Detectives as E.T.s?
An interesting concept, but would it fly here?
- Trust me people, there is a reason the department is about to hire a ton of detectives.
Allegedly, in the next few years certain detectives will be cross trained in crime scene processing and collection. They will respond to shootings and homicides with a "team" of detectives. One or two of the detecives in this team will act as the ETs and process the scene and gather evidence.
Several departments are starting to do this throughout the country and its actually pretty successful. The team of detectives works well together and its easier to keep track of evidence and reports when its all one team processing, collecting, interviewing and investigating the crime. No more calls to the ETs or having to hunt down a certain ET months later etc. Everyone will be on the same team and a Det on that team will be the person processing the scene. As a detective I actually find this interesting and pretty good idea.
But just so all of you know, this is why they are going to be adding hundreds of detectives, not just because they want more to work cases. even though the guys who collect the evidence will also be able to play an investigative role in cases they are working with their team and when not collecting evidence and being an "ET" they will be able to have their own caseload. In california in towns that have detectives that do this they are usually compensated with an out of grade type slip when they play ET.
It would be necessary to change the entire culture of the D-unit....can it be done?
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
102 Comments:
Think back a bit and remember when each District actually had ET's in patrol cars on the watch.
They would go on the silly cases and not do paper jobs but when an ET was needed even for a lowly burglary they were on scene in minutes and if you bought them lunch they would actually find prints!
It can't be done at this shithole, they don't have enough equipment, the equipment here is a fucking joke, not enough cameras not enough cars....
Sounds more efficient and cost effective. As long as the subject detectives want it to work, it will probably work just fine.
All ready being done. Arson dicks process own scene....inventory, photographs, all recovered evidence, etc. No ET. The u go back to area to package and do your paper. Grievence already filed many years ago. Lost....so there is precedent.
Is that like Crime Scene Investigators?
It would make sense to hire more "Evidence Technician" at a cheaper grade and assigned these pour souls to a team. They will work closely withe V/C. SvU and other teams or go civilians and pay them cheaper without any Union benefits.
He lost me with his first three words ... "Trust me people". Anyway...
I hope this IS true, so that all future murders, death investigations and agg batts will be handled by the guys that make D2A opposed to us at D2.
Now add to this the fact that detectives now outnumber ETs 15-1 (soon to be somewhere closer to 25-1 if the rumors of huge detective classes are true), and it makes more sense for the dicks to handle the tasks and duties associated with evidence collection in important cases. Chain of custody for evidence in heater cases would especially benefit from this idea.
But don't worry about being put out to pasture all you ETs. We'll still be humping the tens of thousands of burglaries, domestics, CDTPs, print and photo jobs, rape kits etcetera, but it'll actually lighten our workload. I say bring it on, and while they're training the new dicks, be sure to let them know that they're still to do their own GSR's, buccal swabs and LU photos.
But here's the reality as anyone with more than a minute on this job will tell you: this idea actually makes very good sense, therefore it'll probably never be implemented in the CPD. I'll believe this as truth as soon as we get a dozen or so new cars in the unit.
I like it. Very interesting.
Also all the OT hogs in the D Unit are about to take a big cut in OT with all the new detectives coming in. The city thinks that by adding more manpower the OT can be tamped down.
How about the 5th watch at 018 .. sorry we don't do paper, I need to go home early its my Friday...
Wow great idea for a department that handles one or two homicides and handful of serious crimes a year. Applying that to Chicago is rediculous, the logistics alone would be a catastrophe waiting to happen. It's almost like the person who posted that comment has absolutely no clue what they are talking about and was only looking to stir up some shit talking
Arson detectives have been doing that for years
This is more of Rahm's running the CPD on the cheap and the people and the department be damned. There's a reason why Detectives wear suits and Evidence Technicians wear fatigue uniforms. Detectives have to pry into minds and files and Evidence Technicians have to pry into blood splatters and burn outs.
The skills of a good Detective and a good Evidence Technician take a long time to develop and are not always interchangeable. Is this going to be Detectives as E.T.s or E.T.s assigned to the ever dwindling Detective Division to cover up for the shortage of Detectives. Maybe everyone who makes D2 and D2a pay will be assigned to the Detective Division to hide the shortage.
Stay Safe. Maybe one of the Canine Unit dogs should bite Eddie on the ass before he thinks to assign them to the Detective Division too.
GREAT! Life imitates Art. All those clever crime solving CSI types will be wearing new jackets to impress the opposite sex, and gelling their hair to a higher gloss. The old dicks will just laugh, and continue on, until they are put out to pasture.
Actually ETs are all civilians at LAPD and other California cities. I know cuz I'm applying for jobs now.
You might think you want to get there, but you wont be happy when you do....
There is no doubt it can work,but it will cost them 10's of millions dollars extra. I'm not going to explain but I have been in Forensic Services Section for 15 yrs and I will kill it in ot.
You do need that separation from the person's investigating the crime.
It seems like a good idea.
Simplify the system. But will these be merit picks?
Sounds like C.S.I. which would fit. Politicians often finds TV shows that they begin to emulate. They are not that smart and think it's all real.
Does this mean my rank of 750 is good?
Detective class starting December 5th with 110 in thr class. The second class of 110 is scheduled for around February before the police academy starts getting full with recruits. After that the next class will start in September when the summer is over. Rahm wants to say he hired over 200 detectives in a few months.
If true it's got that JO Don O'Neil written all over it. And I hope it's true because I'm sick and tired of handling all this nonsense IN ADDITION to jobs our illustrious FIs are supposed to be handling. All while the FOP and city go thru the motions of the Dog & Pony Show called arbitration regarding out of grade pay (not holding my breath on this seeing FOPs dismal track record with arbitrations). I think it's only fair that detectives handle the physical evidence at police shootings, 0110s, 041As and every other 'death investigation'. Especially since they get paid more and it's about a 8:1 ratio vs. ETs. PS, make some damn phone calls and get us some effing cars already Murphy & McMurray. Or I guess it's cool since you guys each have safe take home vehicles while us grunts drive death traps every day.
OMG...this is the worst idea I could hear as a field Detective. There are so many reasons this would not work in a place like Chicago. You're a Detective? Teams my ass. E.T.'s should be given even more training and lots more bodies...that's the problem. Detectives should be given lots more bodies...that's the problem. They should be lightening the work load on both not giving one more duties. Only those who don't do either job, or don't have a case load, could believe this would work in a Department this size...but more importantly, a place with this volume of serious crime?
Uhmm come out for burglaries?? I highly doubt it.. it's bad enough et are understaffed.
While they're at it why doesn't one pretend to be a Sergeant, Lieutenant and Captain too
"Kaching, Kaching" , where can I find that Porsche catalogue,
So when are they going to promote more ET's
Oh joy, more work, more court, more time away from family, more grey hair. As if we don't have enough shit to do already.
Gee......where do I sign up. RBT dicks handle 300-400 cases a year now. Now you want me to be an ET to boot? I am either a field detective or an ET detective, not both sorry.
What a great idea however it's not new, now they want the police to be mentors, psychotherapists, de-escalationists, and all around warm and fuzzy people. Sorry mom, June - Bug just got capped, want a hug?
Think back a bit and remember when each District actually had ET's in patrol cars on the watch.
They would go on the silly cases and not do paper jobs but when an ET was needed even for a lowly burglary they were on scene in minutes and if you bought them lunch they would actually find prints!
Great idea. It would require the dept to add to the already low number of budgeted positions. Right now 100. Will be 110 in 2017. And there are only 70 on the streeet. Approx 28 are assigned to admin duties and evidence evaluation. 2 are on LOA for medical reasons and count against the budgeted numbers.
If they were to go back to the district based ets, you would need two per watch per district. And possibly 2 more per district to act as floaters for time off and furlough relief. So 8 per district times 22 districts. So 176 ets. It will never happen.
Yes and the Arson clearance rate is a testament to how well it works 0.00001#
i DOUBT IT.
I am sure they need more dets. But I doubt this is why.
"speaking as a detective" that's my opinion.
maybe the dets will actually come out then
Stop doing more with less. It's pretty much that simple. This won't work.
Just my opinion but it *sounds* like a good idea. Though long serving Detectives likely will not like it. But if its done with all the new ones Tiny Dancer says will be hired it *should* work.
And it will really be getting back to the basics of the 'Modern Detective' working with Forensics. Many folks (and people) don't know this, though I'm sure a lot of you Police do, the 'Father' of Forensics & Modern Police Procedures is no other than the one and only; Mr Sherlock Holmes, the first 'consulting detective'. No, that's not a joke. You can Google for videos on how that evolved & 'Holmes Methods' became SOP in police departments.
Naturally as science & technology evolved it became a bit much for a detective to do it all and the; Evidence Technicians, Criminologists, 'CSI' Experts, became a separate discipline. So hopefully this will work out here.
Then again, lets get real. This IS Chicago, a city defined by its corruption and ineptitude. Or in plain English: a city run by Crooks and Morons. So they'll screw this up too.
You get better in doing what you do if you do it frequently. The gutting of the crime scene processing will come back and bit the department in the ass big time in a heater case where the evidence is either overlooked or mishandled.
"In california in towns that have detectives that do this they are usually compensated with an out of grade type slip when they play ET."
Would you please approve my slip to make D2 pay said no detective ever! Maybe at D3 pay this would gain traction, but doubt this will ever happen.
Bring back the **09 cars!
It's a bad idea...hope they don't do it.
This is nothing new, Bomb and Arson Detectives process their own scenes and this was incorporated in the 1980's. If you needed the crime lab for some special processing then you requested their expertise.
Major Accident has been collecting its own evidence for years.
No reason the Dets can't collect their own case evidence. The chain of custody would have one less link.
Waiting for ETs to show up is ridicules.
Rahm wants to cross train the Dets like the FD is. Eventually get rid of the ETs.
What's next the Crime Lab?
Anonymous said...
Also all the OT hogs in the D Unit are about to take a big cut in OT with all the new detectives coming in. The city thinks that by adding more manpower the OT can be tamped down.
10/05/2016 01:36:00 AM
Wrong.
Overtime whores will always get their o.t.
But those who hate overtime get their lives back.
Did it for 10 years before retiring..... If you want it done right do it yourself.
(OT) Isis issues a warning to use knives to stab people and terror attack 2 coppers stabbed:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/breaking-three-belgium-police-officers-8984142
As the saying goes "stay vigilant watch your 6"
Do more with less
Conflict of interest, conspiring to put a case on some guy, etc will be the new defense (not that it isn't already, but will increase) with forensics and detectives all the same people. That's why CPD stopped doing a lot of processing and had to start sending out to ISP.
Why not just have a Crime Scene Unit, oh yeah, we had one and the city dismantled it. FI's are a thing of the past. Guys who really knew what they were doing and worked extremely well with the D Unit. Every REAL big city department has them, but NOT Shitcago.
Numb skulls. Absolute Numb skulls. The concept works when there's 1 or two minor crimes to record Per Watch -Per Area. Not only will the Det be responsible for the scene evidence and recovery, they still have a shitload of paperwork to complete before the end of their tour. ET's acting alone as a Unit can easily gather 20 or more Inventories on just 1 brutal scene, then photograph and submit their reports. Det. can be overwhelmed simply by the scope and size of scene. Reminder, as of now, Dets are going out one man on midnights just to interview 20 cousins, search a 2 block crime scene, locate the first responders because their Supv released them, etc etc etc. needless to mention on a slow night 10 shootings citywide is a minimum. Do More with Less. It's a lot of responsibility for 1 Det handling his one case. It can be done, but at what expense?
If this goofy scheme survives (like the UUW pilot program) the Area would need at least 4 D-ET's on each watch every tour.
Unless its just for Homicde teams, there's no way it will work citywide. Keeping a Det on a scene waiting for overloaded ET's takes hours, happens often.
Again, the Brain Trust that thought of this needs a psych-evaluation and should have been screened prior to their Merit Appointment.
I don't know if this will work well for CPD.
I heard that many years ago the NYPD tried this with disastrous results. The Dets. who were supposed to be doing ET duties often got caught up more in the investigation side of things rather than the crime scene processing side. This led to bad results for the crime scene & evidence collection.
The two sides SHOULD be able to work together and COMPLEMENT each other. Additionally, Dets. should give the ETs a "heads up" to let the ETs know if they should be looking for anything specific. Conversely ETs should advise the Dets. if they should discover anything which would bolster the investigation such as the "signature" frequently found at scenes of serial crimes.
I worked on both sides over the years. I was assigned to a multi-jurisdictional task force. Crime scene processing was much more interesting after I got tired of listening to the lies and half-truths of witnesses AND victims.
Whichever way it goes, best of luck to all involved!
Retired Ol' Sixgun Sarge
First off I haven't cleared a case in about two years. I don't plan on clearing a case for as long as I'm a detective unless it's a slam dunk put right in my lap for me. I don't care about any of this. You want me to play ET? Happily. I'll do it all day long. Let these real wannabe super hero dics go out and clear cases. I'd rather eat lunch twice a day and make some easy overtime.
(OT) End of Naperville? Keep electing liberals pay the huge taxes are you hiring more police? Better start:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/naperville-sun/ct-nvs-naperville-council-housing-vouchers-st-1007-20161005-story.html
Best place live now that will be in your rearview mirror!
So let close down the ET's building put them in the 3 area's put all those clouted white shirt back to the district.
a few less commander and Lt's?
shutter those shit hole buildings and give it to the sex registration officers who should not be out of HQ!
Photo's should be done by patrol, domestics,Agg bats(the misd.) and CDTP with phones provided by the department.
The inventory system is ancient and should be revamped to upload photos to the actual case report.
If the public new how many scenes were CONTAMINATED they would beg for more ET's. The desk SGT of ET"S has the power to kill crime by refusing
to send anyone out. UNless it is an exempts family member or an alderman nephew.
I call bullshit. The city has tr aged ET's and the crime lab like crap
for years. They have always been way under staffed. We used to wait for the crime lab to finish processing one murder scene before coming to process a second scene with in the same tour. This was before going back to properly inventory and write reports
On the first scene. No mistakes there I'm sure. These guys made a go of OT "blood money." We still don't have a proper unit to handle video evidence. You still have Detectives in tiny offices of restaurants and gas stations attempting to
Figure out how to download video onto their own personal flash drives. Nice chain of custody. And people wonder why our clearencenrate is
so low. Let's see 1. Not enough Detectives. 2. Poor supervision. 3. Ancient crime scene processing techniques. 4. No real video recovery unit. 5. Detectives open to all kinds of legal issues like turning over their personal cell phones to defense attorneys. Fabrication of statements and witnesses. It's almost like they don't want us to clear cases. Hmmm maybe that's it.
I'm pretty sure that Army CID agents also process their own crime scenes. Then again, they don't have anywhere near the caseload of CPD. Crime scene processing is getting so specialized and technical that I personally don't think it's a good idea to combine the two in one body. Now, having this "team" include a specialist who just processes crime scenes makes sense.
Here's an idea. How about CPD hires some of these college kids with forensic science degrees who actually know how to collect evidence and preserve samples. Kids who majored in photography and film making to document scenes. IT kids who know how to recover computer evidence and video surveillance footage. How about you ask for a federal grant to build offices and labs to get this up and running. How about you use this venue to train other smaller departments and agencies nationally. How about you pass laws that dictate how evidence is handled and processed. How about we just do something other then giving new Detectives an 8 hour segment in evidence recovery and call them ET's/Detectives. No, let's do it on the cheap and watch it fail you know the Chicago way.
I Remember when they trained Detectives to take their own pictures of line ups and do their own buccal swab collections. That was a great fricken idea. So you have two Detectives that are 1 assigned the case 2 conduct the investigation including interviews and interrogations. 3. Photograph your own line up and 4 collect your own buccal swab. Talk about a defense attorney's dream case.
that is an excellent idea
train district officers to process crime scenes for recovered vehicles , residential burglary
Don't nobody take no OT away from little Eddie W
An officer in my district made a recommendation to the department that reporting officers take photographs of domestic battery victims. It looks like how things are going this goof may have his wish.
How about the 5th watch at 018 .. sorry we don't do paper, I need to go home early its my Friday...
10/05/2016 01:40:00 AM
The 5th watch as ET's? Sure, but if the job isn't at "Bottle Blond" or on Hubbard St, the dwarven EVT sergeant must give the go ahead.
Any cheating on the detectives test?
Anonymous said...
Arson detectives have been doing that for years
10/05/2016 05:03:00 AM
Or talking their way out of doing it. " We're not coming out, it's a non criminal fire" But, there's a gas can in the house. "We can't prove it had any connection.
Mah... 10 more years and counting.
Stay fetal my friends and watch the circus burn.
Civilian ETs cool, are they gonna have armed guards? I know lets get off duty POs to guard the ETs. In addition they should make the ETs deive around in the pesonal cars. FUCK it lets all just patrol in our personal cars. In 015 at Chicago and Long, years ago, ET asks, "Is it safe here?" Sgt answers, about as safe a usual.
This is not a new idea. I left the D-Unit many years ago to put on a white shirt and remember when this was discussed, around '97-'98. Many thought it was coming then. Don't be surprised if this happens. Remember when Detectives couldn't process juvies? Had to call over to Youth. Nobody thought they would just eliminate the position of Youth Officer; well? It will happen, trust me.
and if you bought them lunch they would actually find prints!
Do you know how stupid you sound.
Who would pay for prints.
You are a class asshole
I don't trust anything Rahm does. He always has an ulterior motive and most of what comes out of his mouth is a lie.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
Arson detectives have been doing that for years
10/05/2016 05:03:00 AM
Or talking their way out of doing it. " We're not coming out, it's a non criminal fire" But, there's a gas can in the house. "We can't prove it had any connection.
Well KID !! When you make it there then you can make those decisions too !
Plus, please tell how you would testify in court that you know what that gas can was doing in there !!
Anonymous said...
Yes and the Arson clearance rate is a testament to how well it works 0.00001#
10/05/2016 08:45:00 AM
And what exactly is your clearance rate pushing that beat car ??
Not a fan of most things this Department does, but this might not be a bad idea. Let's wait and see.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Major Accident has been collecting its own evidence for years.
Really? I've been an E.T. for years and have gone out and collected the evidence for major accidents for years so obviously you have no idea what you're talking about so please just stop. You have no idea what an E.T. or maiu does now go back in mommies basement.
To the idiots that say that Arson Detectives have been doing it for years, that's because they do nothing else!!! If there is a body, it gets turned over to homicide. All they do is submit evidence and come up with a cause. No investigating!!!
detectives have been photographing their lineups for at least 4 years
On the manpower number of ET's.
The math is horse shit the department need more ET's. The amount of crime scene not being processed is insane. I don't expect anyone in patrol to have to argue to have an ET come out for a garage burglary.
put them on 10 hour day in the districts give them FRI-SAT/ SUN-MON day off groups.
The saving will come in response times and being near the actual scene.
Taking regular photos such as bruises,spray painted churches or stabbed tires should be a victims problem.
But special ED has very few people who are actually managers of anything dealing with money. Just clouted who dream of a take home car and a cute fiance".
Re...
Anonymous said...
Also all the OT hogs in the D Unit are about to take a big cut in OT with all the new detectives coming in. The city thinks that by adding more manpower the OT can be tamped down.
10/05/2016 01:36:00 AM
Wrong.
Overtime whores will always get their o.t.
But those who hate overtime get their lives back.
---
Super wrong! Johnny new guy won't be going anywhere near a homicide, my OT is alive and well!
Nice try smalls, don't hate the player, hate the game.
Hey I didn't score 1200 to do someone else's job.
The problem with Dicks as evidence techs is this .
You got nothin kid .
Less evidence will be collected .
Not gonna happen. NO manpower from patrol ranks will be taken for this. They will make Sgts and Lts first
put them on 10 hour day in the districts give them FRI-SAT/ SUN-MON day off groups.
-------------
What are you smoking?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
and if you bought them lunch they would actually find prints!
Do you know how stupid you sound.
Who would pay for prints.
You are a class asshole
Haha. Sounds like some smartass ET found some idiot to buy him lunch.
Anonymous said...
detectives have been photographing their lineups for at least 4 years
10/05/2016 07:13:00 PM
I was a Detective in the 1980's and we usually photographed our own lineups.
We just got 35mm cameras then and prior to that we used 4x5 Speed Graphic Press Cameras.
When we had '09 cars in the districts we never had to wait too long for an E.T. from the district we were in or a neighboring one. Or we just did it ourselves.
Stay Safe and Watch the Birdie.
First off I haven't cleared a case in about two years. I don't plan on clearing a case for as long as I'm a detective unless it's a slam dunk put right in my lap for me. I don't care about any of this. You want me to play ET? Happily. I'll do it all day long. Let these real wannabe super hero dics go out and clear cases. I'd rather eat lunch twice a day and make some easy overtime.
10/05/2016 01:00:00 PM
You are genius sir. Follow the law and procedure to a tee. Guy lawyers up., so be it. Make it all a witness case, if anyone can find these mutts who want to be paid and eat on your dime. Witnesses are free to leave at anytime they want. Anyone breaking the rules of conduct, will be standing tall before a Federal Judge.
Call the ASA - and let them fully charge or not based on what you have.
Supervisor not happy ? Let them reassign. Put you sup into =Chris= and keep a copy. Even if unapproved by supervisor and it gets kicked back, redo with why the supervisor thinks the sup is not up to par.
Been gone for 5 years, and lived by the proper rules as a dick.
Way too many Big City Dick mentality in the 3 areas that thinking they can play games with right way to do things.
Really? I've been an E.T. for years and have gone out and collected the evidence for major accidents for years so obviously you have no idea what you're talking about so please just stop. You have no idea what an E.T. or maiu does now go back in mommies basement.
10/05/2016 06:34:00 PM
MAIU collects its evidence from a crash scene and bags it, collects blooded clothing and bags it, measures the scene, does buccal swabs, cuts out airbags and bags it, retrieves the black box and downloads data, collects paint chips and bags it, and takes photos of the scene as well as of line-ups. Apparently you believe that collecting blood samples and processing photos and fingerprints for hospitalized arrestees qualifies you to know what MAIU does. Go hide in your hole waiting for your next assignment.
Anonymous said...
To the idiots that say that Arson Detectives have been doing it for years, that's because they do nothing else!!! If there is a body, it gets turned over to homicide. All they do is submit evidence and come up with a cause. No investigating!!!
10/05/2016 07:03:00 PM
Sounds like someone is jealous !! You must be one of those youth processors (not that they are bad) or scored low on the test which turned you into a hater
Now go get your shine box
Super wrong! Johnny new guy won't be going anywhere near a homicide, my OT is alive and well!
I can tell that you don't work in Area South because plenty of Johnny new guys get stuck working homicides, sometimes by themselves. Just another reason the clearance rate is so low. Manpower is so short and the bosses just don't care because of it.
The problem with Dicks as evidence techs is this .
You got nothin kid .
Less evidence will be collected .
10/05/2016 10:06:00 PM
No, the real problem with Dicks as evidence techs is Manpower and workload. People suggesting this nonsense have never been an ET or a detective. They have no clue about the amount of work that goes into these crime scenes and the amount of work that comes after as well as the time factor. There's only so many hours in a day and we're human beings who believe it or not have to sleep once in awhile. As usual with this fucked up department, what's going to start happening is 2 detectives having to go out to these homicide and shooting scenes to handle everything because of manpower shortages. If you think the department making a couple hundred detectives is going to solve the manpower problem and make everything better, you're delusional.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
All ready being done. Arson dicks process own scene....inventory, photographs, all recovered evidence, etc. No ET. The u go back to area to package and do your paper. Grievence already filed many years ago. Lost....so there is precedent.
10/05/2016 12:38:00 AM
--
ya, but how many cases do they get?
This will not work and here's why. Ahem ... "speaking as a detective" of course ... take yourself too seriously much? WHat are you LAPD or something?
anyway ... 90% of my jobs are given to me when I'm off - those are called "handouts" I am sure "as a detective" you are aware of those
so who handles those? the armed robberies at 2 a.m.?
come on ... turn on your brain and thing "as a detective"
If you are talking about teams that just handled the 2 homicides per day then that will work I guess ... but I still doubt the city would do that ... but maybe
but that's not why they are hiring detectives ... they are hiring detectives because we need detectives
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This is not a new idea. I left the D-Unit many years ago to put on a white shirt and remember when this was discussed, around '97-'98. Many thought it was coming then. Don't be surprised if this happens. Remember when Detectives couldn't process juvies? Had to call over to Youth. Nobody thought they would just eliminate the position of Youth Officer; well? It will happen, trust me.
10/05/2016 05:07:00 PM
--
ya but Youth went right back to the way it used to be - there is a specialized group that just process juveniles ... cross trained detectives, ya, they are cross trained, but they never go near processing a juvenile. I processed one juvenile when all this cross training started. ONE. That's it.
Detectives are prohibited from showing their victim a photo lineup.
Apparently the system does not trust them to be ethical, so now the
Dets have to use a blind administrator. Bad concept... For that
Reason, i doubt this would be implemented here. Detectives
Would then be blamed for tampering with physical evidence, on
Top of all of the other false allegegations lodged at them by
Unscrupulous defense attorneys.
Interesting, when I was an ET it sure seemed like I was always responding to traffic crashes or the pound to cut out air bags, swab steering wheels and recover evidence from vehicles. Just because MAIU is supposed to do there own evidence doesn't mean that they do, and when they were confronted about why they aren't processing their own scene it was always some bullshit excuse. If the MAUI poster is so skilled and knows how to bag and photograph evidence, why doesn't he/she collect his own blood samples and photograph and fingerprint their own prisoners? you bag your own bloody cloths, take your own pictures and everyone was trained in ink fingerprints.
Most of the folks talking here about the ET situation have no idea what the position requires. The work that is done at the scene is only part of the job and depending on the amount of evidence recovered the reports, packaging and inventories usually take longer than the time to process the scene. Most POs only see what is done at the scene itself. Detectives will be down for hours doing the paperwork needed. When the ETs were moved into the districts in 1989 they made over 300 ETs. There were usually 2 or 3 per watch in each district and only 1 actually worked as the ET. The others worked a beat car. This caused many of the ETs to resign as they were not doing the job anyway. Then the watch commanders started using the ETs anyway they wanted and many times if they were short on the watch either downed the 09 car or told the ET to work a beat car and take out the ET equipment and do double duty. This caused many more ETs to quit and go back to the watch. By the mid 90s most districts were lucky to have 1 ET per watch left. The ETs that were left spent most days going from one district to the next and from job to job. The ET numbers continued to dwindle down until not only were you handling your district and the neighboring district on your zone but also the districts in your area and then districts in any other area that didn't have an ET working. The brains at 35th St. then decided to move all the ETs that were left to North and South locations and now to one location at Homan Square. Add to the equation the department decided to let the FIs that handled most of the homicides and Police shooting retire and not replace them effectively shutting down that unit and requiring the ETs to handle those scenes too it is no wonder that there are no ETs available to handle burglaries, vehicle thefts, etc. The problem is not going to fix itself and asking Detectives to process they're own scenes will not work. Detective work and evidence work are two different animals and the only was you get good at doing either one is to do the job over and over. That's the main reason each area had Detectives that handled most of the homicides and FIs that handled the homicide scenes. Other violent crimes Detectives handled lesser crimes and ETs handled the property crime and violent crime scenes where the victim likely wouldn't die.
Ret. 177
Anonymous Anonymous said...
If true it's got that JO Don O'Neil written all over it. And I hope it's true because I'm sick and tired of handling all this nonsense IN ADDITION to jobs our illustrious FIs are supposed to be handling. All while the FOP and city go thru the motions of the Dog & Pony Show called arbitration regarding out of grade pay (not holding my breath on this seeing FOPs dismal track record with arbitrations).
10/05/2016 07:27:00 AM
********
Ag-u-liar is that you?
FOP for your info wins about 80% of total of cases taken to arbitration. The problem is that the city wins because it stalls the process so long.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Interesting, when I was an ET it sure seemed like I was always responding to traffic crashes or the pound to cut out air bags, swab steering wheels and recover evidence from vehicles. Just because MAIU is supposed to do there own evidence doesn't mean that they do, and when they were confronted about why they aren't processing their own scene it was always some bullshit excuse. If the MAUI poster is so skilled and knows how to bag and photograph evidence, why doesn't he/she collect his own blood samples and photograph and fingerprint their own prisoners? you bag your own bloody cloths, take your own pictures and everyone was trained in ink fingerprints.
10/06/2016 11:26:00 AM
Evidently you missed the class on when a prisoner is hospitalized and requires photo and prints, it is the policy of the Department to have an ET do that, not a police officer, not a Det, not a MAIU Traffic Specialist. Your lack of knowledge on the subject explains your defensive posture and ignorance.
As for blood samples, go ask your former bosses why you do it and not MAIU Traffic Specialists.
As for your other grievances, I refer you to your bosses who tell you to go out and do the work that others are able to do and have done. Seems your gripe is with your bosses for making you work when you didn't have to.
I suggest you bone up on the orders since you apparently don't even know why or who is by Department policy is to photo and print hospitalized arrestees.
A2 VC. Not saying it's not true but have been hearing it for years.
Also all the OT hogs in the D Unit are about to take a big cut in OT with all the new detectives coming in. The city thinks that by adding more manpower the OT can be tamped down.
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Obviously you have never been a Detective, because that ain't gonna happen.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
If true it's got that JO Don O'Neil written all over it. And I hope it's true because I'm sick and tired of handling all this nonsense IN ADDITION to jobs our illustrious FIs are supposed to be handling. All while the FOP and city go thru the motions of the Dog & Pony Show called arbitration regarding out of grade pay (not holding my breath on this seeing FOPs dismal track record with arbitrations).
10/05/2016 07:27:00 AM
********
Ag-u-liar is that you?
FOP for your info wins about 80% of total of cases taken to arbitration. The problem is that the city wins because it stalls the process so long.
@@@@@@
Yes they do win many arbitrations however just none of angular... such as his awesome FTO grievance... it was pure genious.
FOP for your info wins about 80% of total of cases taken to arbitration. The problem is that the city wins because it stalls the process so long.
10/06/2016 02:45:00 PM
Anyone involved in any of this already knows this, but the reason FOP wins 80% is because of Don Oneil. His philosophy is 'fuck the copper - we know we are dead wrong but let them arbitrate'.
He is a stone jag off that personally liked being a jag off. There was no reason to bring the simplest things to arbitration when the city was dead wrong, but Oneil liked being a prick and made the officer and the Union arbitrate. Made them spend the Union's money, your money.
His Karma train is coming from what I hear. I can't say I feel one once of sympathy for him. He is truly a bad person.
FI's handled homicides ? High paid E.T.'s
What happened to the Mobile Unit Tech II 's and E.T.'s Tech I's
Only about 1/3 of Mobile Unit were Trch Ii's , most E.T.'s wearing a suit or sport coat
I do agree keep it separate .
About E.T.s handling arson scenes...
I am neither an E.T. or an Arson Detective but I have known many of both in my career, as well as Fire Fighters and I could have been any of them. I have reported and supervised many fires great and small in my career. Some of the physical scene investigations can take the better part of a day, some can even take days. The investigator has to follow burn patterns, pry up floor boards, knock holes in walls and really get into the dirt, ash and chaos. They have to have their own helmets, gloves, boots and turn-out gear. Arson Detectives are some of the most educated police officers I every had the pleasure of working with.
Stay Safe. Examining an arson scene is best left to the specialists.
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