Screw the New Hires
The lavish pensions that City Hall has been known for may become a thing of the past for new city employees.
Newly hired employees would shift to the 401(k) plans favored by private industry -- instead of the "defined benefits" enjoyed by their older co-workers -- under a plan being pushed by the head of Mayor Daley's pension reform commission.
Sources said the two-tiered pension system is the painful solution favored by Chicago's former chief financial officer Dana Levenson.
This could also be part of the push being felt around town regarding buyout rumors and early retirement packages. The more new people they can push into 401(k) plans and the more retirees they can lock into lower pension payouts, the better.
We'll admit to being in the dark for a lot of this bean counting. Someone will really have to explain the entire thing to us over the course of implementation. We do know that chronic mismanagement and the City failing to meet it's obligations are the primary causes of the troubles. But that is typical of the Machine ever since it's inception - screw the cogs in the Machine as long as the votes get counted. They'll bleed each and every one of us to keep Machine ticking.
We'll admit to being in the dark for a lot of this bean counting. Someone will really have to explain the entire thing to us over the course of implementation. We do know that chronic mismanagement and the City failing to meet it's obligations are the primary causes of the troubles. But that is typical of the Machine ever since it's inception - screw the cogs in the Machine as long as the votes get counted. They'll bleed each and every one of us to keep Machine ticking.
Labels: pension
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
133 Comments:
Why isn't FOP or the pension board sending up red flags or an explanation of how this will effect pre retirees.
How long do you have to be married for your wife to collect half of your pension if you have the the big one??
Their will be NO pension for anyone after 2013. The city knows that their pension liablity is beyond repayment.
How true SCC! Again and again daley shows that if your new on cpd you need to leave and join a progressive dept! Where is flop? They could careless another issue maybe the great Northern could address! If you college leave and do a lateral anywhere else in a hurry! daley is stealing more and more along with the 50 idiot cronies who are nothing more than little sheep heading to slaughter!
Currently, we each participate in a defined benefit plan, whereby a formula is used to calculate a final retirement benefit that is pegged to an algorithm garnered from our years of service, a mean (as in average, not defined as "to be envied") salary and a multiplier.
In addition, we are also allowed to participate in Deferred Compensation, which is covered by 457(b) of the IRS code. At this point in time, the City does not match one penny of any dollars that we choose to contribute. (2008 maximum contribution is $15,500.00 for anyone under 50 years of age.)
Once upon a time, there was a defender of our pensions named Miriam Santos. She was viewed as a threat to the current mayor and was removed in short order.
Currently all 4 of our city's pension plans (Police, Fire, Municipal & Laborers') are not fully funded.
More than likely, we will see one of the two finalist in the RFP for the leasing of Midway Airport pony up somewhere in the neighborhood of 3.1 Billion Dollars, of which 1.6 billion will be used to retire current construction bond financing from Midway.
Of the remaining 1.5 Billion, 500 Million Dollars will be used to shore up some of the outstanding liabilities, of which the Fire Department pension is in the worst shape, at only 44% of liabilities funded.
Subsequent hires will probably move away from Defined Benefit paradigm and into a Defined Contribution model.
If you came on the job by 30, and had a way in which you could afford to put away the max until age 55, you would probably see somewhere around $70K a year at retirement. (Unfortunately, that may be the cost of your real estate taxes at that point.)
One Caveat is that under the current rules for the 401(k) and the 403(b), the retiree cannot begin to make disbursements from the fund until they reach the age of 59.5 years of age.
--
Buyout Rumors
These rumors continue to persist, and are confirmed by budget individuals in several larger city departments that are preparing calculations to statistically identify the likely rates of attrition that will befall respective units.
In closing, get out while you can.
Im most likely just slow(probly how i got this job) but what exactly does this mean for all of us?
AHHH, The shrinking middle class
So I take it that our pension will dwindle down to nothing and the city will go broke; the future retirees, in time, will never see any money?
I hope this is ture,goodluck getting any suckers to take this job ever again. Anyone worth their salt will take a huge pass and opt for a real department or the Feds. The real benefits and pensions out West and on the Feds blow this shithole away. 20 and out and no age,byebye...
And to all the goofs who will tell me to leave I would but I wasted my career here already. If I was a young man/woman I would run like hell away from Chicago and never look back.
Where the HELL is FOP??? If this passes the next step will be to take active members pensions away or reduce them in the name of an unforeseen crisis.
Anyone on the job that doesn't tell newcomers the truth is a traitor to the Blue.
CPD officer catches offenders, who do drive-by near movie set...
The CPD movie detail, informed the officer who apprehended the shooters that he can no longer work the movie detail. The supervisors were upset that they were not informed of the incident, even though the officer informed his immediate supervisor.
Mayor and Superintendent these are some of the reasons morale is on the decline in the police department. Officer goes out and does good police work and you punish him for it, way to go.
Good job to all the officers involved.
off topic: i was looking at crime stats for NYPD and I noticed that they too are above last years homicide total. http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf
they have 221 homicides in 2008 thus far compared to 212 in 2007 at the same time last year
If the city thinks they are having a tough time getting quality applicants for becoming a police officer, wait until they take the biggest perk away. No one and I mean NO ONE will want to be a chicago police officer anymore. I know that having a pension was a huge factor in taking this job.
I'm a civilian, and we had 401(k) retirement plans where I used to work. I don't understand all of the advantages and disadvantages, but at least we never worried about it being underfunded: A third party (e.g. Fidelity) holds the money. They can lose it in stupid investments, but my employer no longer has any control over my money.
Man, this would have to be the worst time ever to come on this police department.
The general feeling is that even if you're doing your job and have good intentions, but make a mistake you will absolutely be hung out to dry.
You can not make a single mistake out there without getting sued and possibly fired.
We have a few seconds under extremely stressful and emotional conditions to make a decision that people will scrutinize for years.
It just sucks.
If city hall wants to eliminate the pension system then why don't they lead by example and eliminate the mayors and aldermans pension first.
Slightly off topic, but see Baltimore's efforts at police recruiting. Well Done.
http://www.baltimorepolice.org:80/join-the-team/media-center/cop-for-a-day
Do you think retired aldermen will settle for the same deal? They probably get health care and other perks for free when they leave office in addition to a "LUSH" pension.
The FOP should NEVER give into this plan of the City.
To all the younger officers on the job, here is some advice: Get into deferred compensation and contribute as much as possible. It's very evident that the City wants to escape their pension obligations if possible. Prepare yourself for the worst.
This mayor would sooner spend money on an Olympic dream rather than on the hard working cops and their families.
I mentioned this over a year ago on the blog. Other cities and states have gone to this.
retirees= no problem as I ( and they) will be dead before money runs out
old timers= over 20 years on the job will probably be ok.
under 20= problematic
under 10= probably would have been better with a 401 k
old retired guy
Who the hell would take this job.You work nights,weekends and holidays away from family and friends for WHAT! At least we knew we would be rewarded with a pension when we were done. Throw in lawsuits, getting fired for B.S. and the beating EVERYDAY from the Media you would have to be NUTS to take this job!!! ISP or a suburban department would be the only way to go!
Now that is a conservative move. I know you like to fuck Democrats but prove to me this is'nt a republican action. They learned this from wealthy corporations.
Now they want to fuck the workers.
401 K
What the City isn't telling you is that with a 401K plan is that the City controls ALL of the money. Where it gets invested, who gets loans from the plan, everything. The Mayors relatives must be wetting their pants waiting for this windfall. Real estate investments for the cousins? Loans to the City? They must be laughing their asses off. Go here for a preview of what's coming - http://www.smarterinvestor.com/uploads/10_warning_signs_that_your_401.pdf
With out our pension, what will Daley's newphews pilfer???
Anonymous said...
Anyone on the job that doesn't tell newcomers the truth is a traitor to the Blue.
6/22/2008 01:13:00 AM
Anyone that tells new hires to run away is a traitor to their own pension.
I don't understand all of the advantages and disadvantages, but at least we never worried about it being underfunded: A third party (e.g. Fidelity) holds the money.
----
You are correct-- you don't understand. ANY mopney can be lost. Ask the ex-employees of Enron.
OK, lets say they make the switch. What funds those of us who aren't going to have a 401k. Our pension system was funded by those who come behind you---they are working while you are retired and continued by those that follow them.
Divide and Conquer! It's the process known as UNION BUSTING! 2 separate adgenda's for 2 CPD'S.When we are so busy fighting with each other,we forget who the real enemy is.
Keep voting democratic. This city is a model of why not to elect a one party rule.
We are dealing with a bigger crisis than that of the 20's and 30's Great Depression. People are borrowing on credit, home prices are falling the american dollar is at its weakest, Fuel prices up, taxes up, and food cost are up.
Most americans will never be able to afford to retire. Now, your pensions and health care cost are going bye-bye. Can you say good bye middle class.
i have said many times before the city was gonna pull this stunt. the city will go bankrupt and we will get the big '' chalupa''. i m gonna take the 5 year buyout and head out west.i maxed out in def. com 8 years ago and have a couple of pennies added up.i can get some security gig out there if i have to. if the numbers add up and you can do it...then leave this job and this city. there is a great big country out there far away from people named daley,jackson,stroger and others.
Hey FU guys and your pension. This City needs every last dollar for the Olympics!
A few of the posters have already said it more or less the same way that I would, but I'll do it one more time.
A pension is a defined benefit, as in you as the pensioner can know exactly what to expect in retirement.
A 401(k) is a defined contribution, as in you know as the contributor know exactly what your total available pool is in retirement, though it changes with the market each day.
You can level any criticism you want at Daley and I'll agree with it. That said, I would support any mayor moving to a 401(k) for new hires. Not changing employment terms for a single existing employee, but changing the offer/contract for new hires.
Here's why:
From your viewpoint (as city employees), you, I and everybody I know realizes that the pensions are underfunded and not likely to ever be brought up to par. Eventually, the last one standing in this game of musical chairs (say in 20 or 30 years), will not have a pension. Additionally, its all fuzzy accounting and estimates anyway, as nobody really knows how long all of you will live, so nobody really knows what the liabilities are on the pension.
These are the same reasons that pensions have been phased out in the great majority of the places where they existed 30 years ago in America.
The trade-off is that there is almost no way that a 401(k) will be as good for the new hires, but it does reduce the general uncertainty faces with underfunded pensions. 401(k)s are limited to $15,500 in contributions per year. Try that for the last 8 years and you get $124,000 total in contributions. Problem is, in the last 8 years the market averages are just about even.
Extrapolate that out to 20 years and you get 325K or so in contributions. Throw in a 5% annual return and hopefully you are somewhere in the 500K area when you start retirement.
So unless you have funds with really good returns (good like well-above-market), your retirement benefits aren't what you'd expect with a pension.
On the other hand, there is less uncertainty (as a poster above noted) as to whether the pension will even be available in 20 years at all.
I'm sure somebody can spell out scenarios quite a bit better than I just did, but that is basically what is happening.
Oh, there is one other thing. Employer matching. Your union's job in negotiating this is to make sure that the city does the maximum matching employer contribution, as this will significantly raise the funds committed to retirees, and this can't be "underfunded" the way pensions are.
A 401 type pension plan has one huge benefit. Daley's greasy relatives (Vanecko) couldn't get there sticky paws on it.
A third party (e.g. Fidelity) holds the money. They can lose it in stupid investments, but my employer no longer has any control over my money.
6/22/2008 01:53:00 AM
Sort of. The employer may only send contributions to the third party once a quarter or twice a year or some such. If they default, that's three months of your def comp that's lost. There's also a risk that they can try to loot money that they've already sent to the fund manager.
That's why, if you leave CPD, roll your def comp into a new 403b or 457 or trad. IRA immediately.
My department (not in Illinois) dropped defined-benefit about a year before I got hired. However, they do match the first 10% of our defined contribution plan dollar for dollar. I guess that's something.
AHHH, The shrinking middle class
Good one! Thanks again big business along with our government who allow those with big money to grow while we lower middle class are only 5 paychecks from zero cash. Go ahead you clowns work another job and keep giving away our money to the middle east who hate the USA. 2 Trillion dollars and counting. Communist China is your landlord. For every one penny we give to any welfare system we give Thousands to this bogus war for oil and the rich company's.
off topic: i was looking at crime stats for NYPD and I noticed that they too are above last years homicide total. http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/crime_statistics/cscity.pdf
they have 221 homicides in 2008 thus far compared to 212 in 2007 at the same time last year
They also have 7 Million people and your point is.
Who the hell would take this job.You work nights,weekends and holidays away from family and friends for WHAT! At least we knew we would be rewarded with a pension when we were done.
Six days before receiving a day off.
Anonymous said...
How long do you have to be married for your wife to collect half of your pension if you have the the big one??
6/22/2008 12:14:00 AM
Spouses are entitled BY IL LAW to 1/2 of your pension from the amount of years married. So, if you have 9 yrs on job, and only been married for 5 of those 9 yrs, your spouse will be awarded 1/2 of those 5 yrs. But, you are entitled to 1/2 of your spouses pension/retirement as well. Anything accumulated during marriage is marital property and will be divided "equitably." That usually means 50/50 but not always; different factors go into that. If things are rocky, start setting patterns a couple years prior to divorce. Don't support your spouse so much financially. Courts base alimony on several factors including preserving the life style your spouse enjoyed while married to you. Don't piss off your spouse, but really tighten that boot strap. And, run your credit report so you'll know what damage has aldready been caused by joint or self spending. Child support/custody/visitation is a whole other ball of wax. Lastly, after divorced, or married, if you ever get invloved in a serious relationship, do it with someone who can support themself, and knows that you have lost some things in the divorce so they don't expect much. Expect nothing and be grateful for everything.
I have 14 yrs, and my wife is a civilian city worker w 4 yrs. It's evern worse for the civilians. But, she gets a take home car, and city pays her gas. We take that monthly savings and put it into an IRA. I keep telling her to go into the private sector, but she likes getting out of work at 430 as opposed to 6 and then having to wait on the train with the crowds. I get out at 3 so cant complain.
You dont just stand there shooting like lakalakalakalakalakalakalakalakalakalaka
lakalakalak........
We need better guns if thats what they sound like.
The clown uncle of Chappel Terrell was on CLTV this am.
Lets clean these guns guys. C'mon lakalakalakalakalakalakalakalakalakalaka
lakalakalakalakalakalakalakalakalakalaka
This "family man" was an upstanding
employee of Waste Management.....
Ironic.....don't ya think?
If Lincoln is on the $5 bill
And Washington is on the $1 bill
Then if Obama wins he will be on the link card!
Anonymous said...
If city hall wants to eliminate the pension system then why don't they lead by example and eliminate the mayors and aldermans pension first.
6/22/2008 04:44:00 AM
And they get full medical paid! Do alderman such as eddie burke pay in his taxes for the servants and free car with free gas insurance etc? the mayor and the 50 clowns stealing everything, carrying guns no permits never qualify maybe they can patrol their fucked up wards! I am so tired of this shit thank God I am in kma club to the younger officers get out now, before it is to late, the property tax cap in over stroger-daley-blago-all the alderidiots+houlihan eliminated that watch the taxes now skyrocket a big thank you to mike madigan who pushed the higher taxes through another irish jagoff!
there's a simple answer to the new hirees, if they don't want a 401K pension, then don't take the job, go elsewhere. As long as it's spelled out in advance. Many people in this country have NO retirement plan at all.
6/22/2008 12:14:00 AM
You have to be married before you retire. That's the only reqirement. If you retire single and they pay you the spousal annuity then get married, she cannot collect.
despite what others think, there will always be people that will take this job. Many would still be greatful to have a steady-paying job with ANY pension. CPD problems could be all but eliminated except for one person, Richard Daley. Give CPD a good, fair contract, with 4 on, 2 off work weeks or 4 10 hr. days, paid medical for retirees at 55, as we don't seem to live that long after retirement anyway, a fair pay increase based upon the soaring costs of taxes, gasoline, groceries, insurance, no health insurance increase, etc. All the City needs to do is treat us fairly, and with some respect. We are not garbagemen or tree trimmers, most of us work everyday in an urban combat-zone, which is not our fault, we didn't make it this way, and it would be 100 times worse without us..
A 401K plan will bite the city in the ass in the long run. Companies that went to a 401Ks from pensions have higher turn over.
Think about it. You have 6 years on the job and are fully vested in your 401k. You have taken the dicks and sgts exam and didn't do well enough to be promoted off the list, and you don't have phone call for a merit promotion. The wife is bitching about the house that you live in and you are facing large private school bills for your two preschool aged kids. You could take your 401K and walk away w/o losing anything.
You could do a lateral transfer to another dept usually at the same pay rate. The City loses on all the money they have spent on your training which is quite alot.
The City will save for the first 5-10 years but after that the turn over costs for recruiting and training will negate any savings.
Anonymous said...
Do you think retired aldermen will settle for the same deal? They probably get health care and other perks for free when they leave office in addition to a "LUSH" pension.
Aldermen and exempts have built a huge cushion for themselves. They pass laws for their benefit. (Mell gun laws). After retirement, exempts have great jobs with a pension, beneifts and car. Blue shirts get the short stick. We need to look at other sources and find jobs after retirement. Gone are the days where retirement meant fishing and walking.
Their will be NO pension for anyone after 2013. The city knows that their pension liablity is beyond repayment.
6/22/2008 12:47:00 AM
Pension payments are guaranteed by a federal law known as ERISA. The law covers 401K plans and pensions like ours along with medical plans, overtime, and a host of other employee issues. The law prevents employers from raiding pension plans or 401K plans and then refusing to pay benefits.
A company like United Airlines can declare bankrupcy. When that happens, the company's pension fund is taken over by a corporation owned by the US government (PBGC). The PBGC will pay out lower benefits to the employees.
A city like Chicago cannot declare bankrupcy because the State of Illinois is ultimately responsible for Chicago's debts and the US government is ultimately responsible for Illinois' debt. Chicago has to pay out on our pension plan no matter what.
Chicago can stop the plan for new hires. They could also stop the plan for any employee with less than 10 years who is not VESTED in the pension. In that case they would have to give those non-vested employees all of their pension contributions back with interest. If you are vested your pension is GUARANTEED.
The good thing about this is that the plan is so underfunded by the city that they couldn't afford to screw the non-vested employees. The other good thing is that the city has raided the pension so often that they can't afford to keep new hires out, otherwise, they won't be able to make their pension obligations.
There is only one thing the city can do. Raise taxes. But that's after years of forgoing their pension contributions or flat out taking money out of the pension fund so they could dump it into Chicago schools.
A lot of good that's done.
Its not just in Chicago. The whole country as a whole afueled by media and dummycrats hate the police. Anarchy is what the hippy liberals love, they love and wish the system (country) would fall apart. We have it hardest beacause we live in a welafre state of illegals and excuse givers, always someone or somethings fault.
You can run to suburbs or differnet cities but this is a chronic problem that only time and the right conservative leader can change.
I by no means am an attorney, however, from what i understand, we would all be grandfathered in. they cannot take away pension benifits that u have when u come on. new hirees are different. CA has a cool pension in that every cop no matter what agency u are on goes into the same pot. Therefore, you can lateral transfer to another agency and not lose any pension seniority.
Sad that the city will do what they want because of lack of involvement by P.O's. Another sad turnout at last FOP meeting. Get involved before we really get screwed worse.
The city cannot start a 2 tier pension unless the FOP agreeds. According to the Illinois constitution, the city os obligated to contribute to our pensions.
However, their is a chicago lobby group called the Illinois Municipal League, located in Springfield. Under the guise of fiscal responsibility, they are quietly building support from various cities and pushing for a Constitutional Convention. At that point, they are going to lobby HARD to change the law so that the city can take the pension off of their budgets.
I called the FOP and they never even heard of the IML, so at this point we're basically defenceless.
The IML has a web site and is pretty easy to find through a Google search.
Having the big one.........
depends on which big one it is,
death or divorce?
From Sunday's Sun-Times:
"City shifts tactics for school violence response"
Basically, as we all know we are to charge into a school with GUNS BLAZING if an innocent occurs (not wait for SWAT).
QUESTION:
WHY THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WE RECEIVE A PENSION PLAN IN THE FIRST PLACE ?????
Who in the hell in the "real world" would be asked to charge into school to save YOUR KIDS under gun-fire if all the employee was making was shit pay with a 401K plan??
May all these thieving corrupt politicians BURN IN HELL.
If a two-tier pension plan does come into effect may God help them, their families including their kids if I am the one responding to their 911 calls for help.
06-22-08 0604am
Suburban departments know your shit even more so. The next step will be cameras in your homes.
FOP can do nothing, the city can change the rules for new hires whenever they want. A new hire is not contractually entitled to a pension.
I am retired federal civilian; retired under the new (1986) FERS as opposed to old CSRS. We get a small pension, SS, and what amounts to a 401K called a Thrift Savings Plan (TSP). I only worked under FERS for 20 years and you wouldn't believe how much $$ I have in my TSP; great thing is: politicians cannot touch it; it is mine; can spend it; leave it to my spouse/children whatever. Even if they take away pension and SS, I still have that money; out of their reach.
Hey! Patty Fitz, were waiting!
"CPD officer catches offenders, who do drive-by near movie set...
The CPD movie detail, informed the officer who apprehended the shooters that he can no longer work the movie detail. The supervisors were upset that they were not informed of the incident, even though the officer informed his immediate supervisor. "
If this is true, get it on the news and embarass the hell out of who is running the detail. Was this the Johnny Depp movie? Get him on camera and ask him what he thinks about that.
To 12:14
The rule previously was ONE YEAR. That has now changed. Each case is to be decided by the Pension Board individually. An example would be an officer dying in an off-duty car accident who was married for less than one year. Should he/she be denied???
Hey, Sarah Shulte, Channel 7 at 5:02p.m. today, calling 2300 E. 85th st. a "gundown" by the Police. Well Sarah, kiss my big ass you bimbo. Objective reporting - Bullshit! You wouldn't know it, if it bit you in your big ass. Move over to Channel 2 with your clone, Susan Carlson.
officers with less than 10years will be put in a 401k plan
glad I have 20 years
mandatory fitness test for new hires and half won't be around in 20years
good luck hair gel police
So what year will this new pension deal be effective? I will reach my 10th year, Jan 2010. Should I leave Nowwwwwwwwwwwwww or should I wait?
Maybe they can use the money they are stealing from our budget mainly by under-staffing? This budget topic should really be its own thread, then maybe the media would notice. Lets see..... 4 Captains spots at 100k + benefits= 500k, 30 Lts.= 3.5 million, 100 Sgts.=10 million, 600 P.O.s= 50 million. (Very Conservative Estimates). Where is that $60+Million Dollars? On its way to Athens I suspect. Crime is through the roof and we are working with a skeleton crew?
Great job by the guys in 004, thanks media for making an ignant bisatch a credible witness.
It's already a done deal.
Check the CPD website and pull up the employment information:
"Paid sick leave" -- getting rid of the 364 days per year.
"Retirement Benefits" --- Usd to say pension....
Look at NYPD's and LAPD's websites. Everything is there for the applicant to see. No hiding behind legaleeze so that they can change things in the middle of the process like they are intending to do....
" After retirement, exempts have great jobs with a pension, beneifts and car. "
Huh? What the heck are you talking about?
I think the CPD is about to become a revolving door.
The talented young officers will leave in droves to greener pastures and the only ones left will be the hacks that are worthless.
The experienced and seasoned veterans will all pull the pin in mass shortly.
The ongoing future of the CPD is bleak at best. If I were a newcomer I would seriously look at all of my options. I would most likely go to the Feds and enjoy my life.
Life is too short and after giving your life to a career,CPD, you shouldn't have to worry about wether or not you are going to have a pension and healthcare that you were promosed when you signed on.
Boys and girls please wakeup and pay attention,you have to get involved if you want to stop this and save what is yours. Nobody else cares and nobody else will fight for you. The liberal haters are laughing and just stoking the flames watching us burnup and turn into ash.
I am sickened by what is going on with the CPD.
Let me hop into my time machine....... I'm 21 again and want to be the police. Chicago is hiring.... Lets see 6 day work week. Must live in the city, which is over priced/over taxed and has about three decent neighborhoods left plus will have to send send kids to private schools. Must take a daiy beating in the press with no one standing up for you. No pension in the works. Administration that is actively looking to make a name for itself by firing and indicting coppers. Clout and Merit out of control. Real tempting,not! Wait till we see the shit that they are gonna have to hire.
I hope they do kill the pension system. Offer us 20 and out like NYC and I'll be long gone. F This Place!
Honestly,
Who in their right mind woudl comeo n the CPD without the guarantee of a pension?
You can go to hundreds of PD's in the Western USA ,the NYPD,etcetra and receive a 20 year and 50% out with no age. The Feds offer a 20 year pension too.
This is the most ignorant idea that I have ever heard of.
I by no means am an attorney, however, from what i understand, we would all be grandfathered in. they cannot take away pension benifits that u have when u come on. new hirees are different. CA has a cool pension in that every cop no matter what agency u are on goes into the same pot. Therefore, you can lateral transfer to another agency and not lose any pension seniority.
6/22/2008 12:08:00 PM
I suggest that you research United Airlines!!! They not only took away retirement benefits from future employees, they also took them away from ALL current employees and even the ones already retired lost everything.....NEVER SAY IT CAN"T HAPPEN!!!
DONT ALDERMAN RECEIVE A PENSION FOR SERVING A COUPLE OF TERMS.
8 YEARS AND THE GET A NICE FAT PENSION. WATS THE DEAL! ARE THEY GIVING IT UP FOR NEW ALDERMEN!!!
WAT ABOUT ALL THE GOVERNMENT WORKERS WITH MULTIPLE PENSIONS. I KNOW THEY DIDNT WORK 30 ODD YEAR TOO EARN THEM EACH. MAYBE THE CITY SHOULD START THEIR ON CUT BACKS.
I BET JFED IS GETTING A NICE CHUNK OF ARE PENSION FOR HIS STINT HERE?
MAY BE 2 PENSION SINCE ITS 2 SALARIES AND HE HAD TOO PUT HIS BEST FRIEND FOREVER DOING HIS JOB.
PART 2
THAT GOLDEN PARACHUTE IS ALSO DRAINING THE PENSION!!!
U KNOW PROMOTING OLD CLOUT HACKS TO CHIEF FOR A FEW YEARS SO THEY CAN SOAK UP THE RICHES WHEN THEY LEAVE.
THE SHOULD JUST GET LT'S PAY AND LEAVE IT AT THAT!
SCC,
Please continue on this thread and post more on this issue. Please link the Times article and everyone of us needs to write int he comments section. We don't have a lavish pension and we don't need the Chicago Sun Times defaming all city workers for the corrupt and inept leaders of this corrupt and out of control city.
Officers get your families involved and have them start writing to the media about our pensions and demanding that what is right is done. We need to organize a labor rally of all city workers at the next Olympic event. The olympics is now more important that city workers pensions or their families welfare.
The retirees need to step up to the plate too,they are capable of doing and saying much more than a current city employee can without fear of political retribution.
Maybe there is an agenda to fire more tenured officers to avoid paying out pension benefits!!!
It is alot cheaper to fill the slot with a new kid and even cheaper to not fill the slot.
it is time for all city workers to UNITE and to organize a mass demonstration at the next Chicago Olympic event or Obama rally.
It will get International press and get our voices out to the world on what the corruption is doing to Chicago.
If we don't collectively take a stand we will not have a good contract and we will lose our pensions.
Has anyone received anything back from the International Olympic Committee?
Where is the FOP at? Why don't they begin organizing a mass protest at the next Chicago Olympic Rally????
Bill Nolan would be out front fighting this and he did organize a demonstration at City Hall. We received a decent contract shortly after that.
Our coppers nowadays just a bunch of ME pussies????
This can not be tolerated any longer.
To: 'My Friends & Family'
With warmer weather upon us, it is imperative that those of you who cook with grills that use the portable propane tanks be aware of this potential new threat.
Meth cooks are using portable propane tanks, emptying the propane and refilling them with anhydrous ammonia, which they need to make meth. After using the tanks, they may exchange them back at these refill stations where they are recycled, and consumers like you and I then get them.
This is very dangerous as anhydrous ammonia is very corrosive and weakens the structure of the tank (which is why they exchange them). It can be very dangerous when mixed with propane and hooked up to our grills, etc.
You should inspect any propane tank for any blue or greenish residue around the valve areas. If it is present, refuse to purchase that one.
I checked this out on Snopes. They verify the facts, but can’t determine the frequency with which it may occure.
Share this with everyone because if they don't use Propane maybe they know someone who does and it might just save a life. Thanks!!!
Extrapolate that out to 20 years and you get 325K or so in contributions. Throw in a 5% annual return and hopefully you are somewhere in the 500K area when you start retirement.
Unless the stock market crashes RIGHT when you wan to retire!
Crimeflie has a nice post on his blog about the RINO John McCain who will not be getting many conservative votes in Novemeber.
I encourage all conservatives to take a look at the Libertarian Presidential candidate Bob Barr,former Republican US Congressman. Bob Barr will be getting my vote in November not Liberal John McCain.
McCain wants to grant amneesty to all ILLEGAL ALIENS,take your guns away,sellout national assets to foreign powers that our hostile to the USA and a whole slew of other insance liberal ideas.
If you put a dog in the corner and keep hitting him,he will eventually bite you.
The CPD dog is about to bite,enough is enough...
I am tired of being put on display in the corner and hit,are you?
WHy is it that there is always time for a ballgame or going out for a drink but never time to vote,attend union meeting or to organize as a cohesive UNITED force to be reckoned with???
Clout or no clout,this affects all of us collectively...
Pension payments are guaranteed by a federal law known as ERISA. The law covers 401K plans and pensions like ours along with medical plans, overtime, and a host of other employee issues. The law prevents employers from raiding pension plans or 401K plans and then refusing to pay benefits.
show me one federal law Daley gave a fvck about!
Obama has the arrogance to change the Presidential seal,take a look:
http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/obama_Presidential_Seal/2008/06/22/106643.html?s=al&promo_code=64B7-1
There is only one thing the city can do. Raise taxes. But that's after years of forgoing their pension contributions or flat out taking money out of the pension fund so they could dump it into Chicago schools.
A lot of good that's done.
6/22/2008 11:43:00 AM
HAHAHAHAHAH
Ya right. I can see it now! "CPD Pension Doomsday Tax"! HA
Obama now says we are no longer a Christian nation,this guy is the Anti-Christ.
SCC,
What is the current estimated value of this site right now?
SCC,
There is a neat pic of Chicago policemen performing a wild stunt on motorcycles on the Tribune website under the look to the look to the past section. 70 years ago we were heroes,70,000 people filled Soldier Field to see 1,000 coppers preform stunts. How things change.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/features/chi080127flashback-photogallery,0,7926824.photogallery
FLASHBACK: 1938 Police officers rehearse for the first annual Chicago Police and Fire Thrill Show, Soldier Field. On July 17, 1938, the safest place in town--at least for the 70,000 spectators--was Soldier Field, where 1,000 police officers and firefighters assembled to demonstrate some of their more death-defying skills. The show was a risky affair of balancing acts on moving motorcycles, aerial fire rescue demonstrations, even a staged gun battle, complete with tear gas and a "very dead-looking bandit" at the end, according to the Tribune. But lest any crooks or firebugs get any ideas, officials made clear that, thanks to overtime, their departments were fully staffed for the day. (Tribune archive photo)
If they attempt to pull the plug on pensions they willnot be albe to fire anyone,there will be nobody to do the job anymore,LMAO...
Only officers hired AFTER this thing goes through would be affected. Once you invest into a pension, its pretty much garanteed and will be backed up federally and by state if problems occur. The City of Chicago has much deeper pockets then they lead people to believe.
JUST ANOTHER WAY THE "MACHINE" IS LOOKING OUT TO FUCK THE WORKING MEN AND WOMEN OF CHICAGO. DALEY CAN NOT GET ENOUGH MONEY WITH THE AUTO INPOUNMENTS, SO NOW HE REACHES INTO THE WORKERS POCKETS.
whatever happened to the idea on the black board of getting river boat gambing in Chicago and then having 20% of the profits (hundreds of millions) each year, go towards the city workers pensions. This is the citys idea of fixing all the wrongs it did to us. Have we all forgotten about the fop lodge 7 forgiving 20 million in pension money as a bargaining tool for a shitty contract back in the day !#$%^
to 6/22 12:13 am: wife gets ONLY half your pension after exactly one year of marital bliss....AND ONLY if you have signed-off with her at the pension board....
SCC,
What is the current estimated value of this site right now?
If you believe blogshares.com, the site is worth $2.6 million based on the amount of traffic generated.
We don't really believe it's worth that much, but we're willing to entertain offers in that range.
officers with less than 10years will be put in a 401k plan
glad I have 20 years
mandatory fitness test for new hires and half won't be around in 20years
good luck hair gel police
6/22/2008 05:18:00 PM
No, it is already in our contract that we will receive a pension. Only NEW officers hired will be put into 401k plans and that has to be done under the new contract. So maybe not even until 2010.
SCC, You should have sold a few months ago when they valued your site at over $6 Mil
Things can get pretty sad. One wekend I worked downtown. I saw a a M/2/30 come into the station. From far away he loked like a yup with banana republic looking atire and proper English... As I approached closer from 20 foot distance, I observed dirty atire and a foul order. I knew the smell like most of us do. The smell of a hype or homeless person. Out of curiosity I asked him how he became homeless. I immediately expected him to say heroin, crack, or possibly alcohol. He told me that he was completely layed off from United 4 weeks ago. I couldn't believe what could happen to a person in 4 weeks.
Federal Law?
Like Meigs Field?
They will do what they want.
A vote for Barr is just like voting for Obama.
Enjoy your turban.
I thought about leaving and going to the FEDS (BP). They have a new pension plan. After 20 years of service, you get 35% if you are in Law Enforcement. You also put money into a Thrift Savings Plan, which works like a 401(k). They match you up to 5% I think and the max you can contirbute is 10%, which would add up to 15% total. I don't think any extra money goes into the pension plan. I am not sure at what age you can get this money and I am not sure of the benefits and downfalls. With the amount of time I already had, plus my age, I though it would be better to stay put and ride it out here. Although, I am no financial wizard.
WHy is it that there is always time for a ballgame or going out for a drink but never time to vote,attend union meeting or to organize as a cohesive UNITED force to be reckoned with???
Because I am fed up and sickened with FOP. If I attended a meeting I would be told I was out of order anyways. Whether you attend or not the FOP will fuck us. The only way to get attention is to stop working and generating revenue even harder than we already have. Do I have to attend a meeting to get a fair contract....MAYBE but it should be a meeting on how to squeese the city to give us a fair contract. Not this good faith ass kissing bullshit that Donawho gives us.
Go to hell FOP!
SCC, You should have sold a few months ago when they valued your site at over $6 Mil
If we knew someone with a spare $6 million, we would have, but Gates and Buffet weren't returning our calls.
Sad that the city will do what they want because of lack of involvement by P.O's. Another sad turnout at last FOP meeting. Get involved before we really get screwed worse
And going to a meeting will matter? Mark Donahue sold us out before he will do it again. Why isnt FOP starting something with the city. Why arent we in an all out war with the city. Why isnt FOP telling us to come to a grinding hault with revenue and arrests. Why isnt FOP dragging the city into court. Sorry but I gave up. I hit the medical 4 times a year no matter what and I refise to do a fuckin thing for this city. Yea Im a dog but I am beating the mayor at his own game fuck him.
To the guy that keeps saying there is Federal Laws to protect our pension, I say your an idiot. Daley ignores federal law. Look at all the health related laws that the Congress passes, ie insurance companies must pay for mamo exams, etc. There is always an out exempting local governments. don't you read the health stuff that the city sends you. Two pages of what the law mandates, with the last line being the city of chicago choses to exempt itself from this provision.
--I couldn't believe what could happen to a person in 4 weeks.--
The thing is, quite a few people are living right on the edge financially. There are people making 6 figures who wouldn't be able to pay next month's bills without a loan if they were suddenly unemployed.
A lot of people aren't seeing the forest for the trees right now. Approximately 20% of mortgaged homes are worth less than the loans on the homes in America right now, and Goldman Sachs and Moodys both estimate that this will be 30% of mortgaged homes by the end of the year. That, right now, is about 10 million of about 50 million homes in this country.
Another 30 million plus are unencumbered, so those 20% and 30% numbers aren't as scary as they first sound, but they are still scary.
For these people, they lose the job and need to sell the home, there is not a single penny to be gained.
Wages for the bottom 95% relative to inflation have not increased in decades, though we also can buy far more for the same money due to globalization. We just can't buy it in Europe or Asia.
What seems to be the biggest factor for the total off-the-cliff scense like you describe is a lack of cohesive family or close friends. Sudden unemployment ever happens to any of the 100 or 200 people closest to me, there would be a dozen offers of temporary room and food.
And don't even get me started on those among us walking around with mental illnesses we don't even know about.
There are a lot of people living that close to the edge, and its a good thing to be aware of.
I called the FOP and they never even heard of the IML, so at this point we're basically defenceless.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Cheerio old chap. Here in the colonies, we spell it "defenseless." What would you limeys know anyway? You pronounce "lieutenant" as "leftenant." Morons, one and all.
WHy is it that there is always time for a ballgame or going out for a drink but never time to vote,attend union meeting or to organize as a cohesive UNITED force to be reckoned with???
6/22/2008 10:02:00 PM
Probably cuz you earn a good living that is disproportionate to the little work you actually do.
Only officers hired AFTER this thing goes through would be affected. Once you invest into a pension, its pretty much garanteed and will be backed up federally and by state if problems occur. The City of Chicago has much deeper pockets then they lead people to believe.
6/22/2008 10:33:00 PM
--------------------
Only if you are vested in the pension.
That doesn't happen until year 10.
The contract might let you sue the city in state court and force the city to provide a pension, but you are not fully covered, no matter what any Cook Co. judge rules or what any Illinois State judge rules, until you are vested. At that point, your pension is protected under federal law.
Pension payments are guaranteed by a federal law known as ERISA. The law covers 401K plans and pensions like ours along with medical plans, overtime, and a host of other employee issues. The law prevents employers from raiding pension plans or 401K plans and then refusing to pay benefits.
show me one federal law Daley gave a fvck about!
6/22/2008 10:06:00 PM
Mail fraud.
Anonymous said...
whatever happened to the idea on the black board of getting river boat gambing in Chicago and then having 20% of the profits (hundreds of millions) each year, go towards the city workers pensions. This is the citys idea of fixing all the wrongs it did to us. Have we all forgotten about the fop lodge 7 forgiving 20 million in pension money as a bargaining tool for a shitty contract back in the day !#$%^
6/22/2008 11:03:00 PM
It's called the bottled water tax... Didn't hear about that?
Obama now says we are no longer a Christian nation,this guy is the Anti-Christ.
----------------------------
I hear Bush is now actively pursuing Osama Bin Laden .... at an Obama family reunion no doubt.
His entire side on his 'father's' side is African Muslim. But the media is warning me not to 'smear' Obama and I'm a little ascared ....
If you put a dog in the corner and keep hitting him,he will eventually bite you.
The CPD dog is about to bite,enough is enough...
I am tired of being put on display in the corner and hit,are you?
-----------------------
....or if he is a supervisory dog with a college education and a phone-call spot he may just tinkle on his leg .....
A city like Chicago cannot declare bankrupcy because the State of Illinois is ultimately responsible for Chicago's debts and the US government is ultimately responsible for Illinois' debt. Chicago has to pay out on our pension plan no matter what.
-----------
I thought I heard about a U.S. city declaring bankruptcy. Are you saying no city can declare bankruptcy because the U.S. would ultimately back the city up, and therefore thwart the bankruptcy? or CAN they declare bankruptcy, but the U.S. (or state) will make good on certain financial obligations (like municipalpensions)?
SCOTUS decision is pushed back to either Thurs or Friday from what I understand ...
Obama now says we are no longer a Christian nation,this guy is the Anti-Christ.
6/22/2008 10:08:00 PM
Curse that pesky US Constitution that makes no mention of us being a Christian nation.
Anybody that comes on the job these days is either nuts or a loser.
To those who don't bother to attend FOP meetings or read the minutes: This has been brought up at FOP meeting several times and the FOP is addressing this issue and is against it.
Isnt there something written into the state constitution that holds our pensions as 'government pensions'? and they have to remain as such (funded by the city) until the constitution of the state of IL is amended?
Basically, as we all know we are to charge into a school with GUNS BLAZING if an innocent occurs (not wait for SWAT).
-------------------
I think I'd wait for SWAT. Thats what theyre here for.
called the FOP and they never even heard of the IML, so at this point we're basically defenceless.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Cheerio old chap. Here in the colonies, we spell it "defenseless." What would you limeys know anyway? You pronounce "lieutenant" as "leftenant." Morons, one and all.
Ok, your a better speller than I am. That said, nothing you wrote is the least bit relevant to my post.
If you disagree with what I wrote, tell us where you think I'm wrong.
Your post attempted to trivialize a subject important to every officer in the CPD with inane prattle.
It's apparent that preserving our pension is not your goal. So, stay off of our blog, you fucking shill.
I thought I heard about a U.S. city declaring bankruptcy. Are you saying no city can declare bankruptcy because the U.S. would ultimately back the city up, and therefore thwart the bankruptcy? or CAN they declare bankruptcy, but the U.S. (or state) will make good on certain financial obligations (like municipalpensions)?
6/23/2008 03:11:00 PM
Vallejo, CA just voted to do it in May. They've been hard hit by the collapse of the housing market, and as far as I know, the economy never really recovered after the nearby Navy base closed in 1996. They claim 80% of their general fund is consumed by police and firefighter costs. Orange County, CA declared bankruptcy in 1994, and Hot Springs,CA did in 2001.
How IL and CA vary in allowing municipalities to declare bankruptcy, I couldn't say.
it is very hard not to fully fund a defined contribution plan. most often they offer the plan participants options in how the funds are invested.
the defined benefits plans the city offers usually have very low rates of return due to the political hacks taking their cut.
people who are in a defined contribution plan may well be far better off then those in a defined benefit plan.
this one may well end up being an unintentional improvement in your pension situation.
Maybe Chicago will become the Detroit of the "Robocop" movies! if the private sector has been moving away from pension plans for awhile, we can't expect to hold on to ours forever. I wish it wasn't true but it looks like it happen one day soon. I started deferred (sp?) compensation when I was with the county and started it right when i began here. If the pension plan bites the big one I hope the city would match 40 cents on the dollar for our contributions to a 457 account.
Anonymous said...
Anybody that comes on the job these days is either nuts or a loser.
6/23/2008 04:44:00 PM
+1!!
Educate yourself about your pension and your future finances. Use the benefits we have before they are gone (i.e. tuition reimburse can be used to finance your education for your next career...if you can relate it to department goals). The only pension rep who voted against Daley's nephew getting millions- was a sergeant-check out the sergeant's association's website and see what he has to offer as far as informtion goes. Check out the lts association,too. Crain's Chicago predicted that if there are not changes to the CPD pension fund it would go belly up on 2034-that's why this move is happening.
Read up one managing your finances, take a class, check out the many financial advice websites that offer info for free- Ben Stein/Phil Demuth-Suze Orman, whoever-even the fed has some educational tools for you too use.
Use your library card for access to a weath of financial books for FREE!
Don't be lazy-your future depends on it.
9:19,your post comments promoting self education are right on the money.However ,the Sgt.website statements regarding his actions on the Pension Board do not ring true.If that was the reasoning for his Trustee vote (April 2006) why didn,t he tell anyone then?Why did it take until a Sept. 2007 Sun-Times story to become public knowledge?
How about all the Lts and Capts who retired with 8000+ hours! They were on every time due slip since Kennedy got assassinated and no one ever checked any of them! Definitely "Theft Over" but who cares! Half million here, half million there, and then a giant retirement party that all the peons have to pay for! What a scam!
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