9mm Across the Board?
Well, not if you already had a .40 or a .45, but it looks like the Department has moved to only 9mm for all new hires and all striker-fired for new hires. Unless you had a bigger caliber pistol properly on record prior to Monday, you're out of luck.
Check the Admin fax messages for specifics. We think they're still offering transition courses, but only to striker-fired 9mm weapons, nothing else.
Check the Admin fax messages for specifics. We think they're still offering transition courses, but only to striker-fired 9mm weapons, nothing else.
Labels: info for the police
posted by SCC at 12:31 AM
118 Comments:
If it is good enough for the FBI...
According to people on the range all mccaleas doing.
Bogus as all hell
WTF
With modern hollow point ammo there is nothing wrong with the 9mm. For many it is easier to shoot accurately than a .40 or .45. After decades of experimenting with different calibers for duty carry the FBI finally transitioned back to 9mm.
I've had my .45 since 1996 when the Department allowed us to carry it. Never looked back.
9mm=useless round. unless you get real lucky.
the City trying to save money on ammo when they give to you after qualifying . they don't give a shit about your ass in a gunfight. Soon we will all be carrying Daiseys & issued bb gun pellets.
Dean let this one happen too and never any mention to the Safety committee or in the newsletter.
Cuz .40s and .45s are too intimidating and too "overpowered?"
Now... We grudgingly concede that 9mm ammo is better than
It's ever been but we've seen first hand the Department Knee-Jerkery
in the guise of the "9mm Sub-Sonic."
...Still have nightmares regarding beating the bushes/finding/fighting
an asshole wounded by The Police with that wretched stuff.
Or is this some more of the CALEA bullshit that's been bubbling
on the back burner and stinking the joint up?
Or has bean-counterism reared it's ugly head again?
Kind of interesting though...
More shit-heads are getting strapped with .40s and .45s
so...
More CALEA bullshit.
Why don't we all just start wearing the NYPD uniform and call it a day.
New hires have been required to carry a striker-fired Glock 17/19, Springfield XD or Smith & Wesson M&P for quite a while. After probation you *could* upgrade to a .40 or .45 that was "approved". Makes sense though if they try to keep everyone similar. Way too many weapons, calibers, revolvers, striker-fired, etc out there. Many other departments do the same. CPD really seems to be behind on everything.
The nine is fine. It's all about shot placement.
Hey SCC,
I'm not really sure where to post this, but I wanted to reach out to the readers.
If anyone listens to Mancow's current radio show, I'd like to encourage them to stop. For those who maybe missed the show on 22 JUL 15, he went on a 5-10 minute tirade about the Sandra Bland incident. He further went on to say police are just murders and Nazis debt collectors (or something to that accord).
I've always enjoyed his stupid radio show, its been good laugh in the morning. Now since he has chosen to condemn an entire profession over an incident which he has no information I will never listen to him again.
If anyone else is bothered by this, I would encourage you to contact DS Arms or any of his other sponsers and tell them how you feel.
Watch out for your brothers and sisters and stay safe.
9mm plus p is not a bad round, it's all about vital hits. No such thing as a magic bullet or caliber.
The nine millimeter weapon was developed to wound enemy soldiers so that the enemy resources would be exhausted in treating them. Wheel guns kick ASS!
This is only temporary. They ultimately want to go to .22 which provides way less liability for the city.
/sarcasm
As long as they don't bring back that subsonic "don't shoot him too hard" ammo.
In the meantime....
http://thebrigade.com/2015/07/13/u-s-military-adopts-hollow-point-ammunition-7-photos-and-story/
Gee, I remember a shooting where an officer emptied three full mags of 45 with only "one" hit. Maybe if the officer had a 9 he could have controlled the recoil?
I have said it before, the Department is being run by desk jockeys.
It took the Retired FBI goofs to get us carbines and .40 or .45 caliber hand guns.
Now a new set of desk jockeys determine an officer does not need the large bore weapons. Just like the U.S. Goverment did until we went off to the sand box to play with insurgents. And found the need to bring back the 1911. We are not working with NATO rules in Chiraq
Per Admiral Fax, the combination of a 9mm DAO a blue cordura vest cover and exposed tattoos are now allowed.
Just playing "follow the leader." The FBI announced the same thing a couple of days ago, and we all know that the Bureau is never wrong!
The department should have warned us in advance. What BS
The new order; Clear as mud :
http://directives.chicagopolice.org/directives/data/a7a57b38-137ec5db-e6913-7ec6-7ee3ce8cb24a817d.pdf?hl=true
Bad move.
Hmmmm??? Going to 9mm Striker Fired handguns as duty weapons. I *wonder* if this is a McNumbnut's ploy to 'NYPD-ize' the CPD -- all the NYPD Duty Weapons issued are 9mm Glocks. After all, *everyone knows* that there's no Police Dept in the whole wide world that even comes close to McJersey's beloved NYPD. So why not 'help' all the Midwestern hicks with some of that *superior* (ha-ha-ha) New York knowledge .
Now not that there's anything wrong with the 9mm, I have 'a couple' of them too, though not striker fired. And like colors, car makes, and pizza, everyone has a favorite caliber and arguments can be made for the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP.
Lastly, for you guys that have to stick with the 9mm, or switch, I just hope McClueless stops there and doesn't order another NYPD 'Weapon Standard' -- change-out the Trigger Springs:
----- All NYPD Glocks have the 5 1/2 Pound Pull factory trigger spring replaced with springs with an 11 Pound Pull ! In the opinion of many this is the cause of many cases of Officers missing suspects and wounding innocent bystanders. (the NYPD has the worst 'Collateral Damage' record going, and it can't be because the MYPD are all be terrible shots) -----
Stay Safe Officers.
Not a cop but what is striker fired and why would they move to a less lethal weapon?
Oh well, we'll just have to do more with less.
Probably some ammo restriction and a 'balancing test' to go with it.
Could require written statement from the intended target asking permission to be shot at and of course, a formal and prompt apology.
The new 9mm duty rounds hit just as hard as a 45 acp. even the doj is switching feds from 40 to 9mm. you get more rounds down range with less felt recoil. emergency room doctors cant tell the difference between a 45 acp or a 9mm wound. Winchester has a great round 124 grain +p, or if you want a hotter round you can get the Winchester 127 grain +p+ round. Shot placement is key. check out this article about the Skokie cop who got into a shooting with his 45 acp. http://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/
Once again, the geniuses in charge have mucked up the firearms order. What is the total order now, 30 - 35 pages? Depending on when you were hired, which weapon you bought and when you bought it and when it was registered and if it was lost or not. Then the Tier 2 weapons people, and tier 3. Which one is this? Tier 4 or 5? What a convoluted mess to find out which weapon is right for you.
All this so they wouldn't ever have to just say screw it and buy 12,000 pistols all the same and give one to everyone and they turn the pistol in when they retire and mandate that pistol and a level III safety holster. Not this horseshit police department! Anyone still toting a junk old Boston leather holster with only a leather strap to keep that flintlock secure?
I know four officers who died because of crap holsters on CPD. A lousy $130 to buy a good security holster and they didn't and they are dead. Or, the City could mandate it for everyone, not just new hires, and maybe they would save a life. Rather than buy 12,000 holsters the City pays at least 4 Line of Duty benefits out plus funerals etc. Typical CPD. Spend a buck, plus deaths, just to save a nickel.
GM is less and less motivating every day.
Heard the mancow show yesterday too. He's a goof.
Anyone remember the old 911 emergency unit? They used to be 2nd floor at 11th state. Not sure if it's still around these days
Does anyone remember the North Hollywood Shootout in LA back in '96? Do you remember what the LAPD did afterwards? They quickly approved the .45 and the carbines for patrol. All it takes is for a "whack" job here in Chicago to do harm and that order will be rescinded.
The less recoil a gun has the more shots on target you will get,I carry a 9mm on duty but but carry a Glock 45 off duty,love that little Canon.
Until the day 9mm ammo can generate 600+ lbs of muzzle
energy like hot .40s and .45s with five inch pipes, the new gun/ammo
order is just a quick piss in Shit Creek and just as meaningful.
My S&W 686 38 did just fine:The one time I had to fire it other than at the range.
Well ladies & gentlemen - now the real CALEA CRAP begins...
Yes, this is another "standard" that we must follow in order to add yet another emblem to our squad car and a fancy diploma style certificate on McSreetlight's wall.
And CALEA should give a duplicate diploma for DEANO to proudly display. Hell, i 'll even pay for a set of emblems to put on his leased Lincoln Continental. But i won't pay my retired dues this fall. i am getting old & watching a dept that was once a real agency become decimated by Shortshanks, J-Fled, McMoron, Rahmulus,& FLOP. Guess it's all downhill from here.
Stay safe to those who still must endure. And Boycott Mancow @ 97.9 FM.
I like my 9mm..watched my partner kill a guy with his 9mm..but we should be able to carry an gun we went..except revolvers..only old school guys should be allowed to carry those
It's a good move, depending on what kind of 9mm ammo they issue you. A +p hollowpoint would be my choice. It is more lethal, with less recoil, and doesn't penetrate walls as well as ball ammo. Hence, higher lethality w/ less collateral damage. You can also fit more of them in a clip, giving you more chances to hit dude.
Your leadership is astonishingly bad. If I were structuring your program, you'd all have standard equipment supplied by the department, and a regular training protocol with periodic requalification tests. Zero training and making you buy your own gun is fucking amateur hour, and your brass and the city should be ashamed. They could have trained you for 20 years with the Maggie Daley park money. Rahm could have sold it as a safety issue. Saving the children and all that shit.
If I chose your equipment, I don't think I'd choose a Glock. Their accuracy and trigger aren't professional grade in my opinion, and in a situation where collateral damage needs to be avoided, there are better choices.
I'd probably go with a Sig P226 or P229, the ammo I mentioned above, and a carefully chosen holster of the appropriate level.
So let the gangbangers use 45's. They can't shoot worth a crap with a 22, 32, or 380.
Striker fired is more accurate because of trigger pull.
six with a .38, no need for a malfunction drill
Next up BB guns. Reminds me of the exchange in Vacation:
What are you trying to pull, Clark?
What?
That's a BB-gun. Are you kidding?
This is a Magnum-PI.
That's an old wives tale Clark.
It couldn't even break the skin.
Yeah it could, yeah it could. it could break the skin and start a very ugly infection.
The service pistol is on its way out. Following the lead of "community activists," all officers will be issued with bullhorns, so as to be able to conduct shatteringly loud, metallic discussions.
The lawsuits against the city for "fright" and "hearing damage" will begin to pour in...
The military has the ridiculous notion that all weapons ought to be the same, same pistol, same basic rifle etc. Anyone can shoot a weapon they pick up off the ground or use someone else's magazines in a pinch. Not here. Revolvers and automatics, semi auto across many different manufacturers, single stack or double stack. Different calibers. The chances of using your partners magazines here are slim unless you specifically coordinate with your partner or team. You have a .40 cal, partner has a 9mm, you run out of ammo all you can do is throw the thing at someone and pull out your edged weapon. You all carry a good and sharp and lethal edged weapon, right? You know, last resort save your life shit. And you do practice with it, right? It is only your life, what the hell.
Anonymous said...
As long as they don't bring back that subsonic "don't shoot him too hard" ammo.
7/23/2015 07:10:00 AM
If they give us the subsonic crap they need to also supply the suppressor that goes with it.
Hey, Zero Dark Thirty stuff, Phhhht, phhhht. You don't frighten the children that way.
So my phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range is out?
45's are too scary.... Obama and Rahm, wanna disarm the police
Back Sir.
If I'm going to shoot you from 5 feet away with one shot, guaranteed hit, which would you rather be shot with? Odds are you choose 9mm. Pretty much ends the debate. I'll keep my 45.
It's to bring us in compliance with the. Vienna Convention and United Nations suggested best practices. I really think it's a good thing.
They are also going to introduce culturally relevant policing and how to de-escalate potentially volatile situations with verbal jujitsu, deep empathy, and politically correct analysis.
Ricky E. Beat Triple Threes
New order came out. All weapons getting replaced with slingshots. Less reliability for city
If the 9mm is good enough for the Navy SEALS, then it is good enough for me.
I'd take a Berretta F92 over a striker-fired firearm any day. How many of the CPD accidental discharges have involved striker-fired firearms? Cocked and locked for me!
Anonymous said...
I've had my .45 since 1996 when the Department allowed us to carry it. Never looked back.
7/23/2015 01:03:00 AM
I had a .45 in 1986.Never looked back either.
COLT .357 Python! Kept me alive for over 30 years and several police involved shooting incidents. Took a few days off for having chambered the .357 round, but Im still alive and still on the job. BEST round in the world for municipal police work. Can't speak for our troopers out in the boondocks.
>>>Anonymous Anonymous said...
Gee, I remember a shooting where an officer emptied three full mags of 45 with only "one" hit. Maybe if the officer had a 9 he could have controlled the recoil?
7/23/2015 07:23:00 AM<<<
From the Revolver Police, who can still put them in the 10 Ring...
And if he would have had three high capacity 9mm mags he could have sprayed 43 shots with one hit.
What Wyatt Earp said is as true today as when he said it over a hundred years ago. "In a gun fight... You need to take your time in a hurry... Fast is fine but accuracy is final. You must learn to be slow in a hurry."
Is NYPD all 9mm ?
Remember the Morgan case, Quinn just released him. Shot how many times with 9mm and lived and unrepentant about emptying his Glock at four officers.
My .38 revolver works just fine thanks.
.If it is good enough for the FBI...
7/23/2015 12:33:00 AM
Few FBI agents I have met would last more than one minute on a good old drunken west side domestic so who gives a fuck what gun is good enough for a bunch of lawyers, accountants, and (he he) former school teachers. Frank Pape, Big John and The Rib, and a slew of Police Medal awardees did just fine with a revolver.
Can I Qualify with my Red Ryder BB gun? This was I wont kill any body.
"Rather than buy 12,000 holsters the City pays at least 4 Line of Duty benefits out plus funerals etc. Typical CPD. Spend a buck, plus deaths, just to save a nickel.
7/23/2015 11:05:00 AM"
But then the Runt would have had only Kevin to blubber about, Crocodile tears for a Dead PO
made him appear more human.
All I want to know is are they finally going to pay me to stop carrying my .38?
Serious martial arts should be a part of police training. Theres a picture from the nato summit of an officer abput to punch a guy. Anyone that knows jack about martial arts would tee off on that guys face the way he swung back like that. Could prevent some scary situations.
Been "Grandfathered" in for ever Still carry a 45 Primary and back-up. Been down that road 3 times and thank God I had them and learned how to shoot them under stress............. I am still here working and taking care of mine , they are not......
What goof decided that we all should have 9mm. Oh Gary signed his name to the order. Freakin great!!!!!
It probably has something to do with the prices of ammo. 9mm is the cheapest next to. 22 long rifle.
I'm sick of the shot placement Argument . Shot placement goes without saying. But if you hit you mark would you rather make a bigger hole & dump more energy. Some of us can "control" the recoil no problem. To me it's a non issue.
Wise gave us guns and Gary is taking guns away. This must be his new strategy to get guns off the street.
Bad move.
7/23/2015 09:15:00 AM
And...
Blogger Cuthbert J. Twillie said...
"Hmmmm??? Going to 9mm Striker Fired handguns as duty weapons. I *wonder* if this is a McNumbnut's ploy to 'NYPD-ize' the CPD -- all the NYPD Duty Weapons issued are 9mm Glocks. After all, *everyone knows* that there's no Police Dept in the whole wide world that even comes close to McJersey's beloved NYPD. So why not 'help' all the Midwestern hicks with some of that *superior* (ha-ha-ha) New York knowledge ..."
Plus...
"Now not that there's anything wrong with the 9mm, I have 'a couple' of them too, though not striker fired. And like colors, car makes, and pizza, everyone has a favorite caliber and arguments can be made for the 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP."
This right HERE.
"Lastly, for you guys that have to stick with the 9mm, or switch, I just hope McClueless stops there and doesn't order another NYPD 'Weapon Standard' -- change-out the Trigger Springs
----- All NYPD Glocks have the 5 1/2 Pound Pull factory trigger spring replaced with springs with an 11 Pound Pull ! In the opinion of many this is the cause of many cases of Officers missing suspects and wounding innocent bystanders. (the NYPD has the worst 'Collateral Damage' record going, and it can't be because the MYPD are all be terrible shots) -----
"Stay Safe Officers."
7/23/2015 09:35:00 AM
Thank You
Mistuh Twillie and previous anonymous poster.
Everybody who wades around in Chicago's bloody shit-mud SHOULD read up on
G-Mac's beloved NY2 trigger for Glock pistols...
They were NOT implemented with officer survival of lethal street encounters in mind.
Not with an 11 POUND TRIGGER PULL they ain't...
Needlessly heavy trigger pull as an appeasement to the liability nannies
who NEVER had to put the front sight on an asshole with a gun.
"The faster you finish the gunfight, the less shot you'll be..."
As an aside...
How many of you still practice your draw stroke?
How many of you practice doubles and triples on multiple targets
from the draw?
Do you have a place where you can go to "shoot like you mean it?"
We avidly avoid ANY range that has "NO RAPID FIRE!" signs hanging
on the walls.
Also...
How many of you do hand strengthening exercises?
Policemen are supposed to have a bone-crushing grip anyway.
Grip strength is another "tool" in your toolbox so why not develop it?
>Ol' boy/gurl crying and breaking wind while writhing on the ground
as you demonstrate complete and total mastery over that ass<
Whoops...
We're being mean, brutal and hateful again, aren't we...
Hardly any ballistic difference today with modern ammo in calibers 9mm, 40, and 45. Use Federal HST 9mm or Speer gold dots and you'll be fine. Shot placement is key.
All of us know that handguns are actually lousy choices when it comes to killing a human. Look how often the gang members survive with gunshot wounds to the chest. The human body is actually very resilient. Rifles, on the other hand, almost always kill with a chest shot.
Will they still have ammo for annual qualification for my revolver?
Hey, pistol expert, they aren't "clips", unless we're using a firearm like an M1 Garand. They're "magazines". You really damage your credibility when you don't even know the correct names for equipment.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I like my 9mm..watched my partner kill a guy with his 9mm..but we should be able to carry an gun we went..except revolvers..only old school guys should be allowed to carry those
7/23/2015 04:22:00 PM
You "watched" as your partner took care of business?
O_o? o_o? o_O?
Mmm-Okay...
Thanks for your learned and insightful insight
into who should carry what.
It's not a bad idea to have uniformity in the department in regards to firearms and ammo. In my opinion, I think you should shoot with whatever caliber you're more accurate/comfortable with. I'll stick with my .45 though. Go to the range and shoot as often as you can brothers and sisters!
I carry Winchester +P+ 9's in my Glock 17. In my duty weapon, which is an M&P 45, it's Winchester Ranger or the 180 gr Speer +P. My backup is a Glock 27, with Corbons. If they'd let me, I'd carry a Python or a 586 with 357's. I don't subscribe to spray and pray. The 357 magnum is THE proven 1 shot stop handgun round. .38 Special +P is too under powered. Of course, if the girls close their eyes when they shoot, ya just might miss the target...
I suppose the new 9mm ammunition is better than ever, but a 45 makes a better hole to bleed out of. This ammo nonsense is Ford, Chevy and Mopar, or Lancer vs STI all over again. Everyone has a reason they like their favorite round.
7/23/2015 08:39:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
.If it is good enough for the FBI...
7/23/2015 12:33:00 AM
Few FBI agents I have met would last more than one minute on a good old drunken west side domestic so who gives a fuck what gun is good enough for a bunch of lawyers, accountants, and (he he) former school teachers. Frank Pape, Big John and The Rib, and a slew of Police Medal awardees did just fine with a revolver.
7/23/2015 08:46:00 PM
Frank Pape was rumored to keep a 7in. Colt New Service in
either .44-40 or .45 Colt in the glove box for extra hard-head m/fers.
Likely loaded with 240 to 260 grain hard cast, sharp-shouldered Keith slugs in the
1000 to 1200 FPS class.
Keith slugs are designed to penetrate, break heavy bones/joints like
shoulders/hips and exit. Good for busting holes in vehicle body panels too.
There is nothing like the report of a stout loaded big bore revolver.
It IS attention getting.
Many anecdotal reports of Mistuh Bad-Guy frozen-in-place while staring
down the bore of those big old Colts and Smith & Wessons...
"I saw Hell and The Devil," and similar such.
These modern day urban death worshippers glory in the possibility of being
sent to their doom at the hands of The Police.
Society is done a great service when Policemen oblige them...
Todays round technology have made the differences between the different calibers insignificant. At this point 9mm are the better choice. Higher round capacity, much better accuracy round after round. Do some research and see for yourself.
Unbelievable!! NUTS! Why not let everyone have. 45 autos??
7/23/2015 08:39:00 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
.If it is good enough for the FBI...
7/23/2015 12:33:00 AM
Few FBI agents I have met would last more than one minute on a good old drunken west side domestic so who gives a fuck what gun is good enough for a bunch of lawyers, accountants, and (he he) former school teachers. Frank Pape, Big John and The Rib, and a slew of Police Medal awardees did just fine with a revolver.
7/23/2015 08:46:00 PM
Feebs lasting 60 seconds in a Memphis-Town domestic gone bad?
Surely you give waaayyyy too much credit.
They'll be down the street in air conditioned comfort
WATCHING YOU fight for your life.
>You and your partner tumbling down the front stairs with many m/fers hanging off
you scratching, clawing, biting and snatching at your pistols
trying to get to them and use them on YOU!<
"The Officers use of force was unreasonable..."
Remember.
Feebs don't do eyeball to eyeball brawling
like Policemen do.
I hope they give you hollow points. NATO, The UN and some big city departments don't allow them.
I think a big reason that so few gang shootings are fatal is that they are too cheap for hollow points.
What about squirt guns?! That might be next....
6:44 pm?
I saw the order replacing firearms with slingshots. Have you got addendum 1 yet? It specifies that the only acceptable loads for the new weapon is gumdrops.
"9mm=useless round. unless you get real lucky."
Idiots!
Learn to shoot, stop crying and shut up!
The only difference between a 9 and a 45 is just 1/10 of an inch
I came on in 1990. Remember the OLD General Order?
If you came on before 1954 you could still carry a Nickel Plated revolver.
Wow.
Back in the revolver days I carried a .44 S&W as a 2nd gun. When they approved the .45 auto it allowed me to transition to that as a duty gun with a 5-shot snub as a concealed 2nd gun. I haven't looked back and still like the .45 (I do practice a lot, and I believe that's the key no matter what caliber is carried.)If the dept. wants me to carry a 9mm only then issue it to me. Otherwise I go with the thoughts of a Texas Ranger who was asked why all the Rangers carried .45 semi-autos. His reply, "Because they don't make a .46 semi-auto."
Anonymous Anonymous said...
It probably has something to do with the prices of ammo. 9mm is the cheapest next to. 22 long rifle.
7/23/2015 09:52:00 PM
You mustn't have shopped for ammo lately
Hey SCC,
I'm not really sure where to post this, but I wanted to reach out to the readers.
If anyone listens to Mancow's current radio show, I'd like to encourage them to stop. For those who maybe missed the show on 22 JUL 15, he went on a 5-10 minute tirade about the Sandra Bland incident. He further went on to say police are just murders and Nazis debt collectors (or something to that accord).
I've always enjoyed his stupid radio show, its been good laugh in the morning. Now since he has chosen to condemn an entire profession over an incident which he has no information I will never listen to him again.
If anyone else is bothered by this, I would encourage you to contact DS Arms or any of his other sponsers and tell them how you feel.
Watch out for your brothers and sisters and stay safe.
7/23/2015 06:02:00 AM
Quite recently, after a recent police bashing in the news, Mancow blasted the police saying the Chicago police were all a bunch of barbaric thieves. Couldn't believe what I was hearing. I also encouraged people not tune into this liberal piece of crap, to wit I got, "no, he's on our side." Yeah, ok, you keep believing that. Turn this piece of shit off and stop buying and reading any newspaper in this city and encourage your families to do the same. They hurt us everyday with their lies, lets hurt them in the pockets.
I'd take a Berretta F92 over a striker-fired firearm any day. How many of the CPD accidental discharges have involved striker-fired firearms? Cocked and locked for me!
7/23/2015 07:19:00 PM
Yup. Couple in my district I can think of. I won't touch a striker fired pistol. Dropping it, putting it back in the holster. BANG! Oops! Shit - is that camera working? Uh Oh!
Make sure to get good 9mm ammo.. 124 - 147g +p Gold Dot or HST are excellent rounds.. They have good penetration and expand very well. Also go shoot your freakin gun more than once a year. It's embarrassing having seen tac officers fail their qual. Second, the departments should require all vehicles to be equipped with min of one rifle. Would not be bad idea to bring back the shotgunt.
Who was on the armory committee when this was voted?
Who voted yes and who voted no???
We all need carbine training.
I believe ISP was one of the early agencies to go 9mm, in the early 80's, Beretta. Their duty load was the 115 grain +p+...super hot and excellent expansion, something CPD never understood. Hollow points expand more with higher velocity not less (as in CPD 147 gr. subsonic.) When I went to 9mm in early 80's I carried 124 gr +p. I'd rather take a day or two than rely on that weak 147gr.
Do G.O.'s still mandate 147 gr for all members with 9 mm now?
06:35am. Haven't you heard? Size does matter. Lol!
I'm sick of the shot placement Argument . Shot placement goes without saying. But if you hit you mark would you rather make a bigger hole & dump more energy. Some of us can "control" the recoil no problem. To me it's a non issue.
7/23/2015 10:15:00 PM
A better question might be, would I rather get shot once in the chest with a 45 or 2-3 times with a 9mm? The answer is obvious. Controlling the recoil is one thing - not allowing it to affect your accuracy on several shots fired in rapid succession is another.
9mm rounds are now so good that there is pretty much no observable difference between someone shot with a good 9mm round and one shot with a 45. Now, take into account that you can fit twice as many 9mm rounds in a clip, there's less recoil which makes target reacquisition quicker, and less overpenetration of barriers. This equals being able to score more hits on a target in the same amount of time with less collateral damage.
The only time a 9mm would be a little less useful would be if the bad guy takes cover behind a car door or something, but that's why the 357 mag was invented - 45 doesn't really cut it either when it comes to defeating light cover.
I'd take a Berretta F92 over a striker-fired firearm any day. How many of the CPD accidental discharges have involved striker-fired firearms? Cocked and locked for me!
7/23/2015 07:19:00 PM
Yup. Couple in my district I can think of. I won't touch a striker fired pistol. Dropping it, putting it back in the holster. BANG! Oops! Shit - is that camera working? Uh Oh!
Striker fire pistols are as safe as cfs pistols, just a lighter trigger pull. So follow a very basic rule. Keep your finger (and everything else) off the trigger until you're ready to shoot. Perhaps more range time and practice with your weapon besides the yearly quantification would help them.
.45ACP =vs= 9mm?
Why throw pebbles when you can throw rocks, right Scotty?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I carry Winchester +P+ 9's in my Glock 17. In my duty weapon, which is an M&P 45, it's Winchester Ranger or the 180 gr Speer +P. My backup is a Glock 27, with Corbons. If they'd let me, I'd carry a Python or a 586 with 357's. I don't subscribe to spray and pray. The 357 magnum is THE proven 1 shot stop handgun round. .38 Special +P is too under powered. Of course, if the girls close their eyes when they shoot, ya just might miss the target...
I suppose the new 9mm ammunition is better than ever, but a 45 makes a better hole to bleed out of. This ammo nonsense is Ford, Chevy and Mopar, or Lancer vs STI all over again. Everyone has a reason they like their favorite round.
7/24/2015 01:06:00 AM
The .38 Special +P IS a very adequate manstopper when loaded
with the 158 grain lead gas-checked hollowpoint and driven at 1000+ FPS.
Velocity is the key.
The ammo is out there if you know where to look.
Yup. Couple in my district I can think of. I won't touch a striker fired pistol. Dropping it, putting it back in the holster. BANG! Oops! Shit - is that camera working? Uh Oh!
7/24/2015 11:11:00 AM
You're full of shit or stupid. Or both. The gun doesn't go off unless someone's finger is on the trigger In the middle of the trigger is the lock, both need to be depressed to fire. Dropping the weapon? Nonsense.
Recall Officer Jay Brunkella, 024th District? Killed when his partner's model 1911 Colt .45 cal discharged a round into his chest. Tac guy, no vest. 1986. Partner was using the pistol as a bludgeon, not cocked and locked, just cocked and ready to go boom.
At the Burger King on Lawrence a little west of Western another tact officer's model 1911 .45 cal discharged, killing an offender with a .45 cal round under his nose. No great loss but it didn't need to happen. Lawsuit, investigation, I don't know if the officer took any time. He eventually made Lt in 023.
No one on CPD can now carry a semi-auto single action pistol of any caliber because of these and other shooting deaths.
I'll take a striker fired pistol. You still need to train and practice much more than the average CPD officer is accustomed to.
Cocked and locked is for people who need that type of gun and it requires much training to be deadly when you need deadly and safe when you need safe.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
I came on in 1990. Remember the OLD General Order?
If you came on before 1954 you could still carry a Nickel Plated revolver.
Wow.
7/24/2015 08:32:00 AM"
Leo Schmitz carried a nickel plated 45. and some other Dick in old Area 6 carried a nickel plated 45 as well. Sure as hell know they didnt come in 1953.
I like my Glock .357 Sig. A 9mm on steroids...and how a 9mm should be...
"Frank Pape was rumored to keep a 7in. Colt New Service in
either .44-40 or .45 Colt in the glove box for extra hard-head m/fers.
"Likely loaded with 240 to 260 grain hard cast, sharp-shouldered Keith slugs in the
1000 to 1200 FPS class.
"Keith slugs are designed to penetrate, break heavy bones/joints like
shoulders/hips and exit. Good for busting holes in vehicle body panels too."
7/24/2015 01:24:00 AM
Any friend of Elmer is a friend of mine.
BCP speaks truth here. Look up "Thompson/LaGarde tests." Done in 1904.
"The Board was of the opinion that a bullet, which will have the shock effect and stopping effect at short ranges necessary for a military pistol or revolver, should have a caliber not less than .45. ... None of the full-jacketed or metal-patch bullets (all of which were less than cal. . 45) showed the necessary shock effect or stopping power for a service weapon. ...
"The Board reached the conclusion that the only safeguard at close encounters is a well-directed rapid fire from nothing less than a .45-caliber weapon."
"Would not be bad idea to bring back the shotgun."
7/24/2015 12:30:00 PM
Yes, please. Results don't buff out too easy, and safer in urban environment than high-velocity rifles.
Amazing how weapons SHRINK IN YOUR HANDS, like in a bad dream. You got a real problem, an 870 is like a toothpick. "Is this all I got?" Confront some terrible-tempered, sweating, knuckle-cracking, bull-necked maniac -- watch out when the wife is like 95 pounds, hanging in the background wringing her hands at the 57th police visit to the home, and has permanent dark circles around her eyes from constant weeping and sheer daily terror, is he drinking again -- and you will just know. Human version of Cape Buffalo.
As famed writer Robert Ruark entitled one of his books, "Use Enough Gun" -- and with some people, there doesn't seem to be enough, ever.
..and today there are steroids, crank, "bath salts," God knows what.
You will know.
God bless all here. Stay safe.
Oh. Just to help dispel the current crap-in-all-directions and keep a bunch of things clear -- I am white. The "human Cape Buffalo" I just referred to was also white. One of the most frightening people I've encountered. Found myself backing away and gauging exactly where the sternum was and thinking of how tiny 12 ga. deer slugs really are...Jesus. I start shaking a little again every time I remember him.
Bad, bad things out there, my friends. We did not ask for them, and sure don't go looking for them, just have to deal with them as they come.
All I can say is -- don't let the dark side get to you. Smooth sailing, calm waters, peace in your heart, and another blessing upon all, as best as I can give.
For the guy who wrote what's quoted below, fuck off and stick with your micro department. One size fits all does not work with the variety of officers we have. Many smaller departments around Northern IL allow personally-owned guns, because they have bosses that know one size does not work for everyone.
9mm is just fine. The standard in CPD is already a 124gr +p Ranger bonded, with the option of a 115gr or 147gr in either +p or standard, as well as a 124gr standard pressure 9mm. You can keep your overweight Sig, no thanks. I gave up my boat anchor when I traded in my S&W 4506. I'll take a Glock 17, 19, or 26 any day over a bulky Sig Sauer. Thanks for your professional opinion, but unfortunately here at CPD, many officers actually have to use what we carry, not just train with a "professional grade" Sig with a DAK trigger.
" Anonymous Anonymous said...
It's a good move, depending on what kind of 9mm ammo they issue you. A +p hollowpoint would be my choice. It is more lethal, with less recoil, and doesn't penetrate walls as well as ball ammo. Hence, higher lethality w/ less collateral damage. You can also fit more of them in a clip, giving you more chances to hit dude.
Your leadership is astonishingly bad. If I were structuring your program, you'd all have standard equipment supplied by the department, and a regular training protocol with periodic requalification tests. Zero training and making you buy your own gun is fucking amateur hour, and your brass and the city should be ashamed. They could have trained you for 20 years with the Maggie Daley park money. Rahm could have sold it as a safety issue. Saving the children and all that shit.
If I chose your equipment, I don't think I'd choose a Glock. Their accuracy and trigger aren't professional grade in my opinion, and in a situation where collateral damage needs to be avoided, there are better choices.
I'd probably go with a Sig P226 or P229, the ammo I mentioned above, and a carefully chosen holster of the appropriate level."
" Anonymous Anonymous said...
I'd take a Berretta F92 over a striker-fired firearm any day. How many of the CPD accidental discharges have involved striker-fired firearms? Cocked and locked for me!"
"Cocked and locked", really dipshit??? You're not carrying a 1911, so why carry a 92F (the actual name) in that condition? Striker fired guns don't go off if dropped; they discharge when you pull the trigger. That's called user error, lack of training, and lack of common sense. By the way, negligent discharges didn't just start when Striker fired guns came on the scene. When I worked in 021, the locker room had several bullet holes from a variety of handguns.
I hope they give you hollow points. NATO, The UN and some big city departments don't allow them.
I think a big reason that so few gang shootings are fatal is that they are too cheap for hollow points.
>You and your partner tumbling down the front stairs with many m/fers hanging off
you scratching, clawing, biting and snatching at your pistols
trying to get to them and use them on YOU!<
7/24/2015 03:11:00 AM
This is exactly where the One-Pound Confined-Space Fight Stopper came in.
>WHAP<
A real life saver. That's why you can't have one any more.
Life saver on both sides, when you think a minute. Consider. Busted head, elbow, kneecap, bunch of stitches -- like a drunk would notice much 'til next morning anyway -- or administrators prefer 'em dead and full of holes because they have left little alternative.
I guess the latter.
02:40pm, I believe the ISP 9mm weapon in the 80's was the Smith and Wesson Model 39. Any policeman out there who have shot attacking pit bulls or similar dogs with 9mm or .45 can give us their take on which caliber is best?
Who was on the armory committee when this was voted?
Who voted yes and who voted no???
7/24/2015 02:03:00 PM
Who voted!???
Officers should be allowed to carry the gun they are most comfortable and competent with, within reason. All weapons have good and bad points. I will stick with what I came on with, but I think about striker fired weapons, they are more accurate.
Leo Schmitz carried a nickel plated 45. and some other Dick in old Area 6 carried a nickel plated 45 as well. Sure as hell know they didnt come in 1953.
Nah!
That wasn't nickel, it was polished stainless steel!
Who voted???.....
Yup. Couple in my district I can think of. I won't touch a striker fired pistol. Dropping it, putting it back in the holster. BANG! Oops! Shit - is that camera working? Uh Oh!
7/24/2015 11:11:00 AM
You're full of shit or stupid. Or both. The gun doesn't go off unless someone's finger is on the trigger In the middle of the trigger is the lock, both need to be depressed to fire. Dropping the weapon? Nonsense.
Recall Officer Jay Brunkella, 024th District? Killed when his partner's model 1911 Colt .45 cal discharged a round into his chest. Tac guy, no vest. 1986. Partner was using the pistol as a bludgeon, not cocked and locked, just cocked and ready to go boom.
At the Burger King on Lawrence a little west of Western another tact officer's model 1911 .45 cal discharged, killing an offender with a .45 cal round under his nose. No great loss but it didn't need to happen. Lawsuit, investigation, I don't know if the officer took any time. He eventually made Lt in 023.
...... the only thing that stood out in your post to me was your story and question of a officer in 023. As far as the officer taking time? Well you answered your own question, he was promoted to Lt. Obviously if he was a nobody he would have been fired or in jail.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not a cop but what is striker fired and why would they move to a less lethal weapon?
7/23/2015 09:37:00 AM
Google it!
Post a Comment
<< Home