Punitive Again?
Someone to verify please?
- Hey SCC I wanted to comment on a situation that arose out of Area 5. I want to make it aware to all of our Detectives and P.O.'s that a lawsuit was filed regarding an arrest in 2003. The arrest was the result of an offender attempting to shoot at Police Officers on the 5300 block of Congress. Well the short story is that the witnesses in this incident filed the lawsuit and alleged that they were held for 7 hours against their will.
The end result of this suit is that 2 retired Detectives were drug through the trial and found guilty (civil) and were ordered to pay several of these alleged victims a total of $132,000. This total is PUNITIVE and has to be paid by them not the City. Now we all know that this didn't happen but this is Cook Co. and Federal juries hate us so this is the outcome.
So I feel it is important that all of us know when a witness wants to leave, let them leave. None of these dogs are worth a single dime of your money. Interview them on scene and cut them loose.
The bottom line is the clearance rate just went in the toilet.
This should be a wake up call to everybody that thinks this Dept. has your back, well then I ask you to call Dugan and ask if he is going to pay the punitive damages. I mean hey he he said he has your back, lets see what he really means.
Throw out the anchor boys and girls the seas are going to get rougher.
SCC please post this so this does not happen to anybody else.
We also received word that J-Fed has requested that Corp Counsel begin pushing more cases to trial. The reason? Winning trials will improve morale. Unfortunately, Corp Counsel's track record is none too impressive in the actual practice of law (see above) and winning is as foreign to them as World Series titles are to the northside.
In any case, this would seem another death knell. These guys were hanging on to witnesses for pete's sake. The witnesses didn't even miss a meal. The clearance rate should crater over this judgment alone.
In any case, this would seem another death knell. These guys were hanging on to witnesses for pete's sake. The witnesses didn't even miss a meal. The clearance rate should crater over this judgment alone.
Labels: we got nothing
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
102 Comments:
This is Bad.
I was just at the dept's 4th Amnd training. They talked about this matter in general. They made it clear that holding a witness is paramount to arrest and any arrest w/o P.C. is unlawful. And we are PO's. No Det's were there. Seems the dept wants to hammer this home.
The irony in this whole case is that the "witnesses" who filed suit got paid before the criminal case went to trial.
And I'm pretty sure that the jagoff defendant was convicted!!!
I think it's time for FOP or some other police entity to start a insurance program for punitive damage awards. I'd pay a couple of hundred a year for the peace of mind..
I hate to tell you this But our job is nto to clear crime
Its to bring the facts of the case to the attention of the court
Who cares about clearances
Im sorry that these dicks have to pay money but they were wrong as two left shoes
Let this be a teachable moment
You try and try to tell these go-getters, it's not the same out there anymore. You cannot be the police anymore. As a matter of fact, even the day to day contact with the public is setting you up for a lawsuit. Just look at the facts: po's who do nothing but answer calls, and have 10 yrs in the job 0 cr#'s. Go getters who want the good pinch and ten years 7 cr#'s, three lawsuits and still getting nowhere ( no clout). It's like the commercial... This is your brain... This your brain on drugs..... Get the picture?
The only cases JFED is pushing to trial is cases where CPD members are CRIMINAL DEFENDANTS!!! This guy wants to bury you in a second if the media or politicians begin to question your actions. He wants more members of the CPD in the FEDERAL PENITENTARY that is his goal.
those Corp-Council Noodle-Heads have about as much of a chance of winning a case as the Titanic has of winning a Boat Race. They are all patronage dummies. Why else would they be working there, being licensed Attorneys ?? Remember, 99% of Attorneys give the other 2% a bad name, especially here.
This story is absolutely true. The verdict was delivered by a Federal Jury this past Friday. About five years ago, an offender was shot by the police. This offender wanted to sue the police for shooting him, but he was convicted and went to prison. However our favorite law firm for suing the police, you all know who I mean, took up the cause of seven people who claim they were unjustly held for eight hours at Area Five, because they were potential witnesses. Two of this group were childern. A federal jury returned a verdict in favor of the plantiffs. The compensatories awared were;
Jillisa-$40,000
Mary-$15,000
Carrie-$9,000
Lagina-$20,000
Lagins's son-$25,000
Jennifer-$2.00
Latoya-$2.00
Total compensatoires of $109,004.00that the city has to pay.
Two now retired detectives who handled this incident were then hit with punitive damages they have to pay out of their own pocket.
Carrie-$1,000
Jillisa-$40,000
Mary-$20,000
Latoya-$620.00
Jennifer-$500.00
Lagina-$30,000
Lagina's son-$40,000
Total punative, $132,012.00. That's $66,000.00 that each of these detectives has to pay themselves.
I also heard but have not confirmed that the winning attorneys are asking the court for legal fees in excess of $700,000.
Do not bring any witnesses into the station. You do so now at your own risk. They can later turn on you and claim they were illegally detained. Do not risk your financial future. The Federal Courts and juries hate us, thanks to the news media, politicians and the reverends.
"Unfortunately, Corp Counsel's track record is none too impressive in the actual practice of law (see above) and winning is as foreign to them as World Series titles are to the northside."
---------------------------------
In "J-Fed's World", a city's Corporation Council would have competent lawyers. In "SCC World", also known as "reality", the Corp Council is filled with a bunch of incompetent political hacks.
I'm not a legal eagle or anything, and I have a few law questions. We always hear about cases like this setting "legal precedent" that stands as a rule of law forever forward until they are eventually appealed to ???? where, the U S Supreme Court? Is this decision really one that is likely to stand up to appeals or will it likely be reversed?
My other question is this. Is this "legal precedent" now the law of the land for Illinois, or for the entire United States?
Also, it would seem to me that $132,000 is a mighty paltry amount of money from a Cook County jury considering they usually award millions. Won't the lawyers chew that entire amount up in legal fees leaving their clients ZERO or were they also awarded legal fees, once again making the lawyers the BIG winners?
Also, where can I buy tickets for the fund raiser that we HAVE TO HOLD for these guys? Hello? FOP? Jody? Shortshanks?
Hey Jody. Want to raise morale and show how you've got our backs all in one shot? Why not pick up the tab with your second paycheck for the job that someone else is actually doing?
And finally, aren't the lawyers the most contemptible pieces of crap on this planet? And why is it that William Shakespeare's plan, "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers", was never implemented?
And what, exactly, is the incentive and motivation for doing Police work?
Write your reports, go on home. Let the lawyers explain to the victims why they won't charge the offenders for their crimes... Because other lawyers have manipulated the system so thoroughly in search of the almighty dollar, that the ASA is afraid to go to trial anymore. After all, what chance does a subpar attorney, forced to be admitted to the U of I School of Law due to clout and entitlement, have against some of the vicious sharks trolling the waters of the Cook County Circuit Court system.
OT * Here's why our lawyers can't beat their lawyers!
3 top pols snub U. of I. clout commission
July 24, 2009 10:58 PM
Three of the state's most powerful legislative leaders have snubbed a commission investigating admissions abuses at the University of Illinois, declining to testify at its hearings.
House Speaker Michael Madigan (D-Chicago), Senate President John Cullerton (D-Chicago) and House Republican Leader Tom Cross (R-Oswego) all have opted not to appear before the Illinois Admissions Review Commission.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/
local/chi-u_of_i_clout_
legislatorsjul25,0,1212351.story
Ahhhhh, your ignorance shines through, evidently you never read the recently issued ( couple of years ago) "treatment and handling of witnesses order. This is old news, minus the outcome for the retired detectives.Sorry to burst your bubble.
Ahhhhh, your ignorance shines through, evidently you never read the recently issued ( couple of years ago) "treatment and handling of witnesses order. This is old news, minus the outcome for the retired detectives.Sorry to burst your bubble.
Ahhhhh, your ignorance shines through like a great blazing ball of napalm. Evidently, you didn't read that this case happened 4 or 5 years ago and certain law firms were probably trolling the old case files soliciting for a certain incident that they could leverage into a payout.
We wouldn't be surprised if this case was actually the trigger for the Legal Bulletin regarding interview, transport and detention of witnesses a few years back.
12:27AM good idea
Time for every copper to look into a Umbrella type, personal liability policy.
They are a good value for the money, I have $3,000,000 worth for about $400 a year with American Family.
Well worth the investment in this day and age.
To compound the problem in cases such as these, take a good look at your jury.
Two weeks ago I was called to jury duty at the Daley center. Looking around in the waiting room one would think that a " Ready Men Temporary Day Labor" bus from Uptown delivered most of the jury pool. In fact, there was one fellow there who was about 20 dressed in his G/D gang colors who I'm sure was recruited during a register to vote drive some time ago. This is just one example of what our "jury of your peers" has produced.
You talk about some uneducated morons. Fact is, your fucked if you ever have to go to trial for deeds you may have done in good faith. You might be better off in a bench trial and prey you have a judge that was deemed at least "marginal qualified" prior to the voting boxes being stuffed.
Anyway, going back to my experience, after lunch the jury was to be picked when a deputy came out and called my name. Needless to say when they looked at my info and found I work at the CPD I was cut loose.
Hey Area 5 and the rest of the D units and FOP, what's on the table to help these guys out financially?
Stay Safe Everyone
I hate to say this, but this is a no brainier really. Of course they were wrong, but where was their supervision ? Why didn’t a boss notice what they were up to and step in to correct them ? Did their bosses go to sleep or something ? In any case I am further wondering why these officers did not have professional liability insurance ? Just like a doctor every officer today needs this or they are handing their pension, home and future financial security to the first citizen they make a mistake with. We’re human, we’re all going to make mistakes, don’t let them be mistakes that will haunt you your entire life. The insurance costs a few bucks but the peace of mind it brings priceless.
witnesses to a police involved shooting--- isn't it supposed to be a civic duty to cooperate with police to solve a crime for the betterment of the community--- does this mean the next time i get a call for jury duty and i am forced to sit there for 8 hours against my will i can sue the county and get that new harley i really want ?????
$1,000,000 umbrella insurance policy is about $500 a year and a tax deduction because of the possibility of a punitive finding against an offficer
Treatment of witnesses was the subject of an agreement entered into federal court between the Chicago Police Department and a Federal Judge several years ago (2006 I believe). There was a lot of frustration when developing a policy that the federal judge could live with, because no one working on it had any experience with inner city witnesses, and the games they play when up at the Area during the case. It's a fine line that, unfortunately, the Detectives must walk on a daily basis. This, along with electronically recorded interrogations and 48 hour hold limitations, is why people are shooting each other and getting away with it. Society is, unfortunately, getting the police department that they wish for. The bad guys, and more importantly, Defense Attorneys, understand these new rules and use them to their advantage.
I hate to tell you this But our job is nto to clear crime
Its to bring the facts of the case to the attention of the court
Who cares about clearances
Im sorry that these dicks have to pay money but they were wrong as two left shoes
Let this be a teachable moment
7/26/2009 12:32:00 AM
I can respect that you have 29 and a day but I can tell you one thing these Detectives were NOT wrong. These dogs were impeached at least 15 times while on the stand. I hate to tell you this but they were lying. It does happen you know.
SCC said...
Ahhhhh, your ignorance shines through like a great blazing ball of napalm. Evidently, you didn't read that this case happened 4 or 5 years ago and certain law firms were probably trolling the old case files soliciting for a certain incident that they could leverage into a payout.
We wouldn't be surprised if this case was actually the trigger for the Legal Bulletin regarding interview, transport and detention of witnesses a few years back.
7/26/2009 07:04:00 AM
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Ya gotta love SCC for knowledge, research and/or preparation...
you can usually count on ALL the bases being covered prior to the first pitch!
It's true, I was there. The jury wasn't instructed that punitive damages were to be paid by the detectives and compensatory by the city. We were left to assume that the jury could have operated under the assumption that all damages were to be paid by the city.
The logic for the damages is inconsistent with the claims made by the plaintiffs. It appears that the most helpless of the plaintiffs (juveniles) were compensated the highest instead of the most injured. Evidence that the jury didn't really understand what they were doing in awarding the damages.
I'm sorry to say that self preservation must now take on a much greater role in how I and some of the other detectives involved in this case will conduct future investigations. It’s just getting too risky to deal with these types of people in any way. Just show up, take down a few notes, ask anyone if they want to be a witness and then move on and suspend the case in 10 days. No problem.
Remember there were originally six current detectives listed as defendants only to have Loevy and Loevy drop four but retain them as witnesses for no discernable reason on the first day of the trial. The two current detectives escaped punitive damages in the case but that was not known until the jury reached its decision. Can you imagine how that felt as they read out the damages in court waiting to hear you name called out followed by a dollar amount indicating how much you were on the hook for? All this for doing your job well.
One thing that was clear at the end of this trial. All involved emerged with a new sense of direction. If this is what this segment of the population wants, then we can certainly give it to them. This can be reflected in the way we investigate cases in their neighborhoods. If the black community doesn't want to assist us by providing I witness accounts or providing court testimony in trials then we won't ask them to do it any longer. Can you say Suspended?
John Loevy, you need to ask yourself if this is what you really want for your constituents. Job well done low life.
The bottom line:
Defendants: $240,016 judgment (most to two juvenile plaintiffs)
Loevy and loevy: $500,000(approx. legal fees incurred, but could be more).
City of Chicago: $400,000 (approx. legal fees incurred they wouldn't give us a number) plus $109,000 compensatory damages total $509,000 in costs
Two retired detectives: $132,012 (out of pocket costs)
Total tally: Lawyers raked in almost one million, the defendants got 240k for 8 hours of their time and two guys on a fixed income have to come up with 66k each. This is Justice?
P.S. Thanks Dean Andrews, we couldn’t have done this without you. There should have been a chair at the table with you name on it as well. Notice there wasn’t a single Detective Division supervisor on the defendant list? I’m shocked.
Time for a new form.
CPD Form 234543125.00012
"You can leave whenever you want."
This form will be read to all witnesses and then signed by said witness.
A Video of this discloser will be made and posted on
You Tube.
Let street justice prevail. Save yourself.
Yes it is a scam. Punitive damages are a club to get you to settle ("officer, if we don't settle you'll be responsible if there are any punitive damages")
Attorney's fees awarded by courts drives a lot of these cases. These lowlife law firms don't really care if they only get a ten dollar award. As long as they get something, they ask for attorney's fees. (as if their plaintiffs would ever pay that).
The solution: loser pays for everything. So when these lowlife lawfirms do lose, and it does happen, it's their turn to go bankrupt.
That won't happen because the attorneys won't give that up. So solution #2: you guys have to start suing them back. File a counterclaim for defamation, malicious prosecution, whatever. Hell, have your FOP lawyer do it. The corp counsel, even if they wanted to, can't since they represent the city. Let these lowlife lawfirms start having to deal with that.
Solution #3: Whenever there is god forbid serious injury to an officer or real citizen, file suit. Get a judgement. The criminal won't even show up to defend against it anyway. No free lawyer, no contingency fee, it's all on him, so he won't do it. A default judgement is still 100 % enforceable. In the event the criminal ever hits the lawsuit jackpot, you take your judgement against him and get the money.
If the Wilson brothers had been sued, the money they got from the taxpayers would have gone to the officers' families.
We also received word that J-Fed has requested that Corp Counsel begin pushing more cases to trial. The reason? Winning trials will improve morale. Unfortunately, Corp Counsel's track record is none too impressive in the actual practice of law (see above) and winning is as foreign to them as World Series titles are to the northside.
I really think the Shity should consider contracting lawsuits filed against the Shity to some experienced trial lawyer. We already know they play dirty. Let them battle it out with the other lawyers like loevey and loevey.(If the name is spelled wrong F*** em)Maybe the Shity wouldn't settle as many cases.
JHC!!! Damned if we do...damned if we don't!. ALL you citizens who read our blog should take note. We need this dept. to turn around and stop the bullsh*t. We can't protect correctly IF they keep doing these things to us. Would you want to lose a home, HARD earned money to BUNCH OF losers? The citizens of this city need to STAND UP and let the short one know that you aren't going to take this crap anymore. LET US BE THE REAL POLICE!
"Im sorry that these dicks have to pay money but they were wrong as two left shoes
Let this be a teachable moment
7/26/2009 12:32:00 AM"
No, they were right, but in the wrong place at the wrong time.
"It's like the commercial... This is your brain... This your brain on drugs..... Get the picture?
7/26/2009 12:53:00 AM"
You mean like:
This is your career....
This is your career in Shitcago....
Get the picture?
"Remember, 99% of Attorneys give the other 2% a bad name, especially here.
7/26/2009 01:24:00 AM"
Hey, as an ASA, I represent that!
Anonymous said...
And what, exactly, is the incentive and motivation for doing Police work?
Write your reports, go on home. Let the lawyers explain to the victims why they won't charge the offenders for their crimes... Because other lawyers have manipulated the system so thoroughly in search of the almighty dollar, that the ASA is afraid to go to trial anymore. After all, what chance does a subpar attorney, forced to be admitted to the U of I School of Law due to clout and entitlement, have against some of the vicious sharks trolling the waters of the Cook County Circuit Court system.
7/26/2009 04:05:00 AM
Last night englewood went up, why bother with any type of quick response, boys and girls let the animals roam, go home safe write paper who gives a shit anymore? Protect the homefront, you live in 008,022 etc protect that areas where tax payers live to keep the animals at bay! Hey 6713 could you send some cars over west end in 008?
Anonymous 29 and a day said...
I hate to tell you this But our job is nto to clear crime
Its to bring the facts of the case to the attention of the court
Who cares about clearances
Im sorry that these dicks have to pay money but they were wrong as two left shoes
Let this be a teachable moment
The Detectives did something wrong ?!?!?!
Teachable moment... Were you there ??? I'd like to know, because for you to make a comment like that, you had better been there. That is exactly what a Detectives job is... to clear the case. Hope 29 and a day means your retired, because it scares me if there is an as*wipe like you working out on the street.
I would have to concur with the previous poster (26 July, 1232hrs).
This is definitely a 'teachable moment.' Do what you are required to do, and no more. Lawyers and our pathetic leadership at the top have imploded what was once a great Police Dept.
My other question is this. Is this "legal precedent" now the law of the land for Illinois, or for the entire United States?
No it isn't. Jury decisions do not, in any legal way, determine a subsequent jury decision. In this case the federal jury decided certain questions of fact. Same case presented on a different date to a different jury could result in a different result.
As for appellate issues, well you can count on an appeal being filed, but unless some sort of major trial error is present, the decision will likely stand. The awards are of course subject to modification by either the trial court or the appellate court.
As to your quote there at the end - people have a hate-love relationship with lawyers. They certainly want a lawyer of their very own when they get in trouble, but can't WAIT to bash lawyers all the other times.
Sound like any other group you might be more familiar with? The police for instance?
if u care that much that u are willing to transport anyone into the station and hold them against their will, u are a complete fuckin idiot.... in NORMAL neighborhoods,witnesses are more than willing to assist helping the police or victim...write the fuckin report, make the fuckin notifications,and move the fuck to the next.
I am not a negative person, so take this the right way...I've been on for 11 years and for the first 7 or 8 i was the "real police" one day I got tired of the bullshit and for the last 3 years I've done nothing and it feels GREAT! Everyone NEEDS to try this! I decided that my life and my family far out ways any shitbird and his neighbors. I encourage all of you to join me, release your ego and let them do what they do. I refuse to risk my life for these ungrateful scum.
All the clearance rate bullshit is, is just the career agenda for egotistical non-realistic bosses that worry about themselves and put their own fears and stress into their men....
trickle down may be
moves made by the dicks that they should have thought out better to cover themselves rather than to please the panic stricken boss...
use your heads...
Corporation Counsel couldn't argue their way out of a paper bag. They are patronage slugs. And, why are there so many of them?
Another convincing argument in favor of 1 mover, 5 parkers and a bus check each day, no more.
No punitive damage awards against me, no federal lawsuits, no jail terms, no Jody Weis throwing me to the federal wolves, no Dan Dugan lying to me claiming he has my back and no depending on this job or these lying good for shit bosses to influence my morale or sense of well being.
I will retire soon at age 60 and leave with my comp time and furlough days check of approximately $100,000 in one lump sum and I will never ever look back.
The two detectives in question are straight as an arrow. The witnesses were there voluntarily and never once asked to leave. They were given food and drink and even brought downstairs to smoke. Years later after the department set a policy, these same witnesses who gave up the offender, decide to use that policy to their advantage and turn the truth around.
this is not verified... seems like a ploy by an attorney that found out that weis went to daley and said that no case is to be settled unless the officers involved in it say so. if the officers want to go to trial then it must go to trial. if they want it settled then corp counsel will make a deal. looks like some troll lawyers are having you fall for it scc to create mass panic and to have officers demand thier pending case gets settled... lets not jump to conclusions yet kids.
PATRIOT said...
those Corp-Council Noodle-Heads have about as much of a chance of winning a case as the Titanic has of winning a Boat Race. They are all patronage dummies. Why else would they be working there, being licensed Attorneys ?? Remember, 99% of Attorneys give the other 2% a bad name, especially here.
7/26/2009 01:24:00 AM
BRAVO! BRAVO!
When lawyers pass the bar exam, the top firms skim off the best, for good starting salaries.
Then, the better firms take there cut of the next best.
Then some go to the states attorneys office or worse yet, the public defenders office (bottom feeders).
The leftovers try to seek employment wherever they can, and quite a few end up as corporation council trial lawyers to gain experience and get the hell out of there. Those are the lowest paid positions, and I think they get a GOLD BADGE to impress the police. (City of Chicago, Corporation Council, #714, Bla Bla Bla)
Almost all of them start in traffic court, and move up to the ladder if they can convict a stop sign violator.
True, some stay there their entire careers, because you don't have to work hard, and you can just ride the system and hope someone wants to make you a JUDGE!
After years and years, you are making OK money but nowhere near what you would make with a top firm.
Jack MeHoff
PATRIOT said:
99% of Attorneys give the other 2% a bad name, especially here.
___________________________________
AHhhhhh...another fine graduate of CPS. That's why nothing adds up right in Chicago -- no one learned math too well. That's why 2+2= 5 or 3 depending on what part of the contract you are on.
Good for some, bad for others.
AND....
If the Titanic was built by Chicago contractors, they would have said it DID win a Boat race - it got to the bottom first and you "didn't pay anything extra" for that.
AND EVEN MORE FUNNY - the Chicago media would swallow that as a good reason and praise the selection of contractors.
Teachable moment?
This POLICE SHOOTING happened 6 years ago! Hope, pal, that if you ever get involved in a shooting you have p.o.'s and det's who try to put it together so your ass isn't hanging out there.
That being said, anybody who takes in a witness for any questioning from this moment forward is risking punitive damage.
Dont care if they sign paper saying they're there of their own free will, lovey and lovey will get em to say, "Oh, no - it was under duress". That will be a TEACHABLE MOMENT.
I'm not a legal eagle or anything, and I have a few law questions. We always hear about cases like this setting "legal precedent" that stands as a rule of law forever forward until they are eventually appealed to ???? where, the U S Supreme Court? Is this decision really one that is likely to stand up to appeals or will it likely be reversed?
My other question is this. Is this "legal precedent" now the law of the land for Illinois, or for the entire United States?
------------
People are generally under arrest when they are not free to leave. Putting handcuffs on is an indication of an arrest. Bringing someone to the station is an indication of an arrest.
You can "stop" someone for reasonable suspicion that he is, has, or will commit a crime, but you have to articulate what crime you think is occurring and why you think he is committing it. How long a "stop" can go on is a matter for debate, but if the suspicion is resolved and the person is still detained, he has been arrested. At that point, you need to have probable cause to justify that arrest.
People on the scene of a crime can be "stopped" and questioned if you can articulate that they could reasonably have been involved. If they refuse to cooperate, that should increase your suspicion they were involved and you would be justified in keeping them "stopped" at the very least as long as it took to identify who they were. Just document these facts on something, a supp, a contact card, anything.
But, once you start moving these witnesses around, they are under arrest and your going to need to establish probable cause for arresting them.
The smartest thing to do is just get names and addresses of witnesses and turn it over to the dicks. There is no more glory on this job. The people in this city don't give a crap if murderers and other criminals are arrested, so don't hang yourself out there to solve a crime no one in this city or this department cares about.
Certain Sgts encourage and actually talk down to the Detectives that DONT hold witnessess.. Hey the case is in the rooms...
Six years on the job, an accounting degree from DePaul University and a nice home. Good luck to the citizens of Chicago if they think I'm going to help bring anyone to justice for them over the next 25 years.
No gangbanger bullshit shooting or homicide is worth the spare change in my pocket. Will the victim sign complaints??? Will the victim/witnesses show up for court? Will the victim's "peoples'" just retaliate with street justice? The most likely answer! Fuck it. Fuck it. Fuck it.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
You try and try to tell these go-getters, it's not the same out there anymore. You cannot be the police anymore. As a matter of fact, even the day to day contact with the public is setting you up for a lawsuit. Just look at the facts: po's who do nothing but answer calls, and have 10 yrs in the job 0 cr#'s. Go getters who want the good pinch and ten years 7 cr#'s, three lawsuits and still getting nowhere ( no clout). It's like the commercial... This is your brain... This your brain on drugs..... Get the picture?
7/26/2009 12:53:00 AM
I agree with you 110% office. And guess what? I only have 22 months on the job!
All I do is answer my radio and look out for my fellow brothers.
THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF OUR JOB IS TO LOOK AFTER OUR FELLOW BROTHERS. And of course to answer the radio calls.
the biggest go-getters will soon be the biggest "Go broke"er's after the Lawsuits pile up.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,,25181925-2761,00.html#
This guys was found NOT GUILTY.... Cops get ass fucked everywhere
Yet again you show your ignorance SCC. The case was defended by outside counsel, not Corp Counsel. If you think that the CC's office is so inadequate, you are more than welcome to pay for your own lawyer if you get in a bind. Stop blaming the only people trying to defend your interests and point the finger where it belongs - the idiot juries who will give these lowlifes money at the drop of a hat. Not to mention the primarily liberal judges appointed to our federal district. They are the true reason why these crap verdicts happen.
NewsFlash to Dugan: Warriors get backing from their leadership. Why don't you step up and share some of your wealth with these jammed up coppers.
I was represented at trial by corporate counsel in a lawsuit. They won for me, and could not have done a better job for me. I am really appreciative of what they did. I am posting this for only one reason. I want to recognize the counselors who helped me and make the people aware that there are some capable people who help us. Do not malign these people. This counselor tried to do the best and won. God bless this counselor.
despite the jury being half asleep, a corp counsel too worried about having to take "furlough" days, the "girls" lying and crying while being impeached with their own words, and snooty "leovyite" screaming PUNISH THEM as he pointed at two of the best dicks in area five, an all female jury did this.
Thank G-D because He'll have the last laugh. Hopefully the appeal process will reverse this travesty.
mike lappe said...
"Two weeks ago I was called to jury duty at the Daley center..."
"You talk about some uneducated morons. Fact is, your fucked if you ever have to go to trial for deeds you may have done in good faith..."
7/26/2009 08:14:00 AM
Who wants to be judged by a jury pool that is too dumb to get out of jury duty? (No offense intended)
They just stuck a fork in it. Its DONE.
To the guy who says that the detectives were wrong as two left feet, and others who may agree with him:
The next time you get involved in some shit on the street and witness statements may help you, don't feel bad when the detectives tell you that they can't keep any of the witnesses at the station or the area.
And, God forbid, when the station/area is empty and some felony review public defender is considering what charges may be placed against you, then bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.
However, just remember your post this date and you will feel a whole lot better.
And as far as carrying insurance in case something like this happens, fuck it because it ain't going to happen again.
Your average A5 witness lost the following due to being (unexpectedly) a guest of the CPD for 7 hours: 1.5 hours of drinking malt liquor; 2.5 hours of harassing women on the street; 1.5 hours of sleeping; 1.5 hours of playing X-Box & other video games. The value of this lost
"time" to a creature that values time not at all: ZERO DOLLARS!!!!
They have to settle most of these cases.
The jury pool in Cook County and N. Illinois is so poor that its usually suicide to go to trial. A fair shake for the police/city is almost impossible. Be glad they settle.
They hate us, never, ever forget it.
Anonymous said...
"... I really think the Shity should consider contracting lawsuits filed against the Shity to some experienced trial lawyer... Maybe the Shity wouldn't settle as many cases."
7/26/2009 11:47:00 AM
The City of Chicago already farms out millions of dollars a year in legal business to connected law firms.
If you are a no clout cop or detective, you're defended by the Corp Council, complete with bottom of their graduating class lawyers hired due to family ties.
If you're a mobbed up city employee or friend or relative of the Daley Crime Family, they will spare no expense to protect that person. They will also spend BIG money to keep some suits hushed up and insist on confidentiality agreements, if settled. After all, it's not like the money is coming from their pockets!
Years ago, I saw a suit on an outfit connected Capt that had to cost the city a million or more in legal fees to a connected law firm that could have been settled for a fraction of that, out of court.
Umbrella policies do not cover this type of thing
they cover what you do by accident not what you do intentionally
Not ssure about professional liability insurance or if an insurance sompany will write a policy for a police officer
Yet again you show your ignorance SCC. The case was defended by outside counsel, not Corp Counsel. If you think that the CC's office is so inadequate, you are more than welcome to pay for your own lawyer if you get in a bind. Stop blaming the only people trying to defend your interests and point the finger where it belongs - the idiot juries who will give these lowlifes money at the drop of a hat. Not to mention the primarily liberal judges appointed to our federal district. They are the true reason why these crap verdicts happen.
7/26/2009 08:28:00 PM
Ok, sounds like someone who may be in a position to know....so tell me...why does a city,2nd city to be exact,the 2nd largest in America,need to hire OUTSIDE COUNSEL? Please fill in the blanks.
1. _______?
2. _______?
3. Incompetence
"Who wants to be judged by a jury pool that is too dumb to get out of jury duty? (No offense intended)
7/26/2009 10:38:00 PM"
So, why is it that people think it's smart to get out of jury duty?
Anonymous said...
$1,000,000 umbrella insurance policy is about $500 a year and a tax deduction because of the possibility of a punitive finding against an offficer
7/26/2009 09:11:00 AM
--------
Won't cover you for something like this....work related and punitive means they are accusing you of doing it on purpose, not negligently.
Anonymous said...
I hate to say this, but this is a no brainier really. Of course they were wrong, but where was their supervision ? Why didn’t a boss notice what they were up to and step in to correct them ? Did their bosses go to sleep or something ? In any case I am further wondering why these officers did not have professional liability insurance ? Just like a doctor every officer today needs this or they are handing their pension, home and future financial security to the first citizen they make a mistake with. We’re human, we’re all going to make mistakes, don’t let them be mistakes that will haunt you your entire life. The insurance costs a few bucks but the peace of mind it brings priceless.
7/26/2009 08:16:00 AM
Anonymous said...
$1,000,000 umbrella insurance policy is about $500 a year and a tax deduction because of the possibility of a punitive finding against an offficer
7/26/2009 09:11:00 AM
where can you purchase this?
How much is Lovey kicking up?
I think we are all missing the point here. A lot of us are posting that the Detectives were wrong. Lets get one thing straight here they (the DOGS) were lying plain and simple. What part of impeached don't you understand.
All I am trying to say is try to take the statements on ths street or wherever else they are at. By all means avoid transporting them to the Area or Districts, it just gives them ammunition.
If the state really wants the statement that is why they have State's Attorney Investigators. Remember one thing thet ASA's are exempt from being sued because they are officers of the court.
Six years on the job, an accounting degree from DePaul University and a nice home. Good luck to the citizens of Chicago if they think I'm going to help bring anyone to justice for them over the next 25 years.
___________________________________
Really you taking up our oxygen , fucking leave then go count beans you tool
"Ok, sounds like someone who may be in a position to know....so tell me...why does a city,2nd city to be exact,the 2nd largest in America,need to hire OUTSIDE COUNSEL? Please fill in the blanks.
1. _______?
2. _______?
3. Incompetence
7/27/2009 12:07:00 AM"
1. kickbacks
2. collusion
I don't know the details of the case, so I will only make a couple observations in general.
Times have changed. things police routinely did not all that long ago are no longer acceptable. Whining about it is not going to result in a return to the way things could be done in the past.
You can't hold people that are not suspected of a crime indefinitely, short of some kind of court order. Especially children. That pesky 4th amendment.
Other police departments have managed to adapt to the 21st century. Chicago PD is going to have to do so as well. Or keep paying out judgments to the bottom feeders.
are some of you forgetting Felony Review? Sometimes it takes 3 hours before they will respond and they won't respond until the Dets. have interviewed everyone and are seeking charges. you are talking more then 7 hours for some cases.
7/26
8:20pm
Any outside firm used will always be connected politically. I've seen the city use outside firms in Police Board cases but never in lawsuits against p.o.'s. That sure doesn't mean the city doesn't. My two trips to Federal court were covered by Corp Counsel and luckily won.
The police that need to be educated in the law are Weis' idiot exempt. He can start with the head of ocd and vice. Big time streetwise EG ordered the unit to sign up a informant and use the informant to write a positive search warrant each week - or be ready to get dumped. Someone tell me how a police officer makes that happen? Isn't ordering police to meet quotas under threats illegal?
Contact whoever holds your renters or homeowners insurance and tell them you want an umbrella policy for $1 million. I've had one for several years.
FOP should look into some kind of group errors and omissions policy. Other professions have it.
"Let this be a teachable moment"
Wow.....now we're quoting Oback Barama. I feel so enlightened. Should I dare to touch his robe? I got a teachable moment for you. These detectives were investigating the attempted murder of Police Officers, not some shithead. For those of you who say they were wrong, remember that when you get fucked over by detectives after you pull the trigger.
This is all on the ASAs. The only reason a wittness is ever in the Area for more than an hour is because they are waiting for the ASA to arrive and interview them. If anybody here wants to bash these Detectives, you are dead wrong.
Your average A5 witness lost the following due to being (unexpectedly) a guest of the CPD for 7 hours: 1.5 hours of drinking malt liquor; 2.5 hours of harassing women on the street; 1.5 hours of sleeping; 1.5 hours of playing X-Box & other video games. The value of this lost
"time" to a creature that values time not at all: ZERO DOLLARS!!!!
_______________________________
you forgot, corner slap fight, 6 trips to corner store for chips n juice, a shirt-less woo woo fest with neighbors, a juke festival and sitting in friends car smoking a blunt
These detectives were investigating the attempted murder of Police Officers, not some shithead.
----------------------------------
I realize that crimes against cops get a lot more attention from the police department, for somewhat obvious reasons. It doesn't change the rules any, and these days you are unlikely to get a pass for breaking the rules.
mike lappe said... there was one fellow there who was about 20 dressed in his G/D gang colors who I'm sure was recruited during a register to vote drive some time ago.
Jury duty includes those who have registered to vote, and those who possess a state ID or drivers licence, among other things. Just sayin'.
Let the fucking clearance rate drop through the floor. Who cares and why should we? It's not worth it, boys and girls. Protect the homeland. That's all.
THEY HUNG OUT AND RAIDED THE FRIDGE IN THE SVU OFFICE
I think we are all missing the point here. A lot of us are posting that the Detectives were wrong. Lets get one thing straight here they (the DOGS) were lying plain and simple. What part of impeached don't you understand.
All I am trying to say is try to take the statements on ths street or wherever else they are at. By all means avoid transporting them to the Area or Districts, it just gives them ammunition.
If the state really wants the statement that is why they have State's Attorney Investigators. Remember one thing thet ASA's are exempt from being sued because they are officers of the court.
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
The problem is the states attorney needs to interview the witnesses prior to charging the offender. States Attorney investigators don't "investigate" until after the offender is charged. Everything still falls back on CPD, specifically detectives.
Did some checking on "Umbrella policies" Typically they are on your homeowners and auto policies and do not cover work related claims. They just kick in when the homeowners or auto policy limits are exhausted. Another very important fact, most umbrella policies won't pay for intentional actions which happened in this case. They DO NOT pay punitive awards that are awarded for a persons bad behavior which is the case in all punitive awards, that is why they are given. All I'm saying is check the policy very closely and question the agent and explain why you want it
Ok, sounds like someone who may be in a position to know....so tell me...why does a city,2nd city to be exact,the 2nd largest in America,need to hire OUTSIDE COUNSEL? Please fill in the blanks.
1. _______?
2. _______?
3. Incompetence
7/27/2009 12:07:00 AM
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
1. The best and the brightest are not employed by the Corporation Counsel's Office.
2. See reason 1 and/or 3.
3. Incompetence at the Corporation Counsel's Office.
4. The Corporation Counsel's Office is overworked. Oh, who the fuck am I kidding? LOL! I crack me up! Seriously now, see reason #2.
I also checked on the umbrella policy. It is only and extention of your homeowners policy and most dont cover work related. Also if the homeowners policy covered these detectives thwey would not need the umbrella because the judgement was for $66,000 well within the homeowners coverage Jusy beware and checl real close when buying a umbrella policy. If you are going to buy it now because as in this case what was it in 2003 or even 2006, so buying a policy now wouldnt cover you because the policy was not in effect when the incident ocurred
The police that need to be educated in the law are Weis' idiot exempt. He can start with the head of ocd and vice. Big time streetwise EG ordered the unit to sign up a informant and use the informant to write a positive search warrant each week - or be ready to get dumped. Someone tell me how a police officer makes that happen? Isn't ordering police to meet quotas under threats illegal?
Dude give it up. You are in a heavy unit with a take home car. Use your clout to go somewhere else or stfu. God forbid you actually have to lock someone up once in a while.
are some of you forgetting Felony Review? Sometimes it takes 3 hours before they will respond and they won't respond until the Dets. have interviewed everyone and are seeking charges. you are talking more then 7 hours for some cases.
7/27/2009 10:23:00 AM
Holy crap? You mean felony review doesn't magically appear at some time BEFORE you guys ask for charges?
There are at least 100 ways to jump up on the felony review - and you choose to carp on the one that makes you look like a moron?
Go get your shinebox, and write some more parking tickets.
Some idiot is posting about a "teachable moment."
Right.
I have been taught quite a while ago.
A few tickets and a bus check pays the same and with no headaches. I want to go home stress free and headache free and I do.
A policeman is a target out there. You will have much less trouble in your career if you do the minimum than if you are out there being all aggressive.
I've had my teachable moments and have adjusted my police work accordingly.
NO - Felony Review WILL NOT appear until you ask for charges. Apparently somebody hasn't made many felony pinches to know that.
Anonymous said...
NO - Felony Review WILL NOT appear until you ask for charges. Apparently somebody hasn't made many felony pinches to know that.
7/28/2009 09:15:00 AM
Jeez, you mean there are PO's there who do not know how to navigate Felony Review? First, they need something to review, like a case. that would include an arrest report, case report, witness list and preliminary interviews etc.
They usually require a detective on all felonies so it gets done right. If a PO has done it before and the case sounds good you might get charges, I usually do. If it is a mess and the paper work isn't complete enough to fax to the ASA's then forget it, misdemeanor only. If the detective is tired or has something to do you will hear the infamous "You got nuttin' kid."
Then in a day or so your arestee will be magically indicted by the GJ.
well, i've been sued in fed court several times. three went to trial and the corp counsel and respondents were found "not guilty", i.e.,we won. of course this didn't stop the dirt bag attorneys from re-filing, which the city then settled. point being, if you really feel your right, trial all the way, but if there is even the slightest doubt, settle baby.
I think it's time for FOP or some other police entity to start a insurance program for punitive damage awards. I'd pay a couple of hundred a year for the peace of mind..
7/26/2009 12:27:00 AM
It's illegal, Mr. Douchebag
Time for every copper to look into a Umbrella type, personal liability policy.
They are a good value for the money, I have $3,000,000 worth for about $400 a year with American Family.
Well worth the investment in this day and age.
7/26/2009 07:32:00 AM
It won't cover punitives. Take it to the bank!!
SCC you are right on the money!:
In case you some of the readers missed it, look at the salaries of the lawyers. They actually got more money than their a**hole clients. The law firm of slimy and slimy took the fact that the current climate of the general public to hate the police and NOT believing ANY police officer testimony and ran with it
P.S............ The detectives did absolutely nothing wrong.
After hearing about the five year old case where two retired Area 5 detectives were hit with punitive damages Greg Bella was asked by some detectives, "What should we do now?" Greg stated, "Nothing." An absolute perfect answer. You don't have to tell me twice.
In addition, he added that there was no insurance to cover punitive damages against a P.O. Why? Insurance companies do not cover "Willful and Wanton." Ever.
It should become crystal clear to every real detective who is actually working his cases to not bring anyone in to the Area. Do not have your favorite tact guys bring anyone in. This recent case was actually mined by Loevy and Loevy and it is just the start. Every single witness you ever brought into the station or interviewed is a potential Plaintiff now.
Clicking your CHRIS box for witness advisory rights given or printing and utilizing your own witness advisory is irrelevant. It is no protection and never will be.
One of the biggest culprits of witness abuse is clearly Felony Review. Witnesses wait for their eventual arrival only to have their balls busted for the next five or six hours, and have absolutely nothing of their account memorialized because, "We need to have the defendants in so their statement matches the witnesses." Once the defendants are brought in then it is, "You have to go bring the witnesses back." "We are not charging unless we talk to them again."
Or Felony Review will sit and watch video of the defendant while all of the witnesses are up in the area for hours. The time to end Felony Review and to start VIDEO TAPING WITNESSES with their rights read aloud is NOW.
One poster stated that we have to start hitting back. I could not agree more. When you are served with your lawsuit and the complaint and allegations are so far off from the reality of the incident you need to start looking at the Plaintiffs attorney as someone who has violated, ARDC VIOLATION RULE 1.2 Scope of Representation
(f) In representation of a client, a lawyer shall not:
(1) file a suit, assert a position, conduct a defense, delay a trial or take other action on behalf of the client when the lawyer knows or reasonably should know that such action would serve merely to harass or maliciously injure another;----
http://www.iardc.org/rulesprofconduct.html#Rule%201.1
I have used it. It works like a charm, and you have everyone's undivided attention.
The attorney has to answer the complaint to the ARDC and provide what information they have that caused them to initiate the lawsuit against you. (This part was particularly interesting to me because I learned that a Sergeant in Legal Affairs never read the complaint and just named every person with a star number after his name as a potential defendant / witness.)
Finally, this has nothing to do with laying down, or being a dog, or collecting a check. This is about survivability. Your supervisors are not sitting next to you at the defense table. The fact of the matter is that very few of our supervisors have ever been in this position. I kept waiting for a response from SOMEONE with a friggin gold braid to answer this nonsense and it is not going to happen because they do not have an answer about this for you.
The Assistant States Attorneys who are clearly the biggest violators of witness rights I have every seen in the twenty five years I have been on will not be sitting at the defendant table either because of their immunity.
For Christ sake start hitting back. Go on the offensive against the Department. Ask them what do they think you should you do, what should they do, who are they going to call, how are they going to respond?
Take Felony Review to task. Refuse to bring anyone in because you fear fiscal financial retaliation but you will be more than happy to transport the Felony Review Assistant to the witnesses homes.
Take the Civil attorneys to task. Remember their clients have no money to reap an award or judgment but the attorney is loaded with cash. Time to watch them squirm.
I"m sorry that these dicks have to pay money but they were wrong as two left shoes
Let this be a teachable moment.
When some asshole uses the term "teachable moment" I think of one guy: Obummer. The guy who wrote that is probably a follower of that coconut head.
Take Felony Review to task. Refuse to bring anyone in because you fear fiscal financial retaliation but you will be more than happy to transport the Felony Review Assistant to the witnesses homes.
Take the Civil attorneys to task. Remember their clients have no money to reap an award or judgment but the attorney is loaded with cash. Time to watch them squirm.
7/29/2009 12:36:00 PM
Great advice!
The only way to deal with this is to presume that the ASA will refuse to prosecute or continue your case before refusing to prosecute. Let them do what they want. Don't even look like you care.
Document the ASA's refusal to do something, like refusing to talk to a witness, refusing to take a handwritten statement from a witness, and refusing to go to a witness' home. Document the ASA's comments about your witness or your case, like "he's just a gangbanger" and "this case stinks."
Let them reject your cases. In the end, it's really the best outcome for you. You get paid to investigate, the case is closed, your report gives you the final say, and there is very little chance of being sued.
The only thing you miss out on is court time and that's a small sacrifice to keep your home after you retire.
There is no glory on this job. There is only risk. Risk to your job, to your financial security, and to your sanity. There is no reward for taking risks. There are only penalties.
FOP what about a fund raiser for these guys. let's not leave them out to dry....may be one of us next.
Well we have all been taughta valuable lessson. Less is more.
Take Felony Review to task. Refuse to bring anyone in because you fear fiscal financial retaliation but you will be more than happy to transport the Felony Review Assistant to the witnesses homes.
Take the Civil attorneys to task. Remember their clients have no money to reap an award or judgment but the attorney is loaded with cash. Time to watch them squirm.
7/29/2009 12:36:00 PM
Great advice!
The only way to deal with this is to presume that the ASA will refuse to prosecute or continue your case before refusing to prosecute. Let them do what they want. Don't even look like you care.
Document the ASA's refusal to do something, like refusing to talk to a witness, refusing to take a handwritten statement from a witness, and refusing to go to a witness' home. Document the ASA's comments about your witness or your case, like "he's just a gangbanger" and "this case stinks."
Let them reject your cases. In the end, it's really the best outcome for you. You get paid to investigate, the case is closed, your report gives you the final say, and there is very little chance of being sued.
The only thing you miss out on is court time and that's a small sacrifice to keep your home after you retire.
There is no glory on this job. There is only risk. Risk to your job, to your financial security, and to your sanity. There is no reward for taking risks. There are only penalties.
7/29/2009 06:03:00 PM
O.K. back to reality. Did you forget what got these guys in trouble in the first place. A police shooting, attempt murder to police officer.
How do we just send the witnesses home and tell felony review to come back later and interview them at their homes?
Think about it. There's going to be a round table(really stupid, b the way) and senseless reoporting requirements for the bosses. This became a vital part of why the witnesses needed to stay so long, presumbaly. Loevy and Loevey used this against us in this case.
First, they implied that we held them until they gave the story that we wanted them to tell. Secondly, they claimed we held onto them so that they could not tell their version of the story at the round table. All rediculous of course, but how do you think the jury received it? That's all that counted in this case, what the jury believed could have happened. Remember you only need a proponderance of the evidence in a civil trial.
This is what we are up against in today's legal invironment. We dont have a chance when we elect liberals to important government positions like, for instance, president. Look at who Obama nominated for supreme court judge. She's cut from the same cloth as the judge in this case, Castillo.
It is this type of thinking that is causing us to lose the fight. We are trully doomed if this thinking prevails.
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