Pension Disaster Looming
Funds worth trillions of dollars start to plummet in value. Political pressure to be “socially responsible” distorts the market decisions of government-related enterprises, leading to risky investments. Investors who once considered their retirements safely protected wake up to a sinking feeling of uncertainty and gloom.
Sound like the great mortgage-fueled financial crisis of 2008? Sure. But it also describes a calamity likely to hit as soon as 2009. State, local, and private pension plans covering millions of government employees and union workers with “defined benefit” accounts are teetering on the brink of implosion, victims of both a sinking stock market and investment strategies influenced by political considerations.
Labels: pension
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
79 Comments:
i'm in the wrong line of work. this job doesn't pay, crime does.
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/massive-taxpayer-backlash-over-pension.html
SCC, this is Mish Shedlock's site and he just this evening posted a note on this topic. He's a Ron Paul type Austrian-school conservative (like me).
The whole system is a Ponzi scheme, where more and bigger promises are made until the whole system collapses. That is how you get 4.5 GM retirees for ever current GM worker.
According to Mish's numbers, there are municapilities where the bulk of operating expenses are already going to pension obligations.
All this at the same time that Federal, state and local tax revenues are shrinking.
And Chicago unions with their funding ratios below 50%? There is no way that a PO in his 20s will ever be collecting a pension under this system in his 80s. At least, not one funded nearly as well as is being promised today.
Where are George Washington, John Adams, and Ben Franklin when you need them...It's getting time to reprise their roles...
NO MORE BULLSHIT ABOUT HOW GREAT THIS JOB IS WITH ALL THE BENEFITS! WE WON'T EVEN GET A PENSION BECAUSE THE WHOLE SYSTEM WILL GO TO SHIT. I'M TAKING MY MONEY OUT AND PUTTING IT IN A SAFE PLACE BEFORE EVERYTHING IS GONE.
No, do not worry about the pension which probably involves hundreds of thousands of dollars to each officer. Worry about some BS retro for 4,000.
Do not worry about the pension fund being involved in CDOs,CDSs, CMBSs and the like. Worry about some political BS that happened which you cannot control.
I hate to say to say it but most of the officers do not get it.
For the health of our pension, they need to go to a two tier system as soon as possible.
Are they ever going to make a class of new Detectives???? Its been over a year since the last class.
Quit whining, do your job. I work for mayor and city council as long as they retire ok I have done my job.
who cares about the pension ? we need cars, pdt's and m16's. you guys dont know whats important.
THERE WILL BE NO PRIZE AT THE END FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT RETIRING IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS!!! SEMPER FI
Any updates on how Zeke from 8 is doing?
Time will dictate that US Congressman Ron Paul-R was the only viable Presidential candidate in 2008.
I am surprised that the "establishment" has not assassinated him yet.
This entire nation is falling apart at the seems; and those in power are drunk, with the lust of power and riches.
WAKEUP PEOPLE!!!
Time to think outside of the box and turn the boob tube off.
The young guys and girls on the job do not think about the future. They are too blind, being the "real police", to realize that 20+ years flies by in the blink of an eye.
What will you do when you hit retirement age and there is nothing left for you???
Look at the big picture and forget about the stupid stuff.
IE. wearing shorts, wearing stocking hats or black gym shoes, who gets cut 15 minutes early, etcetra.
Focus on what is important:
IE. Wages, Benefits, Retirement, Pension Viability, Fair and Equitable Promotional and Disciplinary System.
All of the rest is unimportant and a distraction.
THERE WILL BE NO PRIZE AT THE END FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT RETIRING IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS!!! SEMPER FI
1/14/2009 08:44:00 AM
STOP WHINING!!! It's your job. You signed up for this shit, so take it like a man and do your job!!!! WORK - Be happy you have a job. If you dont want to work than quit. Great Work ethic
Freedumb is not free!!!
Anonymous said...
who cares about the pension ? we need cars, pdt's and m16's. you guys dont know whats important.
1/14/2009 08:20:00 AM
Fuck you and fuck M16's. The pension is what we work for our whole careers, which for me is nearing the end.
If the pension fund goes bust it is good to know our Mayor wisely has several billion stashed away to pay those obligations. The City of chicago is on the hook to make sure my pension check is there every month.
THERE WILL BE NO MORE USA IN 2014! GET IT IN YOUR HEAD EVEN THE RUSSIANS THINK WE WILL IMPLODE> VIVA MEXICO-JUST WAIT TILL THAT COUNTRY COLLAPSES DUE TO OUT OF CONTROL GANGS AND DRUG LORDS>OUR DOLLAR WILL BECOME WORTHLESS SOON> THERE ARE NO REAL JOBS ANYMORE JUST PAPER SHUFFLERS>SO BE READY BOYS AND GIRLS-SEMPER FI!
Underfunding is a critical issue and all state and municipal employees will be thouroughly fucked. Unions control the politicians for now, but when the shit hits the fan the taxpayers will revolt and your pensions will be slashed. It makes sense to me that police and firefighters get to retire in their 50's but what about teachers and the rest? I live in the west suburbs, where teachers make six figures, retire at 52 at 80% for life, and then go right back to work at the school. Check the school parking lot. It's full of Lexus's. It doesn't help that most public plans in Illinois are corrupt. Check Pensions and Investments magazine. Everytime they boast about some big trade, take note of who they did the trade with. They won't mention the fees they pay or the minority setaside payment to firms that don't do shit for the money. So not only are you guys (state employees) underfunded, you are also being ripped off by your own pension plan.
Anonymous said...
NO MORE BULLSHIT ABOUT HOW GREAT THIS JOB IS WITH ALL THE BENEFITS! WE WON'T EVEN GET A PENSION BECAUSE THE WHOLE SYSTEM WILL GO TO SHIT. I'M TAKING MY MONEY OUT AND PUTTING IT IN A SAFE PLACE BEFORE EVERYTHING IS GONE.
1/14/2009 03:18:00 AM
No offense, but just where can you put your money where it'll be safe? It's not just the city pension funds in trouble, it's the whole monetary system. It is a Ponzi scheme. I'm not rubbing it in, but I've been retired 15 years and have collected more than I made in pay while I was working.
But, not to worry. You'll all get the pensions promised you. In fact, the government will pay everyone every bit of what it owes.
How? Right now, there is a little man working at the Bureau of Engraving designing a billion dollar bill. It will have Obama's face on it. The government owes you a pension? Here take a handful of billions. Keep the change.
...pension disaster looming and the new wonder kid on the pension board wants his parking paid for by our fund...
with all this economic chaos- why no information or news from the pension board?
This pension issue is the BIG time bomb!
The Union should demand that a portion of the red light camera fines should be earmarked for funding the pension.
The city only promised a patrolmans pension, all promoted persons should only receive a patrolmans pension. Save those big buck you are being gifted with because come pension time all you get is what was promised; No more golden parachutes!
THE POLICE PENSION FUND IS DOWN OVER A BILLION DOLLERS ACCORDING TO A TRUSTE IN 2008/WENT UP A LITTLE IN DEC SO HE SAID/ KNOCING THREE YEARS OFF MAX PENSION PAYOUT ALONG WITH THE BRASS HATS SHOULD BREAK THE FUND BY 2015 I WOULD THINK
If They think we are lazy bastards NOW just wait.
Are they ever going to make a class of new Detectives???? Its been over a year since the last class.
1/14/2009 06:56:00 AM
This shows that most of us are idiots. Cannot see the big picture. Didn't they teach you in the academy to not get "tunnel vision"?
All this Thievery, Looting, and other Criminal Acts by Crook County and Shitcago Politicians, and STILL NOBODY in Prison. What a joke Fed Agents are.
No Detectives Class till 2010.
With the posts put up today there should be 10,000+ visits to SCC, and thousands of PO's and Detectives, at the next FOP meeting and Police Pension Board Meeting.
The pension portibility act is sitting on the Gov's desk. This should be signed without delay so Gov. pull out your pen and SIGN IT!!!
1/13/2009 02:01:00 PM
I have made probably 20 to 30 calls to the governors office urging he take a real hard look at this portability plan. With the current shape of the pensions in this state, we need people paying into, not cashing out of the pension system. The amount of money brought in by this plan only benefits the short term and will end up costing the pension millions! I suggest every one call the goverbors Chicago office, as well as Springfield and urge him NOT to sign this selfish bill! I can count nearly 100 individuals who I have spoken to and they feel the same... and each of them is also flooding the Governor... so please call for your future's sake!!! The good of the many far outweighs the good of the few! NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
This is still the tip of the iceberg concerning the economic meltdown.
Wait another 8 months and see how bad things get.
I can get a job anywhere but choose this because of the pension.So to those that say dont worry about it and be happy that you have a job-well get a clue.Why do we pay to support the pension if it will not be there in the end. Thats the mentality that allows for all the corruption in the city.
If Chicago pulls and Orange County,California we will be pensionless:
Employees who participate in a defined benefit pension plan look forward to receiving their accrued benefits at retirement. For city employees, these vested, accrued benefits are a contractual obligation between the city and the worker that can't be denied. Unlike participants in private pension plans, municipal employees have no federal agency, such as the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. (PBGC), that insures or guarantees their pension benefits. There's no one to bail them out.
Unfortunately, many municipalities in America face the consequences of underfunded pension plans, escalating benefit costs, and reduced income on investments. It's a situation that must be addressed immediately, before a crisis ensues.
Read more here:
http://www.contingencies.org/mayjun06/commentary_0506.asp
The PENSION CRISIS IS VERY REAL!
In the nine months to the end of September, the average state and municipal pension fund lost 14.8% of its market value. The loss has deepened as global financial markets fell sharply in October. The loss has more than double previous highest loss for state funds, which registered 7.9% for the full year in 2002. Few market analysts expect equity prices to bottom any time soon, let alone a recovery, and many are resigned to the prospect of years of asset deflation and economic stagnation.
About 40% of these funds are under-funded, meaning that they would not be able to pay the future pensions promised to public employees. State governments have raised pension benefits to keep up with inflation, betting on a growing wealth effect from fund investments to meet higher payments. It was part of the flawed rationale that called for the privatization of social security. Just like the social security trust fund, pension funds are money that belongs to the workers who are required to contribute into them out of their payroll deductions and matched by public funds as part of workers’ employment benefits. These funds are not charity payments from government employers. They are compulsory savings of public sector workers.
Richard Daley, mayor of Chicago, hometown of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama, has convened a taskforce to address the shortfalls in Illinois funds. For example, funding for the Police Fund has fallen to less than 50% of requirement. The situation is actually more ominous. The calculation is based on an assumption of annual returns of 8%, but very few funds will reach that level of return in the next few years. Most funds will be lucky to escape further losses in the current market meltdown.
The city of Chicago would have to start contributing substantially more to the fund out of its general revenue and from Federal and state subsidy. Public employees are faced with the prospect of being required to contribute more from their payroll deductions. And Chicago is not unique in its public pension problem. Every city and state of the union is in similar difficult
Three of the four city pension funds have invested in a "high-risk/high-return'' real estate company co-owned by Mayor Daley's nephew Robert G. Vanecko. The only one that didn't invest was the Chicago firefighters pension plan.
Vanecko's company also got investments from the Chicago Teachers Pension Fund and the CTA Employees Retirement Plan.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/570062,CST-NWS-vaneckotax23.article
Laugh at this all you want but the entire world is undergoing a dramatic change.
Most people cannot see beyond their tiny little worlds. The current financial system in this country and in most others is disintegrating. By 2012 you will need to be able to live on less than half of what you live on now. Get out of mutual funds, stocks and any other paper investments. Do NOT buy any real estate for now. Buy hard assets - gold & silver coins, ammo, tools, storable food.
The reverse wealth effect in other countries will trigger a run on US T-bills and T-bonds and your money will become worthless outside of this country. This will be horrific for us because everything we desperately need comes from outside the U.S. - oil to run our cars, farm tractors and machinery; steel; machine tools; electronics - you name it. There are no TV's or radios or much of anything else made in the United States any more.
If you have hard assets you will have investment opportunities when the crash comes. You will have to create your own pension funds because the one run by the city will be gone.
Google "reverse wealth effect" and pay attention. Only those who take action will avoid terrible hardships.
THE CIVIC FEDERATION SUPPORTS FY2007 CHICAGO BUDGET
“The city of Chicago’s unfunded pension liabilities surpass all large cities in the
United States by billions of dollars,” said Msall. “This is a situation which requires
immediate action; city officials cannot rely upon future asset sales alone to fix this problem.
They must begin to adequately fund pensions and implement reforms without delay.” The
Federation’s analysis provided many recommendations as to how the health of the pension
funds can be improved, such as reducing pension benefits for new employees, requiring
benefit enhancements to be matched by contribution increases, and tying city contributions
to funding levels rather than an arbitrary multiplier.
Three of the City of Chicago’s four pension funds are in a state of crisis, and for the fifth
consecutive year, the funded ratios of all four City pension funds have declined. The Fire
Fund in FY2005 reported a funded ratio of only 41.8%, falling from 60.2% in FY2001. The
Police Fund’s funded ratio dropped from 70.5% to 50.7% over the same period. The once
well-funded Municipal Fund dropped from a funded ratio of 93.3% in FY2001 to 68.5% in
5
FY2005. Only the Laborers Fund remains fiscally sound. The funded ratios of the Police,
Fire, and Municipal Funds are far below levels considered financially healthy.
•
The City is reducing the size of its reserve fund from $62.6 million in FY2006, which
represented 2.1% of Corporate Fund appropriations that year, to $57.5 million or 1.9% of
Corporate Fund appropriations this year. Since FY2002 the City has made important strides
in increasing the size of its Corporate Fund balance. But the reduction this year is a step in
the wrong direction. The fund balance still remains far below the GFOA recommended level
of 5% to 15% of Corporate Fund appropriations. Meeting the minimum GFOA
recommended level would require a reserve fund of $155 million in FY2007.
•
The City of Chicago continues to have a relatively high debt burden. Between FY1996 and
FY2005, Chicago net direct debt rose by 174.9% or $3.2 billion, up from $1.8 billion to
approximately $5.1 billion. This rate of increase substantially exceeded the rate of increase
for other governments in the region. Debt service appropriations in FY2007 are projected to
be 19% of total appropriations, $1.1 billion out of $5.6 billion in total appropriations. Rating
agencies consider a debt burden high if this ratio is between 15% and 20%. The City’s high
debt burden bears watching. Absent new revenues from new or increased taxes or asset
leases, the City would be hard pressed to assume any substantial new debt obligations.
The Civic Federation has several recommendations to improve the City’s financial
management, including:
•
The City must implement pension funding reform to contain its mounting costs and to
remedy its failure to adequately fund the Police, Fire, and Municipal Funds. These reforms
should include reducing benefit levels for new hires, fixing annuity increases for new hires at
the lesser of CPI or 3%, requiring contribution increases for any benefit increases and
requiring employer contributions to relate to funding levels rather than an arbitrary
multiplier
Read the full report here:
http://74.6.239.67/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&p=CHICAGO+POLICE+pension+crisis&y=Search&fr=fptb-hptb6&u=www.civicfed.org/articles/civicfed_221.pdf&w=chicago+police+pension+pensions+crisis&d=QMrL80fiSEUR&icp=1&.intl=us
These numbers don't lie. The situation has deteriorated significantly since this report was published in 2005.
Take a look at the bar charts and graphs. The city asset sale monies were supposed to go to the pension deficits, not the Olympic bid.
The pension will be defunct when the 2016 Olympics arrive.
Here is a good article titled, "What's Happening To My Pension" written by N.A.P.O. (National Association of Police Organizations)
Ironically, NAPO is the rival to the FOP.
http://www.policepay.net/pdf/pension.pdf
This is an excerpt from the NAPO article, "What's Happening To My Pension".
The opposite, of everything recommended in this excerpt, is occurring in Chicago. Maybe, it is time to change unions. If NAPO considers this a huge threat to police officers and is warning them about it; why isn't our FOP doing said?
The real reason for the current pension crisis is that cities have not been faithful in their
contributions to the plan. If cities had been faithful, there would be no crisis today.
My commission to you is to leave here today committed to:
Forcing your employer to be faithful to their pension obligations.
To never let your employer ever go a year without contributing to the pension plan.
The future of your pension plan is in your hands. Go out and demand that you receive what was
promised to you.
If you wish to express your discontent, with the City of Chicago's funding of the Policemen's Annuity and Benefit Fund of Chicago (your pension fund), please contact:
The Civic Federation
77 N. State St., Suite 400 · Chicago, Illinois 60601 · 312-201-9066 (phone) · 312-201-9041 (fax)
civicfed@civicfed.org
TAKE ACTION NOW!!!
DON'T BITCH ANONYMOUSLY OR WAIT FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO TAKE CARE OF WHAT IS YOURS!
ACT NOW!!!
If you think we took a hit with the sub prime mortgage mess you just wait.
There is a second and much larger wave of mortgage defaults coming. It is the Alt-A mortgage monster and it is beginning to show it's ugly head.
The Alternative-A mortgage sector, which loans to borrowers with better credit than sub-prime borrowers but not quite prime shows every indication of being an even larger default mess than the sub-prime.
And with China and the rest of the world very gun shy about buying USA T-Bills where will the money come for that bail out?
Prepare for some very very bad economic times. You ain't seen nothing yet.
The city is still obligated to pay the retiree's pension no matter where the funds come from. You voted no on the constitutional convention, now vote no on the Olympics.
Just look at the number of comments to this post. The young officers do not get it. They will when they are eating cat food. Do you really think that the pols are going to make good on the pension? And now I hear the argument about taking it to court as the state is responsible. Okay, what court is not political? State Supreme court? How about Federal Courts?
Wake up, forget about the retro check, hours, and the other nonsense. The most important thing about this job is the pension.
A lot of people don't realize that their pension fund may have been invested in Israel Bonds. It's been going on for many years. In 1988, "a spokesperson for the Illinois Teacher Retirement Fund, which has...purchased Israel bonds, declined repeated requests for comment. According to Corporate Profiles, Inc., a New Jersey publishing house, the fund currently owns $5 million in Israeli government notes."
http://www.multinationalmonitor
.org/hyper/issues/1988/04/
mm0488_10.html
The Government of Israel stated in 2005 that "twenty-two of the 50 states in the U.S. hold Israel Bonds, including California, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, and Ohio. Since 1978, state agencies, such as state pension funds, have bought more than $1 billion worth of Israel Bonds."
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Archive
/Israel+Line/2005/Israel+Line+8-
Feb-2005.htm
The group Global Exchange claims that currently, "There are approximately 9,500 pension funds, 3,500 banks, 1,500 labor unions, and 500 insurance companies in the United States that invest in Israel Bonds. School districts, municipalities, and other large institutions also purchase them. One of the largest sources of institutional investment capital in Israel is from U.S. pension funds through the purchase of Israeli government bonds."
http://www.globalexchange.org/
countries/mideast/palestine/
bonds.html
Yet, even though "The recession hasn't been kind to Pittsburgh's weakening pension fund. The fund lost $124 million this year through November, leaving it with $261 million to cover $899 million in liabilities," "the fund board renewed a $1.8 million investment in State of Israel bonds...(the board was told that)having such bonds is a 'social consideration' and not an 'optimal' investment."
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/
pittsburghtrib/news/s_601581.
html
Not to worry. In a world where Chicago real estate speculators are driving out to the woods in their Jaguars and shooting themselves, where multi-billionaire German tycoons are leaping in front of trains, where French financiers are slitting their wrists and dying messily all over the Aubusson carpeting, something like the Gaza Strip looks about as safe, quiet, and stable a place to invest your retirement money as anyone could find.
Anonymous said...
No Detectives Class till 2010.
1/14/2009 03:17:00 PM
And the problem is?
The good of the many far outweighs the good of the few! NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
1/14/2009 03:40:00 PM
I couldnt agree more... I too will be calling Blago and voicing my opinion anyone know the number? I assume MOST on the job are against this portability just another bone headed move by our bone headed representation FLOP
You voted no on the constitutional convention, now vote no on the Olympics.
1/14/2009 07:05:00 PM
and NO on pension portability!!! call Governor NOW do NOT let the few drain our pension! EARN IT WITH CPD OR DONT EARN IT AT ALL!!!
TO: 3:40 PM You little snot nose "know it all bastard" Most of us forgot more than you really know about life. I hope you learn the hard way and pay the price.
NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
Only 1400 POs will benefit from this bill! The rest, the Majority some 9,000 POs get nothing...nothing! CALL today and tell the GOVs Office not to sign a bill that doesn't benefit the CPD as a whole!
NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
1/14/2009 03:40:00 PM
you, sir, could not be more right on! The FLOP has yet again wasted its resources, time, and money on a scheme that benefits the few while sticking it up the ass of the many! Im sure there are more than a few clout bitches that benefit from this "plan" but know that as a regular blue shirt, it screws us over in many many more ways than 1 screw Pen port I will be calling Blagovich as will many of my family and friends! Do not expect this to get much attention from the embattled gov
"who cares about the pension ? we need cars, pdt's and m16's. you guys dont know whats important."
Yes, we DO know what is important.
What is important to you depends where you are in your police career.
You are obviously in the new, young, aggressive, dedicated and conscientious hard charging dedicated to justice police officer. Less than 10 years. God bless you and keep you safe long enough to learn.
However, there are those of us that are a bit farther along in our careers. Like in the 25 years + range.
We have done all the car and foot chasing. Had the CR#'s. The BS lawsuits.
We have seen good and great arrests and cases get pitched by the ASA's.
Have seen arrests of clouted people that just disappear-arrest report, case report, everything.
While many of us we out doing police work, making do with crummy cars, PDT and revolvers, insiders were riding a desk to the top. And crying about how tough it was working a desk Monday thru Friday. And if they needed a little time, it was managed. But the field officers had to fight to get CU8.
Some got too dedicated. They took the job personal. The got in trouble for it. Some got fired. Some were killed. Some took it home with them and paid the price with a divorce. Of health issues.
When you realize that you are not going to change or save the world, you can then save what is really important: Your family and yourself. Nothing else.
You will come around and see that. Then you will understand about the pension. It is your reward for putting up with all the BS.
You brainless sheep, they killed your shepperd and now you roam free, predators to the wolf.
Pension Portability:
The law that passed and is awaiting the gov's signature will have ZERO negative effect on the pension fund. That was a condition of its being passed. The officers who may participate must pay both the employer and employee portions AND interest to buy in, and then only up to 10 years. With no new hires on the radar screen, the infusion of cash from 1400 former suburban cops into our pension fund is a godsend for solvency.
AND, this law is just a clarification of an existing statute that allowed only Cook County Sheriffs to "buy in". No reasoning was given for them to receive this special treatment under the law. Now the law is fair for all officers transferring pensions statewide.
If you are really concerned about drains on the pension fund look at the white shirt pad-your-buddies-retirement club, their golden parachutes are the REAL problem.
I can just about guarantee that the samething that happened to CTA employees will happen to FOP members. The CTA Union negotiated wage increases that were put into their pension fund to sustain the viability of their fund. OUR FUND HAS LOST 1.5 BILLION DOLLARS SINCE THE ECONOMIC DECLINE! I realize memebers may not want to face this economic reality, but to ensure our DEFINED BENEFIT pension formula, proper funding is paramount. The fund or the union are not to blame for this. It is just financial reality. The vibility of our fund is vastly more important than short term wage increases.
If our pension collapses we should rush Daley's house and those of all his friends. Take what we want, who'll stop us???
everyone i knew who took the police test about 20 years ago..did so for the benefits and pension.the medical has been disappearing inch by inch because our union let the city get its foot in the door. the new guys/under 5 years should be aware of the pension fund. the last post was dead on. you want to make it to enjoy your retirement without destroying you family and your health. everything else is bullshit
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/01/massive-taxpayer-backlash-over-pension.html
SCC, this is Mish Shedlock's site and he just this evening posted a note on this topic. He's a Ron Paul type Austrian-school conservative (like me).
The whole system is a Ponzi scheme, where more and bigger promises are made until the whole system collapses. That is how you get 4.5 GM retirees for ever current GM worker.
According to Mish's numbers, there are municapilities where the bulk of operating expenses are already going to pension obligations.
All this at the same time that Federal, state and local tax revenues are shrinking.
And Chicago unions with their funding ratios below 50%? There is no way that a PO in his 20s will ever be collecting a pension under this system in his 80s. At least, not one funded nearly as well as is being promised today.
1/14/2009 12:26:00 AM
--------------------------------------
This asshole Shedlock is blaming all the unions for forcing higher wages and perks onto the taxpayers. I don't know about you, but I pay a large percentage of my salary into my pension. Nobody is GIVING me anything like the taxpayers have been led to believe. The problem is, and always has been, the legislatures who do not fund the pensions and defer the payments into the future at a higher cost. POLITICIANS.....FOLLOW THE LAW.
NO Pension Portability!!!
Call Governor NOW, DO NOT let the few DRAIN our pension! EARN IT WITH CPD OR DONT EARN IT AT ALL!!!
Hey whats the number for the GOVERNORs Office to voice complaints about this BS pension portablity?
The law that passed and is awaiting the gov's signature will have ZERO negative effect on the pension fund.
maybe zero effect on the short term but it will help destroy our pension in the long term. You see, when more people cash out than are paying in you have a problem. The bulk of the CPD need everyone paying in their fair share... We are not the Crook County Sehriffs... If you like their rules, go work for them... you can apparently buy back your CPD time. You knew the rules when you got hired, now earn your CPD pension like eveyrone else!!! Until then, keep flooding the Gov with phone calls people... as of this morning, the woman I spoke with said because of the high volumes of calls regarding this matter, the Gov will put it on the back burner to be looked at further down the road!!! NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!
and NO on pension portability!!! call Governor NOW do NOT let the few drain our pension! EARN IT WITH CPD OR DONT EARN IT AT ALL!!!
1/14/2009 09:41:00 PM
Wow, I am glad I am not the only one seeing this. What in the world was FOP thinking fighting for this when our pension is dangerously low as is. This will be yet another straw that proke the camel's back.
If FOP truly cares, they will negotiate in this contract a two tier system. The city will love this because it saves them money, and because of that we will be able to get something quite large out of it now such as a decent raise.
I have made probably 20 to 30 calls to the governors office urging he take a real hard look at this portability plan. With the current shape of the pensions in this state, we need people paying into, not cashing out of the pension system. The amount of money brought in by this plan only benefits the short term and will end up costing the pension millions! I suggest every one call the goverbors Chicago office, as well as Springfield and urge him NOT to sign this selfish bill! I can count nearly 100 individuals who I have spoken to and they feel the same... and each of them is also flooding the Governor... so please call for your future's sake!!! The good of the many far outweighs the good of the few! NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
1/14/2009 03:40:00 PM
Fuck You, Many of us here worked as the police in the suburbs, CHA, Cook County Etc.and decided to make the move here. We will pay our fair share to buy in the years we want. You are the selfish one and just jealous because you can't do it. You are just like the guys who say, "what about him WA WA" so shut the fuck up and go get your shine box.
NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
Only 1400 POs will benefit from this bill! The rest, the Majority some 9,000 POs get nothing...nothing! CALL today and tell the GOVs Office not to sign a bill that doesn't benefit the CPD as a whole!
NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
1/14/2009 10:42:00 PM
WE are paying for our years asshole, we are not getting it for free.
The Bill was signed, they are accepting applications already. I filed mine for 4 years a few days ago. I will pay whatever the require I am not asking for a free ride. So don't waste you call. If you don't believe me call or check the pensions board web site. There is a link on the FLOP web site.
Yea fuck over fellow officers by speaking out against portability while the city shells out 2.25 million to a dead home invaders family. Thats why we don't get any respect from the rest of this city because we fight amongst ourselves all the time. Divide and conquer short shanks is loving it. Wake up you young dummies. If something can benefit one of us, let it be, don't post jealous rants on the blog. worry about yourself not the other guy. our pension is covered by the state. It is in the constitution. If the stste bellies up we are all done. portability will not drain our fund. Bad investments and the like will.
Yea thats right keep fighting each other. Every other department in the state has portability and they have contracts on time. Why because they stick together and have good representation. Just look at how we are calling each other assholes etc. and actually asking people to make calls that will fuck over fellow officers. We are a joke ! Portability won't make the fund broke. Why can't we have the same benefits as other departments. say you want to leave chicago someday you can use portability. Why should it be any different here. Because we are some miserable jealous people who fight eachother instead of sticking togeather, thats why we will never change and will always be looked at as a joke.
not sure where Mish Shedlock is getting his figure of municipalities having 57% of their police costs going toward pension debt....but in Chicago-the police penesion fund is a seperate item in the cioty budget- it accounts for 5.9% of the city budget....and if you did compare it to the budget line item cost for the police department- it's only 16% of the police budget (but-it's not included in the budget of police 'costs').
So-57% might be true in a small city with less revenye but so far it's not true here....
For you nay sayers-go ahead and check the 2009 budget yourself:
http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_ATTACH/2009_Appropriation_Ordinance_FINAL.pdf
The problem really is that we allow the city to not contribute their portion of our pension fund until the police member actually retires- so we miss out on the pension being able to use of that money during the time period of the officer's 20-30 year career.
That needs to change!
Anonymous said...
The pension portibility act is sitting on the Gov's desk. This should be signed without delay so Gov. pull out your pen and SIGN IT!!!
1/13/2009 02:01:00 PM
I have made probably 20 to 30 calls to the governors office urging he take a real hard look at this portability plan. With the current shape of the pensions in this state, we need people paying into, not cashing out of the pension system. The amount of money brought in by this plan only benefits the short term and will end up costing the pension millions! I suggest every one call the goverbors Chicago office, as well as Springfield and urge him NOT to sign this selfish bill! I can count nearly 100 individuals who I have spoken to and they feel the same... and each of them is also flooding the Governor... so please call for your future's sake!!! The good of the many far outweighs the good of the few! NO PENSION PORTABILITY!!!
1/14/2009 03:40:00 PM
The Pension Portability Bill will become law AUTOMATICALLY after either 60 days or 90 days. Blago doesn't have to sign it, as long as he doesn't veto it, it becomes law by default. This from mark Donahue at the last General Meeting.
I'M TAKING MY MONEY OUT AND PUTTING IT IN A SAFE PLACE BEFORE EVERYTHING IS GONE.
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Me too! I'm going to take all my money out and buy a truck so I can get hired back by the city!
check out:
http://www.news4jax.com/mostpopular/18472902/detail.html#-
Are they ever going to make a class of new Detectives???? Its been over a year since the last class.
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I'm the REAL police! I want to wear a suite and strut around like my shit don't stink! WAAAAAAAAAA! I want to be a dick! Oh wait, I am a dick. LOL!
Anonymous said...
everyone i knew who took the police test about 20 years ago..did so for the benefits and pension.the medical has been disappearing inch by inch because our union let the city get its foot in the door. the new guys/under 5 years should be aware of the pension fund. the last post was dead on. you want to make it to enjoy your retirement without destroying you family and your health. everything else is bullshit
1/15/2009 05:54:00 AM
Wrong about the medical. The union never has had much to say about the medical. The union can argue or try to bargain but from the very first contract, medical insurance was not part of the contract. THAT was the huge mistake but was unforeseen in 1980.
Since then the City has been essentially free to do what they want with medical insurance. The union has been to court with the city about this, it isn't in the contract so the best we can do is to try to not get fucked too badly.
The city takes the stance that as our wages go up we should be able to pay more of our own health expenses out of pocket. They base this on what other cities police officers pay and also as a way of getting some of our raises back.
Philadelphia has much better health insurance but lower wages. It is a trade off.
During a recent contract negotiation the FOP argued for something similar to Philadelphia where the city gives the union money and the union runs the medical insurance for it's members. Everyone gets the same insurance.
The city offered every contract of every large city police department in the country in place of the one we have. The union of course declined.
The mistake was back when Dineen and company failed to get health insurance in writing in that first contract. Now we get what we get.
Buy hard assets - gold & silver coins, ammo, tools, storable food.
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A little paranoid? Well, maybe it will happen like this person says. But then again, maybe not. Is the world changing? Yes. But the world changes everyday. Will this affect you? Of course. What can the average person do about it? Probably nothing but they will survive, maybe not in the way that they have grown accustomed to but they and society will still be here.
Whats' being said now isn't anything new....learn to live within your means. We all know that our pension is underfunded, has been for years. So with that information maybe you should have started cutting back on the spending. You know, like bringing your lunch to work instead of buying it. Even if you eat at a place that only charges $5,if you eat there everyday that amounts to $30/w,$120/m,and $1440/y. Put in 20 years and you have spent over $28,000 on eating. Ok, that is a simplistic example and doesn't take into account RDO's or furlos but you get the idea. After 20years that money could have been invested (hey, the market will improve), or put into a savings account earning simple interest.
We are not the first generation to face this crises and we won't be the last. There are ways for each and everyone of us to make sure that our retirement is a good one. Take some personal action now.
"If our pension collapses we should rush Daley's house and those of all his friends. Take what we want, who'll stop us???
1/15/2009 02:51:00 AM"
Not sure. Maybe the recently deceased, free roaming, alien humanoid "Sheppard" (AKA Shepherd)?
Anonymous said...
THERE WILL BE NO MORE USA IN 2014! GET IT IN YOUR HEAD EVEN THE RUSSIANS THINK WE WILL IMPLODE> VIVA MEXICO-JUST WAIT TILL THAT COUNTRY COLLAPSES DUE TO OUT OF CONTROL GANGS AND DRUG LORDS>OUR DOLLAR WILL BECOME WORTHLESS SOON> THERE ARE NO REAL JOBS ANYMORE JUST PAPER SHUFFLERS>SO BE READY BOYS AND GIRLS-SEMPER FI!
1/14/2009 10:47:00 AM
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And how about Jody's little "How to spot a Terrorist" booklet he put out that sits on the cabinets in the hallways and the roll call room tables collecting dust and cluttering the stations!
Ex: If you see a guy with WIRES comoing hanging out of his jacket....it is suspicious!!??
Are you kidding me ?
Did anyone read that BS?
That gets you the other half of $300,000.00 salary....I could have done that shit!
Let's get really cracking Jody on the Terrorist like how about some REAL Intelligence sent out to the Districts so we can monitor the house or the mosque or the Hookah Bar!
Let's DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT not just print booklets to fool Daley and the Aldermen!!!!
Fuck DUDE since he is getting the pass by our NON-PROACTIVE policing lets go after the REAL threats (besides politicians and white collar criminals the G is looking at of course)
Together We Can (was our motto)
What is it now?
Keep em guessing and then I can do it myself because I can!
If a two tiered pension system is put into place, such as 401k for new hires, tell me, who will be left paying into the pension plan?
When no new employees are there paying into it don't you think it will go belly up? I do. We need to do something about the pension system but stopping new hires from paying into it isn't the answer.
Out of all the bills put forth before the house and the senate the asshole FOP and Donahue could only get pension portability passed. Been watching the bills to get a raise for Disabled cops come up every year and never even get looked at but pension portability gets passed. Let me remind all of you that you are just one day away from becoming disabled on this job this applies to all of us can't say that about the pension portability. And when and if you do become disabled see how it feels to wait 10 years for a raise. You assholes that think pension portability is so great are typical of what this job has become. You bitch about no contract and no raises ask the disabled coppers how they feel hoping to make it 10 years for a raise. This job has become nothing but a bunch of selfish one way jag offs or maybe it always was. But hey my disabled brothers and sisters have no fear Fat Phil will come to your rescue, yeah right about the time Mark and the FOP get the State to vote you a raise.
To the miserable, jealous, strokes so concerned about pension portability.
Fact, officers eligible for participation must still have 20 years of CPD service, and be 50 years of age to retire; so we will "do our CPD time".
Yes we were aware of the conditions of employemnt when hired. So by your standards the membership should be frozen in time to our date of hire as far as the rules and regulations go?!?!?
HUH?
So nothing to improve conditions is to be pursued?
Are you insane, or just a jagoff?
I too am concerned about the plight of disabled officers, but this is not an either/or situation; the portability bill has been fought for 15 plus years. It is a clarification of the law and now pension law is uniform statewide.
Chicago officers benefit from statewide uniform standards being applied. For too long Chicago and its mayor have wiped their ass with state law/protections for police officers, portability is a big step in the right direction
"I'M TAKING MY MONEY OUT AND PUTTING IT IN A SAFE PLACE BEFORE EVERYTHING IS GONE."
OK-just so you understand- if you take 'your' money out -you aren't getting the city's portion and even if you had 20 + years on- the amount you paid into your pension is probably under 60 thousand.
Good luck to you Warren Buffett!
The stock market is on collapse-
T-Bonds are giving 0% interest and you probably have no idea what's happing other than what the media tells you.
Do you really think you have the expertise to make your 60 thousand grow to an amount that will support you? keep in mind-even if you have your 40 quarters in- you get half of the social security benefit you are entitled to (Thanks Rostenkowski!)
Just to help you out-you will need health insurance-check out the pension board's chart of insurance rates for 2008:
http://www.chipabf.org/About%20Your%20Benefits/Insurance/Ins_Rates_2008.htm
So let's play a game:
If you don't stay until 60, you'll be paying $627 for medical insurance for you and your wife, and once you turn 65, it drops down to $233. Oh- but that's for 2008- using an inflation calculator (http://www.hellodollar.com/archives/2005/10/inflation_calcu.html)....let's just see what your insurance will be if health care insurance only rises at a 3% rate of inflation. You're 50 now and by the time your insurance rate drops due to medicare (if you have those quarters in), your $233 medicare eligible monthly premium will be $473.64, if you don't have your quarters in and aren't 65, your $627 premium will now be 1274.56. So-the minimum you'll pay a year is $5680.80.
So-the reality is that health care premiums rise faster that inflation- in 2006 they rose 7.7 percent and in 2007 they rose 6.1 percent. According to the Kaiser Foundation:
"Since 2001, premiums for family coverage have increased 78 percent, while wages have gone up 19 percent and inflation has gone up 17 percent."
Source:
http://www.kff.org/insurance/ehbs091107nr.cfm
So-if you got 5% per year on your 60,000 but don't add to it, you'll have a grand total of $203181. If you continue to make 5% and, at retirement, withdraw only 4% as most retirement planners would advise, your interest would be $10159 and your 4% of principle would be 9272 so your total income from 'your money' would be $19,431 per year. Subtract your minimum health care cost of $5680 and you have a grand total of $13,751 to live off of. And going back to the inflation calculator: your $13,751 in 25 year will have the buying power of $6,421.37 in today's dollars.
Even if you bought an annuity for $60000 at 50, got 5% and had a payout for 35 years-your annual payout would be $3,489.81 per year.
(Calculator used for annuity is found at www.moneychimp.com)
So it's probably a good thing Walmart teaches their employees how to file for food stamps and where the local food banks are.
Maybe you should consider leaving your money right where it is and get what the city owes you, what's guarranteed by state statute?
or how about taking some personal responsibility and make an appointment with a financial planner or trying to learn a bit about finances or economics instead of drunk-posting moronic threats?
Unless you have two minutes on the job-your solution makes no sense!
For those moaning about the Pension Portability Bill not being signed by Blago, he doesn't have to sign it. (SB2520)
It becomes law by 17 Feb 09 at the latest, read the newsletter, if you did not get one in the mail it is on the FOP web site.
who cares about the pension ? we need cars, pdt's and m16's. you guys dont know whats important
Wha, wha what ?!! Are you retarded?
Where my pension is? I work every day.
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