Blame in Pittsburgh
Our aim in posting this is not to cast a bad light on OEMC, but to point out that for the job to get done, all the pieces have to work together with minimal muss and fuss. This is not how to do it:
The mother of a man charged with killing three Pittsburgh police officers told a 911 dispatcher he had weapons, but the dispatcher didn't relay that information to officers, the official in charge of county dispatchers says.
The dispatcher should have asked more questions about the weapons, but didn't, and certainly should have told officers so they could take necessary precautions, Allegheny County Chief of Emergency Services Robert Full told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
"There is no excuse. It could have been handled better, without a doubt," Full said in Tuesday's editions.
We know there's a list of questions call-takers are supposed to ask when a 911 call comes in. When we're lucky enough to have a PDT, we see where the data is entered, "No known weapons."
We also know that there are some horror stories out there about walking into a shit storm unaware of what's in the house. There are breakdowns and gaps and sometimes the info is unavailable. It happens. But complacency is the enemy of good police work. There are no "routine" calls just as there are no "routine" traffic stops. "Routine" gets people dead, time and time again.
Pittsburgh initially appears to be a breakdown of the highest order.
We also know that there are some horror stories out there about walking into a shit storm unaware of what's in the house. There are breakdowns and gaps and sometimes the info is unavailable. It happens. But complacency is the enemy of good police work. There are no "routine" calls just as there are no "routine" traffic stops. "Routine" gets people dead, time and time again.
Pittsburgh initially appears to be a breakdown of the highest order.
Labels: safety issues
posted by SCC at 12:02 AM
20 Comments:
Well, what about the third officer? When he responded he KNEW there were weapons at the scene. He responded because he heard there were two officers down already. Knowing more did not change the way he responded at all. He still went in alone. No bit or information was going to prevent him from going in to help his brothers in blue. There is no routine call. Officers have been shot on some of the lowest priority calls. Every call can be the first time for anything, and every call can be the last time for everything.
A dispatcher
Unfortunately, we all get complacent in our jobs. There are things that I still do at domestic calls that, god forbid, could save my life:
1) Never stand directly in the doorway. Knock and step to the side of the door or if it's an apartment, step down a stair or two after knocking. I don't want to be trhat easy target when deranged guy hears a knock and aims directly towards the door
2)Don't just stand with your back to a window. If they want to shoot, the glass aint gonna stop the round
3) look around constantly. Try to see who's watching you
4) on a different note, on ALL traffic stops, if i'm the passenger, my gun is always out and at my side on traffic stops. Doesn't take long to lift it if shit goes bad.
This may be simple academy stuff, but these simple steps could one day save your life. STAY SAFE
A good post SCC, but be heavy handed with the comment moderation. Off topic, great job with site. Really. Great job.
Q) What is the number 1 killer of police responders:
A) Domestic Distrubances, this is a well documented factoid.
"He responded because he heard there were two officers down already. Knowing more did not change the way he responded at all. He still went in alone."
That still doesn't change that a lazy stupid dispatcher denied information to the first two officers that could have saved their lives. You shouldn't be a dispatcher if you can't understand that. That dispatcher has the blood of those first two officers on his or her hands and at least deserves to be fired - and if there was ever an example of 'official misconduct' that should be prosecuted, this is it.
Our regular dispatchers on our zone are great- but when there are subs or they are training people- it's a nightmare. I've seen dispatchers put cars down for lunch on the opposite end of the city or hear them accidently key the mike and they are too busy chortling to be actually listening to the officers. My favorite- oh- I'm sorry I put a car in xx district down on a street in the other or vice a versa - with the excuse I'm a southsider-I don't know the streets. Don't you have a frickin' map in front of you?
Give me a break!
We were all a lot safer when police officers dispatched alongside civilian dispatchers who could learn a bit from those officers.
You, Mr. Dispatch should probably post in the dispatchers board where someone will listen to your whining. This board- we're police- and we understand what going on that kind of call is like0 something you will never understand and certainly aren't will to wrap your tiny brain around if you can make such assinine comments.
A dispatcher
4/08/2009 12:18:00 AM
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All in all, I think for the most part, the dispatchers do a good job. But how can you absolve the dispatcher by asking "what about the third Officer"? HE WENT IN ALONE BECAUSE HE KNEW THERE WERE 2 DOWN OFFICERS THERE!! The point is, had the first 2 Officers knew of the weapons in the house, they may not have entered the residence, possibly opting to requesting an HBT situation.
Trust me, we know the danger the simplest of calls can bring and yes, we too can get lax. But please don't cast stones on the third Officer who I guarantee was trying to come to the aid of his fallen brothers, AT ANY COST!!
If given the PERTINENT information that there were weapons present, this MAY have turned out completely different. Understand, we are walking blindly into these situations, our only information being that which is given to us by the dispatchers. So please, give us anything and everything that may help us do our jobs effectively. Too many times we have to play 20 questions with the dispatchers to get the information that is sitting in front of them.
Many years ago, before PDT's we were given a call of "men with guns/home invasion". With several cars racing to the scene, once entry was gained to the apartment, the residents were dumbfounded as to why we were there. We asked where the call came from, and the dispatchers response? COOK COUNTY JAIL!!! Now why would a dispatcher not find that information important when assigning this job, just so no one would kill themselves getting there? I drove to the station fuming, and called the zone to ask the dispatcher why wouldn't she tell us the origin of the call when it's obvious there's some bullshit involved. Her response....YOU DIDN'T ASK!!
Sorry for the rant. BE SAFE & BACK EACH OTHER UP!
GOD bless the Pittsburgh Police Department and their fallen Officers.
Q) What is the number 1 killer of police responders:
A) Domestic Distrubances, this is a well documented factoid.
-------------------------------
I always thought it was traffic accidents.
How many times have we gone to domestics where they say no weapons and low and behold, you show up and the girl has a knife and the guy has a baseball bat and each one says the other started it....You should always assume they have weapons until you know for a fact yourself that they don't because you have verified it.
The information dispatch gives you is only as good as what joe citizen gives dispatch. Ok, some dispatchers are better than others with getting info from callers but that comes with experience for most and yeah ok, some dispatchers never get better.
I'm not gonna play monday morning quarterback because I wasn't there. I will say this, any dispatcher is told on their first day that when taking a call of a domestic you always ask about weapons. Maybe you get an accurate answer, maybe not but you always ask.
Last but not least, for the cops, unless you've been a dispatcher, don't knock it till you try it. I have seen some cops try being dispatchers and fail miserably. It's not as easy as some may think.
Signed,
Once a Dispatcher.
Now a Cop.
Ever have to call 911 while off-duty? Our CPD call takers almost never ask Joe Citizen for their name/#. "Anonymous?". . . .my ass! We are pathetic.
I WONDER IF THE DISPATCHER WAS A MERIT HIRE.
THIS IS EXACTLY THE REASON PEOPLE WITH ZERO POLICE EXPERIENCE SHOULD NOT BE TAKING CALLS OR DISPATCHING.
THIS SCENARIO HAS THE POTENTIAL OF HAPPENING AGAIN...
911:"Do you have weapons at the scene?.
Caller:"No"
hee hee.
Cops: "blam blam blam blam".
The whole asking if there are weapons is stupid.What next,an on phone polygraph VSA??
I personnaly chastised a OEMC dispatcher over the air for sending a one man car to a domestic with a knife, her response she did not want to down another car on a call. OEMC is nothing more tha a patronage haven.
I miss the days when Dispatchers were Patrolman also. They were old timers who knew the job and had probably run up and down the streets of where you worked. They used the best computers ever made...their brains. The call taker would sit next to the dispatcher and could pass along info instantly. I won't comment on OEMC since I have nothing good to say. Stay safe and come home to your families.
I was out of the car once when dispatch aired an assault occurring in a house in front of me. They flat out refused because of a flag on the address to use universal precautions. I asked several times about guns and knives being involved and they would not tell me what was going on inside. Another officer coming to the call read me the comments from his MCT over the radio. What's the point if they won't give you the information you need?
You, Mr. Dispatch should probably post in the dispatchers board where someone will listen to your whining.
That still doesn't change that a lazy stupid dispatcher denied information to the first two officers that could have saved their lives. You shouldn't be a dispatcher if you can't undersrstand that.
*********************
First of all, I never said the dispatcher was right.
Secondly, if the first two officers had that information, it may of saved their life but you can't say that for sure.
Third, by calling me Mr. Dispatcher you are doing what gets some officers killed, assuming WRONG. I am a Mrs. Dispatcher.
Fourth, the Chicago Dispatchers board is closed.
Fifth, whining is what you did in your post.
/08/2009 04:16:00 AM
Anonymous said...
Q) What is the number 1 killer of police responders:
A) Domestic Distrubances, this is a well documented factoid.
4/08/2009 05:57:00 AM
I thought so too, and was rudely corrected that traffic stops is the #1.
most of the dispatchers in our system are only giving us info. which they get from the call takers. call takers are not in the same area/room as our dispatchers. DON'T TAKE ANYTHING FOR GRANTED, AS IT WAS STATED HERE BEFORE.WHEN YOU GET THE CALL, YOU ARE GOING TO BE THE CALL TAKER, DISPATCHER, AND THE FIRST OFFICER TO ENCOUNTER THE THREAT!
Aren't all of you doing what you hate that the citizens do to you? Criticizing a job you know nothing about?
"Aren't all of you doing what you hate that the citizens do to you? Criticizing a job you know nothing about?
4/09/2009 10:36:00 PM"
Not exactly nothing, not even close to nothing.
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