Trial Balloon?
Anyone old people (like us) remember the apocryphal Vietnam Era quote, "We had to destroy the village in order to save it"? It probably wasn't actually said, but it made sense in a twisted sort of way to the left and their anti-war efforts.
Someone is suggesting that Groot has an obligation to declare bankruptcy in order to "save" Chicago:
Someone is suggesting that Groot has an obligation to declare bankruptcy in order to "save" Chicago:
- “Bankruptcy” is a dirty word that connotes failure, an ending — the antithesis of opportunity. For many, it’s unthinkable “to go there,” as if it were a dark place, replete with shame. And indeed bankruptcy was once all of that. Those unable to pay their debts were thrown into dark jails to rot until relatives came up with money to pay off their debts.
Chicagoans should know that this barbaric treatment of debtors hasn’t been our law for hundreds of years. In a great innovation that unleashed capitalism, the law turned the tables on creditors and set debtors free. Bankruptcy erases burdensome debt, requiring those who finance and facilitate failure to bear the losses associated with that failure. Bankruptcy means freedom, a new beginning and fresh opportunities. Bankruptcy is a painful process, but it’s pain with gain: a future free of excessive debt.
Mayor Lori Lightfoot revealed that the City of Chicago faces a deficit of nearly $1 billion, driven by debt, including bonds, unfunded pension and retiree health obligations and tort judgments. So far, she’s only talking about increasing taxes on, or cutting services to, Chicagoans, but there’s no upside to that strategy: It offers Chicagoans nothing but more pain. Instead, she should be talking about strategies for restructuring and reducing the city’s debts now, including bankruptcy, before things get even worse.
It's a disturbing article, cold and calculating. Go read it all - it helps to know what all sides are thinking.
Labels: money questions, pension
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
159 Comments:
STUPID FUCK! Go ahead, BK.
You just screwed yourself in the bond market.
Nobody will want your (toilet) paper bonds.
I wonder how tens of thousands of current and retired cops with guns would feel about having their pension stolen by corrupt politicians and the shills/lawyers for Wall Street?
So do you still support the Republican party when they want to strip police and everyone else's pensions? The article's author https://gop.com/leaders/national-committeeman-richard-porter-il
Moody's gonna be fucking thrilled.
They can charge you more for a bad credit rating.
Fucking financial genius from Massilon, Ohio.
How many New Buildings have gone up in the last 10 years and the 100 highrise buildings, Yea the City is Broke.
Trial balloon like Steve Mnuchin suggesting 100 yr Treasury
Bonds. He's down to 50 now. (And he'll NEVER get 50)
"Bankruptcy erases burdensome debt, requiring those who finance and facilitate failure to bear the losses associated with that failure."
How wonderfully socialist!
You screw up. Somebody else pays for it. Of course in the case of Chicago going belly-up, the taxpayers will pay for it either way.
Either through higher taxes or increased costs when the city borrows money/floats bonds post-bankruptcy.
Emanuel had further political aspirations. No way he would declare Chicago bankruptcy. Lightfoot is likely a one-term mayor anyway. What has she got to lose if she trips the trigger on Chicago's rock-bottom strike?
rb
What an asshole. Yeah, declare bankruptcy and ignore the problem these goofy politicians helped create. Why take responsibility when you have no pride and can cry poor? And then they'll expect evil Trump to help them out.
No shit this City is bankrupt. You have a police Commander in 025 that was caught stealing and committing reckless contract violations that wasted even more money. He's recommended to be fired by the Inspector General and nothing happens. Let that sink in. The city of Chicago is content to let a known corrupt Commander stay in a position of power, then cry poor about debt.
Maybe the Federal Government should step in and take over before something worse happens. This is getting ridiculous how openly stupid and corrupt our city has become.
Bankruptcy will NEVER happen....why? Well, that would mean Groot would have to open the books. TIFF money, crooked contracts, hell, the CPS books alone would send people to prison. Bankruptcy would be like a Chicago casino and a magical unicorn, a fantasy!!!!
Will there be “tar and feather” in the works for those who fail?
I have two questions. 1) Why can't TIF funds (allegedly Two Billion) be used to plug the pension and other holes? 2) When Rahm went full-on "Infrastructure Trust" to do renovations at O'Hare and on other public assets, did making this a Trust thing shield these assets from being sold for city solvency? Why not sell the Water System, Garbage collection? Ok that's like Four questions....Why not lease them for 50 years.
"Mayor Lori Lightfoot revealed that the City of Chicago faces a deficit of nearly $1 billion, driven by debt, including bonds, unfunded pension and retiree health" obligations and tort judgments."
and you still vote democrat why?
I hate to tell you. Next mayoral election you are going to get the same two choices.
A clusterfuck.
A Classic Clusterfuck.
Typical democrat clusterfuck.
On one side of the scale:
Relatively mildly honest employees, who have, in most ways, earned their pensions as promised.
Substantially honest employees who have well earned their pensions as promised.
Then there is the other side of the scale (I shall be brief, and, thus, refrain from the use of the abundant perjoritives these are worthy of):
Bloated pension benefits matching, or exceeding, the bloated natures of the hogs, of so many varieties as to induce retching in the honest human's core.
See.
Brief.
Thus, the taxpayers are faced with this:
Demand bankruptcy as only effective means to not be raped, no matter the results to pensions, or abandon this corrupted beyond survival region.
To stay and, absent rational to taxpayers actions, be raped or to leave this democrat clusterfuck to those who clusterfucked it.
Not just a corrupted city problem.
Not just a corrupted county problem.
Not even just a corrupted state problem.
Not a problem at all to those states not corrupted by democrat clusterfucking.
Our lake is a Great One.
The areas of our state outside the boundaries of corrupted county are relatively benign, but for the corruption of the state government by the corrupted county of abundant democrat clusterfuckers.
The success of our city in attracting, over a century, the multitudes of humans has been both our boon and our bane.
Five solid generations of many solid families have survived, endured and prospered, even with the corruptions, until the last two of the five found ourselves with richie the maggot as mayor.
This was the beginning of the total clusterfucking.
No coincidence that the madigan clusterfuck clan emerged as dominant at this same time.
So.
Here we are and the Piper is playing his tune.
We have a river......
Wirepoints.org is the SCC of the Illinois financial world. Mendoza is a box of rocks politician who has no grasp of the dire financial mess Illinois and Chicago are in. She and her flunkies simply try to put a happy face on a pile of shit. There is no taxing or cutting our way out of the mess that these corrupt slobs have perpetrated on everyone.
Not much we can do if she decides to try it and gets legislature behind her.
One thing I think FLOP should ask for in this contract (which wouldn't cost the city anything) is a 401k in addition to our current 457b.
I understand not all are in the same situation but I'm maxed on deferred even with the 50 and over provision. The law was changed in 2001 so that municipalities can offer employees BOTH a 457b AND a 401k and you can max on BOTH in the same year. NYPD has both. I'm sure other departments do also.
Yes I know the city won't match but with this big of a pension deficit I want to be prepared just in case. I'm sure Nationwide would love to run it and they do administer 401k's. At least you are paying less tax at the end of each year. How about it FLOP?
Chicago Bankruptcy = Higher Taxes = No Pension
Of course they are going to raise your taxes before bankruptcy idiots...
"Chicago’s population is already shrinking, which is powerful evidence that the city is already taxing too much for too little service: for too many residents and potential residents, the cost imposed to live here now exceeds Chicago’s many benefits, and so Chicago shrinks while dozens of other cities grow. As population shrinks, property values fall, increasing the burden of future expected taxes, driving the population and property values down even further. Increasing taxes further only exacerbates this cycle of failure."
The death spiral. Look to Detroit. They are just as Democrat, just as Corrupt, and they are about twenty years ahead of Chicago.
This is Chicago's future.
Contracts can be revised or voided in Bankruptcy.
All kinds of contracts.
Pensions too.
Bankruptcy will Fill the Police Pension Fund!
/sarc
Constitution of the State of Illinois:
"Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or
any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be anenforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which
shall not be diminished or impaired."
See: Shall not be infringed
Attorney/RNC Chair blowing smoke up Lil' Larry's trousers...his firm must specialize in Bankrupcy.
Pensions were created to take care of soldiers's widows should they perish on duty. Sounds reasonable enough.
Pensions now are lotto tickets for some in Government jobs. Illinois pays a former HS Super $330,000/ year;Some Univ Deans cool half Million.
My folks, lifetime Chicagoans in their 80's, just had their property tax hit $19k. Closing next week on the sale of their home. They wanted to die in that house, not die because of the taxes on something they supposedly 'own.
They could start a bake sale and start selling stuff, museums,airports, schools.
Trial this..
You give an ultimatum to a do-nothing kid that he learns
something or moves out. As usual, the kid wants something short
and easy. So you settle on a 2-yr associate degree in photography
at a community college for about $6K total. Kid graduates and
tells you a wedding can be shot on the newest, most expensive
iPhone. Needs $1,200 extra.
You notice the Apple ad online. Phone number, plus "7x24".
Since when did 24/7 become "7x24"?
You ponder the meaning of life and pray silently.
Lori needs to be regressed by a hypnotherapist
The city will not declare bankruptcy because it has too many assets namely 2 big ones.....Ohare and Midway airports. How many billions are just those two worth??? I'd love to see them explain to a judge why those two have not been liquidated. Not gonna happen.
That was written by Richard Porter, a Chicao lawyer
and delegate to the RNC. So I don't know if he's serious
or trying to stir up trouble. Why take his word that this
stuff will happen?
We'll just have to wait to see what happens.
Like the sophisticated talk show callers say,
"I'll take my answer off the air."
Municipal Bonds are a Safe, Tax Free investment.
If you still have any of these bonds in your portfolio, you are likely to take a haircut all the way doen to your knees. Sell now while there are still suckers and rubes available.
It is the only hope to save the city. City cannot afford the ridicules pension promises. Sorry but the truth is your way over promised on your pensions. The same is true for all city and CPS workers. The city needs to put everyone on a 401 type system and get free from the pension mess. Same applies to state government as well. You cannot tax your way out of current problem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, city is now broke again! No money, oh contract time. Same old story now bankrupt! But the 1 billon for Lincoln village must go on! Yes declare bankruptcy and open books! Let's see what's in TIF funds and when and where money went! Impress us shore up pensions with TIF money's! New mayor, same as the old mayor! Get a New Democratic playbook!
Yes cuts need to be made in city financial problems. Deep cuts including pension obligations. Only way to achieve the pension issue is to declare bankruptcy. The Detroit model worked for Detroit and will work for Chicago. This pension problem is a classic case of there is no free lunch. Sorry folks you and all itsy workers were over promised and under charged. Think about it at 6% contribution in twenty years you will have contributed a year and a half full salary to fund and at thirty years 3 years of full salary. After 30 you retire and collect 25-35 years of full salary plus I believe a COLA raise every year. The math just doesn't work. The taxpayers cannot afford your burden any longer. Sorry but those ate the facts of the matter.
Keep taxing... keep taxing... eventually you will meet tax = expenditures... or go Soviet Union
It will never happen as she is hiding a Billion dollars in TIF funds. Don’t listen to her lies, it is all lies. She is an absolute failure in every aspect, except for talking when she should keep her mouth shut. Chicago will never open the books as it will all be exposed, cannot happen.
If the city wants to eliminate pensions, it can. It will be painful, but it can.
First, all new hires in all city agencies are not put in the pension system, but instead into a 401K
Current employees putting into their pension will continue to do so until they retire
Over the next 60 years or so, the city will continue to fund pension obligations until the last pension employee or their spouse passes away.
After the last pension recipient passes away, the city is free of the pension system.
This is the only real solution
Back when Rahm was still the mayor I put a petition on the White House petition site asking the president to use his executive power to amend the bankruptcy law regarding municipal bankruptcy so that first responders pensions would be treated as a "secured bond" this would mean if the city did go into bankruptcy first responders pension would be first in line to be paid at full value.This would also have the effect of forcing funding because nobody would lend the city money unless those obligation were funded. It cost nothing to post a petition but getting the needed signatures depends on how many people are interested, this depends on getting the word out,, I sent numerous Emails to FOP, Mr Graham and others asking them to inform the membership of this effort with no response. Remember FOP supported Rahms idea of kicking the can down the road ,putting off proper funding and in the process increasing the needed funding by 50% (if of course the funds investments increased by an unlikely percentage) Retired Chicago Police Association was likewise not interested in so informing the membership. If a petition gets enough signatures it will get a formal response due to the unwillingness of our representative to inform membership the petition only got a few hundred signatures and went nowhere, the new changes in FOP bylaws are part of a continuing effort to marginalize retires and their interests, like I have said before nobody in this town has your back
Interesting article but there is one "little" item that everyone seems to be forgetting. In a bankruptcy filing "all" assets must be revealed. That would mean that the city would have to finally make public how much money has been secreted away in their TIF Fund Account. I doubt you'll see that happen.
Maybe they should focus on a) supporting ONLY American and Chicago LEGAL CITIZENS; b) cut costs (novel idea, sadly outside comprehension); c) bring in jobs, which equals revenue; and d) teach the ferals how to behave with real consequenses.
Enacting even 1 of the above would significantly reduce the debt. Enacting all, especially b, would return shitcago solvency. Trim the fat stsrting with the groot.
Long as those tif's have money & are being funded the city isn't broke!
The person who made the article think like a GHETTO RAT.
IF you dont own anything and have no saving or assets bankruptcy the trick.
NOW ask yourself what does the city own?
THE BEAN?
Soldiers field?
Miles of lake front land?
Vacant school buildings in prime locations?
Navy PIER selling that buy itself with actually be profitable?
DEBTORS get 1st crack at all the goodies
Nonexempt property is handled. If you have any nonexempt property, the trustee will decide whether it's worth seizing and selling, to distribute to your creditors. You may be able to negotiate with the trustee to keep certain nonexempt property if you can come up with enough cash or are willing to give up exempt property instead.
Secured debts are dealt with. If you have secured debts -- debts that are backed by collateral, which the creditor has the right to take if you default -- you must give the property back, redeem it (by paying the creditor what it's worth), or reaffirm the debt (agree that you will still owe it after your bankruptcy case is over). If you reaffirm any debts and are not represented by a lawyer, you will have to attend a reaffirmation hearing before the judge. (To learn more, see the articles on secured debts in Your Debts in Chapter 7 Bankruptcy.)
OH and those bank will never give you a reasonable loan again.
No way it could happen. The city would be forced to sell off its assets. Police cars, fire trucks, garbage trucks, snow plows, ohare airport, etc.... How much would we get for " the groot " at auction.
Money to pay out shitheads for their bullshit lawsuits, but no money to pay the bills. If the jackass aldermen didn't give the ok to sell off the city assets the city would be fine. I can only imagine how their private finances are. The Daley's, Rhamm, and Groot really fucked up a beautiful city. Keep voting Democratic and this is what happens. TRUMP 2020
The problem is that elected officials will come out of bankruptcy with the same bad habits. Wasteful spending, throwing money they don't have at various groups to get elected, etc will continue. Chicago will retain a high tax, soak the rich, anti-growth ruling class. The schools will still suck, the streets will remain unsafe, but you will be able to gamble and get high. A democratic vision of the future.
But we got money for Daley and Rham’s friends and donors. What we really need is a forensic audit of the TIF funds followed by federal indictments of Daley, Rham and the Democratic Party. If they can indict Burke on that flimsy bullshit why can’t they do the other crooks who did it for political donations?
“You want money, what kind of terrorists are you?!” “Who said we were terrorists?” -Hans Gruber (Die Hard villain)
Wouldn’t it be laughable if it turns out this whole war on the police— fake news, BLM, bogus DOJ report that found a ‘pattern’ without citing a single statistic- and now this series of speeches, opeds, and offhand comments by ‘experts’ on CNN who fail to mention the bloated patronage system and corruption that led to the debt, and overall all this nonsense was just to lay the groundwork to cancel out or pensions?? Post-9/11 people respected the police too much, but now no one will stop this heist?
Can you imagine what might happen to us as individuals if we just stopped paying our bills, if when every April 15th rolled around we just said "fuck it"? And did that for about 20 plus years? Do any of us believe that stiffing your mortgage lender, the utility companies, your car payments and other financial obligations that for years have been part of our monthly routine. And yet our taxes, funding schools we have no stake in, capital projects that are financed with TIF funds but have yielded to the personal whims of favored wards, keep dipping into our pockets and we pay, pay, pay.
So after a few decades, when the deadbeat city planners get called to task, they turn to a sympathetic media who present their case that we're greedy employees, having the audacity to ask for cost of living increases to go along with the rising costs of life in the city which has been propelled by insane social entitlement programs for those who haven't any skin in the game.
These lying, pandering creeps got us here, year after year, promise after promise, and then when it all goes to shit, they point the finger at us, the source of the revenue they've been pissing away for decades. Is there something wrong with this picture?
driven by debt, including bonds, unfunded pension and retiree health obligations
No mention of all the free shit given away driving up debt.
They will do everything in their power to avoid it. Bankruptcy judge is all powerful in their decisions. Opening up the TIF and the rest of the nonsense could be a real eye opener.
Written by a Chicago Republican, and nothing but an attempt to promote a way out that protects property values.
The City of Chicago is not insolvent.
It has the ability to raise real estate and sales taxes.
No bankruptcy judge will believe the city cannot tax itself out of this.
>>>>> “Bankruptcy” is a dirty word that connotes failure, an ending — the antithesis of opportunity. For many, it’s unthinkable “to go there,” as if it were a dark place, replete with shame. <<<<<
It's a dark place alrighty, as someone famous once said... Here be Dragons ('Hic Sunt Dracones').
ps: Everyone who had 'Chicago' in the; 'Bankrupty after Detriot Pool' please see the Doorman on your way out to collect your Winnings.
[Go Bears!] ;-)
If this disaster would occur politicians will be marked people.
You fuck with CPD, CFD etc’s pensions then you’re looking for major trouble.
It to declare that you don't have money to pay your obligations, when you're giving millions to Lincoln Yards and other pet projects. Just suspend tifs and use that money to shore up pensions. What's the big deal. No slush fund for a few years
I believe they will try something to get the city out of its Obligation to pay us our retirement benefits, I think they are going to try to amend the constitution or to let Chicago declare bankruptcy however that works,buckle up boys and girls!
Debtors prisons should be brought back but only for political assholes who mismanage. Hold these socialist totalitarian bastards responsible, and confiscate their estates to compensate as much as possible. That goes for their spouses, offspring, and business cronies. Oh hell, just RICO the demorat party.
What retiree health obligations, those were taken already 0
Can't declare bankruptcy. Too much revenue coming and the court would make you account for every dollar. On top of this the court would ask to cut any needless spending and would then define what is needless.You give up alot of financial power to the court in a bankruptcy.
Chicago has plenty of money....we have a tremendous revenue stream. It's just that we have a spending problem. Stop funding free shit. Give me a pen and an hour and I'll cut the budget a billion dollars and the City will run just fine.
9-17-2019: Start of 74th UN General Assembly in NYC.
The UN Gods have punished the United States for not
paying dues in full (Canada, for example, has paid up).
So Lori is being punished by the UN, if only indirectly.
Sanctuary cities? That's sort of like when the southern
states broke away from the Union. From a little patch
of grass with dandelions in Massilon, Ohio to the UN.
You've come a long way, baby. Don't tilt at windmills.
Bankruptcy won't fix anything unless the behavior that caused the debts gets changes.
The chances of that happening are slim, fat, little, or none.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
What dolt will lend money to the City of Chicago?
Or Cook County?
Or the State of Illinois?
Not a trial balloon. Not a question of if but when. They can't figure out a way to raise 850 million much less 20some BILLION. Get used to the idea of a reduced pension and start making plans now. Best choice is get out while you can. Bankruptcy will have a lot of unintended consequences. People having leave the city because their reduced pension no longer covers the high cost of living in the city. This will cause a glut of housing on market at one time whit will lower the values for all. That will necessitate a lowering of all homes values which will mean less real estate tax monies collected. That in turn will cause the typical Democratic response, sorry we have to raise your taxes and fees again. Couple all this with the SJW SECTION 8 HOUSING IN ALL NEIGHBORHOODS, your current way of live is doomed. This is only the tip of the bankruptcy iceberg coming your way. It will not be pretty but it is inevitable.
I read about Detroit's bankruptcy. Active employees are fine and retirees still get a pension. The retired just get a smaller yearly COLA. If a city dependent on one industry can survive, Chicago can too.
Let's be clear, bankruptcy is not a disease, it is the cure.
In order to file for bankruptcy, you must be insolvent. Insolvency is the inability to pay one's bills as they come due. With a $838 MIL budget deficit, Chicago is indeed insolvent. As has been observed multiple times over at Wirepoints dot com, the problem is so large that NO AMOUNT of tax increases and NO AMOUNT of cost cutting can solve the problem. It really is that bad.
Bankruptcy is really just a financial reorganization. The bills all get put in 3 piles, 1) those that will be paid in full, 2) those that will be deemed settled for less than a dollar on the dollar, and 3) those that get nothing. That might seem harsh, but the alternative is worse.
Left as it is, Chicago's financial condition has entered an ever tightening death spiral. Each day that goes by causes liabilities to increase, at an increasing rate. This is simply, and mathematically, unsustainable. The police and fire pensions are only a few short years from running out of money. And what happens then? Do we start laying off policemen and selling off fire trucks to pay the bills? If you think that Dude, Inc is bad now, wait until that happens.
And what about Lightfoot. Should she be embarrassed? No. She just had the misfortune to come on board just as the City was 100 yards out, headed full steam for the iceberg. Its like cigarettes and lung cancer. Its not the cigs you smoked today or yesterday that gave caused the cancer, its the 20 years worth of cigarettes that caused the cancer. And so it is with Chicago. It is the 20+ years of underfunding that has caused the problem.
The budget is $9000 Mil. The deficit is $838 MIL. Something as simple as a 10% across the board cut could at least solve this years problem. Might that involve some pain, like layoffs? Yes, but every solution will involve pain. Get used to it.
And remember, if Lori doesn't file for bankruptcy, THE INSOLVENCY WILL STILL BE THERE. Sure, she could try to address it on her own, but as we all saw from her recent State of the City address, SHE HAS NO PLAN. At least not yet.
Lori can be seen as the saviour if she advocates for bankruptcy. It's time she wakes up to that.
This should coma as no surprise if you have been paying any attention at all. From all I read here all your concerns are your pensions, you had better be concerned about your next check bouncing. Lower pensions have been a forgone conclusion for the last 10 years. State and city cannot afford their promises. Sorry you lose. The state constitution will be opened and your pension promise will be lowered. Hey you kept these fools in power for the last 90+ years now your all going to suffer the result of those votes. The Golden Goose is dead and being replaced with a dead duck
Bankruptcy would never work in Chicago because they’d still have the dirty criminal rats running the city and stealing and misappropriating the money. It’s in the blood of the politicians, just like heroin is in the veins of addicts. A heroin addict would have a better chance of cleaning up than the Chicago politicians.
Chicago’s political corruption is a never ending cycle. The political rats and roaches multiply faster than they can be eradicated.. why large and powerful corporations choose to stay there is mind boggling.
There’s lessons to be learned. Just take a look at what happened to the International Harvester (IH) company whe union and corporate management got sideways. Pensions went out the window for tens of thousands of folks.
It might can be fixed, but lots of politians will need to be dealt with.
We are doomed.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bankruptcy will NEVER happen....why? Well, that would mean Groot would have to open the books. TIFF money, crooked contracts, hell, the CPS books alone would send people to prison. Bankruptcy would be like a Chicago casino and a magical unicorn, a fantasy!!!!
9/15/2019 12:36:00 AM
Exactly!
Re: ClusterXXXX
Trump knows what's going on in Chicago. He's keeping
an eye on it. The worse it gets, the better for him in 2020.
He's done many things. Right now he's a rope salesman.
And prices are low.
Clueless. She has no idea how to fix anything.
But, if she punts and goes to the Illinois legislature for help, there is no doubt that it will pass the legislation to permit municipal bankruptcy. There is no Republican party in Illinois to speak of, so legislators will just do what Madigan tells them. Once the law is passed, expect not only Chicago, but a number of other corrupt Illinois cities to file for bankruptcy. Retirees and pension participants can look forward to big cuts in benefits.
Keep voting Democrat, chumps.
The Daley-Emanuel-Lightweight death spiral accelerates.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Back when Rahm was still the mayor I put a petition on the White House petition site asking the president to use his executive power to amend the bankruptcy law regarding municipal bankruptcy so that first responders pensions would be treated as a "secured bond" this would mean if the city did go into bankruptcy first responders pension would be first in line to be paid at full value.
--- snip ---
Please share the link and everyone write President Trump. This is a great FU to the city. They've stolen the pension funds all these years. Let the thieves sweat a while.
"That was written by Richard Porter, a Chicao lawyer
and delegate to the RNC. So I don't know if he's serious
or trying to stir up trouble. Why take his word that this
stuff will happen?
9/15/2019 03:39:00 AM"
Stir up trouble???
Are you fucking retarded???
Trouble is being fucking shoved down our throats, up our asses and you are that trouble.
Fucking democrats.
Always with the graft.
The end around on amending the state constitution is in progress. Taking away our defined pension benefits will be Job #1 for the Dems come constitutional convention time. Bank on this statement, because the threat is very real.
Math doesn't lie . The debt Chicago has can't be paid back with weed , gambling and tripling taxes its insurmountable. Bankruptcy is really the only answer . Why do you think she hired the Detroit era bankruptcy specialist? Now study Detroit with its lack of assets and its bankruptcy, cops didnt do bad at all in that bankruptcy. The can has been kicked for 30 years by DEMOCRATS, it's over.
Bankruptcy? Or be stubborn and wait for the day when checks don't get mailed out and you are retired .
Shitcago is not going to declare bankruptcy.
Why?
Because too many politically connected banks and the politically connected law firms hired by them kissed too much ads to get in on the house of cards financing deals...and there is NO way they are going to allow bankruptcy to derail that lucrative gravy train and leave them holding the bag.
So, chumbalones, get used to higher taxes!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
So do you still support the Republican party when they want to strip police and everyone else's pensions? The article's author https://gop.com/leaders/national-committeeman-richard-porter-il
9/15/2019 12:19:00 AM
Yeah, lot of confused people here. Not a lot of financial acumen on display. Hate the Democrats all you like but the Republicans are not your friends.
Like the old Timers said every good thing sometimes comes to a END.
Anonymous said...
Yes cuts need to be made in city financial problems. Deep cuts including pension obligations. Only way to achieve the pension issue is to declare bankruptcy. The Detroit model worked for Detroit and will work for Chicago. This pension problem is a classic case of there is no free lunch. Sorry folks you and all itsy workers were over promised and under charged. Think about it at 6% contribution in twenty years you will have contributed a year and a half full salary to fund and at thirty years 3 years of full salary. After 30 you retire and collect 25-35 years of full salary plus I believe a COLA raise every year. The math just doesn't work. The taxpayers cannot afford your burden any longer. Sorry but those ate the facts of the matter.
9/15/2019 04:21:00 AM
So how are you supposed to retire with a 401scam then?
Anonymous said...
Not much we can do if she decides to try it and gets legislature behind her.
One thing I think FLOP should ask for in this contract (which wouldn't cost the city anything) is a 401k in addition to our current 457b.
I understand not all are in the same situation but I'm maxed on deferred even with the 50 and over provision. The law was changed in 2001 so that municipalities can offer employees BOTH a 457b AND a 401k and you can max on BOTH in the same year. NYPD has both. I'm sure other departments do also.
Yes I know the city won't match but with this big of a pension deficit I want to be prepared just in case. I'm sure Nationwide would love to run it and they do administer 401k's. At least you are paying less tax at the end of each year. How about it FLOP?
9/15/2019 01:32:00 AM
Hard to contribute to a 401scam when you need the money now how will I pay for private schools? That was the whole point of the pension.
"Maybe the Federal Government should step in..." This was said in a post above AFTER stating how bad filing BK would be. Do you not understand that filing BK would effectively put a federal court judge in charge of Chicago finances.
Assets minus liabilities reveal net worth.
Thus endeth the lesson.
Pensions now are lotto tickets for some in Government jobs. Illinois pays a former HS Super $330,000/ year;Some Univ Deans cool half Million.
It is these kinds of pensions that are bankrupting the pension funds! You are supposed to retire with dignity not live like a king.
Retired CFD..Has any CPD retired gotten notice of a seminar for all retirees? CFD pension fund is holding 2 seminars next month specifically related to " funding issues".. Interesting as it coincides with the above article, and an op-ed in the slum-times today supporting an income tax on pensions. Gathering clouds ?
There is no COLA you stupid fucks who say there is. It’s a non compounding rate that is established after you turn 55 that never changes. Assholes with all the answers don’t even have the fucking facts. Fuck you buy me out. I’m sure we can reach an agreement. Sell the fucking piece of shot bean and buy out all current retirees. You declare bankruptcy you sell all your assets. I imagine Ohare and Midway and the lake front have some value. What about the river walk. Hmm. What else can we sell. Navy pier.
Go ahead cut pensions you are going to soon see the first generation of seniors in poverty forced to live with their children or small one bedroom apartments barely getting by on social security.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Interesting article but there is one "little" item that everyone seems to be forgetting. In a bankruptcy filing "all" assets must be revealed. That would mean that the city would have to finally make public how much money has been secreted away in their TIF Fund Account. I doubt you'll see that happen.
9/15/2019 05:53:00 AM
Exactly correct,plus they will have list all assets owned and then begin selling off everything that they can.Why doe we again as stated many times have a way over bloated exempt rank structure on CPD? why captains another huge pension diabolical all appointed due to clut with a no show no work [position? Detroit when it went bankrupt police and fire pensions:
The pensions of police and firefighters weren't cut but an annual 2.25 percent cost-of-living adjustment was reduced to about 1 percent.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2018/07/18/detroit-bankruptcy-retirees-reaction/783828002/
* We have airports to sell and Lori is letting the connected contractors get over 9 billion in O'Hare expansion money when this is not needed as usual its the "Chicago way!" How many buildings to sell, as a matter of fact why does the non-producing taxpayer sucking money machine the cps have huge buildings downtown? why not build this or rent out space in englewood like they are doing to fleet management this way the overpaid clowns could see their 'children," and how well they are being raised with their liberal instruction.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Interesting article but there is one "little" item that everyone seems to be forgetting. In a bankruptcy filing "all" assets must be revealed. That would mean that the city would have to finally make public how much money has been secreted away in their TIF Fund Account. I doubt you'll see that happen.
9/15/2019 05:53:00 AM
What if previous administrations have already spent / squandered that TIF money. We do not know if there is ANY money in those funds.
O.K. We know Groot is Fredo.
Question is, who is The Michael?
The absence of cold and calculating is what created this mess. Cold and calculating is what is needed if the ship is to be saved. Politicians are almost all short term thinkers because they have to be to keep their constituencies happy. Ten or twenty years in the future doesn't exist in their thinking. The US as a whole is heading in the same direction.
Do your best to make good, conservative financial decisions and get hammered anyway with the subprime mortgage triggered recession. Say what you will, we are like sea grass, leaning this way as the tide comes in and that way as it goes out.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Will there be “tar and feather” in the works for those who fail?
9/15/2019 12:44:00 AM
If they screw us on our pensions, it may be rope and lamp post.
There’s countless ways the city can cut costs and fix the financial crisis. STOP SPENDING AND WASTING MONEY for starters. CPS is easily the biggest drain on Chicago’s finances. Tell the teachers union to pound sand or fire them. Start from scratch. Next start making cuts at the top of all departments especially the CPD. So much overlap with countless bosses doing the same job. No more take home cars for anyone too. There’s lots of ways to fix things. Also build a downtown casino!
I will repeat: Chicago has money to freely hand out to the entitlement leeches and wealthy developers, but not to honor existing debt. This is all a court should have to know. How can one be bankrupt and give TIF money and entitlement money away so freely?
Deadbeat dependents are draining revenues faster than ever since Sanctuary City was formed during the Shortshanks era.
Busing the deadbeats out to California, they have room now as they’re busing them out to Texas and Washington.
GrootFoot is moving to spend more on community reinvestment (novel idea that nobody ever tried before since The Chicago Fire I hear) and also millions on the 40 Year Failure called CPS.
The article is of little value and hardly worth a read.
The doomsday commentary, RealClear fails to mention a couple points.
What is the Real-Clear amount of city debt?
Who are these “civic leaders” suggesting bankruptcy?
What type of bankruptcy are they (or RC) suggesting?
Furthermore called LightLoafer a non-Machine product even though sHe has collected a few years worth of the City payroll during Shortshanks appointments.
Hog wash.
RealClear should just stick to predicting Lunch Bucket Joe Biden’s landslide 2020 Presidential victory.
For the record, RC only missed Crooked Hillary’s electoral tally victory prediction by 46 electoral votes, losing to Donald J Trump 304 to 227.
The bankruptcy route would have to be under Chapter 9.
No an easy task.
Chicago Inc. would find it difficult just to shop for a US Judge to oversee the process, giving the fact of current corruption cases before the Fed right now. The new anointment of Anne Burke IL Supreme Justice seems even more suspicious now.
Also was the sudden jump in mayoral candidacy of ShortShanks 3.0...to protect those city ledgers or load up the spending deals.
Think of all the disclosures associated with bankruptcy. Anyone believe the City of ShortShanks has real ledgers?
Then there an issue of Trustee/Examiner...who do we have in the dependable Cook County or IL to do that task, Prickwrinkle,Kwamie?
Creditors claims, stays of business activity and asset liquidation were also not addressed in that short RC doomsday commentary.
There will never be a total Out of Business Chap. 7 or Reorganization Chap. 11. happening.
Chap 7 eliminates all debt, though lots of banks, funds obligated already to getting their returns paid up first.
Chap 11 means total reorganization, which likely includes mayor and executive staff.
Elected office could be spared, who knows.
If bankruptcy were easy and a no-questions-asked rubber stamp, it would have been done years ago.
Crying poor mouth all the while spending millions every day on pet projects to deadbeat entitlements is tradition here.
Maybe the point of RC was to get the conversation going to highlight The120 Day Mayor LightLoafer’s ineptitude and move the voter base to more conservative views.
OneTerm LarryLightLoafer is highly possible.
Let’s hope Paul Vallas keeps us in mind, I’d expect Gov Quinn to re-up an some effort too.
Chicagoans have gotten their "kick in the ass" by Groot going public announcing the $838M deficit. The budget shortfall was open, notoriously embarrassing for the Democrats and the Lori is stuck with a bag of financial debt. This hot mess was created by Daley and Rahm (the unmentionables). Even Little Lori, the supposed reformer, in her budget speech to Chicagoans did not mentioned Daley or Rahm by name. No sir she'll never mention them by name. She doesn't have the stones literally or figuratively to do it.
If the city goes for bankruptcy it will be forced to open the books under federal purview and therefore subject Daley, Rahm and others to possible financials crimes and mismanagement. The Democrats would never stand for it. She's going to raise all kinds of taxes and do some topical cutting to city services, overtime and blah, blah, balh.
Lori and the Democrats are screwing the residents again. Chicagoans voted for Democrats for all these years and you expected what? Safe streets and good government.
Let this mess of a city collapse.
TIF TIF TIF. Use them. City will not declare BK because they have to disclose all their assets. TIF funds included. It’s like keeping a balance On Your credit card when you have the cash in a 0% interest account. City will continue to cry poor making us the villians.
@ 9/15/2019 04:21:00 AM
"Think about it at 6% contribution" WRONG.
"in twenty years you will have contributed a year and a half full salary to fund" WRONG. you're ignoring the city's contribution(tho it's not as much as it should be).
"After 30 you retire and collect 25-35 years of full salary" -- WRONG. Max is 75%, and the number of officers maxing out has been falling for years.
Whether you like it or not, this "burden" is the City's OBLIGATION.
This is so reminiscent of Detroit, at the very end. Detroit elected Kwame to steal what little meat was on the bone. Chicago elected Groot for the same reason. I've yet to hear a valid reason for remaining in Chicago.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I wonder how tens of thousands of current and retired cops with guns would feel about having their pension stolen by corrupt politicians and the shills/lawyers for Wall Street?
Been saying that for years, these fucking politicians or at least most of them have been raping the us economy for decades. We need another civil war or revolution against these fuckin vermin and their puppets. Ladies and Gentlemen look what is going on abroad the world, same shit. Look how these vermin are disarming law abiding citizens in America instead of putting harsher sentences for the criminals, their disarming us little by little with more and more gun restrictions. Politicians and their puppets are even going so far to disarm the police saying that we look to intimidating toward their constituents (voters). Sorry I can keep going and going, but the point is, these fucken politicos in Illinois are close to taking our earned pensions away just like they stripped the retirees of their medical. Now, at least for most of us we got to work till medicare kicks in and the politicos in the capital are trying and crying that there is no more money to give. WTF is going on, I for one did not sigh up for this shithole that the politicos created and worst of all these fuckin politicos are retiring millionaires from doing shit while in office.God Bless....
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bankruptcy will NEVER happen....why? Well, that would mean Groot would have to open the books. TIFF money, crooked contracts, hell, the CPS books alone would send people to prison. Bankruptcy would be like a Chicago casino and a magical unicorn, a fantasy!!!!
9/15/2019 12:36:00 AM
The thing about “opening the books” is that will probably be corrupt too. Chicago is so corrupt, dirty and dishonest that there will probably be lying involving “the books.” Nothing is real in corrupt Chicago. They can make anything happen.
Anonymous said...
Constitution of the State of Illinois:
"Membership in any pension or retirement system of the State, any unit of local government or school district, or
any agency or instrumentality thereof, shall be an enforceable contractual relationship, the benefits of which
shall not be diminished or impaired."
See: Shall not be infringed
Just like the Constitution of the United States states:
"... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The city of Chicago is really enforcing this one, isn't it?
Better start laying people off before you contrmplate bankruptcy. Every Department has FAT.
After the last pension recipient passes away, the city is free of the pension system.
This is the only real solution
9/15/2019 05:12:00 AM
Nice thought and has been under consideration before, along with putting all employees into social security. But, if the city goes to a 401K, they have to fund their part of it every month and that is something I believe they do not want to do.
Anonymous said...
The city will not declare bankruptcy because it has too many assets namely 2 big ones.....Ohare and Midway airports. How many billions are just those two worth??? I'd love to see them explain to a judge why those two have not been liquidated. Not gonna happen.
9/15/2019 03:36:00 AM
The city cannot do this unless the Illinois Legislature approves.It might happen. But, as you can see by some of the comments posted here by trolls, they can't wait to see the police and fire retirees cast out into the streets. Besides that they are posting false facts about how much our pensions actually are and about the " cost of living" annual increases that we get. Haters all, but too cowardly to patrol the dark streets of Chicago at night or to rush into a burning building.
I'm sure that this option has been discussed by the bean counters in the current and past administrations. And bankruptcy will not happen for the reasons described by many of the commenters in this blog. The books will have to be opened to see what the city assets really are, and second, the big asset O'Hare could be on the block.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
If the city wants to eliminate pensions, it can. It will be painful, but it can.
First, all new hires in all city agencies are not put in the pension system, but instead into a 401K
Current employees putting into their pension will continue to do so until they retire
Over the next 60 years or so, the city will continue to fund pension obligations until the last pension employee or their spouse passes away.
After the last pension recipient passes away, the city is free of the pension system.
This is the only real solution
9/15/2019 05:12:00 AM
Would that not make the obligation even greater? no new hires putting money in and a decreasing base of current people leaving, some have proposed that current employed put more in the fund as part of the solution are they not doing that now to some extent?
If they did do bankruptcy, they still would raise taxes, just more to steal.
If they declare bankruptcy then all city workers on strike. Screw the law and the judges and politicians. Time for an uprising by city workers.
Patronage , three man ga4bage crew , two sit in truck , one works , 3 man light bulb changers , suburbs do it with one and they change three times as many bulbs , way to many aldermen , deputy mayors , assistant managers , exempt command staff , captains and way way way to many cowards hiding inside , tactical Secretary must be eliminating ASAP , all commanders that allow it should be dumped .
TIF funds can ONLY be used for infrastructure: Buildings, transportation, etc.
TIF funds cannot be used to plug holes in your poorly planned budget.
Bankruptcy SHOULD be shameful. I mean, who does it benefit if you walk away from your debts? Not the creditors. Fuck you. This isn’t a solution. And you actually think politicians are going to start over with a clean slate? In ten years we’ll be in the hole again. Use the TIF funds. That’s the REAL budget.
nonymous said...
"Maybe the Federal Government should step in..." This was said in a post above AFTER stating how bad filing BK would be. Do you not understand that filing BK would effectively put a federal court judge in charge of Chicago finances.
9/15/2019 11:14:00 AM
Thanks you condescending prick I understand. On one hand, I hate bigger government to get involved and don't think bankruptcy should be an easy out for thieves. On the other hand, the politicians are so incompetent that a federal judge might be needed to help babysit them. It's just unfortunate that I can't move out of this state, or at least Cook County anytime soon. Do you understand now?
Never once have these Communist democrats ever considered cutting the social welfare programs. That will never happen because who then will vote for these slugs. Welfare/Democrats they are synonymous. ♠️
queen lori could care less after she has bankrupt and drilled chicago into the dirty dirt ground she will leave after one term and fly to california where the democratic party will reward with another 200k year job.
hey screw up move up it works in the cpd
Bankruptcy is not the answer for Chicago. Re-financing what the city can and loan extensions is the better choice.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
If the city wants to eliminate pensions, it can. It will be painful, but it can.
First, all new hires in all city agencies are not put in the pension system, but instead into a 401K
Current employees putting into their pension will continue to do so until they retire
Over the next 60 years or so, the city will continue to fund pension obligations until the last pension employee or their spouse passes away.
After the last pension recipient passes away, the city is free of the pension system.
This is the only real solution
9/15/2019 05:12:00 AM
Would that not make the obligation even greater? no new hires putting money in and a decreasing base of current people leaving, some have proposed that current employed put more in the fund as part of the solution are they not doing that now to some extent?
9/15/2019 02:23:00 PM
—————
Yes it would, but that is the only real “solution”
Hey the trolls are the ones stuck paying the bloated pensions my friend. The smart ones are leaving city. Will be the first troll to raise my glass when the city declares bankruptcy to get out from under the burden of your over promised pension obligations. How Tapout you start contributing double the amount your currently Paying?
Well genius the city has not been making their contribution and your fund is making bad investments and losing money. At 75% the years stretches out another25% in length. So tell me how it will work when you put in rouughly three years of salary and you draw out 20 to 25 times that ammount. Does the city have a magic money tree or golden goose. Didn't think so. The politician sold you and the taxpayers a bill of goods agreeing to the ridiculous pension demands. Those polls knew that when the bill finally came due they would be long gone. Last I heard tour fund was at 25 - 27% funding. Unfortunately the only logical option city has us bankruptcy. You cannot borrow or tax your way out of the mess years of terrible contracts have created.
Just like the Constitution of the United States states:
"... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
The city of Chicago is really enforcing this one, isn't it?
9/15/2019 01:40:00 PM
Unlike our rights and responsibilities as citizens to keep a well-regulated militia, we need a well-regulated pension system.
Poor Chicago. *turns empty pockets inside-out*
Maybe if the elected stopped acting like Alladin and bestowing great riches on their friends & family....
The 95th Street project was financed through a combination of local, state, and federal dollars. At $280 million, it is the most expensive station project in CTA history, noted the Chicago Tribune. That figure, however, may soon be eclipsed by an estimated $300 million 15th Street Red Line stop proposed next to the mixed-use megadevelopment known as The 78.
Concrete blocks are readily available at Menard's for $1.29 each. Type S mortar in 80# bag is $6.
Anonymous said...
TIF funds can ONLY be used for infrastructure: Buildings, transportation, etc.
TIF funds cannot be used to plug holes in your poorly planned budget.
9/15/2019 03:54:00 PM
How can we be sure that the funds being used for infrastructure are TIF funds? If they're using other funds, the problem remains. If that's true, we should ensure no other funds are being used.
Chicago's budget has been messed up from year's and year's of mismanagement and corruption!
You can smell the stench of suburban eliteists/Wall Street shills like Dan (Fart) Proftttttttt
The numbers are what they are. Just accept it. Our pension will not be what you think it’s supposed to be. The money isn’t there and it won’t ever be there. If your under ten years you would be smart to leave. If your vested take advantage of the education that is offered and prepare to work after you’re done. Unless you invested wisely and have had the foresight to see this coming. For those retired it sucks for you but you supported the democratic machine your whole lives. This will be the end result of a 100 years of corruption.
So long as Mike Madigan is downstate... He will not allow the Federal system to lay a hand on the Cook County money pool. Why would Democrats give up the lock and key to the funds?
Going BK is not happening. Too much power being ceded.
"Toth says she asked administrators why he was back in school. She says administrators say they can’t deny him the right to an education."
Well... The youth as already passed Criminal Justice, Flint Style, 101 and auto shop... Nice education he is getting.
This must be fixed. First an across the board pay freeze for all city employees. Then a 10% pay reduction for all salaried positions with a comprehensive review of all city positions to determining if they are necessary. The only way to fix this is to eliminate the unnecessary positions and to reduce and freeze the salary of all city positions.
Let’s wipe clean the debts so the crooked politicians can start the money grab all over again!
Illinois just as Chicago are billions and billions in the red. How can Springfield help Chicago, when Springfield is billions of dollars off budget?
OT Omg groot swims. Lol
https://dmlnewsapp.com/report-fisherman-catches-strange-dinosaur-like-creature-photo/
SCC and my morning coffee have gone together for a very very long time. I was a bit surprised by the number of more than usual trolls arguing in favor of bankruptcy and/or diminished pensions for 1st responders. For the trolls:
1.) We gave the city a blank check via our minds, bodies and souls to do a particularly dangerous and often nasty job.
2.) In return we were PROMISED a middle class income with retirement security for our golden years, which due to point #1 are not going to be that golden for many of us. We have with 100% continuity payed our share into said retirement security while the city has neglected to maintain there share.
3.) You trolls are either too cowardly or too inept to wear a uniform and perform point #1, so you really have no say in this, so kindly, please, go sit down and STFU. This issue involves real men and real mens work, neither of which you qualify.
4.) I, and thousands of men likewise have fulfilled our part of the bargain. I will be retiring in a few years. If our PROMISED pension disappears, it wouldn't be surprising if the people that made that happen start doing likewise.
Declare bankruptcy and liquidate assets? You think the city is going to sell that big cash cow connected by a tiny stretch of Foster? It pays the bills. Without ORD the lights would be out in a week.
The unfunded municipal pension obligations, as I've warned for the last 4 years WILL BE the next bubble. A massive transfer of wealth to the sleazy bankers and hedge funds in cahoots with those entrusted to manage the public pensions.
That bubble will explode because there is no way to make it whole under the existing system. The penioners hanging wity their dicks in the wind will then be added to the Social Security rolls which will thereby WIPE OUT the Social Security Trust Fund Scheme altogether.
Hide yo kids, hide yo wife. Save your money and learn to live frugally because these motherfuckers are gonna pull the greatest heist in American History. Cover your asses while you still can.
And if it doesn't happen in the next decade, you'll be that much wealthier. Err on the side of caution and hedge.
Anonymous said...
Yes cuts need to be made in city financial problems. Deep cuts including pension obligations. Only way to achieve the pension issue is to declare bankruptcy. The Detroit model worked for Detroit and will work for Chicago. This pension problem is a classic case of there is no free lunch. Sorry folks you and all itsy workers were over promised and under charged. Think about it at 6% contribution in twenty years you will have contributed a year and a half full salary to fund and at thirty years 3 years of full salary. After 30 you retire and collect 25-35 years of full salary plus I believe a COLA raise every year. The math just doesn't work. The taxpayers cannot afford your burden any longer. Sorry but those ate the facts of the matter.
9/15/2019 04:21:00 AM
Who pays a 6% contribution? Not Police and Fire. 9.5% for us. City is supposed to contribute 18%. That's a total of 27.5% if my math is right.
CPD needs to be restructured and I’m not talking about pensions. Everyone working in the field should be put on 12 hour shifts 5a-5p or 7a-7p 2 on, 2 on/3off, get rid of all districts and go back to 6 areas, all brand new area HQs, have a Sup, 1st Deputy who runs all admin units, all swat/helicopter/mounted/marine/bomb/erps/academy/small investigations for dna unit/tech lab/forensics/ a new counterterrorism/tactical deployment group (NYPD has over 1,000 officers deployed to CT spots, CPD has swat do it), have them go to mass transit, airports, trains/stations/platforms, financial dust/ tourist attractions/ lakefront/ beaches/ bears/bulls/hawks/Sox/cubs games, concerts, local college games any large crowd events with special training/rifles, think NYPD ESU teams, give the First Deputy 3-4 ADS spots to run the citywide units he has, then rebuild 6 new area HQs(far south, south, central, west, northwest and northeast) each run with a Deputy sup who is held responsible for their area, each has 2 ADSs (1 for Investigations/1 for Patrol) they and their staff would be M-F 2nd watch. Everyone else would be in 12 hour watches. That would make 4 shifts/watches/platoons each commanded by a commander/or capt. No more OCD unit-it would all be broken up and managed by the area Investigstions ADS, along with all Tact and Gang teams. The city would be left with 1 SUP, 1 First Deputy Sup, 6 Deputy Sups, 14 ADS (given the First Deputy has 2) and the rest would be either commanders or capts (24 total) a lot less than the current exempt staff = 46 instead of over 100. Each area would have a ADS who overseas all the patrol units, canine, traffic, saturation, etc, with a capt or cmdr in charge of each shift/platoon. The Investigations ADS would be responsible for all detectives, svu, gangs, tact, ocd, fugitive, arson, ets. Each new area should be hardened like every single suburban station where the homeless can’t hang out/sleep/surf the web, 22 district stations serve no purpose other than as a homeless shelter. POs would have to be down longer on arrests but there would be more POs in the field from closing more districts. Also encourage public to call 311 for reports, setup an automated system in the areas to have 311 file the report over the phone in the lobby (kiosks) to free up desk personnel or hire police aids or cadets, no need for a gun toter if it’s hardened. I’m sure there are room to improve from here
Moving out of Chicago isn’t the answer, taxes are 5x more in the dollar counties. I paid $3k living in the city, now I pay $10.5k in Lake
Not much we can do if she decides to try it and gets legislature behind her.
One thing I think FLOP should ask for in this contract (which wouldn't cost the city anything) is a 401k in addition to our current 457b.
I understand not all are in the same situation but I'm maxed on deferred even with the 50 and over provision. The law was changed in 2001 so that municipalities can offer employees BOTH a 457b AND a 401k and you can max on BOTH in the same year. NYPD has both. I'm sure other departments do also.
Yes I know the city won't match but with this big of a pension deficit I want to be prepared just in case. I'm sure Nationwide would love to run it and they do administer 401k's. At least you are paying less tax at the end of each year. How about it FLOP?
9/15/2019 01:32:00 AM
Nothing is stopping you from also maxing out a traditional or Roth IRA at the same time you max out in 457(b). No need for 401(k) if the city isn’t matching.
Don't you think they'll hide all the tiff fund accounts assets if they're planning on filing for bankruptcy? Like a guy getting a divorce knowing he's going to take it on the chin so he hides assets. I'm sure city could get some advice from jabba the hut down in Springfield or mumbles on offshore accounts. Between o'hare expansion 9 billion which we all know might as well be 15 billion as they always run way over and the Lincoln yards deal at 2 billion that's a lot of fucking cabbage. Fuck this city
None of these pension funds in the 80s had problems when interest rates were 10 to 15% plus if you saved a couple hundred grand you could live on the interest. Low interest rates are killing these funds!
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bankruptcy is not the answer for Chicago. Re-financing what the city can and loan extensions is the better choice.
9/15/2019 05:39:00 PM
Given the bond rating of the city due to decades of financial mismanagement the cost of that would make matters worse the people who loan money are much smarter than the voter who elect the charlatans called politicians
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The unfunded municipal pension obligations, as I've warned for the last 4 years WILL BE the next bubble. A massive transfer of wealth to the sleazy bankers and hedge funds in cahoots with those entrusted to manage the public pensions.
Thn bubble has been created by elected officials making promises and not funding those promises uninformed and misinformed voters letting it happen and a financial crisis very very possible, underfunding of these obligations is a national problem that hasn't had much attention considering the magnitude of the possible consequences
conspiracy ,, black helicopters how do they profit from money not there???
Forensic Audit: LL doesnt have one conducted she full of shit part of th "crew"
Buy more ammo- it never hurts
None of these pension funds in the 80s had problems when interest rates were 10 to 15% plus if you saved a couple hundred grand you could live on the interest. Low interest rates are killing these funds!
9/16/2019 01:59:00 AM
Oneway willie, the juicer, spouts his patter.
The fucking grafter democrats!!!
The fuck you-pay me to the taxpayers.
The fuck you-pony up to the business owners.
The fuck you-juice me to the credit users.
The fuck you-vote for me to the moochers.
The fuck you-sue me to the citizens.
The fuck you-grease me to any wannabe newbie grafters.
The fuck you-blow me to any who don't lick it, kiss it and bow to it.
The grafter democrats.
The ones to whom more is never enough, ever.
The hogs.
The bloated hogs.
The current guv hog merely being a visual example of the tainted breed.
Oh woe is thee, oh greedy, needy, eyes so beady, bloated grafter democrat hog filth!!!
Moving out of Chicago isn’t the answer, taxes are 5x more in the dollar counties. I paid $3k living in the city, now I pay $10.5k in Lake
9/15/2019 10:57:00 PM
Not if that were Lake County, Indiana.
"Anonymous Anonymous said...
SCC and my morning coffee have gone together for a very very long time. I was a bit surprised by the number of more than usual trolls arguing in favor of bankruptcy and/or diminished pensions for 1st responders. For the trolls:
1.) We gave the city a blank check via our minds, bodies and souls to do a particularly dangerous and often nasty job.
2.) In return we were PROMISED a middle class income with retirement security for our golden years, which due to point #1 are not going to be that golden for many of us. We have with 100% continuity payed our share into said retirement security while the city has neglected to maintain there share.
3.) You trolls are either too cowardly or too inept to wear a uniform and perform point #1, so you really have no say in this, so kindly, please, go sit down and STFU. This issue involves real men and real mens work, neither of which you qualify.
4.) I, and thousands of men likewise have fulfilled our part of the bargain. I will be retiring in a few years. If our PROMISED pension disappears, it wouldn't be surprising if the people that made that happen start doing likewise.
9/15/2019 09:54:00 PM"
All due respect, and I certainly understand your point, but politicians have been breaking promises for thousands of years. Read the handwriting on the wall. Saying over and over that you were "promised" something doesn't change that fact and is self defeating. Everyone needs to seriously plan for the future with a very good possibility of a reduced pension. I did...
"SCC and my morning coffee have gone together for a very very long time. I was a bit surprised by the number of more than usual trolls arguing in favor of bankruptcy and/or diminished pensions for 1st responders. For the trolls:
1.) We gave the city a blank check via our minds, bodies and souls to do a particularly dangerous and often nasty job.
2.) In return we were PROMISED a middle class income with retirement security for our golden years, which due to point #1 are not going to be that golden for many of us. We have with 100% continuity payed our share into said retirement security while the city has neglected to maintain there share.
3.) You trolls are either too cowardly or too inept to wear a uniform and perform point #1, so you really have no say in this, so kindly, please, go sit down and STFU. This issue involves real men and real mens work, neither of which you qualify.
4.) I, and thousands of men likewise have fulfilled our part of the bargain. I will be retiring in a few years. If our PROMISED pension disappears, it wouldn't be surprising if the people that made that happen start doing likewise.
9/15/2019 09:54:00 PM"
You start out with a false premise, proceed to declare more false premises, then spout a bit of spunk outrage, also false, then wrap up with that feeble nonsense.
I woulr parse the fuck out of you, but, for what purpose?
You are set in your false premise positions as firmly as rigor mortis.
Add some Jack to that coffeee.
That would either calm you the fuck down or crank you the fuck up.
Since you are already cranked to your max limit, no harm in the latter.
And if the former effect applied, Bingo, no more morning constipation for you!!!
When Detroit went bankrupt every city asset was sold and the police and fire pensions came out pretty good in the end. OHare and Midway are worth $Billions. See what happens. This whole story might just be a scare tactic for the Midget to raise taxes and contract negotiations with unions.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Bankruptcy SHOULD be shameful. I mean, who does it benefit if you walk away from your debts? Not the creditors. Fuck you. This isn’t a solution. And you actually think politicians are going to start over with a clean slate? In ten years we’ll be in the hole again. Use the TIF funds. That’s the REAL budget.
9/15/2019 04:32:00 PM
The last mayor screwed around with the tif fund rules to make his friends rich. Tif funds should be eliminated, and all those that believe they are a good idea should be fired. That will happen right after we have term limits and a downsized city council. In other words, it ain’t gonna happen...
Anonymous said...
Moving out of Chicago isn’t the answer, taxes are 5x more in the dollar counties. I paid $3k living in the city, now I pay $10.5k in Lake
9/15/2019 10:57:00 PM
I agree. Taxes much higher when you leave the city. Chicago has relatively low property taxes. The savings would happen if you have kids and do not have to pay private school tuition and send your kids to suburban public schools. But, the schools in many suburbs are now what you think they are. Low violence, but plenty of drugs and gangs and dysfunction. There is no where to hide these days.
Anonymous said...
Moving out of Chicago isn’t the answer, taxes are 5x more in the dollar counties. I paid $3k living in the city, now I pay $10.5k in Lake
9/15/2019 10:57:00 PM
$3000??? I don’t blame you for moving out. Living in the 011th district is dangerous.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
None of these pension funds in the 80s had problems when interest rates were 10 to 15% plus if you saved a couple hundred grand you could live on the interest. Low interest rates are killing these funds!
9/16/2019 01:59:00 AM
Only getting worse. Fed rates are like zero and may actually go enegative
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/sweet-deal-some-retired-public-employees-pensions-bigger-than-their-salaries-were/ar-AAGZaDj
Sure seems like a lottery ticket to me!
Moving out of Chicago isn’t the answer is right. It’s still a bargain in a lot of ways compared to decent burbs. You either gotta stay and dig in, or get outa Illinois.
Chicago should file bankruptcy. Chicago would then start from a clean slate.
I started in 2001. The pension fund was in serious trouble then. Watch Commander told all of us to start a IRA and max deferred comp on our own because of the pension being so screwed up. Guess he was correct I put in 20% of my pay it hurts but you get used to it after a while.
Hope Chicago does file for bankruptcy, GROOT won't do it !
funny how all of a sudden we get a nobody " appointed " mayor and all the msm suddenly realizes the city is broke. why didnt all these financial geniuses write these stories when rahm was in power? and the corrupt burke being elevated to head of the state supreme court just because? lori was put in to take the fall, and the obediant msm will sing the virtues of a shitcago bancruptcy like the party propogandists they are. once the slate is clean and the sheep are shorn, the real rulers will rise from the dead and the daley madigan cabal will start anew taxing spending and stealing. expect the constitution to be changed " for the children " and alot of pain for the dwindling working class. beans and bullets children...........buy them.
i find it funny that all the know it all trolls say contracts can be cancelled, pensions can be cancelled and the constitution itself can be ripped up legally but the tifs cant be touched. the stupid is strong in those people. the tifs are just another law. cancel it. steal the tif money and use it where its needed by those that actually paid into it. fukkin golden calf. rules are meant to be broken.you can put retired seniors on the street but citizens of foreign countries and tif funds are untouchable ? democrats. a pox on our house.
Math isn’t Republican or Democrat, Liberal or Conservative. It’s just math. Now y’all can rip the another because of his politics but math don’t care.
The fact of the matter is that all you union members believed all those politicians and union leaders who promised you benefits that they knew could never, ever be sustained over the long term. Why not? Because the math doesn’t work. The math will NEVER work.
Face it, ladies and gentlemen, you believed a bunch of politicians of BOTH parties who promised you free shit when they KNEW it couldn’t be paid for. And Y’ALL bear a big piece of responsibility for not raising your hands and asking a couple of simple questions:
“Who the fuck is going to pay for all this shit?”
“How in the Hell can you put enough money away so we only have to work 25 years and then get paid 80% of the average of our last 3 years wages AND free medical benefits until the day we die?”
“How can you guarantee us that those assholes in Springfield won’t just piss all that cash away buying votes?”
No, ladies and gentlemen, you own a big, hot, streaming slice of this clusterfuck because in the immortal words of Otter in the classic Animal House: “You fucked up. You trusted us.”
Face it. Chicago WILL be forced at some point to file a Chapter 9. So y’all best be making plans right now on how you’re going to deal with it on a personal level. I don’t care what the Illinois Constitution has to say about it because the bank ain’t gonna cash a copy of Section 5.
When the money is gone and they can’t squeeze another nickel out of Bob and Betty Bungalow and the bond market laughs at the Chicago City Council you will NOT be payed. And that day IS coming.
How do I know it’s coming? Because the MATH DOESN’T WORK!
Now y’all have a nice day.
I think the state will be forced to pass legislation allowing localities to file for bankruptcy so the federal bankruptcy courts can deal with the pension crisis. The thing is that workers covered by the state run municipal workers pension plan are not at risk as that pension plan is well funded.
It is mostly police and fire funds that are in trouble outside of chicago. All of the chicago funds are in trouble.
I think a fair number of small plans could be rolled into the state sponsored plan and get some economies of scale that would help them out considerably although there will still be pain paying the arrearages. But it will be less pain.
The bigger plans like chicagos dont have that option on any realistic basis.
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