Quantifying Numbers
You know when police work started it's long and winding road into near-irrelevance? We can't pinpoint it exactly, but it happened in the first third of our careers, so just before the turn of the century.
- Factory worker A produces "X" number of units;
- Office worker B answered this many calls for service;
- Sales guy C moved "Y" resulting in "Z" amount of revenue.
Police work isn't that easily evaluated. There have been past efforts - Hazardous Movers, Rush Hour Parkers, School Absentees, Curfews, Misdemeanor arrests - "Index Numbers" in the parlance of the day.
The trouble was that the numbers never went down - you were always expected to outperform the previous monthly or quarterly totals, usually by 3%-to-5%. After a year or two, it just wasn't possible to keep up without really resorting to hammering the citizenry, which didn't make you very popular. Sometimes, the only relief was if your commander got moved, everyone would back off, and you could begin the 3%-to-5% increases from a lower starting point.
Later, it was guns, and we all know where that went with deals being made on the street for "turn-ins" and cops getting caught up in IAD stings, not to mention the team scandals of the 2000's where drugs and outright robberies ended up being tangled in the street-dealing.
Then it was street stops, then community interactions, then blue cards. We probably missed a few, but we all used to joke about "preventing" ten or twenty homicides a day just driving through the ghetto shitholes and being seen.
Police work doesn't lend itself to proper evaluation except in crime numbers, and crime numbers are near impossible to control or predict, depending mostly on sentencing and society's acceptance of being a victim how many times a year.
Opinions? How do we get away from numbers-based policing?
Labels: we got nothing
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
47 Comments:
When crime drops even one point upper management did it. It was their brilliance. Funny part is they never have a plan and never do shit but take any credit that comes their way! CPD upper management is full of incompetence and clueless people. Total disgrace! If this group ran a company it would be out of business before it even got started. A bunch of police impersonators.
I hate to say it, but CPD will never give up numbers-based policing because that would require a total shift in how policing is viewed by the superintendent of the day, and his command staff.
It would require a superintendent who is highly intelligent, a creative thinker, someone who knows that numbers-based policing hasn't worked and is just plain stupid.
Since every superintendent is just a worthless political hack of the mayor, there is no opportunity for change. Every new superintendent sees what goes on at the Comp-Stat meetings, and decides that the easiest route is simply to keep it going.
Without the pressure to come up with monthly numbers, that would be the end of Comp-Stat.
So, what would replace Comp-Stat, originally a failed idea that was pushed in New York City, and brought to Chicago?
The numbers will continue.
You forgot the Contact Card that led to the illegal Consent Decree orchestrated by Communits Obama, Holder, Madigan and the Tiny Dancer.
Fuck each and every one of those anti American pieces of garbage.
1. Vote Trump 2024.
2. Disregard any and all mickeymouse bullshit, even if dispatched thereto equals use of discretion discretely to effectively 19paul it, without attracting any shit from the shitheads, aka merit knucklehead bosses. How to do this? Shit, you gotta have more brains then the idiots, so figure it out.
3. Only violence in progress warrants enthusiasm, and even then, use your brains.
4. Enjoy the amusements of the follow ups to citizens' being victims of their own stupidities, there are too many to enumerate, so I refrain.
5. Pay attention to paying attention. Do not allow yourself to be distracted from this by deluding yourself into believing that there is a future in this department for career advancements without getting your honor soiled.
6. Work the job, don't let the job work you.
7. This is a marathon, not a dash to the finish line. Ask SCC, both the founder and the inheritor. They know.
I'm getting confused, thought police are the problem....
get away from numbers -based policing by getting the Democrats out of office and back to basics...
You don’t, that ship has sailed. Maybe a job change is in order.
Ask that 12th dist. Commander what she thinks about activity. She is a piece of shit, I'm surprised that garbage of a STUPIDVISOR has moved up on the ranks on the memory of her uncle Who was CPD. I was disgusted to see her picture on news paper having breakfast at the Black Church knowing how racist she is.
Get rid of the bean counters, lib losers, politiliars of all stripes and start a pr campaign that shows the truth.
Otherwise, duck until pension time.
the libs and dems want aggressive police activity,,,,, but only in white neighborhoods,,, not where the crime is the highest
You're a tool. That's it. You serve the politicians whims. There ain't another way of saying it.
Now it’s cit petitions or arrests on signed complaints. Also lack of trr’s. If an officer is doing those 3 things they are a superstar.
Also no medical and no IOD’s.
Police work can never be quantified. Too many variables. Give the police the necessary tools and take away independent oversight. Crime will plummet.
As said in a recent post… compstat is the root of evil on this job.
Perfectly stated scc. You just can’t keep up with the numbers. If they aren’t in the green, you get yelled at. Then the citizens end up taking the brunt of it. You can’t police by counting numbers.
Every number multiplied by Zero, is Zero. Every number divided by Zero, is Zero. Enough said.
You will only do away with the numbers games by making all quotas and "minimum performance standards" illegal. The minute somebody starts bitching about "where's your Part I and Part II arrests"/parkers/etc, they need to be reigned in from the top (or by the union). I knew a suburban officer in the 1990's who won awards from outside the agency for the recovery of the most occupied stolen cars for towns of certain size, and getting felonies approved, then the moron bosses would complain he didn't write enough parking tickets and tried disciplining him for catching felons. He didn't act out; he got even. He filed a Union beef, toed the line, met his MPS, and then went silent. You wouldn't hear a peep out of him all shift (Midnights 11p-7a) unless he was dispatched, or found something worthy of doing. He did this for a few months, then I heard the bosses asked why he wasn't finding any more stolen cars. By then his Union beef was settled, and the whole MPS was modified to allow for people like him to do "real police work" because felony cases were "weighted" accordingly.
Police officers are creatures of habit. Some like to chase dope, some look for guns, DUI guys and then those who do nothing. We have all been to roll call and listened to the rah rah speech or we'll split up partners or dump people into the relief pool. I always would work for a boss who asked instead of demanded and made threats. Those that barked the loudest were usually useless pooches when they were wearing a blue shirt.
Law. When did a law become discretionary? Your job is supposed to be to enforce the law. Since when do commanders and politicians get to decide to turn that off and on at a whim?
Why doesn't somebody bother to tell the truth. The CPD is not the suburbs (suburban officers have to work). The majority of Chicago Police Officers 50.1% do little or no police work. There are over a thousand house mouses, thousands of do nothings, and who's knows how many positions that are not required to do police work (TRED, FRU, Training Academy, BIA, and Constitutional Policing just for starters). The majority of the D unit comes in late and makes up for it by leaving early. God forbid they investigate any of their cases and make an arrest. The first week of the academy my class was told that 20% of the officers do 80% of the work. That was the truest thing we were told
I started in the 90's. The watches were all full and crime was bad (the jobs got answered but officers did everything in their power not to do paper). I fought with the veteran and old time officers every day on midnights because I was proactive. Everyday it was kid just answer your jobs and shut up. They bitched every time I made an arrest and they had to answer a few extra jobs. I never listened to most of them (some gave advice on how to do paper) and I'm glad. They were cowards, drunks, clout babies, and do nothings. That hasn't changed in almost 30 years. One thing that has changed is to see all the new officers who are in retirement mode right after they get off probation. They are lazier than the old drunks who have long since retired.
The bosses pushing numbers is out of necessity and incompetence. The majority of supervisors have no leadership skills and are beyond lazy. They won't be able to get officers to do the basics. That will always be the case. Instead of getting officers to do their jobs correctly so that activity would naturally be part of their tour, they force numbers which produce very little. Blue card missions put up the illusion that officers are doing police work. The truth is the dumbest attorney on planet earth can see that one officer does a thousand stops without issuing any tickets that something is afoot.
The Chicago Police Department is so corrupt nothing will ever change. The clouted will continue to get promoted no matter how incompetent they are. They can shoot someone for no reason (KM) while others get suspended or fired for defending themselves or taking actions that any reasonable officer would.
Think about the dog asses you've worked with over the years. You are humping going from job to job while some do nothings have been in the station for hours on a simple battery. You are answering another cars job while they are sleeping in the hole or behind a grocery store. How many times have you seen an officer say can I get travel time for lunch after they dogged a job for an hour or two??? In reality they were at their lunch locale for a half hour already. How many officers have you seen ride on everyone else's jobs so they don't get any???? Those officers magically never show up on the job they are supposed to be assisting on. That is the norm for CPD.
I could type so much more but I will stop.
I've been very lucky over my career and GOD truly has blessed me by keeping me safe.
I will get blasted for this post but everyone knows what I typed is 100% true.
Stings involving gun deals? No way!
https://southsideweekly.com/chicago-police-chief-larry-snelling-implicated-in-corruption-scheme/
Fundamentally, the measure of the effectiveness of a job falls in 2 categories: 1. The Benefit of their Presence, and 2. The Detriment of their Absence. The "The Benefit of their Presence" is easier for lazy leadership to classify everyone into. Ideally, the nature of good Policing and Law Enforcement falls into the second category (I'm not a Police Officer, just a citizen) where the objective isn't more arrests, but rather less crime. However, a precondition of using this ideal as the measure of effectiveness for the Police is a very strong and supportive DA's office and political culture. Without that, well, you know more than I do...
Back in the day it was said "a mover a day keeps the captain away."
One mover, 5 parkers, a bus check you were an allstar.
exceptional clear ups stats for the police
Hey, hey, hey, the 12th dist commander represents our LGVTQ community and deserved every ranks she has been gifted. I hear she was in a wild wild west shootout with bloods and crips back in her day for which she walks crooked. She single handedly got ride of those.
Use Roman numerals instead. No one will know if things are up or down.
I was a Chicago detective during the 70s and 80s. Instead of ticket quotas it was unfounding crimes. Monthly ratings, call ins, and threats. Always the threat of being dumped for not measuring up. The dumps were regular and always on your mind. I finally got a boss who I didn't like and who did not like me. I made the dump list and was offered the chance to go downtown and have an interview with the commander. I took the offer and went downtown and spoke to the commander. The result was two things. I was taken off the dump list and the chance for any future dumpees to go see the commander was ended. He got an earful and didn't want to deal with the BS system. I remained a detective until retirement.
The only numbers we should be concerned with is just how full we can fill those cells.
I was in a doctoral cohort looking for a subject for a dissertation. I read about how crime was written down in major cities, making crime statistics flawed and meaningless, in Chicago, and other cities. So it was said homicide statistics might be a good indicator, because you at least had to have a head to go with every number, but that isn't good methodology, either, really.
Then I read about how an attempt could be made to MEASURE public perception of safety as a way to determine public satisfaction with police performance. This would be done by survey in designated areas. It woul obviate the need for foggy, murky made up statistics.
Seemed interesting. I could do a dissertation, do my own interview process, and access the official crime activity and calls for service off the computer at work. Seemed interesting as hell.
I contacted my advisor at the University and he said, "No way. The school and the department won't allow that. It's too hot." So I did something else. That was years ago, but, I still think it might have validity. Why not identify the stakeholders PERCEPTION of safety and police performance, identify some trends and react to them? It gets away from the bullshit quantitative and the silly racheting up of numbers.
I agree that police work cannot be quantified. How do the scientists and data collectors quantify all the crime that did not happen in the presence of police officers? How do they quantify what major crimes (murder, robbery, burglary, arson, vehicle theft, etc) did not occur because someone was arrested for a minor crime such as UUW, driving w/o license, trespassing? These cannot be quantified by the person looking through the microscope, but often can be ascertained by the ones under the microscope.
When an officer drives down the street, how often has it happened that the officer was spotted by a future criminal who was intent on committing a crime but said criminal postponed his/her nefarious intentions because the police were around? That cannot be measured.
One way to see what happens when the police stand down from doing their jobs is to watch and listen to what happens around midnight for an hour every New Years Eve.
Ideally, the best way to qualify the work of your police would be citizens addressing the chronic problems in that district/beat and the rate of which officers assigned reduce or eliminate the crime problem in the area.
Sounds like CAPS but it is a true measure of what work is done and it's effect on the problem.
When officers start to think for themselves instead of running out getting "numbers" for the sake of the bosses.....things MIGHT start to change. That would require solidarity but POs are almost ALWAYS out for self, dont want to lose the early car, park car, mall car, etc etc etc.
Blue Mass 🚓🚑
🗓️Thursday, June 6th | 🕰️ 10:30a.m.
⛪️St. Mary of Czestochowa Church (3010 S. 48th Ct, Cicero, IL)
The Berwyn & Cicero Police Departments invite all First Responders, Families of First Responders, and the Berwyn/Cicero communities to attend this special service.
The Blue Mass is a blessing for all Police Officers, Firefighters, and Emergency Medical Personnel in our communities. It is an opportunity to honor our fallen heroes who have made the ultimate sacrifice. The Mass is a prayer of thanksgiving for them and their service to our communities and for their families who love and support them. All Faiths Welcome
Responding to Anonymous @ 04:07 AM...
Ask that 12th dist. Commander what she thinks about activity. She is a piece of shit...
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Oh God...another one who didn't make the cut for the "Entertainment Team". Let it go already.
You can’t put the shit back into the horse. Coppers in Chicago do not care anymore and no strategy will fix that. They now get the department they always wanted. Limp, flaccid and impotent. Congrats Democrats!
McCarthy screwed this department when he brought his bullshit Compstat with him from NY!!
Anonymous said...
Hey, can the northern half of 1631 be annexed to Norridge? From Addison north, and from Harlem to Cumberland.
5/27/2024 07:51:00 AM
Hell let county take over part of 016. I see more county coppers in a day than I see cpd all week up here.
There are no easy answers for these problems. It took years if not decades of incompetence bordering on criminality fir us to get here.
That being said, a good start would be to dump pretty much every exempt. Just like in the private sector, those who get promoted tend to tow the company line whether or not it is effective. They are groomed to keep the status quo. Add the that the blatant stupidity and lack of morals that our exempts demonstrate, it will be impossible for us to change with any of them in charge.
Hiring bosses from outside also is a dead end as they don't understand our culture of the unique needs of this city. Who then to hire?
Start by locating the rabblerousers and bosses, lt and below, who have been blacklisted because they wouldn't shut their mouths. An example of which was the 22nd district tact lt who defied the politicians n bosses by coming on thevradio and advising everyone what would happen if we let the blm demonstrators into Beverly (I think). Lost his spot but was right on.
Would these individuals orchestrate a revolution in policing? Probably not. But they would have common sense and, should the city every be ready to do what's necessary, they would be in a position to either take the lead or groom the next group of exempts to blaze the trail.
Not McCarthys fault on the compstat. That was good old Phat Phil who was watching too much TV and started it. Then upon be jetted out of a job he created the PMF which was good until he decided to pay himself almost $200,000 a year when he spends most of winter at the condo in Florida and pays several others $100000 to oversee it. Should be ashamed of himself.Look it up.
Those talking shit about 012 commander, what has she done to ruin 012? Was Klaubida better, how about Shemash the magician who was never there? She stands up for her officers and backs them all the way. Chung was decent, but Beth has the same characteristics.
The blue gummed, camel toothed ignoramus is going to keep all you liberated , white guilted democratic socialists Marxist assholes safe from Maga ! Beyond that your on or own , you sorry ass mother fuckers ! Just wait till the DNC in August the fun is really going to begin ! Fuck all you progressive, socialist, Marxist democrats you’re about to reap what the fuck you ass holes has sown !
If I remember correctly, in the 90's no one cared about the homicide rate. Certainly no one would blame the Superintendent or the mayor for it. it just was, that's all.
When officers start to think for themselves instead of running out getting "numbers" for the sake of the bosses.....things MIGHT start to change. That would require solidarity but POs are almost ALWAYS out for self, dont want to lose the early car, park car, mall car, etc etc etc.
5/28/2024 12:12:00 PM
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Get rid of the bodycams. All risk no reward to make an arrest. I know I know - I'm super corrupt that;s why I don;t want a bodycam. Ok then put one on every sensitive profession - doctors, senators, presidents - and let the peanut gallery hear everything later on. See how they sqawk about not being able to do their job.
Whatever, I'm done soon
You forgot the Contact Card that led to the illegal Consent Decree orchestrated by Communits Obama, Holder, Madigan and the Tiny Dancer.
Fuck each and every one of those anti American pieces of garbage.
5/28/2024 01:21:00 AM
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- right, and the ACLU getting to dictate our policy - remember when 'stops' decreased by 90% in one year? yes 90% - that's fucking Rahm that did that. Now add cameras on top of that where youtubers get to post your name and adress - isn't this fun?
Sir Robert Peel explained how in his 9 Principles of Policing. Which many police departments ignore.
Not McCarthys fault on the compstat. That was good old Phat Phil who was watching too much TV and started it. Then upon be jetted out of a job he created the PMF which was good until he decided to pay himself almost $200,000 a year when he spends most of winter at the condo in Florida and pays several others $100000 to oversee it. Should be ashamed of himself.Look it up.
5/28/2024 08:53:00 PM
Unsavory, not illegal, but it is very, very unsavory for a former Superintendent of Police to be using our honored dead to gain a bloated salary from the CPMF. Cline should be ashamed, but if you knew him back in the day, he never had any shame. He'd take a flaming hot wood stove bare handed and unassisted.
And, before somebody writes about his salary coming strictly from corporate donations, not the donations made by police officers, if true, how does that make it less unsavory? Two-hundred thousand dollars for wearing a Santa hat once a year delivering toys? Give me a fucking break. If he was a volunteer, he would have my respect, but he uses the CPMF as his cash cow, so fuck him.
Ask that 12th dist. Commander what she thinks about activity. She is a piece of shit, I'm surprised that garbage of a STUPIDVISOR has moved up on the ranks on the memory of her uncle Who was CPD. I was disgusted to see her picture on news paper having breakfast at the Black Church knowing how racist she is.
She is a really nice lady. But she doesn’t belong in a commander position. You should ask her about her negligent discharge that almost killed a fellow officer in the forensic firearm lab while working at her desk. And how it was covered up by Murphy Keeler Keating and then chief of dics Staples, her sponsor. Nice person, should retire.
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