New Gun Order
For the first time in recent department history, Chicago cops training at the academy are using the same weapon -- a Glock.
Recruits in the current class were required to purchase a Glock 17 or Glock 19 and use it throughout their 18-month probationary period, department officials said.
From a training standpoint, we suppose it's easier.
From the City's standpoint, who's go the contract on Glocks? Discuss.
From the City's standpoint, who's go the contract on Glocks? Discuss.
Labels: we got nothing
posted by SCC at 11:00 AM
139 Comments:
What weapon are the FBI agents issued? What are they trained on in thier academy?
Coincidence.... I think not.
The early steps in the city's attempt to forge a new breed of police.
A buy-out offer for dinosaur cops may follow.
Logic: new cops earn far less than wheelgun police.
Bad thing.J-Fed at work to standardize everything.
Eases training??doesnt speak highly of the range crews abilities.
PORTLAND, OR – Police officers in Portland, Oregon, are still waiting for an apology from Barack Obama after campaign staffers of his recent rally in Portland, Oregon, setup porta potties directly on top of the Portland Police Memorial, which honors the agency’s 25 fallen police officers.
The Obama rally drew a crowd of over 75,000 people.
Officer Thomas Brennan, who was working overtime at the rally, took a picture of the offending toilets, with the American flag still at half mast because of Police Officers Memorial Day, directly behind them. The local law enforcement memorial service had been held at the site only five days earlier.
Despite a large amount of open areas in the vicinity, the campaign staffers claimed the toilets were placed on the memorial for safety reasons to accommodate wheelchair access.
The Obama campaign has not responded to requests for an apology.
_______________________
Nice huh
The good thing about this is if a couple of cops get in a shit storm shootout and one runs out of ammo then they can use eachothers magazine. Alot of federal agency's go this route. shocker. but they also allow those already on the job to keep the guns they already have. I am all for this as long as they don't make everyone already on switch the gun they have. but realisticly that will never happen because of money issues.
Off topic post about Obama-
Well Obama won the nomination last night and boy is it terrible for the security of Israel. I am a Jew and the first concern we Americans should have is for the security of our greatest and natural ally Israel. Obama is a threat to Israel and the Jewish people who consider Israel their holy land given to them by Yahweh. God forbid if he is elected.
I bet Sig, Smith, Baretta, and Ruger are gonna be pissed.
i wonder why they chose a 9mm instead of a 40?
CH 9 noon news says Obame is Chicago's favorite son. That would make Rev. Wright and Flakey Pflager Chicago's favorite preachers. That would make Ayers and Dorn Chicago's favorite terrorist. That would make Rezko Chicago's favorite felon, absentee fathering Chicago's favorite lifestyle and Michelle Obama Chicago's favorite anti-American. I could go on and on but I'm getting tired. Obama is not a home-spun Chicagoeon and he is not my favorite son. He is an anti-American snuck in by University of Chicago through their Left-Wing Department. If the rest of the Country would come to Illinois and Chicago in particular they would realize what kinky politics really is and run away screaming.
It does makes sense from a training standpoint.
In the early 1980's it was reported that about 70% of all new police hires had no experience with guns of any type. Probably higher % now. So everyone with one gun for training purposes makes some sense.
Also back then you were required to only carry one service revolver. But when you hit the districts, did what you wanted.
Makes it easier for those crack-jack trainers bring the recruits up to State minimum standards.
The idea of multiple gun types was that YOU bought what YOU were comfortable with when YOUR life was on the line.
Also it makes the recruits, who already spend a ton of money equipping to come on the job, spend even more on a piece of equipment they may not want or feel comfortable with.
By going to one gun, what happens to prices? With no competition prices rise.
I can already hear Smith&Wesson, Ruger, Berretta, et al, crying foul and threatening lawsuits. Especially since most will probably not go to other gun makes after probation due to the need to buy new accessories.
Also kinda funny that for over 10 years the department refused to allow the Glock, saying it was unsafe. Now it is required.....hmmmm
Get a few of those 33 round mags that Glock sells. Look real community friendly on your bandolier.
And who made this decision? J-Fed? MT? Who was consulted? Was Legal Affairs consulted?
After the recruits probationary period, can they transition to the Glock 36/37 in .45ACP? Are the holsters compatible?
The Glock is an excellent gun in my opinion.
I do wonder how many "free" pistols were handed out.
why the pussy 9mm? it should be glock22 or glock21. all the talk of m-4's and the academy sticks with 9mm. Probably to save money on the cost of ammunition.
It's not a city contract thing. Fact is they are very good guns that are very inexpensive and easy to maintain. That is why so many other departments issue them. My original Sig 228 cost around $800 w/ night sights. you can pick up a glock for around $550 w/ night sights and 6 mags instead of 3. I hate "the city" too but I don't think this has that angle.
That's retarded! Whatever happened to what feels best in your hand? Personally, I don't like the trigger pull on Glocks, not to mention it's considered one of the most unforgiving weapons in accidental shootings. I wonder how many PPOs that barely squeaked by the shooting to begin with are gonna come out on the street, have their weapon out on one of their first serious jobs and BOOM!!! Oops. My bad.
Why the 9mm? That round is not powerful enough in this day and age Even the FBI has gone up to a .40 in a Glock.
Glock has had production problems in the past couple of years, which led to failures in the field and on the range.
My advice to the PPOs is to get a real caliber of a pistol the instant you can.
Off topic - but did anyone catch this?? -
http://www.southtownstar.com/news/984993,0603copadmit.article
Kept kinda quiet, don't ya think?
FOP will be running it's annual Firearms Safety Days again next week on 10 - 11 June 2008.
Services will run from 0900 to 1700hours both days.
We will have manufacturer certified armorers on-site from S&W, Beretta and Sig Sauer ready to do FREE preventive maintenance inspections on police officers duty pistols.
We will also have a vendor expo area with various weapons on display, including S&W M&P 15 rifles and DS Arms ZM4 rifles.
Come join us next week and take advantage of this free service.
FOP Lodge # 7
It's simple....The FBI uses Glocks and only Glocks and therefore we will too!!!
a single action single Sig would of been awesome.
YGBFSM!
You guys have to buy your own guns? The city doesn't issue them?
What a fucked-up dept!
OFF TOPIC POST FROM 025
Dear brothers and sisters:
What will the city do to Massheimer and Knickrehm. They were the two guys who did the paper on th Abate incident? According to the victim (the bartender) she told the R.O.'s that he was a cop, according to the R.O.'s no she did not.
I work in 025 and both of those guys on 2514 are good, honest and ethical cops. There is no way in hell that they would stick up for a piece of shit like Abate. No fucking way.
I hope that they get a fair shake in this deal and nothing happens to them. I hope Jody doesn't get involved in this matter by throwing those two good P.O.'s under the bus. If they do, I will be very pissed.
6/03/2008 11:21:00 AM
I agree wholeheartedly. I feel that with all the recent nonsense (Abate incident, Jefferson Park and grill, the SOS scandal, etc...), the city will be hard on us cops if we are implicated in something dubious in which we did not do anything wrong. I hope those two guys get a fair shake and the city doesn't screw them. BTW, that Polish bartender is an illegal alien and she should be deported ASAP.
6/03/2008 11:16:00 PM
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Imagine if those two coppers, who did the report, got her to sign the case report refusing medical and to at this time to seek charges, and gave her a VIN. Got LT on scene to sign the case report, maybe nothing would of resulted in this or to this scale.
It would of looked bad on camera, but Abbate might of saved his job. A big IF
I said it months ago! The Duffs are expanding into uniforms and guns.
BAD! I was hoping for a "you qualify with it, you can carry it" not... buy a glock, a glock, and nothing but a glock. What is this, kindergarten? Im a cop... let ME choose MY weapon and show that I can handle it safely via yearly qualification... If I had to buy a glock and I had a problem with it in the field, I'd sue the hell out of the city...
The "G" uses Blocks so naturally he thinks thats what we should carry. I mean, isn't the FBI the worlds expert on firearms? Don't they get into more shootings that all the other L/E agencies combined?
They fucked up already.
J-Fed knows that the .40 S&W caliber Glock is the only way ro go. The NYPD has been trying to get rid of Glock nines in favor of the .40 or .45 caliber. Standard FBI issue is Glock .40 S&W.
The 9mm is a pussy round for stopping power.
They should have authorized the Glock 22, 23 and 27, all forties in descendind size.
Add a Crimson Trace laser to the grip. See www.CrimsonTrace.com
Even Stevie Wonder could score a few bulls-eyes with a calibrated laser and night sights.
Most depts (Milwaukee, LAPD, etc.) and the FBI allow 40 caliber. Why do we get stuck with a gangbangers 9.
"Recruits in the current class were required to purchase a Glock 17 or Glock 19 and use it throughout their 18-month probationary period, department officials said."
Are Chicago officers required to purchase their own firearms? Are the officers issued Dept. firearms after probation?
Somebody gots paid yo.
you can buy a glock anywhere.
the only reason, besides convineance, to buy the d.a.o. weapons at shore or ray o'herron was they had a full inventory.
seems the d.a.o. guns were only popular where reqired by g.o.
that being said, i'm sure the top brass has recieved their comp. glocks.
I don't see anything wrong with the change,unless someone is or has aligned themselves with Glock for a consultant spot. We Chicagoans always view a change like this with suspicion. However,everyone using the same weapon breeds familiarity, and in the case of an emergency that familiarity to be able to use a fellow officer's weapon is significant.
To Phillycop,
We have to purchase our own service weapons and off-duty weapons. You used to have a choice of Ruger,Beretta,S&W or SigSauer. It was never mandated the brand or type. We all had to have a 9mm in primary duty weapon,secondary could be .45.
Those hired prior to Nov 1991 still have revolvers as their primary duty weapons.
We also only qualify annually,which is in itself amazing for a city this large and violent.
phillycop said...
"Recruits in the current class were required to purchase a Glock 17 or Glock 19 and use it throughout their 18-month probationary period, department officials said."
Are Chicago officers required to purchase their own firearms? Are the officers issued Dept. firearms after probation?
6/04/2008 03:06:00 PM
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phillycop: we buy our own weapons, city gives us a star and enough ammo to fill the gun and an extra clip. It is a gift to get ammo from the department to practice, I buy my own, they got federal money so now we get 100 rounds a year to practice, yes that's 100 round a YEAR! It's a joke. Other than that we qualify ONCE a year with 30 rounds fired from a static position at a paper target. Just like they did in 1945.
On the Abbate thing, I just saw something,it was a video and it showed that one guy in the backround yelling to Abbate, "there's a camera" and later on the video, it said she did'nt find out till days later that he was the police!!! I'm trying to think where i saw it, cause it showed stages before the beating...but i def. said she found out later that he was the police!!!!
Hey FOP,
How about Rock River Arms at gun day.
They too are an Illinois manufacturer.
PORTLAND, OR – Police officers in Portland, Oregon, are still waiting for an apology from Barack Obama after campaign staffers of his recent rally in Portland, Oregon, setup porta potties directly on top of the Portland Police Memorial, which honors the agency’s 25 fallen police officers.
_____________________________
This is a discrace, as a black P.O. he better apologize or I will stay home on election day
Lighten Up People!
As of now, you can still by ANY approved pistol on the list,
if you are off of probation.
40's and 45's are still in play.
I have never liked the arguement for identical guns. "If you are in the shit and you run out of ammo you partner can give you a magazine" If we are in a gunfight and you have run through 46 or 25 rounds and we are not tactically running for our lives together and I still have rounds, it's hooray for me and fuck you it's called fire discipline. Sorry, but if you are out, retreat is an option or get on the radio and get more help,
Those hired here after 1992 are issued the Glock 17. Those hired prior to '92 were issued revolvers. Those with the revolver can make the switch to the Glock if they wish. I made the switch about 10 years ago. I like the Glock, but I miss my revolver. Once I made the switch, I'm not permitted to go back.
We can use the Dept.'s Range for practice (Plinking) Monday through Friday. Each day we "Plink", we are GIVEN 120 rounds for our issued weapon to practice with. There is no limit on the amount of days we can plink.
We can carry just about anything we want off duty. We don't qualify with our off duty weapon(s). We can fire them at the Dept.'s Range, but we must supply our own ammo for our off duty gun(s).
Anonymous said...
The good thing about this is if a couple of cops get in a shit storm shootout and one runs out of ammo then they can use eachothers magazine.
Never happened in a boni-fide CPD shooting, never will. Sell that shit to Pappas and his warriors.
RE: the standardized gun - who gives a shit EXCEPT... I felt that the department [once again] put every WORKING PO in harms way by feeding the ScumTimes the skinny on the weapons carried by POs. Were not talking about reply to a court order for GO, SOs, training bulletins. You put every thing out there. How the fuck do you think the convicts developed the Beretta disarming technique a few years back?
Oh, I forgot, most of the people making policy these days either weren't born yet or are not sworn and therefore could care less.
Training? What training? Half the people at the range can't even shoot because they're clout appointees. An in-service is a joke. I went recently for the 3-1/2 hr. course but coldn't shoot because I flipped from my revolver to a P220 and they didn't have any .45 ammo. It's easy training because there isn't much training.
Oh....
We also qualify once a year. That's all Pennsylvania requires of it's Police. If the State told Philadelphia they could qualify it's officers whenevr they want, we'd never see the range. Prior to 1990, (the year the State tightened requirements), many cops here saw the range every 5 years, or so.
Philadelphia has about 6,600 officers. I know you have more than 10,000. Logistically it would be difficult to qualify cops more than once a year.
blue de ville said...
The early steps in the city's attempt to forge a new breed of police.
A buy-out offer for dinosaur cops may follow.
Logic: new cops earn far less than wheelgun police.
6/04/2008 11:19:00 AM
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Oh God I hope so, I be gone if that happens.
I wonder how many PPOs that barely squeaked by the shooting to begin with are gonna come out on the street, have their weapon out on one of their first serious jobs and BOOM!!! Oops. My bad.
6/04/2008 12:46:00 PM
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Yeah, the people we dont need out there backing us up on jobs anyway.
Anonymous said...
Off topic post about Obama-
Well Obama won the nomination last night and boy is it terrible for the security of Israel. I am a Jew and the first concern we Americans should have is for the security of our greatest and natural ally Israel. Obama is a threat to Israel and the Jewish people who consider Israel their holy land given to them by Yahweh. God forbid if he is elected.
6/04/2008 11:59:00 AM
Are you kidding me? The current president had to be pushed to get involved with Middle East turmoil between Israel and the Palestinians. Have you ever seen Obama holding hands with the King of Saudi Arabia,home of fifteen of the nineteen September 11, 2001 hijackers. Wake up! The only reason you said that is because of the man's name. You tell me how did you get your name.
You guys have to buy your own guns? The city doesn't issue them?
What a fucked-up dept!
6/04/2008 01:19:00 PM
Hahaha!! We buy everything and I mean everything. They give us a wooden stick. Even have to buy the canary blue riot helmet now.
i wonder why they chose a 9mm instead of a 40?
6/04/2008 12:14:00 PM
9mm ammo is cheaper than 40 cal. ammo for training and re-qualification purposes.
"Why do we get stuck with a gangbangers 9.
6/04/2008 03:00:00 PM"
Affirmative-action style 'leveling the playing field'?
h h holmes said...
in response to 5:58
it did happen on Lill st the first officer responding ran out
Anonymous said...
The good thing about this is if a couple of cops get in a shit storm shootout and one runs out of ammo then they can use eachothers magazine.
Never happened in a boni-fide CPD shooting, never will. Sell that shit to Pappas and his warriors.
who cares, i gots my gun already...
Back in the 80's I was working with a guy who carried a Colt Python 357 revolver with the ribbed barrel. He had 2 of those reload pouches that carried six loose rounds each on his belt. You popped the snap and they rolled out into your hand.
One day we were talking about ammo and he popped open a pouch to show me his and a Catholic holy card fell out. "Oops," he said, "wrong one."
I said, "Whattya carry the holy card for?"
"Kid," he said, "I look at it this way. If I fire off all the rounds in my gun, and six more reloads, I'm gonna be pretty much fucked, and six more rounds ain't gonna do me as much good as this holy card."
Anonymous said...
Training? What training? Half the people at the range can't even shoot because they're clout appointees. An in-service is a joke. I went recently for the 3-1/2 hr. course but coldn't shoot because I flipped from my revolver to a P220 and they didn't have any .45 ammo. It's easy training because there isn't much training.
6/04/2008 06:01:00 PM
A man in the know!!
did any of you guys hear the city is charging $1.85 for each 911 phone call? Came up at the beat meeting today. From a home line, not sure about a cell phone. Does the city get all $1.85? The citizens were complaining that they can't afford it all the time. Will it lighten the load at O.E.C.? Maybe help stop all the bullshit calls?
Anonymous said...
What weapon are the FBI agents issued? What are they trained on in thier academy?
Coincidence.... I think not.
6/04/2008 11:05:00 AM
Glock 22,23,27 current issue/approved.
Firearms Training Unit(FTU) also has a list of approved backup weapons(BU).
FBI SWAT uses a Sprinfield Inc 1911a1.
Older agents may still have SIG P226,P220 P228s.
The S&W 13 3"/RB days are long gone.
Don't even get me started on their S&W 1076 10mm that lasted as long as a bad fart.
We also get 1800$ a year in Uniform Allowance, and after about the 5th of 6th year we pocket most of that. Stop your complaining and buy a Glock if you want one that bad. If you hit the target with a 9mm it will go down.
IL State Police issues Glock.40 cal. you have choice between model 22 or 21. They issue everything from socks to underwear, including shotgun and AR15. Shoots are quarterly. Off duty and secondary weapons are your choice but you must qualify once a yr with it and supply your own ammo for it
Will J-Fed authorize Thompson SMGs??I know CPD still has a few squirreled away.A M-1928a1 is a mean alley broom.
Just wondering,how many shoot outs in the last 5 years, one on one?
Anonymous said...
Hey 025, watch out for that new caps sgt. from 014, he is a rat, a snitch and a backstabber. he fits in well with the new regime.
6/04/2008 02:02:00 PM
True dat, he shouldn't be trusted.
Speaking of guns and training i am currently doing the dept m4 training class and it is turning out to be a great class. The instuctors are a class act and know the material well,so far a lot fun,sure sucked doing the run to do it though.
Off topic post about Obama-
Well Obama won the nomination last night and boy is it terrible for the security of Israel. I am a Jew and the first concern we Americans should have is for the security of our greatest and natural ally Israel. Obama is a threat to Israel and the Jewish people who consider Israel their holy land given to them by Yahweh. God forbid if he is elected.
6/04/2008 11:59:00 AM
Let's not get carried away with our "greatest and natural ally" bit. They spy on us as much as North Korea and China. I believe that there is no country that influences OUR domestic and foreign affairs as much as Isreal.
Some of you would bitch if they issued plasma rifles, saying that they wanted something bigger.
Do the math and check with the ammo manufacturers:
9mm--18 rounds of 147 gr = 2646 grains
.40--16 rounds of 165 gr = 2640 grains
.45--10 rounds of 230 gr = 2300 grains
.38--6 rounds of 125 gr = 725 grains
The 9mm is definately more controllable than any of the weapons. Check with the "real" SWAT operators and see what they carry.
Stop crying babies!
On the Abbate thing, I just saw something,it was a video and it showed that...
See the ABC 20/20 report.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4862057&page=1
You are right, she didn't make a big deal until after she learned he was the police.
I did a research paper in school. Found out that we were not allowed to buy Glocks "they were unstable and dangerous." The real reason? Glock agreed to supply academy with Glocks for one year for all recruits in the academy, supply Glocks and training for all instructors. Why didn't they do it? Because the bosses each wanted a free gun and Glock would not supply them!!!! Now we are going to use them and recruits have to pay for them.
And why do revolver officers have to get their own training on their own time? How are revolver bosses checking semi autos at roll calls? They aren't!!
The problem isn't the guns, it is training!
ATTENTION: All of you we should have .40 cals, we should have .45's, we should have this, we should have that, GET A LIFE ALREADY.
"The good thing about this is if a couple of cops get in a shit storm shootout and one runs out of ammo then they can use each others magazine."
Absolutely ridiculous if you think about it. Another copper has blown his ammo all over the place and I am going to give him my last chance at survival so he can spray those rounds all over the place???
As that is what passes for tactical thinking on this department, we are so lucky we never had a "Heat" type shootout.
I was at F-Fed's last prayer meeting. At that meeting, he said that he had no problem with us buying our own m-4's. Any idea on when an order will come out with the spec's and rules on registering the m-4's? Or is this just more smoke?
Every other Dept has had Glocks for what about 10+ yrs now. Way to finally catch up. Maybe we can get updated computers and tasers 10 years from now.
"Some of you would bitch if they issued plasma rifles, saying that they wanted something bigger.
Do the math and check with the ammo manufacturers:
9mm--18 rounds of 147 gr = 2646 grains
.40--16 rounds of 165 gr = 2640 grains
.45--10 rounds of 230 gr = 2300 grains
.38--6 rounds of 125 gr = 725 grains"
With this type of 'reasoning', you must be the guy who chooses the light weight hammer and has to strike the nail 10-15 times before it's set, sissy tapping it home, rather than choosing the heavier hammer and taking less than 5 well aimed and delivered blows.
"The 9mm is definately more controllable than any of the weapons."
So's a 22 rimfire.
"Check with the "real" SWAT operators and see what they carry.
Stop crying babies!
6/04/2008 10:15:00 PM"
No, check with people who have been in the hot zone and lived to not talk about it.
"IL State Police issues Glock.40 cal. you have choice between model 22 or 21. They issue everything from socks to underwear, including shotgun and AR15. Shoots are quarterly. Off duty and secondary weapons are your choice but you must qualify once a yr with it and supply your own ammo for it
6/04/2008 08:43:00 PM"
The Stuttering Prick doesn't run the ISP.
""Kid," he said, "I look at it this way. If I fire off all the rounds in my gun, and six more reloads, I'm gonna be pretty much fucked, and six more rounds ain't gonna do me as much good as this holy card."
6/04/2008 08:13:00 PM"
A man who truly understood.
video and it showed that...
See the ABC 20/20 report.
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=4862057&page=1
You are right, she didn't make a big deal until after she learned he was the police.
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99.9% of the time, nothing would have happened, she wouldn't of even went to court.
The early steps in the city's attempt to forge a new breed of police.
A buy-out offer for dinosaur cops may follow.
Logic: new cops earn far less than wheelgun police.
..................
I carry a wheelgun . .
I came on the job in 1990 . . . I have 10 years, 9 months to go . . .
MY PLAN : Stay on the job and FUCK the city out of as much money as possible.
Fuck all you "gun geeks".
You guys have to buy your own guns? The city doesn't issue them?
What a fucked-up dept!
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Hahaha!! We buy everything and I mean everything. They give us a wooden stick. Even have to buy the canary blue riot helmet now.
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The city GIVES YOU $1800.00 a year for uniform, equipment, guns, etc.
WHAT OTHER DEPARTMENT pays that much in the country???
(By the way . . we all pay out car insurance with the extra cash)
WHAAA, WHAAA, WHAAA, typical bitching coppers.
9mm +P loads, particularly in 124-127gr bullets (like the current issued Winchester Ranger 124gr +P), are by no means "pussy" rounds. The older 147gr loads often lack sufficient velocity to expand properly or penetrate deeply enough, but this is much less of an issue with the 124gr +P.
I carry a .45 loaded with bonded 230gr +P, and the difference in energy between that and a 9mm 124 +P isn't as much as people think (460ft/lbs vs ~380ft/lbs). .45s almost always offer reliable expansion, but there's no such thing as "knockdown power" in handguns (barring lunatic rounds like the 500 S&W that hit like a shotgun). 185 and 200 .45 +P loads are hotter than 230, but I prefer the controllability of 230gr (faster follow up shots)
I'm sure that the real reason that the dept is sticking with 9mm is cost, but modern ammunition in 9mm offers good stopping power, low recoil allowing faster follow up shots, high magazine capacities, and light weight. Hell, the current 9mm load hits about 50% harder than 38 Special 129gr +P Federal Hydra Shok, and you don't hear people talking about how marginal revolvers will be in gunfights (of course, if .357 ammo was permitted that'd be another story).
I was at the FBI building and they use springfield 1911 not glocks, they used to but went back to the 1911's
Good to see this inept dept is still carrying on tradition as the only dept to follow Mayberry by at least a decade.
We were the last to get radios in cars. Last to get hand-held radios on officers. Last to get computers in cars. Last to get the asp. Last to get rid of the revolver. Last to get the 9mm. Last to get rid of the 9mm. Last to be the only morons on earth that still purchase typewriter ribbon.
anonymous said...
I was at F-Fed's last prayer meeting. At that meeting, he said that he had no problem with us buying our own m-4's. Any idea on when an order will come out with the spec's and rules on registering the m-4's? Or is this just more smoke?
6/05/2008 12:26:00 AM
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When Daley announces how much he loves the Police Department and announces we will never again have to work with an expired contract. That's when we can buy our own M4's. J-Fed is just the figurehead at the top. He is not really in charge. witness the firing of his handpicked chief of staff by 'da mare and the swift substitution of 'da mares guy instead. Or as Keating calls 'da mare, "The Boss."
anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Off topic post about Obama-
Well Obama won the nomination last night and boy is it terrible for the security of Israel. I am a Jew and the first concern we Americans should have is for the security of our greatest and natural ally Israel. Obama is a threat to Israel and the Jewish people who consider Israel their holy land given to them by Yahweh. God forbid if he is elected.
6/04/2008 11:59:00 AM
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Our greatest and natural ally is the UK. Always was, NOT Israel.
israel has spied on us numerous times over the years. There is an Israeli spy doing life in a Federal prison for delivering secrets to a foreign government (Israel), Jonathan Jay Pollard, former US Naval civilian intelligence analyst. His wife Anne Pollard was also charged but entered into a plea agreement.
In a 60 Minutes interview, Anne Pollard said, "I feel my husband and I did what we were expected to do, and what our moral obligation was as Jews, what our moral obligation was as human beings, and I have no regrets about that"
These were Americans but spying on America for Israel came first.
Israel also attacked a US Navy Ship, the USS Liberty, in 1967 in international waters. The air and sea attacks killed 34 US Navy and Marine Corp servicemen. Israel called is a "mistake" and "accident."
The US also has and likely still does have spies in Israel. Israel is definitely not the "greatest and natural ally" of the US. Friend, yes, but one that needs to be watched carefully.
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lots of misinfo already on this thread....glocks are the most reliable thing out there and the speer gold dot 9mm rounds will stop most beasts if put in the right area.
If you dont like the trigger pull on glocks put 200 roundss through one and u will change ur opinion. I used to be a strictly sig guy until my sig broke and I spent some time shooting a friends glock. Now Im a glock lover
Anonymous said...
i wonder why they chose a 9mm instead of a 40?
6/04/2008 12:14:00 PM
Well you wouldn't really want to hurt the gang banging POS would you?
Anonymous said...
You guys have to buy your own guns? The city doesn't issue them?
What a fucked-up dept!
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Hahaha!! We buy everything and I mean everything. They give us a wooden stick. Even have to buy the canary blue riot helmet now.
FYI: You have to buy the wooden stick now.
ALSO- Since SHORE is NOT a GLOCK DEALER & now all recruits are only carrying GLOCKS- SHORE is out ALOT of buisness !
8888888888888888888888888
They didn't do right by a lot of POs. The quality control wasn't there. They let things get loose. Oh Well
I have never liked the argument for identical guns. "If you are in the shit and you run out of ammo you partner can give you a magazine" If we are in a gunfight and you have run through 46 or 25 rounds and we are not tactically running for our lives together and I still have rounds, it's hooray for me and fuck you it's called fire discipline. Sorry, but if you are out, retreat is an option or get on the radio and get more help,
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Is there a case on record where a cop used up all his ammo and reloaded from a fellow cops spare mags? That just seems like a stretch.
The familiarity thing makes some sense, but in reality, all DAO pistols are pretty much "pull the trigger and it goes bang".
Glocks are relatively cheap and reliable. If you accept the premise that having a standard sidearm is a good idea, it is hard to fault the selection of a Glock. The caliber selected seems a little anemic for no good reason. maybe to accomodate smaller (perhaps female) shooters.
We should do everything like the FBI aftr all they are the best. Arent they?
8:42pm says: If you hit the target with a 9mm it will go down.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tell that to John Knight and his partner, the fucker that killed Knight caught 3 rounds, two center mass and one head shot and he walked into a bond hearing two days later.
9mm sucks, carry a caliber with at least one 4 in it.
That's retarded! Whatever happened to what feels best in your hand?
Yeah, kinda like how an empty bottle of Guinness feels in my hand when I get ready to bounce it off the head of a Protestant at the annual South-side Irish Drunk Fest. I understand, esse.
Look at who gave the quotes in the Trib article and then look at who he works for. Jfed no longer runs this Dept. He is a lap dog to Masters who has been here for about ten minutes and his "hand picked" policy group, who are castoffs from other units with about ten years street experience combined. We are as doomed as doomed could be.
MY PLAN : Stay on the job and FUCK the city out of as much money as possible.
Fuck all you "gun geeks".
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"Gun Geeks" as well as "Police Geeks" in general are only concerned with nonsense issues like this.
SCREW DOING ANYTHING until we get a decent contract!
The reason that Glocks (and the other striker fired weapons) were not approved was purely political and for personal gain.
Years ago, we had ADS Rittenberg. He was the head of the weapons committee. He was also an attorney. He represented a man who was suing Glock over an accidental discharge. He alledged in the lawsuit that it was a dangerous weapon, prone to discharges.
He put the kibosh on Glock for his own personal gain, plain and simple.
What about all of us that purchased glocks when they were approved? Its been almost a year since there has been a 3 day course. How about something scheduled?
Bueller? Bueller?
Check with the "real" SWAT operators and see what they carry.
Stop crying babies!
6/04/2008 10:15:00 PM
Colt 1911a1s of course!!
Here's the order I would like to see: you can purchase any 12-ga. shotgun and carry it on the street. Give me a simple 870 or a Benelli semi-auto if you want to upgrade. Eighteen inch barrel,extended magazine, ghost ring sights and a sling. Allow 00 bck and rifled slugs and I would feel real confident in a street gunfight. You can have the M4 or any of its varients. If it was an M1a sCOUT IN .308, that would be different.
"I carry a .45 loaded with bonded 230gr +P, and the difference in energy between that and a 9mm 124 +P isn't as much as people think (460ft/lbs vs ~380ft/lbs)."
Sure,and I hunt hunt Elephant with a .223 and not a .458 Win mag..NOT!!
You ballistic geniuses kill me.
Off topic - but did anyone catch this?? -
http://www.southtownstar.com/news/984993,0603copadmit.article
Kept kinda quiet, don't ya think?
*********************************
Yea we all caught it-whats your point? You think we want to brag about you jerkoff?
The city GIVES YOU $1800.00 a year for uniform, equipment, guns, etc.
WHAT OTHER DEPARTMENT pays that much in the country???
(By the way . . we all pay out car insurance with the extra cash)
WHAAA, WHAAA, WHAAA, typical bitching coppers.
6/05/2008 01:17:00 AM
You must make a ton of money to think that the extra $1800 is more than enough to cover expenses. A new gun, holster, magazines, mag pouch is going to run you about $800. Cost of living in the city, taxes, etc. kids, wife. Oh yeah, that $1800 is really going to make ends meet.
Norfolk Southern Railroad Police are issued Glock 40 cal. with lasers and M-4's. They qualify twice a year, outdoor range.
Starting salary 59,500 and take home car, 4 on 2 off work schedule.
Rumor has it they will be hiring 5 agents this summer, no academy lateral right over. hmm
Norfolksouthernrailroadpolice.com
The city GIVES YOU $1800.00 a year for uniform, equipment, guns, etc.
WHAT OTHER DEPARTMENT pays that much in the country???
(By the way . . we all pay out car insurance with the extra cash)
WHAAA, WHAAA, WHAAA, typical bitching coppers.
6/05/2008 01:17:00 AM
STFU! Easy there tough guy. Where else does it cost $400,000.00 for a two-three bedroom bungelow with no yard and $250,000.00+ for an average condo??? And a state sales tax of 10.25%?? And how much a recruit pays on average for ALL of his/her gear? Stay off this site TROLL
I love the ridiculous posters always complaining. Many points can be made here. One uniformity in training isn't a bad thing. Glock is a very good pistol and is as affordable if not more so than other pistols. Glock has a very high capacity magazine. They are very easy to maintain, and many departments around the country have all their officers carrying Glocks. And why 9mm? a box of 9mm ammunition it about 2/3 the price of .45cal. Multiply that by how much shooting all the recruits in the academy do in a year and I think you'll figure out why they went to 9mm. And those complaining about trigger pull and "feeling in your hand". That has nothing to do with how well you shoot. Sight alignment and trigger control are much more important. But then again, there always has to be some sort of corruption involved in everything right???
The gun does not put rounds on target. Training puts rounds on target. What is lacking is training. So the new kids have to buy Glocks. Big deal. I had to buy a revolver when I came on and it could only be S&W or Ruger. Nothing else. Then they went to the semi's and opened up the field of manufacturers, but then they limited it to 9mm. That was so they could stock one type of ammo and have enough on hand for training and issue. In the end it all comes down to money. Having to stock different calibers is costly and the department has tons of 9mm on hand. Bottom line is that rounds on target are what matters. If you can't shoot, it's not the gun, it's the shooter. Sight alignment, sight picture, breathe control, trigger control. That is what it takes to put rounds on target. So get off your soapboxes and get to the range and squeeze off a couple of rounds and make sure that you can save you, your partner and the citizens lives if it comes to that.
Lets put it this way, I would rather have an old timer with six rounds who has balls, than a recruit fitted with two thousands rounds. No matter what you carry, if your not proficient, its a moot point.
gee, rumor has it that a exempt got some goodies, also what about his friends who got a very nice free trip from Glock.
After the recruits probationary period, can they transition to the Glock 36/37 in .45ACP? Are the holsters compatible?
**No. This is their only duty weapon.
Are Chicago officers required to purchase their own firearms? Are the officers issued Dept. firearms after probation?
1st question - Yes and 2nd question - No
I want to know the last shooting involving CPD that an officer ran out of ammo and had to grab somebody elses????
Quit living in a Lethal Weapon movie!!!!!!!! The excuse of having to use somebody elses ammo is total BS!!!!!!!!!!
I have been in a shooting unlike 99% of the gun nuts sticking up for glock and J-Frauds bullshit. I emptied my 13rd Sig magazine in the blink of an eye. I didn't switch mags. The shooting was over before I could even think of switching mags.
I'm not proud or bragging about being involved in a shooting. I'm happy to be alive!!!
Sig Sauer 1 Shithead 0
I would never give up my Sig. I rented every weapon CPD had to offer at the old Bell's Guns before I got on the job. The Sig felt the best in my hand. I bought it. Thats called smart!!!!
The peoples republic of Shitcago strikes again!!! Only 10 more years until retirement. It can't come soon enough!!!!
PORTLAND, OR – Police officers in Portland, Oregon, are still waiting for an apology from Barack Obama after campaign staffers of his recent rally in Portland, Oregon, setup porta potties directly on top of the Portland Police Memorial, which honors the agency’s 25 fallen police officers.
_____________________________
This is a discrace, as a black P.O. he better apologize or I will stay home on election day
--------------------------------
Meaning you were(are, if he apologizes) voting for him because he is black.
This is a message to the Jewish poster...get over it. Obama IS going to win the presidential election in November. And you know what? The sun will shine the next day. You'll go to your favorite ATM and still find your money is still there. Jewel and Dominic's will still be open. traffic lights will still work.
If you're employed, you'll most likely remain so the following day. Cool it with the propaganda racism/panic. Obama is more qualified than anyone else running for President today...and tomorrow.
His credentials shine brighter than any that W ever brought to the table. McCain? Not a bad candidate. Fought in a war, captured, abused, eventually freed.
A true patriot. But he won't win in November. The worst enemy Israel has is itself. refusing to talk and come to terms with your enemy is a luxury no one can afford. Palestinians aren't going away. Opressed people have nothing to lose when they plan to spread their pain and suffering to the other side. Israel would do better to have real discussions with Hamas and other Arab groups concerning real peace initiatives, open or confidential, than worry about how a President Obama will affect them.
Has anyone gone down to the BLACKWATER facility in carroll IL for training? The reason I ask is because im looking to get some training and the city doesnt offer squat. $600 3 day course on extreme officer survival looks interesting. Im just looking to get some more info! anyone care to chime in? much appreciated. p.o. who works for a city that cares more about the scum than the backbone of the city (p.o.'s)
TO: 6/04/2008 11:26:00 PM
AKA - MK with a little help from JA
Nobody got any free Glocks, you morons. And the knife and entrenching tool, as well as a pistol were raffled off at the golf outing to benefit the Gold Star Families - as I'm sure you know but obviously forgot to mention....
Talk about your sour grapes....
I want to know what happens when Glock USA gets sued out of existance by our stuttering irish prick of a mayor just because the animal gots kilt.
No Glock company to sell and service us -- So what does our department do then? go back to the old order?
Glock or not, I do not like the trigger on my G22. I like the trigger on a DA/SA P229 with it's short trigger reset. Give me a Sig anyday over the tupperware gun!
Let the animal kills each other. Darwin is alve and well! That will leave all 1000 or so good people in Englewoood to carry on like dignified citizens.
Evangelista and Manfre would be really really pissed at this choice of a screwed up pistol.
My oh my!
6:48, funny you spent a good part of your post complaining about Israel spying on us, and then bring up the USS Liberty.
You are aware of what kind of ship that was, right?
Not in any way defending the attack on that ship, though I'm also not sure of what motivation Israel would have to intentionally attack it and am quite sure of billions of motivations Israsel would have not to intentionally attack it.
Also, funny how you say the U.K. is and always has been our best ally. It is, along with Canada, but historically there was that whole revolution, plus the War of 1812, and the tentative British support of the confederacy in the War of Northern Aggression.
And don't even get me started on how a bunch of interlocking royal bloodlines ended up starting WWI, and the type of progoganda displayed in your post ended up getting us passively involved on Britain's side until German submarines forced us to go active.
End of the day, we are alone in the world and should do what is best for us. Not Israel, not the U.K., not anyone. Just us.
did any of you guys hear the city is charging $1.85 for each 911 phone call? Came up at the beat meeting today. From a home line, not sure about a cell phone. Does the city get all $1.85? The citizens were complaining that they can't afford it all the time. Will it lighten the load at O.E.C.? Maybe help stop all the bullshit calls?
6/04/2008 08:34:00 PM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
the beat cops should be thankful for this, esp. in the ghetto where many 911 calls come from the baby mamma screaming "i wants him out" (meaning the babby daddy or soon to be new baby daddy)
Glock outstnading weapon I call it Tactical Tupperware, it only has 29 parts without magazine easy to mantain and durable as hell 40 cal only way to go. I got my 22 for around 464 w/3 high cap mags
Anonymous said...
The good thing about this is if a couple of cops get in a shit storm shootout and one runs out of ammo then they can use eachothers magazine.
Never happened in a boni-fide CPD shooting, never will. Sell that shit to Pappas and his warriors
you young guys dont realize that the police dept existed before you got on and saved us
Many years ago before many of you geniuses were born like in 1977 the guys from 023 had a mad man who they were trying to shoot before he shot them.
The police were shooting through a cracked open door where the offender was barricaded and shooting back at them
The officers on the scene passed ammo up and down the line ( 38 spl+P) so the shooting officer could reload and fire until the threat was eliminated
this occured near Irving Park & Fremont Street
A want a phased plasma rifle and it better be in the fucking 40 watt range.
Glock or not, I do not like the trigger on my G22. I like the trigger on a DA/SA P229 with it's short trigger reset. Give me a Sig anyday over the tupperware gun!
Let the animal kills each other. Darwin is alve and well! That will leave all 1000 or so good people in Englewoood to carry on like dignified citizens.
6/05/2008 09:06:00 PM
The Glock has a away faster trigger reset than ANY DA/SAgun,thats a fact.Only thing faster is a 1911a1,fact!
9mm sucks, carry a caliber with at least one 4 in it.
6/05/2008 09:11:00 AM
A man in the know!!Too many mall ninja on the job nowdays.45acp doesnt have to expand,its already big.
Would like to know the reasoning behind the universal "GLOCK" pistol for recruits...So, if the menatlity is in case of a shoot out, you and your partner have interchangeable magazines, then why are we still authorized to "upgrade" to a .40 cal or .45 cal after probation??? Defeats the purpose, if I am working with someone with a different caliber?!?!?
Anonymous said...
Lets put it this way, I would rather have an old timer with six rounds who has balls, than a recruit fitted with two thousands rounds. No matter what you carry, if your not proficient, its a moot point.
6/05/2008 03:59:00 PM
ill second that. and i want one of those ray guns
Ummm, I don't think Manfre would be too mad. He carries a Glock 19!
Anonymous said...
gee, rumor has it that a exempt got some goodies, also what about his friends who got a very nice free trip from Glock.
6/05/2008 04:01:00 PM
Gee MK, life must be rough for the guy who get dumped from the FTU and now sits at home with his squad car parked out in front in 016 waiting for a radio job. You want to throw stones, keep it coming........
who works for a city that cares more about the scum than the backbone of the city (p.o.'s)
--------------------------------
and I always thought taxpayers were the backbone of the city.
and I always thought taxpayers were the backbone of the city.
I hope not, most of them don't pay taxes. At least not where I work.
6/04/2008 11:53:00 AM
Where did the article appear so as to forward it to every officer and family member I know. Keep voting Obama nitwits, he is not your friend, irregardless of race. He is extremely liberal which is of no help to the middle class and the police.
why don't you ask the shithead that got shot in 025 a while back this year who got shot in the back of the head with a 9mm, and was treated and released from west sub hospital. if that doesn't tell you how 9mm sucks.
and for you ass clowns that don't know the 9mm wasn't designed to kill it was designed to maim.
stay safe and have a clean weapon.
anonymous said...
6:48, funny you spent a good part of your post complaining about Israel spying on us, and then bring up the USS Liberty.
You are aware of what kind of ship that was, right?
---
Yes, an intelligence gathering ship, marked clearly and in international waters. Ok about the UK stuff, once we got that revolution stuff out of the way and that 1812 thing.
You must be either a Southerner or Civil War buff, few other people know to call it the war of Northern Aggression or the 'recent unpleasantries" as they say in Charleston, SC. We probably keep on eye on the UK and they on us, but you are right, we are mostly alone in the world. W used up much capitol from the world in that Iraq thing. we will have to have cities on fire now for our allies to lend a hand.
As for the topic at hand: Sig Saur P220 .45 w/230 grain +P until something better comes along. I could also accept the Glock but in .45 only.
anonymous said...
Ummm, I don't think Manfre would be too mad. He carries a Glock 19!
6/06/2008 06:47:00 AM
---
During training, yes. he is long since retired and I don't know what if anything he carries on the street.
did any of you guys hear the city is charging $1.85 for each 911 phone call? Came up at the beat meeting today. From a home line, not sure about a cell phone. Does the city get all $1.85? The citizens were complaining that they can't afford it all the time. Will it lighten the load at O.E.C.? Maybe help stop all the bullshit calls?
6/04/2008 08:34:00 PM
---------------
what if you dial from a pay phone? I think there still might be 2 or 3 of them left out there.
*please deposit one dollar and eighty five cents to complete this call, beep...*
BAD!!!!!!!!!! GLOCKS ARE PRETTY NEAT BUT NOT FOR EVERYONE. NOT EVERYONES HANDS ARE THE SAME SIZE. THE GRIP IS NOT COMFORTABLE AT ALL! I'D RATHER USE A REVOLVER.
J-FED, STOP WITH THE UNIFORMITY BULL!!! WHAT'S NEXT? R WE ALL GONNA BE WEARING SUITS PRETTY SOON?
Anonymous said...
A want a phased plasma rifle and it better be in the fucking 40 watt range.
6/06/2008 01:22:00 AM
Banned under City Ordinance.
To 06/04/08 12:44pm. It IS a contract violation! Read section 21.4. It clearly states that the city shall PAY for any first issue. If that recruit class was REQUIRED to only buy the Glock, IT IS A MANDATORY FIRST ISSUE! And that fucking useless FOP once again just says, "we're negotiating it". THERE'S NOTHING TO NEGOTIATE! IT'S A VIOLATION! GRIEVE IT!
I agree that the Glock is a very good weapon. I carried one many years ago in the burbs when they were first being introduced. But, the current order gives a list of approved weapons that the recruits should have been able to CHOOSE from. The city shouldn't be able to clearly violate the contract just to satisfy J-FED!
Point 1 - The Academy already makes recruits pay for their helmets, red-man gear, and just about every other piece of the uniform. All could be construed as "first issue." But first issue only applies to new items, not items required to join the force.
Point 2 - Recruits have always paid for their guns. They used to have a choice, now they don't. Too bad, so sad.
Point 3 - Recruits aren't covered by the contract. So FOP can't do anything for them, even if they tried. They're "at-will" employees, plain and simple.
Point 4 - attempting to blame the FOP for J-Fed's end around is the mark of a fool.
why the pussy 9mm? it should be glock22 or glock21. all the talk of m-4's and the academy sticks with 9mm. Probably to save money on the cost of ammunition.
the County been using Glocks for over 14 yrs. and you are allowed to carry the models 17,19(9mm)model 26 mini 9mm off duty,full size 45 cal. mini 45 model 30 & 36 for off duty fullsize 40cal and sub. compact model 23 which I use as a duty weapon and the mini 40 cal. model 27. I've have 3 Glocks and they are great guns. if you buy a glock ,the model 19 is smaller then the 17 and good to use off duty as well.
the Glock 23(40cal)is the gun to have smaller than a full size but has great stopping power. fuck a 9mm. Cant even stop a dog,let alone a shithead no disrespect to the dog
THe Sheriff's Dept. is allowed to carry 9mm ,40 cal. and 45 Glocks as their duty weapons they too are fazing out Beretta's and other Brands.
and I always thought taxpayers were the backbone of the city.
6/06/2008 08:40:00 AM
What taxpayers you fool, not one taxpayer where I work. How about no police and let the taxpayers so cry about fend for themselves. WE ARE THE BACKBONE, WITHOUT US THE CITY WOULD GO BACK TO THE STONE AGE.
while it's true that recruits are fucked and had to buy the 9mm Glock, what are they gonna do when they require ALL of us to buy them?
I don't want to hear about the uniform allowance bullshit! The contract clearly states that the city shall pay for the first issue of any modification of the uniform! Remember the flashlight fiasco? We purchased our own flashlights and they had to issue us this candelight p.o.s we now have to carry.
Let's see (being conservative) that's approximately $500.00 10,000 officers. But we still don't have a contract, the fucking cars are shit, trampling on our constitutional rights, shit work schedule, ETC...! And we're worried about a plastic fucking gun?! WHATTA JOKE! THANKS FLOP!
I'll be damned if i'm gonna spend a fucking dime to appease J-Fuck! I think it's about time we start taking it to this useless FOP instead of the city. The only reason the city is fucking with us is because this shit lodge allows it!
To:
That's retarded! Whatever happened to what feels best in your hand? Personally, I don't like the trigger pull on Glocks, not to mention it's considered one of the most unforgiving weapons in accidental shootings. I wonder how many PPOs that barely squeaked by the shooting to begin with are gonna come out on the street, have their weapon out on one of their first serious jobs and BOOM!!! Oops. My bad.
Your an idiot and you shouldn't even be allowed to use a computer let alone know anything about the trigger pull on a Glock. Please retire so we get rid of this old thinking. Just retire and be a bank guard.
L State Police issues Glock.40 cal. you have choice between model 22 or 21. They issue everything from socks to underwear, including shotgun and AR15. Shoots are quarterly. Off duty and secondary weapons are your choice but you must qualify once a yr with it and supply your own ammo for it
6/04/2008 08:43:00 PM
Moron we get a clothing allowance check for 1800 a year. The state police gets nothing. Stop bitching, stop buying purses and bras and pay for equipment since your fat ass isn't buying uniforms.
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