Tuesday, February 23, 2010

Crash Question

There's a tendency for everyone to second guess or Monday morning quarterback a tragic event. Most times, it's an effort to understand why something happened or figure out who's to blame. We suppose it's natural, but can be construed as inappropriate so close to the event. We deleted a few of those comments in the original post yesterday because we stated that it was for prayers and remembrances only.

But reviewing the comments, one stood out. And an e-mail last night reinforced our disquiet. The comment stated the following:
  • [from a cop on traffic control at the scene] Would you believe that I was waved down by a City snowplow driver on the inner drive and he stated that they were under orders...NOT to salt Lakeshore Drive!

    The City Snowplow Driver seemed sincere and pissed off that a needless accident had to happen because of his direct orders.
The e-mail was a bit more damning:
  • A friend who monitored the radio transmission this morning stated that someone from streets n san broadcasted the following...No More Salt On Lake Shore Drive"! That was before the Sgt Crashed. Can someone pull the tapes for that Sgt's family! I figured your the best source of info relay
We can only assume the radio transmission was over the Streets and San radio net and we have no idea if their stuff is recorded and saved like ours and what sort of legal compunctions they might be under to preserve the tapes.

We would really really hate to think that some bureaucrat pinching pennies on salt distribution during what was supposed to be a pretty heavy winter storm may have contributed in some fashion to the death of one of our own.

Labels:

182 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

what kind of shape were the tires in?

2/23/2010 12:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Hey SCC:

Condolences to the Hayamker family. The vehicle he was using (7424)was a pool vehicle.It had over 127,000 miles on it and was rebuilt form other Chevy's. The air bags did not deploy. One can only guess on the conditions of the tires and their treads.

2/22/2010 02:45:00 PM

SCC,

If this is true please do a thread on this subject. I am IRATE about this posting. There should be HELL to pay if this Sgt lost his life due to the City of Chicago saving a few bucks.

2/22/2010 11:09:00 PM

I second this post from another thread. We can not allow the City of Chicago to literally kill us; through lack of manpower, wretched vehicle conditions and failure to salt the streets in hazzardous conditions.

Sgt Haymaker was a 56yr old experienced Sgt, not some new inexperienced recruit. He had responded to literally thousands of calls in his career and was an experienced driver. I believe that multiple external factors contributed to his premature death, none of them his fault. How many of us have to die needlessly?

God Bless Sgt Haymaker!

2/23/2010 12:16:00 AM  
Blogger Det. Shaved Longcock said...

It is not pinching pennies on salt. Mr. Asshole Mayor Daley doesn't want salt on Lake Shore Drive due to the salt killing the plants in the center planters. Plain and simple.

People over fucking plants.

We have 3 CPD officers who will never return to this job due to those planters. They were all critically injured in accidents involving center planters.

20 years ago the US DOT ordered all traffic control signals removed from the middle of the streets due to fatal accidents. They replaced them with overhead traffic control signals. Usually from "arms" off the curb side poles.

But this Mayor feels that cement planters in the middle of the streets are OK.

As SCC would say... UNFUCKING BELIEVABLE!

2/23/2010 12:18:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If anyone knows the family please advise them of this situation before the tapes disappear. We all know how Chicago's Corruption Machine operates.

I am no fan of litigation but the family needs to retain a powerful attorney ASAP.

We don't need anymore good officers or civilians getting prematurely killed to save Daley dollars.

2/23/2010 12:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The media is always blind to the obvious story.

If this poor, innocent Sgt died needlessly, because someone wanted to save a few dollars, then heads should roll.

2/23/2010 12:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

He was responding to a burglary in progress call. Did they catch this guy. He should be charged with murder of a police officer, he's responsible.

2/23/2010 12:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Tired of Unsafe Vehicles said...

I am not here to second guess the sarge. But I did notice that he was driving one of the older Impalas. Knowing the city's tendency to force us to push cars beyond the limit. And to half-ass fix them (you truly wouldn't believe the shoddy job on our unmarkeds) how friggin' safe was his car to begin with??? It's kind of hard to justify getting into shit, when you know you put officers in danger if you have to call for help just by them feeling the need to get in a hurry in these pieces of scrap metal they make us drive.

2/23/2010 12:29:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There were postings that referenced bald tires. This looks really bad.

2/23/2010 12:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

theres the 40mph to prevent the salt from hitting the medin tress so your theory wont surprise me

2/23/2010 12:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did any other accidents occur on LSD during this time frame? There has to be an interested attorney out there who could put the pieces together.

2/23/2010 12:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This topic is obviously a very touchy issue with the needless death of a good copper but we must demand that the truth emerges. This will occur again otherwise.

We must stand UNITED!

2/23/2010 12:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder how many people died when Bilandic mucked up the snow removal. Daley has got to go!!!

2/23/2010 12:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Last month, I was chastised for going over the air and telling my cars not to use the sidestreets unless they had to. We had already handled three non-driveable civilian accidents due to unsalted side streets that morning. The other district on our zone had a BAD squad car crash due to no salt on a major street shortly after I said that on the air.

I guess the city would rather pay out on lawsuits than pay for salt and keep everyone safe.

It's hard to face at a time of such a devastating loss, but the family needs to pursue the truth here. Godspeed.

2/23/2010 12:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There was also a post by a citizen who saw the car, who said the tires were nearly bare of treads.

2/23/2010 12:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone also posted the airbags didn't deploy either. It was a pool car w/127,000 miles on it. No doubt it contributed to the accident. We should start REFUSING to drive these shitboxes. It is absolutely sickening to think that a shit car and no salt contributed GREATLY to the accident.

2/23/2010 12:49:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Where is the FOP and the PBPA?

2/23/2010 12:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is time to March again, we have lost two officers that were directly related to the Mayor's disregard for our safety.

2/23/2010 12:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How many of us must die needlessly before this city takes public safety seriously?

2/23/2010 12:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wait - i just read a post on another thread that says the AIRBAG did not deploy and this was a 127,000 mile pool car?????

Can anybody from the scene verify?

2/23/2010 12:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If one of the politicians died you would be hearing about this endlessly on the news.

The City of Chicago thinks we are disposable.

2/23/2010 12:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How ironic if true. And whos in charge of streets and san now? An ex CPD boss. Another moron Daley flunky going from job to job getting taken care of. Only in Chicago can a guy that has absoultely no experince in the field be the commissioner of the second largest department in the city. But hey theres a guy running the police department thats never been a cop.

2/23/2010 01:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

also, those cars are equiped with side impact airbags. he was wearing his seatbelt. airbags did not deploy. word around is that it was a pool car with a high amount of miles. poorly maintained vehicle, cutting corners to save a few bucks, no salting lsd and we now have a tragedy. I know that there will not be any internal investigation... hopefully an outsider can help

2/23/2010 01:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Not to mention the unsafe vehicle that we all know the good sgt was driving. You know those tires were bald. All of our vehicles are that way. Marked and unmarked. Was there an airbag in that vehicle or not? If yes, it didn't work, if no, we all deserve to be driving a vehicle with two.

I'm sure Jody's, Jimmy's, Bea's, Steve's, Dan's, Ernie's, Tom's, and all civilian former FBI fks' vehicles are in perfect operating order. Oh wait, they have drivers to care for their vehicles and drive their selfish asses around whenever they want.

I'm terribly sorry to say this, but you'll see all the above assses shiny new vehicles on the soon dreaded day. None of them should be welcomed. Everything happening to all of us is directly the fault of those names above.

2/23/2010 01:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Weiss, now would be a good time to make some steps towards redemption! Speak out for our departed comrade.

All Shortshanks can do is fire you...you'll still get paid.

2/23/2010 01:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a question should also be raised as to the mechanical condition of the squad car--- any sgts who used that car care to comment..... lately we have been getting some real junks since the 4/2 rotation started, stuff that when driven over fifty miles an hour starts to shake and hop all over the road....

2/23/2010 02:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That same night I was out enjoying a few "sodas" with friends while reveling in the USA Men's Hockey Team taking the almighty Canadian squad down a notch or two. Took a cab back home late that evening (definitely before the crash) and I remember noticing just how shitty the LSD conditions were that night. We may as well have ridden a sled home that night. It was a snowy, icy, slushy mess.

RIP Sergeant Haymaker

2/23/2010 02:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Due to new EPA rules,we can only use so much salt per program. The City now owns 3 trucks that spray beet juice on Lake Shore Drive.

Alot of suburbs went to beet juice more than 10 years ago.

2/23/2010 02:30:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The vehicle was a pool car for a pool car for vehicle 6305? a prototype SUV. Vehicle #7424 was used to replace the original pool car because the original pool car had 111,000 miles on it and the power steering was going out along w/ the engine. Vehicle 7424 had over 121,000 miles and inside looked as if it was the result of cannabilization. All kinds of different car parts harvested to make one functioning car. The steering wheel did not appear to have the wear and tear of a veh. w/ 121,000 miles on it. Also the drivers air bag did not deploy. Makes you wonder about the tires condition and wear and tear. Was this vehicle in the condition where it could respond to corrective driving techiques or is this representative of many many vehicles out there that are patched together just to have a car that moves??? All the maintenance records are at Area 3 Garage...... I'm just asking???

2/23/2010 02:32:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can only assume the radio transmission was over the Streets and San radio net and we have no idea if their stuff is recorded and saved like ours and what sort of legal compunctions they might be under to preserve the tapes.

their stuff is recorded but after 24
or 48 hours the cd/dvd gets written over and you would want the tape from what they call channel 7

2/23/2010 05:05:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why didn't the air bag deploy?

2/23/2010 05:08:00 AM  
Anonymous John Q. Public said...

It's not the salt distribution that is at stake, it's the flowers. The salt destroys the plants in the center of the drive. Daley can't have his beautification program marred by something as unnecessary as making roadways safer.

Come on SCC, what are you new here? It's a tragic lesson learned over and over again. Daley will still continue to operate as a dictator and some Strets and Sans guy wil take the hit for him. Business as usual.

Rest in Peace Sarge. May God help ease your family's pain through this darkest of times and may He hold you in His hands for all eternity.

2/23/2010 05:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rip, Sgt..

2/23/2010 05:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RIP brother. How about some news reporter take the time to measure the tread on our old used tires. I got a flat from a monster pothole in the squad car, and got a tire that looked worse than my flat tire as a replacement.

2/23/2010 05:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

No salt is the SOP for clearing snow off LSD. Salty slush would be thrown on the center meridian killing the foliage.
My thoughts and prayers are with the Sergeant and his family. Rest in peace.

2/23/2010 05:52:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The city will go after me if I don't shovel their sidewalk in front of my house. Is the city not accountable for street clearing? Isn't that what city stickers pay for? Plus city gas tax?

2/23/2010 06:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Not Surprised said...

I heard from another copper about the No Salt order. He has a good friend in streets and San.

The streets and San guy claimed the order came from the guy in charge of LSD for streets.

The copper got the info before it was announced that the Sgt was DOA. I was told about it at 08:00 yesterday.

GreT job Tom thumb, anything to look good for your master.

Makes you think.

2/23/2010 06:16:00 AM  
Anonymous Just Wondering said...

Do you really need the radio transmissions?

Can't a good lawyer just subpoena all the drivers that day (working LSD) and find out under direct testimony during a deposition?


Just wondering?


Can somebody with a Law degree inform?

My prayers and thoughts go out to the CPD family and the SGT's family.

A civilian.

2/23/2010 06:43:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

INFO FROM A POLICEMAN WHO KNOWS ABOUT STREETS/SAN RADIO AND RADIO IN GENERAL:

Over the years, they have had the ability to record transmissions on any if not all of the S&S repeaters. Usually this was done to capture the MDC1200 signalling code that identifies from the individual radios (to catch a guy swearing on the air, stepping on a supervisor's radio traffic, etc.) The recording, repeater control (voters, transmitter switching, console priority) is all at City Hall, not OEMC. The repeater transmitters are all on Presidential Towers, tall and powerful enough to leave no ambiguity that when a guy keys the repeater, everyone will hear it.

Recording radio traffic is done on the city's volition, it is NOT an FCC requirement under part 90.

First thing the Plaintiff should do: is subpoena ALL S&S radio tapes going all the way back to the beginning of the storm (I recall it being Sunday at 1530 or so. This should include all PAX and POTS lines as well as data from 311.

If the city feins that there is no recordings or is unresponsive, then subpoena the time sheets for the S&S snow command operations. You need to know who was working, their assignments, truck numbers and most importantly ANY breaches to the schedule such as no-shows, medicals, etc. that effect plow operations.

Someone needs to find that driver that made the statement to the policeman (No more salt on LSD)!!!!

Depose all S&S drivers to obtain a statement that they heard an order given over the snow command channel of no more salt. We need the time the order was given.

Subpoena all employee log books, worksheets. Get their policy manual (if they got one) that entails when a supervisor can order up or cancel salt application on the street.

Call in each and every S&S supervisor and PIN DOWN who called the order out.

Find old retired S&S bosses (unlike the twirps that they have now) and depose them on how it was done back in the day.

More info to follow when i think of it. I hope it helps the Sergeant's Family.

2/23/2010 06:54:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

OT- I want to take the time to acknowledge all the CFD personnel who took the time to post their condolences on our blog. I recently had the occasion to use CFD facilities and the Firemen there could not have been more hospitable. "Our house is your house" was told to me by more than one fireman. Thank you, gentlemen.

2/23/2010 07:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The family should absolutely demand answers.

2/23/2010 07:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Someone should subpoena the tapes before someone buries them.

2/23/2010 07:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

For those that have this info, you should call the FOP now before the tapes disappear. This is unacceptable.

RIP brother.

2/23/2010 07:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe Fran can get to the bottom of this.

2/23/2010 07:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Did you see the car? it wasn't a front-end collision so the airbags wouldn't have deployed...

2/23/2010 07:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I first started and got sent to 015 I had the chance to work with AL, He was a great guy and showed me alot. Godbless Him and his family he will be missed.

2/23/2010 07:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The story about the order not to salt LSD is true. The media is on to this already. There were a bunch of plow drivers tha stopped by and they were sickened to see the crash. If this doesn't get covered up it will be explsive for a top boss in S&S.

2/23/2010 07:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hopefully some copper that is a friend of the family has informed them of the steps to take to preserve the squad until a proper investigation can be conducted....by somebody other than the City. But I know that is not where there priorities lie. God bless them.

2/23/2010 07:50:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My thoughts and prayers are with this officer's family and all of the brave men and women of CPD.

Retired ISP.

2/23/2010 07:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is very possible.

The reason that the Speed Limit on LSD is lowered during the winter months is not for the safety of the public. It is to prevent the salty slush from killing Shortshanks precious flowers, shrubs and trees that he planted in the medians. That fact can be looked up.

Another thing, if there were adequate district manpower manning the beat cars, not down on silly missions, not sent to "elite units, but in the district cars, maybe some other cops would have gotten there earlier and given a slowdown?

And also, how are our vehicles being maintained? Tires and brakes being worn out and have to fail before being replaced. Are other city departments, Fire, Streets and San also having their vehicle maintance budgets cut?

Any reporter want to probe these questions.

God Bless Sgt. H. and the C.P.D.

Stay safe everyone. the most dangerous thing we do working is drive.

2/23/2010 07:57:00 AM  
Blogger LATHROP ONE said...

Ouch SCC


The wound is still open Brother.
While Im NEVER going to say this article has bad timing,YES this needs to be addressed. As does the allegations that the car had bald tires,was pieced together from other cars and had well over 120K miles on it and to me was UNFIT TO DRIVE. Many witnesses to the accident saw the condition of the car. and if as you state,the City PURPOSELY WITH HELD SALT FROM LSD,then may the Family of Alan SUE THE SHIT out of them.Its bad enough the cars are bad to say the least and dangerous. while it may be too soon to circle the wagons around this cause,I think personally the timing is RIGHT. While it is still fresh in our hearts and minds. If you do nothing else on this job,do something for the Sarge.

OSHA? Are you reading this?
FOP are you sober enough to fight on THIS cause?
Insofar as the "tapes" are concerned with S&S good luck with that. Im not sure that they maintain audio records like the Police Dept does.Ill have to check and get back with you on that. Im sure some radio hobbyist has a sound byte of the broadcast.They,like CPD use ID burst with their radios so one cold narrow it down as to whom gave that order.

2/23/2010 08:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes A thorough investigation needs to be done on behalf of the sergeant and his family. On top of the tapes being pulled the vehicle itself needs to be preserved and inspected to make sure no mechanical problems contribute into the fatal crash. These vehicles shouldn't be on the streets,less be driven any speed over the posted speed limit.
On the first snow fall I had a vehicle that kept getting stuck on the snow and sliding all over the place almost causing me to wreck. I went to the area to see if I could get 4 new tires for the vehicle because all of the tires were bald. The attendant told me that he could not give me 4 but only replace the front two. I said I would be happy to at least get two new tires. When he replaced the front tires,he inspected the the old tires and told me these will be back. I gave him a crazy look and said "what", he said that Fleet will look at these tires and say they are OK to be used as replacement tires for flats. They would be sent back to be put in service. People if you could of seen these tires you would be scared to drive anywhere on these tires.
So while alot of questions need to be answered I hope the Family gets an attorney and puts a hold on the vehicle before any evidence get lost.

2/23/2010 08:23:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God Bless you Al!
If anyone is in heaven it is you. You are a true believer.


To Everyone: Al was THE most cautious guy that was out there.. he really took NO chances.
This goes to show you if it can happen to him, it could happen to anyone. I hope the city is pursued on their negligence to refuse to salt on such a dangerous road. The city had the option of closing down the drive as they have done many times in the past.


PLEASE.. Be Careful in everything you do out there for the sake of your families.

2/23/2010 09:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Team Blue and SCC,

Could you post some pictures of your cars, tires and other relevant equipment safety issues?

2/23/2010 09:06:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM

says Tom Thumb......

2/23/2010 09:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is precedent for a lawsuit.

Lawsuit: State failed to keep road clear before fatal crash


By TRENT SPINER
Union Leader Correspondent
Wednesday, Jan. 28, 2009

BRENTWOOD – A Canadian company is suing the state Department of Transportation for $2.5 million, alleging the failure to clear ice and snow off Interstate 93 led to the death of a 6-year-old boy.

http://www.unionleader.com/

2/23/2010 09:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey 4:26am are you a boss? I worked with the Sgt in 15 years ago and anyone who worked with him will tell you he alway did the speed limit and drove with care. He said numerous times "you have to drive safe in order to get there". So do me a favor and shut up and go drink some more of your 35th & Mich kool-aid.

2/23/2010 09:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

PBPA, where are you? Act on the sergeant's behalf and have that car and those tapes held. NOW.

2/23/2010 09:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TRUE !!!!!!! ..... over the air, drivers were pulled off of LSD to salt inside streets ..... they keep one truck north and one south for blow outs and off ramps until the program is shut down .... everything comex from your old buddy BRYNES ..... everyone at S&S is afraid of him...... we can only get two buckets of salt now when our trucks hold three .... we spend more time back forth to the salt piles then hitting the streets ..... im SICKENED AND UPSET that your coworker died from money pinching and the screw over the MTD union ...... Downtown snow plow driver

2/23/2010 09:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Annonymous said:

I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

YOU MY FRIEND ARE AN ASS!!! And hopefully not a police officer. If what they are saying about road conditions and vehicle shape - someone has to be held responsible! Or perhaps you are one of the drivers who gets to be in a brand new car everyday.

It is sad that this is acceptable to you. RIP Sgt. Haymaker

2/23/2010 09:39:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can go back and forth on who is at fault, but the end result is WE HAVE LOST ANOTHER BROTHER. Let the family mourn before everyone starts throwing accusations. We all know that the City or Department will never claim fault. ANOTHER REASON TO STICK TOGETHER!
RIP Alan Haymaker. Lets send our brother home and then do what we have to do so this will not happen again. MARCH!!!

2/23/2010 09:51:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was on the drive at 4:55 AM. I enetered the drive at Irving Park, on the way to plow my business in the 11th ward.

saw plows going northbound in eschelon formation, no salt. southside looked freshly plowed, but i'll tell you, it was icy as a rink. Very little traffic on the drive at the time, the far left and far right lanes were the worst. It was sheet ice in spots.

RIP Sgt. Haymaker

2/23/2010 09:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why didn't the airbags go off?

2/23/2010 10:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I worked with Sgt. Haymaker in 15 for years, and I can tell you that he never drove reckless or overly fast tword anything. I mean its hard to judge not bieng there but, it really makes you wonder about the condition of the car or the road because he was just not a balls out kind of guy. RIP

2/23/2010 10:35:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM

Tom Thumb, stay off the blog.

2/23/2010 10:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been watching the news and haven't seen Jody Weis say a word about the death of this sergeant.

WTF?? Is he on furlough playing with his cats?

And then the response from King Dick, he could care less. Jebus cripes at least fake it a little.

If it is true about the no salt order from the oompa loompa at S&S, Fuck you too. You disgust me that you wore a star at one time.

2/23/2010 11:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My heartfelt condolences to the Haymaker Family, the 23rd District and my Fellow Officers

THE AIRBAGS DID NOT DEPLOY!

This has me worried.

Some months ago I noticed that the AIRBAG WARNING LIGHT on my regular car was on. I asked the R-Man (Fleet Management) about it an he said that the airbag would not work and filled out shop ticket. I work midnights so I asked the day crew to take the car in and have this and another problem fixed. A few days later, the car was back an the warning light was OFF.

Was it off because they fixed the airbag system, or was it off because they disconnected the warning light?

This has me worried. I have left a notice that if I am killed in any Squad Car related crash, and the airbags do not deploy as expected, that my family should sue the bejesus out of the city.
Maybe the manufacturer for allowing an airbag system that will have the car run with it has been sabotaged.

2/23/2010 11:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this needs to be addressed!!! I will not second guess the sgts actions but I will always wonder about the condition of the vehicle as I know fully what type of shit equipment we work with daily. I also would want a full investigation into the city not salting LSD!!!

2/23/2010 11:15:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice to see what The Chicago Tribune thinks of a Chicago police sergeant killed in the line of duty! The story is buried on page 14. UNBELIEVABLE!!!!

2/23/2010 11:17:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What does the FOP have to say???? Where are the union officials on this??? Are they asking questions? Our prayers go out to the Sgt.s' family. And it really makes you pause and reflect on the fact that a 50+ man was STILL out on the streets in a young mans' game trying to get the bad guy. Any guy out there in the streets at 50 or over has got our respect.

2/23/2010 11:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no doubt that the condition of the vehicle and the road was the cause of the crash! The vehicles we drive are dangerous. PERIOD!! If we were to complain about all the safety issues and down the cars we would all be on foot and the bosses would go nuts on us.

2/23/2010 11:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On Monday, while giving his very fake and insincere press conference on the death of a CPD officer, shortshanks called him Sgt HAYMARKET. Thanks Richie for caring so much

2/23/2010 11:28:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I know the " tape" would be a great asset in court, but there is more than one worker who would have actually heard that transmission, subpeona them to court.
I am so sorry for the family of Sgt Haymaker and rest in peace Sarg. I hope for the family that this gets resolved quickly and that justice prevails if there was negligence involved.

2/23/2010 11:34:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pray for our dead.

Work like hell for the living.

Please take a moment and view this 3 minute and 43 second video from Tirerak.com. It is vey informative on how to check your tires on your squad cars AND your personal vehicles using coins. It also shows comparisons of stopping distances on wet roads for new, worn and very worn tires.

View it, and for God's sake check your tires on everything you drive. Driving is the most dangerous thing we do.

http://www.tirerack.com/videos/video_popup.jsp?video=5

Stay safe, I want to see what happens when we bring in cars for tire tread depth less than 4/32 of an inch. Sunday vehicle inspections?

2/23/2010 11:36:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just sent the post about the Tirerak.com video and I thinking. Maybe FOP should bust a few bucks and send each watch rep a tire depth guage.

If not that, how about a quarter, just askin'.

2/23/2010 11:39:00 AM  
Blogger leomemorial said...

what kind of shape were the tires in?

============================

I had the same question!! These beta cars are in bad condition.

Hey, our NY Mos have stickers on their RMP's: "Arrive Alive"

How about we start passing that phrase around? Be safe & much love

2/23/2010 11:47:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I called Ears Bailey at FOP and he said he would look into getting tapes.

2/23/2010 12:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Haymaker Famnily...God bless you in this time of severe sorrow...I am a police officer and I highly reccommend Steven Phillips....Phillips Law Office in Chicago if any of the above has merit....You better act fast before the vehicle disappears or is modified!! The city would NEVER do that right??? Steven Phillips.....call him!!! Google him....He can put an emergency restriction on the vehicle so NOBODY can touch it and it can be tested!!! DO IT... For Al's sake and the sake of the rest of us officers who are driving dangerous vehicles. God Bless you and your family....May Al rest in peace.

2/23/2010 12:14:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Time for a coup!!!!!!!!!

2/23/2010 12:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its amazing how we cite vehicles that are unsafe to drive, yet we are the ones driving the most unsafe vehicles in the city.

The real problem is the way we are treated if we refuse to drive an unsafe vehicle. The supervisor retaliates and screws you on your next shifts. The supervisor talks about you as if you are being a wuss.

Just like our working conditions. Dirty filthy mold filled office spaces. My allergies and asthma gets worse every day no matter how much I take care of myself physically. It knocks the wind out of my sails and driving an unsafe vehicle with a fuzzy head is not the way I want to operate as a policeman. All due to department and city negligence.

2/23/2010 12:51:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

God Bless, you are in our thoughts and prayers.

From your brothers and sisters at Aurora PD

2/23/2010 12:55:00 PM  
Anonymous The Box Chevy Phantom said...

The Mayor, the Exempts, the Media, the Politicos and a majority of the public feel that Police Officers are disposable.

They'll "tut tut, what a pity" and watch the news raptly.

They have no care or concern about us swallowing bloody tears of outrage, grief and anger.

They chortle and gladly say that we knew about the dangers of the job when we signed on. "Get back to work" is their refrain. They don't want to know or acknowledge in the slightest how human we are. How much we're exposed to man's inhumanity to man. The horrors we witness that has taken years off our lives. Years that we would love to have with our spouses, loved ones and children.

They don't wake up sweating at night after seeing a parade of the dead & dying in their dreams.

They don't have to worry about being followed home, getting run off the road and shot at for doing their jobs.

A split second decision, a choice between living or dying? They second guess gleefully. We're expected to heroically let our lives be taken from us in the moment of truth. They recoil in horror when The Police fight back ferociously. "How dare you fight back! Now stop it, it scares us!"

"Now be brave and succumb quietly so we can forget already."

The Mayor, Superintendent and the Exempts will demand to sit in the front row.

They will wipe false tears for bright TV lights.

Their expressions of condolence will ring hollow.

Their speeches about the shared sacrifice of brotherhood will be a lie.

The Policeman knows the truth. The truth can only be seen through the bloody tears of outrage, grief and anger.

We're considered expendable. They sleep the sleep of innocents because when fear & evil seeks to enter we arrive to secure the breach and deny them entry.

The powers that be are soon to run out of lies to tell.

This orchestrated season of evil, hatred, disrespect and marginalization of the Peacemakers for pure sport and politics is soon to come to an end.

2/23/2010 12:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And lets not forget the fact that Impalas suck as far as being squad cars. That front wheel drive can be tricky. Take home car for exempts ?
Ok...Not for patrol. The 9C1 option is just coolers and stuff, sway bars and the like. Stick with the Crown Vic. Or do the Tahoe. Impalas suck for patrol. Remember the Chevy Lumina as used by the CHA Police ? The same disposable crap from Chevy. RIP Sgt.Haymaker.
You will be missed. 023 Police are the best in the city.

2/23/2010 01:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.


Oops, I forgot to sign this,
Definitely NOT a cop

2/23/2010 01:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

22nd district copper on his way to work, wiped out with his own personal vehicle on LSD. Car is probably totaled. The officer is ok, just bumps and bruises--He and his insurance company should look into whether the city stopped salting the roads.

2/23/2010 01:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sergeant Haymaker, I never had the honor of meeting you sir, but upon reading all the wonderful comments about you, I surmise that the city of Chicago will be a much sadder place without a true hero like yourself. God Bless you and your family thru these difficult times. As you watch over your family in heaven, we brothers and sisters of the CPD, will watch over your family here on earth.

2/23/2010 01:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM
----------
You cold-hearted ASSHAT. Go fuck yourself you piece of shit!

2/23/2010 02:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I work in 023 and have driven that vehicle (7424). It had over 121,000 miles on it. I only drove it if I had to. Way too small with a cage. The cage didn't move during the accident, it's like have a wall behind you. The drivers air bag DID NOT DEPLOY. FOP should get on this regarding what WE can do with regard to having to drive these canabilized vehicles.

2/23/2010 02:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Det. Shaved Longcock said...

It is not pinching pennies on salt. Mr. Asshole Mayor Daley doesn't want salt on Lake Shore Drive due to the salt killing the plants in the center planters. Plain and simple.

People over fucking plants.

We have 3 CPD officers who will never return to this job due to those planters. They were all critically injured in accidents involving center planters.

20 years ago the US DOT ordered all traffic control signals removed from the middle of the streets due to fatal accidents. They replaced them with overhead traffic control signals. Usually from "arms" off the curb side poles.

But this Mayor feels that cement planters in the middle of the streets are OK.

As SCC would say... UNFUCKING BELIEVABLE!

2/23/2010 12:18:00 AM

It appears no one likes these. I'm just a Joe Blow citizen who is on the local CERT team, and do occasional training with the CFD. I have asked quite a few of these people what they think of planters, speed bumps and bullshit flowery roundabouts. All drivers HATE these. They make first responders slow down, cause unsafe conditions during inclement weather, and force delays to rescue. I think they should ALL be removed. If the city is that bent on having flowers, they can offer them at a volume discount to citizens and businesses to buy them, and maintain them themselves. Give them a modest tax credit for doing the work instead of relying on the City to it.

Why does nothing make sense here?

2/23/2010 02:27:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since he's sooo short on salt...next time we march, we bring rock salt and drop it off on the 5th floor in front of his door.

How many pounds do you think we can get up there?

2/23/2010 02:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Chicago Police Memorial Foundation will present a check for $50,000.00 to Mrs. Elaine HAYMAKER. They will also guarantee the education of Sergeant HAYMAKER's daughters.

Rest in Peace, Al. We've got your back.

2/23/2010 02:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM

Obviously you are not the police or you must be an exempt. Whether you are resposible has nothing to do with all the other factors that may lead you to get into an accident. Only a working copper would know that you might often get stuck with some piece of shit car that slides all over the place in less than an inch of snow and you might find out that the tires are half bald or maybe it has been snowing for over four hours and the main street you are on hasn't seen a snowplow all night because Streets and San. is going to wait until the snow stops to start cleaning the streets.

2/23/2010 02:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM

Fuck You

2/23/2010 02:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

at $40.00 yes thats right, forty dollars a ton for salt I think that the city could have used some out there. F*&^ the plants and the foilage.....Commish heard on Channel 1 radio, patrol your streets and do not drop salt.
\
Get the tapes before they are gone!

GET THE TAPES BEFORE THEY ARE GONE!

Thanks to all of the Streets and San guys and gals for being honest and coming foward...and thank you for your questions of concern for the family.
Chicagoans are what matter not the mayor.

2/23/2010 02:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Sgt. Association, time to step up! GET THE TAPES and don't be worried that you won't get promoted to LT.
Act now or GET OUT!

2/23/2010 03:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/02/spin-out-crash-on-icy-ramp-kills-chicago-police-sergeant.html


the weasel can start by indicting daley.....

2/23/2010 03:19:00 PM  
Blogger Elm Creek Smith said...

Anonymous said...
I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM

I see the "blame the victim" society is making its bleats heard. The sergeant was driving a car that from all reports shouldn't have been on the road on his way to a crime in progress. He was probably expecting the street to have been properly salted, so he was most likely driving accordingly under the circumstances.

This was, from all reports, an excellent police officer who was doing his best to protect the City of Chicago. It's a damned shame the City of Chicago didn't provide him the best tools to do his job which most likely contributed to his death.

If you're a police officer, you should be ashamed.

ECS

2/23/2010 03:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The last time I got in a car crash I was working special and the car spun into two parked cars. The tires were bald. The top of vehicle crash report had the words: Was there anything you could have done before you began operating the vehicle to prevent the crash? Ans: Like check the tires?

Tonight we should all check our tires and go get them changed out at the area if they are bald. I knew the sgt and he would appreciate that safety check. Also if you have a vehicle that is unsafe, don't drive it. Let's stop doing the same or more (our jobs) with less (shxty vehicles).

2/23/2010 03:58:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mayor took the repairs of vehicles away form the police motor main. section and transfered it to fleet.
Once they got in, most of our parts disappeard and we started to get cheap, aftermarket parts that soemtimes didn't last a week.
Same thing happened to the fire dept.

2/23/2010 04:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the poster who stated the "blame game" was starting, go FK yourself and stay off this blog! How dare you say it was the responsibility of the driver! I hope that one day you or your family is in need of immediate police service during a snow storm. And, if any police do respond, I hope they drive their bald-tired wrecks safely and slowly to your house.

2/23/2010 04:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

SAVE that vehicle the good Sgt was driving. The family may very well need it for future litigation.
God bless and may he rest in peace.

2/23/2010 04:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Old squads with bald tires and other malfunctioning equipment should not be allowed for the officers to drive. They put their lives on the line daily in dangerous situations, one being going to in-progresss calls.

The vehicles we drive should be in tip-top shape and not the shit boxes that are provided by the city. We are already suffering with critical man-power shortage.

We should refuse to drive any vehicle that is unsafe without backlash and our superiors, i.e. watch commanders and district commanders should stand behind us and demand the same. God bless our Sgt. who gave his life in the line of duty. RIP.

2/23/2010 04:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To whoever wrote;
"Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly."

Written like a true jagoff.

2/23/2010 05:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Sun Times is deleting all posts regarding this NO SALT order!

They are also deleting any posts that mention the condition of the car or airbag deployment.

They are already attempting to cover this up from the public so that no more questions are asked until it's too late.

2/23/2010 05:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's interesting to see our fake supt. J-Fed on the news talking about charging the burglars(if caught)with the death of the officer. He went on to say in the end it would be up to the ASA's office. Well we all know there will then be no charges. Maybe in another county or state, but not in crook county. How about investigating the status of the unsafe vehicle he was in? Glad to see J-Fed was not wearing our uniform.

2/23/2010 05:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2/23/2010 12:18:00 AM

Correct shved like the 2 officers who hit the flower planters on 54th and cicero 1 officer being a recruit! Sorry I am not namimng the coppers but they can be looked up! And chrsity weber landscaping ald mells gay daughters friends company has all the contracts to fill the planters! How much is daley getting paid-off?

2/23/2010 05:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Our FOP will do nothing and remain silent as usual. The have no teeth and will all get Gov. spots when out of office for playing ball with city hall. They are all tight with Daley especially Mark Donahue. Just watch where he goes after he is done.

2/23/2010 05:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I tried to down a car due to faulty brakes. In this case the brakes were grinding, they were loud and obviously unsafe. I contacted motor maintnance and told them exactly what was wrong. To my dismay the following day the car was there! Those idiots at motor maintnance would not down the car. They said all was fine. I refused to take it and therefore waited in the station for a couple of hours for a suitable car. There is no need to go out in an unsafe vehicle. Even if it means waiting for 8hrs!

2/23/2010 05:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

RIP SGT!! Godspeed brother! Now why is it the jags like the mayor,eddie burke,tresurer,exempts have all the beautiful "front line" used and new cars lined up along the fence on 51st and wentworth? Some have 7-3,000 miles all serviced and ready to go,but only for the D-3 valets to cart the chosen ones around! More city bullshit,while we drive junkers,a friend at fleet told me the city is not buying new tires and just repiring old ones,unless it is a frontline car then the best new tires and new rims are ordered!

2/23/2010 05:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm currently on furlo and would like to go to the funeral.

Any postings on the info?

2/23/2010 05:46:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Contract and other bs aside Somebody better do something about this issue. If there is any truth to what is being said here then there needs to be answers and fast. Anger is building. I ha questions myself just looking at the media pictures. That squad looks like it was in iraq. Look at all the damage and no airbags deployed. BTW I saw a southside unmarked today around 215 pm on I55 with half if its rear bumper gone going south.

2/23/2010 06:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the squad will end up like the JFK limo torched per short shanks.

2/23/2010 06:10:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM
-----------------------

You're a reel POS whoever you are. Think about that comment when it takes 30 minute to respond to an in progress call that involves you or a loved one. WOULD you sue because of a delay in service???? What a double standard, PLEASE HELP ME but if you get hurt IT"S YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT.....

2/23/2010 06:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A friend in Streets and San verified the stop salting order. Said rumor has it that it came over the radio from Byrne himself.

2/23/2010 06:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The order to stop salting came in at 0300 hours.

2/23/2010 06:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The vehicle should be preserved as evidence and analyzed by independent authority.

2/23/2010 06:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Dont Forget About this SCC said...

Off topic but im very sorry to post it on this thread especially.. you dont have to post it but just to let you know scc if you wanna just let everyone know that tomorrow is the date when the fop and the city meet with arbitrator ben ironing out the final and most important details concerning our contract. Lets hope for the best. Sgt haymaker, your in my prayers along with your family and friends.

2/23/2010 06:51:00 PM  
Anonymous knucklehead said...

Did you see the car? it wasn't a front-end collision so the airbags wouldn't have deployed...


The vehicle in question, a 2001-2005 chevy impala police package is equipped with side impact and side curtain airbags. the steering wheel front airbag would not have deployed but the side impact and side curtain should have deployed...however, they did not deploy... do some research and learn about cars before you spout off. rest in peace sarge. you wont be forgotten.

2/23/2010 06:57:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why doesn't the F.O.P. invite investigative reporters from all television news outlets to randomly select various vehicles from various stations and show our hideous working conditions . Show the filthy dangerous death traps with between 80-130,000 miles we have to drive. If supervisors chime in that we don't "have to" drive unsafe vehicles maybe our Union should encourage us collectively not to. If it is proven that vehicle defects played any role in that Sgts death,3/4 of our vehicles should be downed.

2/23/2010 07:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to the 02;32 hrs post, Please make sure you have your facts correct: Vehicle 6305 isnot I repeat is not a proto type, SUV it is a 2003 Chev Tahoe assigned to SWAT as a SORT Vehicle, and asa far as bald tires go, none of us has to drive a car with them, Area 3 garage is open 24-7 and you can go into the garage and request four different tires, you will have to change them out yourself but they are available, other options are not to drive it, Allens car was not equipped with side air bags, as it is an older Impala, Maybe this will shake up Fleet which is run by Political Hacls. The city purchased a few hundred new Tahoes and the rest of the fleet was purchased in the 2003-2006 yrs, A few 2007 Impalas bought but thtas it, FOP and PBPA should be all over this, along time ago, we pay these slobs money every paycheck to protect our employment rights but they fail every waking minute. MY Condolences go out to the Haymake family and all the police in the 23rd District.

2/23/2010 07:47:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why dont they ask the civilian boss (ya know the big guy) who runs the MMD and makes all the decisions why he is sending these cars out on the street everyday. Better decision making is needed. Instead of putting tracking devices and cameras in cars, fix our cars. Vehicles go on the street that have old seats put in from junked cars, no padding, your sitting on metal, holes in the floors, wires hanging down on your feet, gas fumes making you sick. ASK HIM WHY? ACCOUNTABILITY

2/23/2010 08:09:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you Mayor Daley, for spending the cities money on bloated,overinflated often unnecessay public work projects so your buddies can get rich, and also thank you for spending too much on hiring way to many exempt and upper level redundant unnecessary and useless managers, instead of spending money where it is truly needed, well staffed safely and properly equipped ,emergency services and basic services in general.

2/23/2010 08:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM

Wait for it. Karma is coming your way.

2/23/2010 08:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I believe on the impala there is a computer memory like a black box that can remember the last 5 seconds before a crash. The memory should show the speed, when the brakes were applied, condition of the anti lock brake system seat belt use,

2/23/2010 08:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Chicago Police Department
Sgt. Alan Haymaker
EOW - 2/22/10

Visitation - Bethel Community Church,

7601 w. Foster, Chicago, IL 60656, on

Thursday, 25 February 2010 from 1500 - 2100 hours and

Friday, 26 February 2010 from 1000 - 1100 hours.



St. Jude- Thursday, 25 February 2010 at 1900 hours



Funeral - Bethel Community Church,

7601 w. Foster, Chicago, IL 60656 on

Friday, 26 February 2010 at 1100 hours.



Interment - Maryhill Cemetery,

8600 N. Milwaukee,

Niles, IL 60714.

2/23/2010 08:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If Ex- Gov Ryan is in prison for the kids that died on the expressway then someone should burn for this one also. This is the same type of case of negligence that causes death.

2/23/2010 08:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

wake thurs funeral fri not sure where or times.

2/23/2010 08:29:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
to the 02;32 hrs post, Please make sure you have your facts correct: Vehicle 6305 isnot I repeat is not a proto type, SUV it is a 2003 Chev Tahoe assigned to SWAT as a SORT Vehicle, and asa far as bald tires go, none of us has to drive a car with them, Area 3 garage is open 24-7 and you can go into the garage and request four different tires, you will have to change them out yourself but they are available, other options are not to drive it, Allens car was not equipped with side air bags, as it is an older Impala, Maybe this will shake up Fleet which is run by Political Hacls. The city purchased a few hundred new Tahoes and the rest of the fleet was purchased in the 2003-2006 yrs, A few 2007 Impalas bought but thtas it, FOP and PBPA should be all over this, along time ago, we pay these slobs money every paycheck to protect our employment rights but they fail every waking minute. MY Condolences go out to the Haymake family and all the police in the 23rd District.

2/23/2010 07:47:00 PM

ATTENTION!!!!!!!!
The sad part here is our FOP never says or does anything publicly or privately for that matter. I know, we see FOP lodges all over the country making public statements fighting tooth and nail for the officers, but this is chicago and our FOP is part of "The Machine" Our FOP likes it that way because it makes us so disgusted that we don't even want to see their political faces at the meetings. I know we should do the opposite, but many of us have the same feeling when we deal with our FOP as when we deal with city hall. FOP is city hall!

2/23/2010 08:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Since he's sooo short on salt...next time we march, we bring rock salt and drop it off on the 5th floor in front of his door.

How many pounds do you think we can get up there?

2/23/2010 02:31:00 PM"


don't you mean tons?

2/23/2010 08:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I work in 023 and have driven that vehicle (7424). It had over 121,000 miles on it. I only drove it if I had to. Way too small with a cage. The cage didn't move during the accident, it's like have a wall behind you. The drivers air bag DID NOT DEPLOY. FOP should get on this regarding what WE can do with regard to having to drive these canabilized vehicles.

2/23/2010 02:10:00 PM


I heard that both ford and chevy have been having problems with these old clunkers when they suddenly caught fire and were consumed by that fire. Probably an electrical fault or something. Perhaps a bolt of greek lighning. Dunno, just happens, no explaining it. Just poof and they are gone, up in smoke. Then to the scrap yard where they can harm no one.

2/23/2010 08:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Why does nothing make sense here?

2/23/2010 02:27:00 PM"


because it's all about the dollars.

2/23/2010 08:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just wish the media and the public knew what Daley has done to a once great police department and just how terrible our equipment is. The sad part is the majoriety of the governments of cities across the country love their police department, but in chicago it's the opposite. When you have a dictator as a mayor going on 22 years in office that will happen. Not that I think we need a huge raise, but I just saw a teamster from McCormick place on the news saying they make $38 an hour. Well a police officer makes around $30 an HR. Kinda sad, but Daley pays the teamster for the votes. 3 years without a contract. HOFFMAN FOR MAYOR!!!!

2/23/2010 08:49:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Was it off because they fixed the airbag system, or was it off because they disconnected the warning light?

2/23/2010 11:12:00 AM"


take a guess.

2/23/2010 08:59:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nice to see what The Chicago Tribune thinks of a Chicago police sergeant killed in the line of duty! The story is buried on page 14. UNBELIEVABLE

NOT TRUE THERE WAS A LITTLE PICTURE ON THE FRONT PAGE BUDDY.
I GUESS THAT'S ALL WE ARE WORTHY OF. "A LITTLE PICTURE"

2/23/2010 09:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if the road conditions were so bad i would think that there would have been more than one crash at and near said location. right?

2/23/2010 09:58:00 PM  
Blogger Tom Mannis said...

Subpoenaes should go out to Mayor Daley and Streets and Sanitation. By the way, can people PLEASE stop saying that Sgt. Haymaker was on an exit ramp? He was NOT on the exit ramp, as my photographs show, and HE DID NOT ATTEMPT TO enter the exit ramp. No exit ramp was involved in this sad incident. See my photos here: http://rogersparkbench.blogspot.com/2010/02/exlusive-chicago-cops-death-on-lsd.html

2/23/2010 10:00:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Kudos to the boss that said that the car never should have been on the road on channel 2. Nice to see that some bosses still have balls. And if this doesnt make you down your car when you get to it out of roll call nothing will. And youre really reaching Jodi by trying to to put the crash on the burglars. Someone should pay for this. But blame also goes to Streets and San for not clearing the roads. As well as motor maintainence for having sub par equipment and pieced together cars.

2/23/2010 10:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To: 2/23/2010 09:19:00 AM

>>Hey 4:26am are you a boss? I worked with the Sgt in 15 years ago and anyone who worked with him will tell you he alway did the speed limit and drove with care. He said numerous times "you have to drive safe in order to get there". So do me a favor and shut up and go drink some more of your 35th & Mich kool-aid.<<

To: 2/23/2010 09:39:00 AM

>>Annonymous said:

I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

YOU MY FRIEND ARE AN ASS!!! And hopefully not a police officer. If what they are saying about road conditions and vehicle shape - someone has to be held responsible! Or perhaps you are one of the drivers who gets to be in a brand new car everyday.

It is sad that this is acceptable to you. RIP Sgt. Haymaker<<

To: 2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM


Anonymous said...
I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

----------
You cold-hearted ASSHAT. Go fuck yourself you piece of shit!

2/23/2010 02:04:00 PM

see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00 AM

Fuck You

To all of the above posters if the officer walked away from the crash with injuries would they made the accident PREVENTABLE OR NON-PREVENTABLE - It would have been ruled non-preventable. Just because he died does not change the facts.

When a plane goes down and the pilot and passengers are killed the investigators do not rule out pilot error as a cause.

2/23/2010 10:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

May Sgt. Haymaker Rest in Peace. The sad part is I made the comment in the Suntimes online about the fact the street should have been salted properly and the fact it is harder to get to in progress calls since the districts are so short of manpower, thanks to our mayor king shorshanks. The comment was deleted in less than an hour. I wonder what political hack called the times and ordered them to remove a comment that shows our mayor is penny pinching and is a factor in causing tragedies such as this. Truth hurts doesn't it you midget mumbling ass. They can't indict you and you band of merry theives quick enough. You have totally ruined a once great department and city.

2/23/2010 10:24:00 PM  
Anonymous Nostradamus said...

Whoever gave the "no salt" order on Lake Shore Drive is clearly culpable of negligence and the involuntary manslaughter of a police officer responding to an in-progress call.

Stand by for "the Chicago Way" cover-up. Watch Daley's media aid and abet the cover-up by their silence.

2/23/2010 10:24:00 PM  
Anonymous WHY?????????? said...

Immediately impound that squad car in a secure location inaccessible to tampering by the City of Chicago and others.

Get the Streets & San audiotaped transmissions and bring the midnight plow drivers and the Commissioner of Streets and San before a grand jury NOW!

R.I.P. Sgt. Al Haymaker

2/23/2010 10:38:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Imagine the Stuttering Prick and the WEISel at the funeral of Sgt. "HAYMARKET".

2/23/2010 10:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How is it that we can loose one of our own and we have to hear about it via the media and Mike Masters! Where were all the bosses?

2/23/2010 11:01:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The airbag in the steering wheel will only deploy from a front end collision. The sensors are in the front bumper. A side airbag deploys on side impacts only. The vehicle the good Sgt. was driving was no doubt as bad as everyone says. Those old Impala's are the worst cars in the fleet. But the crappy condition of the vehicle doesn't seem to be directly related to whether the front airbags deployed. Also, the road conditions must have been horrible for a front wheel drive vehicle to lose control. Front wheel drive vehicles are better in adverse conditions than rear wheel drive vehicles.

2/23/2010 11:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 0426 Shame on u
if we downed every squad that wasn't working properly we would all be on a foot post u hand job

to 0654 hrs
can I vote for u as inspector general

2/23/2010 11:26:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.

2/23/2010 04:26:00

sign your name asshole
so we can drive accordingly when your mom is getting raped or one of your loved ones needs help.

2/23/2010 11:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

2/23/2010 04:26:00

Ignore this POS!

This has to be a Daley spokesperson protecting Da Mayor.

2/24/2010 12:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How about the FOP website.
Not a single mention about the Sgt's death. Not on the main page, current updates, NOWHERE.
Can't someone over just throw up something... anything.

2/24/2010 12:31:00 AM  
Anonymous The Box Chevy Phantom said...

Is j-fart going to burn a phone call and have the burglars Federally indicted? Or how about the numb-nut at S&S who gave the "no salt on lsd" order? Or perhaps that numb-nut's boss?

You know? Kinda like how the G serves it up to organized crime? Send a running indictment up & down their hierarchy?

Hmmm... Just curious...

Especially since one of our own is rotting in federal custody because j-fart burned a phone call...

2/24/2010 12:45:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If the tires are bald, that is a violation of state law. If the Chicago Police Department, through its official maintenance organization, will not make a vehicle safe, perhaps other police organizations that have jurisdiction could be called in from time to time to look at a vehicle and order it off the roads? Perhaps the state police? The Cook County Sheriff won't help you.

2/24/2010 12:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
The airbag in the steering wheel will only deploy from a front end collision. The sensors are in the front bumper. A side airbag deploys on side impacts only. The vehicle the good Sgt. was driving was no doubt as bad as everyone says. Those old Impala's are the worst cars in the fleet. But the crappy condition of the vehicle doesn't seem to be directly related to whether the front airbags deployed. Also, the road conditions must have been horrible for a front wheel drive vehicle to lose control. Front wheel drive vehicles are better in adverse conditions than rear wheel drive vehicles.

2/23/2010 11:08:00 PM

Wrong boy/girl wonder! FWD vehicles only have more weight over front wheels and usually get get better traction on starting, but stopping and losing control a rear drive vehicle is much better! FWD vehicles tend to oversteeer with the weight!

2/24/2010 01:12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

WHY?????????? said...
Immediately impound that squad car in a secure location inaccessible to tampering by the City of Chicago and others.

Get the Streets & San audiotaped transmissions and bring the midnight plow drivers and the Commissioner of Streets and San before a grand jury NOW!

R.I.P. Sgt. Al Haymaker

2/23/2010 10:38:00 PM

HELLO PATRICK FITZGERALD, WE NEED YOU AND FBI HEAD MR.GRANT TO LOOK INTO THIS NOW PLEASE!

2/24/2010 01:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I see the "blame somebody else" society is in full force here.

Even if it is true about the salt..the driver is ultimately responsible for the operation of his vehicle...just drive accordingly.


Fuck off Jody.

2/24/2010 01:14:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Was it off because they fixed the airbag system, or was it off because they disconnected the warning light?

2/23/2010 11:12:00 AM"


take a guess.

2/23/2010 08:59:00 PM
=
I drive an suv with an INTERMITTENT airbag warning light. Sometimes on, sometimes not.

Truck's been in for service at least four times for it. I wonder if it even HAS an airbag sometimes.

2/24/2010 01:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That squad looks like it was in iraq. Look at all the damage and no airbags deployed.

--

CFD used jaws of life to extricate the Sergeant...that's why the door was ripped off.

2/24/2010 01:22:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I believe on the impala there is a computer memory like a black box that can remember the last 5 seconds before a crash. The memory should show the speed, when the brakes were applied, condition of the anti lock brake system seat belt use,

2/23/2010 08:24:00 PM

cHANNEL 32 CRAIG WALL STATED TONIGHT IT WAS A "POOL CAR" WITH NO BLACK BOX! hmm THOUGHT SINCE 1996 ALL CARS HAD THE BLACK BOXES! aNOTHER CITY COVER UP? WHERE IS THAT CAR AT? iS THE CITY COVERING IT UP?

2/24/2010 01:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To 7:47 p.m. We refer to veh.#6305 as a prototype because of the add ons that dont work. This is not about veh#6305 it is about a canabilized pool vehicle with over 121,000 miles on it. I never said nor would I claim to know if it had side airbags. I can say this, the front passenger side air bag deployed the drivers side did not. Also I believe the condition of the tires should be looked at. I never said they were bald but need to be looked at. And thanks for informing me that Area 3 Garage is open 24/7 I really had no idea. When I worked Gangs North, I never even noticed a Garage facility there. I also find it helpful you informing me that I would have to change the tires if I wanted replacements as this can be a very dirty job from what I hear. You sound like your really informed about obscure information. Maybe I can be as informed about this job as you are
when I hit my next 20yrs my friend.

2/24/2010 01:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can tell you I tried to get new tires for my Area 5 unmarked about a month ago at Area 3 garage because the treads were ALMOST gone. I was told by the spanish guys who changes the tires at Area 3 the tires had to be bald before they could be replaced. The tires are still on the car if any union official or reporters want to come look.

2/24/2010 01:26:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The truth is, Daley and the other piece of garbage bosses in this city, especially our fake, arrogant, condesending superintendent, will read these posts and laugh. As long as they keep getting rich it doesn't matter how many of us die. We need to learn to stand together. I love the idea of marching again and having every officer bring a bag of salt! I will also say, if our union doesn't look into this we need to stand together and get rid of them. They SUCK anyway! The only people we have as blue shirts is each other. Stop working!!!! You hard headed 3 year wonders, you aren't getting anyway by busting your ass. You'll end up wrapped around a tree in shitty car with bald tires and no airbag. God, may he RIP. He truly was a hero who served you everyday he put on that uniform. Please watch over him in Heaven. And please God, watch over my brothers and sisters in blue. So that no more of us need to die because of pure greed and ignorance. My condolences to his family. My suggestion HIRE A LAWYER NOW!!! Maybe we all could get a class action suit going? Bad equipment, low man-power and the city fully aware? Where's the safety for the people in publi safety??!

2/24/2010 04:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In response to Tom Mannis,

You missed the whole idea! If the order was to salt the streets and stay off of Lake Shore Drive, it is obvious anyone who, while driving on salted streets would think that Lake Shore Drive would have/should have been salted just as much, if not more!

You just don't see the pennies the city tries to cut. Move back from where you came from. You'll be a good journalist there. Otherwise, you'll fit in with the machine jounalists here. Yeah the blind ones who could tell where their wallets were after speaking to a Chicago politician.

You must ask yourself, why did I vote Democrat? -unless you like to give your money away? Oooohhhhh, I get it, you get a check from the state don't you???

Short bus when you were a kid?

2/24/2010 05:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

TIME TO STAND UNITED OFFICERS.

2/24/2010 06:04:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Everyone is bashing the guy who wrote about "blame everyone else", but he has a point as far as being responsible for our selves. The only problem is this: Say you down your regular car for one problem, it is next to impossible to find a pool that doesn't have some other problem. You COULD spend your entire tour just checking cars.

2/24/2010 07:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Had a car one time 2 bald tires. went to the garage, told the guy I wanted 2 new ones because these were bald. He changed one and then asked; 'you want the other one changed too' I said 'Yes, they are both bald' You wouldn't believe the look I got from this guy when he was done.......But he did it.

Moral of story: if the car isn't safe, take it in. If we don't care, they don't care

2/24/2010 07:31:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

how fast does a car need to be going in order to cause a death in MOST instances - just curious

2/24/2010 07:33:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A co-worker of mine left work early a few hours before this accident. Said the roads were deploreable especially being lake shore drive which is considered to be a major arterial road. There were NO signs of salt then so its probably very safe to say there was none at the time of the accident, which could support the statement about cutting off the salt on lake shore drive at least several hours before the accident.

2/24/2010 07:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

7:57

Already commented on this thread, I entered lake shore drive right at Irving Pk. I was on the drive just 10 or 15 minutes before the tragic accident.

The conditions on the drive were absolutly crap.

There little traffic that was on the drive at the time followed the two center lanes. The far left and far right lanes were sheet ice.

It was the effect of the occasional traffic that favored the two center lanes AND NOT SALT that kept those particular lanes SOMEWHAT driveable. any vehicle that was attempting to transition between these lanes, such as entering or exiting the drive would be in peril.

How can the city expect EMERGANCY VEHICLES and FIRST RESPONDERS to do their jobs as courageously and efficiently as they normally do?

I am a citizen, and EQUALLY outraged by this.

2/24/2010 10:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Even a new car on a road surface that is near ice condition is going to lose traction. If in fact the road wasn't salted and properly plowed, it should have been. If there was a decision to not plow or salt that would have insured safe driving, then LSD should have been closed down. Not closing a hazard roadway like LSD with its turns, hills and blind spots when it is blanketed in snow and ice causes the City to liable for this crash. The City was negligent when it came to insuring the safety of those using the road.

2/24/2010 10:37:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Say you down your regular car for one problem, it is next to impossible to find a pool that doesn't have some other problem. You COULD spend your entire tour just checking cars.

2/24/2010 07:02:00 AM"

I'D CONSIDER THAT A HIGHLY PRODUCTIVE TOUR.

2/24/2010 11:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Judging from the pictures, he very well could have been changing lanes in anticipation of getting off at the next exit. He definitely wasn't trying to get off at the ramp he passed. However, if he was changing lanes on an icy, negligently maintained roadway, he would continue to go in the direction of the lane change. You can't change direction on a patch of ice. And you can't necessarily tell the ice is there until you hit it. Then it's too late.

2/24/2010 11:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You COULD spend your entire tour just checking cars.

2/24/2010 07:02:00 AM"



bingo.

2/24/2010 11:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>Anonymous said...
"Since he's sooo short on salt...next time we march, we bring rock salt and drop it off on the 5th floor in front of his door.

How many pounds do you think we can get up there?

2/23/2010 02:31:00 PM"


don't you mean tons?

2/23/2010 08:43:00 PM<<

Maybe that's what we should be telling Shorty...

..."GO POUND SALT!!"

2/24/2010 12:34:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Went for G and O and told them about the bald front tires about a month ago. They changed 1. Said they could only change one tire, the worst one. WTF. Had to go back a week later and beg to get the other front tire changed. Like pulling fucking teeth. Plus I had to answer 20 questions why the tire should be changed. Uh, dumb ass, it's bald and there are constant snow storms in Chicago.

2/24/2010 01:17:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"how fast does a car need to be going in order to cause a death in MOST instances - just curious

2/24/2010 07:33:00 AM"




don't you mean how fast does your body, seated within a vehicle, have to be moving, in order to cause death upon the occasion of the vehicle's motion being halted suddenly, thus resulting in your body's motion within the vehicle causing your body to impact objects within proximity to same?

2/24/2010 07:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Any word on the tapes?

2/24/2010 10:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe that's what we should be telling Shorty...

..."GO POUND SALT!!"

2/24/2010 12:34:00 PM

No, the Daley crowd is WAY too stupid. You have to pound it for them. If you can't do it, call on your downstate citizens and have the bodyguards withdraw. Downstate would LOVE to pound several tons of salt (or anything else painful) up ANYONE's ass that leads Shitcago.

2/25/2010 12:57:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

TIME TO STAND UNITED OFFICERS.

2/24/2010 06:04:00 AM

Ok Anonymous. You wanna lead, lead. Start with your name

2/25/2010 12:58:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To all of the above posters if the officer walked away from the crash with injuries would they made the accident PREVENTABLE OR NON-PREVENTABLE - It would have been ruled non-preventable. Just because he died does not change the facts.

When a plane goes down and the pilot and passengers are killed the investigators do not rule out pilot error as a cause.

2/23/2010 10:24:00 PM

My God, you're a fucking jag off. Let me guess. Merit promoted asshole boss.

2/25/2010 01:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Due to new EPA rules,we can only use so much salt per program. The City now owns 3 trucks that spray beet juice on Lake Shore Drive.

Alot of suburbs went to beet juice more than 10 years ago.

2/23/2010 02:30:00 AM



and the Good Professor says:

BEET JUICE only melts SNOW not ice.
Calcium chloride(salt for you nubes)produces a chemical reaction when exposed to moisture that creates "heat" that melts the ice. Beet juice the streets all you want when there is no chance of the temps falling below freezing. Beyond that juicing the streets wont melt the ice. Beetjuice will however,preserve plant and wild life.See where Im going with this? Spray the juice on LSD and Daley can have a fucking SALAD when he is driven down it.

Peace all that fight.

2/25/2010 07:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We're considered expendable. They sleep the sleep of innocents because when fear & evil seeks to enter we arrive to secure the breach and deny them entry.

The powers that be are soon to run out of lies to tell.

This orchestrated season of evil, hatred, disrespect and marginalization of the Peacemakers for pure sport and politics is soon to come to an end.

2/23/2010 12:59:00 PM


As I read your contribution,for reasons unknown,I felt PRIDE.
Brother I dont know WHO you are or WHERE you're assigned but Id go thru a door with you ANYTIME. Thre would be NO QUESTION. You,sir or mame ARE the POLICE. Thank you for reviving something in me that I thought was long dead.
You da man!

2/25/2010 07:59:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have an idea.
(dont say a WORD Box Chevy..hahah)


After we have buried the Sgt and we have grieved properly,I say walk past Shitty Hall and leave one bag of salt per person with a tag with the Sgt's name on it. If we can get a few hundred people in on this "protest" then there would be a message sent to that stuttering prick upstairs. Seriously lets do this instead of TALKING about it. i dont hate too many people but God do I hate Daley.FOP PBPA wont do shit you already know this. Just clamor and sword rattle.Bosses wont(excepting a few that actually still have balls and a spine)offer any sort of advice. You TALK of change. You TALK of complaint and you TALK of protesting this joke of a Mayor. Well ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. The time has come. NOT ONE MORE POLICE DEATH due to this jag trying to save a flower or a penny. NOT ONE MORE DEATH due to crap equipment, NOT ONE MORE DEATH because no higher up gives a fuck about anything or any one except themselves or their hefty paycheck, NOT ONE MORE DEATH of one of our own because of something that shouldnt have happened in the first place.(over used and UNSAFE car being allowed to be used for service)
Damn Daley all to hell. If I could Id love to represent the PATROLMAN of CPD.I wouldnt ask for much of a salary,just enough to pay my bills,eat and maybe a little in the bank. Its the PRINCIPLE people. A DEATH occured because of CITY NEGLIGENCE and those that "gave the orders" SHOULD be held culpably liable for that death. Yeah yeah i know too soon for this but is it? is it too soon or (please forgive me) do we have to bury another fine police officer because some JAGOFF wants to look good for Richie? Fuck that. I call that we protest this hardcore. I call that we drop those bags and tags on the front steps of City Hall and I call that we NEVER let this sit and NEVER let this die.

Thank you.
Rest in Peace Alan.
We got this Trust that Brother We got this.

2/25/2010 08:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wrong boy/girl wonder! FWD vehicles only have more weight over front wheels and usually get get better traction on starting, but stopping and losing control a rear drive vehicle is much better! FWD vehicles tend to oversteeer with the weight!

2/24/2010 01:12:00 AM

FWD have always been better in adverse conditions. As an owner of both fwd and rwd vehicles I can tell you rom first-hand experience. I have NEVER had a problem with getting stuck or steering on either side streets main roads or interstates in FWD, however, in a RWD, especially in the snow, it can be a wild ride. The common sense test is just try an get out of an icy parking space...i think you will have your answer.

2/25/2010 08:46:00 AM  
Blogger LATHROP ONE said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous Anonymous said...

TIME TO STAND UNITED OFFICERS.

2/24/2010 06:04:00 AM

Ok Anonymous. You wanna lead, lead. Start with your name

2/25/2010 12:58:00 AM


He or She doesnt have to leave a name......

I WILL LEAVE MINE:

Lathrop One.

If they want to STAND they can STAND WITH me.
If they want to FIGHT they can FIGHT WITH ME.
If they fall during the battle, I WILL CARRY THEM
If they die for the cause,I will REMEMBER THEM.
And if I Fall in this Battle, All I ask is that you NEVER FORGET what I STOOD FOR and pick up where I left off.


(I GOTTA get this prescription changed)

4/01/2010 09:05:00 PM  

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