Houston, We Have a Problem
Word trickling in from various posters, e-mails and a few eyewitnesses on scene.
IPRA is stumbling on this first test of their new found powers. We have word from more than a few people that the "investigators" were asking why the officers approached the OFFENDER while he was lying on the ground (lying on the ground still holding the gun) and kicked the gun from the OFFENDER'S hand instead of handcuffing the OFFENDER.
Also, IPRA got a walk through of the scene prior to the completion of processing? Can anyone confirm or debunk? This would play into plaintiffs lawyer's hands in a huge way.
The strangest information coming to light (and this is from people at Area 5) is that all four officers (only 3 of whom discharged weapons) were placed into separate interrogation rooms and basically, treated like they had done something wrong. What's up with this? Is this something being used to impeach other officers' credibility? Can someone explain? And are the officers being afforded either legal counsel or union representation in these cases? Or are they completely cut off from anything that might influence their statements?
IPRA is stumbling on this first test of their new found powers. We have word from more than a few people that the "investigators" were asking why the officers approached the OFFENDER while he was lying on the ground (lying on the ground still holding the gun) and kicked the gun from the OFFENDER'S hand instead of handcuffing the OFFENDER.
Also, IPRA got a walk through of the scene prior to the completion of processing? Can anyone confirm or debunk? This would play into plaintiffs lawyer's hands in a huge way.
The strangest information coming to light (and this is from people at Area 5) is that all four officers (only 3 of whom discharged weapons) were placed into separate interrogation rooms and basically, treated like they had done something wrong. What's up with this? Is this something being used to impeach other officers' credibility? Can someone explain? And are the officers being afforded either legal counsel or union representation in these cases? Or are they completely cut off from anything that might influence their statements?
Labels: shooting
posted by SCC at 12:13 AM
76 Comments:
Hopefuly the FOP will sue on the officers' behalf to get this Irpa joke the heck out of the way of our investigative process. ENOUGH!!! An outside, NON-LAW ENFORCEMENT agency has NO business running a criminal investigation!! Are their investigators even State Certified for law enforcement, let alone trained to handle a shooting? And the City has NO RIGHT to separate officers and confine them prior to questioning. That sounds like secure custody to me... If OPS wants to investigate officers, that's one thing. But to spearhead a criminal investigation? Why even have detectives? Please please please, someone involved sue!!! And WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU FOP??? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, CALL A PRESS CONFERENCE!!!!! THIS IS CRAZY!!!
One more thing...at my shooting, if I was placed into a room by myself, I would have gone nuts. The most stressful moment of your entire life, and you are going to sit separated from your partners like you have done something wrong, waiting to face some schmoe from ops? Talk about a hostile work environment! This is going to be a complete, disjointed mess. How will a quality arrest report be written? If two people are involved, each has a different perspective. If they cannot work through what happened, the report is going to be a disjointed mess. God bless the po's, and I truly hope that better days are ahead of us!
Lodge 7 of the F.O.P. has to be the biggest JOKE in the entire history of labor organizations
Officers, let the city burn itself to the ground. No more will I go above and beyond. It's a real shame what this City and Job has become. A damn shame. Let it rott!
All Federal Agencies and most ALL departments in the country have a MANDATORY 48 ban preventing officers from making any statements or interviewing them at all. This is something that most CPD officers cannot comprehend. But there are good and sound reasons for it. Psychological studies have PROVEN that under extreme stress you will not be able to recall a traumatic incident exactly as it went down. Within 48-72 hours, you will remember things about the shooting that you would not be able to provide investigators on the scene. This in not B.S. but is true and that's why the policy exists. Be careful and safe!
This lady was on the news last night. I almost fell off my chair when I heard her. She was not neutral, and did not seem to sound like she knew anything about law enforcement. In fact, she sounded ready to bulldoze the officers.
They way you all get treated here is unacceptable. The peopel have more power then the very ones who have sworn to serve and protect.
We need strong leaders in thsi city, especially with the police department. I would love to tell these people who are on a witch hunt to get back to their communities and focus on WHY crime is so high, why these thugs are allowed to carry illegal weapons, gang bang, kill others, deal dope, etc.
Look @ the 008th District. There's so much gang problems. So where are the reverends now? I know it was BUSINESS OWNERS who met w/Cmdr. Schmitz recently about these problems once again. NOT the rev's...
It is all about the money. More money for the lawyers who sue, more lawyers needed because of the suit so more jobs to dole out.
It is Cook County, has nothing to do about fairness, good government, legaleese. Just about the money.
This is all pretty fucked up! Time to have a lawyer on retainer.
We've been paying into the legal defense fund for years. I don't think it has ever been touched. If any officer feels they have been mistreated the FOP ought to hire a laywer from the peoples law office and sue the city.
Pallidin
TO THE POSTER OF: "Psychological studies have PROVEN that under extreme stress you will not be able to recall a traumatic incident exactly as it went down."
_______________________________
YOU HIT IT ON THE HEAD! Back in the early nineties, I was involved in a shooting. I couldn't remember my star # because of the stress. I'm close to retirement. I feel sorry for anybody that gets involved in a shooting now-a-days. It is truly insane in the world.
WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?
Postman Shot Over Mail Delivery. Postal Carrier Denny Robinson was shot in the leg tuesday while delivering mail in the vicinity of 118th& La Salle. The Postal Service is offering $50,000Reward leading to the arrest of the offender.
THE FOP CAN'T EVEN PUT UP 5 GRAND WHEN ONE OF US IS KILLED??
THEN ONLY DO IT WHEN PRESSURED, THEY SUCK, THE LOT OF THEM!
And the City has NO RIGHT to separate officers and confine them prior to questioning.
11/15/2007 02:12:00 AM
Uh, I think you better quick drinking so much kool aid or stop spiking it with Night Train.
If you are working, the City has the right to tell you what to do, where to go, and where to sit all by yourself. They can even force you to stay overtime in a small room with nothing.
You must be one of those boys named sue- sue this, sue that...
It is not right, but it is a fact. You do what you are told.
There is no $ is fighting gangs, drugs and poverty. Why would any Reverend want to do that if he can get a huge donation from "victims of the police" They would rather investigate if there is a potential for $ to be made. Hey IRS look into donations from the families of these "victims"
All I have to say is if your involved in a shooting, maybe you will experience such harsh chest pains that you will have to go to the ER for a few hours (2,4 or more)for observations, rather than being treated like a offender.
Anonymous said...
Officers, let the city burn itself to the ground. No more will I go above and beyond. It's a real shame what this City and Job has become. A damn shame. Let it rott!
11/15/2007 03:17:00 AM
I am a veteran officer, at one time I worked hard! In the 2 years I am king dogass, lights and siren only for 10-1 or back up other officers! Anything else if it is not important only exception is police or police family! traffic stop volutarily are you kidding me? Watch your station fax machines daily spitting out reports on gunshot victims! BE SAFE AND LIKE ME TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER SO WE CAN GO HOME AT NIGHT!
This off topic, but I was wondering if there was anyone who reads this site that know of other individuals who failed their background check to become a PPO, based on untrue information. Also did the personell department say that it would take six months for you to get official notification in the mail about this, and give you instructions about the appeals process.
Hey all you infantry and marine vets! Next St. Jude Parade you all need to volunteer for you unit to call cadence, and when we pass the reviewing stand..."Shoot, to kill...1, 2, 3, 4,...Kill, we must!" That, along with the stopping of pro-active policing, will guarantee a favorable new contract...oh, and a nice long stay on the psych-medical (tax free, by the way).
Just an idea.
Are there not state laws that are to be followed to investigate a police shooting?
From an outsider, Has the FOP given their members any direction to a CPD involved shooting. Are they advising you to give statements to these investigators? Are they requesting from the city these investigators certifications or experience in these types of investigations? Is there any other city that investigates police shootings like this? Do city homicide detectives get to interview the officers at all? What do your union stewerds advise, are they in contact with FOP?
When CPD makes any other type of felony arrest are they segrated from their peers and put under a light bulb and interegated. Where these officers advised of their union contractual rights before questioning? I would advise all officers not to give statements until they are advised by the FOP! This appears to be a knee jerk reaction by the City to appease certain reverends, media, and political finger pointing. Is this legal or job harassment? Are you offered medical treatment, a sedative, a good nights rest to clear your thoughts before questioning. Request a defense attorney from your union.
They shouldn't have been placed in a room by themselves...fuck this job!!!! That would've been it. Charge me...or i'm walking if this is how I am to be treated. It seems now we have a lot more at stake than a fucking thankless job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every officer should make the same statement. I choose to exercise my 5th amendment rights against self incrimination. There is no need for me to say anything in front of an investigative agency that has any decision making into criminal charges. I fired my weapon because I was in fear of my/or anothers safety.
If you are ordered to answer questions politely decline by stating I have followed all department rules and procedures any further investigation at this point is not for an administrative but a criminal investigation for which I have invoked my fifth amendment rights against self incrimination.
FYI...We have now learned that when a police shooting goes down now, the police are separated from their partners (per OPS) and sequestered in the Area. OPS goes to the scene and investigates with the Police now. The involved Officers are escorted to the bathroom, and back to a secure room. They are sat with until they can be interviewed by necessary personnell. Then and only then, is the round table held. Basically they are "in custody" until they are released.
There is one more step OPS can take, and that is to put them in a locked interview room with a camera on them. This is not a far cry, as OPS wants to be able to gather "more evidence" on Police shootings.
We have seen the future and it does not work....
The police did alright yesterday...bad guy 0 Police 1
Be careful.
11/14/2007 03:04:00 PM
IS THIS SHIT REALLY TRUE? Would someone please verify this nonsense??
Basically what we have here are politically connected OPS Investigators (Precinct captains). Remember, OPS reports to the rat on the 5th floor now, not to the Supt. So, just like every other city dept., it will be poplulated with politically connected con men, hucksters, do nothings, pals of play reverends, and aldermen's retarded relatives who no one else will hire. You know, the chicago way! Deny these rats your vote. Don't vote for ANY democRAT, no judge, no clerk, no alderman. no nothing. Power is the ONLY thing the rat daley understands.
Where are all the good bosses at??? Sgt's, LT's, CPT's, CO's, DC's where the hell are you? Those officers should have been sent immediately to the hospital to be checked by and ER doc for stress and anxiety caused be their traumatic incident and given a sedative! You all know what I am talking about...
FOP better get off their asses and get to rollcalls, they have explaining to do.
If coppers did in fact get seperated for interrogations without each of them getting legal representation from our union, our union, or lack of, must look into this and report their findings real quick to us. We demand it.
ZERO CONFIDENCE VOTE FOR THE FOP.
SHAME ON ALL OF YOU.
GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND.
I remember Donahue saying he would attend district roll calls, that was 3 years ago and I haven't seen him yet.
Question is, were they free to walk out of the room? If not, then they're in custody! Ask any judge. Were they given witness rights? Witnesses don't have to talk to the police. Best thing we can do now is get a lawyer before talking to anyone, not just an fop rep.
Read this it applies to us.
IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
Advice, don't talk.
Say "I want FOP rep"
don't talk.
Walk out of the room they have no law enforcement powers to detain/arrest an you.
They are not sworn, nor certified, nor qualified.
I was at the scene and the post scene at the area and sat in on the round table. I cannot confirm or deny whether IPRA asked any questions while on the scene but they were granted full access to the inner perimeter. They were very conscientious (think that's right spelling) about where they walked and they stayed together as a group.
At the Area all four officers were separated and kept in separate offices but had a detective with them at all times. They were allowed to walk around and get pizza and coffee and seemed to be well taken care of. My understanding of this was that it was ordered by IPRA and the detectives complied. In my professional opinion it was a good move. Lends credibility to the investigation. The officers were never left alone at any time and the det.'s did an awesome job. They did what they had to in as far as complying with IPRA's requests but they made sure our boys were all good.
At no time during the round table were there any questions as to why the gun was moved or the fact that the officers cuffed the offender. Some questions by IPRA about a window being smashed out of the car but nothing overly silly in the way of questions. Just common questions, How close to the offender were you? Did you see the gun? Where did the gun come from? etc.
Over all my professional opinion of the "new" process is that it is no better or worse than the old one. There was a lot of questions about the process and this incident brought to light even more questions about the process and how soon someone will actually put something on paper as to how the investigation is to be run and who is ultimately in charge.
These guys did a great job! They handled themselves Awesomely. The dicks did a great job and even the IPRA people seemed well versed in what they were doing.
Just my opinion.
Maybe POs should start suing the Depart and the city for violation of their civil rights. Tie shit up in Federal court. Cost the city millions. Then maybe the Depart and city will treat the POs right and not let IPRA or civilian REVs or media dictate everything.
Anonymous said...
I know people make off hand comments about not doing proactive police work, but in all seriousness DO NOT DO ANY proactive police work.
Agree and I remember ADS KIRBY telling us all during a class that What is a RED FLAG for IAD Investigations:
ON VIEW ARRESTS
JOHN DOE SEARCH WARRANTS
CONSENT TO SEARCHES
LOST AND FOUND / GUN RECOVERIES
These were just some of the highlights of her presentation to the NEW Sgts. classes telling us all what IAD looks for on "bad officers"
FYI
11/13/2007 07:38:00 PM
--------------------------------
Read this on a previous post and YES ADS KIRBY gave this class about what IAD looks for in the way of RED FLAGS on problem officers.
Basically all the day in and day out work every tact and gang guy or SOS or TRU guy has EVER done for the NUMBERS needed top please their bosses for the QUANTITY NOT QUALITY or work expected! (unofficially of course)
So, go hang yourselves boys and gals! Then as those who expect your "excellent" work step back when you are jammed up one day don't be so bewildered......now as you become jaded and crusty too YOU LEARN THE HARD WAY.
Call a dog a dog but call a fool a fool.
This is what you learn NEW GUYS over the years so heads up now!
Realize this:
No matter what type of difference you think or feel you are making out there..You are really NOT! Sorry to burst your police bubble but when it all hits the fan and your in sinking in it don't expect too many lifelines.
Even if there is a full blown riot and the world seems like it is coming to an end and the bosses say DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO AND WE'll COVER YOU LATER.........They will still hang you later when the video of you reveals that they HAVE TOO!
So..........keep your numbers up keep your spot and good luck!
They put me in a room after a shooting!
Then I want a lawyer!
If the Shitheads can play that game then so can we!
Whatever happen to the quiet rooms after a shooting next to the Commanders Office in the new 015 District station?
The IPR are gonna treat Police Officers as Offenders then you may as well plead the 5th amendment and lawyer up, just to drag the case out!
It'll take more than their 6 months to reach a conclusion for the store front reverends and the community!
if they put u in a interrogation room, take your gun etc..., and u feel like u are not free to leave at anytime. u are technically under arrest. i would hold down the key on my radio (for the tape). ask if i was under arrest? if the answer was no, i would ask to leave. if the answer again was no. i would throw a fit saying i was having chest pains or hyperventilating. i would call for the ambulance myself on the radio and demand to go to the hospital. while enroute i would call my attorney and have him meet me there. then after all was said and done i'd sue the city for false arrest because i was detained.
My advice would be if your involved in a shooting call an ambulance for your self they can't deny you medical attention. Complain of stress related chest pains go to the hospital. They can't interview in an er. By that time hopefully somebody can get an attorney there for ya before anybody has a chance to talk to you except your own lawyer
yes that goofy fop was inside the crime scene and were told to leave several times by the dicks
Just remeber, if you witness any IPRA investigators in the crime scene, ask them for their name and employee number and include that information on a supp. report. Make sure that you be very specific about what you see. That way, when the case goes to trial, these investigators will be right in the middle of things getting their assholes ripped apart by some shrewd defense attorney.
Also, do not allow any officers to be separated following a shooting. Unless indicated, this is not a criminal investigation and officers are free to move about and speak to whomever they choose. Remember, these officers just experienced a very traumatic event, why would you make them feel like they did something wrong? They need support from everyone ariund them. Stay safe everyone!
Would you wait 48 hours to let witnesses get together and get their story straight?
Segregating witnesses is as old as the biblical story of Joanna and the Elders, where Daniel caught out the lying elders when they told different stories after being seperated.
What's wrong with that? Sure, it's not fun to be isolated like that. But that's standard practice for investigations.
The LA Princess looked a little rattled on the news the other night.
Maybe the sergeant in 006 that is taking pole dancing lessons should take the LA Princess with her.
Some of that stress would be gone.
Here come Lovey & Lovey!!!! (aka Andy Dick)
The almighty FOP is a joke and they continue to steal from me twice a month,why are they letting the IPRA bully them?I get so many "I don't knows" from the lodge its pathetic,they are very quiet these days,it would be nice to see something come out of the lodge other than "I don't know",when is the next election?
What's wrong with that? Sure, it's not fun to be isolated like that. But that's standard practice for investigations.
11/15/2007 03:58:00 PM
You are right, but these witnesses are OUR employees/brothers/sisters and have JUST been involved in and EXTREMELY traumatic incident, and we, as a department, need to make sure that we don't make it worse, separating them is OK, but they should absolutely NOT be isolated alone in a room... Peer Support or even just 1.another uninvolved copper or a sergeant or whatever should be with them.
Unless indicated, this is not a criminal investigation
I think kyou are wrong there, if a police officer shoots someone, I HOPE some kind of crime has occurred either prior to or during the shooting that doesn't include the officer as the offender!!
So, IT IS ABSOLUTELY A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION... just hopefully not against the PO, the PO is definitely either a VICTIM or WITNESS in the incident. separating witnesses is SOP.
Basically what we have here are politically connected OPS Investigators (Precinct captains). Remember, OPS reports to the rat on the 5th floor now, not to the Supt. So, just
OPS has been reporting directly to the hall since the present mayor was elected. Don't think that is anything new...
Hey F.O.P. bashers!
All you retards voted overwhelmingly for the citywide team. This is the equivalent of straight ticket voting. When you put an entire crew from the same party in power, there is nobody to check them or balance the power otherwise.
You got what you asked for. You dumb fucks!!! So now are you going to bitch and moan until the next "reform" crew comes and asks for your vote? Then you'll vote in another bunch of assholes!
Good job!
a couple of months ago when the copper was shot in 002 his partner and the other two P.O's were seperated. this was done on orders from an exempt within the department not ops
I was at the morgue on an unrelated matter the other day when the "pros" from IPR were examining the remains of the future nuclear scientist gunned down by the police; they don;t have a clue! Pony up some trump, kids, and keep a lawyer on retainer.
As far as I'm concerned every copper out there knows exactly what to expect when the shit hits the fan. For starters your bosses are not going to have your back. The media is going to prosecute you. Ever corner store reverend is going to crawl out of his cardboard box and yell bloody murder. The copper is going to be treated like a criminal. Last but not least your revamped ops is going to do everything in its power to hang you. SO I ASK MYSELF WTF ARE YOU GUYS DOING CONDUCTING TRAFFIC STOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!! All I can say now is I hope everything works out for these copper.
Off topic,has anyone else had this problem?On both of my check stubs each month it says union dues and something like $38 each time is taking out,does anyone know who that is because I think I'm being defraudulated by the city cuz I aint seent no results at all for that deduction,I feel I've been violated,any ideas?
Come on people, the flop has more important things to worry about. Like where the picnic is this year.
Only be the police for the police and their families. Let the revs. clean up the crap they preach to.
I saw cousin on the news blaming the police for the burned-up women on the south side.
Would you wait 48 hours to let witnesses get together and get their story straight?
Segregating witnesses is as old as the biblical story of Joanna and the Elders, where Daniel caught out the lying elders when they told different stories after being seperated.
What's wrong with that? Sure, it's not fun to be isolated like that. But that's standard practice for investigations.
but witnesses are free to not say anything and leave when they want too.
we can't. plus, we are not offenders or criminals. we have to give a statement. criminals don't.
The Dicks still had ultimate control of everything...Don't worry...If you are right you will be fine.
Anonymous said...
Would you wait 48 hours to let witnesses get together and get their story straight?
Segregating witnesses is as old as the biblical story of Joanna and the Elders, where Daniel caught out the lying elders when they told different stories after being seperated.
What's wrong with that? Sure, it's not fun to be isolated like that. But that's standard practice for investigations.
11/15/2007 03:58:00 PM
Ok, sure. You go shoot somebody, THEN tell me how you feel about being separated from your partner... There is the technically correct way, and there is the RIGHT way. I'm interested in RIGHT and WRONG, not in some hoity toity investigative protocol bs....
Anonymous said...
Would you wait 48 hours to let witnesses get together and get their story straight?
Segregating witnesses is as old as the biblical story of Joanna and the Elders, where Daniel caught out the lying elders when they told different stories after being seperated.
What's wrong with that? Sure, it's not fun to be isolated like that. But that's standard practice for investigations.
but witnesses are free to not say anything and leave when they want too.
we can't. plus, we are not offenders or criminals. we have to give a statement. criminals don't.
11/15/2007 10:17:00 PM
Plus, often, WE ARE THE FING VICTIMS OF A VIOLENT CRIME, NOT MERE WITNESSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shitty as this seems it is the new way. They have to get the orders corrected but I'm sure a fax will come out saying all orders that say OPS are to be read IPRA. Something to that effect. I do not agree with it, bu it is basically the same as it has been. OPS was always within the red tape, they just weren't that fast, it took them a while. Sereration is OK as long as they have their freedom of movement and can call who they want. No such restrictions as far as I know. OPS never really asked any (relevant) questions at the round table, but they did talk to the PO's involved.
Seems the same to me.
Not quite sure how they are going to justify saying you must follow a direct order, but my guess is the Street Deputy or your Commander will actually give the order. You are not under arrest and do not have to stay, but per GO you must stay in a police related shooting until the investigation is completed and you are released by a supervisor. You want to lose your job because some know-it-all goof on this blog tells you to plead the 5th and leave, you go right ahead. It's a $72,000 a year mistake though....
but witnesses are free to not say anything and leave when they want too.
we can't. plus, we are not offenders or criminals. we have to give a statement. criminals don't.
11/15/2007 10:17:00 PM
It is part of your job to supply the statement.. that is why there are rules in place to keep your statement, given under duress, from being used against you in a criminal court proceeding... as soon as they start reading you your criminal rights, you don't have to say anything...just like any other arrestee... but we are compelled to give a witness statement, unlike the public.
"I have followed all department rules and procedures any further investigation at this point is not for an administrative but a criminal investigation for which I have invoked my fifth amendment rights against self incrimination.
11/15/2007 11:06:00 AM"
THAT'S THE PRUDENT SELF PRESERVATION PATH TO CHOOSE. UNFORTUNATELY, YOU WILL IN MOST REASONABLE CERTAINTY BE STRIPPED OF YOUR POLICE POWERS, PLACED IN A NO PAY STATUS & BE 30 DAYS PENDING SEPARATION. MAYBE FLOP WILL HOLD A BENEFIT FOR YOU, BUT IF YOU'RE A NO-CLOUT TYPE DON'T HOLD YOUR BREATH.
NEWSFLASH FOP, TIME TO TIGHTEN YOUR GAME& HAVE APROVEN CRIMINAL TRAIL ATTORNEY ESCORT YOUR FOP HACK TO EACH POLICE INVOLVED SHOOTING. THE DAYS OF AL BARSKI ARRIVING 4 HOURS AFTER THE INCIDENT FROM HIS WISCONSIN STABBN CABIN ARE OVER!!
MARKO & CREW TIME TO STOP ACTING LIKE OVERPAID PUNKS, MAN UP& REPRESENT THE RANK & FILE LIKE YOUR PAID TO DO!!!
11/15/2007 11:06:00 AM
Consider it verified. The involved officers were locked in offices at A5 (at least they weren't interview rooms.) They were "relieved" of their weapons on scene, immediately seperated from eachother, then transported to the area seperate from one another.
CPD personell acted respectfully and professionally . OPS, or whatever they are called, were rude, unproffessional, asked questions that were either ignorant of the facts presented, or just plain stupid, not to mention some that were out of their investigatory jurisdiction.
Furthermore, OPS, planted "investigators" to blend in with the crowd and attempted to incite assisting units. BEWARE.
"separating witnesses is SOP."
11/15/2007 07:27:00 PM
Unfortunately, your "SOP" is governed by the courts of our land. Those courts have ruled you cannot hold a witness against his/her will. Check your "SOP's," troll, or CPD G.O.'s.
You are no different than a westsided make believe Rev-Rund
I d like give everyone some
FACTS about the shooting on Lorel.
1st and FOREMOST the P.O.s ARE ALL SAFE!
The Police did an EXCELLENT JOB 3 of the 4 officers involved fired their weapons, the 4th officer did not because of the possibilty of hitting the other p.o.s, and the fact that he did not have a clear shot at the OFFENDER.
For those of you that have never been involved in a police shooting, they are a very hectic. The proces afterwards is very time comsuming and thorough The other night's shooting was no exception. The director of IPSA was on the scene with 4 investigators.(They have always responded to the scene of a police shooting, this is nothing new)
THE IRPA remained outside the crime scene until the ADS walked then through it. They did not request anything special to be done at the scene.
The Detectives assigned interviewed the officers involved, at the scene> after 1st making sure that they were all ok! Upon the arrival of the ADS the officers were interviewed by him, seperately, as per dept policy.
After that interview they were transported to the Area, by a detective, the one who had interviewed them.
The officers were NOT put into an interview room.
Each was in an office, the HGS Lts office, The Agg Batt office, the homicide office and the SVU office. They were never alone. The Det. that interviewed them at the scene stayed with them. Sid Davis from the FOP was on the scene and spoke to the P.O.s and was in the Area with them. The were never alone and IN NO WAY WERE THEY TREATED IN ANY WAY LIKE AN OFFENDER>
The major difference from the Lorel shooting was that IPRA (OPS) wanted to intervirew the CIVILLIAN WITNESSES AFTER the detectives interviewed them. These interviews have traditionally been done at a later time. (usually after the witnesses have all watched the news/ and heard all of the false rumors about the incident)( This actually may not be a bad idea.... it's not like they don't flip us later anyway)And seeing as how the IPRA's (OPS) files are discoverable that may actually help us (The Police) in the coming civil trial.The civillian witness was interviewed in the Area. The P.O. s were ONLY INTERVIEWED by A/5 Detectives and the ADS. IPRA DID NOT interview the Police Officers Involved. THIS IS A FACT
The Roundtable was no different than what we have conducted in the past. This was the only time that thes officers were asked any questions by the IPRA(OPS)investigators.
We don t know what changes are coming down cocerning Police Shootings, no one does. Once they come down I know for a fact that the Area will be out to the roll calls and explain it to the P.O.s. I promise you that.
Those 4 P.O.s did a hell of a job!!! Everyone treated them the way we all want to be treated after being involved in a shooting. The botttom line to all of this is YOU HAVE TO GO HOME EVERY NITE. YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO PROTECT YOU AND YOUR PARTNER"S LIVES. JUST LIKE THOSE 015 DISTRICT OFFICERS DID.
Remember:
You have just shot (and hopefully, killed) an offender. Your weapon(s) discharged without you having the benefit of hearing protection. The blast(s) have caused severe ringing in your ears, therefore you must request EMS.
Your hearing is greatly affected. You are unable to hear ANYTHING at all, and certainly not IPRA "investigators" questions
The IPR has watched too many CSI TV shows!
That's the extent of the Crime scene training!
BWAA !!!! HA!!!!!!!!!!! HA!!!!!!
Anonymous said...
All Federal Agencies and most ALL departments in the country have a MANDATORY 48 ban preventing officers from making any statements or interviewing them at all. This is something that most CPD officers cannot comprehend. But there are good and sound reasons for it. Psychological studies have PROVEN that under extreme stress you will not be able to recall a traumatic incident exactly as it went down. Within 48-72 hours, you will remember things about the shooting that you would not be able to provide investigators on the scene. This in not B.S. but is true and that's why the policy exists. Be careful and safe!
11/15/2007 05:59:00 AM
A man in the know!!Many SWAT teams do this after a shooting,send shooter to ER for sedative and driven home,NO statements for 48-72hrs.
FOP better get off their asses and get to rollcalls, they have explaining to do.
11/15/2007 11:39:00 AM
hey right!!!! I haven't seen someone from the FOP at out 1800 roll call yet!!!!
Talked to a private attorney friend yesterday who looked at the blog and reviewed the advice. Said there's some good and some bad. He gave me tips and would take up too much room here but maybe you should talk to a GOOD private attorney, just for future reference. There really are some good ones at 26th who don't mind giving advice when you ask them.
3:34 you obviously have an inside track to this--post your name so then you will be more credible
Help put the BS in the garbage where it belongs
Walk out of the room they have no law enforcement powers to detain/arrest an you.
They are not sworn, nor certified, nor qualified.
11/15/2007 12:33:00 PM
You are absoulutely right. They have no power to detain you if you are not under arrest.
I will not attend your benefit party when they fire you for violating a direct order, becuase you are on the clock. That would be a violation of the stupid rule and I do not fund stupidity.
The strangest information coming to light (and this is from people at Area 5) is that all four officers (only 3 of whom discharged weapons) were placed into separate interrogation rooms and basically, treated like they had done something wrong. What's up with this? Is this something being used to impeach other officers' credibility? Can someone explain? And are the officers being afforded either legal counsel or union representation in these cases? Or are they completely cut off from anything that might influence their statements?
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ask yourself what would happen if 4 civilians were involved in a shooting. sounds like good investigation procedure to talk to them seperately.
one would think that a police offcier would know that he could have his lawyer present during questioning if he so desired.
d like give everyone some
FACTS about the shooting on Lorel.......
11/16/2007 03:34:00 AM
Thanks boss (or Det.) This is why the right info needs to be released because otherwise the rumors fly and people start adding their own spin until it gets completely out of control.
IPR/OPS pass most investigations to the distict supervisors. They want to be seen as independent of the police. The only way they can accomplish this is by scapegoating officers and the easiest way is through a shooting.The day is coming people.
This is a disgrace. What the hell happened to everyone. I retired over 15 years ago. Believe it or not the "Job" was fun. We stuck togeter for the most part. It anyone was involved in a shooting, we were treated with respect and got the best "dicks" to handle it right. We started the COP with Danny Green, rest his soul, and Jane Byrne let us elect FOP (which you guys should really do something about). Police did not give police or police families tickets, or even friends, for that matter. The suburban police seem like advesaries. I feel sorry for the real police who are working the streets. Irpa? Hell, HQ is screwing you guys enough. HELP EACH OTHER YOU CAN STILL DO IT.
Retired, Thank God.
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