopsy report. Floyd suffered exactly zero damage to his neck, blood vessels, internal musculature, and the toxicology report shows four-times the lethal dose of fentanyl. Even a bottom tier lawyer like Crimesha couldn't make the case that anything other than drugs and poor health killed Floyd.
This entire case is going too hinge on the lack of immediate response to an emerging medical emergency. And that is a far cry from Murder in any degree.
The next most obvious point it the autopsy report. Floyd suffered exactly zero damage to his neck, blood vessels, internal musculature, and the toxicology report shows four-times the lethal dose of fentanyl. Even a bottom tier lawyer like Crimesha couldn't make the case that anything other than drugs and poor health killed Floyd.
This entire case is going too hinge on the lack of immediate response to an emerging medical emergency. And that is a far cry from Murder in any degree.
Labels: events, out-of-state
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
70 Comments:
Excited Delirium Syndrome
Yeah we all thought Van Dyke was over charged too, and that he would never get convicted of 1st degree murder. This case has already been decided in the media,peoples opinions are already formed and minds are already made up. Hope like hell, this doesn't turnout the same way.
I think the entire case is going to hinge on whether the officers get a fair hearing or not. Floyd’s elevation to sainthood by nearly everyone is going to make this trickier than Ferguson. I’m really waiting to hear what happens in court. I hope those officers have excellent legal representation.
4x Lethal Dose of Fentanyl
The Methamphetamine likely counteracted CNS depression
from the Fentanyl and kept Floyd alert and ambulatory.
Pressure on the vagas nerve (neck) slows the heart rate.
At some point the parasympathetic nervous system (vagas)
over powered the Meth and became the dominant factor
affecting heart rate and respiration.
The sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems
coexist in the body and a delicate balance is maintained at all
times. Sympathetic = excitation; Parasympathetic = relaxation.
Yeah, but we said the same thing about Van Dyke and being overcharged and he’s sitting in the shitter, and the guy he shot had a knife. They’re going to convict this guy because of political pressures, no matter what.
They find find some bullshit to keep him locked up— oh you got into a fight in the prison mess hall — 3 years bruh.
If it’s a jury trial the verdict is guilty after 45 minutes of deliberations. Just enough time to pick a jury foreman and sign the verdict forms. Anyone who ends up on that jury, wants to be on that jury. It must be a bench trial and pray for a sensible judge. There is no legal justification whatsoever for the charges placed. A bench trial where a judge is the “trier of fact” is his only option. He may get a defense leaning judge or a coward worried about re-election or retention, but a jury trial is a guaranteed guilty verdict.
And if they are acquitted, it'll
make the Rodney King riots look like
a walk in the park.
Not only will the officers be acquitted, rather than sue the department to get their jobs back, the city will quietly pay them (and their lawyers) off to just "go away."
Hard way to build your retirement fund, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
rb
I just hope the jury follows the law based on the evidence. He may not have been able to escape but he was still able to hurt himself badly - what if they were actually trying to stop him from hurting himself until medical help arrived - and get mob justice.
And just like the furgeson they will riot and acted like fucking animals cause they didn’t get a guilty plea
Excited Delirium Syndrome is the cause of death.
The Minneapolis PD was taught the neck control tactic by the Israeli Defense Forces in Chicago, Illinois.
George Floyd did not die of asphyxiation, he died of EDS caused by massive amounts of fentanyl, methamphetamines, THC, caffeine. Read the official autopsy report.
Riots part 2 will be the Trump election. Riots part 3 will be when the cops get found not guilty.
All of it makes sense.......but that doesn’t matter, the trails are going to be nothing more then a high price, media frenzy lynching all done under the color of law. the only jurors that you are going to find that would even consider the possibility of a not guilty Is someone who will receive a written guarantee that he will die of cancer exactly 30 minutes after a not guilty verdict is handed down and that his family will have their identities changed, be given $10 million and relocated to another country. the justice system now is fucking mob rule.
Dream on, SCC...and Dunphy too, for that matter.
Just like a bunch of dreamers here posted that Van Dyke was going to beat his case, rest assured that Chauvin is not only going to be convicted of at least some of the felony charges placed against him, but he's also going to spend some time in the can...and quite a bit more than Van Dyke is.
He's done.
Acquittal? Maybe?
Let's put it this way, I really, really wanted the trials to be scheduled for January and February. Because no one riots in below zeero weather, and there are going to be riots.
No way they get off country could not stand the blowback. Riots is every major city. It would be the signal for the coming revolution. 300,000,000+ guns and billions of rounds of ammo floating around the US. My money is on the conservatives because they own the majority of those weapons. In fact just bought some more ammo this week, the old a boy Scout in me I guess.
Get used to the idea of riots in any event. The difference being length of the riots. If not convicted all out warfare in streets. If convicted a shorter celebration of looting and burning in all major cities with Democrats in control. Gun up, now, only way to protect what you have worked so hard for.
Anonymous said...
If it’s a jury trial the verdict is guilty after 45 minutes of deliberations. Just enough time to pick a jury foreman and sign the verdict forms. Anyone who ends up on that jury, wants to be on that jury. It must be a bench trial and pray for a sensible judge. There is no legal justification whatsoever for the charges placed. A bench trial where a judge is the “trier of fact” is his only option. He may get a defense leaning judge or a coward worried about re-election or retention, but a jury trial is a guaranteed guilty verdict.
8/07/2020 12:33:00 AM
Re-election or retention?!? A sensible judge who’s not afraid of being lynched one day on his way home from work, house burned to the ground and family slaughtered, more accurate.
That January and February works for some parts of country but not for all. They will just wait until better weather then feed off the riots in the warmer areas that have been going on for the last few months. It is going to be ugly either way and for a long time unless law enforcement steps up early.
Trial will be political theater. Especially if Biden wins. After state trial there will be a Federal civil rights trial just to show the BLM crowd the DEMS have their backs. This will not end well for all the officers involved. Are you Fetal yet, if not what not this could be you next.
There should be an acquittal ~ the media & states attorney did not show the whole video and these poor officers were skewered and had their lives ruined. I hope these officers sue and get money owed them; as for Floyd, good riddance to another scumbag
An acquittal would be impartial justice, but that is unlikely to occur. A jury composed of Minneapolis residents would be a glorified lynch mob, and I doubt that you could find a judge that is willing to risk their life or career to administer impartial justice in this case. Derek Chauvin will likely be sacrificed to quiet the bloodthirsty mob.
Keith Ellison has a different agenda. A “Not Guilty” verdict is sure to set off another round of rioting, which is what he wants to see, as a man who hates America-as-founded.
Current generation of prosecutors is weak, afraid and incompetent. Very much pro-crime, unless defendants are police or politically disfavored group.
Ellison, the alleged woman-beater, is in way over his head, just like that showboating communist NY attorney Attorney General who is suing the NRA.
But none of this matters. The court now is that of public opinion. The jury is the mob. And the mob has been whipped into a vengeful frenzy by the leftist press.
Who thought Van Dyke was overcharged and would be a NG? Not anyone with a brain. Video of 16 shots fired into that guy with many as he laid on the pavement is what convicted him. The individual counts for each shot was overcharging at its worst but overall Van Dyke was going down. Do not compare these two.
Wacko- theory here:
AG Kieth X Ellison over charged these guys knowing full well (after viewing the body cams) that the charges would not stick in court. The guys would then get out free and everyone would start rioting, again. He over charged on purpose to excite the very unexciting Biden camp and “prove” that the system is systematically racist. Oh and vote democrat.
The truth doesn't matter the jury will be to afraid to not convict. The only question now is how long they will be in jail. The optics were to bad and convincing a jury that what they will be shown is not the cause of his death, well good luck with that. The riots will be nation wide not confined to Minneapolis or Minnesota. So stand by or retire or move on to a department far away. Good luck to everyone cop or not a cop unless you are Anfita then fuck you.
Good news for the working and taxpaying citizens of Minneapolis Minnesota.
The Minneapolis City Charter Commission voted to keep the Eliminate the Minneapolis Police Department City Charter Amendment OFF the November ballot.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/minneapolis-charter-commission-blocks-city-council-effort-to-abolish-police-department
The Minneapolis Charter Commission brought city council efforts to defund and disband the Minneapolis Police Department to a halt Wednesday, refusing the council’s demand to place an initiative to “abolish” the MPD on the November ballot and excoriating the city council over its lack of planning
“At the center of that debate is the city’s charter, which serves as its constitution, and requires Minneapolis to keep a police department with a minimum force based on its population,” the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported. “A plan, written by five City Council members, would have ended that requirement and replaced the police department with a Department of Community Safety & Violence Prevention that would prioritize ‘a holistic, public health-oriented approach.'”
Facts? We don't need no stinking facts.
If the case is assigned to a fair judge, one that will not now to public presdure, they should opt for a bench trial. That being said, it is Minnesota. That state has been brain damaged for many years.
NOW, kees me you fool!!!!
It will all come down to one thing: Was Chauvin trained in the use of the neck restraint in the way he administered it. MPS has used neck restraints over 200 times with no injuries. But, were they trained to put their knee on the side of the neck. That will be the issue.
Again Premeditation is NOT required in Illinois, I don't know about Minnesota.
I agree with what you are saying, but premeditation is not required.
(a) A person who kills an individual without lawful justification commits first degree murder if, in performing the acts which cause the death:
(1) he or she either intends to kill or do great
bodily harm to that individual or another, or knows that such acts will cause death to that individual or another; or
(2) he or she knows that such acts create a strong
probability of death or great bodily harm to that individual or another; or
(3) he or she is attempting or committing a forcible
felony other than second degree murder.
The Officer did NONE of the ABOVE
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Riots part 2 will be the Trump election. Riots part 3 will be when the cops get found not guilty.
8/07/2020 02:54:00 AM
The perfect time for Trump to invoke the insurrection act, and put these "protesters" in deep shit.
Fair trials for policemen ended with Rodney King’s arrest.
From NYT:
“Derek Chauvin Charged With Multiple Tax-Related Felonies in Minnesota. Mr. Chauvin, who was previously charged with second-degree murder in the killing of George Floyd, and his wife were charged with filing fraudulent tax returns for six years.Jul 22, 2020”
They’ll come down on him like a ton of bricks on this tax stuff. Just like with Al Sharpton. Oh, wait...
Nice try. No jury is going to acquit this case. Listen to the audio when the knee is on his neck.
The BIGGEST Hint why even the prosecutors believe that all of these cops are going to be found NOT GUILTY? They charged the cop, Derek Chauvin, with he alleged knee on George Floyd's neck with BS tax evasion charges for money he made working on the side.... If a man is going to jail for murder (which I believe he will not) why throw BS tax charges on him?????
Yeah, but we said the same thing about Van Dyke and being overcharged and he’s sitting in the shitter, and the guy he shot had a knife. They’re going to convict this guy because of political pressures, no matter what.
Totally different situation from the Van Dyke case. Jason would have probably been OKAY if he stopped shooting after McDonald went down. Shooting while he was down was grossly excessive.
Concur with Bench Trial instead of Jury Trial. Jury Pool in Hennepin County ( Metro Minneapolis) is tainted to degree that impartial jury will be next to impossible to select and seat. Even with sequestration, jurors may be intimidated. Too, with Bench Trial there is no possibility of juror misconduct or a hung jury ( which would invariably lead to a second trial)
Floyd was a ghetto POS engaging in the usual ghetto nonsense. Fake crying, falling out, "My >insert relative here< died", I was set up, It wasn't my fault, I been shot before, ohhhh man why you got to do me like dis, ya'll raycis, weak knees going out, refusing to walk, kicking out the windows, claiming some bullshit malady (claustrophobia)...
Put your fucking hands on the wheel, leave them there. Do what you're told and this might be a short conversation and a notice to appear. Or don't - and end up on the ground...
This is FLOYD'S fault, plain and simple. Abuses drugs, clogged arteries, felon who points guns at pregnant women's bellies, car jacker at 16 - yeah, real stand up citizen worthy of burning the country down >sarcasm<
Those cops should be acquitted and then turn around and sue the everlasting shit out of everyone involved in trying to cover up the evidence.
He gets a jury of his peers, not a jury of jeers, the camera will frustrate that atty general.
My 26 year career with CPD consisted of 5 on ordinary disability, 2 on medical. All spaced over the 26. My 6 years as a GA dick consisted of me spending 2 hours a day killing crime with a typewriter. Five years in Mass Transit made me a great pinochle player as a member of the 'bum a day' club. Four years on 3rd watch in 00l, what can I say? That left only 3 years sorting out the tribal conflicts in a working district.
No complaints. I paid $65,000 into the pension fund and have collected over a million so far. Of course, if PTSD had been invented back then, I'd have been on line of duty disability from the first time a defensive tactics instructor twisted my arm.
Use your head. For a no clout dog ass, the job is what you make it. Regards from Reverend Al.
And when he beats the case, there will be riots. But police will have to give peaceful protesters room to destroy and cops won't be able to use tear gas, pepper spray, flash bangs, control tactics of any kind, handcuffs, or a loud voice.
It will be complete and utter chaos
premeditation doesn;t mean you thought about it the night before - it could have been one second before the murder
Guilty or not guilty, these mutts will riot either way. Protect yourselves!
They treated him with more humanity than his drug dealer did. They could have left him in car to bash in his head and now this ...
I went to a family party on the day that the riots started everywhere. I commented to family members that there is more to the story then the 9 minutes of video that was being shown. I got screeched at by more than a few. I now just look at them and smirk. I guess being the police for 26 years opened my eyes to factual realities that the average person will, most likely, never see. Very sad.
Why not mount water cannons on all the buildings? The building owners can "man the cannons"! They would LOVE that. You could cause a rain delay anytime the feral citizens act up. You have plenty of water.
Sure looks like it, and what, how much and for how long did the City know by let the falsehood and the riots, burnings go on. There Should be a DOJ inquisition because the civil disobedience and encouragement from the politicians, led to interstate waves of deaths and violence....for a fable again. Time to turn the law on the Elected.
Disciplinary measures may be overturned as well, but a settlement is a better deal for the PO’s.
Going to be a costly prejudiced endeavor for Minneapolis, but hey the politicians and the unwashed, unemployed covid masses are still engaged and left financially unaccountable.
The original rioting didn’t last that long in Seattle or Portlandia terms, but the disorder and destruction is part of the new world order agenda. MN-StP is just not that into it yet. Part 2 will come and go too, just waiting for November for the excuse and maybe better weather. Timing is everything.
Anonymous said...
Yeah we all thought Van Dyke was over charged too, and that he would never get convicted of 1st degree murder. This case has already been decided in the media,peoples opinions are already formed and minds are already made up. Hope like hell, this doesn't turnout the same way.
8/07/2020 12:06:00 AM
Did he give up on his appeal and just doing the time?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not only will the officers be acquitted, rather than sue the department to get their jobs back, the city will quietly pay them (and their lawyers) off to just "go away."
Hard way to build your retirement fund, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
rb
8/07/2020 12:46:00 AM
Darren Wilson should have never resigned they couldn't fire him or put him back on the streets I would have kept showing up until they offered me a settlement that included a pension!
Just a couple things. First, it wasn't a traffic stop that went on for 40 minutes. I think you got that confused with the Atlanta shooting where the DUI suspect fought with the police after 40 minutes and then fired the officers taser at the officer. Otherwise, great post.
Second, someone else mentioned if it's a jury trial he will be convicted in 10 minutes. That is probably true. However, it is the defendant's choice whether he wants a jury trial or bench trial. The vast majority of officers who are defending themselves against charges pick a bench trial because the judge usually decides the verdict based on law and the jury usually decides based on emotion. I am certain this will be a bench trial.
Lastly, and don't hate me for my opinion. Van Dyke was definitely over charged. There are no two ways about it. However, what he did was completely unjustified and his sentence was appropriate. Yes, I feel for him and his family but what happened should not have happened. Not only that, but if he only shot the offender a couple of times, I'm sure nothing ever would have came of it. However, sixteen times opened him up to a lot of scrutiny and his sentence was commensurate with what he did.
I can’t wait for the riots so I can get “hurt”.
We will be looking at a rodney king situation if they beat the state case. The federal government will go after them. All this over a drug addict trying to pass a bogus 20.00 bill who also happened to be driving a mercedes truck when he was stopped for investigation and subsequently arrested.
In this era of cop hatred, I wish the best for the Minneapolis cops. Floyd was evil.
I can’t be the only one who thinks these activists masquerading as prosecutors purposefully undercharge to stir up chaos?
Chauvin is charged with "depraved heart" murder which does not require premeditation.
Acquittal will never happen, just for the sake of the billions it would cost in riots. Won’t happen, they don’t stand a chance at a fair trial. Maybe the others but definitely not Chauvin.
Can't wait for the shitshow
Either way expect more OT for us.
The defense must ask for a change of venue. Perhaps MARS?
“There are six crucial pieces of information — six facts — that have been largely omitted from discussion on the Chauvin’s conduct. Taken together, they likely exonerate the officer of a murder charge.”
https://medium.com/@gavrilodavid/why-derek-chauvin-may-get-off-his-murder-charge-2e2ad8d0911
rb
Lastly, and don't hate me for my opinion. Van Dyke was definitely over charged. There are no two ways about it. However, what he did was completely unjustified and his sentence was appropriate. Yes, I feel for him and his family but what happened should not have happened. Not only that, but if he only shot the offender a couple of times, I'm sure nothing ever would have came of it. However, sixteen times opened him up to a lot of scrutiny and his sentence was commensurate with what he did.
8/07/2020 12:26:00 PM
Wow I feel sorry for your partner wouldn't want to work with you.
Why 0403 on 08/08/2020? The original poster on 08/07/2020 at 12:26 speaks the truth. You were not taught to continually pump rounds to the body when it lies on the ground not moving. You were taught to shoot until the threat is over. Weren't you.
This was all done to fire up an apathetic voter base that won't come out to vote unless the candidates name is Obama. Rest assured, you are correct in your statement that there will be another sacrificial lamb to encourage MORE RIOTING before the November election. Any incident that the media can inflame will be used to create urban riots, in order to see if they can get an urban vote out, AND to scare law abiding voters from the polls. Mail in voting will complete this plan ensuring the theft of the election. Hopefully most POS are aware of this, so they're not the lamb. Unfortunately, some won't.
Anonymous said...
Wacko- theory here:
AG Kieth X Ellison over charged these guys knowing full well (after viewing the body cams) that the charges would not stick in court. The guys would then get out free and everyone would start rioting, again. He over charged on purpose to excite the very unexciting Biden camp and “prove” that the system is systematically racist. Oh and vote democrat.
————
Umm, election will be long over with when trial starts.
Watched the tape...
About all we saw (it was enough of an excuse to riot, but not much else) when this started was the alleged knee-on-neck; now, we saw before that. The guy was absolutely rigid insone kind of self-induced, alcohol/drug panic. ED or similar, related.
I have seen that before in what was really alcohol poisoning; person drank a whole fifth 80 proof on empty stomach, and was aware of the effects and it frightened, paniced them. They didn't swing or move around a lot, but were holding themselves rigid and would resist any attempt to get their hand off car door handle and onto something else, etc.
Exactly like Floyd; not stnn
Saw the tape. A real eye-opener.
The "knee" part was about all we were shown. Repeat, repeat, repeat until 280 towns burning.
This earlier material was very valuable;it indeed looked like ED or similar, some garbage-pail-mix alc/drug state.
Saw this before in alcohol poisoning, whole fifth of 80 proof quick on an empty stomach. Person aware of tremendous effect, and in a panic. Not swinging/cursing/fighting but you COULD NOT get their hand off the chair rung or whatever, got a death grip.Trying to hold onto that, trying to hold on to consciousness, I think. Origin of old old term, "He was stiff,"I guess.
Floyd looked similar; all rigid and muttering/growling, could NOT get him into squad, could NOT get him back out. I guess just try to control him on the ground until ambo arrived w/stretcher.
Found in usual environment, usual bulls__t streetlife activities at gas station/ convenience. The last 10,000 of these calls had better outcome this was the one that didn't.
One time the police might give them a candy bar and a joke and send them off quiet; next time may necessitate a fight or worse.
Whatever the result, we need to look at the CAUSAL BEHAVIOR THAT PUTS THEM IN CLOSE PROXIMITY/INVOLVEMENT WITH POLICE SO OFTEN.
Hanging on street, throwing s--t,talking crazy, 3 bum LINK cards and a fake $20, and the ceaseless, endless confrontations, begging, demanding, threatening, trying to swap a dead spark plug for that cigarette, cigarette, cigarette. More fools in the graveyard from stuff that started this way than from a whole big war or something.
Would you like the perspective of a seasoned and skilled criminal defense attorney? Were it not for the publicity and months of mass media lies and propaganda, I guarantee I would win acquittals on all the cases, even Chauvin’s case. These cases not only scream reasonable doubt but actual innocence.
First, it was a valid arrest. Floyd wasn’t arrested for passing fake bills. As the 911 transcript shows, after the merchant discovered the bills were fake, the clerk demanded return of the merchandise, Floyd refused, walked out of the store, and got in his car with the stolen merchandise. So the arrest was valid. The clerk who called 911 also stated that Floyd appeared to be extremely intoxicated and not in control of himself.
As the good officer who writes this blog noted, the autopsy reports Floyd had a lethal dose of Fentanyl in his blood (11 ng / mL blood). Fentanyl is a highly dangerous drug and is 100 times more potent than morphine. It doesn't take much to kill you.
Floyd also had, according to the autopsy, a badly damaged heart and suffered from two types of heart disease: severe enlargement of the heart and blocked arteries. At some point during the arrest, the autopsy reveals, he had a heart attack. When the heart attack first manifested, we do not know, but most likely during the arrest. He had a low dose of meth in his blood which is not really relevant. But he also had a small dose of heroin in his blood, which is highly relevant because we know heroin compounds the lethal effects of Fetanyl. He also had Covid-19 which, we know, causes breathing difficulties.
The most significant moment in the newly leaked bodycam vid is at 7:46 and at 7:53 where Floyd says, while still in cop car, “I can’t breath.” This was before he escaped the cop car and went to the ground and was restrained. An inability to breath is a tell-tale sign of Fentanyl overdose and being infected with Covid-19 along with having a heart attack would further complicate his ability to breath. Also, at one point, Officer Gray told Floyd he had foam around his moth which is another classic symptom of Fentanyl overdose.
In my experience, bodycam video almost always shows the cops were right.
Finally,the knee neck hold was taught by the academy in Minneapolis along with other academies across the nation. We should be aware that George Floyd's trachea was not on the side of his neck. If his particular hold were likely to cause death we would be hearing of hundreds cases by now.
The challenge for the defense attorneys is to pick jurors who will have the courage to acquit because, we know, if the defendants are acquitted the cities will burn again and you guys will, once again, be unfair targets. But Floyd died either of a Fentanyl overdose complicated by a heart attack and Covid-19 or a heart attack complicated by a Fentanyl overdose and Covid-19.
Thank you, officers, for doing what you do. The abuse you guys have endured over the past 3 months is horrible.
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