Activity Quotas Again?
Once again, why does downtown even spend time exploring things like this? As first addressed in the "Headquarters Rumors" posting:
- Special employment based on activity, eh?
Hey, boss! What's my quota that I need in order to work special employment? What's that? I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. Yes, boss, I asked what is my QUOTA for activity in order to get special employment? Also, could you put that in writing please.
P.S. Hey, you detectives,I guess you better take out some parkers, movers and contact cards with you on that follow-up, or witness interview. Can't work special without activity.
What a bunch of jags! Very equitable and fair system you got there you 35th/Mich brain children.
How do you measure the activity of inside people? How do you measure the activity of D-2 and D-2A positions? You can't. And it will be a cold day in hell that anyone at HQ ever puts a quota on paper seeing as how quotas are illegal and lead to shitty police work, not to mention massive payouts to litigious-happy lawyers.
Instead of trying to work around the seniority issues, how about expanding the opportunities?
Instead of trying to work around the seniority issues, how about expanding the opportunities?
Labels: dumb ideas, from the comments
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
53 Comments:
For the same reason detectives shouldn't make a higher pay grade for working CTA or safe-city.
Detectives make increased wages due to the additional skills that they possess through training. They offer more to the department, so deserve more pay. However, while working CTA special they are not using their special training or skills. They are riding buses, and don't deserve extra pay.
Well, same thing in this situation. Only street-officers should be allowed to work street-overtime. The skill set you use in your cubicle is not what safe-city needs for operation, so no matter how productive you are in the medical section, there is no way to quantify that and translate it for comparison to street-officers. As one other poster put it--if you don't want to work the streets and you go inside, then keep your ass inside all the time.
The ones who work special and refuse to even get out of the car are ruining it for everyone. They have time on the job and are usually a member of the kma club so sgt's don't bother them. The problem is that they are blatant about it. Come into checkoff laughing and joking about not doing a damned thing all night.
Is the ACLU aware of the fact that CPD officers must maintain activity quotas?
Ahhh the old activity issue and here is my rant... Many with time on the job will say hey kid we earned the o.t, which is very well true. Here lies the problem, if you go out there and bring in activity you should be rewarded. I am not suggesting that those with time on should not get first crack, but there should be a way that those who work hard should get rewarded. If in fact if we were a real legit union we could figure that out. However, our union is divided and will remain that way forever. We need to figure out a way that everyone can get a crack at overtime. The fact of the matter is the old timers get the overtime, however they are not always the ones that need it. (Please follow me here) The younger you are the younger your kids are...therefore you need that tuition money for school and whatever else your teenagers need(please think of your daughter who really doesn't need that car but you get her one anyways because you want to make sure she doesn't have an excuse not to get home ). Again I have all the respect for the veterans but we must figure out a way that we can incorporate o.t for midrangers i.e the 5-20 year p.o's with kids in private school or college. Bottom line is people can come on this anonymous blog and talk shit about people, but keep in mind that we are facing tough times and if you can go without the o.t, please pass it along to someone that can use it.
God bless and hopefully the shitty will start hiring again so this is a non issue. Stay safe out there.
CAN I GET AN EVENT NUMBER?
Why are you so jealous of officers who have put in over 20 plus years, and have earned the right to bid for certain positions. We all went through a time when we were at the bottom of seniority,quit complaining,and go to court.That is what,young,aggressive,low seniority officers have done.
We need to figure out a way that everyone can get a crack at overtime.
Really? And just how do you propose you do this? Activity? OK. You have a street cop who goes out there every day and brings in arrests, contact cards, bus checks, parker's, etc. Then you have a house mouse who works the desk and does maybe 6 reports in one shift.
Do you give the street cop preference over the house mouse? They have more activity. Or so you base it on the particular job each officer does? That wouldn't be fair to either side. Plus, just how does the individual officer know if he is reaching the mark for his activity? he only logical way to do that would be to tell each officer what they need to bring in. But then you are talking quotas and once you open that bottle, you would be able to get the genie back in.
The fact of the matter is the old timers get the overtime, however they are not always the ones that need it.
Now how did you arrive at this conclusion? Just because a P.O. has "time" on the job does not mean that they are debt free and are just waiting to retire to that vacation home in Hawaii.
Many officer with over 20 years have kids in college. Hell, some may still have some in grade school.
So why should a P.O., with over 20 years on, who has do his/her share of running and gunning in their younger days, be penalized?
Seniority is a fair process. Everyone benefits from it in time. But your problem is that you don't want to wait. You want everything NOW.
The funny thing is I will guaranty that once you pass your 20 year mark, you will be the one telling some young kid, "I put my time in. Wait until you have as much time as I do and then you will get all the benefits that follow."
Could you imagine if TSA had a quota of muslims searched. We are not sheepdogs we are tax collecting wolves serving the master.
Those without seniority should not complain. The best OT is available to them: COURT. Make a pinch once in awhile.
That pigeonholes with what the first poster on this thread said, which I wholeheartedly agree with.
PS, I don't have the seniority to get much special yet.
To 2:21am:
I'm an old fart with 23 years on the job. Don't think that just because I have that much time that I don't need special.
We have wives, kids, mortgages. We haven't gotten a raise either and our taxes went up just as much, if not more than your taxes.
My wife's hours just got cut at work, I need the money.
Seniority is the only fair way to assign it.
Sorry you can't get the airport, there are some months I can't get it either.
There is plenty of special for those without much time, sorry it isn't easy like the airport.
That's because crybaby 2 year wonders can't wait their turn like everybody else. Yes this means you N.G! Why don't you go to a real district since your a "WORKER".
02:21:00
What about the old timer with a disabled wife or child or parents that need around the clock care that has to be paid for out of pocket? What about a thousand other needs that old timers may have other than kids in school?
Seniority is the only fair way. I do agree that street personnel should get the street duty overtime though not house mouses afraid to get out of the car.
Fuck you and your activity you lil bitches with 5-10 years on the job where you have experienced "EVERYTHING". Work for 25 yrs. in a shithole and then we'll let you make time and a half. Otherwise take that side gig at 10 dollars an hour like we did and shut the fuck up. Now get your sorry ass on that CTA Bus at straight time-if you can get in JUNIOR!
OT but ..This was a joke! One day notice to post a resume and get three letters of recommendation! Daley just did this as a joke to play down the fact of so many aldermen going to jail over the years! Is this funny, Mayor Daley? Ask Ike!
Detectives are THE BEST.....Just ask them!! They will tell you
Welcome to the Suburbs!!
There is not a "quota" in place - but a Sgt or LT needs to look across all the guys on his watch and tell those who don't bring in any real activity to pick it up.
You are being judged against your peers - beat officer vs beat officer on the same watch.
You can't honestly tell me that it doesn't burn you when a guy comes back with zeros because he couldn't find anything and laughs about it - carrying your weight is not too much to ask
2:21a.m., old timer here (27+) and I agree with you. I could get a 13B, easily, but don't for pretty much the same reasoning. Plain and simple greed. Although a few have told me they work special to try to get their ss quarters in. I happen to believe that ss won't be there for most of us, so I prefer to have my days off, OFF.
I think part of the problem is with accounting. It is much easier for accounting to just punch you up on the computer and the number of hours worked in whatever capacity (ie - O'Hare, CHA, CTA) and therefore they don't have to compute anything. If there was a set per-hour dollar figure to work each special job, then accounting would have to do a whole new set of calculations for your special employment check. Perhaps those "in the know" could comment?
TO: 2/22/2010 12:14:00 AM
Detectives do not work safe city. Using your logic why should the City pay anything more then a PPOs pay? If you have 20 years on why should you get the 20 year pay scale for something that a PPO can do?
Your argument is a slippery slope and while you may benefit now by not having other pay grades compete for your special spot be careful what you wish for.
Everyone under the rank of Sgt is a Blue shirt and covered by the same union. Seniority is the only fair way to assign people.
You are right about one thing, there is no way to quantify activity between inside and outside people. There is also no way to do that between Officers in different districts and units. What is work in you district may not be work in another district.
their are all kinds of opportunities to make money on the side besides working special employment and some of them are cash jobs... instead of complaining about all the old timers sucking up the special money, get off your ass and find something else or start locking people up and going to court--- court is the best side job in the world......
2/22/2010 12:14:00 AM
Agreed D-1 pay for D-1 jobs! What about the D-3 bodyguards for daley-burke-tresurer working special and making the D-3 Sgts rate at time +1/2! A political lackey perk! They make $15,000 pensionable base pay over the working blue shirts but like hogs are sucking up every special job they can! Pigs get fat hogs go to slaughter1
2/22/2010 02:21:00 AM
I get some overtime in my unit make D-1 but will not work special to deprieve another copper out of some extra cash! Look around boys and girls at who is working special unit 542 government security that is D-3 bodyguard details,and unit 543 same thing! Why is it the sergeants are scared and let them skate out early? fair correct?? Which guy making D-3 that drives for a politician had a dui covered up? Guess who??
Here lies the problem, if you go out there and bring in activity you should be rewarded.
****************************************
Once again, wrong. This is the problem with ANYTHING other than seniority as the deciding factor.
There's no way in hell you can attempt to institute quotas and that's been well hashed out in the courts, so they can't use that.
Using the above logic, the city would be instituting a "more cash for more activity" policy that, just like the quota system, drives people to generate activity for profit purposes, which again leads to the same legal problems as quotas.
Money being a motive to incite activity is against the law when it comes to paying people to do a job that takes people's freedom away from them or costs them money. Period.
Seniority does not create this problem and is the only neutral solution to accessing any overtime initiative.
Some say that because some of these inititiatives are paid for by 3rd parties that the 3rd party can determine the environment that suits their purpose. Once again, no they can't. Claiming that CTA is a separate entity and therefore can dictate who they want working for them doesn't work because once again, they are required to hire from the same pool of employees and attemting to put a quota in place in any fashion makes them just as liable as the city would be if the employment were done through them.
Any program that operates differently can only do so until a suit is filed against the agency providing the employment. When it comes to activity = money (ie employment), that motivational factor has been well covered by the courts and any case against any 3rd party won't win.
JUST SAYIN':
stop your F^ckin whining. "Where's mine"- "How come he has this and I don't"
Seniority-- Put your time in, or shut the F^ck UP. Get some time on the job. Does you mommy & Daddy still take care of you?
You are not kids anymore, act like an adult.
Divide and conquer. Stick together brothers and sisters. This is what the city want. Detectives against POs. Everyone has the what's in it for me mentality.
Stick together and don't worry about what someone else has
Well, dog-ass coppers who don't do shit end up getting the most OT for special. I'm talking about the ones that ride out jobs,(45-60 min.) don't back each other up, then want to jump paper. One of these D-A-Coppers is currently in taser training! LMAO!!!
I agree with senority, but a guy with 10 years can't get much. It's getting $$$ to raise a family in this Chit-town.
to the young parent....complaining about paying your young childrens tuition bill....just wait til your 58-60plus paying college expenses and yes helping your "good" young adult with living expenses because there really are no part time jobs paying more than minimum wage. yes I would rather not work a second job at my age, but thank god that I can and by the way am still in patrol car every tour 58 with 28, going soon just not yet.
I like it...maybe some dog ass losers will either 1) get off their ass and work for a change or 2) not be able to clog up special so that someone with over a decade on this fucking job can get more than 1 day a month if youre lucky! Hard work SHOULD be rewarded! Just as lazy do nothing assholes should be punished, and what better way to punish someone than hitting them in the pocket! And just make Special not available to detectives just as how it is not available to Sgts. Id say detectives make enough money for a sub .500 clearance rate!
Only street-officers should be allowed to work street-overtime. The skill set you use in your cubicle is not what safe-city needs for operation, so no matter how productive you are in the medical section, there is no way to quantify that and translate it for comparison to street-officers.
Lighten up Francis.
Seniority is KING!
Get some time on the job youngsters. We were all there at one time too, don't forget that.
Instead of worrying about seniority, just cut the hours allowed to work special. 16 hours of special O.T.(total from all forms of time and a half special) should be good enough for everyone. Thats roughly about $600 extra a month for people. This would open it up for more people. I mean it's not hard to figure it out. CTA is straight time, so that would equal 3 days for CTA if you can't get anything else. Instead of people getting 4 days of special each month. If you want more hours of O.T..... go to court.
it is so sad that i have to have 20+ yrs to work 1 day a month in the fuckin ghetto.. when other dept around the states have so many gigs for officers that they can actually work all there days off if they choose and make more then there salery just on overtime if they choose.. ex.. bulls, bears, cubs, sox, all summer festivals, auto show airport... u have firms conected to certain alderman "monteray" that have all the contracts instead of the city... what a fuckin joke! why doesnt FOP do something or how about we bring this up?
Listen to all these little crying bitches. Well gues what boys & girls...Safe city is NOT (get it ,NOT) a contractual issue.
So when they change the process, and they will (you heard it here first) only making it available to certain units (yeah, all you haters,certain units) all you salty veterans who have "put your time in" will be shit out of luck.
And the only ones to blame will be yourselves, laughing at checkoff about how you got one over on the city because you didn't do shit for eight hours.
You can end this thread now because that is a fact.
Detectives are THE BEST.....Just ask them!! They will tell you
just study harder next time kid, .. did you have to swallow and then not get promoted ???
Just as lazy do nothing assholes should be punished, and what better way to punish someone than hitting them in the pocket! And just make Special not available to detectives just as how it is not available to Sgts. Id say detectives make enough money for a sub .500 clearance rate!
If writing a clear, legible sentence was a prerequisite for special you would fall a little short. If this is an example of your case reports, it is a wonder the clearance rate is as good as it is.
"Lighten up Francis.
2/22/2010 03:53:00 PM"
buddy, if Francis gets any lighter, he'll turn into a she.
Activity?I answer my jobs in a timely fashion,arrest someone if needed and ALWAYS back up my fellow officers.Parkers,movers and contact cards?All bullshit for the sake of numbers.28 years and,yes,I do have tuition and other bills to pay just like you.So I'll keep takin that special.
Anonymous said...
For the same reason detectives shouldn't make a higher pay grade for working CTA or safe-city.
Detectives make increased wages due to the additional skills that they possess through training. They offer more to the department, so deserve more pay. However, while working CTA special they are not using their special training or skills. They are riding buses, and don't deserve extra pay.
Well, same thing in this situation. Only street-officers should be allowed to work street-overtime. The skill set you use in your cubicle is not what safe-city needs for operation, so no matter how productive you are in the medical section, there is no way to quantify that and translate it for comparison to street-officers. As one other poster put it--if you don't want to work the streets and you go inside, then keep your ass inside all the time.
2/22/2010 12:14:00 AM
What you obviously fail to realize is that to get to D2, D2A you must pass D1.
So I'll continue to get my airport while you can't.
Oh yeah, when the department restricted some OT to 9161, I stopped writting movers and parkers. Inover qualified!
"There is not a "quota" in place - but a Sgt or LT needs to look across all the guys on his watch and tell those who don't bring in any real activity to pick it up"
AGREED !!
What ever happened to 5 parkers, a mover and a bus check? If you couldn't do that in the 1st hour of your tour, you got what was coming. It wasn't a quota, it was just what you needed to stay in the good graces of your watch.
Sometimes I really miss the 'good old days' when the Capt. was never there, the Lt. would throw you out of his office and the desk Sgt. was all you needed. Too much touchy-feely has created a bunch of pussies. Grow a set boys and girls.
Anonymous said...
I like it...maybe some dog ass losers will either 1) get off their ass and work for a change or 2) not be able to clog up special so that someone with over a decade on this fucking job can get more than 1 day a month if youre lucky! Hard work SHOULD be rewarded! Just as lazy do nothing assholes should be punished, and what better way to punish someone than hitting them in the pocket! And just make Special not available to detectives just as how it is not available to Sgts. Id say detectives make enough money for a sub .500 clearance rate!
2/22/2010 03:47:00 PM
Tell me what it takes to clear a homice tough guy??
almost 15 years and I didnt get special.
FUCK!!! need the money, hope to get next time.
SENIORITY RULES. PUT IN THE TIME
Why all this infighting? Everyone brags on this job how hard they work or how little they work! It just takes one second and you are gone! Activity will not save your life! Your old/young partner might! Quit with all the "Ranger" "Real Police" "I work in Englewood" crap! When the Grim Reaper comes looking for you, ain't no discrimination! Young guys and girls will become the old timers soon enough! Old timers will retire and hopefully collect lots of checks! Stop bumrapping seniority! It is the only thing we all have left! Lot of you on this blog have to grow up! Civilians read these responses and wonder how old some of you are! You sound like spoiled kids! Someone actually suggested that senior officers refrain from working extra days because the younger officers need the money more! You need help immediately! You, my friend are fried! Time you were sent to Callback! Divide and conquer, I'm sure is your motto! You are one of those, "its all about me!"
For the same reason detectives shouldn't make a higher pay grade for working CTA or safe-city.
Detectives make increased wages due to the additional skills that they possess through training. They offer more to the department, so deserve more pay. However, while working CTA special they are not using their special training or skills. They are riding buses, and don't deserve extra pay.
Well, same thing in this situation. Only street-officers should be allowed to work street-overtime. The skill set you use in your cubicle is not what safe-city needs for operation, so no matter how productive you are in the medical section, there is no way to quantify that and translate it for comparison to street-officers. As one other poster put it--if you don't want to work the streets and you go inside, then keep your ass inside all the time.
2/22/2010 12:14:00 AM
You are an ASS HOLE!! Get some time on the job, little man & you too can become a detective or an inside person. This job is seniority & you'll never catch me!!
Thats the fucking problem with this job now too many fucking cry babies. The young officers have no idea what senority is and what it is about. TOO BAD go work a security job like every other copper has done to feed and take care of their family, years ago we didn't have the overtime opportunities taht we do now so what did we do, we worked security gigs, so quit your fucking crying,if you don't like it go to Wal Mart.--- Signed OLD TIME DETECTIVE.
Thats the fucking problem with this job now too many fucking cry babies. The young officers have no idea what senority is and what it is about. TOO BAD go work a security job like every other copper has done to feed and take care of their family, years ago we didn't have the overtime opportunities taht we do now so what did we do, we worked security gigs, so quit your fucking crying,if you don't like it go to Wal Mart.--- Signed OLD TIME DETECTIVE
Let's bring this to the real world. You hire someone to do your landscaping and tell them you'll pay them by the hour. Do you want the guy who works his ass of for the pay and finishes quickly or the one who takes their time and dogs it? NO!!! Nobody here would stand for that, so why should OT $ be based only on seniority? There are going to be 6 criteria that will determine who gets it. If a person is strictly inside and doesn't get activity they will be rated on their previous activity of other overtime initiatives.
Plenty of ways to get Overtime out here! If you don't know how then you ain't trying or just don't want it! For you young guys go on a tact teams and make arrests!
When I was younger that is what I did! I worked Tact, Gangs and even worked a Traffic car for a while and got D.U.I. arrests! Plenty of Drunk Drivers out on the roads at night, go get them!
D.U.I. arrests are great court time for at least a couple of years worth of continuances! I actually was happy with those because I checked the money box every time!
Do you want to know something kids, I averaged over 50 hours a period in court time without trying! Yes, I have my old pay stubs to prove it!
There are plenty of ways to make money out here! So quit being lazy!
Seniority is something NOT to be messed with nor bargained away, EVER!
My last statement,
DO your time kid like everyone else and soon you'll get yours too!
You will find yourself one day using the "Seniority card" to your advantage one day for whatever it may be i.e. Furlough picks, watch Bids, Overtime .. etc! Lets' see how you act then!
Truth is bringing in activity doesn't reward you in anyway, even in your own unit of assignment. You could be the go-to person in the unit by the supervisors 'cause they know you will get it done. They overlook the dogs 'cause they know they won't get it done. Being the go-to person STILL doesn't say you will be the CHOSEN ONE for great gigs, 'cause they still give the great gigs to the do nothings or clouted do-nothings to get them out of the way....I've seen it at HSq. The bottom line is supervisors don't know how to supervise and don't know how to handle the dead meat. In the meantime, morale sucks.
Let's bring this to the real world. You hire someone to do your landscaping and tell them you'll pay them by the hour. Do you want the guy who works his ass of for the pay and finishes quickly or the one who takes their time and dogs it? NO!!! Nobody here would stand for that, so why should OT $ be based only on seniority? There are going to be 6 criteria that will determine who gets it. If a person is strictly inside and doesn't get activity they will be rated on their previous activity of other overtime initiatives.
Spoken like a true FNG. Answer this, what will your argument be when you have the seniority and the new guys are taking all the OT.
There is not a "quota" in place - but a Sgt or LT needs to look across all the guys on his watch and tell those who don't bring in any real activity to pick it up.
You are being judged against your peers - beat officer vs beat officer on the same watch.
You can't honestly tell me that it doesn't burn you when a guy comes back with zeros because he couldn't find anything and laughs about it - carrying your weight is not too much to ask
2/22/2010 10:20:00 AM
Carrying your weight is not too much to ask at all! Everyone else gets a raise, so should we. Everyone else gets “probation”, we get sent to some shithole fed pen in La.
Ohhhh, your talking about “Us”, just the “Cops”…. For years, the “Connected” get whatever they want, what do you get? (Answer: FUCKED!) For years, the “Connected” get away with shit you and I get suspended or fired for. I, just like you think the worker NEEDS to be rewarded! And I’m not talking about “Good job on that arrest, here’s the CR to go with it kid!” or the Sgt or LT looking to get promoted off of YOUR hard work. Face it, 35th St has freaked the fuck out because arrests were down since J-Fraud got to town. 35th St has to send out a video, a memo, a pax, bla, bla, bla, all about “We have your back” (I actually vomit in my throat every time I hear a “boss” say that). No one wants to work anymore, mostly because of two reasons: TRUST, no one trusts anyone anymore! Oh, I trust that J-Fraud will stick it in my ass if I fuck up. I trust the fact that 3/4ths of the bosses are afraid to make a decision. I trust the fact that this once great department has turned into a laughable joke of ineptitude and incompetence. The other reason is APATHY, no one cares anymore. No one cares to the point that a fucking 14 year old shithead can ride around with us for a tour and no one really fucking care. No one cares to the point of one of our own is sitting in a federal pen, because some wanna-be Cop used his phone call to fuck him, and HOW MANY turned up for his appeal hearing? There should have been BUS LOADS in front of the Federal building! No one trusts YOU any more either! And if you doubt me, just look above the rear view mirror in your squad at the camera. Hear about the Alderman that wants us to take pictures of parking violators? They don’t TRUST YOU OVER A FUCKING PARKING TICKET! The last case at 26th St, how’d that go for ya? Did the politically appointed Judge or the 12 that aren’t smart enough to get out of jury duty believe you? Let’s just go with your Lt, Capt, and Commander…. Do they trust you? Do they truly care about you? Or do they just care about how many ANOVS, Parkers, Movers (AKA Revenue) you brought in? That hot ride you got last week aint making the City any money, neither is the 50 sack with the pistol. (I’ll give you a hint, you can’t use the car as leverage for info, you MUST impound it! Then what are you going to write on the case report? What’s a rule 14?)
I can go on, and on, but the more I do, the sicker I get. Its pathetic how bad this department has gotten. Come see me in a few years, tell me where all that “Hard Work” and “Real Activity” has gotten you. You may just have gotten 20 part ones this period, and I’d probably call you a decent cop, tell you “Damn, man, good job!” but if you haven came in with your share of ANOVS or Movers, you aint shit in the eyes of your bosses or this dept!
I know two working officers in 007Who refuse to write parkers/movers get broken up beacuse of this. Bullshit.
"If a person is strictly inside and doesn't get activity they will be rated on their previous activity of other overtime initiatives.
2/23/2010 01:04:00 AM"
You just brought us back to la-la-land. Six criteria weighted to favor the inside clouted hack with low seniority.
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