Residency Again?
Someone at City Hall must be worried because this is still on the front burner. The Sun Times (a wholly owned subsidiary of Shortshanks Inc.) is once again devoting numerous columns to the effects and the possible end of residency:
- Rethinking the Residency Rule
- Neighbors Feel Safer in "Copland"
- Residency Ignored Until Elder Daley Cracked Down
- The Current Candidates Weigh In
We can only assume it's going to keep coming up. Someone somewhere is worried so they're laying the groundwork of public perception early.
Labels: city politics
posted by SCC at 7:01 AM
131 Comments:
They are worried now because we can get it. But not everyone would leave right away some people actually like living in the city especially with the housing market the way it is no one is moving. The house values have gone down hill because of the economy. Now if every city worker put there house up that means more inventory would hit the market causing the values to decrease even more. More supply little demand equals lower prices
The City has good reason to be worried about lifting residency. If city workers (not just us) are allowed to go, a huge number of people are going to put their homes on the market and take a hit financially just to sell.
That means the tax basis for all of that real estate is going to drop. The house sells for less than market value, the real estate taxes have to go down on that now-devalued property. Tax income goes down.
Also, with the stable, employed, law-abiding city workers gone, the new owners might not be so conscientious about paying those lowered real estate taxes. The tax base itself is then threatened.
There would be a tiny one-time upsurge in transfer-tax stamp income for the City, but that would not offset the drop in real estate tax income. Damned right the City is scared.
They are lifting residency in exchange For messing with our pension. Do not accept this offer, you knew when you took this job you had to live in the city. You only have to live in the city for your career but your pension is for the rest of your life. Think about it! Your mindset for this job should be " get in and do your time and get out as soon as possible and enjoy the rest of your life on your pension and deferred comp." you don't want to retire old and only collect the little of pension they will give you for only a couple of months and then crook. They will be saying at your funeral " Joe worked until he was 63 and died 4 months after retirement, but he lived outside of the city!"
Sorry SCC....You say this is a place to blow off steam, well here I go.
I work in 017. How is it? Well Lets just say 5 years cant go by fast enough.
Now I'm not a bad ass. But I am however outspoken and not afraid to speak my mind. Now Having been in the past, embattled with, Joe McMahon, Dulay, Mealer, Barnas and a host of other so called leaders. I have finally realized how small a mind, heart, and soul most White shirts have. Not all.. I said most!
Now granted, I don't do anything more than answer my calls now a days. And that's not how I was trained. I was a good cop once. But however, small minds with empty hearts and no souls have forced me to move in another direction. I used to be good for 1 if not 2 arrests a tour, McMahon ruined that.
I used to write a book a Parker's a day. Dulay ruined that. I used to offer my photography and video services for the Memorial and Police Department, Mealer and Barnas ruined that.
What the hell is wrong with you people?
I have several years of Management experience. I never had to even write a person up up. We were a team, we were stuck together so we made the best of it. My job was to set them up to be successful. Positively reinforce their good habits and coach the habits I thought as a supervisor could be better. And I wasn't always right. That's what built my team. It's called brainstorming. No ego required.
I put a slip in for a Personal day on 12 February 2011 for 29 May 2011. I am a photographer. I have a wedding to shoot. Well today our wonderful charismatic 3rd watch secretary hands it back to me like he is some type of boss and tells me....we only except time due slips 60 days ahead of time. I said it was a personal day and I wasn't aware of any rule.
I boldly said...you guys are a bunch a pussies and walked out of 017. I made a few phone calls and verified there was no such contractual rule.
I then go back to ask the watch commander why my slip for a personal day was denied.
It became a war of words...no real swearing. I will say at least he does have class. I was told that I bitch to much and I am always looking for a fight. My CR record surely reflects that. I haven't had a CR in 10 years. Plus all my citizen complaints surely show that I don't get complaints. But since I have a set a brass balls I am now once again the watch Pahria. I also stated as I have before in the past...If you feel I am out of line, handle it administratively...hell why not even phsych me?
I was told to get out of the Watch Commanders Office. I said wow get out...that's the best you got? I then said... Answer me this Boss....is it contractual or is it just your rule that I can't submit a personal day. W/C's answer: It's my rule I have a watch to run. I'm not accepting your slip.
You know what Boss?....If you empowered people on your watch to take ownership of what they do, you wouldn't have to micro manage them! The watch would run itself.
All this energy wasted. 45 minutes or so??? FOP phone calls because I am not a Scared Little Butt Kisser. All this because you have a watch to run and cant punch 3 holes in a personal day request 3 months in advance and put it in the 3 ring binder. Oh wait, cant the watch secretary do that? Ewwww....But he doesn't like me!
How about trying to build a team? How about restoring ZERO EXISTING MORALE! I would of had more respect for the whole situation if you would a told me to pound sand like a man!
Another 5 years of this romper room nonsense?? I would settle for frustrated at this point....This is just down right pathetic!
So here I go now...wasting more time filing a grievance over something that would of taken all of about one minute for the W/C to do. Wow should I get a CR#?? Naaa I'm to big a person for that. Id rather just call a person out. No wonder why so many Par forms are being filled out in 017. Its no damn fun to work here!
Giuliani 19855 017 Be Safe!
Ok, mass exit ? Before the average cop or fireman buys a new home in the suburbs he or she has to sell the 008th or 016th district "chateau" I think they will need the money not everyone could pull a Rahm off because 1. they don't have 3 million in ill gotten funds in their accounts and 2. where are 9,500 buyers or Rahm type renters moving from Summit? I don't think they sold 9,500 houses in the entire U.S. last year
I think the average citizen would be a little pissed if the company that they worked for was in the city and they were told they had to live in the city to keep their job. Of course, they would say that this is different. Residency should be a personal choice, not forced on anyone. City employees do not have to live in the city to do a good job. What does matter is every employee is treated fairly, clout does not matter , and if you do not do your job, you lose your job. That included police and fire.
I'm going to Tony's to get a meatball sub right now to thank him for sticking up for us.
The wording of the Rahm ruling has them running scared.
and the ONLY firefighter quoted said he loves living in the city and agrees with the residency rule. COME ON
someone is worried.cut or remove our pensions and keep us captive in a free society. who will fill the void if the police/fire/teachers +their families leave the city? we are shackled with paying for all the freebie people here. too many people livin off the land and fewer people pulling the wagon.the people that scorn us....need us the most holds true again.
How do you balance the fate of any neighborhood on the backs of the Police officers that HAVE to live in it?
We are in a new day and age!
This issue needs to be at the front. This city is imploding with residency. Have you seen whats walking around in 16 and 008?
Lift it. Detroit didn't fall because of residency. IT fell due to the race issues in place way before that. Anyone usung the "Detroit" excuse really has no clue.
There is not going to be a mass exodous. The housing market is Fubar'd. I guarantee if they lift it people are not going to be fleeing. Most people who have kids and have established their homes aint leaving. It's all smoke and mirrors.
Let me live where I want like the constitution and every other city except milwaukee in the nation does. How can it be good for every other place in the country except 2?
Everyone keeps thinking that residency can be eliminated by the election. It is not a contractual agreement, IT'S A LAW. It will have to overturned by legislation or the courts.
Now is the time to push it. NUMEROUS suburbs have taken their residency requirements to court, and every one i know of have won and had their residency overturned.
What is the worry Scum-Times, most of your liberal readers hate us and claim we are the problem in their community and would love to get rid of us. Residency is all about segregation. I will be one of those city workers who move and will watch Rome burn!
Our homes in the city are worth very little under the Obama ecomomy. Many homeowners (even responsible ones) are underwater. If residency is repealed, our homes will be worth even less. We won't be able to afford to move.
The Sun Times has about as much credibility as Baghdad Bob, the former Iraqi propaganda minister. Pravda may have been more independent of the Russian Confederacy than the Sun Times is of City Hall.
I read the Tribune.
So with less than 10% of the citys population comprised of city workers what's the big deal if they can leave? Less than half of that will leave anyway. Chicago will not turn into detroit since the city is not dependent on one specific industry as its tax base. City workers are merely a drop in the bucket as far as taxes generated for chicago.
If I have to live and spend my money in this fucking city then the city should have to as well.
In today's Suntimes there is another minotiry contract sccandal. They list companies that had contracts with this guys. One of the them is the company that removes snow from the airports. This fucking comapany is from New York!!!
How come we are told we should live here and spend our money here but yet all these contracts the city signs are with coompanies outside the city, county, state, and even the country.
The fucking parking meter are owned by the state owned arm of Abu Dhabi!!!!!! Nice to see a large chunk of the profits that this 75 year bullshit generates does not even stay in this country.
And they want you to piss more an more of your money back into this city.
Let it burn
It would be nice during this onslaught of hatred towards first responder and our pensions if the Unions would simply explain we CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE HERE!
(ot) STOP RAHM LOOK HERE!
http://justnotrahm.com/
All must reside in the proper ward while laboring for the Party! Chairman Shortshanks must control you. You are not free men! You serve the Party, not yourselves!
The Constitution is an evil document that puts improper thoughts of rights and freedoms in the heads of men. It must be destroyed! All weapons must be registered for collection. Cameras must monitor all movement. Children must be re-educated and raised to support the Party.
Any movement outside the People's Republic of Chicago is forbidden. All must shop at approved Party stores and reside in approved Party wards. When our glorious Chairman Shortshanks retires, Chairman Ballerino will enforce these rules more strictly. No pensions will be allowed. All must work for life for the good of the Party.
Residency will end within the next 3-4 years. Anyone new on the job or renting an apartment hold off on buying a house. Taxes may be higher in the burbs but the schools are better and city services are better. Wilmette here I come. I've been saving for this for 12 years.
Perhaps the department should give training in basic economics.
Restrictions on a buyer (ie. Must live in city) is a benefit to the sellers who satisfy the restriction. This means that the buyer paid more for the home than he otherwise would have, if there was no restriction. In other words, if the buyer wasn't limited to a city home, then the city sellers would have to lower their price to compete with other sellers in the surrounding area.
If you bought a home in the city, then it is in your best interest to hold future buyers to the same restriction. Why so many cops want to give an advantage to future city workers at their own expense is beyond me.
I hope that noone really believes that any candidate is going to lift residency. Our best hope is through an incremental process say at 25 years you can move out and then drop to 20 years etc...
How about instead of residency- a property tax brake. An example is FL disabled vets get so much off depending upon their disability. Why not for law enforcement and firefighters. Get the 2 unions together and draft the bill for the County.Give solutiuons not just gripe-Semper Fi
new clout category: those who stayed
NO:
Drinkers
Pissers
2.5 grams or less
If this is in writing, the superintendent is giving us a directive to not enforce the law.
Shields and the boys were at the airport. McCarthy looks like a good guy!
Mike was talking about some good points but, he is running for FOP not the pension board. The ideas he has should have been done at the pension board that would given him some credibility.
We’re going with experience. Bella and citywide team!
after reading four sun times articles:
"I'm afraid.
I'm afraid, Dave.
Dave, my mind is going.
I can feel it.
I can feel it.
My mind is going.
There is no question about it.
I can feel it.
I can feel it.
I can feel it.
I'm a... fraid.
"Neighbors Feel Safer In 'Copland.'"
Is it a nice neighborhood because the police live there, or do the police live there because it is a nice neighborhood?
I THOUGHT WE WERE THE OVER PAID CORRUPT POLICE THAT STEAL PENSION!
FUNNY, U READ THE PAPER AND EVERYONE HATES US BUT SUDDENLY EVERYONE IS WORRIED ABOUT R FAMILIES MONEY AND HOW WE SPEND IT.
AND
IS THE CITY SO SAFE THAT IF WE LEAVE IT WOULD BECOME DETROIT?
SO WHAT DO THE FOP CANDIDATES WEIGH IN ON THIS?
THE CITY DOESNT NEED THE REAL POLICE ANYMORE ALL THEY NEED R BLUE LIGHT CAMERAS.
Meanwhile- our cost of living is screaming upward and we get less and less of our paychecks!!!!
I am so glad our PUSSY FOP asks for 4% every contract and the City offers 0%- so the settlement gets split and BINGO, a nice fat 2% raise.
I asked one of our FOP idiots why they don't use the "start high" approach and my answer was "6 or 7 percent is not resonable".....The City offering 0% is though I guess.
Residency will not happen while we are on the job- FOP can't get enough balls to ask for a fair raise- do you really think these stank-finger numbnuts will get us out of this crime infested shithole? LOL- not in my lifetime!
Let's win a court case with Rahm Emmanuel's Supreme Court ruling using one of our officers as a test case. Then once we win the ruling allowing officers to leave, we negotiate in our contract incentives to keep police officers in the city.
Lower property taxes
School vouchers
Free city sticker
Cost of Living increase in city
Lower water bill
Those are just some of the negotiating tools we could use. Rahm set rules with the Supreme Court ruling and the ruling stated that the court would have to apply the same standards to municipal police and fire. Rahm screwed it up and now we will benefit.
Proponents of the residency requirement always claim that if the city is good enough to to employ you, than it it good enough to live in.
The city is advertising for private bids for recycling collections that state the neither the company nor its employees must live in the city. If private contractors' employees can live outside the city, why can't city employees?
The taxpayers didn't care when billions and billions of dollars left the city for Abu Dubai in the parking meter deal, why do they care where city employees live?
"Inconsistently enforced but consistently controversial, Chicago’s residency rule dates back to 1919, when Ald. J.H. Smith (14th) first introduced the idea to the City Council. By a vote of 63-1, Chicago employees were ordered to live in the city."
*********************************
HOLY CRAP ! ! !
You mean there used to be 64 of these idiots on the City Council?
Public perception is bullshit! The stupid sheeple believe that the greedy police and fire departments are bankrupting the state. They are going to vote away our pension without a second thought....they feel safe living in "Copland" because we keep them safe on and off duty. ENOUGH! I don't steal money from drug dealers, I don't take what I'm not supposed to, I don't beat people, I do my job and take the insults from the ignorant masses because of the pension waiting for me in the end, most of us do, and you want to take it from us? Off duty, I will still help my family, all others can call 911....
Should city employees be allowed to move to the suburbs? The candidates for mayor weigh in:
Gery Chico: Maybe we'll discuss it.
Rahm Emanuel: Maybe... (but No).
Miguel del Valle: No.
Carol Moseley Braun: No.
William “Dock” Walls III: No.
Patricia Van-Pelt Watkins: (DUH!) Would like more time to research the issue.
It's not gonna change why does it keep coming up? Obama is so far up our city and states ass what ever they want they'll get.
Lift it and compensate.
What move to Orland or Tinley and your taxes double triple, thank you no Die hard South Sider.
Largest Departments
New York PD - No residency
LAPD - No residency
Houston PD - No residency
Phoenix PD - No residency
Philadelphia PD - No residency
Cleveland PD - No residency
Name the one and only major city with residency
Chicago
,
Why should the citizens care? This city is so great according to the media. It should not matter where us lonely servants reside.
Daley closed and tore down the housing projects and shipped the section 8 out, how's that working out for you Tinley Park?
So why can we simple servants not move out of the expensive city, King Daley all ready got his meter money.
Yeah just like the perception that meeting with murderous thugs curbed the violent crime
OT--
Customs and Border Protection Denies 'Weapon Of Mass Effect' Was Found In United States Port
By Michael Sheridan
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Monday, February 14th 2011, 1:20 PM
The denial comes on the heels of a report by ABC 10 News in San Diego over the weekend in which a CBP official suggests authorities have previously uncovered a "nuclear device."
Al Hallor, a CBP officer and assistant director at the Port of San Diego, was in the midst of an exchange with reporter Mitch Blacher when his remark was made.
"So, specifically, you're looking for the dirty bomb? You're looking for the nuclear device?" asked Blacher, according to an unedited video of the interview.
"Correct. Weapons of mass effect," Hallor replied.
"You ever found one?" asked Blacher.
Hallor hesitates in the video, then said, "Not at this location."
"But they have found them?" Blacher asked.
"Yes, well..." said Hallor, before being interrupted by another CBP official who was off camera...
http://www.nydailynews.com/news
/national/2011/02/14/2011-02-
14_customs_and_border_protection_
officer_suggests_weapon_of_mass_
effect_found_in_us.html
If the loss of 8000 police and a few thousand firemen as city residents, in a city of approx three million would cause the dissemination of the city then we're already fucked.
59yrs born and lived in Chicago, in my opinion after 29yrs as a city worker required to live in...whatever deal a guy running for office promises before election about setting you free to live outside the city is just never going to happen....come on you know it would be the death of CHICAGO dollarwise and that would absolutely kill pensions of any kind. Be prepared to stay put until retired...then you won't be so disappointed! KMA says Chico lied
anyone hear about two po's that were critically injured in a car crash yesterday I read a brief article in the paper in regards to it but have not heard anything else
Hell Daley seems to be in China half the time so it must be okay to live out of state of even out of country and serve as Mayor right?
I would not be surprised if Ralm were to rule the city from California or even Israel where he provided service during the Gulf war.
As we all know though, these people have a dictionary where the words have different meanings than the rest of us.
From the president on down words, contracts, and laws with twisted meanings. Illegal immigrants are not illegal they are undocumented aliens instead. Oral sex is not sex it depends on what the definition of "is" -- is.
This residency law is like many of the other laws only to be used against the churls of society. It's like the laws on immigration for example where the social economic elite get to pick and choose where and when the law will be enforced. It's like the laws and regulations regarding banking and the bailouts. Time and again stories are reported about the banking FRAUDS. They even use the word fraud in congress yet no-one in the banking elite is even being charges with a criminal act.
Here it comes, Fucked by the Illinois Irish Politician Mob again...
So here I go now...wasting more time filing a grievance over something that would of taken all of about one minute for the W/C to do. Wow should I get a CR#?? Naaa I'm to big a person for that. Id rather just call a person out. No wonder why so many Par forms are being filled out in 017. Its no damn fun to work here!
Giuliani 19855 017 Be Safe!
2/14/2011 08:05:00 AM
-
Hey, G, I feel for you. Between what you describe, and the stand-up temp commander you've got, it's going to be a hellish time in 017 for the foreseeable future.
Of course you'll win the grievance, but this isn't how one builds a positive work environment. They just don't get it.
ALL DEMOCRATS ARE €OMMUNISTS SAYS:
Imam obammo, Rahmmie, Quinn, daley, Madigoon and Dirt-bin will soon destroy whats left of Chicago, Crook county,and Felonois. Get out while you can, seriously. Go to another state that is solvent and does not strip away the Taxpayers savings, property, constitutional rights, and valuables, day after day after day. Crookago, Crook County, and Felon-ois are too far gone to ever recover, especially under Democommiecrat Leadership. The state is ust a So€ialist Me€€a now, just like they planned it.
RE 9:15am
"Everyone keeps thinking that residency can be eliminated by the election. It is not a contractual agreement, IT'S A LAW. It will have to overturned by legislation or the courts."
The LAW you speak of only applies to THE ABILITY TO ARBITRATE residency in municipalities of 1 million plus....
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs3.asp?ActID=108&ChapterID=2
check out section 14 (i)
However, you are correct in the statement that all who have challenged residency requirements have been successful in the courts
I'll never be able to sell and get out of this hell hole called Chicago if they lift residency. Real estate market sucks anyway, and I owe more than the house is currently worth. If the only legitimate market for homes goes away (city employees) I may as well resign myself to never leaving, and just buy more ammo.
Anonymous said...
and the ONLY firefighter quoted said he loves living in the city and agrees with the residency rule. COME ON
2/14/2011 08:56:00 AM
Look who his kid is friends with. The same Quinn family who fills up the CPD with do nothing, know it alls. The ones who have not earned one thing on this job (Tim,Bojan) who have a dip shit brother running for alderman - and you soon see the connections. Funny thing is, Daley went to "D" not Rita. Yep it is all legit, just like the only CFD guy who likes living in the city just happens to have a Daley hacks kid in the story too.
Haven't you "drop residency" people figured out how things work in chicago yet? It doesn't matter how the court ruled for Rahm. Their ruling only applies to Rahm and the other powerfull types like him. It will never apply to us. There will always be different rules for the clouted and powerfull. The court will spin their reasons why it does not apply to us and life will go on. The only way residency will be lifted is if Rahm lets it. Also, Rahm wants everyone to take a hit on the pension, but no one asks Rahm what he will sacrifice and just how much pension money he is up for. He's a fake, phoney, and snake. Be very afraid of him.
With Rahm as mayor we will see the cluture of clout and corruption surpass the levels of Daley with lightening speed.
Roe Conn on wls radio should get paid by the city. All he does is carry their water. He is such a little bitch.
The same Chicago residents that hate us and never want to see us get a raise and want us to lose our pensions which they wrongly feel are too much, DO NOT want you to be able to leave the city. They know that this city would be fucked if all city workers fled. The tax base would be gone therby forcing the richy liberal types to pay more. I personally do not want it lifted because i wouldnt sell my house for shit but that being said I want it talked about, I want a stipend for living here, or no property tax. SOMETHING! The point is the regular chicago citizen wants us fucked pay wise, pension wise, and residency wise and its time we as a group got off of our lazy asses and VOTE. If you jagoffs sit on your computer on election day instead of voting then youre all a bunch of fucking idiots. STOP fucking whining and VOTE. And while im on it send your FOP ballots back too. last FOP election, less than 40% of actives voted. PATHETIC
Off Topic but breaking news. Our inexperienced Temporary Acting (and still unconfirmed) Director of the State Police resigned today. Have a Happy Valentines Day.
The sad thing about this whole stupid time due slip thing....
The FOP told me they contacted 017. FOP was told by the W/C the slip for a personal day was denied because they didnt want it to get lost. I was told by FOP just turn it in 60 days before the 29th of May. Because then it wont get lost right? Wow they really fought for me SHEW. I dont have to wonder why things are the way they are anymore. I feel very sad and bad for the younger cops on this job. No prob you win Boss. You really showed me on this one. Congratulations. My morale is at an all time high now. Thank you for setting me up for success. Thank You for making it a great place to work. My Bad! Giuliani
The vendors should be audited to see if they are provideng the best price for services/products the City/State requisition. If it can be purchased at retail by an ordinary citizen for less money, then that is how the City/State should make the purchase. I feel vendors have been overcharging for years and being overpaid as the middle men in every City or State government deal. The vendors connections to government should be investigated.
Please stop worrying and even talking about the residency issue. The pension issue is the priority right now. Which means VOTE CHICO!
Every one of us must force our parents and kids and cousins and neighbors to vote for Chico. Make everyone aware that these polls are bullcrap and are being touted by the Tribune and the Suntimes, who are publicly backing Rahm.
Rahm is NOT in the lead. The press is saying that he is, only to encourage voters to become uninspired and not want to vote.
Any retired police and fire with Chicago IDs, get here and vote, or hope you did absentee ballot.
Please tell everyone that the press is lying and that they must vote for Chico. Make Chico the 50 percent plus 1 and let's slam this election down Rahm and Obama's throat.
Also let everyone know that Obama wants Rahm in Chicago so he can use Chicago to be the first big city to function under Obamacare socialism health plan. This is another reason we need Chico now!
I will just walk away from my condo mortgage since I'm already approved for a second mortgage with my wife. You think I care about these morons that bought a house in Edison Park, Garfield Ridge, or Mount Greenwood years ago for nothing than expected to retire off it by selling it to another city worker for triple what its worth??? I want more bang for my buck, and if that means walking away from a mortgage in the city to be able to by a new home in the burbs than so be it. My home isnt my nestegg and to all of you that thought your's was than shame on you, lean to invest and save properly instead of trying to rape some poor young city worker than has to live in the city. I love it, bring on the burbs!
The issue goes beyond simply residency. This was an issue that should have been ours to decide following the Rockford decision several years ago. The fact that the Illinois Legislature wrote the law to impact and restrict us and us alone, shows the malice of the Cook County Democrat Party, Madigan and Cullerton, Daley and now Rahm; and the incompetence of the FOP, since they should have taken up this issue years ago. Now we are trapped because of the current housing market, and worse yet our children are trapped in over priced parochial schools or sub-standard public schools. Take note, no Daley has ever attended a Chicago Public School. Can you afford Ignatus or Loyola Academy on a patrolman's salary? Boycott Cook County, do all of your shopping and spending outside of Cook County. Fight back, and when those mopes from the FOP tell you to back Lisa Madigan because then you'll get 80%, like they did when she first ran; tell them to fuck themselves. Vote the Shields Ticket.
2/14/2011 08:05:00 AM
You got balls, to bad you were not fop president!
A great video of 38 very very short:
http://fuckrahm.com/
TRP
we still can't leave this shithole state so it wouldn't do much good.
Keep votin Democrat
Damn it...I keep offering this up as a plan but no response. Here it is again...AFTER 10 YRS WORKERS ARE FREE FROM RESIDENCY!!!!! How hard is that! There is NO reason this cant be done. That way the dreaded "exodus" so many of you WRONGLY worry about will not happen. It will be a "trickle" effect. Again..there is NO reason this compromise would nt work!
It's official, fax is out. Melissa Staples Commander of 17. Have fun with her, she will be a breath of Fresh air after the other clown that just left. Congrats Melissa
How about trying to build a team? How about restoring ZERO EXISTING MORALE! I would of had more respect for the whole situation if you would a told me to pound sand like a man!
Another 5 years of this romper room nonsense?? I would settle for frustrated at this point....This is just down right pathetic!
So here I go now...wasting more time filing a grievance over something that would of taken all of about one minute for the W/C to do. Wow should I get a CR#?? Naaa I'm to big a person for that. Id rather just call a person out. No wonder why so many Par forms are being filled out in 017. Its no damn fun to work here!
Giuliani 19855 017 Be Safe!
2/14/2011 08:05:00 AM
Sorry but his "rule" doesnt trump the contract, so....submit and make yourself a copy. Signed a Patrol Captain.
P.S. You might want to drop a copy of the FOP contract in the mail to your W/C. BTW, that shit wont last long, you have a new Commander MS that won't tolerate that.
Whats the big deal, shortshanks lives in Michigan but has an address in Chicago . He even has a CPD security detail in Michigan who are not allowed to do police work.
I agree with the earlier poster… residency is coming at the cost of taking a huge portion of the pension. It’s not worth it!! Where are you and your family going to go? You can only go as far your commute to work will allow— What? Are you going to drive two or three hours each way just to move away? Moving any closer is irrational. The beast is transient and can get to you, and they can live near you anywhere, especially since many newer developments have a certain number of homes that couldn’t be sold offered up to Section8. If you doubt me, check it out. The closer burbs may be a little better in terms of fewer regular encounters with neighborhood nitwits, but the costs that will be incurred will be substantial. There are extra taxes, higher assessments and higher priced housing, costs that will not be made up in the hopeful sale of your home in the City. And, in exchange for being allowed to move across the street you will give up a sizable portion of your pension and pay/contribute a higher portion into the fund. Face it; it is NOT an equitable trade. That is lose… lose. The City failed to pay their portion into the pension fund. In essence they stole your pension monies. And now, the City wants us to pay more into the fund, and take a smaller stipend out of the fund to make up for their failure. I am not willing to do that, and neither should you. We were guaranteed a nominal pension when we took this job, and for those already employed are guaranteed it; unless you give it up in exchange for a negotiated contractual benefit. As long as you are employed by the City you will not be free to live wherever you want, they can impose distance limits; many suburbs have. You will have to live close and… once again, what’s the point? Screw the residency… save our pension!!! We all know it’s likely going to be Rahm we have to contend with, at least lets tell him to stick the residency allowance up his ass and to get the hell out of our pension…. Right after the State forces him to pay us back all that his politician friends stole.
"and the ONLY firefighter quoted said he loves living in the city and agrees with the residency rule. COME ON
2/14/2011 08:56:00 AM"
WHY WOULDN'T HE? HE ONLY SLEEPS THERE 3 DAYS A WEEK, THE REST OF HIS TIME IS SPENT @ HIS CONDO IN FLORIDA OR HIS CABIN IN WISCONSIN
This residency issue is a difficult one. I was looking at several suburbs and the cost of the homes. The property taxes, cost of water/garbage. Yes, it will cost substancially more to have a 708 or 630 area code.
I thought I had about 7 years to go, and now Im not so sure. Depending on where the economy goes(IMO- we havent seen the worst of it yet) Starting to think that I will have to work 16 more years.
How about when you hit 58, you can be free from the city resideny rules? Its technically the last 5 years before the mandatory retirement age.
Suspect thats gonna change also.
Ot. I had an appointment at the medical section today, I was told the lot was full because j-fled had a press conference today, and all the press and other ass wipes were parked in our CPD lot. I who was injured on duty and having trouble walking, had to park on the street pay for parking and walk to the medical section. They could have saved 5 spaces for the men and women who serve this ungrateful fucking city...thank you.
Sure go ahead move to the suburbs. All of you constantly bitch about the housing market. just wait til you pay about 3 times property taxes in the burbs. They always need more money to build new schools, new police department, fire department...
You won't have the luxury of having good plowed streets during winter and you'll be spending about 10 hours longer in your car and with gas near $3.50 a gallon you'll be wasting more gas while sitting on I-90 trying to get thru the toll booth.
Be careful the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
I'll sell my little mount Greenwood house to whomever then move my ass to indiana say less for everything and never look back!
Anonymous said...
They are lifting residency in exchange For messing with our pension.
I agree. They will dangle this in front of us to take something away!
Giuliani
I totally agree with your complaints regarding your Personal Day/Time Due slip.
Regardless of who the Supervisor (Commander, Captain, Lieutenant, Sergeant) is, they should have taken your card and after its approval, put it into a file/binder.
In my experience in supervising it has always paid me back well by taking good care of my personnel. When your guys/girls notice that you are approachable & really care they will follow you into battle & give you more every day.
On occasion there are some who take advantage of a compassionate boss, however, it does not take long to figure out who is more deserving of consideration. I learned fr4om a few mistakes & rarely made the same mistake more than one or two times.
I hope you obtain your day off, good luck & be safe.
Retired & living the good life...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Ot. I had an appointment at the medical section today, I was told the lot was full because j-fled had a press conference today, and all the press and other ass wipes were parked in our CPD lot. I who was injured on duty and having trouble walking, had to park on the street pay for parking and walk to the medical section. They could have saved 5 spaces for the men and women who serve this ungrateful fucking city...thank you.
2/14/2011 05:11:00 PM
You should have called the Med section on your cell phone and told them you cannot park and are unable to walk long distances. If they did not make accommodations for you then leave, go home and call FOP. They are supposed to have spots available at 35th St for POs on the medical who cannot walk far due to their condition.
Anonymous said...
It's official, fax is out. Melissa Staples Commander of 17. Have fun with her, she will be a breath of Fresh air after the other clown that just left. Congrats Melissa
2/14/2011 04:47:00 PM
Merit, Merit, Merit But she's a Good Gal, Good Gal. Why not pick a non merit that is a breath of fresh air? There are a bunch of them.
"I'll sell my little mount Greenwood house to whomever then move my ass to indiana say less for everything and never look back!"
--2/14/2011 05:22:00 PM
Just be sure to get the best and biggest snow blower on the market, and maybe a tracked Antarctic exploration vehicle to replace the family car in the winter. Keep in mind -- it's like the weather almost respects the political boundary. You step across that state line into Lake or Porter County, or up by Niles/Berrien, Mich., AND YOU GET BURIED by the lake effect snows. There were plenty of times just this winter when it was clear here while Indiana was getting a foot or two of snow.
With all the problems, Chicago still isn't a bad place to live as far as weather -- a lot more rain and snow goes by us to the north and to the south than hits us.
Interesting local patterns -- the last couple of times I got soaked by a summer thunderstorm, I was up in Niles -- there's kind of a "track" through there.
No offense...but the suburbs are way better at snow-plowed streets than the City of Chicago...most of them anyway!!!
NO:
Drinkers
Pissers
2.5 grams or less
If this is in writing, the superintendent is giving us a directive to not enforce the law.
______________________________________
There is already a published general order to overlook the illegal alien thing even though it directly contradicts the oath we swore when we graduated.
LOL, I swear to uphold the constitution of the United States...
So when someone starts spouting that "you took an oath bullshit," they can shove it straight up their ass because we cannot even uphold our own oath because some asshole is afraid to piss off a certain voting block.
Yes you can get fired for doing your job that you SWORE to do.
You won't have the luxury of having good plowed streets during winter and you'll be spending about 10 hours longer in your car and with gas near $3.50 a gallon you'll be wasting more gas while sitting on I-90 trying to get thru the toll booth.
Be careful the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
BS! BS! BS! Do not believe these scare tactics for a new york minute. I retired and now live in the burbs and I know that this is nothing but scare tactic bullshit!
OT: Do not park on Garland Ct when going to traffic court. Bt 120 is ordering PO's to ticket marked vehicles there, especially avoid the marked spaces "For News & TV Vehicles Only"
My guess is 120 had no choice, a TV crew beefed and he got called.
Your marked blue & white police vehicle may get ticketed. Ask how I know.
On the other hand, as far as parking courtesy for TV/News trucks goes, there isn't any. Hammer those fuckers wherever you see them illegally parked.
Ya know, I'm pretty tired of hearing all the "in over their heads" homeowners on here. You're bitching that the people that might benefit from from a better quality of life outside this shithole shouldn't discuss residency because you would lose money on your upside down mortgages?
Well guess what, maybe you should have bought a smaller home and lived within your means. Or not paid AT LEAST TWICE the price for a house that if it were across the border, wouldn't fetch HALF of what it would because it was in 016 or 022!
Just a few years ago, MANY of you were BRAGGING about how much your 3BR Cape Cod or Bungalow was worth SOOOOO MUCH MONEY. Well, not anymore. Maybe you should have invested it in deferred instead of your "mansion" and most of you would be much better off.I still did about a 20% return last quarter, even in this economy!
Anyone who didn't see the collapse of the real estate market was a fool! Property value was increasing by 20-30% a year, but wages were going up an average of 4%!? Who would have been able to afford to buy your house anyway? Gee, maybe some of you should have stayed awake in Economics 101!
And while I'm sure there will some sort of give back, NOTHING has even been discussed yet. And as for the burbs that have repealed residency, some do have a distance clause. But I don't know of one that had to "give" anything back. AGAIN, it's NOT a contractual agreement subject to negotiations, IT'S A LAW. They went to the courts or arbitration, which we should have done long ago.
So please, quit tryin to give false information in an attempt to sway other peoples' wishes to save your failed investments. If you want to stay in the city, FINE. But some of us wouldn't mind paying a little extra just to improve our quality of life. And I truly believe that not as many people would "flee" as being thrown around here.
All that's being said in the election is there can be "talk" about the topic. That's as good as being told "get fucked" anyway!
Careful what you wish for. The grass isn't greener on the other side. It's just different grass...
NO:
Drinkers
Pissers
2.5 grams or less
If this is in writing, the superintendent is giving us a directive to not enforce the law.
2/14/2011 12:20:00 PM
It was in writing in e-mail form, sent to our Tact Secretary.
Staples is the commander of 017. So lemmie guess she's going to be the next scourge in the long list of crappy commanders in albany park.
Have you guys ever liked any commander of 017?
fix that shirt, its not regulation.
Giuliani 19855 017 Be Safe!
2/14/2011 08:05:00 AM
come back to grand central greg, i always thought u were a good guy, oops just realized one of the guys u named is here! anyone best wishes cugino!
To: 5:14
My family lives in the suburbs and there streets were plowed. They pay a little more in taxes than me, but there schools are excellent. I will no longer pay almost $20,000.00 a year to send my kids to private schools. I will also not have to pay into property taxes for schools that I can not use. In my current area the public school is based on a lottery system to get in; what the f^&k is that? Screw this city and its pimp politicians.
If residency is lifted you will give something else up in return.......you will not get residency easy, so watch what you ask for.
Yep, 17 is full of crapweasel bosses. A certain 3rd watch sgt regularly goes after a female on the 2nd watch bc her husband stood up to his arrogant bs yrs ago, never ends in this place.
Sorry. I bought a place I could afford, and if residency is lifted I would be GONE!
class action suit against the city for non payment of pension monies promised. f-em.
Irony...
Since The Police have been branded by the public and the media as the enemy, why are these people lined up elbow to asshole on the curb cheering the "Fuck The Police and Their Concerns" parade as it goes by?
Why all the hand wringing, jaw-jacking and rubber-necking, "where are the Police and what are they about to do?"
We get it already! Silly, scared, selfish little children...
Times are hard and you're looking to scapegoat anyone who you think might "get away" in life with an extra nickel that they earned that you wished was in your pocket.
Damn The Police for having (hard won, negotiated for, signed off on in good faith to provide service and foregoing the right to strike based on mutual interests and demonstration of good faith by The Police AND the employer) a guaranteed pension and benefits "...while we're eating our 401K's."
We recall hearing plenty of shit-talk when times were "good."
"You stupid, high school drop-out coppers busting your asses for
$70K, we make twice that and have $500K in stocks & our 401K and we have a $750K house/condo in the 'burbs while you live in a shack in the city. HA-HA, sucks to be you, coppers!"
...Then everything rapidly went to absolute, flaming shit.
That house/condo losing nearly half it's overinflated value.
Stocks & 401K turned into ass-wipe.
That company you worked for either tanking or shedding/offshoring jobs like a mofo.
"Shit! Who can we scapegoat for our problems?"
"Hey y'all! Crime King Shorty says the greedy coppers pensions and benefits are why our taxes are high, our homes are devalued and we're using our worthless stocks to wipe our asses with!"
Daley Inc. has executed the perfect distractor and propaganda coup with the able assistance of the analwhore local media stooges who make the Soviet era Pravda apparatchiks weep with joy and longing.
We railed constantly to all within ear shot.
The Public has turned their backs on The Police and greet the "catered to constituents" as conquering heroes.
Funny how the residency issue has reduced so many people to raving, tongue-chewing lunatics.
"Fuck The Police and their concerns but don't let 'em escape."
"We're doing everything we can to take everything from you just because we lost everything too."
Misery trying it's best to hold it's company hostage purely for misery's sake.
Yeah... We get it.
Thanks for electing and re-electing a stuttering, vengeful village idiot as mayor for the last 22 years.
He's shit on everyone's aspirations and dreams who wouldn't kiss his ass.
May as well say The Police orchestrated that one too.
pensions matter.
residency is only an inconvienance
SO IM SUPPOSED TO TAKE ADVICE FROM GUYS WHO PAID TO MUCH FOR THERE HOUSE AND PROBABLY ARE PUTTING A MINUSCULE AMOUNT IN DEFERRED COMP.
U WORRY ABOUT SELLING UR HOUSE AND DONT GET IT MIXED UP WITH R CONTRACT.
AND PLEASE CUT THE CRAP ABOUT ALL THE BAD PEOPLE TAKING OVER. DO U TRULY CARE?
AND U PROBABLY DONT VOTE!
To the poster critical of the individual who plans to move to Indiana. I hope you are a citizen and not the police because you sound like a HUGE PUSSY. "Oh no! They get SNOW in Indiana! I would rather stay in Chicago because then a snowplow will save me from cannibalism when we get a real accumulation of snow once every five years!" Idiot.
Lift residencey for the guy about to retire or do it by senority. They could let a percentage of guys go per year, without drianing the city all at once.
Staples is the commander of 017. So lemmie guess she's going to be the next scourge in the long list of crappy commanders in albany park.
Have you guys ever liked any commander of 017?
Yes the late John Thomas , Kathy Kajari
I don't know what you're all complaining about!
"The Suburbs" by the Arcade Fire was just vote album of the year.
Residency will never happen and just let it be. We wont get it free if it does. Forgo a raise and we still cant move bc our houses arent worth sh-t and getting a second mortgage through a bank wont happen. Would you give in to pension legislation for residency. You would be a fool if u did. Lets not play into their hands. Take our raises as small as they may be and as aoon as u retire leave and enjoy what u worked ao hatd for......your pension. Im not giving mine up and i hope u dont either. Its agreat political move bc they can come back and say well u wanted it but now youre not leaving what does it take to please you people. And dont foeget to vote for the fop elections no matter who you vote for. Just vote.
3 Hired Truck firms paid to clear snow. Sun-Times Report
Right to the Very End. Make sure you stump for Chico so this nonsense will be able to continue for another Century.
J-Fled wonders why the morale is getting WORSE everyday...we have to put up with these shitty bosses who ask us for EVERYTHING and give us NOTHING! FUCK YOU white shirts!!!
"I work in 017. How is it? Well Lets just say 5 years cant go by fast enough....
Man, brother, just bid somewhere else..... 025, 015, 011, 007, 006
or like what Drill Sgt used to say "suck it up and drive on, candy ass!!!"
What will FOP do on the residency fight?
What they always do:
I believe that the City Law Dept did some research and came to the consensus that residency is loser legal argument. A court would throw it out.
So FOP will "negotiate" with the City and "win" a change. They will give something Away to get something they could have had for nothing.
I will just walk away from my condo mortgage since I'm already approved for a second mortgage with my wife.
Yeah you're real smart, you think you can walk away from one piece of paper while your name is on another?
Sorry, but they will just put a lien on the second mortgage so you should probably forget that idea Einstein...
Anonymous said...
How about trying to build a team? How about restoring ZERO EXISTING MORALE! I would of had more respect for the whole situation if you would a told me to pound sand like a man!
Another 5 years of this romper room nonsense?? I would settle for frustrated at this point....This is just down right pathetic!
So here I go now...wasting more time filing a grievance over something that would of taken all of about one minute for the W/C to do. Wow should I get a CR#?? Naaa I'm to big a person for that. Id rather just call a person out. No wonder why so many Par forms are being filled out in 017. Its no damn fun to work here!
Giuliani 19855 017 Be Safe!
2/14/2011 08:05:00 AM
The 60 day rule is BS!! What if you're trying to plan a trip? I book my shit 6 months out sometimes or more. The problem lies with your w/c and w/secretary. They are so damn inept that they can't even keep track of stuff more than 3 months out. That's sick man. I'd bitch too. I recently put in time for july in my district... no problem. Like you said, just punch 3 holes in it and stick in the binder. What is so hard about that?
Anonymous said...
Ot. I had an appointment at the medical section today, I was told the lot was full because j-fled had a press conference today, and all the press and other ass wipes were parked in our CPD lot. I who was injured on duty and having trouble walking, had to park on the street pay for parking and walk to the medical section. They could have saved 5 spaces for the men and women who serve this ungrateful fucking city...thank you.
2/14/2011 05:11:00 PM
Did you tell that to the PO in the entrance shack? The few times I had trouble walking due to medical conditions I spoke up and they put me in the front row. I wouldn't walk far if unable to do so.
Have you guys ever liked any commander of 017?
Yes!! Pardon me if I spell their names incorrectly!
Kujari & Frost were both exceptionally nice and pleasant to work for! Made work tollerable. That was GOLDEN to me!
Giuliani 017
Dear Retired & living the good life...
Thanks for the words of wisdom! I always look up to a brother or sister who is now retired.
God Bless and lotsa checks. If you email me your info I will send you a complete set of DVD's containing about 10 videos I have made for the Gold Star Families.
Thanks Again! Giuliani MMIM@Ameritech.net
To 8:57pm
Bullshit! Go move to a suburb like Lindenhurst which is so overcrowded that they had to build a school just for 4th and 5th grade. see what kind of education your kids would get then.
And next time there is a snowstorm you are more then welcome to come join me on my tour of the surburbs and then wonderful snow removal they have. then you can tell me what a great job they do. Unless you have driven thru multiple burbs then you can talk.
Right to the Very End. Make sure you stump for Chico so this nonsense will be able to continue for another Century.
2/14/2011 11:46:00 PM
yeah, much better to submit to a rahming.
The problem lies not with us, it is on the shoulders of our elected officials, political cronies, and personal favors that are made into bosses with the city after retirement. IE; Little Tommy Byrne, Orozco, yes even Mauer, the list is endless. These leeches retired with pensions in excess of $100,000.00. Now they are "appointed" to new positions because of their expertise (BULL SH**). Their new position merits over $100,000.00 in salary, plus another pension and benefits. YOU ASS HATS RETIRED STAY GONE!!! The jobs they hold are supreme cronyism, and unnecessary, they bleed more funds that could stay with the city and take care of All regular city workers, not just Police and Fire. And the RAT politicians and their WAR chests, these are easy wasys to bail out the pension funds and city debt, but these mongers hold their tightened fingers around this CASH, knowing it is theirs on exit! Upper management on EVERY city department outweighs and stifles middle management and for no apparent reason other than a made up position via the annointing. And our governor Pat Quinn, complete and utter MORON, spend some more money we don't have brain child. Every time we see this clown, it's cut this and raise that TAX!...RAHM, truly the ANTI CHRIST, have an EXORCISM now and extinguish satan!!! As for BroBama, the king of the telepromptor, sure the clown has charisma, but he is incapable of independent thought, He gotsa go! If re-elcted, there is a 90% probability that we as Americans will all be speaking Chinese in the not so distant future!!!After all, we should speak the language of the country that will own us. These are views that I've obtained through countless conversations with working coppers, fireman, and a bevy of city workers. All elected officials in power for too long need to be sent a message, and LEAVE, it's time for a fresh REGIME!!!
This residency issue is a difficult one. I was looking at several suburbs and the cost of the homes. The property taxes, cost of water/garbage. Yes, it will cost substancially more to have a 708 or 630 area code.
___________________________________
Try 815, west of Joliet. Lots of retired coppers like myself went to that area. Hard working class, friendly people. They love and respect retired CPD & CFD. Lots of war veterans ( young and old).Very conservative. It's like a different world out here.
Mike Shields favors the residency requirement. Ask him.
My family lives in the suburbs and there streets were plowed. They pay a little more in taxes than me, but there schools are excellent. I will no longer pay almost $20,000.00 a year to send my kids to private schools. I will also not have to pay into property taxes for schools that I can not use. In my current area the public school is based on a lottery system to get in; what the f^&k is that? Screw this city and its pimp politicians.
Absolutely! The Daley school system even allows parochial school standards to slip because there is no alternative for middle class city residents.
Do you people really think there will be a mass exodus? Think Again. Yeah I wanted to leave early in my career but now I got kids in school (Private) half my house paid for. Yeah we are all gunna jump to the burbs for triple taxes just to prove a point. Think Again and don't get caught up in mass hysteria.
When residency ends the alderman wont have the power to control your job, promotions, assisgnments etc. That, in my opinion, is the real reason residency was enforced, to control the city employee. The political class gets you your job, arranges for your transfer , controls your promotion.You have to play ball with them. End residency and the old ways will be gone.
Public perception is bullshit! The stupid sheeple believe that the greedy police and fire departments are bankrupting the state. They are going to vote away our pension without a second thought....they feel safe living in "Copland" because we keep them safe on and off duty. ENOUGH!
Your right, however whats worse is your new lawmakers agree. Quinn is not going to be able to save your pensions. 10 years and less your fucked.
"To the poster critical of the individual who plans to move to Indiana. I hope you are a citizen and not the police because you sound like a HUGE PUSSY. "Oh no! They get SNOW in Indiana! I would rather stay in Chicago because then a snowplow will save me from cannibalism when we get a real accumulation of snow once every five years!" Idiot."
--2/14/2011 10:42:00 PM
Just relating a fact to keep in mind. They consistently get a lot more snow than we do, the drives will be longer and conditions worse than you're used to on this side of the lake. I lived in Berrien County, Mich. for a while and it is just a tougher winter with a. more snow and b. less gov't plowing, salting to deal with it. Gets less and less fun as you get older, frightening sometimes. Just something to put in the equation when you're deciding where to go.
I am kind of a student of the weather and familiar with the stuff that comes through on the radars all year; if you were looking for a place to put a city around here that would avoid some of the worst stuff, Chicago is in about the right spot. My friends in Wisconsin are shoveling snow when nothing's happening here, in summer my friends down by Kankakee are keeping one eye on the sky for funnels when nothing's happening here. It's like we are neatly situated between two storm tracks.
Of course, with the prevailing wind out of the west, the "lake effect" snows start on the other side of the lake from us, in Indiana/Michigan, and that is like a snow machine aimed at Buffalo, NY at the other end. They really get bombed there. Every once in a while we get some of that too, but it stays on the Indiana side of the state line maybe 90% of the time.
Chicago is also an "urban heat island" that has a tendency to break up smaller storms; you can see stuff coming in straight from the west, and then breaking up, dissipating when it "hits the wall." Interesting. I like to be outdoors, so it's fun to know nothing will "rain on the picnic."
That is why even the western suburbs often get worse weather than we do in City of Chicago. It's funny -- Berwyn is damp, you see moisture shining on everything many evenings, while, say, Norwood Park is dry.
It all goes to make a world.
God bless and stay safe.
Roe Conn on wls radio should get paid by the city. All he does is carry their water. He is such a little bitch.
All the local hosts on that station lean that way
As the non-existent watch secretary in a neighboring district, we have file folders for every month of the year in a drawer. You can give us a slip for December 31st on January 1st. We don't care. Also, brush up on the 'duty trade' order.
Mike Shields favors the residency requirement. Ask him.
2/15/2011 08:35:00 AM
--
WHICH Mike Shields are you referring to? The younger, who is running for office? Or the elder, who is on leave and working for the CPS?
I live in Edgebrook. All the cops and firemen around here have put shitty shoddy additions on to their houses, built by their friends on days off. They will learn a hard lesson when they put these shacks on the market. Just sayin.
Let it go, every mayoral candidate said it aint gonna happen.
I'm in Van Buren County about 100 yards from the shoreline of Lake Michigan. We get exactly the same amount of snow that you get, usually two hours later or sooner. We get a kick out of the way you all believe we're buried under three and four feet of snow here. "Lake effect snow" is along the great lakes. That would be Illinois snow as well as Indiana and Michigan.
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