J-Fed Sworn In
Yeah, it's Friday's news covered on a Saturday. But it's still interesting reading.
Tribune link. Sun Times link.
Tribune link. Sun Times link.
- Jody P. Weis took over Friday as Chicago's police superintendent, accepting the seemingly contradictory tasks of showing the public he is serious about rooting out bad cops while convincing the department's 13,000 officers that he has their back.
The first outsider to lead the department in more than 40 years, Weis was sworn in Friday and then held his first news conference, facing several questions about the credibility of the department in the wake of misconduct scandals.
The career FBI agent and supervisor said he is considering how to improve accountability, including a panel that would review police shootings to see whether they could have been avoided by better training or different procedures.
Time will tell.
Labels: new super
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
69 Comments:
J-Fed is just that a FED...Feds are not friends of the police.
He does not deserve to wear our uniform!!
Each and everyone one of us earned the right the wear the uniform. We all sat through the Academy, 99.9% of us worked the street at least for a minute or two. We all are bound by the contract - seniority, shift work, furlough picks and all the rest of the bs. During our entire careers whether it 1 day or 40 years we have dealt with this screwed up mayor and his city. We live in this city because we have no choice. We pay a crap load for sales tax, real-estate taxes and private schools for our kids. Being the police we can barely afford our own home let alone pick the neighborhood we want to live in. JUST BY CHOOSING CPD AS A CAREER WE ALL DESERVE THE RIGHT TO WEAR THE UNIFORM!!!
J Fed comes to this city without a clue making $310k plus a nice pension from the G and some people want to call him a policeman and allow him to wear our uniform...I Don’t think that is fair to any of us. At $310k he is not a policeman and should not pretend to be one. Why not just put our uniforms on e bay maybe some movie stars may want to sit in as bosses as well.
I welcome J fed obviously nobody wanted the job that is why Da Mayor had to pay up $$$.
J Fed if you are out here just don't disrespect the uniform...stay in a suit!!! You will get more respect that way.
I say...give him a chance.
He already has said some positive things about the street blue-shirts.
We all know he has a lot of political pressure to deal with.
For me, I'll take a 'Wait and See' posture, for now.
Stay Safe my brothers!
Good job with Grau. Most coppers approve. Now restore morale in Patrol and dump CW. He is a pompus bully who hasn't met the education requirements that we ask of our current promotees , this is an insult to every patrolman who sits for an exam.
J-fed may be sworn in,i beg to differ who is in charge. I was at borders at Irving and Harlem and in the urinal stall it says "seiser runs it" too funny!
Does a backetball coach wear the uniform? Does a football coach wear the uniform? Does the general manager of a baseball team wear a uniform? Does the President of the United States wear the uniform?
J-fed is a CEO of the CPD he should NEVER be in a uniform!! It is even more disrecpectful for him to be in uniform at funerals... he is not a copper! If he wears the uniform it not only disrespects the uniform but it is discrecpects each and every one of us who earned that right. I welcome you and wish you the best...but just don't disrecpect us. PLEASE stay in your suit!!
By statute, the president's salary is $400K;
the vice president's is $181,400.
J-Fed $310k
I hope he's worth it!!!
If not maybe we can get Dick Chaney for less!!
Dana Starks is a rat.
he was the one that was leaking info of the investigation between the southside sgt and the meeks traffic stop.
that is why Starks was removed from the first dep. office so stop all your "im a white police officer ans i support you dana" you make me fuckin sick. think of the oath and integrity.
that was a jagoff move plain and simple
Completing academy training is not enough to earn the uniform. Many that gradaute should have been fired and they extended probation to weed out unqualifed PPO's. With his federal background, and meeting standards set by the training board, he will be qualified to carry a weapon and wear a uniform. I suppose a recruit who finishes probation then is immediately moved to a inside job is something to be proud of? Many candidates wanted this job. You sound like a very bitter and frustrated officer. We desperately need change otherwise there would have been a federal take over. Corruption and clout was rampant/ Cline ruined us. I do not care if he has a star or uniform. We need change.
JODY, LIFT THE RESIDENCY, WE HAVE RIGHTS TOO!
I agree with those saying we should at least give him a chance, but I also agree with those saying he should not wear the uniform.
If you are reading this Supt...
YOU ARE NOT A COP! AND NEVER WILL BE. PLEASE, DON'T WEAR THE UNIFORM OF ONE.
Anonymous said...
Good job with Grau. Most coppers approve. Now restore morale in Patrol and dump CW. He is a pompus bully who hasn't met the education requirements that we ask of our current promotees , this is an insult to every patrolman who sits for an exam.
2/03/2008 03:21:00 AM
Your right cw and maria maher have to go get the broom boss! Time for some more politcal house cleaning! Grau was and is a great choice morale can improve thanks!
give rodney a chance give rodney a chance!
-jackie the jokeman
Here is the best thing J-FED has said "I will have their back," Weis said. "I will give the officers the benefit of the doubt 100 percent of the time, as long as they are doing their job the right way." I am looking forward and staying positive on this man I will now give him the benefit of the doubt..........Thanks a working copper
JUST BY CHOOSING CPD AS A CAREER WE ALL DESERVE THE RIGHT TO WEAR THE UNIFORM!!!
------------------------
That statement couldn't be more true.
Isn't it great that signing up and having a city address are the only real requirements to be a CPD officer.
Can't pass the state test? We'll give you the answers.
Can't shoot? Keep trying with all the other recruits that can't. Eventually your scattered bullets will land on someone else's target and theirs on yours.
Couldn't pass a second grade english or handwritting class? Your already better than half the department.
Can't do 20 situps? Wear khakis for a couple of weeks until that instructor who passes everyone returns from furlough.
Don't want to work on the street? Hey baby, there's a spot in the commander's office for you.
Don't want to arrest anyone? Don't.
Coppers have died in this uniform and, today, 90% of the people on this deparment are not fit to dig their graves.
God forbid, someone who worked 20 years in law enforcement and moved up to one of the highest positions in the FBI, puts on a CPD uniform.
1 day or 40 years we have dealt with this screwed up mayor and his city.
Daley is out today pushing for Obama. As we all know he wants Obama in and Patrick Fitzgerald out. Daley in the white house. Imagine that
I'll wait and see also. Also, having a news blackout after a police shooting seems to be working. Maybe the nice jewish lady from LA has a point.
Hopefully IRPA won't do what they do in LA and put out an officer's name, years on the job, his unit, etc when they do describe up a shooting.
JUST BY CHOOSING CPD AS A CAREER WE ALL DESERVE THE RIGHT TO WEAR THE UNIFORM!!!
-------------------------------
You pretty much contradict your whole argument with this statement. Supt. Weis, at this particular time in his career, is chosing to serve the Chicago Police Dept. Please don't try to make the argument that 6 months in the academy earn us the right to wear the uniform. There are guys and girls on this job that are an insult to the uniform from day 1 of their careers. I think we can all think of more than one person on this job who never should have stepped foot in the academy, let alone graduated from it. I believe you earn the right to CONTINUE to wear it, along with our stars. Supt. Weis has served in law enforcement (and yes, there are other law enforcement entities outside of the CPD, believe it or not) for longer than many of us. Why not give the man at least a chance to serve honorably in our uniform?
I've never seen such intense non-stop competition for salad tossing at Fort Kool-Aid.
I also give the new Sup a chance to prove himself to the blueshirts.A great start would be the dumping or resignations of those big shot exempts who have fucked up beyond all recognition the Chicago Police Department.
To SCC;
I'm a nobody(no clout), but I heard from an exempt at fridays meeting that the new supt. was going to the range to qualify (which apparently already happened), then he was going to take some mandatory classes at the academy which he will need for the state test, and after he passes, he WILL be a sworn member, same as every one else. He's is not trying to up anyone. He is more than qualified from his training at the FBI, and has a diverse background (which is more than anyone I can think of in this administration). The FBI academy is a little tougher than the CPD academy, so lets cut him a little slack.
He did not come here begging to get on and wear a uniform, his name was recommended to the mayor as a candidate (from the feds). And I don't think we will ever know the real story on why his honor chose him (or was forced to?).
But putting all that aside, let the man have a chance. This uniform issue is silly, just silly!
His law enforcement expertise comes from different areas, and we will have to wait and see if he can be independent of city hall?
Right now, he just wants to fit in and is trying to get the required training under his belt.
Does he need to do all this? Absolutely NOT! He is no different than any alderman who after getting elected or appointed by the mayor gets a police badge and can carry a gun. Who trains them, nobody!
In the early 60's after the Summerdale scandal, A Blue Ribbon committee was enacted to find a new supt., O.W.Wilson was the head of the panel (he was from L.A.). The panel told the mayor that of all the people interviewed, O.W. was the best qualified (he did'nt apply for the job either but was recommended). Old man daley offered him the job and he took it. It cost daley a ton of money as O.W. was buying new stuff like crazy, promoting a ton of new sgt's, buying cars, etc. (daley was pissed but could not say anything).
Fast forward to 1972, police scandals move CPD to start a new Super Secret Corruption Unit (C-5) headed by Mitchell Ware, a civilian, (snitch along with Mitch was the saying). He interviewed hundreds of p/o's to join the unit.
And most of these interviews were not voluntary, they ordered most of the new recruit classes to go, because they wanted new faces, but most of those chosen were the old clout turds who were looking for an easy job with wheels, and had powers way above a D/C.
The unit was a dismal failure!
Mitchell Ware had the Gold Star and gun with no training.
Point is; This obsession with the uniform means nothing, you are working for a company, get over it!
Do your job and don't worry about the next guy. Go home, enjoy your free time and your family and friends! Life too short to worry about your uniform.
If you were in private industry, you would just learn to accept these changes or be fired, plain and simple.
Once again, let the man have a chance. Maybe he will be good for us, maybe not, but get over it already.
Like it or not, he is our new boss. Give him a chance, maybe he will be great maybe he will suck dont know till he has that chance to show us. He named Grau, that is one good thing. Got rid of the swipe order thats 2.
Expect changes dont bitch cause you know they are coming. Adapt!
Be safe boys and girls.
O.W.Wilson never wore a uniform. Who gives a shit?
"the department's 13,000 officers"
I think that number is a "little" high.
how about stripping sgt hitney for her actions at the site of the fatal plane crash.
"J-FED sworn in"; and sworn at by the ghetto revs...........
You'll miss Cline
All we are asking is give weis a chance................................................................
If you cops were allowed to pick your leader we'd still have dirty cops like that Jerome whatever his name was from the SOS. Weis is going to be great for the city and he's got no political agenda or connections to anyone so he has nobody to please. You should be happy. Who'd you rather have? Dana Starks? He's an incompetent. Grow to like Weis, because he's your boss now, and he's gonna weed out all the dirty cops who don't deserve to wear the uniform.
WHERE DOES THIS NUMBER OF 13,000 OFFICERS COME FROM? DOES THAT INCLUDED DISABILITY PO'S & THOSE ON LEAVE...BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY WE HAVE 13,000...A NEW CLASS OF PPO'S HAS NOT STARTED IN AWHILE...AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT RETIRE EVERY MONTH IS ABOUT 50...TELL THE TRUTH WITH THE CORRECT NUMBER OF PO'S WILL YOU CPD...
I agree that J-Fed should wear a suit only~think of all of our fallen officers that died wearing our uniform and doing the job no one else wants.....
I agree to wait and see. J-Fed has is being watched by all. Let's see how he handles the Revs and Da Mayor while boosting morale. sounds like a circus juggling act with sticks of fire.
It cost daley a ton of money as O.W. was buying new stuff like crazy, promoting a ton of new sgt's, buying cars, etc. (daley was pissed but could not say anything.............
The Sup. of CPD is not authorized to buy anything. As flawed as the
bidding procedure in Chicago is....it does not run through his office, he can make recommendations and requests, which have to be approve somewhere else, by someone else.
J Fed is not choosing a career with the Chicago Police Department he chose a career with the FBI. He just signed a 3 year contract with the CPD for $310k. A 3 year contract is not the same as choosing a career. He will not get a CPD pension!! He will just use the CPD as a steping stone for something better. Which is fine that's what it's all about...good for him. I think he may be able to do a good... job just not in OUR UNIFORM!!!
then he was going to take some mandatory classes at the academy which he will need for the state test
**State test was waived
WHAT CHICAGO POLICE CAREER CONSISTS OF $310K FOR 3 YEARS????
NO SUCH ANIMAL!!!!
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE CPD TO BE THE BIG BOSS...JUST NO UNIFORM!!
- You sound like a very bitter and frustrated officer - I'm not bitter at all. I just think we sre all blue and that we should stick togather...blue is all we have left on this job.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is the primary investigative arm of the United States Department of Justice (DOJ), serving as both a federal criminal investigative body and a domestic intelligence agency. At present, the FBI has investigative jurisdiction over violations of more than 200 categories of federal crimes, making the FBI the de-facto lead law enforcement agency of the United States government.[1] The motto of the bureau is "Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity".
DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE CPD???
You guys are clowns about the uniform. Oh, some guys died in uniform.
Guess what? A lot of POs died out of uniform. Was Riordan in uniform at Marina Towers? Knight? Camp?
You guys who buy into this BS show one of the greatest problems out there right now. You sound like inbred hillbillies trying to protect some mythical "honor" that comes along with the clown suit. 85% of the department in or out of uniform shouldn't have this job, and about 15% of the department does 98% of the work. You want to quibble about uniforms or what you "earned" going to the BS academy? Start with yourselves, or your coworkers, your bosses, your underlings.
Who give a flying fuck whether the guy wears a uniform? If it were up to me, he'd start knocking the do-nothing 85% who "earned" their uniforms back in line, and I don't care if he does it while dressed like a clown.
And don't even get me started on the "supervisors" and what should be done with most of them.
"the department's 13,000 officers"
I think that number is a "little" high.
2/03/2008 03:56:00 PM
Yeah, about 4500 too high.
Who gives a F&%K if J-Fed wears a uniform. BUT, in my humble opinion, I think he has more moral authority if he wears a suit, and never dons a uniform...ala Garry Schenkle (class act by-the-way). So far J-Fed is two for two. I have high hopes, and wish him well. Just the fact that he's not one of the current crop of stroke exempts makes my day. I too am a patrolman, J-Fed, I beg you, toss as no-clout masses a sop,(aka patrol division) something, anything, that shows you give a shit about us, you will have our loyalty forever. Here's a suggestion, special employment for patrolman (actual beat car patrolmen) only! No house cats, no Dets, no CAPS office mutts, just real call-for-service patrolmen. Demonstrate to us that we are indeed the backbone of this agency.
I'm a nobody(no clout), but I heard from an exempt at fridays meeting that the new supt. was going to the range to qualify (which apparently already happened), then he was going to take some mandatory classes at the academy which he will need for the state test, and after he passes, he WILL be a sworn member, same as every one else. He's is not trying to up anyone. He is more than qualified from his training at the FBI, and has a diverse background (which is more than anyone I can think of in this administration). The FBI academy is a little tougher than the CPD academy, so lets cut him a little slack.
you better put down the crack pipe and not believe everything you hear from a exempt, "" then he was going to take some mandatory classes at the academy which he will need for the state test, and after he passes, he WILL be a sworn member "" the state requires hours of classes and not just take a test. your a moron
Doesn't anyone else out there see this? Come on timers.
Over 25 years I have heard these bosses blame city hall for every stupid knee jerk reaction decision they have made. Its easy for the highest exempts to blame city hall, because who amongst us can go over their head to verify that?
Just three days ago the juveniles on this blog were blaming personnel and city hall for ordering the dept notice on swiping. Our new boss canned that ridiculous notice within four hours of his very first tour of duty, and he didn't have to ask city hall for permission.
Point is that all exempts of cpd history made the idiotic decisions they made, because they wanted to engratiate themselves with city hall for their own self promotion. Not to mention that they are too stupid and scared to actually analyze a problem,develop a practical solution, and own up to that decision.
Historically, exempts thought putting the hammer to those below the rank of lt and running a department by fear and intimidation was the way to get recognized by city hall as a great leader.
Their days of old have finally back fired, with a big thanks to the past two self-serving superintendents. We've all been used and made fools of by your so called good bosses for years.
Our new boss has nothing to prove, he has nothing to fear, because there is nothing for him to gain. He already is the top cop.
So grow up and realize feds don't micro manage, they like big guns, and some, I said some, do know how to work an investigation. I only wish this happened years ago.
"Garry Schenkle (class act by-the-way)."
Well you're in the Minority, he was a Gyrine mush mind in over his head @ the Academy.
Career Bureaucrat that was Full of Crap Nothing More.
Anonymous said...
You'll miss Cline
2/03/2008 04:17:00 PM
Now I can honestly say, with all bull shit aside, Cline is the last person this department will miss. This asshole fucked it up worst than Bush did Iraq.
Does the general manager of a baseball team wear a uniform?
-----------
actually, the manager does, as do the coaches and theyre not out there playing either, just showing theyre part of the team.
I say that since his statements all seem to be about the same: that he wants to root out the corruption and the idiots that steal, lie, and put us all in a bad light, as well as increase the 'professionalism' on the dept and boost morale, lets give him a shot. He might just be what the dept needs right now.
Academy training consists of the 480 hour minimum course required by the Illinois Governmental Law Enforcement Training Board and 300 hours the Chicago Police Department includes to augment the basic training course.
Coppers have died in this uniform and, today, 90% of the people on this deparment are not fit to dig their graves.
---------
I hate to say it but I have to agree.
I'd say its more like 30% but it seems to be the most vocal so it seems like its 90.
I had family on the job and they did real police work and had fun doing it. Granted, the bosses were a lot different back then from what I hear and so was the media and citizenry, but its still the same job. Good guys against the bad guys, right?
Once we figure that out (including the bosses and exempts) maybe we can get back to that.
Here's a suggestion, special employment for patrolman (actual beat car patrolmen) only! No house cats, no Dets, no CAPS office mutts, just real call-for-service patrolmen.
-----------
not a bad idea. then when things happen on special there will be cops that actually handle the job/situation/whatever and arent there to just get the extra pay. It might actually make the people working special employment useful.
man give the guy a break already. he made a choice to come hear and lead the most corrupt big city police dept. yea for alot of money, but i think he has more on his mind then the uniform.
1st thing J-FED we don't want to live in the city we work in, example:
I lock a guy up, two weeks later I'm out and about and this shit head sees me...
lets talk some sense into your Puppet master and get us a residency lift
God forbid, someone who worked 20 years in law enforcement and moved up to one of the highest positions in the FBI, puts on a CPD uniform.
2/03/2008 12:09:00 PM
AMEN! God, of all the things to bitch about! Like our uniform stands for anything anymore anyway!! Shit, no one likes us, we finally get a boss with some qulaifications, and we throw him under the bus before he even starts? WTF? Look to your right, look to your left in role call tomorrow....I bet J Fed has more claim to a cpd uniform than EITHER of the schmucks next to you in role call...if you disagree, please realize that this is due to the fact that you are the schmuck...just ask the guy next to you, he'll tell ya...
Anonymous said...
1st thing J-FED we don't want to live in the city we work in, example:
I lock a guy up, two weeks later I'm out and about and this shit head sees me...
lets talk some sense into your Puppet master and get us a residency lift
2/04/2008 01:36:00 AM
That's because you are not FROM the city. It was a HUUUUUGE mistake when they started hiring whimpy Nancy boys who were born and raised in the suburbs
Here's a suggestion, special employment for patrolman (actual beat car patrolmen) only! No house cats, no Dets, no CAPS office mutts, just real call-for-service patrolmen.
-----------
not a bad idea. then when things happen on special there will be cops that actually handle the job/situation/whatever and arent there to just get the extra pay. It might actually make the people working special employment useful.
You're kidding right? 10% of the department does 90% of the work, always has, always will, so stick your "patrolman" b.s. it will still be the same lazy copper showing up and pawning it off on someone else because it's his day off. Give me a break.
Completing academy training is not enough to earn the uniform.
----------------
Not to be disrespectful to your opinion, but I believe pretty much everyone fresh out of the academy is wearing the uniform.
J-Fed is just that a FED...Feds are not friends of the police.
He does not deserve to wear our uniform!!
SHUT UP. YOU SOUND LIKE LOSER! I LEFT THE CPD MANY YEARS AGO AND IN MY HEART I AM STILL A COPPER. I RESPECT WORKING COPPERS AND IF I SEE A COPPER ON A TRAFFIC STOP I MONITOR THE STOP TO MAKE SURE THE COPPPER IS SAFE.
Former Beat 222 Driver/Itinerant BT 272 Wagon Master/ Proud Working FED
HERE IS AN AWESOME ANALYSIS OF THE FACTS!
Former BT 222 Driver/Itinerant Wagonmaster on 272 The Tact Wagon/Proud Working FED!
The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is the primary investigative arm of the United States Department of Justice (DOJ), serving as both a federal criminal investigative body and a domestic intelligence agency. At present, the FBI has investigative jurisdiction over violations of more than 200 categories of federal crimes, making the FBI the de-facto lead law enforcement agency of the United States government.[1] The motto of the bureau is "Fidelity, Bravery, Integrity".
DOES THIS SOUND LIKE THE CPD???
For all of you LIBERALS out there! We the POLICE do not need any more panels, boards, Independent review authorities, or ASS wiping news reporters to determine whether or not a police SHOOTING was good or bad. None of you shit heads have ever been running down alleys, gangways, turning blind corners, while in pursuit of these halfbred gun toting dirt bags whose mother and father really don't give a crap about them. Until an Officer has to protect him or herself and opens fire killing your little gangbanging son or daughter that points a gun at them. Leave the investigation to the POLICE we can take care ourselves. Oh and by the way HAVE A NICE DAY!
The Keesing Bandit says---
"hiring little Nancy boys from the suburbs..."
Please, please, please send those cuties up here to the districts in A/3. I like to look at them and they would fit in well.
Now, kees me you fool!!!
The Keesing Bandit says---
I think Jody, with that workout body, will look a lot cuter in uniform than our previous leaders.
Wow--Hot Flash!!!
Now, kees me you fool!!!
Our new boss can get a waiver for the training, he has assuredly had more than the 480 hour Illinois course as well as whatever hours are added on for Chicago training. If he wants to be a sworn officer he need only take the state test, and that should be no problem - if he needs to brush up on the stuff on the test and Illinois Law, he can take a refresher course.
But, he doesn't need to do that at all, he is a retired law enforcement officer and thusly can carry a weapon, he has a star and has been sworn in to be the Superintendent. I really don't care if he does or doesn't wear the uniform, and since he can legally carry a weapon by virtue of qualifying, and he has a Chicago Police Department star, why can't he? He is a department member, has been sworn in in front of witnesses and been given a star.
I would rather see him get the waiver and take the State Test before wearing a uniform, but it doesn't matter that much to me..
"Garry Schenkle (class act by-the-way)."
Well you're in the Minority, he was a Gyrine mush mind in over his head @ the Academy.
Career Bureaucrat that was Full of Crap Nothing More.
2/03/2008 10:55:00 PM
**********************
Schenkel was great, I think it is YOU who are in the minority...
RIORDAN DIDN'T DIE IN THE LINE OF DUTY!
Jody is the superintendent of CPD. He should wear the uniform and I hope he wears it proudly. As Reb Tevia said, "TRADITION".
Tradition is what is missing in families and life now a days.
No in reality he didn't die in the line of duty. But they covered it up and made it in the line of duty.
anonymous said...
The Keesing Bandit says---
I think Jody, with that workout body, will look a lot cuter in uniform than our previous leaders.
Agreed. About time us red-blooded girls have something to look at. Our command staff has been woefully lacking in that area.
Excuse me, but Riordan DID die in the line of duty. Whether or not there is any truth to the rumor that he was out having dinner that fateful night in Marina City with a woman other than his wife, when the man who would later shoot him fatally began to act up in the place, Riordan got up from his seat, approached the public peace violator, displayed his badge, and began to escort the guy off the premises. THAT is a LINE OF DUTY DEATH. One could easily assume that he did more than most of today's off duty police would do if they found themselves in a similar situation. Also keep in mind that Riordan was an Exempt, and they are never off duty.
If Dana is a rat, what would you call the sorry beyotch who leaked all that crap about him out to bucketboy Sneed? I would have to say that whoever did that is even lower than a rat!
Not to be disrespectful to your opinion, but I believe pretty much everyone fresh out of the academy is wearing the uniform.
2/04/2008 12:30:00 PM
Some barely passed academy standards. System cannot weed out all unqualified recruits. Wearing a uniform does not make a police officer. JF wore a uniform and he is in prison. Who cares about the uniform. Let J-FED make changes. Iad will change and hopefully academy is next. Change is crucial for the future. Start hiring recruits and put more personnel in cars.
<< Home