This Looks Like Good News
- A lawyer for the state faced skeptical questioning from Illinois Supreme Court justices Wednesday as she defended a landmark pension reform law by arguing that benefit cuts to public workers were a response to a financial emergency tied to the Great Recession.
But lawyers for public employee unions reminded the court that the Illinois Constitution barred changes that "diminish or impair" pension benefits, adding that if an emergency exists it's the state's fault for decades of poor financial management.
After nearly an hour of legal arguments before the state's highest court, there was no indication of how or when the seven justices would rule. But the eventual decision will have widespread ramifications for state taxpayers as well as those in Chicago and towns throughout Illinois struggling to cope with growing pension debts that are straining government budgets.
It's truly sad that a lawyer, after how many years of school, has to be educated by the Illinois Supreme Court as to the fact that words have meaning, and laws made up of words have meaning, too. This is not a financial emergency - this is years and years of deliberate mismanagement on the part of Springfield and Chicago, buying off certain constituencies with money that should have been set aside - was in fact required to be set aside - for promises made. People should be in jail for what is going on, but again, the entire legislature, most recent governors and lord knows how many mayors, starting with Shortshanks, would overcrowd the prisons.
Labels: money questions, pension
posted by SCC at 12:35 AM
139 Comments:
007 really lucked out with your new boss. And in 005 he will be sorely missed.
In that lawyers defense, unless she's a complete moron, I'm willing to bet that she believes that our pension is owed to us and that she is fighting a losing battle. She took her marching orders like an adult and did the best she could with what she was given.
Did Anne Burke recuse herself? Shouldn't she, considering her vested interest in her husband's municipal pension(s) and his participation in the decimation of City of Chicago pension funds?
Everyone thought Obamacare was going to be overturned by the US Supreme Court too.
This makes P-71 happy!
OT: Two officers shot at Ferguson protest tonight. Injuries sound very bad.
Wasn't it Nolan's regime that actually allowed the city to take pension holidays? Whichever FOP board members voted to allow that travesty should be ashamed of themselves.
I agree with you SCC people should certainly be in jail for intentional malfeasance for what has gone on with the underfunding of pensions.
Shortshanks and Rahm are directly responsible for our pensions current woeful condition. Shortshanks was at the helm for 20 years of mismanagement, underfunding and flat out theft of pension funds.
Rahm flat out refuses to make the city's required contribution until he gets the "reform", aka slash and gash, that HE wants..... remember it's all about Rahm not the dedicated public servants that he's trying to screw.
I've been saying this all along. It's political theater. The politicians who created this mess have to appear to have exhausted all possibilities before the massive tax increase that nobody now denies is coming.
The same rule of law that protects our pensions protect the judges and politicians pensions too.
The middle class will once again get stuck with the bill.
I can't believe no one in Springfield saw this coming. Sometimes I wonder if the underfunding of the pension system was done on purpose. Kind of like ignoring a leg infection until it gets so bad you have to amputate.
Was that Rahms corporation counsel, Stephen Patton, seated right behind the table of attorneys arguing to cut existing retiree benefits?
Watch the video and it sure looks like him taking notes during the oral arguments.
What does that tell you?
Great analogy from one of the lawyers
The state seeking to avoid fiscal responsibility for the pension crisis they created is like a defendant who killed his parents asking for leniency because he is an orphan.
The Chicago Housing Authority has a $880 million dollar budget, why not cut that in half to pay for pensions???
I said the same thing in a recent online post. An emergency is usually something that is unforeseen. When you are 110 BILLION behind in your bills who the fuck is that an emergency? I mean why did the light, bells and whistles go off now at this mark? Why didn't they go off at 80B or 60B? Or how about when the first went into the red? I get it. You're 1B behind but 110B or so? "Oh my bad. Didn't realize the state could just keep going into the red unhindered."
Don't get too excited . A few well timed and positioned painful tax increases will be enough to get the votes for a constitutional convention .
The only thing worse than having your pension reduced before you retire would be having it reduced after .
Two officers shot, seriously injured outside Ferguson police department
Published March 12, 2015
"Two police officers were shot and wounded early Thursday outside the police department in Ferguson, Mo. amid protests that followed the resignation of the town's police chief.
"St. Louis County Police Chief Jon Belmar told a news conference that a 41-year-old officer from St. Louis County was shot in the shoulder at around midnight local time, while a 32-year-old officer from suburban Webster Groves was shot in the face. Both victims were taken to a local hospital.
"Later Thursday morning, the St. Louis County Police Department said both officers...were in serious condition.
"Belmar said that at least three shots were fired and were believed to come from a house across the street from the police department..."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/12/2-police-officers-reported-shot-outside-ferguson-police-department/
Nothing about the changes coming Sunday?
And this is BAD NEWS. does it make Eric Holder happy now.
Two police officers were shot in front of the Ferguson Police Department early Thursday, authorities said, as demonstrators gathered after the resignation of the city’s police chief in the wake of a scathing Justice Department report alleging bias in the police department and court.
Listening to Bob Thomas hammering the attorney for the state was priceless, he made the whole case for the retirees.
As the man said: " being unprepared may be an emergency on your part, but not my part". 25 years of government financial mismanagement isn't an emergency, it's deliberate
So what happens after the court rules in our favor? I fear the politicians will find a way to declare bankruptcy,ugh!
Like it or not, the state does not have the money for pensions.
Think about it the law is the law, do you think the justices would diminish benefits when how many of their families would lose out? Financial emergency hardly, this was done to corruption in illinois at the political level, let's hope the next president sends in the Feds and let's the new U.S. Attorney Fardon use all his resources to put the elected criminals in prison for a long time, and seize all assets!
Lawyers know what the words mean, they simply choose to ignore them.
Now, kees me you fool!! !
Just give back the money each worker paid into the fund.
OT --
Osama Bin Laden's collection of "selfies!"
Very interesting.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/11/world/osama-bin-laden-hideout-photos/index.html
Rahm is the "cleaner..."
He's here to make sure there is no financial
crime scene. That is why it's so important to
bust Chicago Coppers out of their pensions
before Rahm leaves office/statute of limitations
expire so that when there is another administration
that would have a notion to seek justice for us, there
will be no justice to be had because Rahm has cleaned
and scrubbed the crime scene and everybody will say:
"It sure sucks to be an active/retired Chicago Copper, don't it?"
That is the reason Rahm is here and he has $30 Million in election money given to him by the same bunch that were fed so much of our pension money by Shortshanks to begin with...
Viva Hate.
Sorry, off topic: I have to get this off my chest. I'm in a district full of young officers. My issue is officer safety! I'm seeing young inexperienced officers working with other young officers. They are making traffic stops and street stops. I've been observing their tactics and it makes my stomach turn. Failure to take control of the stop, taking their eyes off the subject, sloppy pat-downs, getting numerous subjects out of the car at the same time, and much more. I help as much as I can, but they seem to think they are doing things correctly. Whoever is teaching tactics in the academy needs to do a better job or more time needs to be spent on this. I am worried about the anti-police atmosphere we are in, combined with sloppy tactics, could result in tragedy. Please spent more time on this in the academy and maybe even push for some week long refresher classes for veterans. This is so important to me, and I hope the right people see this.
SCC, are you familiar with exponential mathematical functions? A 3% perpetual annualized COLA is just such a function. Even the massaged government statistics inform us that the US (and Illinois) are growing economically far below 3% per year, and any sane examination suggests that shrinkage, not growth, is in the cards.
It was plainly stupid to embed such a function into the pension system, and unless someone thinks it's possible to double, triple, or more both income and property taxes to continue to cover this folly, something is going to change whether the black robes believe it or not.
Politicians over-promised for delivery in the future, but money that can't be paid, won't be paid. One more Great Recession and it will be over, because taxpayers will revolt.
If the pension reform bill ruled unconstitutional, there will be a massive PR campaign against public employee pensions. You will see the government blaming all the financial woes on it. A massive property tax hike will be proposed, and than a referendum vote on opening up the state constitution. It will be a simple choice, massive tax hike or change the constitution.
It is coming, remember this post.
How about the City unions that gave away some of their pension benefits? They must be feeling MIGHTY STUPID right about now. And, while on the subject of stooopid, does anyone remember the lawyer for the sergeants union that tried to engineer the deal to give back pension benefits for ALL working and retired officers? Anyone? Well, in case you forgot, ask Disability Dean who he is, because that lawyer has been back on the FOP gravy train since little dean was elected. Birds of a feather, and all that.
O.T. Immigration System
I am so fucking sick of our own government undermining the lives of our own citizens. My son graduated from UIC with a degree in electrical engineering. However, employers would rather hire Indians (from India) on a short term basis via the H1B1 visa. So in other words fuck over the native born American and help the foreigner. This sort of stuff is maddening. They say Americans are not skilled enough in math and science. Complete bullshit. The corporations would rather pay a foreigner less money than someone who is equally qualified and born here.
We are losing the rule of law because we fail to use the lawful remedies and instead make up rules as we go. In this case, as with the big bank bail outs by the federal gov, the correct remedy if there is a need for one is bankruptcy.
Maybe you will see your pensions as promised and maybe you will not. I am not taking sides here, but over promising on pensions is an ongoing scam. When the entity making the promise is a government or corporation, commonly the people making the promise move on before it has to be fulfilled, so they buy labor peace by over promising in the future. A nasty business, but that is the way it is.
Has one politician ever suggested lowering their pension? They probably don't have to because their pensions are fully funded. Only in America can you have a fully funded pension for a part time job. They should all be hung.
(head shaking) These lawyers for the state are real pieces of work. What they're doing is like a Lawyer for a kid who murdered his parents pleading for the Judge to be lenient because he's an orphan.
An interesting constitutional battle.
The State passes a law to reform pensions.
Workers object based on the "shall not be diminished or impaired" provision of the constitution, and argue that the law is unconstitutional.
State responds by saying if even the law violates "shall not be diminished or impaired" that the State is invoking a higher constitutional authority, the Police Powers provision, which would allow the State to bend the rules in the event of an emergency.
So do we have an emergency? Arguably yes, and if not it certainly is a "crisis".
But labels don't make any difference, and the States case will probably fail anyways, due to the "Clean Hands" doctrine.
Clean Hands is an equitable principle which says that he who seeks equity must do equity. Said differently, if someone wants the court to right a wrong, the complainant must not have played a role in the wrong situation. And that is exactly where the State's case falls apart.
The current emergency, crisis, or whatever you want to call it is a clear and direct a result of decades of Democratic mis-management. The Democrats (Madigan and Daley) were required to make the payments over time, and failed to do so.
Because the State is directly responsible for the current situation, the State should be barred from invoking the Police Powers provision.
Open and shut case.
Call the next case. Not a cop.
O/T
Early this morning, two police officers were shot by sniper fire in front of the Ferguson, MO police station where many police were cordoning off demonstrators.
No further details at this time..
Justice Bob Thomas, Bears Emeritus, seems to be the only real Statesman on this issue.
Yes, but in some cases, these lack of government payments into pension funds were made with the consent of the unions, people who were elected to protect the interests of their members. The teachers union comes to mind first, but there are others. It is a crisis now, one that many people outside of government say cannot be solved absent cuts in pensions, either through agreement or through bankruptcy of the funds.
Read International Business Chicago Teacher Pension Funds Invested with Friends and Donors of Emanuel
Go out and max all your credit cards, apply for more, spend-spend-spend and still ignore the bills.
Who does this?
Run up your water, electric and gas bill and still don't pay a cent. Who does this?
The working chump gets hammered when the government comes for their money.
Rahm continues what Daley started, more spending and manipulating the books all the while throwing extravagant pageantry to hide the ruins.
DUMP RAHM - April 7.
These law suits are a shot in the dark. You and they never know when the supreme court might give a favorable ruling against all odds.
It's the equivalent of winning the lotto.
It was written into the Illinois constitution with this kind of assault by our own lawmakers in mind.
They foresaw that at some time in the future our own law makers would attempt to bankrupt our state and cities instead of paying their obligations to the citizens that elected them. Their mismanagement of our tax dollars is the root of the problem and yet we continue to elect these traitors to the working citizens of this state. Why do we elect these weasels that are in favor of pension reform?
A simple answer is Corporations are people too, said the US supreme court. Super PACS run these elections and we the people don't get it yet. One percenters are in charge cause they won the lotto. I say let them spend all their then vote them out!
What's going on with the inspectors at 26-cal?
When Holder is done The Furgeson PD will be the likes of Dixmor, Harvey, Ford Heights departments.....
Here we go again. The taxpayers FUNDED your pensions, the politicians stole it, and now the taxpayers have to DOUBLE FUND your pensions? Since the kid analogies seem to be so effective, let's say you tell your kids you'll take them to Disneyland if they're good all year. Then someone breaks into your house and steals your life's savings. The kids demand Disneyland. Do you raid your grocery and utility money to go to Disneyland? Do you take a second job just to pay for Disneyland? Or do you explain to the kids that, while it's not THEIR fault, it's not YOUR fault either, but you CAN'T go to Disneyland? Of course, if you're a politician, you just go TAKE the money from someone else and go to Disneyland twice.
I get why you're all upset about your pensions. I would be too. But as a taxpayer, it's not MY fault, and I'm not going to foot the bill for the criminal who stole from BOTH of us. Sorry, this is going to be evenly spread. MY money destined for your pension was stolen, that's MY end of the unfortunate bargain. YOU are now going to reap your end of the bargain, namely, the money isn't there. When cops start volunteering their own personal money to reimburse citizens who have suffered losses due to crime, THEN we can start talking about citizens using their own personal money to reimburse cops who have suffered losses due to crime.
You are very much appreciated by this citizen for the tough job you have chosen. I have PAID for you to be reimbursed for doing that job, including all benefits you were to receive for doing that job. I thank you, and would shake your hand. My responsibility in the matter ends there.
Sorry, off topic: I have to get this off my chest. I'm in a district full of young officers. My issue is officer safety! I'm seeing young inexperienced officers working with other young officers. They are making traffic stops and street stops. I've been observing their tactics and it makes my stomach turn. Failure to take control of the stop, taking their eyes off the subject, sloppy pat-downs, getting numerous subjects out of the car at the same time, and much more. I help as much as I can, but they seem to think they are doing things correctly. Whoever is teaching tactics in the academy needs to do a better job or more time needs to be spent on this. I am worried about the anti-police atmosphere we are in, combined with sloppy tactics, could result in tragedy. Please spent more time on this in the academy and maybe even push for some week long refresher classes for veterans. This is so important to me, and I hope the right people see this.
3/12/2015 08:13:00 AM
Prolem is not at the academy,you don't really learn anything there anyway, the problem is with the foot patrol, you spend most of probationary time with another ppo who knows the same as you, then when probation is up you get assigned to a district and get put with another po just off status who knows just as much as you also, correct me if i'm wrong but prior to all this foot patrol nonsense ppo's after their fto cycles ( depending who they got might learn a little something if anything) would get assigned to a district then bounce around with other p.os that had time and could show them the ropes a little better for when they did get off status !
We Won fuck the city !
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Was that Rahms corporation counsel, Stephen Patton, seated right behind the table of attorneys arguing to cut existing retiree benefits?
Watch the video and it sure looks like him taking notes during the oral arguments.
What does that tell you?
3/12/2015 06:12:00 AM
It tells you what you should have known all along. Rahm Emanuel is using the State case to build and embellish upon the case he expects with the police and other City workers. He intends to destroy our pensions.
Anyone who votes for this evil man is voting to destroy their own future. Rahm Emanuel needs to be drummed out of office and out of this city.
Anonymous said...
"Like it or not, the state does not have the money for pensions."
3/12/2015 07:21:00 AM
Nah, no money for earned pensions but there's plenty of money for LINK cards, free housing, etc, etc.
SCC, are you familiar with exponential mathematical functions? A 3% perpetual annualized COLA is just such a function. Even the massaged government statistics inform us that the US (and Illinois) are growing economically far below 3% per year, and any sane examination suggests that shrinkage, not growth, is in the cards.
It was plainly stupid to embed such a function into the pension system, and unless someone thinks it's possible to double, triple, or more both income and property taxes to continue to cover this folly, something is going to change whether the black robes believe it or not.
Politicians over-promised for delivery in the future, but money that can't be paid, won't be paid. One more Great Recession and it will be over, because taxpayers will revolt.
3/12/2015 08:28:00 AM
Dear David, Though scc needs no defense, let me add my thoughts.
You can use all the fancy words you've got, but the truth is, some years investments make phenomenal returns. Some years, they don't.
It should all average out well above what is needed, provided 1)the pension is fully funded, by ALL parties who are required to contribute and 2)it is well-managed by people who have only the best interest of the annuitants in mind.
It should not be HALF-funded, by only the workers, which effectively limits the maximum investment income by half. And it should not be managed by those who are solely interested in lining their own pockets in the short run, then fleeing the jurisdiction.
ps - Our cola is a fixed percentage and does not increase from year to year. It does not compound.
Blogger David said...
SCC, are you familiar with exponential mathematical functions? A 3% perpetual annualized COLA is just such a function. Even the massaged government statistics inform us that the US (and Illinois) are growing economically far below 3% per year, and any sane examination suggests that shrinkage, not growth, is in the cards.
It was plainly stupid to embed such a function into the pension system, and unless someone thinks it's possible to double, triple, or more both income and property taxes to continue to cover this folly, something is going to change whether the black robes believe it or not.
Politicians over-promised for delivery in the future, but money that can't be paid, won't be paid. One more Great Recession and it will be over, because taxpayers will revolt.
Finally, someone with some sense. If we want a pension when we retire there must be some reform. to the pension. Cant stop bringing up the old argument that the City didn't keep up its end. Whats done is done and shit I dont want a 401K. As always be safe.
O/T but to main point concerning Team Blue now:
Increased Vigilance is not enough in WAR Gentlemen and Ladies. You are being targeted deliberately for so far selected shootings and killings that would not happen absent sufficient Clout to green light these political murders.
You had better face what is happening coldly and decide what you're going to do. Same as usual plus more vigilance is a proven formula for failure.
I suggest you first face your true situation - you are an objective in war of a centralizing power jealous and coveting your plenary police powers which are held locally, then decide if you want to either fight or surrender.
Surrender is merely signing a Letter of Consent to be overseen by the DOJ.
Because DOJ is the enemy you face. Ruin, media witchunts and trials, doxxing and threats, harassment being insufficient they now KILL YOU.
If you continue with business as usual plus more vigilance then there will be escalations, I mean greater bloodshed than 2 shot.
Because last night was just the first spring thaw, fighting season [warm weather] has only begun.
Politics is Power, and wars are power struggles. Centralizing governments usually shed blood on their way to absolute Central Control, through accidents of History that blood is presently yours.
You have some decisions to make.
You are at present the Front Line in what is now a War, and no Crime isn't war, and wasn't War. As sadly will become clearer.
Good Luck, Be Safe.
Anonymous said...
Just give back the money each worker paid into the fund.
3/12/2015 07:56:00 AM
A little soft there, sport.
Get back, let's say 19 years of contributions with having no benefit of what might have been earned on it if had it been invested wisely?
Not a good deal. Not even remotely so.
Ann Burke step kids work for the city and the state and for the board of Ed will she vote ? The answer is Hell No and one workes for the country with Dart!
Listen stupid, the 3% that the police get is not compounded. That means that it never goes up it always stays the same amount year after year. It is 3% of your pension when you retire. When you die you spouse get 50% of your pension for the rest of their life with no raises.
The alderman, state employees and I think the other city employees union get 85% of their pay and 3% annual raise that is compounded each year.
Compared to theirs the police pension is shit stupid.
Where were the trustees when the city failed to fund year after year?
Maybe they should be prosecuted for malfeasance?
They should have come to the FOP and roll calls explaining the consequences year year of nonpayment by the city?
Oh, Daley wouldn't like that.
What does that tell you?
That he doesn't have any original arguments ?
Don't get too excited . A few well timed and positioned painful tax increases will be enough to get the votes for a constitutional convention .
Where would the State get the $$$ to fund that ?
Anonymous said...
Don't get too excited . A few well timed and positioned painful tax increases will be enough to get the votes for a constitutional convention .
The only thing worse than having your pension reduced before you retire would be having it reduced after .
3/12/2015 06:46:00 AM
Your last sentence is absolutely correct!
Every 20 years, Illinois citizens get to vote whether or not to call for a constitutional convention. It requires 60% of the vote to convene one.
The next vote, by law, would be November 4th, 2028.
If passed, then the delegates could propose amendments which would effectively create a new constitution, which would then have to be voted on Statewide within six months after the convention adjourned. It would have to have been published and would require a simple majority vote.
The last call for a constitution vote was 2008. 67.23% of the state voted not to convene one.
Next vote is 13 years away.
Tempus fugit.
SCC, are you familiar with exponential mathematical functions? A 3% perpetual annualized COLA is just such a function. Even the massaged government statistics inform us that the US (and Illinois) are growing economically far below 3% per year, and any sane examination suggests that shrinkage, not growth, is in the cards
Growth is coming, that's why the Fed will raise intrest rates this year. Any shrinkage should be in the social programs instituted since the 1970 Constitution made the current pension formula law.
David said...
SCC, are you familiar with exponential mathematical functions? A 3% perpetual annualized COLA is just such a function. Even the massaged government statistics inform us that the US (and Illinois) are growing economically far below 3% per year, and any sane examination suggests that shrinkage, not growth, is in the cards.
It was plainly stupid to embed such a function into the pension system, and unless someone thinks it's possible to double, triple, or more both income and property taxes to continue to cover this folly, something is going to change whether the black robes believe it or not.
3/12/2015 08:28:00 AM
They can eliminate this compound COLA going forward in a new tier of pensions/retirement plans but not going back.
Why that has not already been done is unknown. Expect a ConCon to do some major surgery to the pension system via major constitutional change starting in 2020.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Sorry, off topic: I have to get this off my chest. I'm in a district full of young officers. My issue is officer safety! I'm seeing young inexperienced officers working with other young officers. They are making traffic stops and street stops. I've been observing their tactics and it makes my stomach turn. Failure to take control of the stop, taking their eyes off the subject, sloppy pat-downs, getting numerous subjects out of the car at the same time, and much more. I help as much as I can, but they seem to think they are doing things correctly. Whoever is teaching tactics in the academy needs to do a better job or more time needs to be spent on this. I am worried about the anti-police atmosphere we are in, combined with sloppy tactics, could result in tragedy. Please spent more time on this in the academy and maybe even push for some week long refresher classes for veterans. This is so important to me, and I hope the right people see this.
3/12/2015 08:13:00 AM
Agreed! What about watching coppers especially young coppers driving and texting,not paying attentive on to surroundings! Been on 28 years retiring this year, never has the trains been so pathetic! The academy needs someone at the top and teachers with some sort of military tactical training! The primadonnas there have no clue!
Anonymous said...
Commander larry Watson was asked @ compstat how the 10 hour days r going and he flat out lied and said everybody loves them and the hours...what a sell out, good luck in 007. I know 6 sgts who want to leave plus a shitload of cops...the 10 hour day must be a done deal thanks flop! coming soon to a district near you!!!
3/11/2015 07:26:00 PM
I bet he likes them! he doesn't have to do them. Just like all the FOP people.
Anonymous said...
Wasn't it Nolan's regime that actually allowed the city to take pension holidays? Whichever FOP board members voted to allow that travesty should be ashamed of themselves.
3/12/2015 02:47:00 AM
I am unaware of any pension holidays allowed on the police pensions during the last 30 years. There was a $30 million debt to the pension fund that was forgiven but we got something for that. We got 2.5% pension credit a year instead of the previous 2%. That allowed us to max out with 29 and a day instead of 32 and a day,
That was a big deal and would have cost us a lot more than $30 million if we had to increase our contributions to cover. That drains the pension system faster with no corresponding increase in income for the fund, either by us or the City.
I hear officers still bitter about that $30 million but compared to what we got for it, it is peanuts. And compared to what the pension fund paid out in increased benefits since then it is insignificant.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Did Anne Burke recuse herself? Shouldn't she, considering her vested interest in her husband's municipal pension(s) and his participation in the decimation of City of Chicago pension funds?
3/12/2015 12:51:00 AM
Ed Burke has millions in his campaign fund. He can quit tomorrow, tell the City to shove the pension (which he won't) and pay income taxes on that campaign money and go buy some more expensive glasses and silk underwear to fart through.
Anonymous said...
In that lawyers defense, unless she's a complete moron, I'm willing to bet that she believes that our pension is owed to us and that she is fighting a losing battle. She took her marching orders like an adult and did the best she could with what she was given.
3/12/2015 12:48:00 AM
She is lawyer for the State of Illinois. If that appointment was made like everything else, she got it because of who she knew or blew and not because she graduated #1 at U of C.
when inflation jumps to 6% that 3% and our current pensions will not provide a middle class life stylye . It happened when jimmie carter was president and could happen again . leave 3% cola but not able to collect until you reach mandatory retirement age .
Cpd moves....Roy to get Riccio spot, Riccio to get Roti spots.....plus more later.
All four democrat judges......asked nothing...4 out of 7.......looks like dems have it and allow pension reform....u heard it here first!
The state of Illinois cannot declare bankruptcy. There is no code in the Federal bankruptcy law to allow States to do that. The city of Chicago cannot declare bankruptcy also that violates State of Illinois bankruptcy law. Sure the state can change the law, but that would open Chicago up to Federal receivership and the books would have to open for the last 30 years. The Federal government has tried to change the law to let states go bankrupt (supported by Jed Bush when Governor) but it never had traction to ever get out of committee. The City of Chicago is not Detroit, we have a plenty of revenue streams in Chicago and not broke.
Keep Praying!
Sorry, off topic: I have to get this off my chest. I'm in a district full of young officers. My issue is officer safety! I'm seeing young inexperienced officers working with other young officers. They are making traffic stops and street stops. I've been observing their tactics and it makes my stomach turn. Failure to take control of the stop, taking their eyes off the subject, sloppy pat-downs, getting numerous subjects out of the car at the same time, and much more. I help as much as I can, but they seem to think they are doing things correctly. Whoever is teaching tactics in the academy needs to do a better job or more time needs to be spent on this. I am worried about the anti-police atmosphere we are in, combined with sloppy tactics, could result in tragedy. Please spent more time on this in the academy and maybe even push for some week long refresher classes for veterans. This is so important to me, and I hope the right people see this.
--------------------------------
I blame the "hiring" waves the City engages, few or no recruits are sent into the academy for months or years then all of sudden they have to do these quick mass hirings with hurried training, including FTO training with two and three recruits to an FTO. I see the van recruits while I am at VRI make obvious mistakes on vehicle stops. But one told me, "I know more than you probably know". So, I leave it alone.
Obama and Holder have spoke and their constituency have heard them loud and clear:
3 reportedly questioned in shooting of 2 cops outside Ferguson police department
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/12/2-police-officers-reported-shot-outside-ferguson-police-department/
Politicians over-promised for delivery in the future, but money that can't be paid, won't be paid. One more Great Recession and it will be over, because taxpayers will revolt.
3/12/2015 08:28:00 AM
Cool. We're good for a few decades then.
Like it or not, the state does not have the money for pensions.
3/12/2015 07:21:00 AM
Let's rephrase that to more accurately reflect the truth shall we?
The state does not have the money to continue granting tax free status to the largest profitable corporations in this state on top of actually PAYING some of the richest corporations a portion of their employee income tax in kick back "incentive" schemes while at the same time paying lawfully obligated and protected obligations to its employees.
Corporate welfare is what is bankrupting states and municipalities, not lawful pension obligations.
I am disgusted at remarks of Chicago filing bankruptcy. We are not Detroit. Detroit did not do the following: 300 million plus for Millennium park, 100 million plus for the new Riverwalk, 90 million plus for bike lanes, 100 million plus for that Ravenswood trail nonsense, 100 plus million for DePaul stadium, 55 million plus for Maggie Daley park, 50 million plus for the bike bridge to Navy Pier, and so on and so on. Bankrupt cities do not have money for unnecessary, non-infrastructure related bullshit. One who wastes money while neglecting contractual financial obligations should be in prison or at least voted out. I am not even going to attempt to total up the money spent on ghetto entitlements. Scumbags who never worked a day in their lives drive better cars, dine at fancier restaurants and wear costlier clothing than hard working contributors to society. The whole system needs a douche.
Anonymous said...
Sorry, off topic: I have to get this off my chest. I'm in a district full of young officers. My issue is officer safety! I'm seeing young inexperienced officers working with other young officers. They are making traffic stops and street stops. I've been observing their tactics and it makes my stomach turn. Failure to take control of the stop, taking their eyes off the subject, sloppy pat-downs, getting numerous subjects out of the car at the same time, and much more. I help as much as I can, but they seem to think they are doing things correctly. Whoever is teaching tactics in the academy needs to do a better job or more time needs to be spent on this. I am worried about the anti-police atmosphere we are in, combined with sloppy tactics, could result in tragedy. Please spent more time on this in the academy and maybe even push for some week long refresher classes for veterans. This is so important to me, and I hope the right people see this.
3/12/2015 08:13:00 AM
I agree 100%. It is not just the young coppers. But even the older ones. All we need to do is use common sense and never become complacent.
Let's be realistic, shall we? Our pension fund is broke. Just visit the pension fund website and look at the basic facts. Just read the following pdf file and look at pages 12-15.
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/PDF/Financials/actuarial/2013_Report.pdf
I guess the only choice we have is to grow old and die. I have money saved up in savings and in deferred comp. But trust me, it is not enough.
"Great analogy from one of the lawyers
The state seeking to avoid fiscal responsibility for the pension crisis they created is like a defendant who killed his parents asking for leniency because he is an orphan."
And then demanding to be given more parents to kill.
The party is almost over - there is no money left and no more to borrow. Put down the Playboy and read the financial pages instead.
It's sad that we even have to think about what the politicians did to the pension. NO ONE IS TO BLAME FOR THE PENSION MESS, BUT POLITICIANS!!! PERIOD! As told to us when we signed the contract with the city for employment as a police officer or fireman, we will pay into the pension every two weeks(mandatory)and in return we will get a pension. We have no say where the money goes or how it was(stolen, borrowed, miss managed)invested. When will the media start asking what kind of pension will the politicians get? How is their pension looking? How is Daley's pension? How is Quinn's? How about the judges? Government miss managed the money just like they always do. They are the only ones to blame. It's time to put the blame where it should be.
We Won boys and girls Florida here I come
Interesting how the scumbag politicians after padding their wallets and their friends wallets now want to cry "help" after they destroyed the pension with borrowing and miss management. How are their pensions I wonder? Anyone in the media want to ask them? How much do they get in retirement? How long do they have to work to get the max pension? Someone please start asking these questions. These are the people that created this mess. Start grilling them. Look into Daley's pensions. What does he get and how many pensions does he collect? The lowley worker had no say in the pension and had nothing to do with the mess! There is only ONE CAUSE. RICH POLITICIANS! PERIOD!
Either way, get ready for western suburb level property taxes. 10,11,12 thousand a year and city level crime and services. Not to mention.your private school tuition.
Anonymous said...
Listening to Bob Thomas hammering the attorney for the state was priceless, he made the whole case for the retirees.
As the man said: " being unprepared may be an emergency on your part, but not my part". 25 years of government financial mismanagement isn't an emergency, it's deliberate
3/12/2015 07:10:00 AM
Exactly! The Fox(politicians)have been quarding the hen house(tax payer money/pension funds etc.)for many years and eating hens and giving their friends and family hens whenever they wanted. Now there are no more hens and they want everyone other themselves to give up their own hens so the politicians can continue to eat at will. The emergency was self inflicted by rich politicians. PERIOD!
Yes, the politicians caused the mess so maybe they(Rauner)cauld come out and take responsibility and say "it's their fault and it's time to pay the bill." Then never let it happen again. There is no one to blame but politicians. Daley, Madigan, Quinn, etc. etc. I wonder....How are their pensions? Just fine I bet.
Then overcrowd them!!👮
The police pensions will be fine as long as WE don't give in. Think about this:
Do the math. 65k a year (75%) for a 20 year retirement is 1.3 million dollars. The city OWES you at least 1.3 million dollars. Don't be stupid, DO NOT agree to give it up, any of it. Isn't that worth fighting for?
And it is guaranteed by the state constitution.
Federal Bankruptcy Court will look at this differently. Just ask City of Detroit retirees about state constitutional pension protections. It's coming to Illinois and Chicago, just a matter time.
It's truly sad that a lawyer, after how many years of school, has to be educated by the Illinois Supreme Court as to the fact that words have meaning, and laws made up of words have meaning, too
Au Contraire, they know it damn well, they just don't care. Their high and mighty devotion to "The Law" as they all try to twist and turn every tortured word and phrase to mean different than it does...they are high priced whores with no conscience. Nothing has done more, nothing, than the filthy legal "profession" to ruin this nation. Don't bother answering with the trite "when you get sued or arrested you will beg for my services" in justification. Because someone has to use a snitch to catch a dope dealer doesn't mean the snitch is good. It just means you need a scumbag that knows the game. Same with lawyers, need an amoral maggot to navigate the corruption. Of course, there are a handful of honest and ethical lawyers, you can probably identify them by their old cars and small houses.
It is too bad that the Pension Genius Trust never invested any pension funds in Apple stock. Walgreens has tripled in the past four years. Old AT&T even pays Five plus percent annual dividend. Oh wait.... The city hasn't paid up their contributions yet have they?
" Looks like good news"- There is no money.
It is all about arithmetic. 3% when the economy is lucky to be growing 2% no matter how much the state raises taxes, it will not make up the difference. Whatever the silly court decides, does not matter. It is mathematics and people can scream about the pols not giving the money, investing it poorly, or whatever. It will come down to numbers.
Hang them all sick of politicians and their constant bullshit.
Cut entitlement programs and use the TIF money. That would solve the problem in two years.
Wasn't it Nolan's regime that actually allowed the city to take pension holidays? Whichever FOP board members voted to allow that travesty should be ashamed of themselves.
No it was Donahue who forgave the Lil Runt for over $25,000,000.00.
Nolans regime gave back the FoP officers pay to the city. That is how they have been able to give themselves such large raises. In the past the officers were paid as Ranked services such as Captain, Lt. Sgt and down. The city use to pay the wages to the officers of the Fop, but Nolan let them off the hook and they immediately gave themselves a raise with the Po's union dues.
"...benefit cuts to public workers were a response to a financial emergency tied to the Great Recession."
Great Recession is over. Everything going great. Ask any of the "house flippers" now advertising their "seminars" like crazy on the radio -- just like back then in the first wave.
What are the fines so far that have been levied against the major banks and brokers for tripping that whole mess off with their BS mortgages? About 80 billion dollars, isn't it?
Lucky the Sergeants Union wasn't able to pull off their theft of everyone's pension! Say what you want about Mike Shields, he got that one right.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
007 really lucked out with your new boss. And in 005 he will be sorely missed."
3/12/2015 12:40:00 AM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This was the first post of the Pension thread.
What is wrong with you?
Don't any of you care that there are real professional people like lawyers and politicians and lobbyists trying their best to stick it in your asses?
The FOP can only do so much, the rest is on you ALL to get involved and to stand up.
Everyone talks so much shit here, but you all fold like children when the real issues hit the board.
The politician's took a HUGE hit today on this.
Now is the time to strike back and put and end to it.
Get out and vote, and get involved in your union!
I would volunteer to serve on the juror that could send crooked politicians to prison.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
Listening to Bob Thomas hammering the attorney for the state was priceless, he made the whole case for the retirees.
As the man said: " being unprepared may be an emergency on your part, but not my part". 25 years of government financial mismanagement isn't an emergency, it's deliberate"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At least SOMEONE is paying attention for you all.
My point is, is that no one is going to do this work for you.
If you all start watching and talking to each other about who is doing what in Springfield, then they have less of a chance of screwing you all.
Keep the heat on your union that this is top priority, then they are bound, by law, to stick to it.
Sheriff David Clarke Jr. warning against Obama's police state
https://vimeo.com/121852900
I don't care if 9.5 has 130 million. He never gets my vote.
Anonymous said...
Here we go again. The taxpayers FUNDED your pensions, the politicians stole it, and now the taxpayers have to DOUBLE FUND your pensions? Since the kid analogies seem to be so effective, let's say you tell your kids you'll take them to Disneyland if they're good all year. Then someone breaks into your house and steals your life's savings. The kids demand Disneyland. Do you raid your grocery and utility money to go to Disneyland? Do you take a second job just to pay for Disneyland? Or do you explain to the kids that, while it's not THEIR fault, it's not YOUR fault either, but you CAN'T go to Disneyland? Of course, if you're a politician, you just go TAKE the money from someone else and go to Disneyland twice.
I get why you're all upset about your pensions. I would be too. But as a taxpayer, it's not MY fault, and I'm not going to foot the bill for the criminal who stole from BOTH of us. Sorry, this is going to be evenly spread. MY money destined for your pension was stolen, that's MY end of the unfortunate bargain. YOU are now going to reap your end of the bargain, namely, the money isn't there. When cops start volunteering their own personal money to reimburse citizens who have suffered losses due to crime, THEN we can start talking about citizens using their own personal money to reimburse cops who have suffered losses due to crime.
You are very much appreciated by this citizen for the tough job you have chosen. I have PAID for you to be reimbursed for doing that job, including all benefits you were to receive for doing that job. I thank you, and would shake your hand. My responsibility in the matter ends there.
3/12/2015 11:30:00 AM
You seem to miss a very simple point in your much too wordy essay.
The City money that should have gone into our pensions went to YOU instead, thus, YOU are merely paying US back for the benefits that you have already reaped. You are not getting double dipped. Your are only paying for your single scoop that you got on credit earlier.
I get why you're all upset about your pensions. I would be too. But as a taxpayer, it's not MY fault, and I'm not going to foot the bill for the criminal who stole from BOTH of us. Sorry, this is going to be evenly spread. MY money destined for your pension was stolen, that's MY end of the unfortunate bargain. YOU are now going to reap your end of the bargain, namely, the money isn't there. When cops start volunteering their own personal money to reimburse citizens who have suffered losses due to crime, THEN we can start talking about citizens using their own personal money to reimburse cops who have suffered losses due to crime.
You are very much appreciated by this citizen for the tough job you have chosen. I have PAID for you to be reimbursed for doing that job, including all benefits you were to receive for doing that job. I thank you, and would shake your hand. My responsibility in the matter ends there.
3/12/2015 11:30:00 AM
Problem is, the taxpayers are also responsible for voting for thieves to represent them. If you endorse the thief, sometimes you have to pony up when your thief steals from you.
And, let's not forget, we police are taxpayers, too, so we will be paying higher taxes and fees and costs like everyone else, so we will be paying triple - once off the top of our paychecks, once all along like every taxpayer, and once 'now'.
Let's hope we'll ALL be more responsible about who we vote into critical offices to represent our interests, in the future.
Did Anne Burke recuse herself? Shouldn't she, considering her vested interest in her husband's municipal pension(s) and his participation in the decimation of City of Chicago pension funds?
3/12/2015 12:51:00 AM
Ed Burke has millions in his campaign fund. He can quit tomorrow, tell the City to shove the pension (which he won't) and pay income taxes on that campaign money and go buy some more expensive glasses and silk underwear to fart through.
3/12/2015 01:19:00 PM
Everything you said is true, but what I posted originally is also true.
Ed's bank account, private island, sexual proclivities or his choice of peanut butter is not the issue.
The issue is State Supreme Court Justice Anne Burke is married to someone who creates a conflict of interest for her in this case and she should recuse herself.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It is all about arithmetic. 3% when the economy is lucky to be growing 2% no matter how much the state raises taxes, it will not make up the difference. Whatever the silly court decides, does not matter. It is mathematics and people can scream about the pols not giving the money, investing it poorly, or whatever. It will come down to numbers.
3/12/2015 08:52:00 PM
Hey, cranky one, there are good years in the market and bad years. Yep, some years do return 2% and some years return 11%. You're conveniently ignoring the good returns in order to terrorize people.
You are very much appreciated by this citizen for the tough job you have chosen. I have PAID for you to be reimbursed for doing that job, including all benefits you were to receive for doing that job. I thank you, and would shake your hand. My responsibility in the matter ends there.
The constitution says different. You will pay
The city will not use bankruptcy to get out of pension obligations. It's only Rahm threatening city employees and retirees. If he were to do that, all the hidden slush funds and other public funds would have to be declared. As another poster said, STICK TOGETHER. This is your future. You young officers, put as much as you can into deferred comp. Save for tomorrow and fight for what's owed you. Do not expect anyone to fight your battles for you. Stand together, Stick together, Fight together.
You are very much appreciated by this citizen for the tough job you have chosen. I have PAID for you to be reimbursed for doing that job, including all benefits you were to receive for doing that job. I thank you, and would shake your hand. My responsibility in the matter ends there.
3/12/2015 11:30:00 AM
That's fine sir, and from this point keep your money and you are on your own! I am now a secretary with a gun to protect myself and only myself. I will be happy to make you a report for what happened to you, but remember it was not my fault!
Those evil police officers, and firefighters need to be stopped. It doesn't matter how much education or training they have...these people need to lose their pensions. It serves them right for trading their time and service while expecting to keep their promised pension.
I guess what you are doing makes sense...make them evil so it's easier to steal from them.
Politicians=criminals, should ALL be hung. Pieces of shit!!!!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Federal Bankruptcy Court will look at this differently. Just ask City of Detroit retirees about state constitutional pension protections. It's coming to Illinois and Chicago, just a matter time.
3/12/2015 07:59:00 PM
Go fuck yourself! Move to fucking Detroit if you want it like that here jaggoff! Why wait? Just fucking leave asshole!
Union reps bargained with politician reps over deferred compensation (Pensions). They agreed on platinum-level future earnings based on delusional annual 7-8% compounded returns calculations with an exponential COLA built in.
Politicians reneged on the deal year after year.
Who is responsible, the voters (half of whom aren't taxpayers) who returned the liars to office year after year, or the public employees who returned their union reps to the table year after year, and kept working day after day with visions of deferred compensation sugar plums dancing in their heads?
You work for what's in your paycheck. Everything else is an IOU, and IOU's from politicians are IOU's from known, inveterate liars.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me year after year after year after year........
In the near future many City type jobs will be privatized.
Garbage
Park district will be sold and privatized.
snow removal
police desk officers(aka 311)
The hire for these gig will have no benefits and crappy pay.
The unions will let these thing happen to save the pensions.
"Here we go again. The taxpayers FUNDED your pensions, the politicians stole it, and now the taxpayers have to DOUBLE FUND your pensions? Since the kid analogies seem to be so effective, let's say you tell your kids you'll take them to Disneyland if they're good all year. Then someone breaks into your house and steals your life's savings. The kids demand Disneyland. Do you raid your grocery and utility money to go to Disneyland? Do you take a second job just to pay for Disneyland? Or do you explain to the kids that, while it's not THEIR fault, it's not YOUR fault either, but you CAN'T go to Disneyland? Of course, if you're a politician, you just go TAKE the money from someone else and go to Disneyland twice.
I get why you're all upset about your pensions. I would be too. But as a taxpayer, it's not MY fault, and I'm not going to foot the bill for the criminal who stole from BOTH of us. Sorry, this is going to be evenly spread. MY money destined for your pension was stolen, that's MY end of the unfortunate bargain. YOU are now going to reap your end of the bargain, namely, the money isn't there. When cops start volunteering their own personal money to reimburse citizens who have suffered losses due to crime, THEN we can start talking about citizens using their own personal money to reimburse cops who have suffered losses due to crime.
You are very much appreciated by this citizen for the tough job you have chosen. I have PAID for you to be reimbursed for doing that job, including all benefits you were to receive for doing that job. I thank you, and would shake your hand. My responsibility in the matter ends there."
We are not asking you to pay anything more. They have the money in the tiff funds and they have the money in these so called projects they are doing. All they have to do is just pay into it and they are refusing. These are the the leaders YOU voted into office.
Now, they are pitting the taxpayer against police and fire stating that the potential property tax increase is because the greedy police/fire pension fund; Divide and conquer. You chose to live in this state. You chose these leaders. You reap the benefits everyday of my labor everyday. We are not asking you for more. You have not paid us anything. You're leaders are mismanaging your money and want to point the finger. YOU are mistaken when you say you responsibility ends there. We all have a shared responsibility. We need to vote for the right leaders who won't try to screw the both of us. Now go vote for Rahm (sarcasm)
For what it's worth, my wife's a teacher, and everyone knows the TRS is the most underfunded public pension in the USA (Chicago has a separate, better-funded one, go figure.)
When I look at the phenomenal, delusional annual payments based on the amount of her contributions, I can only marvel. In the private sector, I'd have to sock away a couple million dollars to buy an annuity promising that kind of return.
Neither unions nor government entities bargained in good faith on any of this. It was all a Ponzi, where those retiring sooner get paid handsomely and those paying into the system for a lifetime get SHAFTED if the hand grenade detonates right before they retire.
For 40 years people believed in these fantasies, building castles in the sky and then MOVING INTO THEM. The next 2007-2009 bust will make that one look like Little League (not Jackie Robinson, either) and the borrowing/over-promising binge of the last 40 years will go FULL POSEIDON, without the adventure.
How about the City unions that gave away some of their pension benefits? They must be feeling MIGHTY STUPID right about now. And, while on the subject of stooopid, does anyone remember the lawyer for the sergeants union that tried to engineer the deal to give back pension benefits for ALL working and retired officers? Anyone? Well, in case you forgot, ask Disability Dean who he is, because that lawyer has been back on the FOP gravy train since little dean was elected. Birds of a feather, and all that.
You are an idiot
3/12/2015 08:13:00 AM
Agreed! What about watching coppers especially young coppers driving and texting,not paying attentive on to surroundings! Been on 28 years retiring this year, never has the trains been so pathetic! The academy needs someone at the top and teachers with some sort of military tactical training! The primadonnas there have no clue!
Military traing?!?! We need more stupid looking MOLLY VESTS!!! This isn't the military fella's. Im sure you wasted a ton of money of stupid 5.11 tactical flashlights and other shit you're never gonna use. VINS/DIN and something to write on.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Lucky the Sergeants Union wasn't able to pull off their theft of everyone's pension! Say what you want about Mike Shields, he got that one right.
3/12/2015 10:55:00 PM
------------------------------------------
Shields didn't do shit. The Sgts Union voted the contract down, I believe it was about 90%-10%.
We didn't need shields to tell us it was a shitty deal!
Anonymous said...
Lucky the Sergeants Union wasn't able to pull off their theft of everyone's pension! Say what you want about Mike Shields, he got that one right.
3/12/2015 10:55:00 PM
Uh don't blame the sergeants union-blame Irish merit sellout Sgt. Jim Ade. And I helped stick it right back in his half-witted Hibernian ass!
Anonymous said...
Federal Bankruptcy Court will look at this differently. Just ask City of Detroit retirees about state constitutional pension protections. It's coming to Illinois and Chicago, just a matter time.
3/12/2015 07:59:00 PM
Police in Detroit didnt get hurt except for the COLA but we basically lost that for any guys retiring in the last few years. Dont think the state extended the year of birth past 1955
I am unaware of any pension holidays allowed on the police pensions during the last 30 years. There was a $30 million debt to the pension fund that was forgiven but we got something for that. We got 2.5% pension credit a year instead of the previous 2%. That allowed us to max out with 29 and a day instead of 32 and a day,
That was a big deal and would have cost us a lot more than $30 million if we had to increase our contributions to cover. That drains the pension system faster with no corresponding increase in income for the fund, either by us or the City.
I hear officers still bitter about that $30 million but compared to what we got for it, it is peanuts. And compared to what the pension fund paid out in increased benefits since then it is insignificant.
Very enlightning. Guess there are two sides to every story
Let's be realistic, shall we? Our pension fund is broke. Just visit the pension fund website and look at the basic facts. Just read the following pdf file and look at pages 12-15.
http://www.chipabf.org/ChicagoPolicePension/PDF/Financials/actuarial/2013_Report.pdf
3 billion dollars is not broke
Sorry, off topic: I have to get this off my chest. I'm in a district full of young officers. My issue is officer safety! I'm seeing young inexperienced officers working with other young officers. They are making traffic stops and street stops. I've been observing their tactics and it makes my stomach turn. Failure to take control of the stop, taking their eyes off the subject, sloppy pat-downs, getting numerous subjects out of the car at the same time, and much more. I help as much as I can, but they seem to think they are doing things correctly. Whoever is teaching tactics in the academy needs to do a better job or more time needs to be spent on this. I am worried about the anti-police atmosphere we are in, combined with sloppy tactics, could result in tragedy. Please spent more time on this in the academy and maybe even push for some week long refresher classes for veterans. This is so important to me, and I hope the right people see this
Not sure I agree with you. Retired guy here and when I was working we had no FTO,you went directly to the districts and spent a short time with a veteran. Most young guys were paired up with another young po after a short period of time because the veterans didnt really want to work with you or get split up from their veteran partner.
As far as the academy goes, you can teach only so much,then you have to learn on the street.
You can teach,po's have to learn. Think about it if everyone learned the same the whole class would get 100 on the test.
I saw some po's come out of the academy not knowing much and in 5 years, 10 years and 15 years they still didnt know much.
Be honest we have all seen them
Hey, cranky one, there are good years in the market and bad years. Yep, some years do return 2% and some years return 11%. You're conveniently ignoring the good returns in order to terrorize people.
3/13/2015 01:37:00 AM
Couldn't have said it better. Plus the pension fund is limited in the types of investments it can make. They cannot totally invest in the stock market because they have monthly obligations to pay,our pensions. Like in 2008 when the market lost almost 40%. Pension can't take that hit while paying out pensions. Its not like you or I not selling until stocks rise in a few years. Also a fact people dont understand is when the market drops a certain % it takes more than an increase of the same % to be equal
Say you have 100,000 and in 2008 it drops 40% you now have 60,000 In 2009 it goes up 40% so 40% of your 60,000 is 24,000 Now add the 24,000 plus the 60,000 and you have 84,000 not your original 100,000.
3/13/2015 07:44:00 AM
Blogger David said...
For what it's worth, my wife's a teacher, and everyone knows the TRS is the most underfunded public pension in the USA (Chicago has a separate, better-funded one, go figure.)
When I look at the phenomenal, delusional annual payments based on the amount of her contributions, I can only marvel. In the private sector, I'd have to sock away a couple million dollars to buy an annuity promising that kind of return.
Neither unions nor government entities bargained in good faith on any of this. It was all a Ponzi, where those retiring sooner get paid handsomely and those paying into the system for a lifetime get SHAFTED if the hand grenade detonates right before they retire.
For 40 years people believed in these fantasies, building castles in the sky and then MOVING INTO THEM. The next 2007-2009 bust will make that one look like Little League (not Jackie Robinson, either) and the borrowing/over-promising binge of the last 40 years will go FULL POSEIDON, without the adventure.
3/13/2015 07:44:00 AM
For what it's worth, I don't believe a word you type. You reek of Rahm.
Question: Every business, every residence, every property owner, every working man, woman, from teenage years up, every grocery, every meal, every event ticket, every parking meter, every red light ticket, every parking garage, every gallon of gas , every pack of cigarettes...the list is endless however each generates money in the form of taxes. How much does this really come up to? Where does it all go?
I just cant believe the City/County has this overwhelming debt. Let's see the books!
One last question, why does every taxpayer have to pay, all their lives for someone else's child to go to school-even if your own kids graduated, even if you have no children, even if you attended a Catholic or private school??
I get why you're all upset about your pensions. I would be too. But as a taxpayer, it's not MY fault,
. . . it is if you ever voted for Daley, Madigan &/or Cullerton or Machine aldermen
"Here we go again. The taxpayers FUNDED your pensions, the politicians stole it, and now the taxpayers have to DOUBLE FUND your pensions?.......
YOU did not fund MY pension. You paid taxes. The politicians did not properly manage the revenue they received from the taxes.
How many times did YOU vote for Daley and the rest of the Democratic crooked party?
Daley thought he could keep himself from looking like a jag off by never raising taxes. He left office that way but if he was fiscally responsible he would have raised taxes accordingly instead of trying to look like a prince. He left the city in ruins.
So, you haven't paid for my pension yet. You have skated through decades of no tax increases. Time to pay the piper.
Or I guess you could call your uncle frank next time some scum bag beats the crap out of you.
"That's fine sir, and from this point keep your money and you are on your own! I am now a secretary with a gun to protect myself and only myself. I will be happy to make you a report for what happened to you, but remember it was not my fault!"
Ha ha this is fantastic, sounds like something one of Al Capone's guys would have said. As for who _I_ voted for, _I_ did not vote for these scumbags, and frankly, it doesn't much matter, because they're all basically the same. The BEST answer is, don't accept a pension, don't accept having your money skimmed to go into such a pension. Save your money yourself, in your mattress, in your safe, and take control of your own future. Don't depend on politicians being honest and coming through with what they promised, this will never happen again.
And again, I thank you heartily for the jobs you do. I am not contributing to the need for your jobs, and I am taking control of my own safety because I know it's not your responsibility to personally assure it, but I still very much appreciate you being there, for the element that necessitates it.
To" for you to be reimbursed for doing that job, including all benefits you were to receive for doing that job. I thank you, and would shake your hand. My responsibility in the matter ends there"
Wrong.....elected officials are agents of the taxpayers therefore they represent you. Let's use your Disneyland analogy. Let's say the thief that stole from you was the cable guy.....when it is found he stole from you while installing your cable, the cable company is responsible for the acts of its agent. So the taxpayers will pay for the mistake much as the cable company will pay for its employees mistake. The taxpayers can sue the elected officials to recoup their losses. Good luck with thay
Lets do some math we have thousands of retired coppers some skilled military men,and how many active trained? You take away their hard earned benefit, can you imagine the protests? Ferguson thug protests would look like a punk move to quote holder by punks! Do you think the active officers would try to stop coppers who had their pensions taken by thieves that are elected and their friends in give away,like daleys family vaneko davis that took and lost over 60 MILLION of "our money?" Active coppers would join with the retired what havoc and national/international news it would cause!
You cannot reasonably think rahm couldn't call his friend obama and obama could sign an Emergency order to fund the pensions to keep his hometown flush with pension funding!
David said...
For what it's worth, my wife's a teacher, and everyone knows the TRS is the most underfunded public pension in the USA (Chicago has a separate, better-funded one, go figure.)
When I look at the phenomenal, delusional annual payments based on the amount of her contributions, I can only marvel. In the private sector, I'd have to sock away a couple million dollars to buy an annuity promising that kind of return.
Neither unions nor government entities bargained in good faith on any of this. It was all a Ponzi, where those retiring sooner get paid handsomely and those paying into the system for a lifetime get SHAFTED if the hand grenade detonates right before they retire.
For 40 years people believed in these fantasies, building castles in the sky and then MOVING INTO THEM. The next 2007-2009 bust will make that one look like Little League (not Jackie Robinson, either) and the borrowing/over-promising binge of the last 40 years will go FULL POSEIDON, without the adventure.
3/13/2015 07:44:00 AM
Welllll all anyone can say is a giant FUUUUUCK You delusional brainwashed turd!
You fail to understand, as do many of the unwashed masses, the concept of defined benefit pension, so let me enlighten the ignorant blame masters who suck up the koolaid as it's shoved at them.
A fucking defined benefit pension system was DESIGNED to grant ONLY the government the opportunity to fuck up paying what is owed. Yeah, the LAW granted the G the right to blow off payment as obligated for generations.
On the receiving end, we've litigated the shit out of this law unto which it has been CLEARLY established that the constitution grants only the benefits cannot be diminished while at the same time that same SCOIL has determined that all of our lawsuits FAILED in that we cannot force the state or city to pay what is lawfully owed.
So, while it's all just "ok" that the city and state say a big FUCK YOU to constitutionally protected DEBT while at the same time promising corporate welfare thugs that they're free to operate TAX FREE and in gratuity of the taxpayers of this state and city, while we, the actual fucking TAXPAYERS tell corporate scum and local government a big FUCK YOU, you will NOT be granted the right to siphon taxpayer dollars into the hands of the already rich for no legitimate reason other than to pay back the campaign contributions at taxpayer expense while killing off mandated state and local services while you attempt to blame it all upon those who fucking SERVE this state and city,
To the fucking rats who support bankrupting this city and state because they're too fucking stupid to understand that they're being assfucked into thinking it's the always known and legally obligated debt that's causing the problem I say, go take a fucking look at the fucking rich scumbags of Illinois and Chicago who are sucking the taxes from this city and state with total abandon, because it is THEY who are assfucking this state and government into poverty, not the fucking employees.
Grow the fuck up... smell the fucking bullshit and lies your locall government is foisting upon you you unwashed mass.
I'd be embarrassed to admit to believing the fucking lies this government has foist upon me rather than see the truth of the fucking rich stealing the last of what they can before they fucking bankrupt this state and city.
Wise up dumbfucks.... it's the fucking rich causing the collapse of this country, not the fucking working masses who actually fucking SPEND their money in this economy.
Grow up idiots.
Is that RAHMs troll talking about how he is not on the hook for pension so all firemen,teacher and police officers should pound sand???
Get this KID, if a state can dump pensions then the FEDS can dump social security.
Yet none of the trolls mention politicians pensions at all.
10 years and they steal a nice full pension.
Mayors
alderman
county commissioners
State senators
State Reps
and even Water Reclamation whatever the hell they do...
TIFS
Obama Librarys
Maggy Parks
Bike Lane
Flower planters
River Walks
Wrought iron fences around Parks
But go on tell me about laws and rates of returns stroke off. I'm the guy with an 850 credit score whose house is paid off and sends his kids to college on a scholarship.
Here's the problem.. Those who are actually TAXPAYERS and NOT TAX TAKERS are NOT going to take this lightly.. See when all these politicians OKed contracts the PEOPLE that actually do the paying were not consulted as to the terms. It's the uneducated voter that voted for the politicians (mostly in Chicago which over rides the rest of the state).. Now it will come down to this.. ARE you entitled to get what you are promised.. answer is YES..it was a legal contract.. HOWEVER.. do the people that actually have to pay taxes have to stay in the this state and PAY for them.. answer is NO.. People that ACTUALLY pay taxes did NOT vote for ILLEGAL ALIENS to take over.. driving many TAXPAYERS out of the state..driving down wages.. and raising the cost of all the FREE stuff they have been collecting.. We are already looking at other states to move to should ANY taxes go up.. We had to struggle to pay our own way when the kids were growing up..now that they are gone and it's OUR TIME I will NOT stay in this state while they take all our money to make up for their mistakes.. even the current Governor can take a hike.. IL is NOT the once great state it use to be it's a haven for CORRUPT RICH ELITES and the takers.. Sorry guys.. but ENOUGH..
Either way, get ready for western suburb level property taxes. 10,11,12 thousand a year and city level crime and services. Not to mention.your private school tuition.
3/12/2015 05:48:00 PM
Yea ok.What suburb are you referring to?
3/12/2015 07:59:00 PM
Go fuck yourself! Move to fucking Detroit if you want it like that here jaggoff! Why wait? Just fucking leave asshole!
3/13/2015 07:30:00 AM
WHY GET SO MAD AT THIS GUY? It is possible that the city will go belly up in a few years. Right now it is tough to do because of state laws but there are movements in Springfield to make it easier. A lot depends on what city hall is able to do in the next few years. Raises for city workers is off the table for a few years. The teachers? Well, they have the people by the throat because they can strike.But, the Board of Education is a separate taxing and governing body. I believe the City schools can go bankrupt on their own which would nullify all contracts and pensions.
Hey retired guy. When you came on, most of the recruits were Vietnam veterans. You know, Marines and paratroopers, guys who knew what they were doing before they were even hired. It's all different today. The city discriminates against veterans now, and makes it difficult for them to get hired.
I am unaware of any pension holidays allowed on the police pensions during the last 30 years. There was a $30 million debt to the pension fund that was forgiven but we got something for that. We got 2.5% pension credit a year instead of the previous 2%. That allowed us to max out with 29 and a day instead of 32 and a day,
11 out of the 22 years Daley was in office the City of Chicago did not pay their share of the CPD pension. The only reason we were given the 29 and a day was so Daley could shring the department throug attrition. He was able to get the higher paid officers to retire sooner and that would alleviate the salaries of the Higher paid PO's. He did not keep up with hiring, but he kept the budgeted amount of po's at 13500. The question is what did Daley do with all that extra money that he budgeted for but did not have to pay to PO's because we have not had 13500 po's since 2001.
It called smoke and mirrors and that is how Chicago politics works. Not an honest politician in this city.
Anonymous said...
We Won fuck the city !
3/12/2015 11:38:00 AM
Moron.
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