Test Result Rumors (UPDATE)
Here they come:
- The Sergeant test scores were made available to the city on Friday and there is a HUGE problem. Turns out that the first 300 are overwhelmingly white and male. Over 90%.
No one wants this list to be public and it looks like the new list will be kept on the shelf for the foreseeable future. Look for at least three more big classes from the existing sergeant list before the current list is mailed out.
As someone else pointed out:
- I am shocked. Nothing like this has ever happened before.
Exactly.
UPDATE: You people bitching about "rumors" being spread on the blog and asking "Why do you publish stuff like this," don't you read the title? It said "RUMOR" right in the title. Some days there just isn't that much to write about and sometimes there's an event that affects something like 4,000 people and they deserve to hear when we think something is a rumor. Maybe you missed the response to the original rumor? It's right underneath:
UPDATE: You people bitching about "rumors" being spread on the blog and asking "Why do you publish stuff like this," don't you read the title? It said "RUMOR" right in the title. Some days there just isn't that much to write about and sometimes there's an event that affects something like 4,000 people and they deserve to hear when we think something is a rumor. Maybe you missed the response to the original rumor? It's right underneath:
- I am shocked. Nothing like this has ever happened before.
Labels: promotions
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
151 Comments:
some people just need to study more and apply themselves.
Why is this a huge problem?
The results are what they are supposed to be.
-the department is majority male
-the department is majority white
of course the majority in top 300 are male and white. duh.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know where they're at on the list after the class was made a few weeks ago?
You mean, they look a lot like the men who built this nation.
Oh shit, we better fix that.
There are those inequalities again. Racially and gender loaded and biased test questions. It has to be. Otherwise, one would have to believe that white European males just studied harder, and/or were better educated.
I'm more than a little suspicious of the 'overwhelming male' part of this thread. It's been known for some time that women traditionally do better on these promotional exams than do men' the latest Lt. promotional list is literally filled with them.
Hmmm...
they did that to us during examscam of 1985 Those dirty rotten mother fuckers
City should offer cash money upfront to male whites willing to give up there spot for a minority. I'll take $300,000 and park it in a index fund.
The city should give extra points to public school graduates, just like new incoming recruits. Let's dumb down this department as much as possible.
Really? I heard just the opposite. Not enough M/2 bosses kids remembered the answers they were given. Hope I'm wrong.
The question is, was the test legit?
Yes, if it was graded fairly and no one had the answers beforehand.
So if the two above stipulations were met, the question becomes....
Are whites superior test takers?
Man, that just sounds ugly but is it true?
I'll take this with a grain of salt until it's fueled by something more substantial than just rumor.
Not sure how many "Subject Matter Experts" trained how may test graders, but two months seems like an awfully short turn-around to grade over 4,000 tests.
But if...IF...true, then the city and Department would be wise to go with the results as scored/ranked, lest they find themselves paying-out bigtime a few years down the road. Any and all male whites that might be passed over would surely retain counsel and sue - I sure as Hell would. Look no further than the black fire candidates who were "discriminated" against. That litigation was hugely successful.
Hey, FOP! We know you're fastly approaching regime-change time, but perhaps one of the first orders of business of the new installs would be to inquire about this matter if revealed to be true. Form one of your infamous committees to investigate. For starters, maybe a FOIA request for the demographics of the test candidates. Maybe the good folks at Bernstein & Associates would provide the demographics of their students from this last prep course and we can see if any correlations exist there as well. Lotsa ways to dispel accusations of racial bias being present in this test.
Again, just a rumor, so I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it. Truth or fiction, this thread oughta prove controversial.
White? Male? Holy crap I'm both of those! I'm sooooooo getting promoted!
That test be racist. Someone call the ACLU and gets me some money.
It's true. There is a detective from Area Central that two of the bosses made a big stink about him being on the back end of this list. They went into detail about what a nightmare he is and why scoring must be reanalyzed.
It doesn't fit the script. No matter how easy you make these test they always turn out the same way. Just make every promotion merit and then the politicians can pick whoever they want.
Please promote a new class of Sgt. I'm tired of dealing with these f\2.
There shouldn't be any problem because Napolean and McFailure welcome promoting the best and brightest right?? Right??
you have got to be kidding me i studied my ass off for this test. they need to just release the results. It was made by an outside company anyway so io solutions are the ones on the hook for any lawsuits.
Well Daaaah!
With years, over a generation of anti-white racism in testing for this job and every other it has made the white male that has no clout study and work harder for every promotion.
I knew I was always up against clout, Affirmative Acton Quotas, Standardization, "We had to make up for past discrimination", "you had certain advantages because you are white" and all that other bullshit.
So I worked and studied harder and never got a "Merit Promotion", but I did retire with a silver bar on my collar.
If the city screws with this list, those who get passed over should sue to get the pay and benefits until they are promoted. Look at Judge Prentiss Marshall's decision in October 1988 which allowed the city to promote Sergeants. It's possible if someone wants to fight for it.
I call bullshit on this. I knew it was just a matter of time before someone concocted a cockamamie rumor (hell, I was going to!) that'd get everyone fired-up. "Don't believe the hype until you see it in type".
If true, time for a class action!
Just like anything else that is open to the public so is this. FOP needs to do its job and step up for a change.
I hope I'm one of those '90% of 300 white males' who are denied a timely promotion because I'll be retiring early after I sue the shit out of the city, chevrons or no chevrons.
Anywho, this is no doubt some nonsense made up by some goof that wants to get a rise out of a whole lot of people. And it'll probably work. Me? I've been to this dance too many times to know not to believe anything you hear thru the grapevine with this F'd up department. If there's any truth to it it will come out sooner or later, probably sooner, becuause this job and most of the people employed as CPD today can't keep their mouths shut or their every waking moment off Facebook, email and text message. If real, it WILL be leaked.
I think every white male on that list should sue for discrimination. If it was the other way around; would have already been filed. I would think that soon enough the white male will be a minority in Chicago.
Before any of you white test takers start patting your selfs on the back, just remember how screwed up this test really was. Regardless of race, and how hard you studied if you were given the answer or invited to certain study groups then race doesn't matter. It's a shocker how from what I heard not many people got over 85 on the first part but on the second part some how they get an aptitude for studing and score very well. For me race doesn't matter if you studied your ass of and make it, shame on those who didn't study as hard, what does matter is not having access to study groups or bosses who highlight certain orders for you to focus on (cough cough). Just like politics I have a hard time believing that only certain families are endowed with a political prowness that the other 99% of families don't have. Simiar to this job, certain families have, I guess, a biologically superior policemen gene that enable their sons and sons sons to continue to lead this deparment.
The.bosses singled out one detective as being the reason for re scoring.
Race and gender -- is being judged now.
They already lowered the part 1 passing to 55 percent so the minorities were able to take part 2. Then the city made 80-90 percent of the part 2 test multiple guess and easy essay where you didn't have to study any general orders to answer the questions. It was rather amusing/disheartening after the test listening to those that missed 40 percent of the answers on part 1 saying how easy part 2 was. And it was to them because the test was bullshit. But that is what the city wants, an easy test to pander to the stupid. I guarantee you part 1 results were mostly white at the top. I don't believe this rumor for part 2. The truth will be shown if any more classes are made off a test taken 8 years ago. The problem here is the police department won't give us an update on test results/grading.
The large majority of this department is male white so I believe those numbers would be somewhat accurate. If the department truely wants a list that represents the racial makeup of the department they should hold the list up and do this. Break up the test list into racial groups, whites, blacks, Hispanics, and everyone else. Then figure out the exact racial makeup of the department, lets say 75% white, 25% black, 20% Hispanic, and 5% other. When they make a class pull the top scorers from each group to make a class, then you will have a balanced class that represents the make up of the department and get rid of merit promotions once and for all. Just a thought....
To the poster from yesterday-
Why vote republican?
You must be happy with the current state of affairs- corruption, high taxes, cronyism, people fleeing the state in droves, a state on the fast path to bankruptcy and unwilling to do anything about it.
This should be one of the most clearcut elections in history if educated people voted on the issues.
Hell, I'd vote for BigBird over Quinn. How can it possibly get worse? We are definitely in worse shape since Quinn took over. He hasnt turned around anything.
Personally, I don't like Rauner at all but when have we have ever had a perfect candidate? He is without a doubt the lesser of two evils.
The city could have avoided all this bullshit if they graded it on site.
If they kept it multiple guess.
Once you start putting grammar and reading comprehension in the test you are asking for problem.
Officers can barely scratch out a 4 sentence case report.
I rish I was Caucasian.
MG
Only time will tell.....
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The city should give extra points to public school graduates, just like new incoming recruits. Let's dumb down this department as much as possible.
3/31/2014 12:48:00 AM
Just like they did to CPS, they have a higher graduation percentage but they can't even spell their own name. Great job!
Please promote a new class of Sgt. I'm tired of dealing with these f\2.
3/31/2014 02:47:00 AM
You're going to deal with them even more if you make sergeant you idiot.
Well look at fop election no woman at the top of any slate mostly white males no wonder tommy lost!
Judge not by the color of one's skin ....
and all that
The usual screamers and complainers will yell that the test is racist. If black people cannot pass it in equal or greater numbers, it must be racist.
But the NBA is not racist. Neither is the CTA or Postal Service. Those are fair and square.
I thought the proctors were racists in their numbers. Someone should investigate and sue.
Here's a little history:
• 1993 Sgt’s test (administered in first 3 months of 1994). 3 parts, the third being oral. There was no meritorious whatsoever. 4,700 took parts I (31.8% were black, 10.8% were Hispanic, and 56.4% were white) and II, of which 1,900 went on to part III. But after all three parts were graded, about 88% of those designated to be promoted to sergeant were white and 12% were minority.
Ok so let me get this straight.Not only did they LOWER the passing score for the first part forit to be "fair" but now since they aren't getting the results they wanted not only are they NOT going to promote the MOST QUALFIED for this test but they're going to promote some of the LEAST QUALIFIED from the LAST TEST!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!
Just like 1988 when they " standardized" the test after the " raw" score. And just like 1995 when A. Anderson made up the test and the results were not what the politicians wanted.
A little more CPD history:
In 1989, the CPD administered a test to determine which patrol officers it would promote to the rank of detective. Majeske v. City of Chicago, 218 F.3d 816, 818 (7th Cir. 2000). The test consisted of two components--the first was a written job knowledge multiple-choice test and the second was an oral examination. After reviewing the results of the written test, though, the CPD concluded that promoting in rank order based on the results would adversely impact African-American and Hispanic applicants.
Nothing new here.
Hey SCC...Guess who just had his "MERIT" interview>>>>>>>drumroll please...None other than the SUPT's driver "Cleve"....
Just for shits and giggles...the SUPT had at least three others sit in on the interview.....u know so it's legit.....
So final Sgt promotion class to have another outstanding driver promoted to Sgt of police....
U know, he really knows how to use them turn signals, fast at dry cleaners, parks extremely well,
all the needed qualifications of a CPD leader.
Who is asking for the merit list? start with supt's drivers.
this is complete bullshit!
Just another stupid rumor to stir the pot! If the majority of the candidates were white males, then this isn't breaking news. Wake me up when you find flight 370.
C'mon SCC don't post rumors to stir the pot. The moral is bad enough. Post facts only. I'm sure there are lots of women in the top as well. They are known to be better test takers. I think that would be more of a problem for this dept. Lol
This is not true. Just someone stirring the pot and laughing.
But if...IF...true, then the city and Department would be wise to go with the results as scored/ranked, lest they find themselves paying-out bigtime a few years down the road.
Umm......look what the city has done with their pension payments. How many "pension holidays" have there been in the last 20 years? Keep kicking the can down the road and eventually you'll run out of road.
I am mortified.
foia
The last three examinations were proctored by Ernst and Young . The second part of the exams were shipped directly to the personnel department where the tests were
Adjusted . Nothing has been done by anyone on Washington Street to address this issue . White males are not a protected class and the past regimes have not and will not get involved . The city promotes who they want . The sign should say "GIVEN NOT EARNED!!!"
Thats why they have 30% merit.
I don't believe it. We have many non white and non male supe rvisors who are competent. This is 2014. This is an old wives tale.
I blame the Catholic high schools for doing a better job than the Chicago Public Schools.
If the city screws with this list, those who get passed over should sue to get the pay and benefits until they are promoted. Look at Judge Prentiss Marshall's decision in October 1988 which allowed the city to promote Sergeants. It's possible if someone wants to fight for it.
I think you are alittle confused or dont know the case. Judge Marshalls decision screwed over the whites on the list and set a quota for minorities. His decision didnt help the 90% that scored high on the lists. The whites lost that case.
All about the "Bell Curve"
old retired guy
But if...IF...true, then the city and Department would be wise to go with the results as scored/ranked, lest they find themselves paying-out bigtime a few years down the road. Any and all male whites that might be passed over would surely retain counsel and sue - I sure as Hell would. Look no further than the black fire candidates who were "discriminated" against. That litigation was hugely successful.
Doesn't work that way. Only the minorities have been successful in any lawsuits. Whites have never won a case forcng the city to promote in test result order. Whether it resulted in banding,quota's, affirmative action,whites havent been winners.
The question is, was the test legit?
Yes, if it was graded fairly and no one had the answers beforehand.
So if the two above stipulations were met, the question becomes....
Are whites superior test takers?
Man, that just sounds ugly but is it true?
Not sure if they are superior test takers, but all prior sgts and detective tests would indicate that.
Anonymous said...
The question is, was the test legit?
Yes, if it was graded fairly and no one had the answers beforehand.
So if the two above stipulations were met, the question becomes....
Are whites superior test takers?
Man, that just sounds ugly but is it true?
3/31/2014 12:54:00 AM
You're delusional if you think that none of the top 300 had the answers beforehand.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'm more than a little suspicious of the 'overwhelming male' part of this thread. It's been known for some time that women traditionally do better on these promotional exams than do men' the latest Lt. promotional list is literally filled with them.
Hmmm...
3/31/2014 12:35:00 AM
But the percentage of females on the job has been dropping steadily.
Why not just give a "Part 1" type of exam where the passing score is curved so damn low like it is now, THEN just give everyone a fuckin' lottery number like they do for the entrance exam?
Fuckin' joke
In regards to the lieutenants list just made:
It looks like ANOTHER candidate who was in the special "Capt. Dillon Study Group" just made lieutenant.
(It's the guy from 017)
Getting promoted sure is easy when you have the answers to the test.
FUCK this city.
Take a look around in your district at the supervisors. Do they "lead" or do nothing? Example, that guy(s) that stay down on jobs for 2-3 hours while the workers get all the jobs. Does your supervisor make decisions in the field?
My point is test scores don't always equal a good supervisor. Yes he can pass a test but if he is non-existent and does nothing, what good is he.
Not a cop, but does everyone have access to the same study materials, if so I could give a fuck. Study for the damn exams, if they are the same, study materials the same, sounds fair to me.
make it a lottery!
False, io has not completed grading yet. Io says at least another month till they are done so this is a false rumor
I will turn 58 this year , 70 out on old list . I hope this is true , I will retire as a seargent in 4 years .
too bad hair gels , wait your turn . Someone will get all the vri that I work now . haha
just to be fair, why don't we just hand all control of all governmental functions to non-white, non-males.
Let's see what happens then.
Of course all the white male comments are now being used as battle cry for anti-racism arguments. The test wasn't biased, that's not the likely story. The likely story is that there were a select few that got the test beforehand. Regardless if the test was administered via a 3rd party, the test was still made available to the clouted higher ups. Every aspect of this department is tainted by corruption and nepotism, what would make you think this is the ONE thing that is LEGIT... oh i know why, because it benefits the typical ignorant bigoted individual. Typical.
swat qustion is gone as well as reports!will regrade test to get quotas in and connected!ANOTHER SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR FOR RESULTS!THE CHICAGO WAY1welcome aboard future dogs!now u know why old timers are disgruntled!
You mean, they look a lot like the men who built this nation.
Oh shit, we better fix that.
3/31/2014 12:29:00 AM
Yeah...so it can look a lot like the people who are tearing it down.
There will always be politics and favoritism involved in CPD promotion exams. Too many thieves in the mix and all feel they and their kids have earned the right to take the advantage. I've been on the job for over 22 years and taken a few promotional exams. No matter how much you study, its always beyond your control. Good luck to all the minority brothers and sisters who took this test. I will exit stage left into retirement cause its not worth the fight to make Sergeant. Blessings to those who continue to fight the struggle to get promoted despite the unforeseen/behind the door politics.
Why is that a HUGE problem? I didn't take the test and I am not bitching. My bad. Nobody to blame but myself. Others studied. Why the fuck can't the test results just be the results? You study, you take the test and get your results. Not sure what it would matter if it were a med school exam to get your MD or an FAA exam to be a pilot and blacks scored low. Would you let them fly the plane to balance out the quota?
When I studied at UIC everyone put their school ID on the test and other instructors or senior students graded the exams and your score got entered into the computer. Simply as that. I don't see why this job can't figure it out. Why can't you just pass people who are qualified? I am sure there is not a black, Hispanic or Asian reading this post who would insist on an unqualified pilot who was black fly his plane or an Asian who would want an unqualified Asian doctor cutting them open but wanted him/her because he was Asian. Not sure how that concept stops with the CPD. Let's promote someone because they are black or Hispanic just because? Makes no sense. I have no problem working for a competent black Sgt. I'd rather work for a black Sgt who is qualified than a white one who was clueless. God stop with the race shit already. Study for the exam and pass it and get promoted. I didn't study, didn't take the test and will not get promoted. Boo, fucking hoo for me and the rest of you assholes that scored poorly.
MTS 009
SCC,
Seriously why even post this BS. Ridiculous.
Mayor Rahm has dusted off his Ouija Board and in a special seance will communicate with old dead Federal Judge Prentice Marshall to determine what the true order of promotion will be.
This is complete B.S. The results are in, their is no issue, at this point, with the results. The letters will be out in a few days.
Post the list , if you study hard you can pass
Looks like whites want to earn promotion , others want it handed to them . Merit my ass , most cannot report for work on time , look at uniform , mall security guards put many cpd officers to shame .
lets just go straight merit and drop the illusion that there is legitimacy.
A majority? Yes, true.
90%? Bullshit
Not sure how many "Subject Matter Experts" trained how may test graders, but two months seems like an awfully short turn-around to grade over 4,000 tests.
-----
It's closer to three months and for those who took the test know one test can be graded in under 10 minutes easily. There were 66 scantron answers. Six bullet points lists for scenario/short answer that are easy to grade and three bullet lists for report correction.
One grader can easily knock out 50 tests in a day. 6 tests per hour for 8 hours. Lets go lowball and say there are 5 graders. That's 250 tests graded per day. 1,250 tests per week. All the tests are easily graded in four weeks.
Big changes Friday. Rumor has it that the test will be torn down Friday and a spelling bee will be conducted in its place. Only one sgt will be made from this test, the winner of the spelling bee. So watch out because it will probably be a m or f 6 that wins. Huge lawsuit to follow.
BS Rumor! That test takes about a year to grade.
God forbid you promote people who actually scored well... Why would you do that?
I hope the results are out! I don't know how many more stupid question's I can hear from the P.O. on the 1163 tact team(N.B.). If I have to hear another one of his ridiculous questions it may be followed by a roundhouse!
Signed (A.Z.)& 11dis.desk crew
Not true.
The problem is race norming test scores. The city has been doing this for years. Just look at those promoted on the list. They continue to do this despite the US Supreme Court declaring it unlawful. Google it for a clear understanding.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/02/09/10362607-white-firefighters-awarded-25-million-in-discrimination-case
Sometimes white folks are discriminated against.
F.O.I.A. request
I agree not to believe the hype. However, you will never see this in official type.
It's true. There is a detective from Area Central that two of the bosses made a big stink about him being on the back end of this list. They went into detail about what a nightmare he is and why scoring must be reanalyzed.
3/31/2014 02:03:00 AM
----------------------------------------------------------------
Why would they get mad when their dumbasses could submit merit packages for this clown. It's not like they have to actually do something.
Political correctness sure has made a mess of the job.. And it's getting worse every day. Spoiled entitled whiners. You can't beat someone one a test... So cry.
im calling my daddy and my uncle!I AM IN!!
If true, that total would include Hispanics also. For the purposes of this exam, Hispanics were classified as white based on the test registration.
At least you fall in order of a score.
The recent police entrance exam was a pure lottery. I know of 4 scores
94% loterry # over 12000
91% lottery # over 11000
83% lottery # under 500
79% lottery # under 200
So dont be mad. Could be a lotteryand we would have the dumbest in charge. Then again maybe that is how its done.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
you have got to be kidding me i studied my ass off for this test. they need to just release the results. It was made by an outside company anyway so io solutions are the ones on the hook for any lawsuits.
3/31/2014 03:30:00 AM
FOIA it.
It is NOT Classified or even Restricted Information. The City MUST release it. Or else get sued by every White Male that took the test that gets passed over.
So the special people with the answers still can't pass the test??? Wow that is pathetic and sad.
I heard the majority of persons on the list were from the soon to be disbanded Mass Transit.
Like Judge Prentiss Marshall said years ago: "I don't care if you scrap the written test and hold a dance contest. Just make sure the numbers come out right."
They should make a few more classes off current list they haven't even promoted 300 yet. I think you would get quality Sgt's who landed in the 250-500 range. Obviously not book worms but also prob knowledgeable enough. Damn I'm 501.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know where they're at on the list after the class was made a few weeks ago?
3/31/2014 12:19:00 AM
Around 325
Anonymous said...
swat qustion is gone as well as reports!will regrade test to get quotas in and connected!ANOTHER SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR FOR RESULTS!THE CHICAGO WAY1welcome aboard future dogs!now u know why old timers are disgruntled!
3/31/2014 11:54:00 AM
You again!?!?
The preceding has been contributed (several times) by the idiot who A) failed to recognize that the dude locked inside a foreclosed property discharging a weapon was a SWAT incident and B) didn't get to the last part of the test because he ran out of time.
Give it a rest already. You fucked up, and fucked up big, as that question will surely hold a lot of weight.
Wasn't I/O Solution's claim to fame is their "test's" were found to be non-discriminatory by a court?
It's ridiculous that this dept holds us back when a test is given every 8-10 yrs, delayed results , merit, etc. there isn't enough years to be promoted, unless you score well in 1 to 2 chances only , or have that phone call.
If you miss a test by a few months you wait 8-10 years for another one. And when you finally get a chance to take that test they hold the results and drag your chances out even longer. Where are the lawsuits, unions?
wasn t it 10-15 years ago that the city hired 4 black prof.to make up a the new sgt, s test so minorities could have a better chance of getting promoted only to have the same results ,,,not many did well. The Mayor even said maybe they should study harder only to have the Revs cry how the test was unfair.Really.
And the reason this dept is mostly white males is because for over 80 years being the police was a shit job and only the immigrant irish and Italians took the job.After JAne byrne brought the salaries up to a decent level did this job suddenly become attractive to others.I m sorry but I would want the most qualified person on my call, not one who was hired for the color of the month.That already has been happening for years with the Post office and the CTA.ANd you can see how good that's been going.
I hope the results are out! I don't know how many more stupid question's I can hear from the P.O. on the 1163 tact team(N.B.). If I have to hear another one of his ridiculous questions it may be followed by a roundhouse!
Signed (A.Z.)& 11dis.desk crew
totally agree (nb) total goofball. Thank god I can retire in 2 years and leave this shitty dept and city. If that idiot makes sgt I feel bad for whoever he has to supervise. You will have to listen him and how it's all about me me me me. If that goof approaches me in the hallway of 011 one more time and ask me about the Sgt test I think I'm gonna half to knock him out.
Not a cop, but does everyone have access to the same study materials, if so I could give a fuck. Study for the damn exams, if they are the same, study materials the same, sounds fair to me.
3/31/2014 11:01:00 AM
Sgt once told me "fair" is a four letter word that starts with F.
If I get passed over. I will sue.
90% of intelligence is genetics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact
In United States employment law, the doctrine of disparate impact holds that employment practices may be considered discriminatory and illegal if they have a disproportionate "adverse impact" on members of a minority group. Under the doctrine, a violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act may be proven by showing that an employment practice or policy has a disproportionately adverse effect on members of the protected class as compared with non-members of the protected class.[1]
The doctrine prohibits employers "from using a facially neutral employment practice that has an unjustified adverse impact on members of a protected class. A facially neutral employment practice is one that does not appear to be discriminatory on its face; rather it is one that is discriminatory in its application or effect."[2] Where a disparate impact is shown, the plaintiff can prevail without the necessity of showing intentional discrimination unless the defendant employer demonstrates that the practice or policy in question has a demonstrable relationship to the requirements of the job in question.[3] This is the so-called "business necessity" defense.[1]
Disparate impact contrasts with disparate treatment. A disparate impact is unintentional, whereas a disparate treatment is an intentional decision to treat people differently based on their race or other protected characteristics.
If you look at the people getting promoted from inside jobs, you can see a pattern. Was the PO Woods on the Sgt list the same one from personnel? They have to reward their people. No need to guess the sponsor...
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not a cop, but does everyone have access to the same study materials, if so I could give a fuck. Study for the damn exams, if they are the same, study materials the same, sounds fair to me.
3/31/2014 11:01:00 AM
That battle has been fought in the Federal Courtroom of Judge Prentice Marshall. City tried so hard to make a fair test. The usual crowd still couldn't score high enough. It was called "cultural bias." That begat promotions of those who thought they were smart but still couldn't spell. Cram fair we were told.
Well that might be correct, because every scenario I got from the good ole boys told me about was on the test. To bad they told me the night before, had to cram. Guess I might be a part of the 10%.
"Not a cop, but does everyone have access to the same study materials, if so I could give a fuck. Study for the damn exams, if they are the same, study materials the same, sounds fair to me.
3/31/2014 11:01:00 AM"
But not everybody has access to the invitation only study groups, therein lies the problem.
"You mean, they look a lot like the men who built this nation.
Oh shit, we better fix that.
3/31/2014 12:29:00 AM'"
They look like Chinese Railway workers? Fascinating
If the city would remove two things from every test there would never be an issue... Race and gender. Just your social security number is used and then they couldn't say anything about discrimination because there is no indicator on the testing material as to who / what you are.
If that goof approaches me in the hallway of 011 one more time and ask me about the Sgt test I think I'm gonna half to knock him out.
3/31/2014 08:29:00 PM
Me Mongo. Me not write good, so me use my fist.
In the words of Gary Coleman: WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT WILLIS!!!!
My suggestion is to get back out the " bozo drum." They could then
Take everyone's star and put it in there and spin it . Tiny dancer could be Mr. Ned and mcGruff could be bozo! There are enough other exempt ranks to fill in the other spots . Spin the wheel and away we go. At the end we can have the " Grand March !"😊😊😊
5:47 PM
Re: The late Seventh Circuit Judge Prentice Marshall.
Wrong! Substitute "arm wrestling" for a dance contest and your statement is substantively correct.
His outrageously insulting comment demonstrates that some members of the federal judiciary and other liberal assholes regard criteria for "police professionalism" as identical to that of a common laborer. Mensa members and "the best and the brightest" need not apply.
Marshall's ilk wants our police to be "diverse", able-bodied and preferably stupid.
Anonymous said..."You mean, they look a lot like the men who built this nation.
Oh shit, we better fix that.
3/31/2014 12:29:00 AM'"
They look like Chinese Railway workers? Fascinating
4/01/2014 01:23:00 AM
Sorry but some Chinese immigrants laying railroad tracks in the 1800's did not build this nation. It was a small but significant contribution. Fascinating.
I know it sucks, who said life is fair? Do your job, make your superiors look good, stay out of trouble and avoid gossip. Your Father in heaven who knows what you do in secret will reward you.
Almost 60 years of affirmative action and they still can't climb the imaginary obstacles.
Big changes Friday. Rumor has it that the test will be torn down Friday and a spelling bee will be conducted in its place. Only one sgt will be made from this test, the winner of the spelling bee. So watch out because it will probably be a m or f 6 that wins. Huge lawsuit to follow.
3/31/2014 02:10:00 PM
April Fool, right?
April Fool!
In United States employment law, the doctrine of disparate impact holds that employment practices may be considered discriminatory and illegal if they have a disproportionate "adverse impact" on members of a minority group. Under the doctrine, a violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act may be proven by showing that an employment practice or policy has a disproportionately adverse effect on members of the protected class as compared with non-members of the protected class.[1]
The doctrine prohibits employers "from using a facially neutral employment practice that has an unjustified adverse impact on members of a protected class. A facially neutral employment practice is one that does not appear to be discriminatory on its face; rather it is one that is discriminatory in its application or effect."[2] Where a disparate impact is shown, the plaintiff can prevail without the necessity of showing intentional discrimination unless the defendant employer demonstrates that the practice or policy in question has a demonstrable relationship to the requirements of the job in question.[3] This is the so-called "business necessity" defense.[1]
Disparate impact contrasts with disparate treatment. A disparate impact is unintentional, whereas a disparate treatment is an intentional decision to treat people differently based on their race or other protected characteristics.
Great point. You said a mouthful
In the Prentiss Marshall case, the actual burden of proof shifted from the plaintiffs to the city just because of the number of minorities not in the original test result group. Where else do you sue for discrimination and then because of the numbers, the person or city you sue has to prove they did not.
The Obama administration is now going to require race based hiring practices for medical doctors. If the doctors don't score high enough, they can still be appointed by "merit."
You will be assigned one of these "merit" doctors under Obamacare. How does that make you feel?
If they appoint a bridge builder who flunked his math exams but was of the proper color and promoted to meet a quota, would you want to drive on the bridge that he builds?
It's not the public schools/teachers fault you cant read and add. Catholic school teachers are not better teachers, they just cost you more. It's the parents participation by being home and involved that determines success by setting rules regarding homework, cerfews, house chores, parent teacher involvement and even who they hang around. So Fuck all you elitist catholic school pricks who work 3 jobs to pay for nothing accept a lot of missed family time.
Anonymous said...
If you look at the people getting promoted from inside jobs, you can see a pattern. Was the PO Woods on the Sgt list the same one from personnel? They have to reward their people. No need to guess the sponsor...
3/31/2014 11:36:00 PM
same one as Wysinger's driver?
They should make a few more classes off current list they haven't even promoted 300 yet. I think you would get quality Sgt's who landed in the 250-500 range. Obviously not book worms but also prob knowledgeable enough. Damn I'm 501.
3/31/2014 06:00:00 PM
**************
this was the last class. when sgts were last made about a month or two ago the supt said that they were going to make two more classes of 30 sgts then the list would come down. Instead of making two classes they made one big class of 60. I spoke to Mary H. in personnel who is one of the nicest people up there and she said that the old list is done. If you have any questions about the number made or the list etc I recommend calling her, she is one of the few who can actually give you a straight answer up there. So to finally put the questions to bed, the old list is finished, this class of 60 was the final cut.
They had to dumb it down for the majority, not the minority.
Holy shit! That means I'm really white!
you will see!QUESTION GONE......TOO VAGUE!
Do yourselves a favor and read the Supreme Court's ruling on the New Haven Connecticut Fire Department's captain test. This was a test administered by IO Solutions, by the way. City Hall can try and fight the results, but they would be exceedingly stupid to do so.....and we know they are smart, right??
at compstat it was stated there will be two more classes off the last list
We hold these truths that are self evident" except in Chicago " that all men are created equal " unless u are a fourth generation police officer or related to a minister , congressman or protected gender , race and sexual preference " that they are endowed by their creator " or Chinaman " with version inalienable or " unalienable " rights such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness !
City if Chicago convicted in federal court of fixing jobs !
😣😣😣😣😣😣😣
A guy once said that if the test was about black history, the white guys would do better.
A few tests back, they decided to just give a test, no race norming no affirmative action and in those days no merit. The top 500 came out overwhelming white. Daley went nuts.
Some very learned and influential black leaders have said that affirmative action has been terrible for black people. People stop studying and working to get better because they know they will get a leg up. But the liberal guilt ridden white leaders keep trying.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact
In United States employment law, the doctrine of disparate impact holds that employment practices may be considered discriminatory and illegal if they have a disproportionate "adverse impact" on members of a minority group. Under the doctrine, a violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act may be proven by showing that an employment practice or policy has a disproportionately adverse effect on members of the protected class as compared with non-members of the protected class.[1]
The doctrine prohibits employers "from using a facially neutral employment practice that has an unjustified adverse impact on members of a protected class. A facially neutral employment practice is one that does not appear to be discriminatory on its face; rather it is one that is discriminatory in its application or effect."[2] Where a disparate impact is shown, the plaintiff can prevail without the necessity of showing intentional discrimination unless the defendant employer demonstrates that the practice or policy in question has a demonstrable relationship to the requirements of the job in question.[3] This is the so-called "business necessity" defense.[1]
Disparate impact contrasts with disparate treatment. A disparate impact is unintentional, whereas a disparate treatment is an intentional decision to treat people differently based on their race or other protected characteristics.
3/31/2014 09:32:00 PM
100% correct
Congress made the law so intent is not required (as opposed to a constitutional equal protection claim where one must intend to discriminate). If the inferior race is not hired/promoted at 80% of the superior race (excuse the terms), then their exists a prima facie case of discrimination per Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1965. The burden then shifts to the employer to prove the test predicts performance.
The Washington D.C. Police Dept. has met this burden. CPD could easily meet this burden. The Chicago Fire Dept. could NOT meet this burden when the firemen from the 1995 test sued and won. (the fireman test did not test stuff that a fireman needed to know to do his job).
The Chgo. P.D., COULD promote straight down the list (if they meet the above burden, which they would). The CPD does NOT WANT to do that for political reasons.
That being said, The Civil Rights Act of 1965 is not blatently backwards. Admittedly it's sloppy (it's the gov't after all) but actually it's intent is good ... it protects groups from scam tests ... meaning .... you don't want to use some B.S. test of theoretical physics when hiring for a janitor spot.
That battle has been fought in the Federal Courtroom of Judge Prentice Marshall. City tried so hard to make a fair test. The usual crowd still couldn't score high enough. It was called "cultural bias." That begat promotions of those who thought they were smart but still couldn't spell. Cram fair we were told.
---
You are correct.
In 1976, Judge Prentice Marshall of the United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois found that the 1971 Sergeant Exam discriminated against African-Americans, Hispanics, and women in violation of Title VII. See United States v. Chicago, 411 F. Supp. 218 (N.D. Ill. 1976). Judge Marshall consequently entered a judgment directing the City to:
• adopt and seek to achieve a goal of promoting blacks, Spanish-surnamed persons and females to the rank of sergeant so as to have and maintain a sergeant mix reasonably representative of the patrol force . . . . To ensure as quickly as practicable the attainment of this goal, 40% of the promotions to the rank of sergeant shall consist of black and Spanish-surnamed persons, subject to the availability of qualified applicants, until further order of this Court.
• Chicago, 411 F. Supp. at 250-51. In 1981, the Seventh Circuit determined that a sufficient showing was made to justify lowering the court-imposed minority quota to 25%. See United States v. City of Chicago, 663 F.2d 1354 (7th Cir. 1981). Finally, in 1990, the Seventh Circuit vacated Judge Marshall's equitable decree altogether. United States v. Chicago, 897 F.2d 243, 244 (7th Cir. 1990)
******this was the last class. when sgts were last made about a month or two ago the supt said that they were going to make two more classes of 30 sgts then the list would come down. Instead of making two classes they made one big class of 60. I spoke to Mary H. in personnel who is one of the nicest people up there and she said that the old list is done. If you have any questions about the number made or the list etc I recommend calling her, she is one of the few who can actually give you a straight answer up there. So to finally put the questions to bed, the old list is finished, this class of 60 was the final cut.4/01/2014 11:32:00 AM
Then why are they doing merit interviews right now? Why were people that passed on it told there will be another class in May and they can take it then? Apparently this Mary knows more than the Chief of Patrol. Who are you that you know so much?
This B.S kills me, someone shouts a rumor, without a morsel of facts to back it up, and the idiots rant like it's gospel. Grow the fuck up.
>>> Anonymous said...
Almost 60 years of affirmative action and they still can't climb the imaginary obstacles.
4/01/2014 09:02:00 AM<<<
Are you kidding me...
We have an Affirmative Action PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES.
He never could have got there without it.
Did the media ever question his qualifications, his school grades, his law degree, his legislative providence.
Why no of course...
That would have been RACIST.
We have the greatest country in the world! Let's change it.
I will sue. Everyone else does, why not?
John Northen said...
5:47 PM
Re: The late Seventh Circuit Judge Prentice Marshall.
Wrong! Substitute "arm wrestling" for a dance contest and your statement is substantively correct.
His outrageously insulting comment demonstrates that some members of the federal judiciary and other liberal assholes regard criteria for "police professionalism" as identical to that of a common laborer. Mensa members and "the best and the brightest" need not apply.
Marshall's ilk wants our police to be "diverse", able-bodied and preferably stupid.
........
Aren't you retired? Go back to crying in the corner about your "examscam" crap...
Kudos to Northside for striking a raw nerve with the anonymous clout baby rat at 7:56 PM. The truth hurts, bosshole.
wow male white officers getting preferential treatment on the police department...promotions,better assignments how did that happen in America?oh yeah it has always been that way in America so please stop the "woe is me,my country is being taken over and i cant catch a break"bull.you guys got it good and always will and always have since this country was formed.so stop crying!now let the hate begin
Can some m/2 on here have his genius m/2 child hack into I.O. Solutions and get us our results please.
To The people who complain about all the stupid leadership, supervisors and FOP and to those who believe that just because there are more male whites on the job that the outcome of the test will reflect in their favor. What a joke. I hear on a daily basis how OUR leaders are garbage well ...ask yourself who has been in charge of this department? Since the beginning and now? It is ran by the majority of dumb white males! Swallow that!
The only way to measure the fairness is to obtain the raw scores from IO Solutions prior to Rahm and City Council getting their hands on them. IO Solutions has been mandated not to release their list. It will take a subpoena. Good luck to all who sue the pants off of Rahm and this corrupt city.
Im a white male with twenty years on this job. I have taken three sergeant exams. The last exam took nine months to get the results and was the worst score I received. Go figure? It's not about race it's about who you know and not what you know. I have decided that I will never take another test for this phony department again. Besides there is nothing wrong retiring a blue shirt. There are a lot of good officers on this job that really know this job and worked the streets not being taken inside write after their FTO training spending most of their career inside. These are the people getting promoted. These are the supervisors that you call to a job and have no clue how to handle it. I am disgusted at how far this department has fallen.
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