Um, FOP? Lil Guidance Here?
From the comments section:
- I don't know if you want to start a new thread or leave this here, but yesterday (11 Nov 07) Area 5 HGS had a closed door roll call. During this roll call certain detectives were informed that future police involved shootings are going to be investigated by OPS and the State's Attorney's Office, while experienced homicide detectives just stand by doing nothing.
- Most of us know that the majority of "witnesses" to police shootings are nothing but lying pieces of shit with an agenda, and more often than not we (the detectives) can prove their full of shit based on the evidence.
- I know many patrolman don't like the detectives but the detectives assigned to police shootings across the city are usually some of the most experienced detectives around. If the malcontents from OPS and the ASA's office begin to take over they are going to take the word of the lying gangbangers on face value without any corroboration or challenging their version of what happened. The minute one of these "witnesses" alleges some type of police misconduct I can see the focus of the investigation switching directly to a criminal investigation, and maybe charging, of the police officer(s) involved.
- The clowns from OPS and the ASA's office are not experienced investigators and wouldn't know how to conduct an investigation if their political hack lives depended on it.
If this idea does in fact come to be our UNION better step up, because if they don't I can see good, honest, and innocent cops being railroaded by two agencies hell bent on making a name for themselves. - To all you guys and gals on the street I offer one bit of advice: If your life or the life of another police officer is not in jeopardy let these assholes kill one another. Forget the protection of life policy when it comes to anyone but the police. Be careful.
We've asked for this a couple of times already - when do your rights against self incrimination kick in? At some point, this is going to come up and we can only imagine it'll be at the next police shooting. So rather than having an officer face criminal charges for statements he is forced to make administratively, maybe a new or updated direction from someone at FOP is necessary?
But as far as we know, an ASA and OPS (IPRA) are not members of the chain of command and cannot order you to answer questions. And any boss who orders you to answer questions in front of them in this political climate really ought to be up-to-date on legal and contractual protections officers are entitled to.
But as far as we know, an ASA and OPS (IPRA) are not members of the chain of command and cannot order you to answer questions. And any boss who orders you to answer questions in front of them in this political climate really ought to be up-to-date on legal and contractual protections officers are entitled to.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
193 Comments:
If God forbid you're involved in Shooting, ask for legal counsel. If FLOP can't secure counsel then it's time to retain your own& the next FLOP meeting we storm the gates & DEMAND THEY STOP BEING FRIGGN COMPLACENT!!
Can someone more smartly than me is shed some light on this for me?: the FOP recognizes ops. There is no literature ANYWHERE that recognizes IPRA or whatever they are called.....How can we be investigated by an agency that is not even recognized in our contract? It's not just a renaming: its a new lead, it reports directly to the mayor, and now runs round tables. Brand spanking new operation that affects operating procedure on our end. This is a whole new agency- is it EVEN RECOGNIZED IN OUR CONTRACT???
When faced with such a vexatious dilemma, I always ask myself, how would Janice Robarts-Dillon handle this.
Forget Our Police is doing the two things they do best- drinking and keeping their heads in the sand. What ever Daley wants, Forget Our Police will give him, or just shut up and like it.
Off topic, but I don't care.....time to vent......I would like to know who establishes the standard which allows people to call or label themselves "hard working sgt" or "hard working blueshirt". Of all the self aggrandizing things to say. Does the shoulder pop out when you pat yourself on the back like that? Whenever I see that on this blog, and it is said often, I think of combat veterans. I know a lot of guys who saw real nasty combat in Viet Nam, Korea, The Gulf and none of them ever talk about it. They don't have to. It's always the supply clerks and clerk typists who want to regale everyone with the war stories. Good cops don't talk about, they DO it.....So to all the self titled "hard working" whatevers....shut the fuck up.
If this idea does in fact come to be our UNION better step up
For the 50th fuckin time, we do not have a union. F.O.P. is not a union. And they will sit back and do nothing like always. How much you want to bet we go without a contract until 2010. Fuck F.O.P.
and we as coppers sit here and take it like pussies.
Um, I am a patrolman and I LIKE the detectives.....
We are getting pushed further and further to see how far we can get pushed. If we don't start pushing back, it's never going to end. I'd like to see 5000 coppers attempting to make their voices heard at the next FOP meeting. I would be there. Cincinatti P.D. was able to organize against agendas just like these. Somebody step up and organize us for our next FOP meeting, please.
Anonymous said...
Off topic, but I don't care.....time to vent......I would like to know who establishes the standard which allows people to call or label themselves "hard working sgt" or "hard working blueshirt". Of all the self aggrandizing things to say. Does the shoulder pop out when you pat yourself on the back like that? Whenever I see that on this blog, and it is said often, I think of combat veterans. I know a lot of guys who saw real nasty combat in Viet Nam, Korea, The Gulf and none of them ever talk about it. They don't have to. It's always the supply clerks and clerk typists who want to regale everyone with the war stories. Good cops don't talk about, they DO it.....So to all the self titled "hard working" whatevers....shut the fuck up.
How bout you shut the fuck up. They are talking about having civilians with no experience investigate life decisions made in seconds and your worried about "worker" and "nonworker." To hell with semantics, and frankly who cares what one thinks, unless you have a guilty conscience. Go vent elsehwere, not on this thread please.
why was there no demand for restructuring of OPS after the Austin 7? Why was there no reverends on TV demanding this and demanding that about this department after the Englewood however many? Why dont Moprah and Doprah include these groups in the same sentence as Burge, Suchoki and Finnegan? Isnt it true they, too, were stealing from drug dealers? Isnt it true they, too, were pulling armed robberies and home invasions while on the clock? Why is it the revs/media seem to continuously skip over these rogue cops? Is it maybe because they are black and the aforementioned have made various cultural excuses/have asked the lord for forgiveness and therefore are absolved? WHAT A JOKE! If these mutts want to give the people the truth than give them the entire truth! Sure Abbate beat a hapless bartender, but what about brother man on Madison who killed the guy off duty while working at a bar, went home, cleaned his gun and went to bed? Where is THAT story in relation to what is wrong with this department? I agree this country is a bunch of racist bastards and that is what is holding us down, however, if mary, turnip, and all the revs want to see offending racist they need look no further than the bathroom mirror!
If God forbid you're involved in Shooting, ask for legal counsel. If FLOP can't secure counsel then it's time to retain your own& the next FLOP meeting we storm the gates & DEMAND THEY STOP BEING FRIGGN COMPLACENT!!
11/12/2007 11:36:00 PM
yeah, good luck with that one!
WHEN DID THE CITY EVER CARE ABOUT FOLLOWING THE LAWS OR OUR CONRACT WHEN DOING SOMETHING THEY WANT.
THEY KNOW IT TAKES FOREVER FOR ANY COURT TO DECIDE ON IT.
And that is only if the FOP does file a suit, which they usually don't because they are just as much in the sack as the City as everyone else.
I thank the lord I had good detectives who advised me during my two fatal shootings. I hope others get the same in the future.
FOP, They got an important issue coming up. What lake to use for the fishing b.s.
The guy thrown out of FOP who I think is in B & A hopefully got the goods on these morons.
As usual with SCC lately.. panictime..Much ado about nothing.
SCC, So in all seriousness since I kinda consider this somewhat of an informative blog....What does all this mean for us? Should we still give statements to the white shirts??? Should we wait till our "counsel" from fop arrives??? What are some of the long term concenqueces to all this??? Please advise.
FUCK FOP!! GOOD FOR NOTHING CLOWNS. ALL ANSWER TO THE KING ANYWAY. WILL THEY DO SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT IS TAKING PLACE? WHO KNOWS. BEING A POLICE OFFICER IN THE CITY IS GETTING WORSE AND WORSE THESE DAYS. AND WHAT IS DALEYS RESPONSE; "IF YOU DONT LIKE YOUR JOB QUIT" NICE GUY ISNT HE? WELL MR. KING WHY DONT YOU HIRE SOME PRIVATE SECURITY FIRM, SOMEONE YOU KNOW OF COURSE AND LET THEM POLICE THE STREETS. THIS CITY WOULD BE UP IN FLAMES BURNING OUT OF CONTROL SO FAST YOUR HEAD WOULD SPIN!!
Can’t remember where I read this tid-bit of info, but OPS/IRPA can also (during a police involved shooting) direct the collection of evidence too. Can anyone confirm this?
Now I’ve read the G.O. on collection evidence, and preservation of crime scenes, and I don’t remember seeing them anywhere mentioned in the G.O.’s. And if they try to come on the crime scene, or tamper with any evidence, Can we lock them up? Just wondering?
The FOP will issue a press release to say they are against it and it is wrong and thats it,as they continue to steal from me twice a month.
Off topic, but I don't care.....time to vent......I would like to know who establishes the standard which allows people to call or label themselves "hard working sgt" or "hard working blueshirt".
11/13/2007 12:35:00 AM
Just ask the bid,"working sgt" from 005. Sgt. Rambo. Future exempt material for sure, if he can step away from the mirror that is.
next time you are at 26th street and, an ASA ask you "officer you have a number I can reach you at?" Tell them "NO, I NO LONGER HAVE A CELL PHONE TO BE SUBPOENAED BY A LOW LIFE SHARK LAWYER" STOP BEING FREINDLY WITH THEM. THEY ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. IF YOU WANT A TRUE FRIEND GET A DOG. THEY WILL NEVER RAT YOU OUT LIKE AN ASA WILL.
THIS JOB IS OVER!!! Get this through our heads. Nobody is going to help you. The aldercreatures get to carry guns and the mayor has his bodyguards but we are thrown to the wolves! FOP HELLO!!
NO MORE POLICE WORK! Let the MAyor answer when crime is out of control.Protect yourself and your family thats all.
SCC, So in all seriousness since I kinda consider this somewhat of an informative blog....What does all this mean for us? Should we still give statements to the white shirts??? Should we wait till our "counsel" from fop arrives??? What are some of the long term concenqueces to all this??? Please advise.
That's the point of the post - we don't know. A detective thought it was important enough to post the info. We thought it was important enough to ask a few questions.
Hopefully, we get answers.
Anonymous said...
Off topic, but I don't care.....time to vent......I would like to know who establishes the standard which allows people to call or label themselves "hard working sgt" or "hard working blueshirt". Of all the self aggrandizing things to say. Does the shoulder pop out when you pat yourself on the back like that? Whenever I see that on this blog, and it is said often, I think of combat veterans. I know a lot of guys who saw real nasty combat in Viet Nam, Korea, The Gulf and none of them ever talk about it. They don't have to. It's always the supply clerks and clerk typists who want to regale everyone with the war stories. Good cops don't talk about, they DO it.....So to all the self titled "hard working" whatevers....shut the fuck up.
11/13/2007 12:35:00 AM
Amen Brother
I wrote before about the FOP seeking the same rights the feds have when involved in a shooting, no talking to anyone until the lawyer is present at least 24 hours later. Some genius responded its bs and good to get your story out. Do you think that OPS and the ASA care if you get your story out. The change in the shooting investigative process will represent a significant departure from current practices. Come on FOP and FOP high priced lawyers is past practices a legitmate union issue. Since the employer has instituted a change in current practices, does not the whole issue become a grievable matter. Get that high priced labor attorney Gittler and Alba to earn their money.
FOP and the contract? It just gets worse every time. Our medical used to be free. What will we get? 3.5% a year and an increase you'll pay on your medical insurance. Oh, and don't forget higher union dues.
Remember officers if its a choice between you and your partner or the offender shoot the bastard. Any other time let the offender go. First consideration should be your personal safety and that of your partner. The next concern should be for your personal jeporady. Do you think that the ASA or OPS cares. Do you think that the bozos that respond from FOP are capable to deal with prosecutors and inept civilian investigators? Ya I know they come out and make you feel good and buy pizza, but most of the tough stuff has already been set in stone by the dets and others. These dets and others will now have a back seat in the process.
How about getting some advise from a non-fop connected labor attorney?
Anonymous said...
FOP, They got an important issue coming up. What lake to use for the fishing b.s.
The guy thrown out of FOP who I think is in B & A hopefully got the goods on these morons.
11/13/2007 02:05:00 AM
No, he doesn't! He's a complete goof
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/647477,CST-NWS-boling13.article
It just never stops with this disgrace of a newspaper. Check out the headline...Suburban Chicago Police Officer, Huh, he's a Bolingbrook Police Officer you friggin idiots. But wait you at the Scumtimes already know that, just another way to taint the reputation of the CPD.
If a states attorney shows up at the scene to investigate and asks me what happened, I'm going to say, "I would like to invoke my 5th ammendment right at this time, thank you." You have to answer on administrative questioning however the states attorney's office cannot ask you adminastrative questions. And OPS or whatever they're called now, they can KISS MY ASS!!
"We've asked for this a couple of times already - when do your rights against self incrimination kick in?"
Do they read you Garrity or Miranda at a round table?,or nothing at all??Sounds like FOP better get off its ass.
Dead men tell no tales ! Nuf Said
First of all, no person other than CPD should ever be alowed into a crime scene. Defense attorneys would have a field day it civilians, including OPS & asa's, were allowed to contaminate any scene. Also, if this new form of OPS is not part of the police department, why allow them to sit in at the round table and gather info that could be used in a criminal investigation at a later time? If would probably be best to scrap the entire round table process in order to protect officers' rights and let the dicks and OPS handle their investigations separately. Since OPS is no longer part of CPD, they would have to rely on their inexperienced investigators and also would be forced to subpoena all reports pertaining to the investigation. We cannot allow this process to be turned into a witchhunt every time a copper makes a split second life or death decision.
Remember the Carrothers (sp?) rule:
Officers, when in doubt or fear,
LEAVE.
It seems to be a popular political opinion look at the way Iowa law treated Mette. (Sp?) sorry about the spelling issue.
It's too bad that as a retired Dick
I have to read this shit about the police are now a target.
Looks like it's time to enhance writing skills within the rank and file.
Like them or not, at least most dicks can write (and think).
It's a skill , like shooting, that needs to be refreshed and practiced.
be careful always
Are all the negative posters on FOP officers who lost past elections or just negative people? You should ask some very senior officers what is was like before FOP. There is room for improvement but that could be said of any orginization. There is a meeting 20 nov 7pm be there. Most officers I speak to have never been to a meeting ,or the hall,or even vote when they get a mailer, they do not know their contractual rights.They complain but take no active role in getting the rights they want or keeping the rights that those who have gone before have secured for them. The only position i hold or have held in the union is as a member of lodge 7.But i go to meetings when i can. I vote.I give my input on things i would like to see negotiated in OUR contract. Officers need to do more than complain to each other if they want to effect change. Get involved! Any orginization is only as good or bad as it's membership allows it to be. Right now we need a strong voice that could be FOP if we all get involved.
IF THIS BLOGGER KNEW BURGE, HE WOULD KNOW HE WAS A COP'S COP. HE TOOK CARE OF HIS PEOPLE. SOME THINGS THAT HE DIS WERE UNORTHADOXED, BUT WHO AMONG US HASN'T FALLEN IN THIS SAME CATEGORY. HE CAUGHT COP KILLERS. PERIOD. THE LIBERAL ACLU AND OUR RIGHTEOUS MEDIA BURNED HIM. ASK ANY OF THE DETSCTIVES THAT WORKED FOR HIM, HE WASAND STILL IS A STAND UP GUY. AS FOR FINEGAN, PERSONALITY WISE, A NICE GUY, JUST SURROUNDED HIMSELF WITH INCOMPETENT IDIOTS, HIS DOWNFALL, NAPOLEAN COMPLEX HERRERA, A PIECE OF SH**. SOCHOCKI, JUST AN OVER INFLATED 'ROID BOY WITH ANGER MANAGEMENT ISSUES. YEAH, THEY ALL F***ED UP, BUT UNLESS YOU KNOW THE WHOLE TRUTH, STOP LISTENING TO THE FU**ING MEDIA, THEY TRULY ARE THE DEVIL IN DISGUISE. TO COMMANDER BURGE, GOOD LUCK TO YOU, IT WAS ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO WATCH YOU WORK.
GET THE TEAMSTERS IN!!!!!!
We in Area Four have gotten no such word as of yet but we are very curious as to what the departments next move is. You are entitled to certain protections under the law and contract.
The ASAs and OPS have always been a part of the round table but their role was as observers. They could ask questions of witnesses and officers during the round table and if the offender lived the ASA would take handwrittens from witnesses in attempt to lock them in AFTER the round table had concluded.
There will have to be some revision of the order which defines everyones new roles, until such time we will continue to operate under the current system which contrary to the media's and reverend's opinions is fair and honest.
We do have a few tips in the mean time.
1.If you are ordered to give a To-From make sure your disclaimer's ( in FOP book) the first paragraph and go over it with the Dets and FOP before turning it in.
2. If OPS, IAD or a ASA wants a FORMAL oral or handwritten statement SECURE LEGAL COUNSEL before you do or say anything. This is your right and FOP has to provide the laywer for you.
3. (Most Important)If you are EVER read your Criminal Rights on duty, off duty, in passing or what they may say is just a "formality" NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER say anything PERIOD. Ask for a laywer and SHUT UP, nobody who reads you criminal rights is there to help you.
Hope this helps alittle. A4 Grunt
Does OPS even know when officer's are justified in using deadly force???
Anonymous said...
As usual with SCC lately.. panictime..Much ado about nothing.
11/13/2007 02:31:00 AM
Much ado about NOTHING? Are you serious????????????????????
Has anybody heard any rumor regarding the FBI taking over the administration of CPD?
FOP: They are all we have right now and all the bitching and whining is not going to change that right now. We must demand and get from them what we are entitled to.
The city and the FOP know that will not happen because the police are and always will be their own worse enemies. Just on this blog there is backstabbing, name calling and jealousy. The FOP knows they will never have an effectual union meeting turnout and did not even bother building a building that would hold a real large turnout. The city powers that be just laugh at us and do what they want as it always has been and will be forever and ever, amen.
Off topic...
Check out the site for the NYC Detectives' Endowment Association and click on the "DEA CONTRACT RATIFIED" link. NY coppers have a contract 6 months EARLY with no give backs and pretty good money. Do you think they can sit in for the FOP?
I personally am going to get a CR on any and all OPS investigators that handle any of my CR numbers. If its just written directions or questions I am going to call down there to talk to the investigator. If their is any slight raising of the voice, swearing, or I just don't like there tone I am going right to a sgt and demanding a CR complaint. Remember it was OPS that insists affidavits not be signed for non criminal complaints. I then am going to go to the scummiest attorney I can find and file suit. My plan might not be for everyone but P.O.'s should at least get a CR on the investigator just for the slight chance you will be sitting in front of a jury. Your attorney can say "look how bad their investigation was, my client filed a complaint" Maybe the city lottery system will work in our favor. OPS investigating OPS!
Anonymous said...
The FOP will issue a press release to say they are against it and it is wrong and thats it,as they continue to steal from me twice a month.
11/13/2007 03:58:00 AM
.......and dues are going up.
NO MORE POLICE WORK! Let the MAyor answer when crime is out of control.Protect yourself and your family thats all.
11/13/2007 06:12:00 AM
Guys please becareful out there. By all means do not become gun-shy, but really think twice about getting yourself into the mix. Do not sacrafice yourself and your family because one criminal wants to do harm to another criminal. Just right the paper. 10-4?
Our supervisors had a closed door meeting this past week as well and our tact sgt. informed us of these changes and gave us the order.
If someone can help me understand how can OPS direct trained Detectives and ETs in the collection of evidence and the investigation. Will OPS be bringing in Federally trained investigators to do so. Also if OPS is allowed to be there, and they are not fully trained, can they not fuck up the crime scene? Which may be good or bad.
BE SURE YOU IMMEDIATELY CALL FOP AND REQUEST COUNSEL TO COME TO YOU ASAP IF YOU HAVE TO SHOOT SOMEONE!! BE SAFE ALL OF YOU!!
how come we all complain yet never do anything? I am guilty of it as well. Stop writing tickets/ANOVS. Stop locking people up, just issue a report, and let it go.
Good rule of thumb: If some asshole ADA or FBI agent advises you of your rights, exercise them immediately. Forget this, "If I don't talk I'll appear guilty" bullshit. I was read my rights by an FBI agent and told him promptly that I wasn't saying anything, wanted a lawyer, and was I under arrest. I wasn't, but the jerkoff from Internal Affairs told me I was required to answer questions. A long couple of hours ensued with me being bullied, harassed, and ordered to talk about something they had already made their minds up about. So keep a good lawyer in your speed dial. Here in LA the fastest way to rise to political prominence is to prosecute a police officer. If anyone ever doubts that, just remember the name "Mark Fuhrmann".
Hey SCC. I am a fireman and today we had a run to the Fulton Elementary school in the Englewood hood. They were in the process of having a school assembly with guest speakers consisting of Starks, all of the upper police brass, Eugene Pincham, Father fuckup Phlegr and a couple of other pieces of shit. Any guess of what was going on??
Just ask the bid,"working sgt" from 005. Sgt. Rambo. Future exempt material for sure, if he can step away from the mirror that is.
*****************************
Thats who I was talking about. The other guy who responded to my post misinterpreted what I was saying. I just feel that when I hear that "hard working" thing that the person who is saying it feels that they are somehow above the rest of us. Thats all. I agree that the dicks should do the investigations. I have seen them sort through some pretty sticky situations over the years. You cannot replace that experience with untested or uninformed investigators. The saddest and most frightening part of this is that some copper might hesitate to do something that might cost him his life, or that of his partner, or another officer or somebody.
And you thought the CPD was the only one being sure for millions
Remember the family of Illegal Aliens that were living in the 3rd floor apartment with no electricity last year?
Listen to this settlement... and it was a SETTLEMENT not an AWARD, meaning no appealing the decision.
STORY:
The families of six children killed in a Rogers Park fire touched off by a candle last year reached a $6 million settlement with the owners and managers of the apartment building, attorneys announced this morning.
A smoke detector had been removed from the third-floor apartment at 7706. N. Marshfield and one in the hallway never sounded, said John Perconti, attorney for the families.
This money cannot replace my brothers, it can only provide material things,” said Yadira Ramirez, 19, an older sister of five of the children killed in the fire.
A sixth child being baby-sat for at the apartment on Sept. 3, 2006, also died in the fire.
Ramirez choked back tears during a news conference this morning while her godmother stood behind her.
The owners and managers liable for the settlement are Marshway Limited Partnership, Marshway L.L.C. and CIG Management L.L.C.
The Ramirez family, who came to Chicago from Mexico for a better life, had no power in their apartment. They were struggling financially, and ComEd had shut off their electricity the May before the tragedy.
The family used candles to light the apartment, and one touched off the blaze, officials ruled.
Lawyers for the families did not sue ComEd. They determined the company took the necessary legal steps before shutting off power to the unit.
The Ramirez children killed were Vanessa, 14; Erick, 12; Idaly, 6; Sucette, 10; and Kevin, 3. Also killed was Scarlet Ramos, 3, a family friend.
________________________________
They are using candles and their candles start the fire....
A 3rd floor smoke alarm was removed but BY WHOM?
Welcome to America!
Why am i feeling alone?
A round table will now be like a grand jury looking for an indictment.
If every in that position I think the proper answer to any and all question will be the invoking of the 5th Amendment until R/O is able to secure legal council.
THIS IS IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR ANY WORKING POLICE OUT THERE!
Don't wait..because when it happen's it'll be too late trying to figure it all out.
Example:
Another "Police shooting" in NYPD. An 18 year old male black subject with Psycological issues is tearing up momma's house. She calls 911. The subject could be heard on the 911 tapes shouting he has a gun and will use it, etc. Momma is asked point blank, "Does he have a gun?" Her response,"yea..well you heard him."
She leaves the apartment. Cops arrive and are in front talking to momma, when JR. jumps from a window and runs directly at the officers holding a dark object under his sweatshirt. After he is shot they discover a hairbrush in his waistband (suicide-by-cop perhaps?)then momma volunteers that she tried to have him committed earlier in the day for psycological issues.
Cops acted in good faith in my estimation. It's a very tragic incident.
BUT, now Rev Sharpton is calling for indictments. The media whores are putting every unemployed dope dealer on T.V. and they are immeadiately assumed to be experts on police tactics.
"They kildt him for no reason. He only had a hair brush..shit!"
"Those cops are the criminals man..thay need to go to prison!"
Just two of the sound-bites I heard on CNN.
GOD bless those officers.
And Momma..congratulations, you just won the ghetto lottery. I'm sure his biological father who never paid support and only met him once, will be in line demanding to be compensated for his loss as well!
ONE MORE REASON NOT TO DO SHIT! Pray for our NYC PD officers.
If God forbid you're involved in Shooting, ask for legal counsel.
--------------------------------
good advice for anyone, not just cops.
SCC, So in all seriousness since I kinda consider this somewhat of an informative blog....What does all this mean for us? Should we still give statements to the white shirts??? Should we wait till our "counsel" from fop arrives??? What are some of the long term concenqueces to all this??? Please advise.
That's the point of the post - we don't know. A detective thought it was important enough to post the info. We thought it was important enough to ask a few questions.
Hopefully, we get answers.
---------------------------------
I hope no one here is dumb enough to answer questions while being investigated for any kind of potential crime without having their lawyer present to advise them.
To Anonymous 12:39AM
If you do sit back and take it YOU ARE A PUSSY. Get involved!! Go to meetings & voice you concerns. If you make 5 meetings the year before elections then you too can run for office. Don't be a PUSSY, Do something!!
So you are saying the dics PLAY NO PART in investigating a police shooting???????????
I say you're full of shit and the detective is wrong. Until it's on paper somewhere ....IT'S ALL BULLSHIT.
LET'S SEE THE GENERAL ORDER ON THIS....
I THOUGHT SO ....THERE IS NONE.
BULLSHIT --- ALL BULLSHIT
What are the repercussions for refusing to speak after a police shooting? Suspension? Fired? Well ... I know a boss has to order it ... a Sgt cannot, right? But is OPS there w/ the boss? What if the boss doesn't order you to speak? What if the boss sees it as 'ify' and doesn't order you to speak? Can the boss not order you to speak? Are the boss' hands tied or what? What does the G.O. say ?
Anonymous said...
Um, I am a patrolman and I LIKE the detectives.....
11/13/2007 12:59:00 AM
I like them too. I Never thought there was too much of a rift between us.
Where's all the smart guys that can sort all this out for us dummies???????
OK a couple of questions ... soory it'll be a little complicated ...
1. Do the General Orders have to state the dics can no longer investigate police shootings before they are disallowed?
2. DOes our contract have to allow OPS to now take charge of P.O. shootings before they can do so?
3. What G.O. dictates the penalty for refusing to give a statement after the boss orders it?
4. Does a boss HAVE TO demand a statement from P.O. in a shooting? WHat if the boss knows it is a grossly bad shooting? ANd now it is a criminal matter?
5. DO we ever have to speak to OPS ?
6. What if we take the 5th Amendment at the round table? I'm sure this has been done before in bad shootings ... do we still suffer the penalty of refusing the boss' order to give a statement?
SCC,
As for your question about 5th Amendment Rights, they never "kick in." Rather, every citizen (even the police) ALWAYS has the right to remain silent. It is a Constitutional right. However, do not confuse your right to remain silent with your obligation as a police officer to explain what happened at a shooting. That obligation has always existed. Please consult the General Orders. Therefore, if you choose to remain silent in the face of an investigation, the law allows it BUT you can be disciplined for your failure to cooperate. It has always been that way.
To all you union haters, I remind you that none of you will ever use a gun on duty during your career as you are a bunch of lazy keyboard tapping slobs. You bitch just so you have something to do. As for the hardworking police that may be involved in a shooting, be advised that General Order 02-09 remains in full force and effect. The union will be hard pressed to explain exactly how future shootings will be handled without a new G.O. I am sure the FOP will update its membership when changes are actually put in place.
future police involved shootings are going to be investigated by OPS and the State's Attorney's Office, while experienced homicide detectives just stand by doing nothing.
__________________________________________________________________
Me thinks you’re full of shit. You tell me where ANY crime is off limits to the police department.
You tell me where the Constitution of the State of Illinois gives the ASA or some ho-dunk OPS clowns the authority to INVESTIGATE any crime.
WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
What if the coppers shoots and kills 1 of 2 offenders. And the 2nd offender is charged and brought to trial … without the police department ever investigating.
Ya, I can see a murder trial w/ no cops testifying …just Bertha the OPS investigator … YA…
Lemme see it in writing or its all just blowing smoke.
YA… WHO’S GONNA WRITE UP THE ARREST REPORT ON THE 2ND OFFENDER? THAT’S RIGHT AN OFFICER. SO THE OFFICER IS GOING TO RELY ON THE ASA’S STATEMENT “THE BAD GUY TOLD ME HE DID IT …”
CAN THE OFFICER NOW C.I THE CAUSE ? HA HA ……WHAT IF THE OFFICER FEELS HE DOES NOT HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE?
SHOW ME SOME PAPER WHERE THIS IS ALL WRITTEN DOWN …. AS IT IS MOST LIKELY NOT ….
YOU ARE WRONG DETECTIVE. OR YOUR SGT WHO HELD THE ROLL CALL IS WRONG .
Eric Zorn's column has an interesting slant today. He seems to be a two-faced reporter when it somes to seeking justice. He is really implying that enough is not being done in prosecuting the Stebic and Peterson cases and that you don't need a body for a sucessful prosecution. It sure sounds like the newspaper columns leading up to the prosecution of Dr. Sam Sheppard in Ohio. As you may remember Dr. Sam's case was the basis for the TV show and movie, "The Fugitive". Dr. Sam was railroaded by the press into prison and was shown to be innocent years later. This case also ended up being the basis for change of venue in cases with prejudical press coverage. Eric doesn't care about the facts, he just wants his way.
WHere in the Illinois Constituion does it say who can investigate crimes?
Traffic light tickets were ruled unconstitutional in some states because the state constitutions said a POLICE OFFICER had to witness and write a moving violation. So that stuff is usualoly defined ....
OK all you smart guys ... any help?????????????
P.S. to my commenet about about Eric Zorn.
Stebic and Peterson are probably guilty as hell, but unless they get a confession they are probably going nowhere.
Can someone please post where this information is IN WRITING ?
A QUIZ FOR THE READERS:
Name two Chicago Police Officers (Outside of LaTanya Haggerty) that have been fired for on-duty shooting incidents in the past fifteen years. You can't do it.
So............
HERE'S A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION:
Is your union really complacent and worthless OR are the union haters on this blog just a bunch of cry babies that (for obvious reasons, i.e. spelling, grammar, IQ, etc.) have never done any real policing and are real dummm?
Ive been a det. for 35 years,here is some advice:
First of all carry that rights card with you, you know the one that starts with "you have a right to remain silent" etc. Read it to your arrestees but remember you have the same rights too. Don't let these people get away with giving you ADMINISTRAIVE RIGHTS in an attempt to force you to give a statement. You might be told that this kind of statement cannot be used against you in a criminal matter, DON'T BELEIVE THAT BULLSHIT.
What do you think their purpose is at the end of this type of investigation, its not to clear you, ITS TO PUT YOU IN
JAIL.
Did any one ever figure out who gave this new ops group
the right to investigate criminal charges.
Re:
sgt dave kinney said...
I thank the lord I had good detectives who advised me during my two fatal shootings. I hope others get the same in the future.
11/13/2007 01:51:00 AM
You never shot anybody! What the hell are you talking about? Go back to Mickey Mouse Ears and quit posting non-sense! And NO, I don;t want to buy a bullet proof vest off you.
and all the complaining on this site about the fop and you are all gonna vote for the same people....What a bunch of tools
One of us is going to not just get stripped but charged because of this bullshit. Why work at the risk of losing your job and freedom? Time to hide and go against every thing that made me want to become a chicago police officer. A big fuck you for all the bosses and politicians who have allowed our department to become what it is today......this job sucks!!!!!!
Come on the FOP has been in bed with city forever..They have never filed a lawsuit on behalf of a police offficer ever..Not one case..Never...They are sellouts ,,They are and always be in the pockets of THE KING...Have they ever done anything fore anyone ,just one person...is thier anyone out thier that has on story...just one..all you get fro the FOP is we cant,the city can,its not up to us ..we are looking into it,i get back to you..send me a copy,,LOSERS
OFF TOPIC, I HEAR BOLINGBROOK PD IS TESTING NEXT YEAR. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THEY PAY. IS THERE OVERTIME. HOW ARE THE BOSSES AND GUYS YOU WORK WITH. CAN YOU BE AGGRESSIVE AND LOCKUP PEOPLE AND IMPOUND THEIR CARS. ALSO DO THRY PAY FOR ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT?
If I shoot someone and I am ordered to talk to one of those jokers (ASA or OPS)you better believe I am exercising my constitutional rights.
I would rather lose this shit job than go to jail at the hands of the Crook COunty States Attorney's office and Dope-P-S because it is politically correct to hang police out to dry these days.
Don't ever underestimate the need for a good detective when a police shooting is being investigated. The ones that are sent out have the experience regarding police shootings. Most PO's tend to say too much or want to explain too much Remember ANYTHING you say can be used against you, but what you don't say can't be used against you. Let the detective and the FOP counsel who hopefully have experience help you
I know people make off hand comments about not doing proactive police work, but in all seriousness DO NOT DO ANY proactive police work. Back each other up, answer calls and only arrest on signed complaints. FOP needs to stand up and demand that for the better of its members all police officers should return from no bid units and positions not covered completely by the contract back to the patrol division. I know it will never happen, and would be too painful for people to give up there cushy spots in TRU, caps offices and tac teams but just think how much it would make a difference. Can you imagine if say everyone jumped ship from narcotics back to patrol. How much money do you think the city would loose from the fed's because they didn't have that specialized unit. What do you think the city would do or give us in return for filling those spots? now multiply that by all the other units. Now lets say the city didn't cave in and just filled those spots by reverse seniority, Its still a win win situation for us. Now they have to run those units under the contract and people that want to go back to the units can just bid back. Or lets say they were forced to make tests for those units and was filled by qualified individuals in that area of expertise. Still a win win. Forced is the key word. We need to have the upper hand to make serious changes in the way the department is run.
SCC,
When I sent you the original post regarding OPS and the ASAs conducting investigations please let the readers on this blog know that me and my fellow detectives are very concerned about this. This is not some post to "stir the pot". This could quickly become a reality.
We have checked all current G.O.s regarding crime scenes and police involved shootings and as of right now we, the detectives, have the authority and the right to conduct our investigation without the aid or assistance of either OPS or the ASAs. And we intend to inform anyone who tries to interfere with our investigation of that fact.
The magnitude of a police involved shooting is not lost on us. As a matter of fact it is the most important investigation we handle.
If you are involved in a police shooting, try to keep the radio talk to a bare minimum and TALK TO NO ONE in plain clothes until you are certain it is a detective.
The current ASAs assigned to Felony Review are a fucking joke. Most of them come from small out of state towns and are clueless. But since they've watched every fucking episode of L.A. Law they actually believe they belong in the big city. And with the State's Attorney's Spot up for grabs you know the grandstanding, backstabbing jagoffs running for that spot would like nothing more than "show the public" what a law and order person they are by prosecuting some poor copper who had to make a decision in the blink of an eye.
I will say it one more time: FUCK THE PROTECTION OF LIFE POLICY IF IT DOES NOT PERTAIN TO YOURSELF, YOUR PARTNER OR ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER. Let them kill each other. We will be more than happy to show up at a homicide scene of some mutt, knowing all police personnel are safe and sound and the bad guy got away...
Be careful everyone!!!
Anyone here something about an off duty dumbass getting road rage and punching some old timer?
NIMNUT SAYS:
I wrote before about the FOP seeking the same rights the feds have when involved in a shooting, no talking to anyone until the lawyer is present at least 24 hours later.
I SAY:
The feds have no such thing. PERIOD! If you think that they do, please post their rule, order, directive, or whatever else it is you are referring to. Otherwise, please shut the hell up.
Two questions
1. Can anyone name any police involved shooting that was ruled unjustified by OPS?
2. Now that they are no longer part of the police department can PO's get CR numbers on OPS investigators?
How many times do I have to say it. If you dont do a damn thing you have nothing to worry about.
All you tuff guy hard chargers never learn until you are hung out to dry. FUCK this city and FUCK this department. If we worked for a real Police department these rules would already be in place. No matter what you do these days its wrong. How many coppers have to get hung out to dry by that little studdering prick mayor of ours before we will learn.
Im not a dog...Im a hard workin copper that wont work for a city that refuses to support its own Police Officers. Sorry but... if you put shit in you get shit out.
I am paying the price for what all those corrupt retired mother fuckers did before I even got on the job.
Stop doing anything but answer your calls and give great police service by writing a shit load of reports. Fuck the mayor, donawho and the rest of those sell out fuck heads. Our benefits have gone to shit. we go 4 years at a time without a raise. Are you people fuckin stupid idiots or what. FUCK THIS CITY! Get mad and stop being stupid fuckers.
To all those who think the original post is "Bullshit" you are living in a cave. I was at that Roll Call and that is what was said to the detectives who handle police shootings. It may not be "written" down, but the sergeants conducting this Roll Call didn't make this shit up. They were genuinely concerned. They got it from somewhere and that's no BULLSHIT. So before you start claiming bullshit shut your uniformed mouth and let those who care about other coppers make known what should be known to them.
I've handled many police shootings and for our sergeants to inform us of an impending change regarding these investigations this information definitely came from higher up.
I doubt that ASA's will become directly involved with any investigation. They would lose their limited liability against unlawful prosecution if they become part of an ivestigation. Keep your crime scenes secure. Document on paper anyone who crosses into your scene. Document anyone who orders you to allow anyone but the police access to that scene. Lets see how they stand up under cross
OFF TOPIC: Anyone know the condition of the old man who got punched by the drunk off duty CPD last night on the south side? Guess it was in Palos and the old man got dropped after a road rage incident. Thats all I got. Anyone have any further? This should be interesting.
Hey SCC. I am a fireman and today we had a run to the Fulton Elementary school in the Englewood hood. They were in the process of having a school assembly with guest speakers consisting of Starks, all of the upper police brass, Eugene Pincham, Father fuckup Phlegr and a couple of other pieces of shit. Any guess of what was going on??
__________________
Probably not a Mensa meeting.
Is your union really complacent and worthless OR are the union haters on this blog just a bunch of cry babies that (for obvious reasons, i.e. spelling, grammar, IQ, etc.) have never done any real policing and are real dummm?
____________________
Very insightful Mark. By the way, dumb has a "b".
Anyone hear about the off duty incident in Palos???????
FYI:
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071113/NEWS01/71113029/1008/NEWS01
Can I get a "yee Haw"
Let the detective and the FOP counsel who hopefully have experience help you
--------------------------
It seems to me that the person investigating such an incident should not be trying to help anyone. They should be trying to find out what relaly happened in what is often a onfusing and unclear situation.
legal counsel is ALWAYS a good idea when anyone in being investigated by police, includes cops.
Please tell me Abbate wasn't driving around Palos Park last night....please not again.
. . . Name two Chicago Police Officers (Outside of LaTanya Haggerty) that have been fired . . .
##################################
LaTanya Haggerty was not a Police Officer.
She was the victim of a police shooting whoose family won a $18 million dollar lottery.
Was that Hairbrush loaded?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071113/ap_on_re_us/police_teen_shot_6
I am a patrolman and I honestly don't mind the dicks. The dicks in area 2 (midnights) always seem to come pretty quick, especially to the shootings police related or not.
If I could remember some of the names I would.
What if your sector Sgt. arrives on the scene and gives you your criminal rights? Would that rule out the demand by OPS and the exempts that you give an administrative statement that can't be used against you?
regarding shootings
When I was a younger officer an old timer once told me that if he were to be involved in a shooting, he would demand medical treatment for chest pains, before he gave anyone a statement about anything.
Then several days later when he felt better and had a chance to discuss things with his attorney, he'd give the statement.
Remember the order requires you to give a statement only if youre physically able to do so.
This is really not a far-fetched thing since after a shooting one is liable to be upset and may need time to calm down and collect his thoughts
Fortunately I was never involved in a shooting but I kept these words of wisdom close to me heart.
Now that Im retired and still carry everywhere I still keep it in the back of my mind
Im sharing it with al of you.
Stay safe my brothers and sisters
Get your pensions
New General Order 07-69
Armed Honor Students
All sworn personal when confronted with an armed Honor Student
will utilize the following techniques:
-With a loud clear voice command the subject to, "Stop! Please .
If the subject does not comply then,
-"Stop! Pretty-Please will be utilized. If these fail to elicit compliance a final attempt will be made using,
-"Stop! Pretty -Please with Sugar on Top.
At this point if the Honor Student is still armed the officer(s) will code the assignment with a 19-Paul, "My Bad" and return to service.
to 01:08 PM
perhaps you ought to take a second from looking in the mirror and READ the order YOURSELF
Ill tell you this. ANYONE who outranks you ( like a SGT) can order you to do any legal job related task
Anonymous said...
Has anybody heard any rumor regarding the FBI taking over the administration of CPD?
11/13/2007 10:42:00 AM
Yea, just now from you.
If you in a shooting ask for an attorney. You will be ordered to answere questions get the name and star of the supervisor giving the order. State that you are in shock and would like to go to the hospital or you are having chest pains. Do not blindly answer questions from anyone including det. without being ordered to. This is going to get worse before it gets better and the mayor and states attorney are politicans who will throw you to the wolves to get a vote.The last thing you want is a jury in this county decieding your fate. Lastly do not obstruct the investigation but do not open your mouth without being ordered. YOU WERE IN FEAR FOR YOUR LIFE YOUR PARTNERS LIFE AND THE LIVES OF ALL THE CITIZENS IN THE AREA.
to the guy with the five questions at 1:19 PM
I cant answer all of them but I'll tell you this
In a grossly bad shooting the shooting officer should be more concerned aboput not being charged with and convicted of a crime
When the police shoot, someone will be charged criminally, with some type of bodily harm charge.
Either the offender or the officer will be charged
Disobedience of a directive either oral or written carries penalties to be determined by the Superintendant and ultimately by the arbitrator or maybe the court
I suggets you try and read the order since it affects your freedom andf livelihood
Id read it but Im retired
know a boss has to order it ... a Sgt cannot, right?
Hello, a Sergeant IS a boss, and CAN give orders... Usually the WC or ADS would give the order to give a one on one statement regarding a shooting.
I would recommend that if you are AWARE of a police shooting call FOP.
Tell them where and the beat involved if known. You don't have to give your name. Don't assume that someone else has called. The sooner the better. If you are involved in the shooting NEVER use your own cell phone or that of your partners to call anyone. Ask someone to make any calls for you.
If you are at the scene of a police shooting (not involved) be it before, during, or after be aware of who you are talking with. I was on the scene of a police shooting and being from an outside unit didn't know anyone other then the guys from my unit. I see a guy walking around and standing next to various groups of police. He wasn't talking with any bosses or dicks. A little while latter he comes over to me and my partner and asked us what happened and if we saw the shooting. My partner and I walked off without answering. When I saw a dick I recognized from other jobs, I asked him if he knew the guy that asked the questions.
The guy asking us questions was an OPS investigator. We figure he was trying to get info by blending in and asking the casual "whats happening."
By the way, he had a badge/ID card holder around his neck, but it was hard to see in the dark of night.
Get that high priced labor attorney Gittler and Alba to earn their money.
I don't think FOP uses them anymore...
OK does anyone read the paper, yesterdays Sun-Time, (the friend of all police) has a big article that OPS will now investigate all police shootings, and issue all press information, no more Pat Camden andd our side will ever get out. Todays editorial pg 23 thinks that this is the greatest idea since sliced bread. The ff-ing public just dosen't care and never will. Politics rule and we dont get involved. Reaction is everytjing in this bcity and the department, CYA brothers, and don't talk to any one with an attorney present, and best don't talk at all.
Wee bit off topic:
Just watch an episode of Judge Mathis when a Los Angeles Officer filed a suit against a person who beefed on him with IAD. The compliant against the officer was that he made a demeaning Jewish remark to a Jewish guy who he pulled over for speeding.
When the officer testified he said he did every thing by the book, but the defendant lied and stated he made a demeaning remarks about Jews.
IAD unfounded the case and after the defendant testified, the officer produced a audio copy of the conversation that he had with the driver and lo and behold he won the case and walked away with $5000.00 because he was disgraced by the complaint which possibly caused harm to any future promotions.
Well if that officer can win in civil court we can too.
3. (Most Important)If you are EVER read your Criminal Rights on duty, off duty, in passing or what they may say is just a "formality" NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER say anything PERIOD. Ask for a laywer and SHUT UP, nobody who reads you criminal rights is there to help you.
Hope this helps alittle. A4 Grunt
11/13/2007 10:31:00 AM
You got it!!!
Remember, when you are being read your criminal rights, YOU ARE THE SAME AS ANY MICKEY THE MOPE YOU OR WE HAVE EVER ARRESTED, keep in mind how they made the mistake of talking... and how "we" try to get them to talk...
Does OPS even know when officer's are justified in using deadly force???
11/13/2007 10:34:00 AM
I doubt it, I was at a CRP once where the OPS investigator stated that the officer had NO RIGHT to stop a motorist who disobeyed him while he was directing traffic. WHAT A JOKE...
Anonymous said...
Come on the FOP has been in bed with city forever..They have never filed a lawsuit on behalf of a police offficer ever..Not one case..Never...They are sellouts ,,They are and always be in the pockets of THE KING...Have they ever done anything fore anyone ,just one person...is thier anyone out thier that has on story...just one..all you get fro the FOP is we cant,the city can,its not up to us ..we are looking into it,i get back to you..send me a copy,,LOSERS
11/13/2007 02:32:00 PM
You are WRONG!!!
Go do your homework.
Anonymous said...
Are all the negative posters on FOP officers who lost past elections or just negative people? You should ask some very senior officers what is was like before FOP. There is room for improvement but that could be said of any orginization. There is a meeting 20 nov 7pm be there. Most officers I speak to have never been to a meeting ,or the hall,or even vote when they get a mailer, they do not know their contractual rights.They complain but take no active role in getting the rights they want or keeping the rights that those who have gone before have secured for them. The only position i hold or have held in the union is as a member of lodge 7.But i go to meetings when i can. I vote.I give my input on things i would like to see negotiated in OUR contract. Officers need to do more than complain to each other if they want to effect change. Get involved! Any orginization is only as good or bad as it's membership allows it to be. Right now we need a strong voice that could be FOP if we all get involved.
11/13/2007 09:45:00 AM
IT'S THOSE TWO NITWITS WHO GOT KICKED OUT OF THE UNION DUE TO THEIR FAILED POWER PLAY. They think everyone is stupid and don't realize it's them
11/13/2007 12:39:00 AM
Why do the Firemen have a union and the police don't?
Not a cop.
Anonymous said...
GET THE TEAMSTERS IN!!!!!!
11/13/2007 10:14:00 AM
Why would we want the Chicago Crime Syndicate to represent Law Enforcement? You're kidding right?
Thats the problem with FOP, they were in the district a few days ago and they said they didnt want to make waves to show the city they are working in good faith to come into an agreement toward a new contract.
I was taught by my father when someone pushes you, you push right back. Well Im tired of being pushed around by this city and department. I say its time we start pushing back. There has to be ways to make life miserable for the mayor and department without officially calling it a work slowdown.I think FOP better start listening to its memebers.
There are some excellant ASAs out there. There truly are. However, even the best ASA does not have the experience or competence to conduct an investigation from start to finish. The detective division has its share of fucktards. This is true. But only the best detectives are the primaries on police shootings. They know how to spot a liar, how to get a reluctant witness to cooperate, how to get a statement from an asshole, etc. On every investigation, ASAs are brought in after the fact, after the investigation has been conducted, to make decisions on said investigations. Granted, often times they come up with requests for additional items to help bolster the case. But they are not seasoned at investigating a matter at step one.
It should also be known that not every person at OPS has an anti-police agenda and a small intellect to go with it. It just so happens that OPS does have such personnel and that makes them dangerous. Again, they don't have the experience to conduct investigations into such incidents.
When the dicks finish up on a police shooting, the CCSAO does their own interviews with every relevant party involved and the process works just fine.
Bottom line: if you are involved in a police shooting, get FOP counsel immediately and only answer supervisors' questions if directly ordered. A good supervisor knows this and will not hold it against you.
Be safe out there.
Just learned of a local media report that ROBERT C. WHITE, the chief of the Louisville Metro Police Dept. is considered a candidate for CPD's top cop.
Chief White, a black man, began his police career with the Metropolitan P.D., Washington, D.C., where he was former CPD Charles H. Ramsay's deputy.
Did Ramsay teach his deputy "the Chicago Way"? Could he be Daley's "stealth" candidate via Ramsay--an "outsider", yet fully indoctrinated in Chicago's corrupt politics.
On the other hand, is White about to become an clueless puppet victim, oblivious of the CPD clusterfuck.
Does the LMPD have a Kentucky FOP lodge?
There's one thing, and only one thing, that I would like to say about this:
HIBBITY DIBBITY
{{{CPD}}}
I WAS AT THAT CLOSED DOOR MEETING.. AND THATS NOT WHAT WAS SAID !!!!!!!!
All that was mentioned was what in the article about OPS being the spokesperson for the department.
Second, WHo in HGS is talking out of turn??
What day Did E.K. from 025 come up to A/5 to answer questions regarding flexile spending ???
GET THE TEAMSTERS IN!!!!!!
11/13/2007 10:14:00 AM
Oh, right! Just what you all need, organized crime running your union. Dummy.
If patrolmen dont like detectives, whay the fuck are the promotional tests full?
Welcome to America!
11/13/2007 12:22:00 PM
And did they have an interpreter, or did someone actually learn English since this happened?
Check the following Web sites regarding the Louisville Metro Police Dept. and Chief Robert C. White:
Louisville Metro Police Department
www.lmpd.com
River City Fraternal Order of Police Lodge 614 (LMPD FOP Lodge)
www.rcfop614.com
VERY IMPORTANT ADVICE:
If you are in a police shooting, tell the ASA you want to exercise your 5th Amendment rights because the ASA must then order you to speak. Be sure you have witnesses to this exchange.
I also recommend that any police officer involved in a shooting immediately request a transport to the hospital due to exhaustion, duress, difficulty breathing, heart palpatations, backache, etc...unless you are drunk or high. This will give you some time to collect yourself before you say anything. This also gives your attorney time to respond.
If you have any reason to question the legality of your shooting, you ABSOLUTELY must not say anything to anyone including the detectives. There are a host of murder and firearm discharge charges that could apply in any shooting.
State law supports police officers involved in on-duty shootings; police department rules and regulations do not. Once you have shot the bad guy you must instantly recognize that there is a strong likelihood that you will be criminally charged. If you have not given a statement, there is almost no chance that you will be convicted.
You, the on-duty police officer, will be treated no different than anyone else who has shot someone. You absolutely cannot be involved in these incidents and you must do everything you can to avoid firing your weapon in any situation. You SHOULD NOT pursue armed offenders or enter areas where armed offenders are alleged to be hiding.
YOUR JOB IS TO REPORT, NOT TO INTERVENE!
Within two years, you will see an on-duty officer indicted for an on-duty shooting. Within five years, this officer will be in a Illinois state correctional facility. If you do not want to be this officer, you will heed this advice.
I will say it one more time: FUCK THE PROTECTION OF LIFE POLICY IF IT DOES NOT PERTAIN TO YOURSELF, YOUR PARTNER OR ANOTHER POLICE OFFICER. Let them kill each other. We will be more than happy to show up at a homicide scene of some mutt, knowing all police personnel are safe and sound and the bad guy got away...
Be careful everyone!!!
11/13/2007 03:50:00 PM
Amen brother!!! Have been involved in two shootings in my career and can honestly say thank you to the detective division. They truely do send out the best most qualified detectives to those scenes.
A citizen says, that's not fair to say "let these lying assh-- kill each other." I'm not a lying ass-- and these lying ass- lie on productive members in their communities such as myself too. Some of your so-called colleagues are involved with these liars and Jerome Finnigan is the proof. Those crooks and the lying ass- all need to go to jail together and maybe the "real" police and me won't be harrassed so much.
If you police are only going to protect yourself and your family, fine. But the next time a skank bit-- threatens to put one of you on your unemployment, don't try to beat me to death and tell me to protect you and beat her or have sex to hoodlums, maybe the same ones Finnigan tried to hire. Get the rest of the Finnigans locked up and as for Rev, you need a degree to be a minister and a lot of these people do not have a degree, can't get a job so they get CALLED to the ministry. As far as they go, Im deaf and can't speak when they talk.
One more thing about the lying assh-, your media seem to be some lying assh- also. If you know anything about the media, its plain to see that they edit the stories to read as they want them and convict whoever they want in the public arena. Maybe you should sue them, think of something, then sue. enough lawsuits and boycotts of their "rags" should straighten those crooks out too. from a citizen
Off duty copper in trouble in suburbs after car accident. I think he's cpd.....more news to come.
11/13/2007 10:31:00 AM said:
We do have a few tips in the mean time.
1.If you are ordered to give a To-From make sure your disclaimer's ( in FOP book) the first paragraph and go over it with the Dets and FOP before turning it in.
2. If OPS, IAD or a ASA wants a FORMAL oral or handwritten statement SECURE LEGAL COUNSEL before you do or say anything. This is your right and FOP has to provide the laywer for you.
3. (Most Important)If you are EVER read your Criminal Rights on duty, off duty, in passing or what they may say is just a "formality" NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER say anything PERIOD. Ask for a laywer and SHUT UP, nobody who reads you criminal rights is there to help you.
Hope this helps alittle. A4 Grunt
----------------------------------
Sound advice! Follow this no matter what changes come.
Know that any statement made by you pursuant to a direct order from a supervisor is compelled and, therefore, not admissible against you in any subsequent civil or criminal trial. However, if you fail to provide a statement when ordered to do so, you can face disciplinary action including separation.
All this information is difficult to consider and process, especially in the aftermath of a traumatic incident such as a police-involved shooting. Don't try - just follow the 3 steps posted above.
God bless and stay safe.
Hey 11/03/07 3:03pm:
Anonymous said...
I know people make off hand comments about not doing proactive police work, but in all seriousness DO NOT DO ANY proactive police work.
Agree and I remember ADS KIRBY telling us all during a class that What is a RED FLAG for IAD Investigations:
ON VIEW ARRESTS
JOHN DOE SEARCH WARRANTS
CONSENT TO SEARCHES
LOST AND FOUND / GUN RECOVERIES
These were just some of the highlights of her presentation to the NEW Sgts. classes telling us all what IAD looks for on "bad officers"
FYI
Read todays nydailynews.com front story. Kid calls to kill police and mom. 911 transcript on page also. He is armed with only a hairbrush and knife. Gets shot 20 times. Commissioner Kelly out in front of the story today saying it was justified. Would that happen here?
Anonymous said...
A QUIZ FOR THE READERS:
Name two Chicago Police Officers (Outside of LaTanya Haggerty) that have been fired for on-duty shooting incidents in the past fifteen years. You can't do it.
So............
HERE'S A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION:
Is your union really complacent and worthless OR are the union haters on this blog just a bunch of cry babies that (for obvious reasons, i.e. spelling, grammar, IQ, etc.) have never done any real policing and are real dummm?
11/13/2007 01:43:00 PM
-----------------
FOLLOW UP ANSWER:
Nominations for FOP office take place at the December meeting, election is in March. Mudsling anonymously on the blog. The same goofs as before are trying to tear it down so they can pretend to be the heroes to make it all better. It's the same type of dirty tricks that an "It's Our Union" guy did last time., but he did it on his own anonymous blog. Everyone has forgot the web address, so he and his friends do it here now. They do the same type of post 6 to 8 minutes apart (they can't even wait a few hours to make it look like it's more than one guy). Do it all anonymously and then blow smoke up your ass. You were too smart to fall for it before, don't fall for it now.
How many remember in the not so distant past when Cininati followed the NCNC policy. It stands for No Contact, No complaints. The background for it is very similar to what we are going through now. The activists including Al Sharpton continued the pressure on the police to the point where they began backing off. Guess what happened? Violent crime skyrocketed. Here is a very brief but informative article about the cause and effects:
http://papillonsartpalace.com/when.htm
I as a Sgt will make sure that I do my best to not allow OPS or the ASA's office to tread through any of my crime scenes....they are NOT law enforcement and have NO purpose to be inside a crime scene whatsoever...The Detectives and police officers run the show and let them try to tell me that they need to come in or must come in...no way...
I was told years ago by a very prominent defense attorney, that they (CPD), can order you to answer questions, but they can't order you HOW to answer them. An Invocation of your Fifth Amendment Rights still can be construed in a court of law as having complied with the directive given you by a superior officer
Seems as if there is much confusion regarding shootings, given the information supplied by some Dets. and other statements made in the media by the new OPS person and the ASA's office and rightfully so. Hopefully FOP will take a leadership position and post some information. In the mean time if I were involved in a shooting I would refuse to give any statement to or in the presence of an ASA. ASA's don't care a hill of beans about your administrative rights, nor will they take action based upon any administrative proceedings. They are there for one reason only, to pursue CRIMINAL charges against the offender(s) or you. I would comply with departmental orders and procedures and ask that an ASA be removed from roundtables etc., when I as a witness officer or involved officer is the process of making a statement. As far as offender charging and my role in the situation I would give my information to the Det and let him tell the ASA what I said. This doesn't violate any G.O.'s or contractual provisions and is a good contingency until the department or cityhall or the new OPS tells us what the new procedures are and finally FOP gets involved.
When it comes to local politicians, most people are so fucking stupid.
If Daley wants to raise taxes by "X" million dollars, does anyone realize that his initial request will be for "2X".
Then when his "rubber stamp" City Council approves of ONLY "X" millions, people think they have won a victory.
Think about this. If the "average" or median Chicago voter is stupid, half of them are even more stupid.
Most people are damn fools.
Does anyone know if Seiser has approved the taxes that City Hall has just approved? How long does Seiser have to approve or Veto said taxes?
To the idiot that keeps calling for teamsters, teamsters represents truckers, F.O.P. are law enforcement.
Would you let a dumb trucker represent you?
Yes that's right, because of 7 idiots from SOS the whole CPD will be run by the FBI...asshat!!!
Anonymous said...
I was told years ago by a very prominent defense attorney, that they (CPD), can order you to answer questions, but they can't order you HOW to answer them. An Invocation of your Fifth Amendment Rights still can be construed in a court of law as having complied with the directive given you by a superior officer
11/13/2007 08:45:00 PM.......Hope your prominent attorney helps you find a new job after they fire you.The only time you should ever fall back on your 5th is if losing the job is the least of your problems.
Very insightful Mark. By the way, dumb has a "b".
11/13/2007 04:28:00 PM
Holy shit, retard. You just proved my point. You sure are dummm. So dummm I can hardly stand it.
With Sympathy,
Someone not named Mark
"To the idiot that keeps calling for teamsters, teamsters represents truckers, F.O.P. are law enforcement.
Would you let a dumb trucker represent you?
11/13/2007 09:41:00 PM"
Ah Moron, their are several PDs whose rank& file is represented by the Teamsters. Considering we're represented by a Fraternal Organization consisting of dummy coppers w/ zero experience in contract negotiations,I'll take my chances w/a proven Union organization. Would you prefer the Knights of Columbus or the Elks represent you in contractual matters??
"The Detectives and police officers run the show and let them try to tell me that they need to come in or must come in...no way...
11/13/2007 08:42:00 PM"
UNTIL THE STREET DEPUTY ARRIVES ON SCENE & TELLS YOU ITS OPS SCENE STEP OFF SARGE. AT WHICH TIME YOU'LL PISS YOUR PANTS,START BLUBBERING & REPLY "SORRY BOSS CAN I GET YOU A CUP OF COFFEE"?
THAT'S THE REALITY SGT. SUCKASS!!
and all the complaining on this site about the fop and you are all gonna vote for the same people....What a bunch of tools
11/13/2007 02:18:00 PM
Sir, you are correct. None of the FOP haters have ever been in a shooting. They don't know how to do police work. They only know how to complain. By any statistical or empirical standard, the FOP is doing one hell of a job. Does anyone ever think that is why Chicago Police are discliplined far less than their counterparts in other large U.S. cities? And as for the select few imbeciles that want the teamsters, please post one CBA they have obtained that pays more and has better benefits than ours. Hint: There are none.
All this commotion regarding the SAO investigating police involved shootings is hot air. The SAO has neither the inclination nor the manpower to assume that function.
Someone on here can post the most idiotic ravings and for some reason they are believed.
I'm surprised SCC fell right in line with the panicky brats that seem to dominate this blog.
Relax children, all will be well.
AN IDIOT SAID:
VERY IMPORTANT ADVICE:
If you are in a police shooting, tell the ASA you want to exercise your 5th Amendment rights because the ASA must then order you to speak. Be sure you have witnesses to this exchange.
I also recommend that any police officer involved in a shooting immediately request a transport to the hospital due to exhaustion, duress, difficulty breathing, heart palpatations, backache, etc...unless you are drunk or high. This will give you some time to collect yourself before you say anything. This also gives your attorney time to respond.
If you have any reason to question the legality of your shooting, you ABSOLUTELY must not say anything to anyone including the detectives. There are a host of murder and firearm discharge charges that could apply in any shooting.
State law supports police officers involved in on-duty shootings; police department rules and regulations do not. Once you have shot the bad guy you must instantly recognize that there is a strong likelihood that you will be criminally charged. If you have not given a statement, there is almost no chance that you will be convicted.
You, the on-duty police officer, will be treated no different than anyone else who has shot someone. You absolutely cannot be involved in these incidents and you must do everything you can to avoid firing your weapon in any situation. You SHOULD NOT pursue armed offenders or enter areas where armed offenders are alleged to be hiding.
YOUR JOB IS TO REPORT, NOT TO INTERVENE!
Within two years, you will see an on-duty officer indicted for an on-duty shooting. Within five years, this officer will be in a Illinois state correctional facility. If you do not want to be this officer, you will heed this advice.
11/13/2007 07:02:00 PM
I SAY:
IF YOU FOLLOW THIS FOOL'S ADVICE, YOU WILL BE FIRED. IT IS WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS THAT I WOULDN'T KNOW WHERE TO START.
P.S. SCC, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT POSTING THIS KIND OF NONSENSE. SCC IS A SMART ENTITY AND KNOWS DAMN WELL THAT TAKING THE 5TH RIGHT OFF THE BAT TO AN ASA IS A RECIPE FOR TROUBLE. SCC ALSO KNOWS FULL WELL THAT AN ASA CAN NEVER ORDER AN OFFICER TO SPEAK. FUN IS FUN, BUT PLEASE DON'T POST THIS KIND OF CRAP. IT MAKES US APPEAR STUPID (CRAZY TOO!) AND SOME OF THE BRIGHTER LIGHTS ON THE JOB MIGHT THINK IT IS SOLID ADVICE. CAREFUL, SOMEONE MIGHT GET HURT.
Does anyone know if Seiser has approved the taxes that City Hall has just approved? How long does Seiser have to approve or Veto said taxes?
-------------------------------
WORD AROUND TOWN IS HE WILL VETO AND THEN PAY OFF THE CITIES DEBT WITH MONEY HE'S GAINED THROUGH HIS MASTERY OF THE STOCKMARKET...IN ONLY ONE 8HR DAY!
IF THIS BLOGGER KNEW BURGE, HE WOULD KNOW HE WAS A COP'S COP. HE TOOK CARE OF HIS PEOPLE. SOME THINGS THAT HE DIS WERE UNORTHADOXED, BUT WHO AMONG US HASN'T FALLEN IN THIS SAME CATEGORY. HE CAUGHT COP KILLERS. PERIOD.
And now they're all free and getting rich from my pocket. Thanks alot jagoff.
Seems as if there is much confusion regarding shootings, given the information supplied by some Dets. and other statements made in the media by the new OPS person and the ASA's office and rightfully so. Hopefully FOP will take a leadership position and post some information. In the mean time if I were involved in a shooting I would refuse to give any statement to or in the presence of an ASA. ASA's don't care a hill of beans about your administrative rights, nor will they take action based upon any administrative proceedings. They are there for one reason only, to pursue CRIMINAL charges against the offender(s) or you. I would comply with departmental orders and procedures and ask that an ASA be removed from roundtables etc., when I as a witness officer or involved officer is the process of making a statement. As far as offender charging and my role in the situation I would give my information to the Det and let him tell the ASA what I said. This doesn't violate any G.O.'s or contractual provisions and is a good contingency until the department or cityhall or the new OPS tells us what the new procedures are and finally FOP gets involved.
---------------------------------
ANY INFORMATION RECEIVED FORCEFULLY
BY YOUR EMPLOYER IS INADMISSIBLE
IN COURT, THE OPS INVESTIGATION AND THE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION WILL BE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS, LEGALLY, A GENERAL ORDER MEANS NOTHING IN A CRIMINAL CASE,OBVIOUSLY.HENCE THE DISCLAIMER,ANY OTHER INVESTIGATION SPEAK WITH YOUR COUNCIL PRIOR TO ANSWERING...LIKE ANY OTHER AMERICAN HAS THE RIGHT TO.
NCNC! NCNC!
Yawn; okay here is my 2 cents (worth about a quarter of a cent due to new taxes). CPD will always have the front seat in regards to criminal investigations period. In instances of police related shootings, the administrative end will shift to ops (whatever they may be called)….ASAs will do just as before….collect reports and panic….problems will arise when the criminal and administrative overlap….unfortunately this will be worked out later (after the fact)….All police related shootings involve a criminal element….CPD will continue to own this, time will dictate that ops & ASA must stay out of the crime scene until processed (no different than the film v digital debate) & cannot interview until Detectives are done (they do not want to be the branch of government that has memorialized the event)…they will be able to point out what they want (if the detectives miss it) in regards to evidence and witnesses. Still a pain in the ass, but only about administrative / city issues…..
Anonymous said...
I know people make off hand comments about not doing proactive police work, but in all seriousness DO NOT DO ANY proactive police work.
Agree and I remember ADS KIRBY telling us all during a class that What is a RED FLAG for IAD Investigations:
ON VIEW ARRESTS
JOHN DOE SEARCH WARRANTS
CONSENT TO SEARCHES
LOST AND FOUND / GUN RECOVERIES
These were just some of the highlights of her presentation to the NEW Sgts. classes telling us all what IAD looks for on "bad officers"
FYI
On view arrests! Isn't there a whole unit thats been created by the department just to do that? So what this bitch is saying is that if I learn the minor laws(traffic,mcc,misd.) well enough to find larger crimes by enforcing those minor laws i'm a bad officer?
I'M DONE
Does the LMPD have a Kentucky FOP lodge?
11/13/2007 06:21:00 PM
-----------------------------
Yes they do. As a matter of fact, the FOP convention was held in Louisville and their chief spoke at the convention.
I THINK SCC SHOULD POST EVERYTHING.
MY REASON IS THAT EVERYONE ON THIS JOB SHOULD NOT BE ON THIS JOB. LIKE IN ANY FAMILY YOU CAN ONLY TAKE CARE OF THE BLACK SHEEP SO MANY TIMES.
RIGHTING REPORTS LIKE YOUR TELLING A FAIRY TALE.
ROBBING DRUG-DEALERS AND THINKING THE DEALERS NOT GOING TO SAY ANYTHING.
NOT COVERING YOUR ASS BY DOING PAPER WORK BECAUSE YOU ARE LAZY.
RUNNING OVER PEOPLE WHILE YOUR DRUNK AND THEN FLASHING YOUR BUTTON THINKING IT WILL ALL GO AWAY.
START READING THE RULES KNOW YOUR RIGHTS. WHEN THE SHIT HITS THE FAN DONT THINK THE FOP IS GOING TO WALK YOU THROUGH AN OFF DUTY INCIDENT. EXPECT TO LOSE YOUR HOUSE AND DONT THINK YOUR WAITRESS WIFE IS GOING TO WAIT FOR YOU OUT OF PRISON.
GO TO SCHOOL PLAN ON RETIRING AT 20 YEARS. GET A SKILL OTHER THAN KNOWING WHAT MODEL GLOCK MAKES. DONT MORTGAGE YOURSELF OUT SO YOUR WIFE CAN HAVE A YUKON.
DO WHAT THE CITY WANTS YOU TO DO CONTACT CARDS,ACCIDENT REPORT, AND KILLING CRIME ON PAPER.
Anonymous said...
Re:
sgt dave kinney said...
I thank the lord I had good detectives who advised me during my two fatal shootings. I hope others get the same in the future.
11/13/2007 01:51:00 AM
You never shot anybody! What the hell are you talking about? Go back to Mickey Mouse Ears and quit posting non-sense! And NO, I don;t want to buy a bullet proof vest off you.
11/13/2007 02:07:00 PM
-------------------------------
Now that is a funny post! And yes, I know Sgt. Dave and can confirm he has no human kills under his belt. But the MICKEY MOUSE EARS, I was laughing so hard.......
You guys crack me up! Cop humor is the best! But I bet there is more fingerprints on the back of those Mickey Mouse Ears than in the whole A.F.I.S. system.
rumorville has it that very soon in the future, when a white shirt gets called to one of you jobs and a number is not raised, that an inspector will be sent to find out why no number was raised or if the sergeant was trying to talk someone out of raising a number. with this in mind, why would you wanna do anuything, wheres FOP on this, wheres FOP on the ne police shooting investigations? were fucked, why do anything at all, dont be your worst enemy.
Why do the Firemen have a union and the police don't?
because we the Police are to fucking stupid to stick together. and yes I'm CPD.
Why would we want the Chicago Crime Syndicate to represent Law Enforcement? You're kidding right?
We have Mayor daley calling the shots here....and the difference is?
Anonymous said...
Does OPS even know when officer's are justified in using deadly force???
11/13/2007 10:34:00 AM
--------
Ya, never.
Anonymous said, F.O.P. are law enforcement.
Would you let a dumb trucker represent you? YES,I have had a police shooting and FOP was useless,They fucked up the paper and A sgt helped to fixed it.Im not a FOP hater, I just hate the FOP.Remember if it is a good shooting,you dont need them.If its a bad shooting they can't and dont help you anyway.SO go drink ur kool-aid and hire the real police officers to help us.Just wait until the next police shooting and let me know how you see on the T.V..Its not FOP,They are eating somewhere on yr dime its The chicago police Dept spokesmen,never a FOP REP, NEVER Why because thier cars break down on the way to help you..They are USELESS,GO TEAMSTERS.
...RIGHTING REPORTS...
Did you type that with a straight face?
OFF TOPIC, I HEAR BOLINGBROOK PD IS TESTING NEXT YEAR. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THEY PAY. IS THERE OVERTIME. HOW ARE THE BOSSES AND GUYS YOU WORK WITH. CAN YOU BE AGGRESSIVE AND LOCKUP PEOPLE AND IMPOUND THEIR CARS. ALSO DO THRY PAY FOR ALL YOUR EQUIPMENT?
11/13/2007 02:33:00 PM
Don't know, but you can kill your wife and get away with it. The teenagers love the cops and marry them. Then, oops, they disappear.
Anonymous said...
know a boss has to order it ... a Sgt cannot, right?
Hello, a Sergeant IS a boss, and CAN give orders... Usually the WC or ADS would give the order to give a one on one statement regarding a shooting.
11/13/2007 05:34:00 PM
The street deputy has the scene.
Anonymous said...
3. (Most Important)If you are EVER read your Criminal Rights on duty, off duty, in passing or what they may say is just a "formality" NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER say anything PERIOD. Ask for a laywer and SHUT UP, nobody who reads you criminal rights is there to help you.
Hope this helps alittle. A4 Grunt
11/13/2007 10:31:00 AM
You got it!!!
Remember, when you are being read your criminal rights, YOU ARE THE SAME AS ANY MICKEY THE MOPE YOU OR WE HAVE EVER ARRESTED, keep in mind how they made the mistake of talking... and how "we" try to get them to talk...
11/13/2007 05:43:00 PM
Ahh, so THAT'S when I get to scream "MAMMA!!!!" before I pretend to have an asmar attack.....
Anonymous said...
A citizen says, that's not fair to say "let these lying assh-- kill each other." I'm not a lying ass-- and these lying ass- lie on productive members in their communities such as myself too. Some of your so-called colleagues are involved with these liars and Jerome Finnigan is the proof. Those crooks and the lying ass- all need to go to jail together and maybe the "real" police and me won't be harrassed so much.
11/13/2007 07:11:00 PM
Stop blogging and start packing. Why live in this cesspool if you don't have to? Oh wait, because a house in englewood costs less than my car. It's a chevy.
Anonymous said...
Read todays nydailynews.com front story. Kid calls to kill police and mom. 911 transcript on page also. He is armed with only a hairbrush and knife. Gets shot 20 times. Commissioner Kelly out in front of the story today saying it was justified. Would that happen here?
11/13/2007 07:53:00 PM
Depends on the narrative. That's why writing is important.
Police shooting in 015 - good guys 1 bad guy DOA. Great work.
NO MATTER WHAT IF SOME PUKE FROM IAD OR OPS WANTS TO HAVE A "FRIENDLY"CHAT WITH YOU;THE ONLY WORDS OUTTA YOUR MOUTH SHOULD BE:"I WILL ONLY SPEAK UPON THE ARRIVAL AND CONSULTATION OF MY LEGAL COUNSEL."SOOO,IN OTHER WORDS THEY CAN GO FUCK FF AND SPIN!!!
The role of detectives in a police involved shooting is not to fabricate a story. Some of you on this thread have "read" way too much into my original post. Our role is to sift through the bullshit of the lying witnesses, find credible witnesses, and help the officer involved articulate his/her reason(s) for using deadly force. Truth be told many cops act accordingly, but cannot properly articulate their actions. A bit of wisdom for all of you: DON'T DENY, JUSTIFY!!!
When you deny certain actions and the evidence does not corroborate these denials that is when bad things happen to good police officers.
Police Officers involved in shootings are not criminals randomly shooting at someone. They are not cold blooded killers on some spree. There are reasons for their actions. And these actions must be justified and properly articulated. A little common sense goes a long way. Unfortunately common sense seems to be non-existent at police shootings. The most glaring example is some dip shit sergeant talking to the involved officer(s) prior to the arrival of the detectives, filling their heads with all kinds of nonsense. Many of the supervisors on this job do not have the experience or the fucking common sense to be givng advice to anyone, let alone some poor copper involved in a shooting. Most of our "white shirts" have never seen the inside of a courtroom and have no idea of how things play out in court. Their "one-bag" dope arrests they made when they were patrolman do not qualify them to help or guide officers involved in a shooting. The detectives who spend half their life on the witness stand KNOW what is proper and what will stand up in court. Listen to them and no one else.
To 11/13/2007 11:28:00 AM,
Hey you imbecile, since OPS, or whatever their new moniker, is not a part of the CPD they are not bound by the rules and rtegulations of the Department and not subject to a CR or CR investigation. Just like OEMC. You piss for brains try keeping current.
"rumorville has it that very soon in the future, when a white shirt gets called to one of you jobs and a number is not raised, that an inspector will be sent to find out why no number was raised or if the sergeant was trying to talk someone out of raising a number."
----
I doubt it...Inspectors work for Auditing and Internal Control, not IPRA or IAD...
To the idiot that keeps calling for teamsters, teamsters represents truckers, F.O.P. are law enforcement.
Would you let a dumb trucker represent you?
______________________
That's right......we should continue to let only dumb coppers represent us.
Holy shit, retard. You just proved my point. You sure are dummm. So dummm I can hardly stand it.
With Sympathy,
Someone not named Mark
____________________________
OK "someone not named Mark" (wink, wink)......without a kissass like you the FOP would be gone.
7:33 AM, while on agree with you on most points, don't believe your own hype. Not all Det. are Inspector Clossuea. As with every other spot on this job, the detective division is also slipping into the abyss. The days of sending out the best Det. are slowing slipping away because to some "it isn't fair" they don't get to handle a shootin, like they are buying candy or something.
Sir, you are correct. None of the FOP haters have ever been in a shooting. They don't know how to do police work. They only know how to complain. By any statistical or empirical standard, the FOP is doing one hell of a job. Does anyone ever think that is why Chicago Police are discliplined far less than their counterparts in other large U.S. cities? And as for the select few imbeciles that want the teamsters, please post one CBA they have obtained that pays more and has better benefits than ours. Hint: There are none.
_____________________________
All of a sudden this web site is full of FOP toadies........have they assigned some of their lemings to monitor the site?
OH the FUN is about to START.....HA, HA, HA, HA, HA, HA!
To all those who think the original post is "Bullshit" you are living in a cave. I was at that Roll Call and that is what was said to the detectives who handle police shootings. It may not be "written" down, but the sergeants conducting this Roll Call didn't make this shit up. They were genuinely concerned. They got it from somewhere and that's no BULLSHIT. So before you start claiming bullshit shut your uniformed mouth and let those who care about other coppers make known what should be known to them.
I've handled many police shootings and for our sergeants to inform us of an impending change regarding these investigations this information definitely came from higher up.
11/13/2007 04:08:00 PM
*******************
It is bullshit. You said detectives will stand by and do nothing .... and I call BULLSHIT.
I thank you for posting .... BUT YOU ARE WRONG ... OR YOUR SGT. IS WRONG .... OR THE HIGHER UPS ARE WRONG ..
THe Dic will never be removed from a police shooting .... NEVER .... and you should not believe everything you are told .....
Go TEAMSTERS.They never did anything for me either..Just alot of high paying jobs for nothing.
FYI....Upon police becoming involved in a shooting incident, they will now be sequestered from their partners, and held in the Area in separate rooms. They will be escorted to the bathroom, and are treated just slightly better than our usual "cooperating witnesses" They can not be spoken to until the necessary personnell have cuncucted their interviews. (OPS) now goes to the scene to conduct their investigation....
I am afraid soon that they will be placed in our interview rooms with cameras on them for the duration.
Be very afraid...
Come on kool-aid drinker,AKA FOP.U guys suck,big time..I will tell u to face.Take that charge card in your pocket,and get ur streach marks around ur lips fixed.Stop supporting those hacks.Name one time they filed a civil rights lawsuit on behalf of one police officer.They dont ,because Daley tells them what to do.Remember we are not the Citys friends,We dont have to agree with them.OR support them.
FOP NEEDS LEADERS! THE PRESENT BUNCH ARE DRINKING, PARTY. VACATION GOING, TAKING OUR MONEY FOR NOTHING! LETS ELECT THE "SEISER TEAM" LETS START A PETITION NOW! DUMP THE ENTIRE FLOP STAFF AND MAYBE THE GREAT SEISER WHO FEARS NO ONE WILL LEAD US ON THE CORRECT PATH! FRIEND WENT TO NEW YORK YESTERDAY AND TOLD ME IN DOWNTOWN MANHATTEN POLICE ON EVERY CORNER GUESS NEW YORK MAKES SURE STAFFING IS JOB #1! HERE WE ARE SO SHORT EVERYWHERE THANKS TO THE CRIMINALS HEADED UP BY DALEY INC! ON ANOTHER NOTE WHY DOES DALEYS SECRETARY HAVE A POLICE DRIVER? MORE WASTE RIGHT RICHIE!
FOR ALL YOU JAGOFFS ON THIS SITE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FOP WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANY OF YOU ATTENDED AN FOP MEETING TO VOICE YOUR CONCERN????? ITS THE SAME FOP MEMBERS WHO ATTEND EVERY MEETING. SO GO FUCK YOURSELF AND UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY ATTEND A FUCKING MEETING THEN STOP COMPLAINING...
Anonymous said...
Go TEAMSTERS.They never did anything for me either..Just alot of high paying jobs for nothing.
11/14/2007 01:30:00 PM
Ya we don't want higher salaries and better benefits. just don't take away our golfing or fishing.
Frat party!!!!
The next FOP meeting is on Tuesday, November 20th at 1900 hours. I think it'd be nice if 500 blue shirts jammed the FOP hall and demanded to know what our Union is doing about the new OPS boondoggle.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. There are two types of shootings in this department, good shootings and GREAT SHOOTINGS. The one in 015 was a GREAT SHOOTING!
FOR ALL YOU JAGOFFS ON THIS SITE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE FOP WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME ANY OF YOU ATTENDED AN FOP MEETING TO VOICE YOUR CONCERN????? ITS THE SAME FOP MEMBERS WHO ATTEND EVERY MEETING. SO GO FUCK YOURSELF AND UNLESS YOU ACTUALLY ATTEND A FUCKING MEETING THEN STOP COMPLAINING...
11/14/2007 07:58:00 PM
AH SID? SWITCH TO DECAF & GO WITH THE 2INCH SHOE LIFTS. WHEN YOU STAND TALLER YOU FEEL BETTER, TRY IT.
Attending an FOP meeting is a complete waste of time. Been there, done that. City Wide slowdown.
THe Dic will never be removed from a police shooting .... NEVER .... and you should not believe everything you are told .....
11/14/2007 01:05:00 PM
Yea, ok there grandpa. In case you haven't noticed this isn't your daddy's Police Department. The Dics will never be removed? Why the fuck makes you think Dics are so special all of a sudden? Not that I dont respect them (I do) but the powers-that-be do not
Clean out your ear wax and rub the crust out of your eyes - shit aint liek it used to be
SAY WHAT YOU WANT ABOUT THE FOP, BUT THE FOP HAS BACKED ME 100% WHEN I GOT JAMMED UP!! THEY ARE PAYING MY LEGAL FEE'S WHEN THE CITY SAID NO! I WAS ONE OF THOSE GUYS WHO THOUGHT THAT THE FOP WOULD NOT STAND BY ME, AND LET ME TELL YOU I WAS WRONG, THEY DID STAND UP FOR ME. I DONT HAVE ANY CLOUT OR ANYTHING ALONG THOSE LINES. I AM A FRIM SUPPORTER OF FOP LODGE 7.
KM
PS THANKS DAN H, GREG B, FRANK D, AND RONNIE
THe Dic will never be removed from a police shooting .... NEVER .... and you should not believe everything you are told .....
11/14/2007 01:05:00 PM
Yea, ok there grandpa. In case you haven't noticed this isn't your daddy's Police Department. The Dics will never be removed? Why the fuck makes you think Dics are so special all of a sudden? Not that I dont respect them (I do) but the powers-that-be do not
Clean out your ear wax and rub the crust out of your eyes - shit aint liek it used to be
SO YOU ARE GONNA ARGUE? ... MY ARGUMENT IS THAT COPS ... BE IT DICS OR PATROLMAN WILL NEVER BE REMOVED FROM INVESTIGATING A CRIME ...BASED ON THE ILL CONSTITUTION ... WHAT'S YOUR MORONIC ARGUEMENT? "EVERYONE HATES US , WAH FUCKIN' WAH ... THEY WILL SCREW US ...WAH FUCKIN' WAH ...." YOU'RE WRONG ... NAIVE ... AND YOU SHOULD LEARN NOT TO BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU HEAR ... NAIVE
just like to comment where the hardest working sgts and bosses work in the city. Definitely the 005th district. pregnant sgts literally parade around the district and when banged for a job, will literally tell the dispatcher to give it to others sgts. when citizens want to talk to a sup, from the captains office, will literally just call from her cell phone and then come back with the appropriate 19p. i wont talk bout the other sgts though cause they can suck a golf ball through a straw
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