TASER Ruling
- A federal appeals court this week ruled that a California police officer can be held liable for injuries suffered by an unarmed man he Tasered during a traffic stop. The decision, if allowed to stand, would set a rigorous legal precedent for when police are permitted to use the weapons and would force some law enforcement agencies throughout the state -- and presumably the nation -- to tighten their policies governing Taser use, experts said.
Michael Gennaco, an expert in police conduct issues who has conducted internal reviews of Taser use for the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department and other agencies, said the ruling by the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals prohibits officers from deploying Tasers in a host of scenarios and largely limits their use to situations in which a person poses an obvious danger.
If a person is an "obvious danger" to yourself or other officers, the TASER shouldn't even be on your list of options. TASERs might be effective on people in fixed locations who are mostly intent on harming only themselves. The minute they start to threaten other people, officers or become mobile thereby increasing the likelihood of injury to other citizens, your force options should be pretty limited.
This is the Ninth Circuit though, and if we aren't mistaken, they are about the most overturned court in the nation. Most of their rulings have no basis in any law known to mankind.
Daley already pays off anyone who sues, so this shouldn't have any effect on CPD in the short term.
This is the Ninth Circuit though, and if we aren't mistaken, they are about the most overturned court in the nation. Most of their rulings have no basis in any law known to mankind.
Daley already pays off anyone who sues, so this shouldn't have any effect on CPD in the short term.
Labels: we got nothing
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
41 Comments:
Fine and dandy. When I drop dead during an attack that could have been prevented by the timely use of a taser, then at least I know who to haunt. Them fruitcake judges from the left coast. San Andreas, can you fucking drop already!!!!
Anyone that uses a taser is dumb, 90% end up in lawsuits.
What should I do?
NOTHING!!!!!
Drive extra slow to each job.
Make sure a supervisor is there when you arrive.
Shoot first, ask questions later.
Ask for a lunch or personal.
Drive to the closest hospital and admit yourself for shock trauma.
I wonder when a law will be passed stating an officer has to get shot in order to use deadly force.. What a fucking joke!
"This is the Ninth Circuit though, and if we aren't mistaken, they are about the most overturned court in the nation. Most of their rulings have no basis in any law known to mankind."
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Very true. A bunch of liberal goofs.
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, seated in San Francisco, is the most liberal circuit in the nation.
Throw away the tasers and use the gun.
Let's just shoot everybody with a squirt gun
This ruling should have minimal if any impact here. Yes, the 9th Circuit can be pretty irrelevant to planet Earth, but unfortunately does carry the weight of law for our west coast brothers and sisters.
I suppose that TASER may bankroll some department's eventual 1983 action in their appeal to the SCOTUS.
It is a CALIFORNIA Appeals Court decision, not directly applicable here unless handed down in this district or by the Supreme Court.
It's only a matter of time. I've been following Taser issues for a couple of years and probably the only comment I heard that makes sense comes from the American Medical Association which says that when used correctly Tasers can help save lives but can be deadly when used incorrectly. The problem is that there isn't a consensus on correct vs. incorrect use and agencies are leaving officers hanging in the wind.
Taser is on its way out.Taser Intl. has been lying for years about it being non-lethal when Taser is really a less lethal option.
They have had to change their training protocols due to numerous injuries to trainiees.
Taser is not fool proof and not the Star Trek phaser officers think it is.When it fails,what will you do??
True, not binding here yet. Except the panel of the Ninth Circuit that decided the case was not super-liberal. These judges deciding a case against the police means its almost certain to be reviewed by the Supreme Court.
Why use a TASER when I have a .45 cal semi-auto pistol with +P flying JHP's?
Noob citizen question here- if you get a call of a possible suicide, what does the CPD generally use to stop them from hurting themselves? Taser, or something else?
This blog should have an "Ask The Cop" section!
Gallagher said it best...
"California is like a bowl of Granola, what ain't fruits and nuts is just plain flakes!"
I once popped a bag of microwave popcorn with a Taser. Only caveat: incorrect placement of the barbs results in unevenly popped kernels.
What is with the general public and our judicial system overreacting to any new ways of addressing the ugliest of society's problems?
Tasers are a weapon designed to require the least amount of impact/damage to a person's body.
But here we are...
JUDGE: Oh, Jeez...I don't know about this. This tasing thing sounds awfully horrible. It makes me cry.
How about this?
Let's make a survey, and give it to the general public.
QUESTION:
When acting violently towards another person or police officer, you will be dealt with by law enforcement. Before we whoop your ass, and lock you up, if we could freeze time, and give you a choice on how we respond to your aggression, would you choose:
(a.) getting beat about the body with a wooden or metal baton repeatedly until you stop doing the bad things you are doing, or
(b.) getting shot, or
(c.) getting pricked by tiny metal prongs that cause a few seconds of pain throughout your body?
Personally, (c.) is looking mighty pretty to me.
Probably a good idea to get rid of tasers altogether. Considering the last time I saw someone get tased, I nearly had a heart attack from laughing so hard at the sight of that motherfucker flopping around the ground like a big 'ol fat Carp. Hahahaha
Screw the taze, just shoot.
The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, seated in San Francisco, is the most liberal circuit in the nation.
1/02/2010 01:12:00 AM
Nancy Peloso country...figures.
America is becoming a land of the inmates running the asylum. The honest and responsible citizens get screwed while the animals, criminals, uncivil assholes, etc.... have free reign to do as they please.
For example, a week ago, my partner and I caught a guy breaking into someone elses car. He took off on us and caught him. We also found an Verizon Droid cell phone and the victim's purse with her work id. FELONY CHARGED DENIED.
So the asshole gets to walk out. While the victim has to pay for the damage to her vehicle and plus her leather seats probably got damaged because of the intense cold and wetness. What a fucking joke.
How long are Americans going to put up with this fucking bullshit?
Anyone that uses a taser is dumb, 90% end up in lawsuits.1/02/2010 12:25:00 AM
WRONG PUMPKINBALLS!
Those who are afraid of lawsuits are pussies! Be a fuckin' man and take care of business. 99 percent of everything we do ends in a lawsuit, 0.001 percent of all those lawsuits end in coppers paying out of their pockets. So what.
Use gun or other means as needed.
ok Barney you can put your pocket bullet in th gun now. Are you sure Ange?
OK, I'm an old wheelgunner and I think Tasers have their place in situations a step below fatal force but WTF with some of the young pups out there? How many times have some of these guys failed to realize that the best offensive and defensive weapon they have is usually under the hair gel?
Too many times I see some of these guys unnecessarily escalate a situation and sometimes it leads to a use of force. Nothing wrong with using force when it's justified but some young pups need an attitude adjustment. Maybe they should have to work in the boonies somewhere where the nearest backup could be miles away so that they learn to use their own resources to control a situation.
A big part of this problem is using the Taser as a compliance tool.
"Maybe they should have to work in the boonies somewhere where the nearest backup could be miles away so that they learn to use their own resources to control a situation.
1/02/2010 11:07:00 PM"
what resources?
Correct me if Im wrong, but I believe anytime a liberal/progressive wants a ruling in their favor they file it in the 9th Circuit-and usually win
Anonymous said...
Anyone that uses a taser is dumb, 90% end up in lawsuits.1/02/2010 12:25:00 AM
WRONG PUMPKINBALLS!
Those who are afraid of lawsuits are pussies! Be a fuckin' man and take care of business. 99 percent of everything we do ends in a lawsuit, 0.001 percent of all those lawsuits end in coppers paying out of their pockets. So what.
1/02/2010 07:43:00 PM
Pumkinballs. I like that description. Let the younger officers continue to use the taser for every job. Eventually you will find yourself at the Dirksen building. We survived many years without it. Try your cognitive ability before tasing everyone. Big balls will lead to you big problems. OOPS! Time for lunch!19P
You got some statistics to back up your 90% claim? Like anything else, be reasonable when you use it and don't act like an idiot.
OK then... Forget about the Taser and let us carry Phase4 pepper spray instead of the glorified hot sauce we're forced to carry now? Phase4 was banned because the ghetto dogs were complaining that it was "too hot." Hello dumbasses? PEPPER SPRAY??
Hmmmm... If we had the wherewithall, we'd have "The Box Chevy Phantom Police Aerosol." 10 million scovilles with a mixture of chinese mustard, wasabi powder, a pinch of super-glue, a bright pink indelible dye and a distillate of that flower that smells like a rotting corpse. Do the fool with the Police and get that ass melted into a crying, shitting, puking pile of red mud. If fool gets away somehow, they'll be a funky fuschia motherfucker for weeks. "Boy, get your stankin' rose colored ass outta my house!" "Waahh, Granny the Po-leece sprayed me, I gotta hide!"
We tickle the hell out of ourselves sometimes...
A big part of this problem is using the Taser as a compliance tool.
1/03/2010 01:17:00 AM
Anyone that uses a taser is dumb, 90% end up in lawsuits.
1/02/2010 12:25:00 AM
****************************************************
Whats the issue here?
Only white shirts and a few FTO's carry tazers!
a lot OF TROLLS HAVE POSTED TO THIS ISSUE AND I FOR ONE CAN SAY GFY!
SIR - MA'AM
WHO STATE THAT WE WHO USE THE TAZER ARE LOOSE CANNONS OR SOME OTHER FORM OF CRAZY.
WE OFFICERS WHO RUSH TO BACK UP OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN BLUE ARE WHATS ITS ABOUT AND WAS THE CORE OF BEING A BLUE SHIRT. I WRITE THIS STATEMENT KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THERES A NEW BREED OF OFFICER BEING HIRED AND RETAINED. AND IF YOU DON'T START BEING THE POLICE NOW SOMEONE WILL PAY THE ULTIMATE PRICE BECAUSE YOU ARE EITHER SCARED OR JUST WORKING FOR THE 1ST AND 16TH.
JUST SAYIN A FTO IN 015.
Guys, I do training and Taser safety and use really is in a state of flux notwithstanding the left coasters on the 9th Circuit.
In all fairness, it's pretty damn hard to get straight information. Taser understandably isn't going to say its product is unsafe or faulty (did Ford jump at the chance to say that about the Pinto?) but now calls it a "less lethal" weapon. On the other hand you've got Amnesty International screaming for a ban on Tasers. In the middle, as noted in an earlier post, is the American Medical Association which says that they can save lives if properly used and kill people if not.
Then there's the data coming in about deaths in which Taser use was a factor.
I don't view the 9th Circuit's ruling as necessarily bad or totally off the wall. It's hardly news when you stop to think that a 1983 action could be filed in other cases in which excessive force is alleged and a Taser isn't involved.
In all seriousness, I am not absolutely sure what to advise my (suburban) officers about proper Taser use with so much still unresolved both in science and law. The Taser has an odd niche as "less lethal" when the law pretty much recognizes a force continuum as "fatal" and "nonfatal." About the best guesstimate I can make is that Taser use should be a "less lethal" alternative -- above "nonfatal" and a notch below "fatal." If I were to give a hypothetical, say some wack job is being hostile, unusually aggressive and lunges toward you within reach distance of your duty weapon. This guy hasn't made any specific threats but you're obviously worried that you don't have time to engage in overanalysis. It would seem to me that since he was acting in a peculiar manner, rapidly lunged toward you and could make an arguably successful grab for your pistol, then Taser use might well be justified as an alternative to fatal force (which would probably require more indicators). Again, just a guess.
I'm sorry it's difficult to be more definite. My officers understandably want bright lines and it's hard to give them that at this time. I suggest to all officers that you become as informed as possible about Taser use and the present controversy which remains very much unsettled.
I don't put a lot of stock in the 9th Circuit but in a backhanded way this could be good as it may force the issue to some type of resolution which, like it or not, would at least not leave the troops hanging out there guessing. Stay tuned.
And, as always, better tried by 12 than carried by six.
For example, a week ago, my partner and I caught a guy breaking into someone elses car. He took off on us and caught him. We also found an Verizon Droid cell phone and the victim's purse with her work id. FELONY CHARGED DENIED.
-----------------------------------
Yeah, this revives an earlier thread, but why were they denied? Maybe officers and victims need to start asking these questions.
Shouldn't the ASA have to justify denial, even if you don't agree? The victims deserve at least that and so do officers.
Here's the opinion link:
http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2009/12/28/08-55622.pdf
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Probably a good idea to get rid of tasers altogether. Considering the last time I saw someone get tased, I nearly had a heart attack from laughing so hard at the sight of that motherfucker flopping around the ground like a big 'ol fat Carp. Hahahaha
1/02/2010 04:53:00 PM
T O O F U N N Y !!!!!!!!!!!!!
It was some time back in August of last year I dealt with some bi-pedal animals who decided to shoplift some small items they could not live without. Long story short, brother of this chick starts fighting with my partner then the chick charges me. I take her down and my partners having a problem with the dude. So I draw my Taser and, in so many words, tell him to stop resisting. Seeing the Taser, he gave up instantly. Success! I go back to the chick who is still acting up (she had assaulted 2 employees of the store earlier) so I grab her, Taser in hand and tell her if she acts up again she will be Tased. She stopped acting up instantly. Success! Or so I thought. So a few hours later my Sgt calls me in saying the girls "mother" called to complain about not offering her medical treatment. Well, that got shot down. Next one was another BS complaint that was shot down about a week later. Third attempt at the lotto was that I "pointed the taser at her head." Now I go to IA and have the whole thing reviewed with store security tapes of the altercation. It shows the Taser was never pointed at her head but I STILL got a write up because I used the Taser, pointed at the subject to gain compliance and prevent harm to any involved, in such a way that it "gave a negative impression to the public" while I had it out and pointed at her and walked her 20 feet to my squad. LESSON OF THE STORY: Dont carry a Taser. I ditched that thing the moment that bullshit decision dropped. They didnt get me on the actual complaint but I still got a spanking because the "big bad police office had his scary Taser out in public." I promptly went back to carrying my good old straight stick baton. The world got along a lot better when it was handcuffs, gun and a stick. Now its "here, take this Taser, but dont you use it!" A few of my other fellow officers have had similar incidents when they decided to utilize a Taser in their situation. It makes for a crutch where officers rely on it to work and when it doesnt then thats a big "OH SHIT" usually.
One night a copper friend of mine responds to a shots call. Sees a dude running in the park upon arrival. Its night so he cant see him too well, yells stop and dude keeps running. Cops chase him and catch up to him. Well, this cop tases the dude in the back as hes running. Why didnt he stop? Because he was jogging in the park! hahahaha he had headphones on so he didnt hear the cop yelling at him and got to take "the ride" for no reason. Talk about a surprise! Oh, I about soiled my polyester blue pants that night!
OK, did my first training block with the new decision. Parts of it aren't bad -- used right it can save lives, etc. The scary part is that they waffle over the other stuff -- calling it medium use of force (which is actually kind of generous to law enforcement) and say that other options must be utilized or not feasible first, specifically mentioning pepper spray (as if that always works). Of particular note: (1) Unless impractical, they want a warning before use; and (2) they don't like use on mentally ill people, saying they need a doctor instead of jail (the court's language, not mine).
My take: the decision creates more confusion.
I live on the left (often wrong) coast and I've taken to carrying a PR-24 instead of an ASP. If I'm going to hit someone, I want them to know it. I now refer to the taser as the "belt-mounted yellow paperweight." Someone has to set the 9th circuit straight - they're constantly hampering our efforts to fight crime.
By the way, just wanted to say to SCC fantastic site. I laughed my ass off at all the posts. I cam e (back) out west after 12 years in Chicago but I see that being a cop there is often the same as being a cop here, minus the 9th circuit telling you how to do your job.
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