Officer Cleared
- Park Forest Police Officer Craig Taylor has been found not guilty on wrongful death charges in connection with the death of 95-year-old John Wrana at an assisted living facility in July 2013.
The case was brought to trial in January as prosecutors and family members argued that Taylor used excessive force when he fired a beanbag gun at close range, sending five rounds at the World War II veteran.
Police were called to the assisted living facility after prosecutors say Wrana had become violent with staff. Park Forest police said Wrana refused repeated requests to drop a knife, and Officer Mitchell Green testified that Wrana threatened the officers with the weapon.
We believe we saw his Chief with him at numerous points during the trial.
Labels: suburban
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
68 Comments:
Poor man. If he had hypoxia, he might not have understood commands to drop the knife.
Not Monday morning quarterbacking but that tragedy should never, ever, have happened.
This was not a millisecond, shoot, don't shoot scenario, where, unless you were there, you can't really try to second guess or know what happened.
It just plain and simpleshould not have unfolded the way it did.
The nursing home over-reacted. The cops over-reacted. The tactical plan stunk. The copper should never have been brought to trial as the fall guy. And he should never have pulled the trigger either. I don't care whether it was a diret order or not.
I've disobeyed direct orders when they were wrong and later, when cooler heads prevailed, nothing ever came of them. No CR, no spar, no nothing.
That whole fucking situation short circuited.
No winners.
Only loosers.
Five Beanbags? Sounds like the geezer was tougher than they thought.
The jury has spoken...
A man lost his life.
A man had his good name sullied.
Putting Officer Taylor in prison
would not have been justice.
Either way,
there is no real joy in any of this.
Anita wasted taxpayer money prosecuting an officer that did what had to be done.
She is clearly trying to instill a "chilling effect" that would result in more police deaths!
Anita should be held accountable for this travesty & waste of money.
Anita Alvarez, in a stunning display of political ambition, brought those charges. They never should have been leveled. Never. She then washed her hands of it and stepped back to watch the show. No blood on her hands. She did her job. Yeah, right.
No one says we have to be stabbed or cut, even if it is an old man who served out country. Is it horrible? Sure it is. God rest his soul. That officers will have to live with it for the rest of his life. Alvarez, I am confident, will not lose a minute of sleep for her disgraceful act of cowardice, though. I hate politicians.
The officer had great support from his Chief on down. Now the family of the dead Vet can enjoy their Ghetto Lottery check from the government. Isn't that what all the hype was from the deceased family? The officer used non lethal force and did his job by the book.
In fear of an old man REALLY
I hope this officer can live with his guilt.
Shoot em ALLL
Let God Short them out
If youre Elderly Clouted or just armed with a Spork Youre Going Down
Semper FI
Militarization of the police
As a member of the CPD with 30+ years on the job, if I can't handle a 95 years old man with a knife in a manner other than shooting him then it's time for me to find a new line of work. I know I wasn't there and I normally don't make comments about situations in which I was not present but c'mon. We are not talking about some young buck with a knife we are talking about an old man. If it was your Grandfather, do you think you would have needed to shoot him? Do you think he could move fast enough to harm you? This may have been a legal shooting but sure isn't morally correct. If it were me, Id go in today and resign.
Would Garry show up if one of us were on trial???
1) once the man dropped the knife, the officer stopped.
2) the man had a DNR order, that he insisted be enforced/applied.
two important facts that were left out of the story.
Hey 30+, like you said: you weren't there.
Pretty stupid to charge this P.O. At the same time, I 100% think he's a clown for what he did.
You pull a weapon on me. I shoot. Better them than you.
Records obtained by the defense from the assisted living center revealed that none of the grieving relatives visited the offender during his three month long stay at the facility. Yes, it does appear that they are looking to cash in on his death by filing a wrongful death suit in federal court.
Explain to me how if a P.O. Is ordered by a supervisor on scene to deploy a bean bag - the only guy on trial is the PO - Anita your a piece of sh$&
Hey stupid with 30 on - if it was a young buck they would NOT have bothered with the lesser use of force - lead would of been flying!!! No retire already!!!
No winners.
Only loosers.
You had me until that last line.
Apparently John Kass knows more about the law than a judge that studied law and heard all of the evidence presented. He is a legend in his own mind. I'm canceling my subscription today.
I'm a nurse and have had to wrestle a 95 year old dementia patients many times especially when suffering from an infection. I have had above 90 crowd try to choke me, take their heart monitor and hit me in the head with it, seen above 90 punch and kick like a bar room brawl. They develop super human strength like when someone is on pcp. They don't feel pain so things that limit there movement like arthritis their brain doesn't acknowledge. Deliurum, dementia plus infection is a disaster. We usually have to call security come to hold them down and administer power an antipyschotics like goodnight or haldol and then restrain them down. So as someone who has seen a grandma with a cane take 4 security guards to restrain her, I can believe that the officer probably needed to do something to disarm him.. a grandpa was fighting like someone who doesn't want to go back to jail. Don't under estimate the elderly. That's the first thing you learn on your first year of being a nurse or you will be hurt. The nursing home is use to dealing with confused combative patients so for them to even call police it had to exceptionally bad.
The beanbags failed to do their job they were supposed to be non lethal remember. 20 yrs ago he would have been shot with real bullets. People protested about that shit so they invented beanbags as a non lethal alternative to shooting the "Old Coot"
0635:
He was shot with "less than lethal" bean bag rounds. Unfortunately, given the elderly man's frail health, he died from internal bleeding a short time later.
I like to think that I could have handled it without an escalation of force or "overreaction," but I believe that charging the officer was political in nature. He followed his departments protocols and there was no intent to harm the man.
Just my two cents.
...and he refused surgery after being shot? Around here, it's --
"II. INCOMPETENT PATIENT
A. A patient whose behavior and/or medical condition suggests incompetence has neither
the right to consent to or refuse care and/or transport.
Incompetent patients will not be
allowed to make health care decisions.
B. Procedure for Caring for a Patient Suspected to be Incompetent and Refusing Medical
Assistance and/or Transportation
1. Identify yourself and attempt to gain the patient's confidence and initiate care in a
non-threatening manner.
2. Consider and attempt to evaluate for decision-making capability and possible causes
of incompetence. (Initiate treatment as required.) Examples include:
a. Hypoxia
b. Hypotension
c. Hypoglycemia
d. Trauma (e.g. Head Injury)
e. Alcohol/Drug/Chemical Intoxication or Reaction
f. Stroke/CVA
g. Postictal States/Seizures
h. Electrolyte Imbalance
i. Infections
j. Dementia (e.g., acute or chronic organic brain syndrome)
k. Psychiatric/behavioral emergencies (e.g., suicidal, inability to care for self,
homicidal)
3. Once a patient is judged to be clearly incompetent, EMS personnel should attempt to
carry out treatment and transport in the interest of the patient's welfare
a. At all times EMS personnel should avoid placing themselves in danger; this may
mean a delay in the initiation of treatment until the personal safety of the EMS
personnel is assured. Contact Resource/Associate Hospital, police and/or fire
department backup as appropriate.
b. Try to obtain cooperation through conventional means.
4. If the patient resists care and/or transport:
a. Request police and/or fire department backup as needed.
b. Contact Resource/Associate Hospital as needed.
c. Reasonable force may be used to restrain the patient if the patient is a risk to self
or others (see policy - Restraints).
d. The requirement to initiate assessment and patient care may be waived in favor
of assuring that the patient is transported to the closest appropriate emergency
department. Document clearly the reasons for deviation in care."
http://chicagosouthems.uchicago.edu/files/2012/09/PP_APPROVEDJune-2012.pdf
I went to CIT training a number of years ago and have two takeaways. One is time is usually on your side dealing with EDPs, i.e. talk, develop rapport and move slowly AND to have plan B ready if the first approach does not work. One of the scenarios at my session was the disturbed person with a knife.
As a member of the CPD with 30+ years on the job, if I can't handle a 95 years old man with a knife in a manner other than shooting him then it's time for me to find a new line of work. I know I wasn't there and I normally don't make comments about situations in which I was not present but c'mon. We are not talking about some young buck with a knife we are talking about an old man. If it was your Grandfather, do you think you would have needed to shoot him? Do you think he could move fast enough to harm you? This may have been a legal shooting but sure isn't morally correct. If it were me, Id go in today and resign.
2/05/2015 06:35:00 AM
Maybe his grandson or his son should have gone and got the knife away from him? That's right, they didn't give a fuck. You can't expect other people to get hurt because you or your relative has gone crazy, for whatever reason. If you don't think that a 95 year old man can hurt you with a 12 inch knife that he's refusing to put down than you simply don't know shit.
I've disobeyed direct orders when they were wrong and later, when cooler heads prevailed, nothing ever came of them. No CR, no spar, no nothing.
That whole fucking situation short circuited.
No winners.
Only loosers.
2/05/2015 12:44:00 AM
Im glad you are not part of our elite military. Guys like you who think they are smarter than everyone else and don't have to follow orders. The fact is the only order you don't have to follow is an unlawful one. You aren't smart enough to pick and choose what orders you will or won't follow. That is what is wrong with this department today. (Among one thousand other reasons)
Anonymous said...
In fear of an old man REALLY
I hope this officer can live with his guilt.
2/05/2015 05:49:00 AM
You obviously are not the police. It doesn't matter if it is an 8 yr old kid or a 95 yr old man. Someone armed with a knife can do tremendous damage to another person. It has nothing to do with fear you idiot, it has to do with physics and the dynamics of the situation. Maybe read up on the "21 foot rule" regarding knifes. It was a tragic situation for all involved. Im sure the officer while relieved that he is not going to prison (and he shouldn't), he still has to live with the fact that he took a human life when that clearly was not his intention. That is why it is called NON LETHAL USE OF FORCE. Go back in your basement fool.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
As a member of the CPD with 30+ years on the job, if I can't handle a 95 years old man with a knife in a manner other than shooting him then it's time for me to find a new line of work. I know I wasn't there and I normally don't make comments about situations in which I was not present but c'mon. We are not talking about some young buck with a knife we are talking about an old man. If it was your Grandfather, do you think you would have needed to shoot him? Do you think he could move fast enough to harm you? This may have been a legal shooting but sure isn't morally correct. If it were me, Id go in today and resign.
2/05/2015 06:35:00 AM
Hey Tough guy, it wasn't a shooting. It was a use of a non lethal force option. You are right about one thing though, you shouldn't monday morning quarterback when you weren't there. Maybe you didn't learn that in your 30+ years on the job.
The officer was, according to state law authorized to use deadly force. He actually used one step below what he could have. This never should have gone to trial. We the police are targets of this current administration starting with Anita Alvarez. What a joke.
I normally don't make comments about situations in which I was not present...
Yet, you did here.
Should've stopped after you said
"I wasn't present".
Anonymous said...
As a member of the CPD with 30+ years on the job, if I can't handle a 95 years old man with a knife in a manner other than shooting him then it's time for me to find a new line of work. I know I wasn't there and I normally don't make comments about situations in which I was not present but c'mon. We are not talking about some young buck with a knife we are talking about an old man. If it was your Grandfather, do you think you would have needed to shoot him? Do you think he could move fast enough to harm you? This may have been a legal shooting but sure isn't morally correct. If it were me, Id go in today and resign.
You probably should resign. The circumstances can not be changed. The copper used a less than lethal shotgun with bean bag rounds. He didn't shoot the guy. He deployed the shotgun per/within policy.
Not all things work as advertised like most things in life. Most agency protocols, CPD included, require you to be medically cleared after having less lethal weapons deployed on you. The old guy refused medical attention, the Cops didn't push for medical clearance, that's why he's taking a dirt nap.
In the end cops did their job and went home to their family. And again you got your retro. Be gone...
Maybe this was a 'suicide by cop'. The guy was 95, maybe he was sick of living. He did refuse surgery after the incident.
Apparently his family -- now so distraught -- were sick of taking care of him and put him in a nursing home.
If I ever kill someone unintentionally, I will feel bad about it for as many years as the deceased could have expected to live.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not Monday morning quarterbacking but that tragedy should never, ever, have happened.
This was not a millisecond, shoot, don't shoot scenario, where, unless you were there, you can't really try to second guess or know what happened.
It just plain and simpleshould not have unfolded the way it did.
The nursing home over-reacted. The cops over-reacted. The tactical plan stunk. The copper should never have been brought to trial as the fall guy. And he should never have pulled the trigger either. I don't care whether it was a diret order or not.
I've disobeyed direct orders when they were wrong and later, when cooler heads prevailed, nothing ever came of them. No CR, no spar, no nothing.
That whole fucking situation short circuited.
No winners.
Only loosers.
2/05/2015 12:44:00 AM
You said it best, Brother.
My 90 year old dad had the same urinary tract infection and was out of his mind. My brother and I had to wrestle him to the ground. If he was armed he could have easily killed us or my Mom. It was like he was on PCP. This was tragic but not criminal. We can't second guess and neither can the media especially John Mass who pushed the issue in his columns.
Anonymous said...
Not Monday morning quarterbacking but that tragedy should never, ever, have happened.
This was not a millisecond, shoot, don't shoot scenario, where, unless you were there, you can't really try to second guess or know what happened.
It just plain and simpleshould not have unfolded the way it did.
The nursing home over-reacted. The cops over-reacted. The tactical plan stunk. The copper should never have been brought to trial as the fall guy. And he should never have pulled the trigger either. I don't care whether it was a diret order or not.
I've disobeyed direct orders when they were wrong and later, when cooler heads prevailed, nothing ever came of them. No CR, no spar, no nothing.
That whole fucking situation short circuited.
No winners.
Only loosers.
2/05/2015 12:44:00 AM
Anonymous said...
In fear of an old man REALLY
I hope this officer can live with his guilt.
2/05/2015 05:49:00 AM
Anonymous said...
As a member of the CPD with 30+ years on the job, if I can't handle a 95 years old man with a knife in a manner other than shooting him then it's time for me to find a new line of work. I know I wasn't there and I normally don't make comments about situations in which I was not present but c'mon. We are not talking about some young buck with a knife we are talking about an old man. If it was your Grandfather, do you think you would have needed to shoot him? Do you think he could move fast enough to harm you? This may have been a legal shooting but sure isn't morally correct. If it were me, Id go in today and resign.
2/05/2015 06:35:00 AM
use of force model. he had a knife which makes it a deadly force stiuation irregardless of his age. the copper would of been justified in shooting the individual but instead opted to use a less lethal method. also surgery that could of saved him he and/or his family did not approve.
its a sad situation all around and im sure the officer does not wish this on anyone. but he acted correctly in this situation.
Looks to me as though the poor old guys family just came out of the woodwork after he died. I bet most of them hardly if ever visited him at a nursing home and now they see a cash cow as they become his estate. I feel bad for this police officer and his dept. if and when they have another deadly force incident or use less lethal force they will always be questioned. I do know that my own 95 year old father is still mentally sharp but his body parts are frail, I would not be happy if anyone did this to him. If you cannot disarm an old guy like that then maybe it is time to seek other employment. And I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking and hope this never happens to me.
To the poster calling the old man a geezer...sarcasm or not it's disrespectful. He was a combat vet from WW2 amd should not have left this life the way he did. This cop should not have been tried but the park forest police and the nursing home should feel ashamed.
No riots or protests. Eric Holder? Obama? Sharpen? Oh yea he was white and the Officer is black.
I'm the 1st to agree the death of this man was very tragic. I'm sure no one anticipated the outcome.
An initial attempt to tazer him was unsuccessful. Normally, a single bean bag would put him down to the degree to disarm him.
His advanced age, mental condition, including his refusal to allow immediate medical care attributed to the outcome.
Nobody could anticipate the outcome or other measures would have been used.
While again, his death is a complete tragedy, I don't think that intent, an element of the offense was present and he should not have been charged criminally.
If the city wants to settle on a civil charge, many more ghetto lottery bucks have been handed out to many undeserving families.
While cash will not bring back the man, I don't believe the officer, knowingly, without authority intended to kill the man.
The only celebrating was the fact that the court realized it as well.
Rest in Peace sir. God will judge us all some day.
Old man armed with knife. Two cops armed with blanket. Problem solved.
Good guy won !
I love how people say they don't want to Monday morning quarterback, and then they do. This old man was obviously a big enough problem that the police were called. I don't care how old he is, he doesn't have to be quick or skilled, he just has to be lucky once to kill you.
I expect this crap from clueless civilians, not other cops.
To the unpublished:
We're wrong? How? You aren't expecting a flood of John Kass articles? You've already lost that bet.
And if you notice (which you didn't), we took no position whatsoever on this incident. We stated that there (A) would be John Kass articles and (B) his Chief appeared with him and court. So far, we're batting 1.000 and you aren't even in the park.
Lastly, if you read rule #2 on the right, your wish is granted. Asshat.
Did the old man deserve to die??? Of course not.
Were the police justified on their amount of force used??
Yes they were.
John kass and mary Mitchell are one in the same... anti-police.
Do you kass defenders FINALLY see it??
In fear of an old man REALLY
I hope this officer can live with his guilt.
2/05/2015 05:49:00 AM
Sir,you are a real ass
As a member of the CPD with 30+ years on the job, if I can't handle a 95 years old man with a knife in a manner other than shooting him then it's time for me to find a new line of work. I know I wasn't there and I normally don't make comments about situations in which I was not present but c'mon. We are not talking about some young buck with a knife we are talking about an old man. If it was your Grandfather, do you think you would have needed to shoot him? Do you think he could move fast enough to harm you? This may have been a legal shooting but sure isn't morally correct. If it were me, Id go in today and resign.
Time for retirement for you 30+
Anonymous said...
I've disobeyed direct orders when they were wrong and later, when cooler heads prevailed, nothing ever came of them. No CR, no spar, no nothing.
That whole fucking situation short circuited.
No winners.
Only loosers.
2/05/2015 12:44:00 AM
Im glad you are not part of our elite military. Guys like you who think they are smarter than everyone else and don't have to follow orders. The fact is the only order you don't have to follow is an unlawful one. You aren't smart enough to pick and choose what orders you will or won't follow. That is what is wrong with this department today. (Among one thousand other reasons)
Common sense and BALLS trump simply following orders.
2/05/2015 10:41:00 AM
Anonymous said...
No winners.
Only loosers.
You had me until that last line.
2/05/2015 09:10:00 AM
You are correct. I should have left it at as "no winners".
That whole fucking situation short circuited.
No winners.
Only loosers.
2/05/2015 12:44:00 AM
You said it best, Brother.
2/05/2015 11:35:00 AM
Thank you, though another poster who responded to my comment was correct in that I should have left it a "no winners".
Looks to me as though the poor old guys family just came out of the woodwork after he died. I bet most of them hardly if ever visited him at a nursing home and now they see a cash cow as they become his estate. I feel bad for this police officer and his dept. if and when they have another deadly force incident or use less lethal force they will always be questioned. I do know that my own 95 year old father is still mentally sharp but his body parts are frail, I would not be happy if anyone did this to him. If you cannot disarm an old guy like that then maybe it is time to seek other employment. And I'm not Monday morning quarterbacking and hope this never happens to me
Won't be a cash cow. The courts dont hand out big settlements to 95 year olds in a nursing home. Most settlements are set by future earnings potential,age and if you have a family to support that is now without a bread winner
Hands up, old coot!
I don't know - when Pablo Picasso was 95 he could impregnate a woman in the morning and paint a masterpiece in the afternoon.
I am disgusted by the fact that four large men with shields, stun guns, batons,mace could not hold off a sick old man in his 90's. I just don't feel good about this. I do not want to see a police man lose his job or get a felony conviction, but his supervisor should have been held accountable for a crappy plan.
Anonymous said...
The officer had great support from his Chief on down. Now the family of the dead Vet can enjoy their Ghetto Lottery check from the government. Isn't that what all the hype was from the deceased family? The officer used non lethal force and did his job by the book.
2/05/2015 05:48:00 AM
Something wrong with the "book".
Nobody mentions that using a "less lethal" beanbag round from inside of 10 feet on a 95 year old 5'6" elderly man it becomes lethal force without a doubt. May have well shot him with a buckshot round. Stupid tactics, stupid execution of tactics, with nobody at the scene saying wait a second. A bunch of coppers are going to use lethal force on a little elderly guy? Nobody could see that going bad for them?
What's OC spray for?
Anonymous said...
Old man armed with knife. Two cops armed with blanket. Problem solved.
2/05/2015 02:41:00 PM
This isn't Rock, Paper, Scissors, you goof. A knife can easily puncture through a blanket and maybe cut a major artery on the officer wielding "the blanket" Glad I don't work with you.
Another example of the war on police starting with the media twisting the facts, and stressing one portion of the story (age). The typical politician then responds to the pressure with bunk charges, knowing damn well the law was not violated as this was a deadly force situation. Cant' wait to retire and move the fuck out of this state. 24 on, it's getting close, Arizona here I come!
I can't believe what I am reading from fellow officers. Let me see if I got this right if not please someone correct me. The man had a knife and was threatening hospital patients and employees. The hospital orderly's and security couldn't disarm or get him to release the knife. The police are called and when they arrive the man refuses orders to drop the knife.
OC spray can't be used because of the other patient's. The police step it up one notch and taser him he still does not drop the knife, taser him, a ninety five year old man is tasered and still is combative and threatening. Now police step it up another notch and shoot him once with a bean bag and nothing. Four more times and he finally goes down and releases the knife. The man then has enough left to refuse medical attention. That is one tough old dude. It's a damn shame the war vet died but WTF the officer did nothing wrong. Shame on you all! You have teens and
pre teens being shot and killed for waving a knife or gun. Support the officer I'm sure he is not happy with what happened and will regret it every day.
Really? 95 yoa, 150 pounds armed with a shoe horn and aluminum cane and you can't handle him?
You should not wear the uniform!
The problem I see lately is that the police are scared to go hands on, the whole "fear for my life" shit does not work.
95 year old man and you call for back up?
Riot shield?
Taser?
Shot gun?
Grow some balls, go hands on and end it.
Some times you gotta take a hit.
"OC spray can't be used because of the other patient's."
2/06/2015 12:53:00 PM
Not the whole can. Just a squirt right where it belongs. Shut door all other rooms, get that big floor-drying fan going out the fire exit end of hall.
Me, I just grabbed their wrist and took/shook it away from them. More than once. Kitchen knives, jagged old-style can openers, etc. Bigger and stronger than they are. No one hurt.
Take it slow. No emergency great big hurry. Down on call, every minute counts toward your retirement. Everyone out and let him rant/rave 30 min. Crack door again. Knife hand comes out opening, well...better a broken wrist, huh?
Just thinking from where I've been. Easy, easy, all. God bless.
Anonymous said...
I can't believe what I am reading from fellow officers. Let me see if I got this right if not please someone correct me. The man had a knife and was threatening hospital patients and employees. The hospital orderly's and security couldn't disarm or get him to release the knife. The police are called and when they arrive the man refuses orders to drop the knife.
OC spray can't be used because of the other patient's. The police step it up one notch and taser him he still does not drop the knife, taser him, a ninety five year old man is tasered and still is combative and threatening. Now police step it up another notch and shoot him once with a bean bag and nothing. Four more times and he finally goes down and releases the knife. The man then has enough left to refuse medical attention. That is one tough old dude. It's a damn shame the war vet died but WTF the officer did nothing wrong. Shame on you all! You have teens and
pre teens being shot and killed for waving a knife or gun. Support the officer I'm sure he is not happy with what happened and will regret it every day.
2/06/2015 12:53:00 PM
No, shame on you for being the General Orders Robot Police who lacks common sense, imagination, and most of all, BALLS. You VILL!!, I repeat, VILL do Vat I Say!! Follow zee ORDERS!!
Really? 95 yoa, 150 pounds armed with a shoe horn and aluminum cane and you can't handle him?
You should not wear the uniform!
The problem I see lately is that the police are scared to go hands on, the whole "fear for my life" shit does not work.
95 year old man and you call for back up?
Riot shield?
Taser?
Shot gun?
Grow some balls, go hands on and end it.
Some times you gotta take a hit.
2/06/2015 10:25:00 PM
You can't even read. You're too fucking lazy or too stupid to read the article and acknowledge all the facts. Quite simply, you are a blithering idiot.
Bottom line.....If the old gentleman had acceded to the emergency room doctors requests he'd be alive today and this would have been a non story.
Make no mistake about it......Kass is not your Friend.
This mans actions at the scene and at the hospital indicate that this was a suicide by cop.
Geez...
Kass was carrying on like the perfect tree to hang the officer from is in his back yard or something...
Police like you have no friends...
Protect yourself against all physical and financial harm
at all times.
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