Sunday, April 05, 2009

Rifles Now Please

In light of the recent mass murders of police officers in Oakland and Pittsburgh, we'd like see the following:
  • Gun locks in the cars NOW;
  • Rifles and shotguns on the street NOW;
  • Elimination of the ridiculous requirements to carry a weapon that should have been on the street years ago. We'd rather have the rifle in the hands of a capable shooter with a bum knee and a twisted back than sitting in the radio room, collecting dust, doing nobody any good.
We'll explain this so even a caveman could understand it. We have an assortment of tools that were invented decades ago. They are called a rifle and a shotgun. For some reason, an anti-gun mayor has decided that we can't carry these tools despite clear evidence they could save the lives of officers and citizens.

Now, in the event that one or more individuals are cut down by an assailant wielding superior firepower, those who were shot will bleed to death while officers hunker down at a distance with inadequate weaponry waiting for backup. Unfortunately, some of those shot may be our coworkers. And those rifles that may have permitted officers to return fire, pin down the assailant, maybe even end the assault and save lives? So sorry, but the mayor doesn't like guns.

You want to raise morale, make officers safer and maybe even get a few brownie points from the rank and file? Authorize rifles and shotguns first thing Monday morning, no preconditions. We'll bet your "policy group" will be pissing themselves to present this idea as their shining moment. Try to remember we've been saying it here with our readers since before you came to Chicago.

Labels:

129 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The writing is on the wall with the horrible events that has occurred over the past few weeks. A handgun against an assault rifle is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

4/05/2009 12:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't forget that you need more bodies. CPD is operating well below the 14,000 officers that they are budgeted for.

There are a great deal of people who want to test and get on.

God bless the CPD and nobody else.

4/05/2009 12:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

At this point morale is dead... I dont care about my morale.. I go home every night, see my family, get my paycheck and smile. The respect of the rank and file... really, does it matter at this point? Again, this is now nothing more than a job... Every day I go to work underprepared I handle myself differently. I no longer care about the citizens. I do what my job says I must... nothing more. The days of "going above and beyond" are gone. Someone screaming inside? I wait for backup. An onview drive by? I call it in because I would hate to violate the departments no chase policy... On view robbery? I approach the victim and act as a very good witness... And ensure they get the best paper around... Shots fired at a school? My kid's not in there? I call for SWAT and secure the perimeter... Sorry, joe lunchbuckit (as steinberg referred) I just dont care... I am under paid, under supported, under staffed, and under equipped... All for what? A crooked mayor? Crooked politicians? Crooked reverends? Crooked citizens? Nah... job just isnt the same... sorry... you get what you pay for... I am part of the new and unimproved reactive police... Want me to run into a burning building just slammed into by a 767??? Think again... I will write killer paper for it, but my interest is myself... 1st and 16th baby... thats it! Like the rest of America, my job is just that... A JOB! The public hates us until it is convenient, even adventageous to love us.... Sorry joe lunchbuckit... You are on your own! We are just lowly, selfish civil servants... be your own hero... I am!

4/05/2009 12:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Retired 2008 Guy Says: Give the real police the tools they need NOW. The shit will eventually hit the fan in Chicago. Our out gunned (and understaffed)department should be adequately armed.

4/05/2009 12:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thats fine... keep your rifles... store them in the same room as my ambition! FUCK THIS CITY

4/05/2009 12:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It will never happen. Remember Weis let Det. Airheart die bleeding in a room, because he refused to let anybody go in there and refused to let the snipers take out the bad guy. Whem will you people realize this!

4/05/2009 12:23:00 AM  
Blogger Too Many Rectums said...

SCC:
We know attacks against law enforcement personnel are going to grow throughout the USA. The tragedy in Pittsburgh is the offspring of the Oakland tragedy. Unfortunately, the attacks against law enforcement personnel will grow as the economy continues to tank.

This will be a terrible year for us. To make matters worse, we don't have a real leader for superintendent; we have a dolt.

The carbines and shotguns won't be issued to us until Chicago has its own tragedy. We have a piece of shit mayor who doesn't give a shit about us.

4/05/2009 12:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But the public is right... we dont deserve a contract... we dont deserve a raise... only 7 dead in a week! But times are tough Fuck you Daley!

4/05/2009 12:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Again as usual SCC your right! I am a proud KMA club member,and remember when we had shotguns,go into any bar fight chamber a round complete silence and CONTROL! All the preconditions thought of by leo and the skull are useless! These jagoffs need to understand we need equipment like this! All the suburbs have them,the state police ditto,but because we have a weak asshole mayor who is scared of everything we have nothing! The biggest joke is leo thought to give his swat guys overtime at the airports,in cooperation with ellyn he did just that,but then can carry no heavy weapons! Why? asshole why? WOOOOOOO!

4/05/2009 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Your King and Leader said...

Nah, shootings like this could never happen in Chicago. These guns are not permitted in Chicago. They are against the law, and the fine citizens of Chicago would never break the law. I your king have decreed this. Guns are bad, bad, bad. It's silly, silly, silly that my police force wants bigger guns. Guns would hurt my voters.

I, lil' king richie the short have spoken. (This message has been approved by the Brady Bunch, the Democratic Party, my pet alderbums and Bill Ayers and the Saul Alinsky Gang).

4/05/2009 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Blue Flu anyone??? sorry I forgot we have suckasses that wont even attend an informational picket... suckasses that wont stop generating revenue... suckasses that wont stop kissing ass to make their own situation better... we have no unity... this department is a joke!

4/05/2009 12:25:00 AM  
Blogger ANGRY PIG said...

Although I agree with you ,SCC,the chance of this happening is nil,Mayor jag-off would rather go to one of our funerals than let the play reverends constituency be intimidated.Remember they vote in a democratic block.

4/05/2009 12:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Don't forget the nursing home and civic center shootings. 24 people shot just between those two.

4/05/2009 12:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Taken from an article regarding the Binghamton shooting. It was at least the sixth fatal mass shooting in the U.S. in the past month, and the nation's deadliest since April 2007, when 32 people and a gunman died at Virginia Tech.

4/05/2009 12:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am living in a small town, the COUNTY Sheriff's gave me a ride along, CPD look like cavemen compared to what they have at their finger tips................. I was shocked.......... The computers, the rifles and shotguns, the equipment.................. CPD the second largest in the NATION looks like Fred Flintstone compared to what the smaller agencies have...........And don't give me that BS, that it cost too much to outfit out Police. Look at the stupid BEAN and see how much $$$$ went into that, compared to keeping our Officer's safe and our citizens safe.

4/05/2009 01:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What can the citizens who want you to have these tool's in your aresnal do to help?

4/05/2009 01:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the fbi shootout in florida and the la bank robbery shooting was not enough to motivate someone to do something. excuses, excuses, excuses-- to hell with the liability-- it is worth the risk if it saves someone's life. why can't a guy carry a 44 magnum if he can qualify with it. what's wrong with a guy with a shotgun if he is qualified with it-- one of the biggest police departments in the nation and we are stuck in the stone age-- even sheriff coaltrain has a carbine and riot gun.

4/05/2009 02:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Geico Insurance Caveman said...

Dear SCC:

I take offfense to your caveman statement.

I have two Masters Degrees and a PHD.

Please refrain from using the caveman as a reference about stupid people.


Sincerely,

Geico Insurance Caveman

4/05/2009 03:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a Former U.S. Army Airborne Ranger (in my younger days) But because of a bum knee i cant take out a weapon because i cant run to be able to qualify. I really hope they change this rule soon.
Believe me when i tell you. I wish i was able to run like in my younger days.

4/05/2009 03:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If you need firepower call your Aldercreature. They can carry weapons without any training and the Mayor does not seem to care

4/05/2009 04:10:00 AM  
Anonymous We need firepower NOW! said...

"When citizens need help in seconds, the police are only minutes away."

When the police need help in seconds, SWAT is only 20 to 30 minutes away.

One common denominator in Oakland (4 slain officers) and Pittsburgh (3 slain officers): a Kalashnikov AK-47.

While ninety-nine percent of police officers can NOT afford a Heckler & Koch MP-5 with all the bells and whistles, I'll buy my own.

GIVE US THE FIREPOWER NOW!

Does Richard M. Daley want our blood on his hands?
Must we wait until after the CPD encounters a bloodthirsty suicidally berserk Mixon or Poplawski with an AK-47 in a seemingly "routine" incident?

4/05/2009 04:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The AR-15 course should be a two day course like the striker fire training...we need as many of these tools out on the street as fast as possible...there are 4 in the radio room with 15-18 cars on the street

4/05/2009 07:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You want to raise morale, make officers safer and maybe even get a few brownie points from the rank and file? Authorize rifles and shotguns first thing Monday morning, no preconditions."

THE MAYOR WOULD RATHER BURY YOU & BLUBBER @ YOUR FUNERAL THAN OUTFIT YOU WITH THE NECESSARY FIREPOWER. REMEMBER WE DON'T OPERATE IN "THE REAL WORLD".

4/05/2009 07:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, sad but true, those officers were all pretty much ambushed, doesn't matter if they were carrying RPG's.

4/05/2009 07:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This fucktard mayor and j-pud are incapable of being proactive about anything except shackling this department with more rules and regulations that are just plain stupid. When the carnage happens then and only then will they attempt to implement some sort of solution. By that time who knows how many police and citizens will have lost their lives. This stupid anti-gun mayor is truly stupid! I've written about this subject matter previously and posted it here. Who the fuck is going to pass the equivalent of a power test just before they take out a possible mass murderer who is hell bent on killing as many people as he or she possibly can? The lights won't come on till many lives are needlessly lost. This dumbfuck administration is blind to what is happening in other parts of the country. Oakland, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia just to name a few. Thats the way of mayor shortshanks. He is mildly retarded.

4/05/2009 07:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weis has doomed his career here by listening to three goofs: Masters, Hamilton, and Peterson. He does not make a make a move without the OK from Masters, the puppet of the Mayor. None of the clowns have a clue as to what to do next. But on the bright side we finally have some guidance as to what flashlight we can carry as a secondary. Thanks policy group!

In a related note, what is it about Sgt Hamilton's job entitles him to a take home car and Lt's pay? Was there a new rank created just for him? Noelle? Hoffman? Anyone?

4/05/2009 08:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know where else to post this, so excuse me if it's not the right place. I happened to be watching "Saturday Night Live" last night and saw a skit that disturbed me. A group, supposedly the Muppets is riding in a bus, and a Police Officer pulls them over. One of the Muppets has a shotgun and shoots the Police Officer and the Muppets drive off and start singing....WTF??? This is supposed to be funny? SNL is most definitely NOT funny and hasn't been in years, but in light of the current murders of Police Officers, I thought this was in extremely bad taste and indicative of the mentality that the life of a Police Office means nothing. It made me sick.

4/05/2009 08:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No rifles or shotguns.I told you before,they are to intimidating to our fine citizens.That is why they were taken out of the cars years ago.
Thank you,
Shortshanks
What happened in Oakland and Philly won't happen here.Plain and simple.Eveybody knows that.

4/05/2009 08:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said, I already told my wife if I am killed by an assailant with an assault rifle to sue the shit out of the city and name weiss and daley. I can't pass the power test because of the run. My leg was broken 2 times once in 2 places all IOD and I had to have my knee drained 2 times both from IOD's and when I walk it sounds like rice crispies when you pour the milk on. So by not allowing me to receive the carbine training you kept me from defending myself thereby contributing to my death.

4/05/2009 08:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dickhead j-fed will be on wbbm newsradio today at 9:30 am and pm. heard a small clip and he says arrests are down because crime is down.......that it doesnt have anything to do with morale....what a complete stroke!!!!!

4/05/2009 08:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is also a wake up call for citizens...when you are in a work place when an active shooter enters, having access to some kind of firearm is a matter of life or death. I would not be suprised to see a run on hiring armed security. For the police, its a no- brainer...you need long guns now.

4/05/2009 08:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey we can use that extra hidden treasure money to buy them. Boy just give me the word and I will get mine today. They have several really nice ones at Calelas in Indiana and Daley will not get any of the tax money. Not that you could buy guns in Chicago anyway, well not legally.

4/05/2009 08:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just a matter of time for what happened in Oakland and Pittsburgh WILL happen here!

We are way undermanned with NO fire power!

Thanks Daley 'the antigun nut'!

4/05/2009 08:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"We'll explain this so even a caveman could understand it."


Heh heh heh...

4/05/2009 09:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

`dickhead j-fed will be on wbbm newsradio today at 9:30 am and pm. heard a small clip and he says arrests are down because crime is down.......that it doesnt have anything to do with morale....what a complete stroke!!!!!

4/05/2009 08:32:00 AM

so I guess either Chicago IS NOT going through economic tough times, or it is a miracle city. You see jpud, when economy craps out, crime goes up... law enforcement 101... I guess they didnt teach that at Quantico! Arrests are down because NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ANYMORE!!!

4/05/2009 09:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If citizens are killed here because officers are out-gunned , JFED will recieve a "no confidence vote" from the general public. Shortshanks will recieve his own "no confidence vote" in the next election.

4/05/2009 09:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Look giving me a stupid carbine is not going to improve my moral.Daley can stick his carbine uo his ass sideways no lube.

4/05/2009 10:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"He is mildly retarded.

4/05/2009 07:54:00 AM"


Mildly?

4/05/2009 10:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

New rules:
1. On all bank alarm calls wait for the FBI to respond and stay out of their way.

2. On man with a gun or shots fire calls request HBT and stand by.

3. If it ain't a 10-1 simply drive around in the outer area avoiding trouble.

3. Don't be a outgunned and dead hero to an ungrateful city that keeps Daley and Burke in power.

4. Be safe at all cost!

5. Let the street gangs clean out the banks. The government will just print more money.

6. Let's make sure not one cop is shot or killed this summer.

7. Write lots of paper to justify your existance.

8. Write up every bit of vandalism. Make littering reports comple with interviews of potential witnesses. Avoid arrests just make paper. "Squad, hold me down on a littering investigation" 20 minutes come back up with a "19-P Paul"

9. Help mothers with car baby seats and old people crossing streets.

10. Get ten of your family members or friends to write J-Fed letters of commendations for your partner for helping them change tires and such.

4/05/2009 10:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People, stop going to two-man jobs 99. Stop telling the dispatcher. I'll let you know if I need assistance." Wait for back up.

If you don't want to wait for back up, stop crying about manpower shortages.

4/05/2009 10:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, sad but true, those officers were all pretty much ambushed, doesn't matter if they were carrying RPG's.

4/05/2009 07:47:00 AM

Dear Dork!
SWAT/SORT will be the last on the scene. (NOT their fault)
So if any of our guys are ambushed by an offender with a high powered rifle, you are welcome to be the next on the scene with your pistol to take out the bad guy.

Obviously a house mouse do nothing.

4/05/2009 10:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

make a bet....the first time a ''citizen'' is shot by a rifle. JJ cellphone will explode and he ll stick his mugg in front of the cameras saying'' the police used overkill. the poor boyyyyy didnt stand a chance''. remember what he said when this issue came up? another guy/like shanks that never gets called to the carpet for stupid comments

4/05/2009 10:46:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not the police (but have family in the police).

If you own it and are qualified to use it, you ought to be able to bring it with you and use it when necessary.

Crap, you guys have to buy practicallyeverything you use on the job! You ought to be allowed to protect yourselves adequately against scumbags with more firepower than you.

4/05/2009 10:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Listen to insane obama, he said he felt sorry for the familes of the shooting (immigrants or not they should be recoginized as human beings) BUT he NEVER even mentioned we now have 7 dead officers and how he felt sorry for their families.

4/05/2009 11:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What can the citizens who want you to have these tool's in your aresnal do to help?

4/05/2009 01:53:00 AM

----

It won't be much help, realistically, but contact your alderman's office and tell them how you feel (if you haven't done this already, you will most likely be shocked at how apathetic they are to any citizen concerns).

Politically, it would be a jackpot for Daley if the Pittsburgh or the Oakland incident had happened here. If dead CPS students aren't furthering his anti-gun agenda, maybe dead CPD officers will. Sad, but we have to realize that we have a mayor and a city council that values ghetto reverends over police lives.

If you truly care about going home after every tour with the same amount of holes as when you started, then do two things:

1. Buy whatever equipment or weapons you need to survive the battlefield: an "unauthorized" carbine or shotgun in the trunk will get you a suspension -- not having one may get you a nice funeral. Do some online shopping at work and get yourself a couple of level 4 ballistic ceramic plates and a plate carrier (about $500) which will stop those AK rounds.

2. Think before you go putting yourself in harm's way. Do you want to get killed or wounded chasing some idiot over a rock or a bag of weed? I don't. So why is it that whenever there's a foot pursuit and someone asks why are you chasing him, there's silence over the radio? Foot pursuits are dangerous, know why you are getting into them! Same with car chases. Street stops? I ask why? Is it worth getting on tac so you can wear jeans and a hoodie at work? Think, people. Think.

4/05/2009 11:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No rifles? No shotguns? You haven't seen anything yet. The mayor's just getting started.

4/05/2009 11:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

according to our super cop j-fed...on wbbm this morn. cpd staffing is at 97.1%. hes so full of shit...says total sworn personal is 13,500...he is delusional.....interview can be heard on wbbm.com and we be on radio again at 9:30 tonight(sun)he also talks shit about cozzi...he sent the video to the feds. says cozzi should be in prison...leave now asshat!!!!

4/05/2009 11:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shots fired at a school? My kid's not in there? I call for SWAT and secure the perimeter..... On view robbery?... be your own hero... I am!

4/05/2009 12:19:00 AM

Not being proactive is one thing, but saying you wont even respond to kids being shot in a school or on view violence is a whole new low. You need to change the "we" in your comment to an "I" because your probably the only one who wouldn't go running into a school to help. You need to quite using the moral issue as a crutch for your cowardice. You should feel shame every time you put on the star for even saying such a ridiculous thing.

Disgruntled or not, there are times when WE have to man up and do the job. Coppers do this every day throughout the city. Its the responsibility WE (aside form the 1 or 2 clowns like the idiot at 12:19) took when WE became the police and something WE (-1 or 2) take very seriously.

4/05/2009 11:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The new Tahoes do not have the rifle locks WTF!!!

4/05/2009 11:53:00 AM  
Blogger Have it Better Than Most said...

TO: But on the bright side we finally have some guidance as to what flashlight we can carry as a secondary. Thanks policy group!


Please do tell....I haven't heard anything but would be a plus if good info!!!

4/05/2009 12:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its not that the Mayor dislikes guns.

Its that the Mob and Gangs don't like the police to be well armed...and they are the ones that pay daley his graft.

4/05/2009 12:14:00 PM  
Blogger LATHROP ONE said...

Food for Thought in 004/006

Turf war is mounting between the Stones and Rival gangs in the area of 83 to 87 Wallace to State.

TRANSLATION:
They are amassing weapons and not the little 9mm you THINK they have.
Bear in mind that on the south end of 004 a kid was killed with an AK-47. This WILL go thru your vest like butter, plates or not. How you might ask do you respond to this threat? Equally arm yourself. How? a minimum of 40 cal 185's for the hand gun and a MINIMUM of a Mossburg 500 or Benelli in the trunk. YOU WILL ALWAYS CARRY at LEAST 2 Handguns.While HBT,SWAT MSF and all the other cute little units are nice, First response DEMANDS under current conditions that we keep and retain MATCHING WEAPONS. Ideally you and your partner will carry matching weapons.(ammo exchange under fire)
Unfortunately the City in its "gee we cant handle THAT kind of liability" mindset still thinks that a 9mm will handle all. THIS AS HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO LIGHT is NOT IN ANYWAY SHAPE OR FORM the case. I could go with the obvious scenarios but a good example is Jeff Fort and his "bunker". Do you think for a minute we wont be burying PO's if THAT were to happen again? At the very least the rapids and 06 cars should be "specially armed" in each district.
If it were up to me THAT would be the minimum that you would be carrying out there. And im NOT the police. You need decent weapons come see me. Ill open MY safes for you.(and you BETTER clean them before you return them) Remember logic and reason is OUT THE WINDOW when a Stone is pointing a loaded AK at you.

Stay safe

L-1

4/05/2009 12:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

What can the citizens who want you to have these tool's in your aresnal do to help?

4/05/2009 01:53:00 AM

Simple............Get the People to stop re-electing Ritchie and get some Honest people into City Hall for the first time in a century.

4/05/2009 12:19:00 PM  
Anonymous PO5-1313 said...

Again, I like the fact that all I have to do is dial 911 and help arrives in minutes if it is needed, you can't ask for more than that, but..that help should show up prepared for anything,my question is this what does running and jumping have to do with being able too hit a 6" circle 100 yards away with a rifle???? oh fyi 100 yards is exactly 1/2 a block

4/05/2009 12:22:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY J-FED!

I DON'T HAVE TO BE IN SHAPE TO BE KILLED!

WHY DO I HAVE TO BE IN SHAPE TO FIGHT BACK ON AN EQUAL BASIS?

Is it your intent to kill off the Officers unable for whatever reason to pass your silly little test by mandating that we be incapable of meeting superior firepower?

Is it because we weren't taught to run and leave a fallen Officer behind (Joe Airhart R.I.P.)

I understand that this concept is new to you, but we run to the sound of gunfire, and Officers calling for help, not away from it.

I might not get there as fast as I used to,(due to a previous IOD) but I guarantee that I'm coming.

I'm not mandated to pass your silly little test to work the street, or be a target to these thugs.

I just have to pass it if I want to have a fair chance at defending myself and my brother officers.

Typical FBI Logic...

Grow a Set huh?

4/05/2009 12:27:00 PM  
Blogger LATHROP ONE said...

When mine was taken at the hands of a shit head in Abla,many of you stepped up for me and I thank you.
To show my appreciation, my gun safes are avaliable to you 24/7. you know where Im at and you know how to contact me. If I could donate my arsenal to you Id do it in a heartbeat.(and im damn fond of my arsenal) At least then Id know you have something that would protect you.

Im going off on a limb but Screw Daley and his Anti Gun bullshit.Its clear this Little Fat Greasy Bastard doesnt care about you. Know that there are some people out here that got your back FOR REAL. Just say the word and youre welcome to what I have.

4/05/2009 12:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weiss should save his fitness requirements for specialized units like TRU...

but he wont deny fat clout baby's their spots.

Putting the average copper at risk because of it just isnt cool.

4/05/2009 12:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry, sad but true, those officers were all pretty much ambushed, doesn't matter if they were carrying RPG's.

4/05/2009 07:47:00 AM
_________________________________

What the hell type of comparison are you trying to make here? They were ambushed, so no need to be better armed and equipped?

Are you a cop, or a nitwit?

4/05/2009 12:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
If you need firepower call your Aldercreature. They can carry weapons without any training and the Mayor does not seem to care

4/05/2009 04:10:00 AM

That is true eddie burke has 6 armed cpd valets,remove them now he carries a gun! That would save us $900,000 per year,that would buy a lot of new cars and weapons!

4/05/2009 12:41:00 PM  
Anonymous RD said...

You guys can't carry rifles or shotguns?
That's crazy!

Even in my liberal town, we carry them.

4/05/2009 12:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What can the citizens who want you to have these tool's in your aresnal do to help?

4/05/2009 01:53:00 AM

VOTE DALEY OUT!

4/05/2009 12:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC, this one is off topic, and a bit of a stretch about safety, BUT...last night in 019/023, Zone 2 went down at about 2000 hours. We switched to a citywide, then back to the zone, THEN back to the citywide for the remainder of the tour. It's a good thing nothing major was happening at the time. I can't imagine if something was going on and the zone went out, let alone what happened in Pittsburgh, or even Binghamton. How many times has this happened in recent weeks?

4/05/2009 01:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

close quarters, armed assailant, shots fired, urban setting...

choice???

Give me the Remington or the Ithaca (sp?) shotgun with 00 buck!

Open field, longer range, 100m or over I'll take the rifle with a scope.

Does a craftsman use a phillips screwdriver when a standard screw is the fastener? or

Does the fireman use only one type of nozzel on every fire?

Some day common sense must prevail in this department. When that day comes the members will know it and follow accordingly, loyally and professionally. Leadership is the greatest boost to morale.

It's what we lack from the mayor and the superintendent. Lies and deception undermind the fabric of our policing community. It begins at the top and follows the bosses in a downward flow. How can the rank and file perform when there is no respect for the person/s in charge?

If any officer is "fit" to be trained to carry and use a semi-automatic weapon than that same officer is able to be trained to use and carry a rifle.

Why wouldn't the same apply?
Why would any officer in the CPD have to run one mile with a rifle?
I'm serious, maybe I don't understand. If a suspect is in flight I really don't think I'm going to chase him / her one mile.
Check the case histories of all police shootings. They are availiable. I recall being taught that "most" shootings in an urban setting with an officer involved occur at 10 meters or less and take 3-7 seconds to complete. Did this change since I've been taught this?
The Empty Cylinder

4/05/2009 01:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are an expendable resource to the Mayor and JPUD. They would rather have the criminal who infests our city feel non-threatened than keep us and law abiding citizens feel safe. Just sit back this summer and let the bodies stack up until they start giving us the respect and tools we need to do our jobs.

4/05/2009 02:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

nicely put 4/05/2009 12:19:00 AM

couldnt have said it better myself

4/05/2009 02:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Blue Flu anyone??? sorry I forgot we have suckasses that wont even attend an informational picket... suckasses that wont stop generating revenue... suckasses that wont stop kissing ass to make their own situation better... we have no unity... this department is a joke!

4/05/2009 12:25:00 AM

It sounds like you are referring to the 3rd watch 1106 team. Not one of them showed up on Thursday. But they can sure write killer paper on a DOPW, and the occasional gambler.

4/05/2009 02:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bet if the IOC wanted us to carry M4s, they would be mandated tomorrow!

4/05/2009 02:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:19

Please Quit or retire! Shots fired in a school and you will call it in and wait for SWAT because your kid isn't in there. You sir are a pussy and coward. It is one thing to slow down in this anti-police climate and be reactive instead of pro-active, but good god to actually plan on taking no action when kids are being killed, pathetic. I can only hope you are not a police officer.

4/05/2009 02:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How can the CPD Leadership require a Power -Test in order for an officer to be armed with a rifle? If an officer is working Full-Duty, isn't he expected to be able to perform all necessary police functions? Therefore, if an officer can't pass the Rifle Power Test, shouldn't he technically be put on light duty or medical? Once again, a brilliant solution to a non-existant problem, by our Geniuses at Headquarters and City Hall.

4/05/2009 02:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Instead of having our Tact teams running around in Blue-Jeans and looking like thug-gang-bangers, the Department should have made the Tact. Units true Tactical Units, like other big Cities have. They should wear military-type fatigues, be in good shape, clean-cut, and have a Military bearing, instead of looking like something out a Starsky and Hutch rerun. This place is a true comedy of errors lately, and it's due mostly to the dilusional Shortshanks

4/05/2009 02:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

But how can Weis focus on keeping officers safe when keeping Crump-Hales and Daley happy is taking up all this time. Damn!

4/05/2009 02:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME (HOPEFULLY NOT ) THAT IT HAPPENS HERE.

4/05/2009 04:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It will never happen. Remember Weis let Det. Airheart die bleeding in a room, because he refused to let anybody go in there and refused to let the snipers take out the bad guy. Whem will you people realize this!

***************

Jackass, it was well before J-pud's time.

4/05/2009 04:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the COWARD who said fuck em they ain't my kids. SEEK EMPLOYMENT ELSEWHERE. you are not the Police you aren't even a Man.

I am posterboy for depolicing,
hell, I was an hour late one day proffered my TD slip to WC he said don't worry go get a pinch I told him take the slip. But rest assured if the balloon goes up I am busting my ass to get to scene to help. Next to fellow Coppers, kids are a close second.

4/05/2009 05:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC, this one is off topic, and a bit of a stretch about safety, BUT...last night in 019/023, Zone 2 went down at about 2000 hours. We switched to a citywide, then back to the zone, THEN back to the citywide for the remainder of the tour. It's a good thing nothing major was happening at the time. I can't imagine if something was going on and the zone went out, let alone what happened in Pittsburgh, or even Binghamton. How many times has this happened in recent weeks?
________________________________
The power was surging in Area three and it kept kicking the generators on and off and the lights in the station were flickering on and off. It caused the repeater tower to go out, thats why the switch to citywide was necessary. Also, had to turn off all the computers in the station because of the power surges. Com ed came out about 40 minutes later.

4/05/2009 05:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"This is also a wake up call for citizens...when you are in a work place when an active shooter enters, having access to some kind of firearm is a matter of life or death."

--4/05/2009 08:37:00 AM

People have been pretty much conditioned that someone with a gun is invincible; that the weapon emits death rays in all directions. This is not the case. The shooter can only look in one direction at a time and point that thing in one direction at a time.

He'll have a much harder time of doing a "mass shooting" even in a disarmed society if, instead of sitting there like stationary targets, everyone is throwing chairs and discharging fire extinguishers and throwing their hot coffee in his face and tackling him and riding on his back with their fingers jammed into his eye sockets and slashing him with pocket knives. Plain old Buck 110 or even a Stanley knife'll give you about 800 stitches worth in a few determined moves. People tend to stop and stare in wonder when suddenly confronted with the sight of their own insides.

Play dead, let him go by you, and then STAB HIM IN THE BACK. Yes! No knife? Throw a jacket or book bag over his head. Oops. Can't see...big problem.

If you know anything about guns, you'll realize that the shooter is completely vulnerable while changing magazines...everyone in the room sit on him.

Deal with it, asshole. Play out that "Natural Born Killa" DVD in your Zoloft-filled head while 15 people are doing their best to tear you limb from limb. "Hold his arms while I jam this pencil into his neck!" You betcha.

God-damned inadequate, screwed-up, never-get-out-of-the-house jagoffs, sitting at the computer pumping themselves full of massacre stuff and taking pictures of themselves snarling and waving guns at their own digital camera; always the hair gel and the black fingerless gloves, it seems.

C'mon. How often did this stuff used to happen? At least Howard Unruh (Newark, 1949) was a genuine disturbed combat veteran. Today, it's one silly-ass Internet-created bang-bang-bang copycat after another. They have gotten downright annoying, and I say we make them bleed.

As I saw of the Columbine shootings, the best-equipped police in the world were out there duck-walking up to the building behind an armored car, "taking positions," "securing the scene" -- while shots kept ringing out from inside. I don't think police went into the Binghamton scene for five hours.

Citizens are going to have to get it through their heads that they are very likely to be ON THEIR OWN in that room -- the police will be outside somewhere in a "command van," studying satellite imagery and fidgeting with their web gear.

Things seem to have reached a tipping point in that direction; not like when two policemen dealt with Charles Whitman by going up that tower and, well, killing him.

"But someone might get hurt."

Hey. EVERYONE is going to be KILLED.

DO SOMETHING!

DO SOMETHING!

DO SOMETHING!

Do anything you can to get out of there; hurl desks through windows, set off fire alarm-equipped doors, whatever. If you can't escape, turn and fight for your lives with anything you can lay your hands on.

He can't get all of you unless you all just sit there.

4/05/2009 05:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To any trolls out there please realize that the person who posted at 4/05/2009 12:19:00 AM (if really the police) speaks for himself and not the rest of us

4/05/2009 06:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Instead of having our Tact teams running around in Blue-Jeans and looking like thug-gang-bangers, the Department should have made the Tact. Units true Tactical Units, like other big Cities have. They should wear military-type fatigues, be in good shape, clean-cut, and have a Military bearing, instead of looking like something out a Starsky and Hutch rerun.
Yeah, and not only that they should limit non policing jobs ( like reports and most non violent disturbance calls) and force the mutts on the watch to go out and actively police, writing tickets and making arrests instead of hanging around the district all night, staying down on half hour jobs for an hour, and running away from active policing.

4/05/2009 06:25:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Instead of having our Tact teams running around in Blue-Jeans and looking like thug-gang-bangers, the Department should have made the Tact. Units true Tactical Units, like other big Cities have. They should wear military-type fatigues, be in good shape, clean-cut, and have a Military bearing, instead of looking like something out a Starsky and Hutch rerun. This place is a true comedy of errors lately, and it's due mostly to the dilusional Shortshanks

4/05/2009 02:45:00 PM

THANK YOU. When I saw on television some of the "police officers" at the So Side parade I was appalled. Obviously they were filling in from some other unit, because the only thing about them that was presentable was their uniform. Otherwise they looked like they needed a shave, bath and haircut.

Tubbs and Crockett would be an improvement! Police officers should look like police officers. The guys I saw looked like actors.

Just a citizen.

4/05/2009 06:35:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am over 55 and have been shooting variants of the AR15 for over 20 years. I am more than willing to go buy my own but I do have a sore knee. Not a problem in most circumstances but definitely a problem after about a mile run.

But give me that M4 and I can knock a buzzard off a shit wagon at 220 yards on my worst day.

That also happens to be the length of the average city block, 660 feet. That is a shot I would not be likely to take in the city.

4/05/2009 06:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the shit hits the fan here like in Pittsburgh we will have quite a long wait for someone with a rifle to show up. Better to call a suburb for help.

Even if you are a block away you are still well within the kill zone of an AK47.

4/05/2009 06:56:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Okay, I can't pass the power test because I'm too old and fat. But I am a Viet Nam combat vet. I was trained by the military to shoot a rifle. I have experienced large groups of people shooting at me. I know how I will react in a combat situation. I can still out shoot most people with a rifle and in combat I do no not shake and quiver. Now an ex FBI agent says that I am not qualified to carry a rifle. Do we have to be able to run to keep up with J-Fed when he runs from his first fire fight.

4/05/2009 07:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

was out in joliet on saturday...megasports on rt30 selling rifles like crazy. wall to wall floor to celing rifles and shotguns

4/05/2009 07:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We need rifles not in car cameras an anti police ASAs office and a supt. who turns us over to the feds. Hay Jody when are you and your fed boys going to start enforcing immigration laws?

4/05/2009 07:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Please Quit or retire! Shots fired in a school and you will call it in and wait for SWAT because your kid isn't in there. You sir are a pussy and coward. It is one thing to slow down in this anti-police climate and be reactive instead of pro-active, but good god to actually plan on taking no action when kids are being killed, pathetic. I can only hope you are not a police officer.

4/05/2009 02:39:00 PM
Oh I am baby... and until they give me some high power armament, no way I am signing up for a suicide mission! Why? So the jagoffs can add a cop victim to their legacy? Sorry... not happenin!

4/05/2009 07:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC, this one is off topic, and a bit of a stretch about safety, BUT...last night in 019/023, Zone 2 went down at about 2000 hours. We switched to a citywide, then back to the zone, THEN back to the citywide for the remainder of the tour. It's a good thing nothing major was happening at the time. I can't imagine if something was going on and the zone went out, let alone what happened in Pittsburgh, or even Binghamton. How many times has this happened in recent weeks?

4/05/2009 01:05:00 PM
019/023... if the zone went down how could anyone tell???

4/05/2009 07:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"He is mildly retarded.

4/05/2009 07:54:00 AM"


Mildly?

4/05/2009 10:29:00 AM

MAYOR DALEY IS CLINICALLY INSANE

"Insane! I mean, heh heh, insane. That's insane, I mean, it's, your're the, you're talking about, heh heh. You're the media, you're paid to report that. Paid lots of money to report that. Lots of money. There's a bad economy now, I mean, the economy." (continues, as The Men In White Coats ease him gently down the hall -- unfortunately towards his office...)

4/05/2009 08:02:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

12:19 is right on! Let the yups and bull shit revs protect their own damn kids! I am done!

4/05/2009 08:10:00 PM  
Blogger LATHROP ONE said...

Shots fired at a school? My kid's not in there? I call for SWAT and secure the perimeter..... On view robbery?... be your own hero... I am!

4/05/2009 12:19:00 AM

With all due respect....YOU are a pussy and a WASTE OF A BADGE. I have one school,2 day care centers and a Boys and Girls club in my chunk of Chicago and TRUST AND BELIEVE you would have to call a plan just to hold me FROM going in there for those kids. What the fuck is the matter with you? Now sure you can talk all the shit you want about me NOT being the police but on my WORST DAY Im 10 times the MAN you purport yourself to be. Where do I buy the tickets to get in line to bitchslap this guy?

4/05/2009 08:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the fbi shootout in florida and the la bank robbery shooting was not enough to motivate someone to do something.

I think you should read up on the FL fbi shootout. It was more about really stupid things the feds did than them being under gunned. The LA bank robbery is more on point.


One common denominator in Oakland (4 slain officers) and Pittsburgh (3 slain officers): a Kalashnikov AK-47.

At least get the facts right. The first two oakland cops were shot with a handgun, the second two with an SKS. Could just as easily have been a hunting rifle. In any case, none of the oakland cops were killed with an AK-47.


While ninety-nine percent of police officers can NOT afford a Heckler & Koch MP-5 with all the bells and whistles, I'll buy my own.

An MP5 is a 9mm sub gun. Not going to do much more for you than your current sidearm will as far as knockdown power and range.

4/05/2009 08:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch what happens the first time a copper shoots an armed offender with a rifle and the high velocity round travels through the intended target striking an unintended target causing injury or death.

Can you say aggravated battery and/or manslaughter indictment?

Can you say 15-20 years in a cell with John Herman?

Do you really believe this would not happen? Do you still think an on-duty rifle is cool?

Unless this department puts indemnification back into the contract, I would highly recommend that no officer on this department ever carry a rifle on-duty.

When you cut that first $50,000 check for your defense lawyer, remember it should be of no surprise. You were warned.

4/05/2009 08:41:00 PM  
Blogger The Song Remains The Same said...

Anonymous said...
Instead of having our Tact teams running around in Blue-Jeans and looking like thug-gang-bangers, the Department should have made the Tact. Units true Tactical Units, like other big Cities have. They should wear military-type fatigues, be in good shape, clean-cut, and have a Military bearing, instead of looking like something out a Starsky and Hutch rerun. This place is a true comedy of errors lately, and it's due mostly to the dilusional Shortshanks

4/05/2009 02:45:00 PM

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I'm all for it. And, while we're at it, let the tact teams be the POLICE and not hold them to the bullshit numbers game, where they feel they have to come in with at least one arrest aday, so at crunch time, they're locking up a guy with 1 gram of weed to keep the bosses at bay. But this will never happen because tact is all a numbers game. Sad!

4/05/2009 08:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I went to the Harvey range the other day. The 2 Major tools (Sgt there was GREAT and all the other guys) were 40lbs overweight. How are THEY teaching the carbine /shotgun classes? More double standard merit bullshit from the CITY!

4/05/2009 08:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The M4 would be a great addition to the street but ask any soldier and he will tell you that to properly deploy that weapon in this urban street environment you need more than mere hours or days of training. To use it properly it must be second nature. This is the type of training our department is not going to give everyone (too much money and too time consuming). And let's get something straight... according to Pittsburgh PD those officers were responding to a Domestic between a mother and her son. At no time were weapons mentioned. The first two officers were AMBUSHED. The mother (complainant) answered the door and junior shot them from behind her in the house. They had no chance. This piece of shit assassinated them and took them from their families. This could happen to any of us...M4 or not.

4/05/2009 08:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For once I AGREE with the city.Just look around your roll call room and tell me you'd like to see them armed with heavy firepower.The city just needs to hire responsible people THEN arm them.Count former housemouses,drunks who don't show up on time,and sons of DEPUTY'S who have tell their "west side stories" then go play on the internet for 3 hrs.We are in such disarray,please just do what you are supposed to,STAY WHERE you're suppose to,and back each other up.It is very simple.

4/05/2009 09:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I bet if the IOC wanted us to carry M4s, they would be mandated tomorrow!

4/05/2009 02:38:00 PM

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Ummm actually thats why they purchased them. I belive I read somewhere thats one of the requirements from the IOC. IT makes sense to me, they spend all the money, train a few of you guys, and write up orders to show they did it ....butttttt never have the intention of letting you coppers have them on the street.

I just dont understand !

I was told by a pretty good alderman that the mayor only cares about getting the olympics... THATS IT !!!!!. I know what you guys say about the Alder-creatures but this guy fights the mayor on pretty much EVERYTHING. He's one the few on the outside. about 9 of them to be exact.

Daley wants another star on the Chicago Flagg !!!!

Like a few other private citizen-hostages on this blogg said . . . you guys are more then welcome to borrow a shotgun from me if something big is going on.

I hope something changes VERY soon. When the scumbags loose fear and respect of the police its open season.

GOD BLESS THE POLICE
THANK YOU
Unarmed-city-worker-target

4/05/2009 09:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My wife already knows, in the worst case scenario, she is to make a point of making certain that Daley is not welcome at my funeral. Save the crocodile BS for the next "innocent" CPS student.

4/05/2009 09:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to 04/05/2009 11:47 a.m. Yea Jagoff....If the guys kid ain't in there wait for the appropriate back-up and firepower. How would you know what the fucks waiting for you inside. Oh.....I forgot you're John Wayne. Well listen here pilgrim....even John Wayne would never wade into a pool of shit without the right firepower and thats why he always came out smelling like a rose. So keep your sanctimoniuos crap to yourself.When this dept outfits me with the proper firepower to do my job effectively I'll act like John Wayne.....till then I'll be the pussy they want me to be and tell you to go fuck yourself!

4/05/2009 10:39:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It will never happen. Remember Weis let Det. Airheart die bleeding in a room, because he refused to let anybody go in there and refused to let the snipers take out the bad guy. Whem will you people realize this!

***************

Jackass, it was well before J-pud's time.

4/05/2009 04:45:00 PM

Hey, you insulting fuck, well before J-FED's stint in Chicago as a FED or as the....well, you know his job title, I just cannot bring myself to write it because he is a total fucking waste.

Were you even aware that Jody was here as a FED? But regardless, I would like to put it to rest. Was he in charge of the Airhart/Salley scene or not? He is a waste either way, but would someone who knows enlighten me? Thanks.

4/05/2009 11:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let me tell you hair gels something... 12:19 couldnt be more right on! I work in 016... Im on the sacred 2nd watch so you can probably guess that I have done my time... I have seen more shit, shot more bad guys, and have forgot more about police work than most of you kids will ever know... I have seen administrations come and go... i have seen probably in upwards of a dozen superintendents... My duties include checks at Garvey, Epstein, and I even pop into St Julians every day... I was a door gunner on a gun ship in Vietnam and served two tours... If you think for one split second I would go toe to toe with a, let alone many, crazy lunatics wielding an assault rifle with the pea shooter this city requires me to carry you must be sick! To go into a Columbine situation with 30 or 40 rounds of 9 mm or even .45 ammunition and a level II vest would certainly be a suicide mission! I would help any way I could, but I am NOT going to be a martyr! Sorry, but neither this city, nor its citizens have given me a reason to walk into a snake pit! If I had a high powered rifle to level the playing field... No question about it! But I have a wife, children and several grand children... For the city, or any hair gel mother fucker to expect me to walk into an assasination is the most absurd thing I have heard! Now I have seen the cowboy comments on this blog calling 12:19 a coward, but I say he is the only one that makes any sense.. I guess the LA guys who took cover behind a tree or car or curb that didnt advance on the military assault were cowards too? To those I say you obviously havent done shit in your life... You havent been in a fight or flight situation... Bottom line is school or factory, school or convenient store, school or Lane Bryant store I WILL NOT SIGN MY DEATH CERTIFICATE! Blame the nut job gunman, not me! It is easy to Monday morning quarterback, but until you are in the situation, SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! 1st and 16th... (oh, and a pension) nothing more, nothing less!

4/05/2009 11:52:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The M4 would be a great addition to the street but ask any soldier and he will tell you that to properly deploy that weapon in this urban street environment you need more than mere hours or days of training. To use it properly it must be second nature. This is the type of training our department is not going to give everyone (too much money and too time consuming). And let's get something straight... according to Pittsburgh PD those officers were responding to a Domestic between a mother and her son. At no time were weapons mentioned. The first two officers were AMBUSHED. The mother (complainant) answered the door and junior shot them from behind her in the house. They had no chance. This piece of shit assassinated them and took them from their families. This could happen to any of us...M4 or not.

4/05/2009 08:58:00 PM

True, it doesn't matter if you work in 19 or 7, treat every job like someone is planning on killing you. Establish a tactical approach for every situation. Sometimes you may go a long time without a job. Do not drop your guard. Do not forget everyone knows who you are and you take longer to learn who someone else is.

4/06/2009 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch what happens the first time a copper shoots an armed offender with a rifle and the high velocity round travels through the intended target striking an unintended target causing injury or death.

Can you say aggravated battery and/or manslaughter indictment?

Can you say 15-20 years in a cell with John Herman?

Do you really believe this would not happen? Do you still think an on-duty rifle is cool?

Unless this department puts indemnification back into the contract, I would highly recommend that no officer on this department ever carry a rifle on-duty.

When you cut that first $50,000 check for your defense lawyer, remember it should be of no surprise. You were warned.

4/05/2009 08:41:00 PM


That's the same kind of thinking that led to Chicago not allowing .357 magnum loads in .357 revolvers, and issuing that crap 9mm 147gr subsonic instead of the much more effective 115 +p+ that the ISP used in the same era.

Depending on the load, 5.56mm bullets tumble pretty well in a human body, and AFAIK, the regulation load is a frangible bullet (I have issues with that due to things like effectiveness when shooting through autoglass, but that's besides the point). I'd be considerably more worried about outright misses than overpenetration.

We're talking about a 55-62gr bullet here, not a 145-175gr 7.62x54mm bullet. A frangible 5.56mm bullet that punches through a human torso is probably either going to tumble and not have much energy left, or fragment when it hits bone.

4/06/2009 12:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh.....I forgot you're John Wayne.
4/05/2009 10:39:00 PM

No, Im just a cop. There are inherent dangers that come with this job that will always be there. Facing an armed offender is one of them. Appropriate backup in a school shooting is your fellow officers on scene. Having a rifle would be nice, but that is no excuse for not trying. In a majority of the school shootings, your sidearm could have saved lives. Why would you want to sit and wait 20 minutes with 12:19 for SWAT while someone reloads repeatedly and continues to kill children? If your answer is because you dont want to get hurt then you have not thought this career path through very well. Nobody wants to get hurt or killed in the performance of their duties, but it is a very real possibility that should have been accepted when you took the job. There is nothing sanctimonious about what I posted, its reality. In case nobody told you, being a cop is a dangerous job with responsibilities. Far too often it seems people take this job without understanding (or accepting) the risks.
And I am pretty sure John Wayne would call 12:19 (and anyone with him) a coward.

4/06/2009 01:41:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That .223 round is highly unlikely to pass through a person and keep going to get someone else. the round is designed to tumble when it hits something like a person.

The original AR15 by Armalite was designed to both tumble and fragment when it hit a person. The first generation woud cause explosive type wounds. Soldiers complained n the jungle that the round would tumble off axis and go astray when it hit a leaf or branch or some vegetation, they had plenty of that in Vietnam.

The .30 cal round will keep on going more or less when it hits something.

Be extremely cautious of going against an individual with an AK47, that is deadly out to several hundred yards. That is a couple of city blocks.

They also go right through the average wall of a home and standard hollow cinder blocks.

I have the tape of the North Hollywood CA bank robbery, the offenders had fully automatic weapons firing .30 cal ammo. Officers were shot through their squad cars, sometimes through several cars.

The thing that saved the day there was officers going into a nearby gun store and commandeering some rifles and ammo. Of course we have no such gun stores here.

4/06/2009 07:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And let's get something straight... according to Pittsburgh PD those officers were responding to a Domestic between a mother and her son. At no time were weapons mentioned. The first two officers were AMBUSHED. The mother (complainant) answered the door and junior shot them from behind her in the house. They had no chance. This piece of shit assassinated them and took them from their families. This could happen to any of us...M4 or not.

And trying to use this situation, or the Oakland murders as a reason to get carbines is going to fail, as it should. Carbines would have made zero difference in both cases, even if you accept the absurd premise that motorcycle cops would be issued carbines.

You weaken your case when you use these cases as reasons to have carbines because anyone with half a brain can figure out the reality of these particular cases. Shotguns and carbines are good ideas. CPD squads ought to have them. make the case right or you will lose it. Trying to use fellow dead cops for propaganda is demeaning to them.

4/06/2009 08:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The M4 would be a great addition to the street but ask any soldier and he will tell you that to properly deploy that weapon in this urban street environment you need more than mere hours or days of training. To use it properly it must be second nature. This is the type of training our department is not going to give everyone (too much money and too time consuming). And let's get something straight... according to Pittsburgh PD those officers were responding to a Domestic between a mother and her son. At no time were weapons mentioned. The first two officers were AMBUSHED. The mother (complainant) answered the door and junior shot them from behind her in the house. They had no chance. This piece of shit assassinated them and took them from their families. This could happen to any of us...M4 or not.

4/05/2009 08:58:00 PM

How the fuck do you know? where you there? at least they would have had a chance. Maybe one of them could have had his at the ready position and droped him. You think you are a tactical expert but guess what no one is idiot...

4/06/2009 08:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'mon. How often did this stuff used to happen? At least Howard Unruh (Newark, 1949) was a genuine disturbed combat veteran. Today, it's one silly-ass Internet-created bang-bang-bang copycat after another. They have gotten downright annoying, and I say we make them bleed.


Where sir may I buy you a fat steak dinner? I love the way you think!

4/06/2009 08:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Officer Irma Ruiz, I didn't know her, she died the year i came on the job. When that idiot said he/she wouldn't go into a school, i immediately thought of that Picture of Officer Ruiz and her smile, but i thought with all this venting at that idiot, let's give a good thought for Officer Ruiz, and thank god there are more like her out there than that putz.

4/06/2009 08:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And I am pretty sure John Wayne would call 12:19 (and anyone with him) a coward.

4/06/2009 01:41:00 AM

And thats being extremely polite about it.I wonder how that prick would feel if the shooting was in his kids school and I didnt do anything because "my kid wasnt in there". I can see it now....Gee Officer BALL-LESS, Im sorry your kid got SHREDDED by an AK-47 today in the lunch line but the reason he/she did was because well Im a PUSSY and dont want to get hurt so I waited ,hiding behind a tree,like a good JFED asskisser,for SWAT and HBT. They had a little trouble getting the truck started and were a little late but they eventually got there. By the time they arrived it was all over so we finished our lattes and scratched out a case report and left. Ill BET youre one of the typical "new breed" of cop that goes the OTHER way from a 10-1 so as not to have to do anything. "BITCH" barely scratches the surface of the contempt I feel towards you.Excuse me while I spit out the bile you continually cause to rise in my throat. And Ill BET you have a glossy pic of Burger Queen or Sodini pasted in your locker as reminders of what you WILL become if you havent already.

4/06/2009 09:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If we had proper Video Cameras and door swipe locks like Professional Police Buildings, in Districts and Areas, we would have several hundred officers out on the Street, not playing Hall Monitors, 24-7, on all watches over the City, cause of a 14 yr. old. Great brain-power bosses. Watching you Geniuses at work is Highly Stimulating to a mere dummy like me.

4/06/2009 09:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Forget the tahoes, the supt. just placed orders for these 2 urban warfare cars!

http://www.cloudster.com/RealHardware/Batmobile66/bat31.jpg

4/06/2009 09:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! 1st and 16th... (oh, and a pension) nothing more, nothing less!

4/05/2009 11:52:00 PM

words we ALL need to start living by!!!!

4/06/2009 11:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

problem is not 12:19... problem is cowboy hair gels that think they are going to solve all the problems because they are the messiah! Take it from an old timer... the hair gels are ruining this department. No unity, no comraderie, no sense of loyalty. No, hair gels are too worried about having to go to midnights, or getting bounced off their car, or pissing off the WC... Hair gel keeps coming in with a fistful of tickets, coming in with BS arrests to satisfy the numbers game, and keep the bosses happy all for selfish reasons. Hair gel is collectively running this department into the ground! Take a bow, hair gels... you are the problem!!!

4/06/2009 11:36:00 AM  
Anonymous TQ said...

"COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH- BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY" MARION MORRISON(AKA JOHN WAYNE)

4/06/2009 11:52:00 AM  
Blogger Elm Creek Smith said...

Anonymous said...
Watch what happens the first time a copper shoots an armed offender with a rifle and the high velocity round travels through the intended target striking an unintended target causing injury or death.

Can you say aggravated battery and/or manslaughter indictment?

Can you say 15-20 years in a cell with John Herman?

Do you really believe this would not happen? Do you still think an on-duty rifle is cool?

Unless this department puts indemnification back into the contract, I would highly recommend that no officer on this department ever carry a rifle on-duty.

When you cut that first $50,000 check for your defense lawyer, remember it should be of no surprise. You were warned.

4/05/2009 08:41:00 PM

If the right ammo is selected for the 5.56x45 NATO/.223 Remington, this scenario (overpenetration) won't happen. It's not like you're shooting a 7.62x51 NATO/.308 Winchester with a 150 grain bullet. Most departments using ARs use light, expanding bullets which will disintegrate or expand right d@&* now. What ammunition is avail for the carbines in CPD?

The Tulsa Police Department has issued shotguns for as long as I remember. They authorized privately-owned ARs provided the officer could qualify and the rifle was approved by the marksmanship unit. Recently, they started providing ARs to officers who completed the training class. My next door neighbor carries both in his patrol car - the proper tool for the situation.

I'm not a police officer and not in Chicago, but you guys are getting a raw deal, financially and equipment-wise.

Hope is not a plan; not all change is good.

ECS

4/06/2009 01:14:00 PM  
Blogger Elm Creek Smith said...

Depending on the load, 5.56mm bullets tumble pretty well in a human body, and AFAIK, the regulation load is a frangible bullet (I have issues with that due to things like effectiveness when shooting through autoglass, but that's besides the point). I'd be considerably more worried about outright misses than overpenetration.

We're talking about a 55-62gr bullet here, not a 145-175gr 7.62x54mm bullet. A frangible 5.56mm bullet that punches through a human torso is probably either going to tumble and not have much energy left, or fragment when it hits bone.

4/06/2009 12:39:00 AM

----

Double-tap glass with a 5.56. Didn't see this before I posted.

ECS

4/06/2009 01:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We're talking about a 55-62gr bullet here, not a 145-175gr 7.62x54mm bullet. A frangible 5.56mm bullet that punches through a human torso is probably either going to tumble and not have much energy left, or fragment when it hits bone.

4/06/2009 12:39:00 AM

What about the distance traveled in the case of a miss? More importantly the velocity the bullet maintains at long distances.

There is significantly more danger to bystandards in a situation where numerous rounds are fired at a moving offender from the M4. Don't forget that it is highly probable that most of those bystandards would be assisting policemen.

The vast majority of PO's get no firearm training outside the academy and the academy only trains the PO to pass a course by taking 5 seconds to fire one round at a paper target. The city purposefully leaves out that training to maintain a police force that doesn't immediately respond with deadly force when faced with deadly force. Think of all the dangerous situations EVERY DAY where officers would have been justified and probably would have been safer if they shot an armed offender instead of chasing him.

The first time this M4 is used and a bystandard is unintentionally injured by a ricochet, a missed shot, or an overpenetration, what do you think is going to happen to that PO?

You can't possibly think that the city and state's attorney are going to stand by that officer. When its all said and done that officer is going to wish he never heard of the Chicago Police Department, let alone the M4.

There might be a department out there that can effectively use an M4 in every patrol car. This isn't that department.

4/06/2009 02:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Watch what happens the first time a copper shoots an armed offender with a rifle and the high velocity round travels through the intended target striking an unintended target causing injury or death.

Can you say aggravated battery and/or manslaughter indictment?

Can you say 15-20 years in a cell with John Herman?

Do you really believe this would not happen? Do you still think an on-duty rifle is cool?

Unless this department puts indemnification back into the contract, I would highly recommend that no officer on this department ever carry a rifle on-duty.

When you cut that first $50,000 check for your defense lawyer, remember it should be of no surprise. You were warned.

___________________________

Hey dipshit you obviously know nothing about the 5.56mm NAto round we must carry in our AR-15. First off IT'S NOT AN M4 RETARD. IT's an AR-15 so lets get that straight. An M4 has fully auto capabilities and the only unit with an M4 is the Marine Unit and the SWAT team.

Furthurmore a 5.56 round has a much much less chance of overpenatration when striking the target then your handgun ammo. The round is designed to tumble and not exit the body in a medium such as a human or an animal. Your 9mm. 40 or 45 has a much much more chance of overpenatrating a target and going on to target 2 behind it then the 5.56 Nato round we are required to carry in our AR-15. SO KEEP YOUR KNOWNOTHING MOUTH SHUT AND FIND A DESK TO SIT BEHIND.

Got to love people with zero experience or facts giving advice

4/06/2009 04:05:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Scc,



Can we please inform our officers that the rifle we are allowed to carry is an AR-15/carbine not an M4. You would think one would want to know about something that would only be a beneficial tool in their arsenal. An M4 is a fully auto version of the Ar-15/carbine.

4/06/2009 04:07:00 PM  
Blogger Elm Creek Smith said...

Here's a link to the story that the Supreme Court turned down Mumia Al-Jamal's request for a new trial in the murder of Philadelphia police officer Daniel Faulkner in 1981. The basis of the request was that there were no blacks on his jury, not that he was innocent. The 3rd US Circuit Court of Appeals held that the death penalty was invalid, but let the conviction stand. The State of Pennsylvania is appealing the death penalty separately.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iklJiwgcMTe_JfL-f5oslXcQjdqgD97D0QO80

Mumia Al-Jamal whose real name escapes me at the moment stood over Officer Daniel Faulkner and shot him twice in the face according to witnesses. Hollywood "celebrities" such as Ed Asner have adopted this cop killer's cause as their own. This turns my stomach, and I can't post anymore right now.

ECS

4/06/2009 04:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Pork Master General said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh.....I forgot you're John Wayne.
4/05/2009 10:39:00 PM

No, Im just a cop. There are inherent dangers that come with this job that will always be there. Facing an armed offender is one of them. Appropriate backup in a school shooting is your fellow officers on scene. Having a rifle would be nice, but that is no excuse for not trying. In a majority of the school shootings, your sidearm could have saved lives. Why would you want to sit and wait 20 minutes with 12:19 for SWAT while someone reloads repeatedly and continues to kill children? If your answer is because you don't want to get hurt then you have not thought this career path through very well. Nobody wants to get hurt or killed in the performance of their duties, but it is a very real possibility that should have been accepted when you took the job. There is nothing sanctimonious about what I posted, its reality. In case nobody told you, being a cop is a dangerous job with responsibilities. Far too often it seems people take this job without understanding (or accepting) the risks.
And I am pretty sure John Wayne would call 12:19 (and anyone with him) a coward.

Response....
To think you actually believe that tripe you wrote. The reality is, it is a "risk" to drive down the street, not walk into a death trap, when you know what is waiting for you. That's called "stupidity".
You know, it is not often that I am at a loss for words, but you sir, have done it...Bravo...

I pity the officer who has to explain to your wife that it was just one of the "risks" of the job, going into a situation under gunned, undermanned, etc...

I'm sure she will understand...after all, being a cop is a dangerous job with responsibilities...One of the ones that you have not thought about is going home safe and in one piece to your family.

4/06/2009 09:15:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SCC, this one is off topic, and a bit of a stretch about safety, BUT...last night in 019/023, Zone 2 went down at about 2000 hours. We switched to a citywide, then back to the zone, THEN back to the citywide for the remainder of the tour. It's a good thing nothing major was happening at the time. I can't imagine if something was going on and the zone went out, let alone what happened in Pittsburgh, or even Binghamton. How many times has this happened in recent weeks?

4/05/2009 01:05:00 PM
019/023... if the zone went down how could anyone tell???

We could hear each-other, but the dispatchers couldn't communicate with us. They had to tell us to switch over via PDT, and to try to get a hold of the cars that didn't have PDT's so they could switch too.

4/06/2009 11:53:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ECS at 4:48 PM

Wesley COOK, alias Mumia ABU-JAMAL.

4/07/2009 01:40:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

4/06/2009 09:15:00 PM

You can call it what ever you want but its still the truth.

I have and never will advocate acting reckless and stupid with your life. But an effort has to be made in the scenario you described and if its unsuccessful, there is nothing wrong with holding a position or making a tactical retreat if needed. Trying does not mean dying.

So save your pity and just be glad that not everyone shares your "its not my kid" philosophy so if it does happen to be your kid in there, someone will try.

4/07/2009 02:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The writing is on the wall with the horrible events that has occurred over the past few weeks. A handgun against an assault rifle is like bringing a knife to a gun fight.

4/05/2009 12:09:00 AM


Actually it is like bringing a handgun to a war. When you are that outgunned you frequently get dead. All we can do in that situation is retreat to safe cover.

4/07/2009 06:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

DPMS rifles are junk.Colt 6920.

4/07/2009 08:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"COURAGE IS BEING SCARED TO DEATH- BUT SADDLING UP ANYWAY" MARION MORRISON(AKA JOHN WAYNE)

4/06/2009 11:52:00 AM


I just enlarged that and am posting it in my locker. May even put it in the squad car. Thank you.

4/07/2009 03:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I'd rather be a live coward than a dead hero" I'm enlarging that and putting it in my locker.

4/08/2009 01:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"C'mon. How often did this stuff used to happen? At least Howard Unruh (Newark, 1949) was a genuine disturbed combat veteran. Today, it's one silly-ass Internet-created bang-bang-bang copycat after another. They have gotten downright annoying, and I say we make them bleed."

"Where sir may I buy you a fat steak dinner?"

--4/06/2009 08:39:00 AM

Only at a place having sturdy steak knives with which we may defend ourselves if called upon to. (grin)

"I love the way you think!"

I don't. It is prima facie insane to have to adopt the combat-in-Fallujah policy of "have a plan to kill everyone you meet" every time you go to the grocery store, but that's the world we live in today. Always keep an eye out for A. ways out B. cover and concealment C. potential weapons to use and D. weaknesses and routes of possible attack. Catch him fumbling a reload and it could be over right there for him.

Most difficult of all is motivating the overcivilized to DO SOMETHING; hard for most to understand that It Is All Right for just plain folks to do horrible things to an active shooter, the goal being to make him stop, thereby saving innocent lives. Concern for his life is, well, very much secondary and fair/unfair goes right out the window.

Heard that the crew of (the latest) pirated American ship off Somalia has managed to strong-arm the vermin back into the ocean. Saw delightful film tonight of Merchant Marine seamen now being trained in the modern pistol; hell, at the least a tight crew for a M2 .50 BMG is what's needed. Asbestos gloves, spare barrels, and practice in changing them, along with lots of Raufoss explosive/incendiary/AP ammo. Chop the bastards to pieces while they're a long way off. Death is something they seem to grasp...time to put paid to this Third World nonsense as well. Shooting RPGs at tankers -- could cause a catastrophic blast if empty tanks weren't fully inerted.

Six times this week alone. This has gotta stop too. Undignified, unbefitting major powers.

4/09/2009 03:53:00 AM  

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