Supreme Court Ruling
- The U.S. Supreme Court ruled on Monday that a police officer cannot be held liable for ramming a fleeing car during a high-speed chase, forcing the vehicle off the road and resulting in severe injury or even death for the driver.
By an 8-1 vote, the high court ruled the officer's conduct reasonable because the car chase initiated by the suspect posed a substantial and immediate risk of serious physical injury to others.
Not quite a blanket endorsement of chases and not full immunization from the consequences of a chase, but interesting none the less.
The ruling appears to immunize police officers from the liability of injuries suffered by the offender during the course of his unlawful actions to avoid apprehension and prosecution. It would appear to leave in place the punitive damages being leveled against the officer and the municipality for injuries suffered by bystanders to the chase events.
Don't expect any changes in policy from this one. You're still on the hook if the jagoff plows into a car full of nuns. You just don't have to pay for his busted up ass.
The ruling appears to immunize police officers from the liability of injuries suffered by the offender during the course of his unlawful actions to avoid apprehension and prosecution. It would appear to leave in place the punitive damages being leveled against the officer and the municipality for injuries suffered by bystanders to the chase events.
Don't expect any changes in policy from this one. You're still on the hook if the jagoff plows into a car full of nuns. You just don't have to pay for his busted up ass.
Labels: department issues
posted by SCC at 12:07 AM
56 Comments:
Justice Stevens, liberal at large and product of Chicago's own Northwestern University law school, was almost comical in his sole dissent. I haven't read the transcript, but he supposedly accuses the other 8 of being misled by a few frames of the videotape of the chase. Basically says the offender was not really a threat due to the time of night and the offender's careful driving.
This despite having the offender exceed speeds of 100, pass three dozen or more cars by crossing the double-solid lines, and intentionally ramming a police cruiser when he attempted some trickery in a parking lot.
But Stevens thinks it wasn't that dangerous. God help this country with people this dense on the Supreme Court. Thankfully, he's old and likely the next to die. Of natural causes!! in case anyone takes that last statement the wrong way!
OFF TOPIC: VCD/OCD NARCOTICS REUNION AT F.O.P. THIS FRIDAY @ 18:30.
The Court's rule is narrow, in that it only applies to "high speed" chases. Thus, the question is what exactly constitutes "high speed".
Since there is no brite-line rule, you can bet the Department will not change their pursuit policy, as the possibility of liability still exists for injuries to the plaintiff/offender in chases that are not what would be considered "high speed".
Just a lawyers professional opinion.
SCC:
This was posted over at our friends at seceondcitysarge.com
Perhaps you can make it a topic . . It speaks for itself . .
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ervaMPt4Ha0
I DON'T THINK WE'LL BE GETTING RAMMING BARS ANY TIME SOON.
Concerned civilian here. I know there was alot of talk on the blog, but any leads on Officer Vazquez' muder? (sp, sorry) I only wish I could help. SCC an update, solid information?
Please Be Safe Guys, us non-scumbags have respect
Sorry not to comment on the yopic posted.
April 29, 2007
BY MICHAEL SNEED Sun-Times Columnist
I spy . . .
Police Supt. Phil Cline at Harry Caray's on Friday for a midday meal.
This is news? Cline never missed a meal in his life, look at him.
what about if the squad car is flying through an intersection at about 90 mph and T bones a fruit truck, then catches fire with the two officers unconscious and dead or dying inside.
Does the owner of the fruit truck get to sue the officers' widows?
Youre missing the point SCC Its dangerous to chase cars.
Not because of lawsuits, but because of physics
Off topic and I'm sorry, but does anybody have any information about the search warrant that the Area 2 gun team executed on the brother in law of a CHICAGO POLICE OFFICER last week in 016? You know, the one where they lied and told the judge he had a sawed off shotgun when he was in fact a middle aged, middle class law abiding citizen with no criminal history who merely possessed rifles that he used to hunt with? I used to read negative things about the Area 2 gun team here all the time and I always thought they were B/S, the rantings of a disgruntled Officer who wanted to but couldn't get on the team. Now I know that they were NOT the rantings of a disgruntled employee but probably all based on fact if the warrant they served in 016 last week is any indication. And why IS the AREA 2 GUN TEAM doing warrants in a far northwest side district when they are supposed to be in AREA 2? SHAME,SHAME,SHAME!
what about if the squad car is flying through an intersection at about 90 mph and T bones a fruit truck, then catches fire with the two officers unconscious and dead or dying inside.
Does the owner of the fruit truck get to sue the officers' widows?
Youre missing the point SCC Its dangerous to chase cars.
Not because of lawsuits, but because of physics
Police work is dangerous by definition. We're just supposed to let everyone get away if they run? The point isn't that it's dangerous to chase cars - the point is that it's dangerous to allow criminals to ignore the rule of law and then benefit from their disregarding the law.
Rewarding someone for breaking the law only encourages more people to break the law. Look at the immigration situation - if we actualy enforced existing law, does anyone think we'd have 12 million illegals running around demanding rights they don't deserve and aren't guaranteed? We wouldn't.
And allowing someone who was fleeing and eluding to sue the cop and the municipality for his own unlawful actions would have sent the wrong message. Writing for the majority, Scalia noted the stupidity of the the offender's argument that everything would have been fine if the police just stopped chasing - why even have the police then? Or laws? Or a civilized society?
The CPD "balancing test" is still in effect. Risks must be weighed and potential hazards must be evaluated. If you do something that causes innocents to be injured or killed, you'll still be on the hook. But at least a Conservative Court removed one potential hazard to your livelihood - an obvious one, but one nonetheless.
Justice Stevens went to Loyola, not Northwestern. In fact, Loyola has been where the last few justices have come from.
Still, No chase in Chicago! The public says it's only a stolen car. It will be found later. They should just make auto theft a minor offense. Cops just like to drive reckless, like in those "Fast and Furious" movies.
why chase? who cares??
Adopt California's laws on police pursuits and all these bullshit lawsuits would stop. Too bad that will never happen.
TO 12:05am
Ive worked w/a few of u OCD guys
from the 70s & 80s after your "downfalls" and uz got dumped back to patrol. U were a great group of guys and there's no one like uz out there anymore.(All your imitators get caught)
Bless u guys and all the f*k'n money uz made!!
Chase cars??? F*ck! we cant even handle our liquor without getting into bar fights!!!!!!!!!!
We knew this was coming. The female bartender in that shithead Abbate beating is filing a $1million dollar lawsuit. According to the Sun-Times, her lawyer described the civil suit as an indictment of the Police Department's long-standing "pervasive" custom of failing to investigate and discipline officers. The truth is they (bartender and lawyer) just wanna make some fucking money. Any coppers out there wanna beat my ass. We'll cash out. Un-fuckin-believable.
7:09, he graduated from Northwestern in 1947. Look it up.
And I don't know where in the world you got the idea that a Supreme Court justice came from Loyola (Chicago, New Orleans or LA), but it has not happened (not from Loyola Chicago, New Orleans or LA). In fact, my guess is that no supreme court justice in history is a Loyola grad.
5/01
6:57am
No info on that but they did the same type of bullshit warrant on a fireman and on a deceased CPD detectives son. Seems they are doing warrants up north or northwest and these warrants are based on bullshit CI's and "sawed off shotguns" or "filed off serial numbers" I hope they get caught on this shit soon before more innocent gun owners get jammed up or before somebody gets killed during one of these very illegal warrants. When it is all over the only crime committed by their victims is failure to register,one forgot to re-register some guns and the other probably couldn't register his dead father's duty weapons. Where the fuck does this department get these fucking asshole coppers and how can they sleep at night thinking they are the police? They are a real disgrace to the rest of us. IAD why don't you check into this unit?????????? Imagine search warrants that lead to only quasi criminal charges.
Justice Stevens has always been a police hater. Narcotics locked up his son in his "head shop" at 115/Kedzie many years. Stevens never forgot.
abbatte charged federal civil rights violation, enough already!
Even though this wont affect Chicago's policy it still shows why you should vote Republican.
The liberal Dem. Judges are totally out of touch with reality.
Stevens arguement was like some shit heads on why it's ok to commit crimes. It defies common sense.
This country is on the wire to either go in the shitter or become stronger.
Thank u George for appointing Roberts it will be part of your great leagacy
here's an idea . stop locking people up for one month so those that run our court system that are anti-police can look at each other and say to themselves /each other "now what do we do to justify our existance"
Your the disease, Im the cure.
Even the FLAMING LIBERAL CNN watchers are fed up with illegal immigrants!
Results thusfar of a cnn.com poll:
Do you think the United States allows enough legal immigrants to live in the country?
Yes 85% 46926 votes
No 15% 8091 votes
Total: 55017 votes
"OFF TOPIC: VCD/OCD NARCOTICS REUNION AT F.O.P. THIS FRIDAY @ 18:30."
MIEDZANOWSKI THE MAN OF HONOR IN ABSENTIA...
CI'S GET IN FOR 1/2 PRICE
"why IS the AREA 2 GUN TEAM doing warrants in a far northwest side district when they are supposed to be in AREA 2?"
Because they're jealous of Vic Mackey's Strike Team on the SHIELD and want to live up to his Exploits.
If you want to keep a Conservative Supreme Court, you better vote republican. I guarantee you that if the democrats take over the court will change.
Can anyone comment on the 30 sector cars in 009 on days? Im wondering if the rumors i hear are true..............
Did anyone else notice that none of the local news outlets thought this was important enough to put on the evening news last night? I only saw it on Fox News Channel and CNN. They did show the Abbate beating on every channel again though..... shows you what kind of headlines they are looking for....
Q. "And why IS the AREA 2 GUN TEAM doing warrants in a far northwest side district when they are supposed to be in AREA 2?"
A. Because they are too scared of all the black people in Area 2.
Way Off Topic, but this needs to be addressed---
This message is to all the CPD brass and those others with their blackberry phones. You people have become so rude, you don't know it or don't really give a shit. The average copper can't even have a conversation when your phone rings / vibrates. Right away in the middle of a conversation you look to see which one of your cronies is a callin' and instantly reply to it like your playing a "game boy", all the time saying "uh & yea" without looking at the person your talking with.
Would you let one of your kids talk on their cell phone as you have dinner together at home? I think not!
Stop being so rude and feeling like your so important. Start showing some respect to the men and women when whoever calls, DON'T ANSWER IT until your face to face business is complete.
The department ran smooth before blackberrys and I'm guessing it will continue to run if you don't answer someone right away.
Thanks for letting me rant...
blackberryless on the n.w. side.
Sc This is 0421 here
A 75% pensioneer
For too many reasons to write here, I'll just say that after the original harm is done., injuring other members of the public or other officers doesnt make things better, it makes things worse
The incident I spoke of actually occured, at Van Buren and Morgan (there may not have been a fire) but two coppers left brain matter in the passenger compartment of their 1st dist car, beat 107
Im surprised that you werent shown their photos whan you attended the Timothy O'Connor Training Center like I was when I attended 3 decades ago.
Im aware that police work is dangerous. But lets not make it worse.
The problem is not allowing criminals to get away, but exactly how do we SAFELY interrupt their flight?
By safely I mean no danger to the officers and no danger to innocents
Lawsuits are a secondary issue.
Survival is primary
Chasing cars is very dangerous and not effective
The Area 2 gun Team goes to the safer areas to play their BS gun pinches,cuz they are too scared to go after the real thugs with guns..
Nice job 8:38 you just left your ip address expect a visit
Anonymous said...
why chase? who cares??
As someone who is law abiding in another country, if the cops had a chance to catch a criminal and let them go, they would be blamed for anything that said criminal would do at a later date.
In this world it's a damned if they do, damned if they don't senario.
It would also give the criminals the go ahead to drive recklessly in the hopes of getting the cops to back off, so they can get off scot free.
Police around the world are there to enforce the law, not let them get away with it.
Can you believe this crap with the new Lt's exam and the repeat of the oral exam, with the same questions no less, scheduled for 23 June??? Yeah, this job is legit.....NOT!!
hey 0421am i hope your not a p.o. but if you are then your a fucking pussy, i dont know about you but i thought if someone breaks the law we as the police have to take action.i bet you still suck your thumb.
off topic: you got to love this guy, at least he has a sense of humor. Won't be one like him for a long timhttp://www.cpdmemorial.org/rune.
Fax Message # 071913 01 May 07
POLICE LIEUTENANT EXAMINATION ANNOUNCEMENT ***ASSESSMENT EXERCISE RE-TEST**
Note: The re-test will consist of the same questions adminisitered on Jan. 6,2007. For those taking the re-test on June 23, 2007, the evaluation of the oral portion of Assessment Exercise will be based on your June 23, 2007 performance; your Jan. 6, 2007 performance will not be evaluated. For those that choose not to re-test on June 23, 2007, the evaluation of the oral portion of the Assessment Exercise will be based on your Jan. 6, 2007 performance.
Who is the brainiac that came up with this solution? More litigation, great....
You will have to pay for the squad car you fuck up too! No shit on this one!
What kind of pathetic, bullshit is going on with the LT test?!?!? I've never seen such in your face, blatant incompetance ( or is it just corruption ) in my life! I DEMAND to know what my ORIGINAL SCORE IS! No reason given for re-testing, just the option to do it? What a complete sham! A farce.
"OCD PARTY AT FOP THIS FRIDAY"
Make sure some of you "VICE" millionaire$ cough up some for your SOS brothers.
5:15pm
I was referring to their overtime;
do you know something I dont?
I'll be at FOP Friday; I'll be the guy doing the inventories if one of these VCD dudes drops dead!
to 216pm.....yes!!!!!
if you're going to put it out there, then put it out there...
what are the 009 30 sector days rumors?
It all comes down to this, there are good guys and bad guys. Bad guy does something wrong, good guy tries to arrest bad guy. Oh shit! Bad guy did'nt stop when good guy said stop. Shocking! Yes you people are right, chases are so bad and cops should'nt do chases until it's someone you know who is a victim of a crime. Then all we hear is: there they go stop them/ go after them(Blaah, Blaah). Ask yourselves this question, who's fault is it? The good guy for doing his/her job or the bad guys fault for doing something illegal and then disobeying a direct police order(refusing to pull over for lights and sirens) and trying to get away with it. Ooopppsss,I forgot we are chicago Police Officers and we should address the offender in verbal judo and if that offender does'nt comply, oohh well just let the offender get away, we will get that person later, because we can get run the license plate. Of course after seatbelt & curfew missions, wolfpacking, dock missions and every other bassackwards thing this dept. thinks of. Sorry so long,but enough is enough. How about this, lets go back to police work!
P.S. To all PO's sue everybody that gets a bullshit CR# on you. Why not? These muts are banking on you to do your job(and beat the shit out of them). So do your job and when they file a BS CR# sue em. Somewhere along the way we lost are solidarity. As to take a phrase from my high school math teacher "no more". Yes it was before Jim Bel. said it . As Always be safe, you and your partner always go home no matter what the cost!
9:57-Your right. One of these days they are going to hit the home of a retired Marine or soldier who takes the Constitution alot more seriously than most, knows the warrant is B/S and is willing to defend his "castle" at all costs. Then there will be hell to pay. All I can say is God help both the victim of these illegal warrants and those that serve them.
hey 09:11
Im not a PO Im a retired PO
I dont suck my thumb and Im not a pussy
I support the ruling. I just dont believe in chasing cars ONLY because its impossible to make them stop unless they crash.
Do you have to resort to name calling when someone doesnt agree with you?
Thats a sign of maturity and intelligence
The female bartender in that shithead Abbate beating is filing a $1million dollar lawsuit.
5/01/2007 09:08:00 AM
I hope she gets every dime of ity and sends that dirtbag Abbate to the poor house where he belongs. I hope he has to stand on a street corner with a cardboard sign to pay the judgement:
"Disgraced cowardly ex cop. Will beat people up for money"
Chasing cars is very dangerous and not effective
5/01/2007 04:04:00 PM
Maybe you should go back to flipping burgers at the diner. I like the way they do things in other countires. You flee, they summon everyone and the car and occupants get shot up. No problem. Oh, they don't get sued either.
It's hard to chase someone in the Squad Roll... It only goes 60mph floored. (Not anything I would know LOL!)
Maybe you should go back to flipping burgers at the diner. I like the way they do things in other countires. You flee, they summon everyone and the car and occupants get shot up. No problem. Oh, they don't get sued either.
5/02/2007 12:01:00 PM
When you break your neck in a car chase and the pension bd disallows your disability. I'll come to your benefit party
And, jag bag, I never flipped burgers at the diner.
Now I collect pension checks
Thanks for coming on the CPD and saving us. I dont know how we survived without you.
And thanks for making my shoes shine like fuckin mirrors, Tommie
5/01/2007 06:57:00 AM
You have bad information.
The Area 2 Gun Team is top notch and the team has probably 3 of the best coppers in the City.
4:25
Squadrolls only go 60 mph???
Learn how to drive.
I've had the old ones (350 chevy engine) up to 87 mph, and the new diesels (6.3 ltr at that) over 100.
None the less, if someone stole my car, I would rather recover it when it ran out of gas.
Almost every "Pursuit" involving a stolen car (that I've been in)results in dammage.
And the Judges never give a meaningful sentence.
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