Worse and Worse
Word that the injured officer suffered serious concussion and breaks to some bones. Her partner isn't much better off:
- The female officer, who was taken to Lutheran General Hospital, suffered a concussion and multiple lacerations and bruises to her face and head, Santini said. She also was treated for a bone chip to the wrist and shoulder and had a neck injury.
Her partner also was taken to the hospital with a concussion and had cuts, bruises, a torn quad and a broken thumb, Santini said.
That might explain while neither officer was able to get a handgun into play - one was unconscious and one had a broken thumb, rendering him unable to unsnap and draw.
The PCP sodden felon fought through three different Taser hits, pulling the prongs out at one point. He also has four previous arrests for resisting - any word from Anita's office why a few of these hadn't resulted in extensive prison time?
The PCP sodden felon fought through three different Taser hits, pulling the prongs out at one point. He also has four previous arrests for resisting - any word from Anita's office why a few of these hadn't resulted in extensive prison time?
Labels: officer injured
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
67 Comments:
We need to unleash "The Cooter"
Give them both disability. This job can not be saved. Mayor and Supe willing to risk everyone to save their asses.
Three taser hits, isn't that in violation of "Eddie the Stripper's" new order. Whack job!
Assholes like this know they will get off so they have no fear of resisting. Great laws we have here that go unpunished.
Hoping for a full and quick recovery for the officers.
Not a cop: are youz allowed to use beanbag rounds?
I read there's a company that makes a .357 beanbag.
We all know god damn well why the offender never served "real time ". As they say in the ghetto . .shits gettin real.
Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed.
The Progressive Feel-Goodery and the
Perpetual Aggrievement that is embodied
in the new Use of Force is fully reconciled
to mandating that Policemen be in receipt
of grievous harm nigh unto death before
they're grudgingly permitted to defend themselves.
Fat-Head Ed was nauseating as he talked
all around these horribly injured Officers
being more than justified in killing the offender.
Thank God none of these Officers were disarmed...
We could be preparing for an honors funeral or three.
And we would have to endure the indignity of
listening to the Joyful Haters and talking heads waxing
eloquent about how "honorable and "restrained
those officers were in their ultimate sacrifice."
You know... Policemen aren't supposed to get
mean and fight back to protect themselves.
They might hurt somebody.
One undeniable truth in modern urban Policing.
Policemen ARE supposed to be dangerous in the extreme.
Why?
Because these streets are dangerous, brutal and unforgiving.
Because evil creatures wander about with nary a thought
to civility, duty and law.
Wasn't there some other guy high on pcp wielding a knife that everyone is still talking about? What were the officers supposed to do then? De-escalate and try to control the guy? This city and mayor really disgusts me stay safe and fetal boys and girls
Great the officers are okay, though battered. However, now we are seeing the first of the 'second guessing' ourselves to the point of almost being murdered or a partner being murdered. Not good.
why anyone would want this job is a mystery
That might explain while neither officer was able to get a handgun into play - one was unconscious and one had a broken thumb, rendering him unable to unsnap and draw.
----------------------------------------------
No back-up gun? No training (AND PRACTICE) of weak-hand shooting? (meaning - if you are right-handed, practice shooting left-handed)
A mere .22 on your "weak side" would have been enough to pull out and empty behind this guy's ear.
Too violent? Not civilized? Too Mafia? Totally not politically correct for a "Big City" police department?
HEY, I lived next to a cop who had to put down a 95-pound girl who was on PCP and she broke his thumb while resisting arrest (about 25 years ago). She showed up in court in a suit and didn't look like she could hurt a fly.
Most people reading this blog - including many on police forces - have no idea what PCP does to someone (As far as their strength) because they have NEVER been up against someone on PCP. If this guy was 300 pounds, no wonder they could not stop him.
Reading about all this, reading the comments, and critiques (not only here but in the media), makes me disappointed that this situation happened. It should NOT have happened.
The reality is, it is going to happen again and you better be better-prepared for it.
Start practicing and carrying for a weak-hand response (if you're lefty, practice righty and vice-versa).
Not to "police standards"? Evidently "police standards" have to be changed when you're in a war zone.
In a war zone, you need to use any weapon and tactic you can to survive.
If cops are supposed to "take a beating" rather than fight, what about unarmed civilians? NOT me.
Sorry but I don't buy off on this "protect the criminal" BS. As I said in a prior post, time to take back the city. The BIG question is, who is going to go on TV to announce this?
Well Ladies and Gentlemen, what would the media proclaimed State's Attorney Elect (even though there's an election Nov.8) do (or not do?). If you're masquerading as Kimm Fox - but your name is really Kimisha, you'll maintain your anti-police stance and do NOTHING. After all, your clout Prickwrinkle maintains that there too many blacks in jail as Dart the Fart closes several Divisions of the CC DOC. Our lame duck State's Atty. Alvarez will do nothing in hopes of being placed on the bench by the de facto judge maker AlderCreature Burke.
Vote for Chris Pfannkuche for State's Atty. and tell Prickwrinkle that she can't control the judicial process. If you don't know a judge on the retention ballot is pro police - Vote NO - and tell Burke not to interfere with judicial slate making. A "judicial enema" is needed now more than ever. Make sure that your relatives/friends are registered to vote & they avoid the lines by absentee/early voting.
Hey FOP # 7 - get off your ass and endorse Pfannkuche.
Retired .38 spl P
If Jvd's lawyer is smart he will use this as an example on what pcp can do to someone
News radio reporting now that this prick (Maywood) is held on no bond, charged with attempted murder and aggravated battery.
What can you say about a system that reduces a 17-year veteran officer to being afraid to defend her life because the f__ing Daughters Of Assata in their '60s black leather suits and matching co-ordinated purple berets will be all chained together on her front lawn the next morning, with Ja'Mal X and Lemon Record littering the place with expended D-cells from their miserable bullhorns.
The wrong people are running this city -- all the way from the top down -- and like SCC says, this crew has to be dismantled before it does any more harm.
This eggheaded "Safe Space" crap has now spread from the Common Rooms of bucolic college campuses to our violent streets. OK. First "Chicago Safe Space" to be around Rahm's place. Anything happens, de-escalate. That means "Run away." Since you can't protect anyone anymore, save yourself. Signs will depict a silhouette of a police officer, surmounted by the struck red circle.
Thank you all you pandering Democrats. These officers were injured due to your bullshit.
It sickens me to see what has happened to the Department. The bosses should resign after this, how do you get up in the morning Ed and Kevin? remember when you were young officers, you my brothers are shameful. Resign!
So, if he pulled out the taser darts, I'm going to assume the OC spray didn't effect him to much either.I hope this mutt catches some prison time for this.
Wait until you see the videos...
Heal well and fully (in time) both officers.
The love and support from your 'peers' are the true form of recognition.
We wish both of you the best.
God Bless...
Dan Herbert, are you paying attention?
Here's some ammo (figuratively speaking) for anyone who did use lethal force on someone high on PCP (and armed) and was later forced off the job and maybe even charged criminally .............
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Not a cop: are youz allowed to use beanbag rounds?
I read there's a company that makes a .357 beanbag.
10/08/2016 12:36:00 AM
So,when you are faced with life-threatening circumstances,you want to use a "bean-bag rounds"?
You do not comprehend reality and have never fought for your life.
Bad guy goes down,you don't.
Anonymous said...
Well Ladies and Gentlemen, what would the media proclaimed State's Attorney Elect (even though there's an election Nov.8) do (or not do?). If you're masquerading as Kimm Fox - but your name is really Kimisha, you'll maintain your anti-police stance and do NOTHING. After all, your clout Prickwrinkle maintains that there too many blacks in jail as Dart the Fart closes several Divisions of the CC DOC. Our lame duck State's Atty. Alvarez will do nothing in hopes of being placed on the bench by the de facto judge maker AlderCreature Burke.
Vote for Chris Pfannkuche for State's Atty. and tell Prickwrinkle that she can't control the judicial process. If you don't know a judge on the retention ballot is pro police - Vote NO - and tell Burke not to interfere with judicial slate making. A "judicial enema" is needed now more than ever. Make sure that your relatives/friends are registered to vote & they avoid the lines by absentee/early voting.
Hey FOP # 7 - get off your ass and endorse Pfannkuche.
Retired .38 spl P
10/08/2016 01:30:00 AM
####
They endorsed the goof last week. And let him know
It's on the website yesterday if you had taken the time to check before you posted. But if it makes you feel good to rant let it lose. Professional Counseling Services may be another ave for you.
Anita is a useless, gutter dwelling, felon loving, cop hating, piece of crap. The sooner she is completely out of the Shitty of Chicago (not just the SA's office but the entire Shitty) the better.
Same fucking guy fought a suburban cop in the spring, tearing the officer's shoulder up. That officer is still out recovering from surgery. Way to go Cook County Judges!! That scumbag should not have been on the street in the first place.
remember people and folks - there's some in the public who are praising the officers actions (or simple inability to get a round off) because "both are now alive"
that's the mentality of the public ,,,
FUCK TAZERS... i have had 2 incidents were they were not effective! I get so angry when people (bosses & instructors) insist they always work.
Until we get a mayor who is willing to stand up for what is right and defend the rights of those who doing the right thing, this will be the norm. The mayor we have now has no idea what he has done or is doing. He is slowly destroying this city for all those who do the right thing. Does not matter if you live in Englewood, Beverly, Austin, Edgebrook, Humboldt Park, Pilsen, Grand Crossing, or Edison Park, does not matter if your White, Brown, White, or Yellow. Does not matter if your Polish, African, Irish, Mexican, Middle Eastern, or Canadian. Does not matter if your Jewish, Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Muslim, or a Atheiest. If you are leading a productive life, tax paying, and trying to raise a good family, you are being cheated by Mayor Rahm Emmanuel and all those who fall directly under his command.
As long as this administration continues to cater to those who do not lead productive and law abiding lives, just for their votes (can not figure out why else they would possibly cater to law breaking and unproductive members of society) this city will continue to cheat the good citizens of Chicago out of city resources that are being wasted on those who do not care and refuse to help themselves. That means funds and resources wasted on those who don't care, could be spent on those who do. Meaning this city would get a return on its investment. For all the funds and resources spent now, what is the return?
It is about time everyone ask this question of politicians. What return did the tax payers get for their investment. People lets not forget Rahm is investing OUR money. Not his, Madigan, or any alderman. Would you continue to hire a investor who gave you no return?
Instead the return on what Rahm has thrown our money away on is what you see fighting these Police Officers. This is the same guy who is destroying our neighborhoods. There are many more like him throughout the city. Now imagine Mr. or Ms. Citizen your on your way to work, church, neighborhood watch meeting, volunteer at the homeless shelter, or just picking up your children from daycare, this guy struck your vehicle, you get out to see if he is OK and how this crash occurred. Then you become viciously attacked. Or imagine your children are in the vehicle after you picked them up. This is your return investment.
Think before you vote. Think before you ask questions of your politicians. They have convinced us this is race related, it is about good law abiding people and lawless destructive people.
Until we stop investing in those who refuse to obey the law, respect others, and respect themselves, this is what we will continue to see.
the officer's are looking at suspension, demotion, tons of sensitivity & racism re-education, promotionless futures, even possible loss of job, retirement & future...meanwhile, the perp will be lauded & added to the canon list of Saint Hoodz
I no longer feel like a police officer, more like a zoo keeper.
Anonymous Paul Kersey said...
That might explain while neither officer was able to get a handgun into play - one was unconscious and one had a broken thumb, rendering him unable to unsnap and draw.
----------------------------------------------
No back-up gun? No training (AND PRACTICE) of weak-hand shooting? (meaning - if you are right-handed, practice shooting left-handed)
A mere .22 on your "weak side" would have been enough to pull out and empty behind this guy's ear.
Too violent? Not civilized? Too Mafia? Totally not politically correct for a "Big City" police department?
HEY, I lived next to a cop who had to put down a 95-pound girl who was on PCP and she broke his thumb while resisting arrest (about 25 years ago). She showed up in court in a suit and didn't look like she could hurt a fly.
Most people reading this blog - including many on police forces - have no idea what PCP does to someone (As far as their strength) because they have NEVER been up against someone on PCP. If this guy was 300 pounds, no wonder they could not stop him.
Reading about all this, reading the comments, and critiques (not only here but in the media), makes me disappointed that this situation happened. It should NOT have happened.
The reality is, it is going to happen again and you better be better-prepared for it.
Start practicing and carrying for a weak-hand response (if you're lefty, practice righty and vice-versa).
Not to "police standards"? Evidently "police standards" have to be changed when you're in a war zone.
In a war zone, you need to use any weapon and tactic you can to survive.
If cops are supposed to "take a beating" rather than fight, what about unarmed civilians? NOT me.
Sorry but I don't buy off on this "protect the criminal" BS. As I said in a prior post, time to take back the city. The BIG question is, who is going to go on TV to announce this?
---------------------------------------------------------
Try, try just once, if you are a right handed shooter, to draw your gun with your left hand.
Go ahead, give it a try.
Will an oversight commitee review the injuries of the officers? Will an oversight commitee determine that deadly force should have been used? Will this situation reinstate the original correct use of deadly force? Will they study the results from PCP and subhuman strength? Will they do anything besides focus on an offender's skin color? Nobody comments that these oversight commitees are black or how liberals say "white people that are black". Similar logic to "black officers that are considered white". Will they review all incidents in modern times and determine that on only a few of these incidents the police action was incorrect? Seems like they are creating urban chaos. They care less about black on black crime and more about some twisted liberal revenge for 1968 riots.
Trump for President
PCP makes you impervious to pain and about ten times stronger then normal. I have dealt with more then one under the influence of PCP. They are also extremely belligerent and do not listen to anyone. Rodney King ring a bell?
Responded to a call of a man stuck on a fence. Turned out that while under the influence of PCP he had propelled himself into and out of a plate glass window from the second floor of the building and landed on a spiked wrought iron fence. He impaled himself on the right side of his chest and was stuck. We thought he was yelling obscenities because he was in pain. CFD truck and ambulance arrived and dutifully extracted him from the fence. He continued to scream obscenities but now they were directed at CFD. He refused to get into the ambulance and go to the hospital. He walked away. The next day when the effects of PCP wore off he felt the pain and went to the hospital. Don't know the extent of his injuries but they were serious and any normal person would have felt tremendous pain. He did not. They do not listen to anyone. They are basically out of their mind. Good luck trying to reason with them, its not going to happen until the drugs wear off and it might be to late for someone by then.
That officer in 15 did not realize what she was dealing with. No training for handling suspect PCP subjects. I never had it, just learned how from senior officers when the situation arose.
"Most people reading this blog - including many on police forces - have no idea what PCP does to someone (As far as their strength) because they have NEVER been up against someone on PCP. If this guy was 300 pounds, no wonder they could not stop him."
10/08/2016 01:20:00 AM
Picture in a police textbook of a pair of standard steel handcuffs, all twisted up and broken WITH TOOTH MARKS IN THE STEEL. PCP crazy chewed them right off.
ARRR! All blood and spit and tooth stubs, but he's not stopping.
...and now you're getting "bath salts" and "herbal smoking mixtures" sold in the Dirty Little Stores. Naked people exploding in through your living room window in the middle of the night and literally biting your face off.
...and "Excited Delirium" in which the body temperature skyrockets to 105 or more. Brain damage time combined with huge increase in physical strength.
Illegal anabolic steroids are bad too. All pumped up, with an explosive temper.
Just saw a news pic of a woman who'd snorted -- something -- and ended up looking like the St. Louis Arch. Nothing but the top of her head and the bottoms of her feet touching the ground -- completely rigid in one giant muscle spasm, like from tetanus or something.
All this kind of thing is getting worse.
PCP originated in the 1950's as an anesthetic, which is why people who are high on it feel no pain. If I ever was being violently attacked by someone high on this drug, I'm pumping lead into them until they are no longer a threat. Oh, and I wouldn't lose a nights sleep over it either.
I wish they would've just shot this dirty dog.
Anonymous said...
the officer's are looking at suspension, demotion, tons of sensitivity & racism re-education, promotionless futures, even possible loss of job, retirement & future...meanwhile, the perp will be lauded & added to the canon list of Saint Hoodz
10/08/2016 09:49:00 AM
Really? Do tell us more about the officers (not "officer's")and how they're looking at demotion. LOL.
Stop posting on the police blog. You're clueless.
Not a cop: if you can't use a deadly round you might as well have SOME stopping power.
Think.
Speak.
ANONYMOUS said -
.....that's the mentality of the public ,,,
10/08/2016 09:06:00 AM
---------------------------------------
HEY Bonehead!
NEVER say "that's the mentality of the public".
Not everyone is happy about this event and MOST "law-abiding citizens" are asking - Why the FUCK didn't they pop this guy with a couple of .45 cal aspirins into his head?
NEVER say the public is FOR this criminal behavior BS. We are more fed-up than You are.
Start voting these idiots out that YOU have let get re-elected by your lack of voting or voting the SAME party year-after-year.
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
The system is fixed by the Dumbs. God help Chic and
God help our Country. A revolution has begun backed by the
moron in the White House.
MS in NV
Anonymous said...
Not a cop: are youz allowed to use beanbag rounds?
I read there's a company that makes a .357 beanbag.
We could tell your not a cop, thanks!
A real cop would never even think of making such a dumb suggestion.
Why not, you ask? Here's why not: Your in a fight for your life, someone is pummeling your head into the ground, you are about to lose consciousness, and you are suggesting that the officer sticks out his/her index finger, says "wait a minute", then empties their service weapon of real bullets (as if the offender is going to allow this), to load it up with bean bag rounds??? When deadly force is needed, some of the do-gooders would sure like to see the police using OC spray, mallow-wad bullets (cottony-soft like marshmallows!), fur lined handcuffs, etc. But the reality is that stupid ideas will cause more officers to get injured and lose their lives. Officers shouldn't have to second or third-guess their training and own survival instincts, just because they want to appear to be "politically correct". We need our officers to survive and withstand these violent attacks, and we the public should be backing them, period.
Ideas can't get any stupider (is that a word? Maybe to you it is!) than that.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Will an oversight commitee review the injuries of the officers? Will an oversight commitee determine that deadly force should have been used? Will this situation reinstate the original correct use of deadly force? Will they study the results from PCP and subhuman strength? Will they do anything besides focus on an offender's skin color? Nobody comments that these oversight commitees are black or how liberals say "white people that are black". Similar logic to "black officers that are considered white". Will they review all incidents in modern times and determine that on only a few of these incidents the police action was incorrect? Seems like they are creating urban chaos. They care less about black on black crime and more about some twisted liberal revenge for 1968 riots.
Trump for President
10/08/2016 11:53:00 AM
Agreed we need Trump to help restore "Law and order" if it keeps up the way it is going we are doomed in so many ways. But wait rahm and the idiots have a plan lets tax every grocery bag 7 cents:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-shopping-bag-tax-met-20161008-story.html
Nothing like hurting the few and far between food stores right rahm! Your such a goof you make it so easy to not shop here, i live west end of 008 plenty of places to shop close just outside of your crazy idea city! Guess what rahm crew i can take as many grocery bags as i want and I promise you this you raised the garbage tax and so i will make sure the garbage men have jobs and keep filling my cans with the empty bags, please resign and go dance like the ballerina you are!
Umm..... Carol Marin called and said it was just a small amount of PCP so... thank heavens no deadly force was inappropriately invoked
For all the Monday morning real police who just would have dumped on this guy, remember it escalated to a fight. The PO had a broken shooting hand and was engaged in a fight to free his partner. In reality GM may have saved VM's life. If he lit him up the media would have said no weapon was recovered, and I'm guessing stripped, fired, and charged. By the way some chiefs from the sheriffs office came to 15 to review videos, word is they we embarrassed by the sheriff personnel on scene who did nothing. Get rid of the hacks.
"...By the way some chiefs from the sheriffs office came to 15 to review videos, word is they we embarrassed by the sheriff personnel on scene who did nothing."
************************
Let's hope this is true-that Darts "chiefs" will do more than claim embarrassment over this recent incident.
Dart needs to address why two female court services deputies failed to render aid to CPD officers battling for their lives.
To be clear, these were not Sheriff's Police officers. These in question were court service deputies.
Imagine for a moment, the battered into unconsciousness CPD officer on the ground and the battered CPD officer with a broken hand, looking up from the sidewalk at these two deputies-expecting these two deputies to come to their aid...and the split second shock the CPD officers, embroiled in this battle realized as these two deputies never exited that squad car?
Or failed to render aid, failed to engage the violent offender and allowed the offender under the effects of PCP to put these two CPD officers in the hospital!?!
Are you fucking kidding me?
This is a call out to you, Tom Dart to fully investigate the actions of your personnel and hold them accountable for their negligence in the mentioned CPD incident, before the next major incident of this nature occurs again.
(Keep your courts people in the courts would be a good place to start. Enough is enough!)
And it's not Halloween yet, so why does Dart allow non police officers, actually court deps, to wear similar but not actual Sheriff's Police uniforms (costumes?) while operating fully marked cars-the exact same cars operated by Sheriff's Police officers without any differentiation?
You, Tom Dart allowed that change of cars markings to give the impression your wanna-be court deps are Police officers.
You, Tom Dart furthered this fantasy with your bullshit Correctional Officer to Police Officer (C/O to P/O) program.
That didn't work out so well when the State failed to certify those in that clusterfuck program, didn't it Tom?
You Tom Dart continue to keep the general public from applying for Police Officer positions to the Cook County Sheriff's Police Department without having to work the courts or the jail first.
You Tom Dart, who fail to post an accurate, fair, logical or systematic list publically posted of Police Officer candidates from your pool of court deps and Correctional officers only! Same for promotions, too!
You Tom Dart who blocks experienced, qualified, certified, career oriented and currently employed Police officers from other jurisdictions to apply for the position of Police Officer on the CCSPD.
You Tom Dart who sought out and retaliated by demoting a Sheriffs employee found to allegedly run the now defunct CountyGuy blog after threatening termination unless that blog was taken down.
Get the picture now, Tom Dart?
Do the right thing, Tom Dart. Starting with those two court deps playing Police!
The pols better get with the program.
2-3 years ago we came to CHicago every year for a couple of months in the summer/fall and would drop 10-20K having a blast.
No more, the scum are out of control.
I am not the only one that will not make the trip now.
God help you police up there.
The animals are running wild.
Anonymous said...
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
10/08/2016 05:57:00 PM
It's out there...
YOU just haven't found it.
Educate yourself.
Know YOUR weapons and what they
are/aren't capable of.
Know what OTHER weapons are/aren't capable of.
"...why a few of these hadn't resulted in extensive prison time?"
Simple, didn't interrupt the golf course.
Anonymous said...
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
10/08/2016 05:57:00 PM
It's out there...
YOU just haven't found it.
Educate yourself.
Know YOUR weapons and what they
are/aren't capable of.
Know what OTHER weapons are/aren't capable of.
-----------
Alright sparky, enlighten us. I am sure that plenty of folks here would like this information. Hell, my Dillon 650 and 1050 are sitting idle just waiting for your recipe.
Keep in mind that the major ammo companies would be all over a 185 gr .45 acp cartridge that you describe. What you describe would be a game changer, relegating the .40 cartridge to the dumpster. You sure you are not mistaking this fabled round with a 10mm? That number is easily achieved with that round and more.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
10/08/2016 05:57:00 PM
I only wish people like Mr. Hyperbole would do some ballistic research first before they open their stupid mouths. Here are three ammo manufactures that produce 185gr. 45 ACP running at the 1200ft per sec. (Double Tap ammo 1225 ft per sec), (Underwood Ammo 1200 ft per sec), and (Gizzly ammo 1200 ft. per sec). So it looks like Mr. Hyperbole has failed 101 ballistics with his mouth.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
10/08/2016 05:57:00 PM
Hey 5:57PM, you sir do not know about the latest developments in ammo. I carry a load in my 45cal that's running a 1200 feet per second. With the new powders there's even less flash, so you won't lose you night vision. Who ever you are, before you knock someone about something you know little about, do some research first and stop being a dick head.
Not a cop: I see we are not all capable of thinking outside the box. Obviously using deadly force causes you trouble professionally. Personally, too for that matter.
If I was in your position I would rather have a bean bag than nothing. It is probably your second best bet.
Think.
Speak.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
10/08/2016 05:57:00 PM
It's out there...
YOU just haven't found it.
Educate yourself.
Know YOUR weapons and what they
are/aren't capable of.
Know what OTHER weapons are/aren't capable of.
10/09/2016 01:30:00 AM
5:57pm is probably the same arm chair warrior who said its OK to give up your gun.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
10/08/2016 05:57:00 PM
It's out there...
YOU just haven't found it.
Educate yourself.
Know YOUR weapons and what they
are/aren't capable of.
Know what OTHER weapons are/aren't capable of.
10/09/2016 01:30:00 AM
Just a quick point of view from an old retired guy. First off, there are rounds in 45acp that are screaming at 1200fpc. I've got a box of double tap that go that fast. I still use an old mod. 1911 and have shot a few in that gun. About a year ago I called wolf gun springs and asked them what they would recommend in a heavier recoil spring using that ammo. I purchased a 18 pound plus recoil spring and it made a big difference in recoil and recovery. I don't shoot a steady diet of this round in my guns, but their at the top in my magazines. Someone who knows a lot more then me said, the round would be liken to a 41mag in shopping power.
Anonymous said...
Anonymous said...
"Normally a 185 gr.
.45 ACP +P breath mint administered at 1200
feet per second is a cure for stinking
savage thinking like the offender displayed."
Someone, (^^^) failed ballistics 101.... I wish I could find a RELIABLE/SAFE load in .45 that runs that fast. Such a round would be an instant showstopper. But please, carry on with your hyperbole.....
10/08/2016 05:57:00 PM
It's out there...
YOU just haven't found it.
Educate yourself.
Know YOUR weapons and what they
are/aren't capable of.
Know what OTHER weapons are/aren't capable of.
-----------
Alright sparky, enlighten us. I am sure that plenty of folks here would like this information. Hell, my Dillon 650 and 1050 are sitting idle just waiting for your recipe.
Keep in mind that the major ammo companies would be all over a 185 gr .45 acp cartridge that you describe. What you describe would be a game changer, relegating the .40 cartridge to the dumpster. You sure you are not mistaking this fabled round with a 10mm? That number is easily achieved with that round and more.
10/09/2016 08:33:00 AM
Ok Tuffy "Tough-Guy" O'Tool...
Now you're being an insufferable ass.
The ammo in question is commercially available and
has been so for some years now.
It IS safe and reliable btw but you don't
have to take our word for it. Educate yourself.
Hell, since you and your Dillon loading presses
are sitting idle, spend your own time finding out
who the manufacturer is and ask THEM for their
proprietary propellant recipe.
>Snicker!<
Good luck with that, Sparky...
Your obvious wit and charm will go a long way
in that conversation.
You tough, confrontational guys
are a trip...
There's no mistaking it...
It's 185 gr. .45 ACP +P
rated at 1200 FPS.
About a dozen labeled boxes sitting in the vault
so no myth, fable or folklore.
Anita don't give two sh!T$ anymore about the police. Foxx won't give a sh!T when she gets in. Until we get rid of Rahm, Preckwinkle, Madigan, this city and state will continue it's downward spiral.
11:12 am has the ammo company's named and there's this guy who keeps defending a position there isn't 45acp ammo at 1200 fps. This ammo has been out there for some time, and yet Mr. know it all keep flapping his lips about Dillion loading presses and calling someone who is right, sparky. At this very moment I'm looking at a box of Grizzly Ammo in 45cal., that produces 1200 feet per second. Someone else said this is the same guy who was defending having your gun taken by a teen, as something that was the right thing to do. I don't know it that's right, but this guy fits the profile.
Remington golden saber 45 ACP +P 185gr has a velocity of 1140 ft per second so 1200 not out of the realm.
20 year PO /instructor for my Dept here. Just to get the bonafides out of the way, because you folks seen riled up tonight.
Maybe above guy was not polite, but grow a set guys. The reality is that there are but 1-2 manufacturers that support to that claim. Double tap is one but they in essence use a cut down.308 case for their rounds for the increased strength. In reality both rounds have failed to achieve the stated claims in my assessment. The average was 1138 on my chrony. The results were really the same with any 185 jhp in +p+.45. No matter these "low-flash" powders that are the new greatest thing, they don't work as you guys appear to want them too..
So point to the jag bag....... That happens because if we shoot with double tap as we should for training, it will deatroy our 1911s left and right. They were never made for this abuse.
Again boys and YES, GIRLS, suck it up and do a little more listening than parroting.
Hey 09:45, your that same asshole Dillon press fuck. Well guess what, at the Chicago range at old area 4 we tested the Grizzly ammo on a professional chronograph. We used an old S&W 645 5in barrel 45cal and we got an average of 1218fps. I knew it, this guy is a house cat. Please tell us all about 20yrs. PO/instruction of some class room bullshit. And what department is still using a 1911. And if you read what the retired guy said, he up the recoil spring to handle the recoil of the 45acp round pushing 1200fpc. And what is this essence use of cut down 308 cases, which is bullshit and you know it is. Well sir, your assessment is wrong. Your not the only copper reloading or experimenting with different bullets and powders. There's a bunch of guys on the bomb squad that play a way different game then some Po/instructor.
Anonymous said...
20 year PO /instructor for my Dept here. Just to get the bonafides out of the way, because you folks seen riled up tonight.
Maybe above guy was not polite, but grow a set guys. The reality is that there are but 1-2 manufacturers that support to that claim. Double tap is one but they in essence use a cut down.308 case for their rounds for the increased strength. In reality both rounds have failed to achieve the stated claims in my assessment. The average was 1138 on my chrony. The results were really the same with any 185 jhp in +p+.45. No matter these "low-flash" powders that are the new greatest thing, they don't work as you guys appear to want them too..
So point to the jag bag....... That happens because if we shoot with double tap as we should for training, it will deatroy our 1911s left and right. They were never made for this abuse.
Again boys and YES, GIRLS, suck it up and do a little more listening than parroting.
10/10/2016 09:45:00 PM
Jayzus...
Some more unnecessary "testicular verility" being waved around
on this topic.
Ok... Now that everyone has grown a set and sucked it up...
(Gads...)
Nothing "wrong" with using cut down .308 cases.
Strength in the right places is alway a good thing.
Different pistols yield varying chrony results.
Yes, some pistol barrels are "faster,"
and some are more accurate than others.
Eyes wide shut?
"I didn't achieve it, therefore it is un-achievable."
Realm of possibility?
If anyone is lighting off ammo hot enough to "destroy"
a 1911, shame on 'em and let them have the immediate area all
by their lonesome.
>HIGHLY KINETIC SPONTANEOUS SELF-DISASSEMBLY<
There are many options available to avoid battering
your weapon into a pile of pieces.
Doing due diligence IS on the hopefully awake,
aware and very adult owner/operator.
It ain't rocket science.
Let conscience and common sense prevail.
The jag-bag respondent is, well...
A jag-bag.
Just some spirited conversatin'.
Nobody with good common sense
would allow themselves to be riled over this.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
20 year PO /instructor for my Dept here. Just to get the bonafides out of the way, because you folks seen riled up tonight.
Maybe above guy was not polite, but grow a set guys. The reality is that there are but 1-2 manufacturers that support to that claim. Double tap is one but they in essence use a cut down.308 case for their rounds for the increased strength. In reality both rounds have failed to achieve the stated claims in my assessment. The average was 1138 on my chrony. The results were really the same with any 185 jhp in +p+.45. No matter these "low-flash" powders that are the new greatest thing, they don't work as you guys appear to want them too..
So point to the jag bag....... That happens because if we shoot with double tap as we should for training, it will deatroy our 1911s left and right. They were never made for this abuse.
Again boys and YES, GIRLS, suck it up and do a little more listening than parroting.
10/10/2016 09:45:00 PM
The point, is there ammo in 185gr.45acp that is running 1200fps. I looked it up and there is type of 45acp ammo running 1200fps. This above dude is bogus and full of shit. It's not that we are riled over this subject, it's putting up with a person who thinks he knows everything and can't admit he is wrong. When this jerk starts out with I've been an inside guy for 20yrs. and thinks this somehow qualifies him as an expert on everything, now that gets us riled. Anyway, people who display that trait just suck. If someone from Swat or the Bomb Squad expressed their opinion, I think we would sit-up and lessen because of their expertise in the real world and not some classroom hack know it all.
Let put this 45acp debate to bed. I called Double Tab ammo's tech team at 435-238-0525. Spoke with Rhett, and he stated, yes they have ammo in 185gr. 45acp at 1200fpc. He also related they use regular brass for their ammo and not 308 rifle brass cut down. Rhett told me the 45acp brass is industry standard brass. However, he told me the 450smc is a type of 45cal mag. and a 308 cartridge cut down is used because of the high pressures. It was noted, Double Tap does not load the 450smc, therefore has no ammo loaded with a cut down 308. I learned a 1911 with a 5in barrel is used to test their ammo and the 1911 is fitted with a 22-24 pound recoil spring. Lastly, he related this test gun is shot with this ammo and there are no ill effects to the firearm. So there is a 185gr. 45cal acp traveling at 1200fps., Double Tab does not use cut down 308 brass for their 45acp cartridges, and using the proper recoil spring in a 1911 test gun showed no negative effects in wear or damage to the firearm. Hey Dillion Boy, you are so wrong and full of shit.
This Jag-Bag 20yrs inside instructor clown is the typical hobby reloader who follows reloading data, minimum and max data. Anything that's outside his LITTLE world does not exist. There is a 1200 feet per second 45cal round, most of us have known this for years. The companies reloading this round have been using standard brass and I know this because I've compared it to other 45acp brass. I work at the U.S. Marshall's Office in Chicago and have been reloading with a relative when I was seven years old. There's been a lot of changes with propellants, bullets, lubricants, and primers. Most of the ammo companies us propellants you and I can't purchase. The powers are a blended and the chemistry is not published. Burn rates of these components and ignition timing is their little secret and not available in a reloading manual. That's why Jag-Bag is confused, outside his little world is a 1200 foot pec second round in 45cal that does not match anything in his reloading books. The funny thing is the round has been available for a number of years.
After reading all of this about a 45 cal round going 1200 feet a second, I went out and bought a box of 20. Thanks for the info it was an education.
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