City University of New York
Original tape date: January 31, 2012.
First aired: February 1, 2012.
Doug is joined by Eli Silverman and John A. Eterno, co-authors of “The Crime Numbers Game: Management by Manipulation.” The book brings together the work of two criminologists who present the first in-depth empirical analysis of the NYPD Compstat management system, exposing the truth about crime statistics manipulation in the NYPD.
The Crime Numbers Game: Management by Manipulation
These are the authors of the recent book dismantling CompStat.
First aired: February 1, 2012.
Doug is joined by Eli Silverman and John A. Eterno, co-authors of “The Crime Numbers Game: Management by Manipulation.” The book brings together the work of two criminologists who present the first in-depth empirical analysis of the NYPD Compstat management system, exposing the truth about crime statistics manipulation in the NYPD.
The Crime Numbers Game: Management by Manipulation
These are the authors of the recent book dismantling CompStat.
Labels: stats
posted by SCC at 12:01 AM
35 Comments:
Crime can only go so low before this COMSTAT thing blows up in everyones face.
I took classes with Silverman many years ago, when John Jay was by cops for cops and for youngsters like me just starting out.
Silverman was always well respected, and a damn good teacher.
I watched the whole show. Now I am interested in seeing what the media does with this. We have been saying many similar things here for quite sometime. Instead of focusing on the hard questions, the media has their focus on Abate, or someone who was a cop 10 years ago, or a few of the SOS cops.
I'll bet my 01 MAR pay check that nothing will be said by the media to challenge McCarthy or Emmanuel, or the upper exempts. AND, if the media does say something it will be so finely nuanced as to not amount to a hill of beans.
The media, politicians, big bosses, McCarthy and Emmanuel are all so full of shit.
THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY THAT CRIMES KEEPS GOING DOWN YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR.
Keep up the good work, SCC. I don't agree with everything you do, but if my def comp were as on target as often as you, I would be fucking retired already.
The comments at 11:50 on the video are priceless, If crime is down with less criminals how can you justify a sixfold increase in street stops? What is your reasonable suspicion?
I would love to talk to some nypd officers who police with this former commander john eterno. i bet his sissy ass didnt do a damn bit of real police work. he probably had about 8 arrests before he was made commander. stop and frisk is being used against minoritys and in minority neighborhoods way to frequently......ah yea thats because there the ones committing the majority of the crimes and that is where the maojority of crimes are taking place.
Long but very, very worth the time.
HEEEEELLLLLLLOOOOOO MEDIA??????
----chirp---
----chirp---
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This city must have a high population of crickets....because that's all you can hear!!!!!
Great video. I watched the whole thing. I'm sure a certain McNutjob is slamming some shots with a beer or two chasers right about now. Thanks for sharing SCC.
CompStat has been around since there first was a Chicago. Police bosses have been doctoring numbers since Abe Lincoln was walking around Springfield. CompStat is just a new fancy name for fudging the numbers.
stop and frisk is being used against minoritys and in minority neighborhoods way to frequently......ah yea thats because there the ones committing the majority of the crimes and that is where the maojority of crimes are taking place.
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Hey Einstein, how is that approach working out? You're an asshole. Here are a couple of guys trying to straighten things out, and you call them sissies? These two are on our side.
Being forced to do 'x' number of stop and frisks is illegal--and when someone goes to jail for violating someone's rights, it's not going to be a boss, it'll be you.
The media, politicians, big bosses, McCarthy and Emmanuel are all so full of shit.
Chapter 6 covers that.
We have just about all the problems NYPD has--and are about to suffer at the hands of fools for the foreseeable future.
The comments at 11:50 on the video are priceless, If crime is down with less criminals how can you justify a sixfold increase in street stops? What is your reasonable suspicion?
2/06/2012 12:57:00 AM
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My educated guess is that crime is down BECAUSE OF the increase in street stops. Duh.
Compare 1-31 JAN 12 WEATHER TO 1-31 JAN 11.
This is why I never took a single CPD test. I wont cook the books. I remember arguing with a Sgt over some Bullshit caps thing about 10 years ago. As the beat officer, the Sgt wanted me to fill out this caps thing stating how we dropped crime by 10%. I refused. I was dumped off the car but BFD. I refuse to lie. And this my friends is what an eductated person brings to any job now a days. 100% ass kissing and writing whatever it is to make them look good on paper. I only put bandaids on wounds.
The media attacked the authors because they are guilty and complicit of carrying water for the politicians.
---not a cop
I would love to talk to some nypd officers who police with this former commander john eterno. i bet his sissy ass didnt do a damn bit of real police work. he probably had about 8 arrests before he was made commander. stop and frisk is being used against minoritys and in minority neighborhoods way to frequently......ah yea thats because there the ones committing the majority of the crimes and that is where the maojority of crimes are taking place.
2/06/2012 01:03:00 AM
I don't know what kind of cop he was, but you obviously don't understand what he was saying. That's because you're stupid, but I have a lot of experience explaining things to stupid people and I will do the same for you now.
If crime is down 80% then how can street stops be up 600%? In order to stop someone you have to have an articulable reason to believe he is committing a crime. If the department is saying there is very little crime, then how can police officers justify a 600% increase in street stops? There are less police officers on the street. There are less criminals on the street (reportedly). But, people are six times as likely to get stopped and searched.
He explains why this happens. First, Compstat works and crime goes down. Then, bosses realize they won't get any credit unless crime goes down as least as much as it did last year. So, when crime goes up even a tick, the bosses push officers to massively increase stops (ie. Contact cards). This goes on year after year. And stops go way up year after year, until you have a 600% increase. Eventually, bosses realize there is no way they can bring down crime as much as last year, so they knock down reported felonies to misdemeanors.
In the end, the massive number of stops are illegal and the police officers and taxpayers suffer the consequences when lawsuits are filed. The bosses on the other hand, get superintendent jobs in other big cities, like Chicago.
What we need in Chicago is for Pan Zekman to return to this subject, like she did in '82 with her "Killing Crime" reports. She had all of the gold stars and the fifth floor in a tizzy for quite a while. The youngsters occupying these same spot now, trying to dazzle everyone with their BS, weren't around to learn those lessons.
I would love to talk to some nypd officers who police with this former commander john eterno. i bet his sissy ass didnt do a damn bit of real police work.
2/06/2012 01:03:00 AM
To the doltish nimrod who posted the above nonsense: I bet you haven't done much reading, listening and analyzing when you were in school. You missed the whole point of this video and took out one statement out of context to make your doltish comment. You're a fucking TOOL.
The numbers manipulation has begun in earnest. From a lil birdie I know.
So CompStat is the antithesis of CAPS? I'm so confused!
This has to piss off Commissioner McCarthy. He's was probably off in some precinct last night shooting out streetlights and searching for skels. Or maybe he was just celebrating the Super Bowl win. Could be a two-fer.
If you want to get an idea how screwed up the NYPD is look at the archives here.
http://nypdconfidential.com/
The NYPD under Ray Kelly is a dark organization. He's like some combination of Captain Queeg and J Edgar Hoover wearing panties and ranting about his enemies.
As for Commissioner McCarthy here's a link to his shenanigans before he descended like an undersized drunken locust on the CPD.
http://www.google.com/search?q=mccarthy+site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fnypdconfidential.com%2F&hl=en&num=10&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=off#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&source=hp&q=garry%20mccarthy%20site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fnypdconfidential.com%2F&pbx=1&oq=&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=782384432d316272&biw=1024&bih=556&pf=p&pdl=3000
ComStat falls right in with "protecting" the children. What a fucking joke. The real deal is when you leave your house to go to work, school, or just to the store. Gangsters and ruthless Thugs control the streets of Chicago. No amount of cameras will change that. I would be more worried about my kid getting mugged, shot in the face, or raped than by some mope going a few miles over the speed limit.
CompStat, like C.A.P.S., is no more than a marketing technique to win federal money and re-election for incumbent political hacks.
The most important numbers are the successfull prosecution of crimes and incarceration of criminals, but in a political cesspool like Chicago those numbers don't matter because you can't have half you voting population in jail and the other half angry because you put their play cousin in jail.
CompStat is all bullshyt to manipulate crime figures. Buy into it and I've got a bridge to sell you. Real cheap.
After reviewing this tape, ComStat reminds me of the old 1st District, where crime didn't occur in 001. Robberies became Thefts, pickpockets became Lost & Found. As then, as apparently is now in New York, too bad for the victims. They just become victims again...
This is why I never took a single CPD test. I wont cook the books. I remember arguing with a Sgt over some Bullshit caps thing about 10 years ago. As the beat officer, the Sgt wanted me to fill out this caps thing stating how we dropped crime by 10%. I refused. I was dumped off the car but BFD. I refuse to lie. And this my friends is what an eductated person brings to any job now a days. 100% ass kissing and writing whatever it is to make them look good on paper. I only put bandaids on wounds.
2/06/2012 06:53:00 AM
Uh oh...are you another mad person that blames people who went to college for everything? If you want to get more education too you can but if you don't then stop villifying people that did because you didn't need it. NEWSFLASH there are departments requiring 4 yr degrees. Could it be that we want to eat too and can't rely on working at the plant or the mill like 40 years ago?
The media attacked the authors because they are guilty and complicit of carrying water for the politicians.
---not a cop
2/06/2012 07:21:00 AM
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And you know this because you are part of the media? That WOULD explain a lot.
In New York, compstat, zero tolerance and all that stuff were used as covers for harassing black people out of the city.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/03/nyregion/03blacks.html?pagewanted=all
Everywhere else it's just BS to cover up how bad things are in certain neighborhoods.
Out-fucking-standing!
Compstat = Voodoo Crime Statistic Tabulation.
Compstat = Witch-Doctor Law Enforcement Management By Virtue Of Police Executives Dancing Naked Around A Bonfire While Laughing/Chanting & Cutting The Shit Out Of Themselves & Each Other With Obsidian Blades While Kissing A Skull On A Stick.
The powers that be are heavily invested in the ultimate fuckery of lying to the public about their safety.
They have thoroughly outsmarted themselves trying to outsmart everyone else.
They operate on the presumption that citizens are dumb and Policemen are even dumber...
"Stop being angry and fighting us, we're smarter than you and know what's best so stop it already."
Which is precisely why they HATE THIS BLOG!
We couldn't help but wonder from where the concept of Compstat originated... There had to be an original, a template if you will.
The father of crime stat fuckery & manipulation is the fed.
Which is why we LOL'd at the former fed known as Lemon-Head when he started revolving HIS dentures about McDrinky and the veracity of his crime stats.
Meanwhile, the war against Policemen and all their cares and concerns continues unabated...
Just watched this entire video.
HEY FOP maybe Chicago should have a survey done by some univestity/college asking the rank and file what is really happening within the Department. Bet if you asked these two they would provide you with the questions from the New York survey
Anyone who has ever worked in a District review or Area review unit knows that we have been cooking the books for years.
Crimes have always been downgraded to lower the major crimes reported to the FBI/Justice
It is sad that we all work by the numbers and not what is right. Anyone on the job has been a victim sometime in the past. And if they were not maybe it was a spouse, child or relative. How would they like to be downgraded in a crime
This sounds like it will be right chicago's alley. Rham will maje this the new chicago way. Crimr numbers will go down to zero..
This sounds like it will be right chicago's alley. Rham will maje this the new chicago way. Crimr numbers will go down to zero..
2/06/2012 10:05:00 PM
OMG, you are too funny! I'd be happy to host a fundraiser for you to attend a typing academy! Better yet, we'll just let you hang out with the 2 year-olds who are capable of texting/typing better than I can? Can I sit next to you? I go backwards more erasing shit I've typed than going forward! My family is ready to have an intervention because they think my bad typing is due to alcohol, not phones with keys the size of a midget's pinky toenail?
Look into our future.
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/html5/video?id=7694128&pid=7694111§ion=news/investigators
Ask any review officer and if he or she is truthful, they will tell you the shit is downgraded all the time...I worked in CAPS for a short period of time and when pulling reports to get ready for a beat meeting, could not find them, then would find out that the ucr was changed by the review office by direction of caps lt or commander to a lesser one (non pt1) offense. WTF!!Needless to say, I got out of there quick...This was not helping our citizens and they should have a right to know the crime they reported was downgraded. When I said the same at the beat meetings it was frowned upon....NOT A TEAM PLAYER....
Don't all of you realize that your only supposed to drink the Kool-Aid. The only questions of value are, Can I have more? and Is there any more red flavored?
All middle management(sgts) are jumping to toot their own CompStat horns in front of lt.s and commanders who spew this crap and they are happy that the sgts will be caught in lies and not them, so they leep their spots.
They have to have answers! and what they don't know they will make up and put a constituents’ name to the lie. Ridiculousness is not just a show hosted by a skate boarder it's whats happening right now in the patrol and det bureaus. Have some balls stop this nightmare because the only people loosing are the citizens.
Be the police, be the real police stop lying to save your spot.
Oh yeah (you special someone) keep your hands off that grant money, they (the G) does audits and those p/os are already making copies to prove that they don't have the access or authority to "re-allocate" (nudge nudge, wink, wink) those funds to your special someone projects for which the grant was not written and who does. The money is not yours it's ours-The citizens- and you will fall and fall hard.
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