IMPORTANT UPDATE
- As police were sorting through the details of a Bronzeville neighborhood shooting, there was rising concern about the weapon used and its long-term implications for Chicago.
On the ground, shattered glass from the CTA bus stop, where the victims' car smashed into it. Also on the ground, shell casings from a gun known as an FN-5.7.
Police Sergeant Kirkland Crossley says the FN-5.7 bullets can go through 48 layers of Kevlar.
"We recovered ten shell casings, and this weapon is known to carry at least 20 rounds in the magazine."
WBBM: How often do you see this type gun on the street?
"Very first time, very first time I've seen it, and I've been on the job 15 years now. And by far this is probably the most dangerous handgun that I've come across."
Sergeant Crossley says, compared to the FN-5.7, what police carry is a slingshot.
So, it's out there. And only WBBM radio is covering it.
Can we please, please, PLEASE
Can we please, please, PLEASE
- get the new goddamn weapon order approved
- get some new, modern, decent weapons approved
- get some damn rifles and shotguns on the street ASAP.
And we've also drafted a letter for our significant others to retain a lawyer to sue the shit out of the City in the event of our untimely deaths if it is directly attributable to the Department's incompetence in arming and protecting us in the face of overwhelming firepower.
Be DAMN careful out there people - we're as undergunned as we were before they approved semi-autos - probably more so.
Be DAMN careful out there people - we're as undergunned as we were before they approved semi-autos - probably more so.
Labels: safety issues
posted by SCC at 9:00 AM
94 Comments:
Can I get a copy of that lawsuit letter to give to my own family?? unreal
"get some damn rifles and shotguns on the street ASAP."
This is important,getting new pistols wont give the po-po any significant edge.But as I was told a long time ago...."son,if ya gotta go to a gun fight,bring a long gun!"
The 5.7 is going to be an anomally,it happened,but it is not going to be the weapon of choice.Plenty of .25s,.32s.38s still ou there.
The FN 5.7 is a joke.
1. It's no more powerful than a .22 magnum revolver. If troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are complaining about the lack of stopping power of 5.56x45mm M855 ball out of a 14.5" RIFLE barrel, what makes something FAR less powerful out of a PISTOL more dangerous? NOTHING.
2. The "armor piercing" ammunition for it is unavailable on the civilian market. If a criminal shoots somebody with armor piercing 5.7mm ammunition, it was sold to him by a COP, or somebody who sells ammunition to cops.
3. The magazine capacity is no more impressive than that of a Glock 17 with a +2 baseplate. And the Glock is FAR more effective.
The FN 5.7 is merely a VERY expensive toy for shooting rats at the dump. I'd rather use a .22-250 rifle. It's cheaper to shoot, and WILL go throw a ballistic vest or helmet with pretty much ANY ammunition.
Dr. Fackler said that this emperor has no clothes YEARS ago. Don't buy the hype.
The 57 is no magic bullet beyond anything else. Yes it could penetrate the vests but so will most rifle bullets. Any dope can saw a rifle down.
I want every cop in America armed with the .45 ACP, a semi-shotgun and M-16 or M-4 type rifle.
Bring back 4Xs per year weapon qualification too,
i would be less concerned about being outgunned and more concerned about skills/tactics. give a highly trained/experienced individual an 1894 winchester and they will do more damage than an amature with the best/newest equipment. these guys with the fancy pistol, what was their hit/miss ratio? if you want to worry about something consider what will happen when all those gangbangers return from the war.
Uh....this has been debunked:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-seveN
"There has been some controversy over claims that the Five-SeveN is a "cop-killer" gun. The debate rests on the armor piercing capabilities of the military and law enforcement version (SS190) of the 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge. This type of ammunition however, is not available to the public and does not provide any greater danger or armor piercing capability than many much more powerful, unrestricted and commonly available rifle cartridges not even designed specifically for armor piercing. The civilian SS196 and SS197 ammunition uses standard lead core jacketed bullets, but does retain the much higher muzzle velocity of SS190.
The misconception stems from the fact that certain rounds of 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition are designed for optimal armor piercing effect. This does not mean however, that all types 5.7 x 28 mm ammunition have special or abnormal armor piercing capability and in fact even the armor piercing 5.7 x 28 mm cartridge has less armor piercing effect than standard 5.56 x 45 mm NATO ball ammunition."
While I agree IF your shooter has access to the LE version of ammo their is cause for concern. That being said I would carry one of these for self-defense.
Don't fall for the bunk from the Brady Bunch. The commercially available ammo for the FN 5.7 is not armor piercing and does not penetrate a Level II vest. This is according to The ATF. Other reviews I've found compare the ammunition to the .22 Magnum round used in plinking rifles. Deadly at close range in the head at the right angle but less deadly than the 9mm.
In short, it sounds like some gangbanger robbed a collector and is using what he found. At about $1000 a pop, I don't think these will be showing up in big numbers on the street.
Despite all of the above, I still agree that the CPD is woefully out gunned. When I can see a Park Ridge patrol officer walking into a domestic call with (what looked like from across the street) an AR-15, you start to see the difference.
I hope we prevail as our fathers did 63 years ago today. 06 Jun. 44 D-Day. God bless those heros.
From the always suspect wikipedia. This article seems reliable enough though. Check it out lads. Copy, paste and for Gods sake be safe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five-seveN
Not something you want in the hands of a bad guy. No sir.
I wouldn't be tremendously worried about the FN 5.7 yet. It's a very expensive and somewhat rare gun, and this is the first crime I've heard of using it nationwide. The armor penetrating ammo isn't available to civilians. The cartridge itself appears to be neither fish nor fowl--Only .22 caliber, but not enough velocity when used in a pistol to make up for the small diameter. The cartridge is designed for e bullpup carbine where the extra barrel length adds significantly to velocity.
Not to say you don't need better weapons, but this isn't the reason.
From the fnhusa website:
http://www.fnhusa.com/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF003&gid=FNG001&mid=FNM0004
All 5.7x28mm restricted ammunition (armor piercing) is sold only to law enforcement and military agencies. This ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs controlled bonded warehouse (CBW) upon BATFE and U.S. Customs approval.
And we've also drafted a letter for our significant others to retain a lawyer to sue the shit out of the City in the event of our untimely deaths if it is directly attributable to the Department's incompetence in arming and protecting us in the face of overwhelming firepower.
-SCC you could not have said it better.
They sent me for tactical shotgun training last sept, but we have no shotguns in our unit? Why daley does not like the look of people officers carrying a shotgun he says it "intimidates the public" is that not the eaxact reason to carry it? Especially in fast districts?
All 5.7x28mm restricted ammunition (armor piercing) is sold only to law enforcement and military agencies. This ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs controlled bonded warehouse (CBW) upon BATFE and U.S. Customs approval.
Thank God! Because we all know that nothing has ever gone missing from a government controlled warehouse. I feel so much safer now.
By the way, did anyone run across those hard drives containing all the nuclear secrets from the Los Alamos lab that I "acquired" from various well screened scientists?
Or those dozens of shoulder fired stinger missles just lying around various countries after the Cold War.
Then run over to ERPS and see how many guns still aren't accounted for after the reign of Toby Burton and how much dope is still missing.
Finally, ask the old timers in 010 and 011 about how the citizens of Ogden Courts hit the jackpot one day and managed to pry open a box car full of rifles. Those things were turning up for the better part of a year afterwards.
Yeah, that ammo sure won't be making any appearances on the streets.
S.O.S. would have already had this gun inventoried, and yes with a head. Hopefully it lies within a pre-determined 5 block violence zone.
Not to worry. The FN round is junk. It does penetrate most body armor, but then the energy left only penetrates about 1" into the body, nowhere deep enough to cause life-ending injuries.
from the BATF website:
ATFhttp://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearmstech/fabriquen.htm
This is not some super cop killer gun.
So what! You can buy a Kel-tech pistol which uses M-16 mags and shoots .223s Also anyone with a FOID card can buy SS109 ammo with the steel penetrator core.
Scared? Then quit. You have not been forced to take this job.
The city and the department "each and every time" will say ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS OUR (POLICE) SAFETY AND THAT WE GO HOME AT NIGHT.
rrrr. Air break sound!
When in fact, they can give a rats ass about all of us. No manpower on the streets, no backup, shitty training, obsolete firepower, disarming police in court and so on...
We got notified about that gun months ago. Fuck the manufacturer for making it. Rifle round in a handgun. High capacity mag. Minimal recoil. Honestly, since we've learned about this handgun, yesterday's shooting was the FIRST time I've heard about it hear in the city.
Kirk, you did a fine fine job speaking on t.v. , nottt
You can't sue the city for this reason.
Every beat car and its PO's need to be treated as an adult and be allowed to carry the tools needed to do this job! Everyone else around the country carry some type of heavy weapon and a taser!
My wife has already stated she is going to sue the city for $100 million if I am killed in the streets as a result of CPD not equipping me with what is needed out there.
Like a jury will turn down a crying widow with two small children now fatherless.
Seeing as the city does not respond to logic, perhaps they will respond to financials.
You can't sue the city for this reason.
Says who? Cite the statute. The City is home rule and self insured. You can sue them for anything you feel like suing them for. You just need an unscrupulous enough lawyer to file the paper work. By restricting the allowed police weapons and ammunition to underpowered, low grade junk and not qualifying us three or four times a year, and offering additional tactical training as part of continuing education and professional development courses, they've put you in danger without adequete tools. And before the asshole who says "if you don't like it, quit" chimes in, no one here signed up to be cannon fodder. No one here signed up for an honors funeral. No one here signed up to be shit on by citizens and bosses alike. We need better guns. We need more training. And we need it as part of a tour of duty rather than spending time away from our families. FOP? How about it?
2. The "armor piercing" ammunition for it is unavailable on the civilian market. If a criminal shoots somebody with armor piercing 5.7mm ammunition, it was sold to him by a COP, or somebody who sells ammunition to cops.
-----------------------------------
And all the guns the thugs have are legally bought?
If there is a market for it, someone will sell it.
If the dopeboys have the cash, they can buy em.
I am pro-second amandment but this gun has no goddamn legitimacy.
You aren't going to hunt with this fucking handgun.
E-mail your alderman/congressman/senators people, get this shit banned.
Sgt. Kirland Crossley is a moron who loves to hear himself talk on the radio.
Hey Phil/Richard,
I am going to start carrying my AR-15 in the trunk.
You can fire me if I have to use it, at least I will be alive. I'll land on my feet. Of course the city will be sued for tens of millions of dollars.
Or you can do the right thing and properly arm us!
Anytime I tell PO's from other agencies that we only have a handgun (no shotguns, rilfes, tasers, etc) they laugh their asses off.
Good to know that suburban departments are better equipped than we are.
So why do we keep going out there and making arrest and bringing in the numbers...OOOps I mean index.
Because we are not united. because we don not stand together. I wont do a damn thing but go help anohter copper in need!
And until you ass kissers stop nothing will change. We must stick together.
Hey Richie,
Good luck getting the Olympic bid seeing as you have a police dept that isn't armed to stop a bank robbery let alone a terrorist attack.
Just to clarify....I would NOT carry the FN 5.7 for self defense.
Here in Cincinnati our beat cops carry SW MP 9mm with two 17 round mags as a backup....however they have access to patrol rifles SW MP AR15 and 870 shotguns. I would take a 870 shotgun with slugs any day of the week.
What are the Chicago cops carrying these days that you feel outgunned?
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/
firearmstech/fabriquen.htm
Who would win in a showdown: Seiser versus the Campbell Boys??
Contrary to the "ballistic experts" posting anonymously here on the site, it IS a danger.
These are rifle rounds, not being shot from a rifle, but a HANDGUN no bigger than a 226, 92d, etc., with a has a 20 round magazine. And that could be stuck right in the beltline of some goofball with a XXXL white T on, you think you can see that?
The gun itself costs around 900.00, and you can buys rounds for 20.00 for a box of fifty right off the website I looked at.
Quick show of hands of any officer that made a dealer pinch within the last week where the shitbird had 920.00 in cash on him. Money certainly is not an issue here.
...Says who? Cite the statute. The City is home rule and self insured. You can sue them for anything you feel like suing them for.....
A police officer can not sue the city for negligence
As of this writing CPD has issued a statement stating the annunition used was originally falsely rported.
Hey Jeff : 6-6-07- 10:22 AM
Yea right and you can't bring DOPE into this country either . Go Fuck yourself MORON .
Alot of hype for no reason. Hunting rifles, which are legal, can do much worse damage at a greater distance. What will the new order do to change things? Nothing.
Well now apparently CPD is pissed the public knows just how ill-equipped we are out there so they have called a press conference!
Sgt Sesso seen on CLTV has stated these guns are ot a threat.
Media, don't buy this shit. Tell the people the truth!
Hey we should have cars like the old batmobile with missles and shields! LOL The city never did and does not now care about its police! from daley down it shows the lack of caring! When daley goes to prison lets hope everything will change! GO PATRICK FITZGERALD PLEASE INDICT DALEY-BLAGO-BURKE-STROGER AND THE REST OF THE ALDERTHIEVES SOON!
Why worry. There has been a Handgun ban in the city since 1982. They must have dropped it from the E-way.
if you want to worry about something consider what will happen when all those gangbangers return from the war.
6/06/2007 10:06:00 AM
Nice to know that you support the troops!
i saw a memo in c/o book that the suv's in the districts are being reassigned to the 20 sector sgt's...due to the fact that the department is "currently purchasing tactical equipment" what does this mean??? The memo was from Charles Williams...What tactical equipment??? guns?? or cones for seatbelt missions?? please tell...
A teletype came out today stating that as of the first day of the 7th Period, all of the SUV's delivered to the Districts will be re-assigned as the 20 Sector Sgts car. Per the teletype, this will be to facilitate specialized equiptment which is to be carried by that Sgt-----no mention of precisely what kind of equiptment.....Could this be the weapons car for each district that people on this board have begged for??? I cannot confirm, anyone else?
The Department does not really care about you! It's cheaper to have a policemans funeral than properly equipt, maintain, and continously train. Remember they were never the working police.
SO YOU GUYS ARE IMPLYING THAT BANGERS CANT AFFORD A NICE PIECE AND THAT POLICE AUTHORIZED WEAPONS ARE HARD TO COME BY...
YOU BETTER HAVE YOUR DUSTY WEAPONS OUT FIRST OFFICE AND QUIT BEING SCARED TO PULL THE TRIGGER.
Jeff said...
From the fnhusa website:
http://www.fnhusa.com/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF003&gid=FNG001&mid=FNM0004
All 5.7x28mm restricted ammunition (armor piercing) is sold only to law enforcement and military agencies. This ammunition is only released and shipped from a U.S. Customs controlled bonded warehouse (CBW) upon BATFE and U.S. Customs approval.
6/06/2007 10:22:00 AM
PLEASE!! ever heard of a banger with body armor? or a crooked gun shop? Chucks comes to mind....by your reasoning, there is no dope available to bangers, because its a controlled substance only allowed for reasearch or restricted prescription. Soooo, a gun only allowed for law enforcement sale, use, or research surely cannot end up on the street? And NOTHING gets past customs, certainly not a PERSON with TB!!! Jeez, wake up. Anyone can get pretty much anything these days. If you try, you can get dope, this gun, some armor, and a partrige in a pear tree.
Anonymous said...
Not to worry. The FN round is junk. It does penetrate most body armor, but then the energy left only penetrates about 1" into the body, nowhere deep enough to cause life-ending injuries.
6/06/2007 11:07:00 AM
an inch into my cocknballs is an inch too far, my friend!
Scared? Then quit. You have not been forced to take this job.
6/06/2007 12:10:00 PM
but we have been forced into using a few brands of pistol with one or two approved calibers and rounds.
SCC,
The FOP's website lists their contract proposals to the city for our new contract. Nowhere do we see a proposal for the end of residency.
Please post a link and a thread for discussion.
Thank You to the Cop on Pulaski this afternoon @ about 4pm from the Police Officer's Wife driving the black BMW + medallion :) You are appreciated!
RIGHT ON THE MONEY, BROTHER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SCC,
The FOP's website lists their contract proposals to the city for our new contract. Nowhere do we see a proposal for the end of residency.
Please post a link and a thread for discussion.
6/06/2007 05:05:00 PM
Residency is a state law for Chicago. It is not a contract issue or will it ever be. Contact your elected offical to make a change.
Did anyone see Mark Brown's article this morning containing the other 4 LT. questions? What a joke those are...SCC will you post all 7?
...Could this be the weapons car for each district that people on this board have begged for??? I cannot confirm, anyone else?...
More babyseats......
Anonymous said...
I am pro-second amandment but this gun has no goddamn legitimacy.
You aren't going to hunt with this fucking handgun.
E-mail your alderman/congressman/senators people, get this shit banned.
6/06/2007 01:35:00 PM
No your not,you are stupid.Let the camel get its nose under the tent,the whole ends up in the tent.Guns are not the problem,people who mis-use guns are!!
Join the NRA.
http://www.nra.org/
A teletype came out today stating that as of the first day of the 7th Period, all of the SUV's delivered to the Districts will be re-assigned as the 20 Sector Sgts car. Per the teletype, this will be to facilitate specialized equiptment which is to be carried by that Sgt-----no mention of precisely what kind of equiptment.....Could this be the weapons car for each district that people on this board have begged for??? I cannot confirm, anyone else?
6/06/2007 04:08:00 PM
Ok, shhhh, this is what I heard..
the SUV will be equipped with, state of the art filing cabinets. Research has found that Sgt's are being inundated with special attentions,and a plethora of medical check requests from every unit city wide and in order to keep these records orderly, Sgt's need more filing cabinets. Really
Additionally, some officers have been working inside so long, they are now physically attached to their cubicles. In order to re-acclimate them back into working patrol, the department will need to move these officer's cubicles, computers and all, into the SUV.
They will then sit at their stations, and while being weaned off surfing the internet,observe how real police actually work. Really
Sorry, but a new weapon order and every rifle made is not going to save you if someone has the drop on you, especially with one of these weapons, We would have to have armored vehicles as squads.
This is absolutely nothing to worry about, just more blather from the libs and another reason to start banning things. I got news for ya', any rifle will penetrate your vest. Rifles have always been around and were still here right. Stop your worrying it won't do you a damned bit of good. I heard the guy on the news today on my way in,"whahh the bad guys have this new gun and ,mommy we might get hurt.whahh,whahh", what a wuss.
"I am pro-second amandment but this gun has no goddamn legitimacy."
Hmmnnn........
You are so pro second amendment that you can't even spell it right!?
Instead of banning a rarely seen, inanimate object why don't you try and "ban" the sub-humans that steal and misuse firearms in crime?
CY6
What are the Chicago cops carrying these days that you feel outgunned?
-----------------------------------
We are carrying nothing but a handgun, THAT is why we are outgunned.
God bless anyone who is now or ever was in the Untied Stated Armed Forces!
.....Could this be the weapons car for each district that people on this board have begged for??? I cannot confirm, anyone else?
6/06/2007 04:08:00 PM
___________________________________
Though I applaud the effort to have heavy weapons for every district, have you ever called for a taser and the Sgt that has it refuses to answer the radio or will not come at all after the spray is ineffective. The same will happen with this too. Some Sgt's refuse to use a taser because they are afraid of a lawsuit from "inducing" a heart attack. I've had many that I've worked for that won't even check one out for the day--that's the thanks us blueshirts get. Then they cry when they have to fill out multiple IOD reports, well you should have had the taser then. Before all the Sgt's get pissed, I'm not saying all, just some.
I suppose now all the 2 yr. vets will want something bigger and badder than the FN 5.7, so they can pretend they are a lot safer and that their pricks are longer. HA-HA-HA
yeah, lets take an M-16 into a domestic like the Park Ridge officer had. Great, then when some loon gets it away from you or your partner and kills you and a bunch of civilians, then it could be said how cool you looked walking up into that domestic with a big, bad M-16, Tard-O -Boy
Get a F*ckin% Clue.
The Department does not really care about you! It's cheaper to have a policemans funeral than properly equipt, maintain, and continously train. Remember they were never the working police.
Bang. Chicago...murder capital of the world. yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I wear my pin with pride.
May the gangbangers kill each other will glee.
Here is the simple answer about the 57 over-rated round. The so-called victims lived just like over 60% of all shooting victims.
Gun bans will never protect you or make you safer but keeping your own skill and training up yo date will.
Contract proposals have been posted on the fop website.
Few things for me to bitch about.
One is going for 10 hours days only for 2 and 3 watch rapids to be placed by bid. I would like to see the survey the union did regarding work schedules. I would put a million dollars down that not one person said lets get 10 hour days but only for 2 and 3 watch rapids. The other huge problem is that I have no rapids on 3rd watch and even on 1st watch many a days so how the fuck would this work. What happens when there are not enough people to fill the beat cars for a day? Do those who bid and won the rapid spot still get to work a 10 hour day but start at a bt time??????
Also I do recall the whole purpose of getting a ten hour day or the change of work schedule was to get ride of the SIX day work week. Who is the bright one to come up with SIX on a three off?
FUCK THE SIX DAY WORK WEEK
Every squad car in the nation should have a long RIFLE in it. It is unconscionable after the North Hollywood bank shootout every police car in the nation hasn't been outfitted with a rifle.
OFF SUBJECT
RESIDENCY IS A STATE THING BUT IF THE CITY SIGNED OFF THAT THEY WERE NOT ENFORCING IT JUST LIKE THE ILLEGAL ALIEN BULLSH#T THEN IT WOULD FLY.
GUYS YOU NEED TO THINK OUT OF THE BOX. I KNOW YOU FELLAS HAVE SOME COLLEGE BUT ANYTHING CAN BE DONE. YOU THINK THE GOVENOR CARES ABOUT RESIDENCY.
THE FOP DONATES VERY LITTLE MONEY COMPARED TO OTHER UNIONS. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
to:
6/06/2007 07:51:00 PM
YEAH, I fucking wish. I'm getting so sick of some of these desk people. They talk to us like we're some thugs on the street, while they haven't been on the streets in years...
How long would it take for SWAT to make it on scene? 20-30 min? This department better wake up. There are sleeper cells in this country just waiting. This city is not prepared for a 9/11 similar attack. WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!
Actually, there's nothing really wrong with the firearms we carry now, or the calibers. While I like the .40 cal., I can't see investing in anything new at this stage of my career (leaving in about 19 months, new home in Ariz.
already under construction). I have been carrying a .45 for about the last 17 years. It has saved my life, and I just can't see carrying anything else. No, it's not a fast bullet, but it will knock the shit out of anything I hit with it! Seen it firsthand.
I think more officers need to get to the range and actually get comfortable with their sidearm.
I don't think long guns on the street are a totally wrong idea, but WHO will be responsible for carrying them? Do you guys think they would not be stolen out of our cars, especially now that we have to MINDFUL OF PARKING LEGALLY EVERYWHERE NOW? And with all the administrative duties that Sgts. have, would it really be in our best interest to burden THEM with the responsibility to have them bring them out on the streets for us? Heck, a lot of Sgts. don't even bother to take out the tazer (it's not mandatory, you know). And SORT cars are assigned to the North, South and West sides every day, and they carry heavy weapons (but they're probably all bunched up checking out guys or gals at North Ave beach!).
Anonymous said...
You can't sue the city for this reason.
6/06/2007 12:43:00 PM
What the hell are you smoking! You can sue the city for anything!!!
"The Department does not really care about you! It's cheaper to have a policemans funeral than properly equipt, maintain, and continously train. Remember they were never the working police."
Couldn't have said it better myself
When they are REALLY serious about weapons, they will take my wheel gun as a trade and supply me with something that actually will do the job.
Hey Phil/Richard,
I am going to start carrying my AR-15 in the trunk.
You can fire me if I have to use it, at least I will be alive. I'll land on my feet. Of course the city will be sued for tens of millions of dollars.
Or you can do the right thing and properly arm us!
6/06/2007 01:37:00 PM
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Deadly force means you can use anything on hand. You can pick up a sword laying around (dont know why it would be, but, whatever) and lop off their head if the situation warrants deadly force. Just make sure nobody gets you on camera holding the head high in the air to celebrate your victory and please dont tie it to the grill of the squad. You will probably get sued regardless of the method (9mm, ar-15, steamroller, flamethrower, crossbow, a penny, etc.) and rest assured, the department will discipline you harshly, probably fire you for using an unauthorized weapon. The big lawsuits will come if you injure any civilians in the process. If that happens, Im sure the city wont indemnify you for the collateral damage, so good luck in civil court.
Scared? Then quit. You have not been forced to take this job.
6/06/2007 12:10:00 PM
WAAAH, WAAAH! big f'ing cry babies.
Sure you can sue the City for anything, anytime, no legal justification needed. You can spend big bucks on a big firm, minimum 25K to 100K downstroke, no contingency, because lawyers would have no expectation of recovery. You can also get your suit dismissed anytime on a motion after the City has let you spend huge amounts of money to vent your spleen. . . No reason for the City to fuck when you more than willing to do it to yourself.
Better idea, why don't a bunch of you get together with your NRA buddies and file a suit demanding that the City better equip police as a whole. But that really a labor issue subject to collective bargaining, so in all likelihood it would get dismissed, but makes more sense than suing because a PO gets killed on the speculation that had he been better armed, etc.
Bottom line is that the City isn't even required to have its officers armed at all. Nor, are you required to take the job. . . like residency, you knew what you were getting when you hired on. . .
A police officer can not sue the city for negligence Thats correct. Yet a garbage man or streets and san guy can fall and sue the shit out of the city.
Ive been injured a few times...stuff that will bother me in years to come. This city doesnt give a damn about us. Stop the macho tuff guy crap and realize that until we stop, the city wont listen. Why would you go out there and risk your life when you know richie and co. could care less. Ive never worked for a weaker team then this one.
"Anonymous said...
"The Department does not really care about you! It's cheaper to have a policemans funeral than properly equipt, maintain, and continously train. Remember they were never the working police."
Couldn't have said it better myself
When they are REALLY serious about weapons, they will take my wheel gun as a trade and supply me with something that actually will do the job.
6/07/2007 12:50:00 AM"
A wheel gun got the job done for Alvin Weems. It was a textbook one shot stop.
Have you considered taking the NRA Basic Handgun course?
Anonymous said...
Residency is a state law for Chicago. It is not a contract issue or will it ever be. Contact your elected offical to make a change.
6/06/2007 06:39:00
___________________________________
Actually the law does not prohibit negotiation regarding the residency requirement.
What it does do is prevent the issue from being brought before an arbitrator. Hence, an arbitrator cannot overturn it.
If it were negotiated and agreed to, it would be a done deal. With that law in place, we cannot force the issue in arbitration like other cities have done.
"realitycheck said...
You can't sue the city for this reason.
Says who? Cite the statute. The City is home rule and self insured. You can sue them for anything you feel like suing them for. You just need an unscrupulous enough lawyer to file the paper work. By restricting the allowed police weapons and ammunition to underpowered, low grade junk and not qualifying us three or four times a year, and offering additional tactical training as part of continuing education and professional development courses, they've put you in danger without adequete tools. And before the asshole who says "if you don't like it, quit" chimes in, no one here signed up to be cannon fodder. No one here signed up for an honors funeral. No one here signed up to be shit on by citizens and bosses alike. We need better guns. We need more training. And we need it as part of a tour of duty rather than spending time away from our families. FOP? How about it?
6/06/2007 01:34:00 PM"
___________________________________
You think so, huh? The answer you seek can be found here:
Local Governmental and Governmental Employees Tort Immunity Act.
You can hold your breath waiting for your payday!
Your unscrupulous lawyer will not take your case because it will be dismissed on it's face!
Guns? Guns? Why all this fear of guns? New guns? 5.7? Billybob with his 30.06 would mess you up out to 800yds. Its not the gun, but whos behind it.
Not all sergeants are afraid to use tasers. I've tasered six and the only reason I haven't done any lately is because I am now in a unit that doesn't have tasers. I've lobbied for them but to no avail so far. Each time the taser saved a battle where someone would have gotten hurt.
Shit! Those FN 5.7 bullets will simply bounce off the chests of the 009 3rd watch boys! They all believe they are fucking Supercops there....
Cops can't shoot the gun they carry now, and won't do any better with a so called better gun. If you don't practice with what you carry now what makes you think you'l do better with a glock?
SHUT THE FUCK UP FATSTAVICH!!!! YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED DUDE!!!!!!
30 rounds a year, and 99% of the cops dread shooting that many.
You recieve a clothing allowance. You can use a very small amount of it to to buy some ammo and range time. If your department isn't training to shoot then train your self. It's your life.
Boy, anyone that thinks they are ever going to see shotguns and M-16s in the squad cars is living in a dream land.
Its never going to happen. So forgetaboutit.
" Anonymous said...
You recieve a clothing allowance. You can use a very small amount of it to to buy some ammo and range time. If your department isn't training to shoot then train your self. It's your life.
6/09/2007 06:07:00 AM"
Even moreso, it's about the innocent bystanders' lives. The NYPD has proved that time after time, and not to their credit. "Guns" or "American Handgunner" once ran an interview with a consultant who'd been called in by the NYPD after a particularly embarassing series of shootings in which officers had killed or wounded uninvolved bystanders through egregiously poor marksmanship. He was shocked at the relative number of officers who didn't appear to know what the front sight was for...
Ever watch COPS, all the coppers on the show have sexy, sleek, cool looking guns. Currently a fashionable fire arm, like hair jel.
<< Home