Disturbing Report
The recent police shooting in the 010 District was a very good job by the involved officers. However, a comment here brings into question Department intentions once again:
- It is being reported by some of our readers that a DNA sample was acquired from the officer discharging his weapon.
The FOP posted a letter about this when the Department first proposed collecting DNA samples from officers and advised against it. The main trouble is that your DNA sample, once collected, goes into the statewide database along with all the convicted felons and sex offenders and pretty much exists there for eternity.
In this case, it's a straightforward shooting, offenders in custody, weapon recovered, why on earth does the Department need to collect DNA? The only reason we can see for it is to set a precedent for violating not only your contractual rights, but the Rights guaranteed to each American citizen under the US Constitution.
Let's lay this out here - the Officer is a VICTIM. He was menaced with a weapon. A VICTIM being asked to provide DNA in a case that has nothing to do with biological evidence is ridiculous. We realize that being ridiculous is nothing new to the Department, but this is beyond the pale, everyday ridiculousness. As we are aware, there is no policy regarding DNA collection of officers and attempts to do so are attempts to circumvent the contractual protections your rights.
Anyone who tries to justify this by saying commenting along the lines of, "If you're innocent, you have nothing to fear" will be deleted without fail. Americans don't have to prove innocence - the State has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You might feel comfortable giving away your Constitutional Rights. We don't. And we don't want anyone else giving them away for us either.
In this case, it's a straightforward shooting, offenders in custody, weapon recovered, why on earth does the Department need to collect DNA? The only reason we can see for it is to set a precedent for violating not only your contractual rights, but the Rights guaranteed to each American citizen under the US Constitution.
Let's lay this out here - the Officer is a VICTIM. He was menaced with a weapon. A VICTIM being asked to provide DNA in a case that has nothing to do with biological evidence is ridiculous. We realize that being ridiculous is nothing new to the Department, but this is beyond the pale, everyday ridiculousness. As we are aware, there is no policy regarding DNA collection of officers and attempts to do so are attempts to circumvent the contractual protections your rights.
Anyone who tries to justify this by saying commenting along the lines of, "If you're innocent, you have nothing to fear" will be deleted without fail. Americans don't have to prove innocence - the State has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You might feel comfortable giving away your Constitutional Rights. We don't. And we don't want anyone else giving them away for us either.
Labels: dumb ideas, info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:05 AM
76 Comments:
Where was the FOP?
Can we have info on the shooting ??
If its true where was the FOP representative. SCC IS CORRECT THIS IS NOT ONLY A CONTRACTUAL RIGHT ITS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. We are now being treated with less rights than the dogs we arrest.
If they want your DNA, ask them for a hand job.
"If you're innocent, you have nothing to fear"
But SCC, Its true! Oh, wait, were the Police... Its going to get stuck in our "Second Class Citizen" ass in a heart-beat! Fuck this, I'm suing, just like pookie!
Refuse to give a sample. The only dna sampling that should be done is from an offender. There is no reason to take the officers dna.
A FUCKING MEN.
Thanks for all your help, I posted the question about pension info. All comments were helpful except one...Seems some prick thinks its better to bash a fellow officer asking for help...That's why this department has gone to shit, too many VESTED old timers that hate life. Please retire already and stop whining about us young officers trying to improve our situation. Trust me I am going to get out, cause I sure as shit dont wanna be like you...someone who didnt have the balls to do so.
From an Area 2 Detective....DON'T DO IT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!!!! I WOULD EVEN ADVISE WIPING YOUR WEAPON DOWN PRIOR TO HANDING IT OVER TO THE Crime lab F/I.
The policy is simple!!!
JUST BECAUSE YOUR THE POLICE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO GIVE UP YOUR RIGHTS. DO NOT AGREE TO SUBMIT TO ANY ALCOHOL/BREATH TESTING ADMINISTRATIVELY OR CRIMINALLY AND DONT'S EVER SUBMIT TO ANY DNA TESTING.
IF THE CPD WANTS TO PLAY BY THE RULES MAKE THEM OBTAIN A JUDICIAL WARRANT TO INVADE P.O.'s PERSONAL PRIVACY RIGHTS.
In the eye of the Fed, this is proactive Police work. We are all guilty of something or other.
Originally I thought the DNA swabbing of weapons during a police officer involved shooting only would be performed on any weapon possessed by the offender, thus negating the infamous and worn out "the cops planted the (insert weapon type here) on him" rant. But my partner and I have handled several police shootings since this order has come out and each and every time the crime lab has swabbed the OFFICER'S weapon. I may just be a lowly dumb detective but I still can't figure out the need to swab an OFFICER'S weapon for DNA if the offender(s) never touched the officer's gun. Maybe there is an ominpotent exempt who reads this blog and can enlighten me as to why this is now standard procedure. It makes no sense whatsoever to swab an officer's gun for DNA when only the officer possessed it.
I can see the need to swab an OFFENDER'S weapon found at the scene, but this nonsense of swabbing an officer's weapon is ridiculous!
Dugan, WTF?!
Warriors NEVER give up DNA samples.
I was shocked when I walked into the roomm we now use as a roll call room in 025 to find that the same room was used in a round table for a recent shooting that had occurred.
My amazament was seeing a circle of chairs surrounding a single chair. It was later learned that this tactic is currently being used on on police officers after going thru one of the most stressful times in their lives, yes a shooting. It appears the head of IPRA wants to intimidate officers during a round table.
Nice isnt it tha after a terrible thing like a shooting the IPRA boss wants to add to your pain by doing horseshit like this.
well it is not written anywhere that says you have to sit in the circle. so if it happens to you pull up a chair and make someone else sit inn the hot seat.
when you are a police officer performing your duties and a bad guy points a gun at you and you kill him, remember you are the victim. all he is , is a dead assailant.
we always go home to our famiilies, ALWAYS...
work safe and work smart
What happens if we refuse?
The way I understand it, if an exempt, who will be on scene on a police related shooting, comes up and tells you to submit it, what then?
Do you wait to the FOP rep gets there? Do you flat out refuse? Are you 30 days pending then for the refusal?
I would like to know....but trust me SCC, like you, I will not submit to it. I guess I can apply at the Wal-Mart or something.
The Chicago police department is really fucked up! The crime is out of control and closet boy Dugan does not know how to fix it.. The people in charge are so out of touch with police work, this is what you get.. They give these commanders spots because they have dirt on peolpe in the department. THE favors don't stop and the citizens pay for all the mistakes the people downtown make.. Who would want to be a CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER ANYMORE, THEY TREAT US LIKE SHIT.
I know of a shooting in 06 where they wanted a DNA sample from the PO and then wanted to put the offender and PO on the box. The Det in A/4 told the ASA to pound sand. Dont give them anything.
soon they will make us take the chip.
COPS JUST NEED TO STOP WORKING. COPS THAT THINK THEY COULD CHANGE ANYTHING ARE VERY WRONG. THE ONLY THING YOU WILL CHANGE IS THE MONEY IN THE POCKET OF THAT THUG THAT SUES YOU. REMEMBER THAT WHEN YOU TAKE TIME FOR A THUG, BECAUSE YOU THINK YOU ARE THE WORKING POLICE. GET A CLUE
THATS WHY MY PARTNER AND I DO NOTHING BUT DRINK AND WATCH DVDS
DONT give a sample....fuck em. Its a salem witch hunt against honest coppers these days. Dont buy into it by cooperating with any of this bullshit...
TO: Weis, Peterson, Dugan, Cuello, McCotter, Masters and Brust:
Check your CPD eMail for the compelling and poignant account of "SWAT" officer M.P. in another big-city police department.
Let the record reflect you received this eMail yesterday, June 16, 2009.
Due to the extremely sensitive nature of the contents, I will refrain from further comment on this blog site on my eMail to you and unidentified others. I'm certain that SCC agrees.
I await your confidential response, Supt. Weis.
(Sgt.) John Northen (Ret.)
Chicago Police Department
FARRELL RETIREMENT PARTY
For those of you who wish to attend the Retiremant Party of Capt. John Farrell at Plumbers' Hall, 1340 W. Washington Blvd. on this Friday night (6 PM - Midnight), there will be tickets available at the door.
I'd say it's time for another on line vote of confidence for JFED. When complete we can hope the media publishes the results. This time around we need to put the word out to ALL that this opinion poll is being conducted. Validity is hard to garner with a mere 1,600votes. If a survey with 9,000 votes cast is published maybe, just maybe, someone in the media will get their head out of their ass and do some real invesitgative reporting.
The state just rejected a law requiring inmates to provide DNA samples.
Imagine how many crimes could have been solved...OR PREVENTED!
but of course no one minds COPS civil rights being violated.
So go out their knock your socks of and be WARRIORS then get into a shooting and have your rights violated.
Just refuse.
The city going to try and fire you for disobeying a direct order?
when everyone finds out it will have a Cozzi effect.
Over the next year I'll have a lot of thinking to do. Go with 20 and a pension of 50% or stick it out to collect more. I am truly perplexed on how the department can make decisions like these. I have always believed that any decision that is made here is a knee jerk decision, one made at the moment without any thought.
But then I have to remind myself that those who make these decisions have never had to deal with the problems that any officer in Patrol has to on a daily basis. They have rode the "merit rocket" of promotions to get where they are today.
You could probably get the same results if you just picked someone off the street, put him in uniform and tell him to lead. OH WAIT! That has happened. We have Jody.
The indians on the old time westerns had a word /s for it...
He speaks with forked tongue.
Boys and Girls, don't get to upset, the dna (possible) swab is from the officers gun only. We do not request a swab from the officer. Director Joseph Murphy in HIS written order mandates the Forensic Investigators to swab ALL guns involved in a police shooting. We don't like doing it but a written order is just that. If you want further information call him at 312-746-6740 and ask him why swab an officers gun.
I wish to say this in a very professional matter to the current bosses on this job....Go fuck yourselves.
Anyone who tries to justify this by saying commenting along the lines of, "If you're innocent, you have nothing to fear" will be deleted without fail. Americans don't have to prove innocence - the State has to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You might feel comfortable giving away your Constitutional Rights. We don't. And we don't want anyone else giving them away for us either.
---------------------------------
The courts have eroded what few rights law abiding citizens have left.
Personally, I am not sure DNA is any worse than fingerprints or photographs. The big difference is just about anyone can compare photographs or fingerprints. With DNA, you are forced to rely on some nameless DNA tech in a far away lab to do the comparing.
I don't buy the "If you're innocent, you have nothing to fear" B.S. either, but I have seen similar opinions posted in this very blog when it refers to cops wanting evidence from citizens (criminal or otherwise). Good for the goose and all that.
Just use the Rd# from any recent police involved shooting to look up all generated inventories to see if a dna inventory of the officers weapon shows up...
Anonymous said...
Originally I thought the DNA swabbing of weapons during a police officer involved shooting only would be performed on any weapon possessed by the offender, thus negating the infamous and worn out "the cops planted the (insert weapon type here) on him" rant. But my partner and I have handled several police shootings since this order has come out and each and every time the crime lab has swabbed the OFFICER'S weapon. I may just be a lowly dumb detective but I still can't figure out the need to swab an OFFICER'S weapon for DNA if the offender(s) never touched the officer's gun. Maybe there is an ominpotent exempt who reads this blog and can enlighten me as to why this is now standard procedure. It makes no sense whatsoever to swab an officer's gun for DNA when only the officer possessed it.
I can see the need to swab an OFFENDER'S weapon found at the scene, but this nonsense of swabbing an officer's weapon is ridiculous!
6/17/2009 12:43:00 AM
How about an answer D-3 paid crime lab goofs?
NorthSide said...
TO: Weis, Peterson, Dugan, Cuello, McCotter, Masters and Brust:
Check your CPD eMail for the compelling and poignant account of "SWAT" officer M.P. in another big-city police department.
Let the record reflect you received this eMail yesterday, June 16, 2009.
Due to the extremely sensitive nature of the contents, I will refrain from further comment on this blog site on my eMail to you and unidentified others. I'm certain that SCC agrees.
I await your confidential response, Supt. Weis.
(Sgt.) John Northen (Ret.)
Chicago Police Department
6/17/2009 05:21:00 AM
Hey I Don't know you personally, observed you at the police protest, John just to say your a "rare" welcome breed! John guys like you should of been Supt.
Wouldn't it fall under "freedom from unlwful seizure" under the Constitution/Bill Of Rights?! So we are supposed to put into a dadtabase with convicted felons?! WTF. I always though that Illinois is extremely anti law enforcement. In a criminla cas e i would think a warrant would be needed to collect biological samples but not with us. the police are guilty of something.Even if u defend yourself, u are guilty!!!!I would sue the dept if i was ordered or requested to submit.
The tips of the noses of all exempts should be examined for the DNA from Daley's fat, wiggley ass.
civilian post-question
I don't get it. A PO is involved in a shooting, they ask for his DNA, so they can prove what about the shooting ?
I totally agree this is a total violation of a PO's rights, what reason do they give for doing it, I can't even imagine why they would need that, I understand that is the point, they don't need it, but did they even give a bullshit reason for trying to get it ?
In "Big Meeting Day!": "He's 'really tired if hearing "we can't do it because...' How about listening to the 'because' and address that? That isn't whining - that's someone explaining..."
In "Disturbing Report": "Anyone who tries to justify this by saying commenting along the lines of, 'If you're innocent, you have nothing to fear' will be deleted without fail.
Anyone who can't see the hypocrisy here fails. I'm not supporting the DNA collection, but why the banning of differing opinions while complaining that your's are not being heard?
SCC, in this case you are correct that the officer should refuse to give the sample, but you are not correctly explaining this DNA issue. CODIS is the DNA database we're talking about. Once DNA is in CODIS, it NEVER comes out.
First, only "offender" DNA is put into CODIS. This includes convicted sex offenders and other assorted felons, but it doesn't include every sample the state lab comes across. For example, the state takes tens of thousands of rape kits. Some kits contain "offender" DNA, but every single kit contains victim DNA. The "offender" DNA goes into CODIS. The victim DNA does not.
Second, swabs taken from people for DNA comparison are not put into CODIS. For example, blood evidence is taken in a murder. A swab is taken from a suspect. The swab DNA does not match the blood DNA. The swab DNA cannot and does not go into CODIS.
Finally, "unknown" DNA almost always goes into CODIS. So here is the problem.
DNA is taken from a crime scene. The DNA is not matched to anyone and it is unclear if this DNA is from a suspect/witness/or someone else. That unknown DNA goes into CODIS and stays there forever.
So, if an officer was involved in some incident where he likely left some biological evidence on the scene (for example, if the copper was injured and bleeding while struggling with a bloody murder suspect), then it would be to his advantage to submit a DNA sample in order to keep his DNA from being "unknown" DNA entered into CODIS.
But, in the case of a typical shooting, if the copper is sure that his DNA is not on the scene, then its not in his interest to provide a DNA swab. In fact, he shouldn't even be asked for one.
The department is trying to get officer DNA, just in case, some unknown DNA is found on the offender's gun. Then they can check that DNA against the officer's before that DNA is put into CODIS. However, if the officer never touched the gun, then it is not in his interest to give a DNA swab. If unknown DNA is found on the gun, then let it go into CODIS because its not the officer's DNA.
When that issue comes up in a civil trial the officer may have to submit DNA by court order to compare against the unknown DNA on the offender's gun. If that happens then so be it, the officer's "comparison" swab won't go into CODIS.
So, there is no hard and fast rule as to when an officer should submit DNA. In most cases, the officer will know that his DNA is not on the scene, so he should refuse, but, in some rare cases, it might benefit him to give a swab.
There are rules as to what can and cannot go into CODIS. The real issue for any officer submitting DNA is what happens to the actual swabs that contain his DNA sample. If an officer does submit a swab, the officer should make sure those are destroyed.
"You could probably get the same results if you just picked someone off the street, put him in uniform and tell him to lead. OH WAIT! That has happened. We have Jody.
6/17/2009 07:02:00 AM"
Actually, the results would likely be superior to.....
Welcome to J-Fed's world of screwing over the underlings. He does not back his own men, how can he even think anyone will respect him. J-Fed thinks of J-Fed -well, maybe after King Ritchie
Joe Murphy needs to go too.
He's a monetary liability placed upon a department who is cash short.
I would never wish to be permanently placed into his unfortunate position, in a wheelchair, or wish it upon another.
That's not the issue, although I wonder how many other less fortunate members were cut free from the cpd once they became "disabled". Case closed!
Don't let the door hit you in the rear bumper.
He must have some "Rukin" baggage on the shanks when he was the ASA back in the day to be held on to.
SCC,
This is one of your very best posts ever. WTF are they thinking, this is not Communist China yet.
If they want my DNA after a legit shooting, they can scape my skin cells off the bosses cheek after I bitch-slap him for asking.
www.secondclasscitizen.blogspot.com
What do you say?
those of you who wish to attend the Retiremant Party of Capt. John Farrell at Plumbers' Hall, 1340 W. Washington Blvd. on this Friday night (6 PM - Midnight
i'll be there, but i am coming in a disguise, they will dump you like they dumped some of those at the march on city hall. farrell is one of the smartest guys around and a lot of the exempts are big time jealous...
WTF!!! I work 1st watch in 025, I thought all round tables were upstairs in the dic's office. Never heard them using the (new) roll call room for this purpose. I mean, my God, it's a stone's throw away from the public door to the station WTF!!! You know where the SHIT-heads family all come to bitch....And to put the copper in the middle of a circle of chairs!!!!...can anyone substantiate this??? Fuckin Unbelieveable....even for CPD
spanky said...
I was shocked when I walked into the roomm we now use as a roll call room in 025 to find that the same room was used in a round table for a recent shooting that had occurred.
My amazament was seeing a circle of chairs surrounding a single chair. It was later learned that this tactic is currently being used on on police officers after going thru one of the most stressful times in their lives, yes a shooting. It appears the head of IPRA wants to intimidate officers during a round table.
Nice isnt it tha after a terrible thing like a shooting the IPRA boss wants to add to your pain by doing horseshit like this.
well it is not written anywhere that says you have to sit in the circle. so if it happens to you pull up a chair and make someone else sit inn the hot seat.
when you are a police officer performing your duties and a bad guy points a gun at you and you kill him, remember you are the victim. all he is , is a dead assailant.
we always go home to our famiilies, ALWAYS...
work safe and work smart
6/17/2009 12:44:00 AM
Do not give a DNA sample. The ILL state legislature rejected a law for collecting DNA from persons arrested for a felony. In Ill. a person must be convicted of a felony to be required to give a DNA sample. You have less rights then someone who is being arrested BS. Any officer harrased or disciplined for refusal would have a very nice lawsuit. The FOP needs to step up and start suing the city about Admin blows and DNA samples this is crazy Marky Mark better step up.
Be careful with IPRA.
They have been known to tell witnesses that they do not need to cooperate. Also, they re-canvass the neighborhood and take additional statments without telling the original dets what these other witnesses have said.
They can put their hands out and ill give em a handful of dna........
You guys should not give up a DNA sample, that's for criminals.
But I stand by my previously submitted but unposted comment that it's funny as shit that anyone would say "if you have nothing to fear...." considering that's a classic cop line.....translation: "I have no probable cause so I'd like you to waive your rights"
LOL......
I hope that this never happnes again
Id like to knwo who bullied the officer into providing the sample
I was involved in a incident recently where the State's attorney wanted my DNA to eliminate it from the offender's. I told her, I was the victim. Why don't you get shithead's DNA? She said that would be too difficult. Although they promised me it wouldn't go into the state's databank, I declined and called the union. Frank Dimaria told me to let them get a court order if they want it that badly. I believe the state's attorney was just trying to help me by getting my DNA. But where will that sample wind up? Five years down the road, they'll try to cornhole me with it.
If they want my DNA after a legit shooting, they can scape my skin cells off the bosses cheek after I bitch-slap him for asking.
6/17/2009 12:49:00 PM
OMG - Will this poster please Identify him/herself? I need who to send the repair bill to. I just sprayed coffee all over my computer. ROFLMAO
NO NO NO, do not submit the DNA sample, regardless of what the reason or justification is. Let whomever get a court order. The person who made the comment that he refused, but he thinks the ASA was trying to help him, is at best a fool. They are here to help you just like the FBI. Don't get conned into the excuse that they are trying to put the gun in the offenders hand or that they're trying to rule out that you planted it. Just think, what if during the foot chase some of your sweat or snot or spittle landed on the offenders gun, which you say you didn't touch and willing submit to a DNA, What happens when your DNA shows up. When ordered we pretty much have no choice as it applies to Breath Tests and pissing in the bottle, but there is no contractual, departmental order or ordinance that requires you to submit a DNA sample. It's a violation of your constitutional right, court order or else refusal. Now someone that refuses may take it in the neck initially for refusing an order, however he will prevail during arbitration and if he's smart the ultimate suit against a city. The commentators that say it doesn't wind up in CODIS may be correct, but what if there is an administrative screw up at the Lab and it accidentally gets sent to CODIS, it never comes out. Also, where do the results of the DNA sample wind up, in a misc file, a departmental file. Officers your fools if you sit back on this one.
Joe "but boss" Murphy can swab an officer's gun for DNA from now until the chickens come home to roost, but don't submit your DNA, they can do what they want to process the weapon used, but DNA from you court order.
Funniest post in a long time. Almost spilled my beer. "If they want a dna , ask them for a hand job." very very funny
As regards John Farrell, probably the best policeman I ever met. I would gladly go to the party but moved way out of state.
As for the exempts, almost all of them felt threatened by Farrell because he was that good.
old retired guy
No way I'm giving up any of my DNA!
Too many baby's momma's out there that want my child support as is!
Oh fuck them. I wouldn't even use that thumbprint think at Jewel when they were heavily promoting it. They finally got rid of it. This is really fucked up. And ridiculous when you compare the rights given to "victims" and how the police are treated.
---not a cop
If they want your DNA, ask them for a hand job.
6/17/2009 12:15:00 AM
OMG, THAT was funny!
---not a cop
The FOP needs to step up and start suing the city....LMFAO yea right!
The fop wont do shit.
the department cannot fire you for refusing an order that they are not allowed to give
For example they cannot order you not to eat hambugers for a week
Or to name your son Fred
They cant order you to give a DNA sample until it becomes something agreed to inthe contract or becomes law
Ergo they cant discipline you for refusing to provide the sample
During the testing procedures to get on with the force you have to submit DNA, also fingerprints and what not. Everything submitted into the National Database I'm sure
Once the camels nose is under the tent......
Its a new world boys!
"If they want your DNA, ask them for a hand job.
6/17/2009 12:15:00 AM"
Thank you, but no.
During the testing procedures to get on with the force you have to submit DNA, also fingerprints and what not. Everything submitted into the National Database I'm sure
6/17/2009 11:26:00 PM
**********************************
Okay newbie! Just because you had to, don't subject the (90% of us who have more time on then you)rest of us to it!
I think that the hair sample and D-N-A testing for recruits came about after 911. It was thought that if a 911 type attack occured here, the department would have your D-N-A in the system to help identify your remains, if any were left behind.
The only thing I ever gave when I came on this job was fingerprints. I figured what the hell, the military already had them so what was the harm.
I was involved in a incident recently where the State's attorney wanted my DNA to eliminate it from the offender's. I told her, I was the victim. Why don't you get shithead's DNA? She said that would be too difficult. Although they promised me it wouldn't go into the state's databank, I declined and called the union. Frank Dimaria told me to let them get a court order if they want it that badly. I believe the state's attorney was just trying to help me by getting my DNA. But where will that sample wind up? Five years down the road, they'll try to cornhole me with it.
Office, I don't know you or how much time you may have on the job. But if I may give you some advice and if you don't like, don't take it cool. First you were smart not to give your DNA up without question, Second good jod calling the FOP I know some PO'S do not like them, but Frank gave you solid advise ( Im sure he spoke with Dan Herbert prior to making the call on the court order, Dan I can say is top notch and I would go to war with or for him anyday.) And finally, The ASA's office is not your friend. They will fuck you over in the hopes of advancement in a second. I had an opportunity to be involoved with them and I would say that 90% do not like cops, we make more money then they do. They think we all lie and drink while we beat our wives and they look down on us because some of them think we do not know the law. Well I know cops that can put on a case with 1/3 the evidence and win hands down. So enclosing you did the right thing just keep using caution with this department and ASA's the real enemy is not always wearing baggy pants, smoking weed and running from the police! They are sitting at your pre trial conference. Like I said take the advice or don't. I only ask you remain safe and back up your fellow PO- even if you don't like them. We are the ones that need to put our ego aside and band together. If we do stick together, they can never beat us down. The harder they hit us the more resolve we will gain. I pray for my fellow officers even ones that did not care for me or may have said disturbing things about my career. In the end there only one person that looks me in the mirror and only one God will judge me. Please keep safe, keep your head down and your powder dry.
Most Repectfully,
Just another Cop that has been around long enough to know what time it is now. I only wish I was closer to pulling the pin.
God Bless
29 and a day said...
Thank you!
As a long term violent crimes detective who is also trained as an evidence coordinator, my advice is "DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR DNA".
Joe Murphy does not dictate department policy, period. I was the scene of an incident the other night and the F/Is were horrible.
Boys and Girls, don't get to upset, the dna (possible) swab is from the officers gun only. We do not request a swab from the officer. Director Joseph Murphy in HIS written order mandates the Forensic Investigators to swab ALL guns involved in a police shooting. We don't like doing it but a written order is just that. If you want further information call him at 312-746-6740 and ask him why swab an officers gun.
6/17/2009 09:23:00 AM
The above is totally true, but be assured that when Elimination DNA is not collected from officers by CPD at the scene, IPRA often demands it during the Major Case Review at ISP. Believe me, you have no one at 35th Street to back you up.
DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR DNA. DEMAND A COURT ORDER.
There are rules as to what can and cannot go into CODIS. The real issue for any officer submitting DNA is what happens to the actual swabs that contain his DNA sample. If an officer does submit a swab, the officer should make sure those are destroyed.
Okay, that's true. But the ISP Crime Lab was audited by the Feds last year and it was determined that they had entered HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSANDS OF DNA SAMPLES INTO CODIS THAT DIDN'T BELONG THERE. It will be a long term cluster f@#% to remove these, if ever.
So you still want to submit your buccal?
The state just rejected a law requiring inmates to provide DNA samples.
So this would be in addition to the requirement that the defendant submit a sample upon conviction? Seems silly to take 2 samples from every idiot, especially when the ISP can barely keep up with it as is.
Or are you referring to the proposal to make every arrestee submit a sample?
Okay, that's true. But the ISP Crime Lab was audited by the Feds last year and it was determined that they had entered HUNDREDS MAYBE THOUSANDS OF DNA SAMPLES INTO CODIS THAT DIDN'T BELONG THERE. It will be a long term cluster f@#% to remove these, if ever.
So you still want to submit your buccal?
6/18/2009 09:50:00 AM
----------
Good point. I also believe that you trust ISP at your peril.
But, I wanted to get the point across that a PO might want to submit a DNA swab if he's almost certain that his DNA is on a crime scene (particularly a homicide scene) because if it's left as "unknown" DNA, it is certainly going into CODIS. Then his DNA will be there forever.
Most cases, never give a swab, but be aware of the strange cases where it may help you to give one.
Boys and Girls, don't get to upset, the dna (possible) swab is from the officers gun only. We do not request a swab from the officer. Director Joseph Murphy in HIS written order mandates the Forensic Investigators to swab ALL guns involved in a police shooting. We don't like doing it but a written order is just that. If you want further information call him at 312-746-6740 and ask him why swab an officers gun.
6/17/2009 09:23:00 AM
The above is totally true, but be assured that when Elimination DNA is not collected from officers by CPD at the scene, IPRA often demands it during the Major Case Review at ISP. Believe me, you have no one at 35th Street to back you up.
DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT SURRENDER YOUR DNA. DEMAND A COURT ORDER.
6/18/2009 09:41:00 AM
NO FORENSIC INV WILL ASK YOU TO SUBMIT TO A BUCCAL SWAB! THE SWABBING OF WEAPONS WAS FORCED DOWN CDR MURPHY'S THROAT BY A BACK STABBING SGT AT DET HQ WHO WENT TO THE LAW DEPT AND MURPHY WAS TOLD TO ISSUE THE PROTICAL FROM HIS OFFICE. THE ORIGIONATORS DIDN'T HAVE THE BALLS TO PUT THEIR NAME ON ANYTHING OR ASK US WHAT ISSUES THIS WOULD CREATE. THEY DON'T CARE, THEY DON'T GET DRAGED INTO COURT TO EXPLAIN. MORE OF THE SAME BS ALL THE UNITS PUT UP WITH FROM ON HIGH.
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