Scandal Falling Apart
As a result, it appears more and more like J-Fed was brought here under false pretenses. The Department as a whole was never "out of control" and much of the alleged wrongdoing seems to be a media driven creation:
- Very quietly, the Chicago Police Department has given badges back to three police officers who had been caught up in the Special Operations Section scandal and relegated to desk jobs as part of the ongoing investigations into wrongdoing, department officials confirmed today.With police powers restored, Greg Insley, Dave Case and Paul Zogg can return to the street and real police work, department officials said. For Case, reinstatement brought a promotion, from sergeant to lieutenant. The officers could not be reached for comment, or declined to comment publicly about their reinstatements.
And word is trickling in that a fourth Officer who was cleared in court, received his gun back and is again on the payroll. How many more will be cleared before it's all over? Aside from two people, this is starting to look like another politically motivated clusterfuck and not entire teams out of control.
Labels: scandals
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
163 Comments:
Insley and Zogg are GREAT guys. Zogg served --3-- tours in Iraq. What they did to him is terrible. Let it be a lesson to ALL OF YOU.
CONGRATS G.I.!!!
95-6A
I wonder if this, along with the CS and TS name clearing will get front page coverage for weeks on end? The damage is done... And such an injustice... We have a black eye at the hands of the bully! Chicago media will just as quietly cover this injustice... names are being cleared and nothing is being said... Where is Goudie on this one? Where is the investigative report on the media witch hunt? Where is the apology from the media, the reverends, or the mayor? Everyone was so quick to cry foul and bitch about a dirty department... now it is being swept away... what a joke... what a sad atate... ouor names have been dragged through the mud yet no one is around to say "hey, they arent the boogey man"... WHERE IS THE UNBIASED MEDIA TO SAY "SORRY, WE FUCKED UP?!" Until that happens, I am not doing shit, and I dont care what the mayor or jfed thinks about it! 1st and 16th thats it... go get chuck goudie to run into that school I AINT DOING IT!!!
The case is falling apart because the so-called "victims" are all pieces o'shit who supposedly can't keep their stories straight, because they were all bullshit LIES to begin with.
If I'm one of those officers who were stripped, you better believe I'm going to sue for malicious prosecution.
Welcome back, officers!
Tooo bad all of us in the unit already knew this was F'n BS from the get go.
I hope they all get an atty and sue the #$%%^ out of the city. To all you who labled us EAT SHIT!
old 153 coppur
"Let He without sin cast the first stone..." go back to the archives and see how many "patrolman" threw our brothers under the bus. Quick to judge....was it jealousy? or just plain hate? United we stand! I have your back! yet in the face of a brewing storm the rats jumped ship, I am a proud member of the ol' 153 that towed the line in the face of the storm and is proud to carry the brick placed upon his shoulder I wear it like a badge of honor.I have learned a valuable lesson about the character of our "brothers in blue"
The media and politicians make such a big stink about cops getting into trouble, but when their names are cleared and found not guilty of wrong doing then why aren't they making a big deal about that too!
Bet they won't put that on the news though, it just doesn't sell and fit into their master POlice hating plan.
And another thing I remember when this story broke and there were more than a few people (Coppers)talking shit about SOS and presuming their guilt, well now what do you have to say for yourselves. By the way I never worked in SOS, I just hate when we as Policeman jump to conclusions and talk smack about feloow officers.
Speaking of "media driven creations" which manipulate public opinion, do check my two comments on the SCC thread entitled "Merit Pool to Grow?"(scroll down 12 threads).
This involves the the Sun-Times' and Tribune's cavalier use of the word "merit" as used by the City of Chicago in describing their rigged promotion and assignment processes.
I will promptly post the responses of editors Paul Saltzman (Sun-Times) and Peter Kendall (Tribune).
As far as the local radio and TV news, in this context, City of Chicago "merit" should be prefaced with "so-called". To do otherwise is nothing more than a flagrant, odious and deliberate attempt to mislead the public.
Both of my comments are self-explanatory. I have yet to receive a response from either newspaper.
Unless and until the City provides a categorical and unequivocal written definition of "merit" (CLOUT) which is consistent with the actual dictionary definition of this word, ZERO "meritorious promotions".
I submit that it is the sacred responsibility of a vigilant media to report the truth. Then and only then can we begin to bring desperately needed reforms to the CPD. Ultimately, the public will receive the police service which they deserve.
Long overdue congratulations to the three exonerated police officers.
Hey SCC, you want to see some VERY pissed off cops? Take a look at this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1239003734
The scandel is falling apart, because THERE WAS NO SCANDLE!!!!! All of these guys did great police work and were rewarded with being stripped and indicted. Great to have you guys back!!!! You deserve an apology from the city and even an apology from some fellow officer's. Glad to see the truth finally come out!!
congrats to zogg and insley-- two good cops who were treated like shit and have been vindicated. now do you really think that these two guys will do anything on this job again. i hope not--
Thank God!
This is one of the many examples of innocent officers being destroyed; and succumbing to the horrors of IAD's incompetencies and the CPD's unjust disciplinary process.
There are other officers fighting for fairness, objectivity and impartiality in their disciplinary cases.
Until the injustices incurred by all innocent officers are rectified, there will be no peace within the rank and file.
Unjust punishment is at the root of the collapse of morale on the job.
This is a huge step in the right direction, nonetheless.
Complete methodical investigations take talent and time to either prove guilt or innocence.
The cowtowing to appease the public and special interest groups has led to many officers being unjustly stripped, charged, humiliated, suspended and terminated.
What you do to one, you do to all!
There will be no peace without justice for the police!
I have watched officers literally destroyed to satiate individual vendettas.
What is done in darkness will eventually be brought to light.
The days of two disciplinary systems must end. There should only be one system with fair, objective, impartial and "REASONABLE" standards; not one for those with "clout" and those without "clout".
Utilizing the disciplinary system to arbitrarily and unjustly punish someone is a violation of that individual's civil rights.
Politically motivated career assassination must end.
To bad all of us involved knew from the beginning this was a bunch of bs. We just didn't know how many innocent people would be hung out to dry after giving their all every day they showed up.
Sure there still is a handful of people that are going to o be indicted, and rightfully so. However the amount can be counted on one hand. That happens everywhere. Wasn't a unit thing. Don't worry Mr. Mayor, Don't worry MR Superintendent....... You don't have to apologize to the 2% of us that did 90% of the hardest lifing in the department day after day.
I hope that the Mayor has set aside some of those stashed billions to pay for these officer's damages.
Maricopa County Coppers Fedup with the Media and Political Whores.
Police officers are fighting back, it's about time.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1239003734
THIS IS A MUST WATCH!
The media was a willing accomplice....The Reverends wanted Phatty out and Starks in. Jackie Heard hated Phatty and did everything she could to undermine his position. Jackie and the "Revruns" skillfully used the SOS and Abbate things to force Daley to turn on Cline.
Never let a crisis go to waste......
Worked up to a point... and then backfired. The smarter "Revruns" knew that Cline was the best friend they ever had and allowed a massive redeployment of Officers to the 'hood from taxpaying areas.
The good thing is April 7th is cha ching day.
That's $450 clear I didn't have yesterday. No fucking thanks to scum sucking alderman beale. That will pay two bills with enough left over for lunch and some MegaMillions tickets.
Vote ofr PULIDO TODAY for Congress.Get your unit/family out,she is a true friend to the police.
Paul should have never been down there. Welcome back Paul. You're a great officer and a class act.
ot
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/04/city-contractor-accused-of-skirting-hiring-law.html
The whole SOS problem was cased by a sgt. who was clueless and a lt. that wanted to be made commander. Finally a couple cops who believed the lt, when he told them he would protect them. Thats it no culture of secret evil, just a case of greed and stupidty by a very few. Black hoodies did not turn good cops bad. A bad lt led cops astray.
it took 2 yrs to figure out that insley was NOT there. i hope he's planning a civil suit
This is just like what the dept did when Joe Miedz got arrested. Typical paranoid self serving exempt knee jerk reaction.
Hillard moved then cmdr radeny out of gangs just prior to the arrest, figuring they needed to protect him from the "expected" backlash.
Hillard labeled all gang guys as criminals and thieves, and then simply abolished the unit to prove his point to the media and politicos. If he would have waited until the full investigation was completed, Hillard would have learned that Joe operated alone, plus minus one.
That stupid move of dismantling a most productive investigative unit full of decades of gang intelligence is costing the city many lives today and will continue to do so for decades to come thanks to our former supt.
I'm sure the media will say sorry for dragging good names through the mud.
I wonder if the alleged stool pigeon
is going to land on his feet also, like he did in 015?
O.T. "U.S. fighter jets chase stolen plane over 3 states"
They mention Michigan, Wisconsin and Missouri.
Am I the only one that noticed something very peculiar regarding the above story. A Canadian citizen from Turkey that stole an airplane in Canada then flew to Missouri that was intercepted by
F 16's. All the stories mention that he flew over Michigan and Wisconsin, even having the Wisconsin Capitol evacuated. Last I checked, Wisconsin and Missouri don't touch, maybe this guy flew right through Chicago. Wouldnt want that security threat in the media during this great big Olympic committee visit. SCC, I think we need to dig a little deeper into this one. Were we not notified of a possible threat to our fine city.
Media Alert>>>Hello!!!!!!
SO WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE STATES ATTORNEY DROPPED ALL THEIR PREVIOUS ARREST CASES WITHOUT NOTICE!
THE STATE JUST LET A WHOLE BUNCH OF BAD GUYS OFF THE HOOK. ISNT THE SAME THING HAPPENING W/ THOSE OFFICER WHO RIGHT DUI'S.
SOUNDS LIKE THE STATE HAS 2 MUCH POWER THE CITY MAKES ARREST AND THE STATE CAN JUST SHIT CAN CASES B-CUZ THEY THINK OFFICERS ARE CORRUPT!
AND U SO-CALLED DUI EXPERTS BETTER WATCH THAT ASS B-CUZ A LITTLE BIRD TOLD ME THE ASA R GOING TO BE LOOKING A LOT HARDER AT THE OFFICER WRITING DUI'S. AND NOT IN A GOOD WAY!
I HOPE THAT MOTHER AGAINST DRUNK DRIVING AWARD IS WORTH IT!!!
very happy for the insley family, as well as the others who were put back where you belong. I'm very sorry that you were prosecuted in the courts of public opinion by the almighty media. Find a nice quiet spot, and collect a check, my friends!
I'm glad they each their jobs back. I'm sure the witch hunt will continue and the criminals have been emboldened.
I just left second messages for the respective editors of the Sun-Times (Paul Saltzman) and the Tribune (Peter Kendall) regarding my earlier posts about the word "merit", as used by the City of Chicago.
I further specify that their responses be in writing for publication on SCC.
Their detailed written responses should be forwarded via eMail ASAP to the two following addresses:
sccmaillist@yahoo.com
cpdfop7@yahoo.com
Upon receipt, their verbatim responses will be posted on SCC for your scrutiny. Both should include their direct office phone numbers to authenticate their respective eMail replies.
Next, the major local TV news. In this context, they should preface the word "merit" with "so called".
Wow, you mean they disbanded a unit with over 200 officers because of 2 bad apples?
This one isn't hard to figure out. These 3 officers were in call back for 18 months. This was before J-Fed, therefore it can't be on his watch. These 3 officers were the product of a Dana Starks bid to "clean up" the department, and his self centered attempt to become Superintendant. It was racially motivated, and is a classic example of the enemy within. I know all 3 officers, and they are top notch guys. I wish them nothing but the best, and to their family.
To the unpublished commentator, we were the ones saying that the Officers had to be judged by a jury of 12, not a media maelstrom. Nice try with the rewriting of history. You could run for mayor with that level of stupidity.
Comment deleted.
Maricopa County Coppers Fedup with the Media and Political Whores.
Police officers are fighting back, it's about time.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1239003734
THIS IS A MUST WATCH!
4/07/2009 03:42:00 AM
After the great success of April 2nd outside City Hall, to those of you who are wondering what to do next, this is a lesson.
NOBODY is going to stand up for you!!! You must stand up for yourselves!! Get your message out there because the media will not do it. It takes guts to be the police - it takes a different kind of guts to put your face out there and stand up for what you believe in.
Start putting messages like this out there and the media will have them on the nightly news! The average public has no clue! Educate them!
Media Alert>>>Hello!!!!!!
4/07/2009 07:47:00 AM
Hello??? and this guy is a so-called Candadian from Turkey??? Didn't Obama make a speech in Turkey yesterday? Please don't say this is going to be swept under the rug. It stinks.
Hey SCC you gotta make this a thread. This happens all the time with our shitty call takers:
PITTSBURGH – The mother of a man charged with killing three Pittsburgh police officers told a 911 dispatcher he had weapons, but the dispatcher didn't relay that information to officers, the official in charge of county dispatchers says.
The dispatcher should have asked more questions about the weapons, but didn't, and certainly should have told officers so they could take necessary precautions, Allegheny County Chief of Emergency Services Robert Full told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.
"There is no excuse. It could have been handled better, without a doubt," Full said in Tuesday's editions.
"The media and politicians make such a big stink about cops getting into trouble, but when their names are cleared and found not guilty of wrong doing then why aren't they making a big deal about that too!
4/07/2009 12:36:00 AM"
They're allergic to crow.
The case is falling apart because the so-called "victims" are all pieces o'shit who supposedly can't keep their stories straight, because they were all bullshit LIES to begin with.
If I'm one of those officers who were stripped, you better believe I'm going to sue for malicious prosecution.
Welcome back, officers!
4/07/2009 12:15:00 AM
NOW is the state's atty going to start PROSECUTING liars and junkies who make up lies to win the ghetto lottery?
Take this to the street. NOBODY wants to be accused of something they didn't do. EVERYMAN can relate to being falsely accused. Don't let this get swept under the rug. It's time for throw this all together (contract, pension looting, false accusations) and fight for what is right!
OFF TOPIC:
Mike Shields of the Chicago Patrolman's pension fund is supposed to be on the Mancow & Pat Cassidy show in 10 minutes.
Mancow said in essence, Stay tuned, he is supposed to reveal something big, naming names, dropping a bombshell, etc.
Hey SCC, you want to see some VERY pissed off cops? Take a look at this:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1239003734
4/07/2009 01:24:00 AM
God Bless 'em. I'm sick of having politicians talk about selectively enforcing the laws. What is a "minor" offense? Fuck them. If someone breaks the law, they deserve a ticket. They're not special. I have to obey the law. I have to have a license and insurance. My car needs to be working properly to be on the street.
I'm very happy for these guys standing up the that Mayor. Chicago should do the same!
---not a cop
If you are the police and work for a living you've been to 26th St.
If you've been to 26th St. you know that legitimate cases fall apart for any number of reasons.
If thre wasn't a criminal element at S.O.S. why did Herrera take a plea and cooperate? Why is Finnegan still in and likely going to prison.
More tahn likely Finnegan ran a crew that followed his every order. Nice guys like TS and dumb asses like CS went along with him. Slow down on making them martyrs.
That being sid i'll take ten TS's and ten CS's over J-Pud any day.
This department couldn't grab dirty coppers if their life depnded on it.
good for these coppers! hopefully everything works out for them!
I would like to say, "Welcome back brothers." Yes, I was there and yes these were and still are good coppers. Yes, each and every one of you that threw stones then can eat shit now. We are our own worst enemies. Post after Post of I hope they get what they deserve, bad cops, thanks for ruining everything, etc. to all of you "Go fuck yourself!" You weren't there, and you have no clue of what went on there except what you read in the paper. You are the same people that I see sitting at Dunkin Donuts w/ your thumbs up your asses reading the Scum Times while there is a 10-1 going on 4 blocks away from you. Don't be the "real police," fine. Don't do anything for this city because you are jaded that you have to work a 20 sector car, and you have to live in the city, or don't have a contract, fine. However, when it comes to another brother or sister in blue get off your fat lazy ass and stand next to them!!! That is what we are supposed to do. That is what this job is about. That is what makes this job special. Bring back the times of being proud to call yourself the Chicago Police. Bring back the times of standing up against those that stand against us!!
Thank god they got there stars back , now go out there and get them.
Welcome back boys!!!! ^5
Will any of you fellow coppers that bashed these guys from the get go come back and apologize for believing the media and dragging their names thru the mud....I didn't think so. We are our own worst enemies, so eager to to bash fellow officers. Is it so hard to support them and wait until the truth comes out? What would you want done if it were you? Who knows the way it is going, you may be next!
A big FUCK YOU to all that found all the SOS guys guilty before you knew anything about their cases. If you didnt work there you had no business commenting since you didnt know what you were talking about. And im sure all of you that did will apologize to these guys now. Didnt think so.
This department is fucked up. The city reinstates these guys after all the media hype, discredit and embarrassment brought forth against the department? While at the same time the police board is firing other coppers for rule 2 violations? The SOS scandal was the mother of all Rule 2 violations !!!!!
You look on the police boards website, and they now have a recent case findings link. Just about every copper fired has a Rule 2 violation listed as one of the reasons the board ruled to separate them.
One of the most recent cases shows an officer by the name of Krupa that WON his case in court, and the board still fired him? This guy was an awesome copper as well and was known as an outstanding police officer.
How the hell do you justify firing a guy like that and then reinstate these guys from SOS?
So the new precedence is set - coppers with Rule 2 violations can now be reinstated back to full duty?
I can see the lawsuits on the horizon. Good luck to all the officers that have been fired or suspended for BULLSHIT ! I hope you all get your jobs back and sue the shit out of this fucked up city.
Paul ZOGG... Welcome Home, Brother.
Semper Fi!
Sgt. Al
Cline used the media to get what he wanted- the big job. Starks used the media in trying to get the big job. He failed. Cline used sneed ,sweeney and others. Starks used the Revs and Heard who had all the media in her pocket.
IAD is completely incompetent and everyone knows it. The States Attorneys office will hop on anything of a political nature. They did and they lost.
And after all this political nonsense, who lost? The innocent Police Officers. How sad.
old retired guy
Nice try Northside. you got smarts and balls. The media can't do nothing without the OK of the stuttering prick. If they demand Shortshanks define merit, he just say silly, silly, silly and change the subject. Then the reporters will walk away with their tails between their legs. Until he is gone, we are fucked.
We need more guys like you to stand up to that crook mother fucker. If the editors don't get back to you on something this simple, it just proves my point.I would give my name but then they would put a brick on me. Insley, Zogg and Case should sue the city for millions after what they went thru. All good cops.
Put your trust in IAD for a proper and unbiased investigation. Yah, Okay, if you believe that one, I have a bridge to sell you. It all comes down to how the rats with tails decide how to write up their report and make you look guilty. This time they evidently assigned an investigator with balls and some brains and not one of the kiss asses that work down there.
READ BACK on previous blogs and READ all the negative bullshit from you dumbasses that THREW STONES!!
You coppers (if thats what you all believe yourselves to be)are GOOFS!
NICE SHOW OF SUPPORT....RIGHT AWAY GUILTY BEFORE INNOCENT>> You guys are worst than the MEDIA itself!
REAL POLICE HUH?
Congrats to the BOYS!
153 of years past
ps: People learn to hold your tongues and keep your heads you'll go farther!!
Does this mean Cline can get his job back.
watch how the jefferson tap guys are found not guilty...another travesty by an overzealous asa's office catering to the almighty media...hopefully under Anita Alveraz...some of this nonsense will stop!
(OT) Been reading this blog for awhile,coppers citywide are being admonished and written up for every little thing! What is up with that Lt Mcbride in 051? This woman is telling everyone how she will be running the unit soon! After finding out how check stubs are being held for the union rep while he is on the medical,a little searching by this siter was in order. Looks like Lt McBride is going to be making $200,000 this year, more than the deputies her year to date is almost $50,000 already! Guess it is great to have clout!! Is she an exempt undercover?
AustinBelmont said...
This one isn't hard to figure out. These 3 officers were in call back for 18 months. This was before J-Fed, therefore it can't be on his watch. These 3 officers were the product of a Dana Starks bid to "clean up" the department, and his self centered attempt to become Superintendant. It was racially motivated, and is a classic example of the enemy within. I know all 3 officers, and they are top notch guys. I wish them nothing but the best, and to their family.
4/07/2009 08:32:00 AM
don't bring up that "playa" happy he is gone, but his dumbass must of known to much as mayor thief gave him a $150K+ "quiet job"! What does dana know? Then his brother derrick gets to be head of tsa not smart just clouted!
I could give a shit what people say! When the real police SOS guys pulled up to a corner the assholes ran away far away! They were scared of them, the msf and tru they don't fear the new kids on the block! Not to complicated, the old SOS were the "real deal"!
Anonymous said...
Maricopa County Coppers Fedup with the Media and Political Whores.
Police officers are fighting back, it's about time.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1239003734
THIS IS A MUST WATCH!
4/07/2009 03:42:00 AM
That was great God bless the best from Arizona, this should be said to asshole daley and the 50 cowards!
And yet Aunt Bea (whether guilty of any wrong doing or not) gets cleared in a matter of hours.
They even said in the paper that Insley could show from the beginning that he wasn't even working on the day in question and he spent more than a year in call back. What a joke. There has been a witch hunt going on...but you're safe if you wear a gold star. I wonder if I could have mine dipped in a gold finish?
Paul Zogg was my part-time FTO. He's a great copper. I figured he had nothing to do with any of that nonsense. It's not his way. Welcome back Paul !
Did I just see on the ch. 9 news what I think? If so, AS A SOCIETY VWE ARE FUCKED!!!!!!!
OT:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/1515005,ed-vrdolyak-bison-escape-shot-040709.article
Bison? What the fuuuuuu......He doesn't have enough money, he's raising bison?
Jesus Christ, it must really be nice to be a lying, thieving, no good crooked politician. Am I doing something wrong here being a working stiff?
This is what happens when the evidence and videos are released to the press. The whole case gets tried in the liberal media not the court room.
The Jefferson Tap case is falling apart too. I would expect those FINE OFFICERS to be re-instated also.
Keep up the great work you are all known for in the CCSA office. The public is starting to see what hiring the bottom 10% of the class gets you as far as quality. I won't mension those in the office that get hired because of clout. Remember our Mayor was the Cook County States Attoney at one time and it took him 6 attempts to pass the BAR.
In-FUKEN-creible!
Have You Voted Today?
I am not doing shit, and I dont care what the mayor or jfed thinks about it! 1st and 16th thats it... go get chuck goudie to run into that school I AINT DOING IT!!!
4/07/2009 12:14:00 AM
Quit posting you do-nothing dog. You never did anything to begin with. Don't know the other guys, but I know Zogg. A class act and he will hit the streets like nothing ever happened. A good Cop will always be a good Cop. A dog like you...we could always smell your stench.
Mike Shields of the Chicago Patrolman's pension fund is supposed to be on the Mancow & Pat Cassidy show in 10 minutes.
They gave him 40 seconds. Sounded good.
Very interesting to watch , yes...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1239003734
But there they have Sheriff Joe Arpaio, a real law man who has their backs.
Here we have Feeble Fed Jody Weis who has a knife in our backs.
Stay safe, Daley won't live forever and Jody won't stay forever.
Hey Northside,
Time to read DON QUIXOTE.
This is not la Mancha. This is Chicago! They are all in bed together with hizzoner.
What's your next stop? Camelot?
I must admit I thought the SOS scandal was based on facts on not BS. I guess I was wrong.
They should promote each of the accused SOS guys to Sgt.
How could the department let this happen?
SCC
If you can put this up now, that would be great....get out and vote for Roseann Pauldio (SP?)
I'm heading over to vote at 1400 hrs & just got a call, less than 30 people have voted so far, and 4 of them are my family. We can put a Republican in Rahm's seat! Get off your butt and vote.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
This is just like what the dept did when Joe Miedz got arrested. Typical paranoid self serving exempt knee jerk reaction.
Hillard moved then cmdr radeny out of gangs just prior to the arrest, figuring they needed to protect him from the "expected" backlash.
Hillard labeled all gang guys as criminals and thieves, and then simply abolished the unit to prove his point to the media and politicos. If he would have waited until the full investigation was completed, Hillard would have learned that Joe operated alone, plus minus one.
That stupid move of dismantling a most productive investigative unit full of decades of gang intelligence is costing the city many lives today and will continue to do so for decades to come thanks to our former supt.
4/07/2009 07:34:00 AM
Most productive at what? Costing the City lives, How? You obviously were a member of the sons of supervisors unit. There were some good policemen in the unit this is true.
The arrogant self serving response written here is one the reasons that the unit was disbanded. That and the fact that there was wrong doing.
SOS was nothing more then a glorified tact team at best. A bunch of guys who would take two hour lunches go into a district a make an arrest, for the most part of the petty nature, then go home two hours early, or to Dugans, or go work a side job.
There were guys in SOS that could not even fill out an arrest report.
So give me a break with the greatest police BS, nothing but bunch prima donna paper jumpers. You had guys that were never on a tact going to SOS.
I was also dumped from sos and put in the bis program for 2yrs.I was treated like shit.I was called down to 35th st and told to stop working.fop was no help.I ordered to take a medical exam with no rights.then fop sent me a form to sign giving fop and the city a way out.so when the city and the fop say they have my back they lie.right cooter
J-Failure should go crawling on his hands and knees to Kirby and Tobias and give them their spots back.
Heard ManCow this morning, didn't hear any bombshell. He talked about Hummerman trying to suck a police pension out of the city. He also talked about Vanecko, Daleys nephew, who scammed the pension fund out of money along with Alice? Davis, another world class scam aritist. This is all older info regarding felonies and attempted felonies by the CHICAGO DEMOCRATIC ORG.
Too bad we didn't send a message like this to Daley during the march. This is great stuff.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c66_1239003734
Phatty is a man with a paper-ass who covered up a lot of shit Daley wanted done for political reasons only, not to improve the Dept. or do things fairly for all officers, thereby contributing to the appointment of unqualified supervisors and the further decline of the dept. Phatty hasn't been straight [or slim] since at least before his "Marquette 10" days.
Dave Case is finally out of the Gulag. A Hell of a guy. Whoever gets him as their Lou will be lucky.
If this keeps going, the only one left holding the bag will be that rat Herrera. Hope your 60 Minutes appearance was worth it. Scum bag.
Anonymous said...
it took 2 yrs to figure out that insley was NOT there. i hope he's planning a civil suit
4/07/2009 07:31:00 AM
If he didn't know his name was on the report, I hope he wins that suit. But any officer who stays awake during his tour would have to be blind not to notice the CPD practice of placing officers at scenes that they never came near in order to make them look good, or to give them credit for a pinch. Tact guys love to do that. And it happens all over the city.
Off the topic:
The Editor of the Beverly Review (Beverly/Mt. Greenwood newspaper) wrote an article which supports us regarding the contract. Maybe the Alderman of the 19th Ward will help us now.
SUE THE FUCK OUT OF IAD
Paul's only problem was the female they partnered him up with. I refused to work w/ her.
Good Luck Paul, stay safe.
Off the subject. Members of the no olympic games had a sit down w/ the ioc members and were able to voice their concerns. I don't know how long they are here but wouldn't it be nice for the fop to have a sit down and discuss safety concerns? The fop should at least try and contact them if anything.
OFF TOPIC but worth it:
The Chicago Sun-Times is reporting that the office of congressional ethics is reviewing Jackson's actions in his bid to be appointed by then-Governor Blagojevich to the US Senate seat vacated by President Obama.
The panel has asked former members of Blagojevich's staff to turn over documents, e-mail and any correspondents involving the congressman or his staff
Sure hope the Queen AC-H is still at home when they retread. She's still up to her old tricks--brought in the new baby for the "AWWWWW" effect. One of the many manipulations in her bag. Sick little girl with an insane need to control. Forges official documents. Is Uncle MS BAS ADS still taking care of her??
Watch out HL and RW.....
There are many more cops at call back that were screwed for politically motivated reasons or just one-sided investigations! They are in limbo with their 30 pending sustained reccomendations on the bosses desk just sitting there. Do the right thing Boss. Kick those back to your new Iad guy, whom we all here is a guy who can see thru the bs and badly investigated trumped up charges.
Just because the Iad signed off on 30 pending does not mean the case has any merit! Check the files-check with Corp counsel handling civil ends of these cases. Even they have scratched their heads and shrugged their shoulders when they have sat endless hours during depositions. They have heard testimony of your IAd sergeants who have not been able to articulate why they sustained cases and reccomended 30 days pending on them. I would bet that 99% of the the 30 pending cases were pushed thru during end of the STarks term and very early Wiess term before you had your feet planted. AS was the same with most of the strips.
I met Greg at the CC Sheriff's Dept. I met Paul in 018. Both are good guys. Glad you were both cleared. - P.Mc.
TIME FOR A FOP NO CONFIDENCE VOTE ON THE STUTTERING PRICK.
"If I'm one of those officers who were stripped, you better believe I'm going to sue for malicious prosecution."
HUH, THEY STAYED ON THE PAYROLL & WERE REINSTATED? WHERE'S THE MAILCIOUS PROSECUTION?
SHOULD THEY HIRE ONE OF THOSE SCUMBAG LAWYERS EVERYONE RAILS AGAINST? YOU'RE AN IDIOT.
"FORMER 153 said...
The scandel is falling apart, because THERE WAS NO SCANDLE!!!!!"
MUST BE A PRODUCT OF THE CHICAGO ARCHDIOCESE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM.
IT'S SCANDAL. TRY SPELL CHECK IN THE FUTURE.
dont buy shit in Chicago i own the GNC store in merrionette park for the last 12 years.my policy has aalways been 20% off anytime to cpd cfd isp besides why wouldnt you want to save 22% total off your bill?
Goudie is getting another face lift and could not be reached for comment.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
The days of two disciplinary systems must end. There should only be one system with fair, objective, impartial and "REASONABLE" standards; not one for those with "clout" and those without "clout".
4/07/2009 02:51:00 AM
How is the Master's thing going?
OT: Excuse me, a bunch of whack-a-doos stage a sit-in at Mayor Daley's office about the closing of mental health offices in Chicago and in less than 24 hours he rescinds the order to close them but the CPD stages a protest with thousands of police officers and....nothing.
It boggles the fucking mind.
Prick.
They were restored because the new Chief at IAD bothered to review the case. And is a legit guy. Something j-fed won't know what to do with. Maybe now IAD will start being run in a reasonable fashion. Something not seen in a couple of bosses there.
Anonymous said...
I would like to say, "Welcome back brothers." Yes, I was there and yes these were and still are good coppers. Yes, each and every one of you that threw stones then can eat shit now. We are our own worst enemies. Post after Post of I hope they get what they deserve, bad cops, thanks for ruining everything, etc. to all of you "Go fuck yourself!" You weren't there, and you have no clue of what went on there except what you read in the paper. You are the same people that I see sitting at Dunkin Donuts w/ your thumbs up your asses reading the Scum Times while there is a 10-1 going on 4 blocks away from you. Don't be the "real police," fine. Don't do anything for this city because you are jaded that you have to work a 20 sector car, and you have to live in the city, or don't have a contract, fine. However, when it comes to another brother or sister in blue get off your fat lazy ass and stand next to them!!! That is what we are supposed to do. That is what this job is about. That is what makes this job special. Bring back the times of being proud to call yourself the Chicago Police. Bring back the times of standing up against those that stand against us!!
4/07/2009 10:06:00 AM
***********************************
Amen brother. You just described the entire 3rd watch in the 8th District.
"IT'S SCANDAL. TRY SPELL CHECK IN THE FUTURE.
4/07/2009 06:43:00 PM"
It's a fucking typo.
Try getting a life, in the future.
If you were worth my time, I'd start a Chuck Goudie is an idiot Blog and fact check everything you write and broadcast, but I don't want to waste my time with an idiot.
--not a cop, but not that-- not a cop
4/07/2009 02:29:00 PM
You know, I think I'm beginning to have a crush on you.
---not a cop
I didn't even know that Paul was caught up in this. This shows how flawed this investigation must be. I know several of the accused. Not saying that any are guilty but there is no way in hell Paul Zogg was involved in this nonsense! He is 100% squared away.
I have known him since college. When we were out doing stupid shit at 5:30 a.m., Paul was jogging or studying. Not that he didn't have fun too, but this kid was mature and focused with a good head on his shoulders. He is a Marine, not in the "I'm such a badass" way, but in a patriotic and dedicated way that was beyond honor. I would bet the future of my children upon the fact that he did nothing that would dishonor himself or this department. When you over do one of these corruption investigations by implicating a guy like this, you taint the ENTIRE investigation! Another shitty job by ASA and the morons at IAD.
B.F. 007
Is Lt. JB coming out of retirement now?
OFF TOPIC:
Illinois air space invaded by unknown, possible terrorist Air craft, ( rewmenber Miegs Field/)
No Comment by Daley. Press corps, State of Ill. , City of Chicago....
Are we second class citizens or what ???
Respond Chicago !!!
[...]PITTSBURGH – The mother of a man charged with killing three Pittsburgh police officers told a 911 dispatcher he had weapons, but the dispatcher didn't relay that information to officers, the official in charge of county dispatchers says.[...]
Sounds like someone should be charged criminally.
Most productive at what? Costing the City lives, How? You obviously were a member of the sons of supervisors unit. There were some good policemen in the unit this is true.
The arrogant self serving response written here is one the reasons that the unit was disbanded. That and the fact that there was wrong doing.
SOS was nothing more then a glorified tact team at best. A bunch of guys who would take two hour lunches go into a district a make an arrest, for the most part of the petty nature, then go home two hours early, or to Dugans, or go work a side job.
There were guys in SOS that could not even fill out an arrest report.
So give me a break with the greatest police BS, nothing but bunch prima donna paper jumpers. You had guys that were never on a tact going to SOS.
4/07/2009 02:06:00 PM
Another wannabe do nothing sad little man.
I voted. Twice. Stupid voting software.
Anonymous said...
TIME FOR A FOP NO CONFIDENCE VOTE ON THE STUTTERING PRICK.
4/07/2009 06:35:00 PM
That goes without saying. No confidence is way too generous. No confidence with extreme prejudice is more like it.
OT:
Heard rumors going around that for the next police test they are administering a polygraph to applicants. Any truth to this?
Off Topic:
To Our Police Friends and Family -
My name is Erin Martorano. My husband, Joe Martorano has worked for the Chicago Police Department for ten years. This past November, our four year old daughter, Sara was diagnosed with cancer. Cancer has no boundaries. Cancer loves to invade every aspect of your life. It is the eternal support of family and friends that is keeping our family afloat in a cancerous sea of good and bad "moments."
April 5th, our friends held the Saints for Sara benefit. I'm writing this letter in response to my emotions from this heart warming get together. The Chicago Police presence was overwhelming. I appreciate your smiles, your looks of concern, your well wishes, your nods, your hugs, your generosity, your jokes, your cheers, your personalities. That's one thing the Chicago Police Department is not short of......unique personalities!
I'm a girl who was born and bred in the suburbs of Chicago. I am not from a police family. Marrying Joe and his job has been quite an experience. Being a Chicago Police officer is a lifestyle. It is not a job choice. It is a chosen life of leaving your family and going to work with a gun and bullet-proof vest. Every day you choose to put yourself in dangerous and unpredictable situations. Unlike other professions, even when you're off duty, you are still a police officer. You are still expected to "do the job." You are expected to keep the city and it's people safe, while having a smile on your face and only nice things to say. You are expected to use your gun at a moments notice to save your life or the life of someone else...and with those same hands, you hold your wife or husband and tuck your kid into bed at night. What is expected of you and your family is extreme. You still do it. If you are not one of us, you do not understand.
You are Chicago Police officers. You do not let one of your own, walk alone. Since our daughter, Sara was diagnosed with cancer, you have not left our family's side. We know a lot of you personally, some...we know your name, some...we know what district you work in, some...we just know you are the police. Thank you for support, friendship, prayers and laughs throughout of family's cancer journey.
Much gratitude and thanks,
Erin Martorano
Dont want to throw cold water, but I heard that some of the SOS guys are getting indicted federally. Thats why the state is Nolle prosse the charges. Just what I heard. They may not be out of the woods yet
All these SOS guys must have been wrongly accused.
If there were any truth to it there is no way the US Attorney's Office would take over two years to bring an indictment. Is there?
Anonymous said...
I must admit I thought the SOS scandal was based on facts on not BS. I guess I was wrong.
They should promote each of the accused SOS guys to Sgt.
How could the department let this happen?
4/07/2009 02:01:00 PM
----------------------
Listen maybe some of the guys were lumped , unfairly, but there still is Herrera on national tv saying they steal and stold and beat and "did what you gotta do". Then there is Jerry trying have coppers whacked! i mean there is some bad guys here, not all of them should have been lumped into this shit either. They should sue and the media should stop the "elite" shit either, SOS was never elite.
OT: Michael Carroll any word on the trip to Pittsburgh?
I love all the old Sos guys on here tooting their horns about how bad they were . How feared they were. Get over it. The cpd was all feared in the day, we all had our days. With 20 years on now, they pussified this department from the top down.
WHERE IS THE NEWS ON THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe Shortshanks should reinstate Phil Kline, the best supt this department ever had. I guess I'm dreaming.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Paul's only problem was the female they partnered him up with. I refused to work w/ her.
Good Luck Paul, stay safe.
4/07/2009 05:33:00 PM
The redhead?
Daley selling everything off like an out of work crack-whore, and still saying the city is broke.
OT:
Heard rumors going around that for the next police test they are administering a polygraph to applicants. Any truth to this?
4/07/2009 08:27:00 PM
yes...they'll be asking....
"how old are you really"?
Most productive at what? Costing the City lives, How? You obviously were a member of the sons of supervisors unit. There were some good policemen in the unit this is true.
The arrogant self serving response written here is one the reasons that the unit was disbanded. That and the fact that there was wrong doing.
SOS was nothing more then a glorified tact team at best. A bunch of guys who would take two hour lunches go into a district a make an arrest, for the most part of the petty nature, then go home two hours early, or to Dugans, or go work a side job.
There were guys in SOS that could not even fill out an arrest report.
So give me a break with the greatest police BS, nothing but bunch prima donna paper jumpers. You had guys that were never on a tact going to SOS.
4/07/2009 02:06:00 PM
I wasn't SOS but they brought in a shit load of guns and locked a lot of bad dudes up, but I'm sure they were all your guns that they stole. Saying that they didn't is ignorant. I would slow down on that tact team bullshit too. We all now a lot of boys on tact don't deserve to be.
Anonymous said...
"IT'S SCANDAL. TRY SPELL CHECK IN THE FUTURE.
4/07/2009 06:43:00 PM"
It's a fucking typo.
Try getting a life, in the future.
4/07/2009 07:29:00 PM
I don't think "scandle" instead of "scandal" can be construed as a typo. Like the people who use "riddens" instead of "riddance," the original poster can't spell worth a damn. Sorry if that's you.
A PERFECT DAY!
The sun is shining.
Daley is whining
Cubs lose
Sox win!
PERFECT
Anonymous said...
watch how the jefferson tap guys are found not guilty...another travesty by an overzealous asa's office catering to the almighty media...hopefully under Anita Alveraz...some of this nonsense will stop!
4/07/2009 11:40:00 AM
Alvarez is about as smart as a box of rocks. Don't look for anything pro-cop on her watch. She's no improvement over the Devine regine; she just dums-down the whole State's Attorney's office.
All great guys! Welcome back. And F**K the J**O*FS and their run away sytem>>>>>>>>>>>> of GUILTY until proven innocent= The tides will turn and the B*sta*ds better run.
to the person who wrote in the post 4/17/2009 10:06 about sos sign your name you gutless fuck
4/07/2009 08:36:00 PM
God bless your child! And thanks for all the nice comments!
(OT) Hey SCC could you make this a "topic" I have written to the White house asking President Obmama to call daley and try to get us a decent contract! In the letter I stated how this is "his" hometown and it would show how much he cares for the police officer by telling daley to do the right thing! Maybe if we all write it will overwelm,all Obama has to do is pick up the phone and tell daley to "just do it"
http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/
"....you know, I think I'm beginning to have a crush on you...."
Why, thank you very much.
Can I interest you in some of my famous white wine spritzers?
Now, kees me you fool!!!!
Most productive at what? Costing the City lives, How? You obviously were a member of the sons of supervisors unit. There were some good policemen in the unit this is true.
The arrogant self serving response written here is one the reasons that the unit was disbanded. That and the fact that there was wrong doing.
SOS was nothing more then a glorified tact team at best. A bunch of guys who would take two hour lunches go into a district a make an arrest, for the most part of the petty nature, then go home two hours early, or to Dugans, or go work a side job.
There were guys in SOS that could not even fill out an arrest report.
So give me a break with the greatest police BS, nothing but bunch prima donna paper jumpers. You had guys that were never on a tact going to SOS.
4/07/2009 02:06:00 PM
I think he was talking about the dismantling of the old gang crimes unit in the late 90's. You missed that one buddy.
I never realized the guys from SOS were so thinned skinned. Like I said there were good coppers there, but there are good coppers all over this city that never get a chance to go to units. So don't think the people from SOS were the reason that crime was reduced. That was all paper shuffling.
Case, Insley, and Zogg were all getting screwed by the city, and there are many more people in call back and other spots that are receiving the same shafting. Remember they all did not work in SOS.
So beat the drums for your boys if you want but there are thousands of Coppers out there who never had the chance to work in specialized units who grind it out everyday.
And lose the rabbit ears.
PERFECT DAY!
The sun is shining.
Daley is whining
Cubs lose
Sox win!
PERFECT
stick your sux up your ass trailer park sux fan!
Anonymous said...
"IT'S SCANDAL. TRY SPELL CHECK IN THE FUTURE.
4/07/2009 06:43:00 PM"
It's a fucking typo.
Try getting a life, in the future.
4/07/2009 07:29:00 PM
I don't think "scandle" instead of "scandal" can be construed as a typo. Like the people who use "riddens" instead of "riddance," the original poster can't spell worth a damn. Sorry if that's you.
4/07/2009 10:27:00 PM
Hey handjob, maybe you should quit the job, and become an English Professor!!! Get a life !! If you understood what was said in his/her comment, who cares how they spelled scandal. Maybe SCC can hire you to proof read all the comments! LOSER!!!
I could give a shit what people say! When the real police SOS guys pulled up to a corner the assholes ran away far away! They were scared of them, the msf and tru they don't fear the new kids on the block! Not to complicated, the old SOS were the "real deal"!
Relax office, back in the day of the "old" SOS, not to be confused with anything as recent as 5-7 years ago, you didn't have video cameras, cellphone cams, and every other camera known to man following your every move, you were able to be the police; these days it's all about survival, that way of doing police work is a thing of the past, never to return, don't knock the new guys, they are a product of the new environment...
"4/07/2009 11:02:00 PM"
Next picketing, make the signs.
"I don't think "scandle" instead of "scandal" can be construed as a typo. Like the people who use "riddens" instead of "riddance," the original poster can't spell worth a damn. Sorry if that's you.
4/07/2009 10:27:00 PM"
So, you refuse to get a life.
"yes...they'll be asking....
"how old are you really"?
4/07/2009 10:12:00 PM"
You can bet your sweet bippy they will.
"Daley selling everything off like an out of work crack-whore, and still saying the city is broke.
4/07/2009 10:02:00 PM"
Just like a crack whore.
'Iz gots neeeeds!'
Anonymous said...
to the person who wrote in the post 4/17/2009 10:06 about sos sign your name you gutless fuck
4/07/2009 10:47:00 PM
___________________________________
UH...HELLO??????????????
As a result, it appears more and more like J-Fed was brought here under false pretenses.
Is there anything that J-Fed has done right since he's been here? It's ovbious he'e been Daley's puppet and I have to wonder if he's allowed t think for himself at all?
I know there is a lot of political corruption down at City Hall in Philly, and has ben for some time, but just how far back does the corruption date back in Chicago?
Daisy (aka Kate)
but just how far back does the corruption date back in Chicago?
Since du Sable got here and started swindling the Indians.
DAC said...
OT:
Heard rumors going around that for the next police test they are administering a polygraph to applicants. Any truth to this?
4/07/2009 08:27:00 PM
------------------------------
10-4 dicks being trained as we type
but just how far back does the corruption date back in Chicago?
Since du Sable got here and started swindling the Indians.
Oh my God! Now that is funny!
Anonymous said...
to the person who wrote in the post 4/17/2009 10:06 about sos sign your name you gutless fuck
-----------------
Easy there, future seeing cop! bad ass future seeker!
Anonymous said...
Maybe Shortshanks should reinstate Phil Kline, the best supt this department ever had. I guess I'm dreaming.
4/07/2009 09:43:00 PM
Jeez, I thought Timothy O'Connor was the best superintendent or perhaps one of the other toora loora Irish pricks who have contributed to the vast accumulated history of massive systemic corruption which still surrounds us today.
.
Daisy said...
As a result, it appears more and more like J-Fed was brought here under false pretenses.
Is there anything that J-Fed has done right since he's been here? It's ovbious he'e been Daley's puppet and I have to wonder if he's allowed t think for himself at all?
Daisy (aka Kate)
4/08/2009 06:48:00 AM
The only correct thing J-Fed has done, and even then under duress, was to write letters in support of the release of Mike Mette. That and perhaps to wash his hands after going to the bathroom.
Other than that it has been a great big cluster fuck.
Its good that the innocent officers that were caught up in the case were finally released from callback and allowed to go back to full duty. I only know one personally and he was royally shafted throughout the process. It was definitely not the widespread scandal that the news made it out to be. Lets not forget that a few dirty scumbags can give a lot of people a black eye. There are a few that already pled guilty, and those are the scumbags that make us all look bad.
"Hey handjob, maybe you should quit the job, and become an English Professor!!! Get a life !! If you understood what was said in his/her comment, who cares how they spelled scandal. Maybe SCC can hire you to proof read all the comments! LOSER!!!
4/08/2009 02:01:00 AM"
FINE. I CAN IMAGINE WHAT YOUR CASE REPORTS LOOK LIKE. WONDER WHY YOU'RE SUCH A LOSER IN COURT OR LIFE IN GENERAL?
OT:
Heard rumors going around that for the next police test they are administering a polygraph to applicants. Any truth to this?
4/07/2009 08:27:00 PM
Yes they have people in school now to be polygraph examiners.
They really should give applicants a polygraph, look at who we have been hiring...gang bangers and their girlfriends, drug dealers and thieves.
With the economy the way it is now, everyone is going to apply they need JOBS!!!!
the only thing thats quiet about the reinstatement is the media, because they blew something out of proportion, again.
They get awfully quiet when it comes to printing retractions.
Congrats on finally making it back to the street, guys. Will miss ya at 376. So happy this BS is finally over for you both.
stick your sux up your ass trailer park sux fan!
And so it begins, another season of cub fans whining... if you guys just come to understand that the cubs will always choke it won't hurt as bad.
Signed,
Just an unbiased Chicago sports fan
Hey handjob, maybe you should quit the job, and become an English Professor!!! Get a life !! If you understood what was said in his/her comment, who cares how they spelled scandal. Maybe SCC can hire you to proof read all the comments! LOSER!!!
4/08/2009 02:01:00 AM"
FINE. I CAN IMAGINE WHAT YOUR CASE REPORTS LOOK LIKE. WONDER WHY YOU'RE SUCH A LOSER IN COURT OR LIFE IN GENERAL?
4/08/2009 11:54:00 AM
Great comeback, handjob! Now you're an even bigger loser than I originally thought!!
Now remove the shackles from EO!
Anonymous said...
To 4/08/2009 02:01:00 AM:
I have a great life. However, your use of all caps in calling me a "LOSER," as well as your overuse of exclamation points, leads me to believe that you are the one with no life.
Being cleared in a court of law means nothing unless you have a lawyer to back you. Yeah, you'll get your job back; but they can screw you out of years of back pay. No clout, no lawyer; you get F'd, especially if you're a white male. Trust me, I know. I was found not guilty in court and in the end it didn't mean shit. The admin. board are radicals. You may as well be judged by the Black Panther party. They can tie up your case for another two years or more. Not many have the endurance to go through that if you've already been through hell. If you are black, you can kill someone by accident, get a month suspension, then get promoted to detective a short time later, and again to sgt. A different standard though, as usual.
"I have a great life. However, your use of all caps in calling me a "LOSER," as well as your overuse of exclamation points, leads me to believe that you are the one with no life.
4/08/2009 11:57:00 PM"
Well, aren't you the special one.
FYI:
1. Nobody lives forever.
2. The memory of your existence lasts only as long as those who knew and loved you are alive.
3. Even if you are remembered after your loved ones are also no longer alive, sooner or later, the fact of your existence will be no more memorable than a cockroach's farting.
4. Enjoy your not so special future.
And word is trickling in that a fourth Officer who was cleared in court, received his gun back and is again on the payroll.
------------------------------
were any of them ever off the payroll?
Anonymous said...
Now remove the shackles from EO!
4/08/2009 10:31:00 PM
Agreed! Ols is the one Jerry, Jake B., Carl and the rest really fucked in this whole mess!!
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