FLSA Thread
We're going to claim to be in the dark about this entire episode. We still aren't sure how it works, but from what's posted below (from our comment section), it sure sounds like we got burned:
- What members should be up in arms about is the FLSA ruling. What should have been a great benefit for us has turned in to a loss by going to binding arbitration.Regarding the decision handed down by Benn on 09 Dec 2009,no one can give a straight answer on this ruling.The FOP officers are either unsure of what the ruling means, are embarrassed and want to keep it quiet,or sold their soul's to the devil.The timekeepers do not know what it means. In the FOP newsletter they barley touched on it and did not explain it's impact.It says all FLSA hours worked in excess of 171 hours will be paid in cash. FLSA time is the time you are actually at work.Does it mean that if you work 30 hours of overtime in a period and are compensated at time and one half equalling 45 hours you get paid for the 30 and can put the 15 hours towards comp time? Or does it mean the following? Some periods you work 160 hours. So excluding holidays you could only get 11 hours of comp time in that period. In a period where you work 140 hours for example you could get 31 hours of comp time. Any hours exceeding 171 you will be forced to take money. Either way we have lost a great benefit, this was big concern to the city,paying out huge amounts when officers retire. This will lead to no more retiring with thousands of hours. It will also lead to no more selling back bfd and pdays because you will have to use them. As the department continues to downsize they have eliminated a manpower problem by insuring that you will be at work because you will have no accumulated time left to take off. This could lead to medical abuse which could in turn lead to losing our sick leave benefit.
So the question is did FOP after winning every appeal by the city to the FLSA ruling in the courts make a huge mistake by going to and losing binding arbitration and effectively giving up our contractual right to choose money or time. Or did they intentionally sell out the membership for personal gain.It is well known that Mark Donahue is lobbying to become a lobbyist.VP Bill Dougherty's name was on the grievance that went to arbitration. You can read the ruling on the FOP web site. I would like to see SCC do a thread on this. Maybe you did and I missed it. Also the duty trade benefit which was supposed to be unlimited like CFD is limited to 1 day per period and the time constraints to get it accomplished are unworkable.
Can someone summarize the entire event so it makes sense?
Labels: FOP, from the comments
posted by SCC at 12:03 AM
79 Comments:
i was under the impression flsa hours were the amount of overtime hours actually worked, not the total hours earned. i also thought flsa hours were the first hours used when burning time and therefore we have alot less flsa hours on the books then we think. i could be completely wrong.
"Can someone summarize the entire event so it makes sense?"
Ok, here it goes....
In summary: WE ARE FUCKED!
I think that about summs it up.
The only winners on this one are the lawyers at FOP. Ask Thomas Plienes and Dan Herbert how much they billed on this one. It went all the way to the supreme court. A fop board member told me that they pocketed $90,000 a guy. Ain't taht something! And for what. FOP cries bad guy when dealing with the city. Look in the mirorr. What did policemen win outta this one. my watch secretary doesn't know what this ruling even means and he knows his job quite well.
Simple!
Years ago you worked all those hours and got NOTHING, no FSLA, NADA, NOTHING, get it.
Now they will HAVE to at least pay you for it!
Quit bitching and take the MONEY!
In the 80's after Harold Was elected Mayor, our contract was up.
We were offered a wage compression package that would put us at top pay after 25 years.
And what did we do, we voted it down saying it would remove out 30 year step raise. DUH, DUH! DOH!
We would rather work 30 years to get to top pay than 25 years, stupid, stupid, stupid.
Harold was laughing his ass off, he thought he was doing us a good turn, and we demanded to work 5 more years to get to top pay.
We got screwed out of this FSLA pay for years and now we question if we can have it in hours.
TAKE THE MONEY!!!!
I would not want to bankroll too many hours considering the financial status of this city.
Keep a modest reserve, take off as much as you can, enjoy your days off, go do something, and take the rest in MONEY.
It's better to have it in your bank than the city's (time due account).
Old Revolver Cop!
Our FOP rep talked about this at roll call one day and although I don't remember all that was said I don't recall it being said that we would lose the right to choose time or money. I could have misunderstood though. I space out a lot during roll call. Any FOP rep care to clear things up?
umm someone better start talking about this ASAP! EVERYONE should be asking your reps to explin this to you EVERYDAY till we all know this inside and out!
....again it's that FOP coming to bat for the officers. NOT. Just like the FOP did for the Behaviorial program. Not doing a damn thing to help. Let's see... the word TEAMSTERS come to mind. Mmmmmmmmm.
CFD does NOT have unlimited trades. We get 9 every 6 month period. It doesn't make any sense because it doesnt cost the city a dime. Although since they are always scheduling classes at the academy, drills etc, it makes it tough on the manpower people.
I DONT WORK OT. DOES THIS AFFECT ME?
Any way you slice it, we need better representation. When election time rolls around, let's get rid of Donna Hue and his band of misfits.
Psst.... For you guys with a bunch of hours on the books; USE THEM NOW!!!!
Years ago you worked all those hours and got NOTHING, no FSLA, NADA, NOTHING, get it.
Yes. Our worst enemy is not ShortShanks or the FOP, it's the guy/gal in the mirror.
We have developed this greed over time that prevents us from really examining each and every situation we find ourselves in.
As old revolver cop stated, when Washington offered us a compensation package that had us top out at 25 years instead of 30, our greed only saw the city taking away another step raise.
So, boys and girls, we have only ourselves to blame.
I am also in the dark as to the exact meaning of this. I sort of know what it means but not exactly. Our timekeeper couldn't even explain completely what constituted FLSA time.
So far, no complete explanation from FOP. They went to arbitration and are not pleased with the result. A roll of the dice. I would have pushed for arbitration too.
We need a complete explanation from FOP and soon.
Old Revolver Cop hit the nail on the head. Those thousands of hours your daddys ret'd with? Forget it. Over. Coppers all over the country are getting the choice DAILY, give us them hours or your job. Teamster Troll you can forget it too. Your time would be better spent searching for your first boss. Whoever digs his ass up should find millions in his long pockets.
The way it was explained to me is that FLSA hours are premium hours earned after you hit some magical number (200 something I believe)then all hours go into a FLSA "bucket" which is separate from regular comp time hours. Those hours in the FLSA bucket are the first to be used when you take time due. It sounds like that now there will not be any FLSA bucket as those hours will be automatcally be paid out every month in cash.
Those hours were the only hours that under a previous lawsuit "win" could not be denied if you wanted to take timedue. Now they are gone.
ITS the FOP the sold us out.Told everone they are so fucking dump.If you have a metting with Crooked eyes and masters at fop behing closed doors on the 4-2 plan,and left us out.Then you tell fop members we voted on the new plan,someone is dumbasses.Just wait the big one is comeing boys and girls.who said cooter
to the best of my knowledge---feeble it may be. The FLSA "time" is the actual time you are at work. i.e. you sign in and out of court in twenty minutes that's twenty minutes of time and three hours of credited time.
CFD does NOT have unlimited trades. We get 9 every 6 month period. It doesn't make any sense because it doesnt cost the city a dime. Although since they are always scheduling classes at the academy, drills etc, it makes it tough on the manpower people.
CFD works MAYBE 40 days in six months...
WE work about 70 more than that...so we should get the proper multiple of trades
just sayin'... not complainin' I;m CPD that's with ya CFD
THE IGNORANT POST:
Does it mean that if you work 30 hours of overtime in a period and are compensated at time and one half equalling 45 hours you get paid for the 30 and can put the 15 hours towards comp time? Or does it mean the following? Some periods you work 160 hours. So excluding holidays you could only get 11 hours of comp time in that period.
THE TRUTH
NO and NO. Also your conclusion that officers cannot retire with thousands of comp time hours is wrong as well. The only thing "lost" is the FLSA comp time bank, which was ALWAYS limited BY LAW to a max of 480 hours. No one ever had more than 480. The other comp time bank, where you CAN accumulate 1000s of hours, remains intact and unlimited. Get it straight. Keep your bullshit off the internet. People might think it's true.
Here's another truth: Excluding PPO's, only about 120 officers had any FLSA comp time at all in 2009. Most only had a few hours. Now officers get paid when they worked more than 171 hours in a period. So, in conclusion, stupid, the FOP obtained a benefit (duty trades) for around 10,000 officers that never had any FLSA time anyway. Does it still sound like we got screwed? Does it? Moron.
Let's see: around 120 fop members had their FLSA comp time banks paid out at the FLSA rate which is better than time and one-half. For the rare officer that can get it, all further FLSA time will be paid in cash. In return, all of patrol, dick devisions, etc. get duty trades. SCC, why would you claim this is a bad deal? It's one of the greatest coups of all time.
I found this info online, I don't know if it helps or not.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs8.htm
SCC, why would you say we got burned? Nothing could be further from the truth. We wind up with duty trades for district law enforcement and other units and 120 officers got paid out at a super premium FLSA rate.
BTW, FLSA time - which the City always took from you first if you had any and wanted to use comp time -- is paid a a rate slightly higher than time and one-half. Now, we get that better pay rather than using those more valuable hours for time off.
AND, you could only ever get 480 FLSA hours anyway. You can still get thousands of comp time hours in your other bank anyway.
SCC, get with it.
....again it's that FOP coming to bat for the officers. NOT. Just like the FOP did for the Behaviorial program. Not doing a damn thing to help. Let's see... the word TEAMSTERS come to mind. Mmmmmmmmm.
2/04/2010 02:05:00 AM
Can you "Behavioral Program" assholes shut the fuck up already? Why not band together and run a ticket chock full of "BIS" alumni. Fop has "Citywide Team." You guys could be the "Batshit Insane Stampede" or "Bis" for short. Enough, already.
The only winners on this one are the lawyers at FOP. Ask Thomas Plienes and Dan Herbert how much they billed on this one. It went all the way to the supreme court. A fop board member told me that they pocketed $90,000 a guy.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Not true. The lawyers were Paul Geiger and Mary Ann Pohl. Paul's at FOP, Mary Ann is not. The case did NOT go to the supreme court.
W H A T ? ?
First you have to be denied and second you have to find someone in your district to trade withe you in that period.So if you need a weekend day off you will most likely have to find another officer willing to work a weekend day in return for a week day. Good luck
You are correct FSLA time is used first about five months ago the city paid out all the FSLA time accrued in the city, only about 400 coppers got paid. I have over 2000 hours and seldom burn time and my check was "0". I reality this was a non issue to the average cop.
This is a federal labor law issue. The FOP contract was in violation of the federal labor law by allowing us to grow our comp. time in excess of the federal labor standard of 171hrs per 28 day work cycle. The arbitrator had to rule according to the FEDERAL LABOR LAW in effect. The city was made aware of this violation on Aug 23, 2009 and paid out the 160 officers on the dept. that had FLSA time on the books. This is not a FOP or arbitrator or even a city issue, it is FEDERAL LABOR LAW!!! Considering the limited amount of officers who actually had FLSA time on the books (160) I consider this an inmaterial issue. No contract, (collective bargaining agreement) in the country can supercede federal law, hence the decision.
Overtime compensation are employee benefits just like health benefits, pensions, etc.. Federal law protects employee benefits. However, the courts are not concerned with how these benefits are paid out.
The courts only said that once FLSA comp time was accumulated, it could not be arbitrarily denied, so the city paid that OT in the form of cash.
Our contract dictates that we can choose to be compensated for overtime in the form of comp time or money. That contract dispute, like all contract disputes, had to be handled in arbitration.
The arbitrator ruled for the city that FLSA time could be paid in cash rather than comp time.
These are the chances we take when we take on a fight. The initial fight was to use federal law to prevent the city from denying comp time. The city avoided the federal law by paying out that benefit in cash.
Just because we lost this fight does not mean that the fight wasn't worth fighting.
The FOP lawyers still should have seen this comming.
you can only get 11 hours on the books if you work your regular hours,with the exception of holidays you can work 40 hours of OT and request all of it in time but the timekeepers are mandated to only give you the amount allotted to reach your total which is something like 175 hours or something close to those hours. This started back in the 9th period which is what we were told hence numerous officers received LARGE checks at the end of last year to bring there hours down for those months from 9th period down to the end of the year. I know officers who received checks in excess of $12,000.00, yes I SAW the checks so this really isn't anything new, it's just coming to light for alot of officers. Someone who received a check should inquire with FOP if they have any questions. Just an FYI our unit was informed of this last September.
WOW, how the worm turns. When this issue was first brought up and posted on SCC, most of the comments were against the 160 guys that were initially involved. Most post told them to shut up about being paid out for their FLSA hours. U can no longer carry any FLSA time and ALL hours over 171 are paid out in OT. So you are going to be very limited in the amount of hours you can bank. Gone are the days of stock piling hours even if you only used them to get a longer vacation and never really carried them for to long. If you work 171 hours then go to court for 8 hours and are paid for 12 the entire 12 hours turns into cash. You can not split the hours into pay and time.
you can accululate 11 hrs per period of FLSA time. FLSA time is the real time whereas the overtime you can keep on the books above that time is the time and one half or even the 3 hrs of court when you're there for 30min.
example: you go to court and you're there 30min. The 30min is what counts against your FLSA time, NOT the other 2.5 hrs. You can bank the 2.5 hrs without penalty because its not considered FLSA time. If you already accumulated the 11 hours in the period of FLSA time then you're paid for the 30min and you bank the 2.5hrs as NON FLSA time.
At least thats how its been explained to me.
I don't understand the problem. It seems pretty clear to me:
"The relevant portion of Section 20.2 of the Agreement will be
amended to read: The officer shall have the option of electing pay or compensatory time for approved overtime hours at the rate of time and one half. Earned overtime in excess of 171 hours per 28 day pay cycle will be paid."
Everything else talks about exchanging days.
still no word on contract--- since this is a union thread i will put this out there and probably get lambasted for doing so but if the city is so broke and can't pay retro why not take what is owed to you as time on the books--- whatever arbitrator benn awards can be converted to c/u time--- you can take the time off when you need it or sit on the hours and cash them in when you retire... we get a nice raise and the city can deal with it because they don't get whacked with a huge lump sum cash disbursement for the retro payout.... i know, i know, it's our money and the city has been making interest off of it for 3 years-- true-- but we make a concession and use it to our advantage in the media to gain some favorable press.... just a thought.... GO BLACKHAWKS....
streets & san payroll puts all comp time in a group called NON-FLSA. ?
other departments use FLSA......
our union agreement, "the amended one" says anything over 240 hours shall be payed in cash.
most of my coworkers would love to see it dropped to 170 and take the cash.
i just hope the city isn't fucking us by using this NON-FLSA group in payroll system.
something tells me they are........ HMMMM
Every period you work 160hrs. FLSA time is any hours worked over 171. Meaning you can work 11 actual overtime hours before FLSA hours are automatically paid out. Holiday comp time option is not affected.
The ruling stated that we could not be denied CU on accumulated FLSA time so the city got around that by paying out everyones accumulated FLSA time late last year and automatically paying out FLSA time instead of letting it accrue. Technically we won but the city still put it in our a$$ by not allowing us to save our time and use it as we please.
On a happy note as I mentioned earlier FLSA time is actual hours so if your in TRFC Ct for 15 min only 15 min counts against the 171 hrs not the 3hrs we get paid. Additionally if you take time that is subtracted from your 160hrs worked per period.
This is how it was explained to me and that's the assumption I have been working under since the beginning of 1st period
Recently the district gave me a paper with how many hours I have, P days, BFDs, etc...Over 200 hours on the books but no FLSA hours, because when you burn time, they burn your FLSA hours first. This won't affect many people at all.
the word TEAMSTERS come to mind. 2/04/2010 02:05:00 AM
enough with the teamster talk already, if you want be a teamster go be a truck driver. I was a teamster 714 when I worked at the sheriffs dept and they suck. why in the world would you want to turn our membership over to people who have mob affilations. We just need to elect competent officers who are passionate about what's right and are not afraid to burn bridges or ruffle feathers like mike shields has done at the pension board
Go look at your pay stubs from last year. You might see FLSA notations with OT pay. Because of our working 6 & 2, 5 & 3, some times you would work more than 171 hours in a pay period AS PART OF YOUR REGULAR PAY. That's the FLSA part.
Extended tours, court, etc is overtime that you can either take pay or accumulate hours.
Who cares, who the hell is getting that much ot anyways? Get a life instead.....
If you work the 4-2 you are fucked. With that schedule you work 171 hours a period and therefore unless its a holiday your ot will have to be paid out because any amount over 171 hours has to be paid.
If you burn time in any period you are able to make that back up because you are less than that 171 so you can acrue CU, but only up to 171 "working hours" Meaning if you go to court and are there 45 min you still can put the 3 hours on the books. The clause is that the 45min is only counted towards you FLSA cap. So Lets say you worked 161 hours that period. You now go to court for that 45min and get you 3 hrs. That 3hours goes on the books at CU and only that 45min counts on your time worked. so now you have worked 161.75 hours. So next court date you atre there 2 hours. Well you still get the 3 to put on the books and now you have 163.75 worked hours. So you can build up comp time a little. Holidays you still the the flat hours and they don't go against anything.
The propble is this 4-2 schedule has you pegged at 171hours. SWE GOT FUCKED PERIOD. A ton of suburban departments have put caps on CU. The have gone to arb and the arb has not ruled in their favor. One reason being because if they let you accumulate hours and then you takle off in a suburban dept they usually pay someine time and half to cover your shift. So more and more the cap is gettin lower for them on contracts.
Again we got FUCKED PERIOD! We can now no longer acrue nice chuncks of CU to burn when we want.
The FLOPS argument is that before when you acrued the FLSA time on teh books for CU it was always the first to be burned when you took CU. They argue that thus you were never compensated for the 1.32 more an hour and were in a sense getting screwed out of that. This argument is absolutely FUCKING BULLSHIT! My time off is worth more than that 1.32 extra an hour. Andnow with this 4-2 we are going to need to burn even more time and have less of a window to build it up. TELL ME THIS CRAP WASN"T PLANNED OUT! IT another way to increase the manpower on the street by not having guys take off as much. The FOP IS FULL OF SHIT ON THIS AND THIS RULING HAS NOT HELPED US OUT WHAtSOEVER ON THIS! IT IS A SCAm AND A SMOKE & MIRROR PLOT. Feel sorry for those coming on who are going to have one hell of a time acruing hours to take. AGAIN NOJ MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT THE FOP SOLD US OUT AND WE GOT TAKEN
TO the guy that says shut up and take the check...............................YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE NO LIFE OUTSIDE THIS JOB! MY TIME IS WAY MORE VALUABLE THEN MONEY TO MY FAMILY AND ME.
"Simple!
Years ago you worked all those hours and got NOTHING, no FSLA, NADA, NOTHING, get it.
Now they will HAVE to at least pay you for it!
Quit bitching and take the MONEY!"
--------------------
Another FLOP hack heard from.
So your suggestion is never mind we had and lost a great benefit, just take it (and the $$$) up the ass and be happy because back in the day we had nothing.
Yeah, I get it -- you're grateful to support the management team of a fraternal organization so concerned about its own post-FLOP future that it lost sight of what was in the best interest of its membership. FLOP took a calculated risk going to binding arbitration and expected to lose this one.
Time to have a FLOP douche bag tea party and dump these bloated FLOP humps overboard.
I feel for you guys in Chicago. Times have been rough fo you all.
I can't explain the terms of the new measures, but I will elaborate on this subject of cutting back on Comp Time being able to be put on the books.
I am on a suburban FOP negotioations team and these last two contracts have seen City's, County's and Villages more and more wanting lower caps on earning time that's able to be put on the books and banked. Fop's, Pba's and other unions have went to arb regarding this fact in several different cases and every arb decision has been "for the city's, villages." Your FOP obviously did not do any research on this and left you all high and dry. Seems to me your FOP was well mis informed and as a result cause you all to be dealt a huge blow for a small percentage. On avg only 15-20% of offices ever earned FLSA in the past. Now with your new schedule system, new rules, and mis information from the FOP your amount of comp time that can be banked has been reduced roughly 75%. It's a dam travesty for nothing in return.
You guys will never get it back now and that is what is really unfortunate. They either sold their soul or were so bilnd and retarted it should be a major issue at the next meeting.
I feel for you brothers.
A Suburban Guy
Quit bitching and take the MONEY!
Old Revolver Cop!---------------------------
I really hope you are a supervisor with comments like this. This is not bitching. It is questioning the giving up of a hard won contractual right. To choose time or money. If in fact that is what is going on. No one seems to know because no one has a straight answer it is all legend and lore as usuall.
I think the spirit of the suit was if you have any time on the books. FLSA or other. If you ask to use it in a reasonable amount of time you get the time off. I was disappointed by this decision but that is what happens when you go to arbietration. Win or lose it is on paper. Roll of the dice
I want the city to give me back all my flsa time that they took away illegally. They took flsa time instead of comp time without asking, in violation of federal law. The union should be demanding an accounting of all the flsa time that was taken from each officer without their permission. This would be an accounting nightmare and would probably force the city to negotiate some sort of deal. Milwaukee worked out a deal with their city, so we should too.
We were told by the time keepers in our unit that u can only accrue 11 hrs of comp time per period not including your holiday's the rest will be paid cash. The funny thing is that noone one can explain why not even the time keepers themselves know wtf is going on, in essence its sounds like the city got one up on us. Its shitty for those who like to accrue their comp time for various reasons imagine those who don't have time on the books or those who's comp times are limited I know several Ofc's who are negative on the books and end up owing the city.
In short, FLSA time is time ACTUALLY WORKED over 171 hours. It does NOT mean Comp time. If you go to court, stay in court 30 minutes and leave then 30 minutes is FLSA, the rest is Comp Time or contractual time, which you can still take as time or money.
Of the 11500 or so PO's there are only around 60 sworn with ANY FLSA time on the books. You can go to FOP Hall and ask to see the list.
The vast majority of PO's will not be effected one bit by this.
Where's Seiser when you nee him?
If he can't explain it, it's not possible to explain.
PBPA says:
Since officers will not have as many FLSA hours on the books; the city will not "be in so much debt" . . . This in turn will help the city's BOND RATING.
Also; the "4 and 2" schedule is more beneficial to the city in this respect.
Basically, the days of piling up a ton of hours on the books are over.
Just take the overtime money now.
In the end the city doesn't have to pay out a a large sum of money (ie; Sgt. D.K. who works O'Hare with 15,000+ hours on the books.)
The disadvantage of having so many hours on the books to sell when you retire is you GET KILLED with taxes.
. . . What I'm saying is STOP being cry baby coppers.
This is not about choosing time or money. It's about being able to use the time we accumulate.
From the order that came out it seems that we can only use one comp day per month? is this right?
What we should have won at arbitration is the ability to use comp time whenever we request it in a timely fashion. I KNOW we did not get that.
Who won? the lawyers did.
The city doesn't want to give us a new contract (strike one)
The city doesn't want us to use comp time when it suits us (strike two)
The city doesn't want to pay us overtime (strike three)
The city doesn't want to hire more police officers (strike four)
The city doesn't want to promote hard working, deserving officers (strike five -- waddup did u think this was baseball)
If this was baseball they would be out. but it's not baseball. it's not a game, but after so many strikes what can you do? and there are probably more strikes that we can think of.
SO you decide how hard you will work for such an employer. And BTW, "the city" refers to the occupant of city hall 5th floor and his ratt party.
The only winners on this one are the lawyers at FOP. Ask Thomas Plienes and Dan Herbert how much they billed on this one. It went all the way to the supreme court. A fop board member told me that they pocketed $90,000 a guy.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
What a crock of shit. Pleines and Herbert? You must be kidding. They had nothing to do with anything. AND, FOP did not pay one red cent for the case. Not a dime. Book it, dummy!
There were officers who "worked" their RDOs and racked up more than $20,000 in a year.
Any hours earned past 171 hours in any one period were paid in cash.
....again it's that FOP coming to bat for the officers. NOT. Just like the FOP did for the Behaviorial program. Not doing a damn thing to help. Let's see... the word TEAMSTERS come to mind. Mmmmmmmmm.
2/04/2010 02:05:00 AM
dont be stupid enough to believe the teamsters would help us if the fop cant...
ALL UNIONS SUCK THEY ARE ALL IN IT FOR THE MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!
they dont give a shit about the people they represent the whole point of their job is to keep that job not represent the people they are supposed.
This means that you can now accumulate no more than 16.5 hours (11 hours at time and a half) of compensatory time on the books per period. However, this does not include holiday hours. Any overtime worked beyond 171 hours in a period will be paid out automatically.
Example:
If an officer takes 2 days (16 hours) off during a given period, they will end up working a total of 144 hours for that period. If during that same period that officer accumulates 60 hours of overtime, then that officer may take 27 hours as comp time (bringing him up to a total of 171 hours) and the remaining 33 hours will automatically be paid to him at the higher rate.
I have verified this through my timekeeper and the FOP. It will significantly cut down on the amount of time that an officer may carry on the books. We got royally screwed on this and still not everybody realizes it.
This would not be the first time FOP sold us out. When the Sworn Affidavit bill was passed and we won, FOP negotiated with the city because the city threatened to sue.
Even after the bill was law, the city and the FOP dragged their feet in pushing it.
Every city that has ever established a civilian revue apparatus has seen its liability expenses skyrocket. We all know that police misconduct payouts in this city are a form of patronage graft.
They probably have expended a huge pile of money fighting this FLSA lawsuit and now realize that it was such a small issue that it was not worth the expense and are trying to cover their asses.
we were fully briefed in our unit, no need to be FOP haters
The way the city is doing financially, do not bank hundreds or even thousands of hours and expect the city to pay it off!
When you do that, you are a CREDITOR to the city. Just like any other creditor, if the city can't pay it's bills, then you are out of luck. So don't make that stupid mistake.
KG the 023 Rep is the biggest two faced lier around. He will piss on you and tell you it's raining! Acts like he's anti-company and FOP and then you see him later laughing and having dinner with them. Guess why he has had a ghost foot post his entire carreer in 023 never done a thing but boot lick!
What a crock of shit. Pleines and Herbert? You must be kidding. They had nothing to do with anything. AND, FOP did not pay one red cent for the case. Not a dime. Book it, dummy!
2/04/2010 09:14:00 PM
How much money did the lawyers make on this?? My guy at fop said the lawyers made out like bandits, while cops just get the shit end of the stick.
This is a federal labor law issue. The FOP contract was in violation of the federal labor law by allowing us to grow our comp. time in excess of the federal labor standard of 171hrs per 28 day work cycle. The arbitrator had to rule according to the FEDERAL LABOR LAW in effect. The city was made aware of this violation on Aug 23, 2009 and paid out the 160 officers on the dept. that had FLSA time on the books. This is not a FOP or arbitrator or even a city issue, it is FEDERAL LABOR LAW!!! Considering the limited amount of officers who actually had FLSA time on the books (160) I consider this an inmaterial issue. No contract, (collective bargaining agreement) in the country can supercede federal law, hence the decision.
PAUL GIEGER STAY OFF THE BLOG!! I'VE READ 9 OF YOUR POSTS ALREADY.
No contract, (collective bargaining agreement) in the country can supercede federal law, hence the decision.
_________________________________________________________________________________
You forgot that the rules and regulations of the Constitution and bill of rights as well as those of the labor laws don't apply here in the Land of Daley.
You sir are an asshat to the fullest.
Its funny how all those years past they never wanted us to take money. In fact many supervisors off the record ordered us to take time. Those are the same supervisors that either jumped on our overtime without being there or just threw in slips without working overtime.
Interesting that this is happening now, because it became quite obvious to city hall finance when Weis threw all the old supervisors out at once. They were the ones with the big checks to cash.
Think about Cline who left with over 12,000 hours on the books. Whats that, 5-6 years x $165,000 a year. More money than I'll ever see between my retirement date and death. Jag off.
In October of 09 Oemc went through a similar play with the nonflsa and flsa time. Removing our cash option.. A few years back we lost the right to accumulate hours and were to be cashed out every Oct to a base of 40 which then got raised to 80 hours on the books and that was negiotiated on the last " contract" which was sold down the river by an ammendent that SEIU 72 put into play and so it is said IBEW21 knew nothing about.
FlSA time is when you work and get ot, i.e. I worked on Thanksgiving got paid ot,,,comp or cash.
NONFLSA time is when your rdo is Thanksgiving and you get 8 hours on the books.
Good luck boys and girls, we have beedn fighting this battle of money play for years to no avail. Personally I think they're messing with the Federal Labor STandards Act and no one is calling the city out on it. First responders are allowed to carry 240/480 hours on the books depending on your schedule.
And the winner is:
The way it was explained to me is that FLSA hours are premium hours earned after you hit some magical number (200 something I believe)then all hours go into a FLSA "bucket" which is separate from regular comp time hours. Those hours in the FLSA bucket are the first to be used when you take time due. It sounds like that now there will not be any FLSA bucket as those hours will be automatcally be paid out every month in cash.
Those hours were the only hours that under a previous lawsuit "win" could not be denied if you wanted to take timedue. Now they are gone.
2/04/2010 06:31:00 AM
except it's 171 hours...
Anonymous said...
CFD does NOT have unlimited trades. We get 9 every 6 month period. It doesn't make any sense because it doesnt cost the city a dime. Although since they are always scheduling classes at the academy, drills etc, it makes it tough on the manpower people.
CFD works MAYBE 40 days in six months...
WE work about 70 more than that...so we should get the proper multiple of trades
just sayin'... not complainin' I;m CPD that's with ya CFD
2/04/2010 07:59:00 AM
-----------
OK, say they give you 100 trades a year. YOu have to put the slip in 10 days ahead of time. Most of the time people are denied it's because they ask at the last minute. Has anybody even used this yet?
Take the money fuck the comp time. You can accrue a hundred hours every years just by taking the comp time option.
The little secret about FLSA time is that it cannot be denied. So if an officer had FLSA time, and asked for time due, under federal law, the city couldn't say no. Now any FLSA time can't be banked, so any time due can be denied. We did get fucked. You see?
To this asswipe that wrote this.Can you "Behavioral Program" assholes shut the fuck up already? Why not band together and run a ticket chock full of "BIS" alumni. Fop has "Citywide Team." You guys could be the "Batshit Insane Stampede" or "Bis" for short. Enough, already.NO its not over with,you where never on this .So go fuck yourself
To this asswipe that wrote this.Can you "Behavioral Program" assholes shut the fuck up already? Why not band together and run a ticket chock full of "BIS" alumni. Fop has "Citywide Team." You guys could be the "Batshit Insane Stampede" or "Bis" for short. Enough, already.NO its not over with,you where never on this .So go fuck yourself
2/05/2010 07:36:00 AM
Whoa, angry person. Sounds like you need some counseling. Call EAP before you get put in BIS again.
Cry babies. The only ones this is going to hurt is those who can't make it to work after a hard night of drinking. You know them they have negative 40 hours on the books and want the day after Thanksgiving off. It will probably effect those Sgt and Lt's. and Capt's with 6,000 hours too, because the city will settle up now at today's rate instead of the pay rate 5 or 10 years from now. As for looking into it fellows well it's to late now. The FOP always had updates. Maybe you need to show up at meetings.
KG the 023 Rep is the biggest two faced lier around. He will piss on you and tell you it's raining!
#############################
He would know about being pissed on by his fop brethren. lol.
I remember back in 2000 when FOP and Donahue promised us if we got Lisa Madigan and Blogo elected they would guarantee us 80% pensions! Any day now.......There are suckers born every minute! P T Barnum! (That is back when MD forgave the 20M owed to the pension I believe)
I have verified this through my timekeeper and the FOP. It will significantly cut down on the amount of time that an officer may carry on the books. We got royally screwed on this and still not everybody realizes it.
2/04/2010 10:18:00 PM
Wrong-o Cowboy. Try again. If what you say is true, why did only 1% of the police actually have any flsa time? Where do you work? The Unlimited Overtime Unit?
When you don't know what the hell it even means, that should be your first clue to just let it go.
FLSA stands for Fair Labor Standards Act.
The first word in that is FAIR.
This is CHICAGO.
When did anyone ever consider Fair and Chicago to go together, regarding labor relations that is.
There is now and there never has been anything fair about labor relations in the City of Chicago. Michael Shakman will be in his grave and some scum 11th ward politician related to the daley crime family will still be scheming to put "his people" on the payroll.
I'm 60 years old, it never has been fair here and never will be. You can be frustrated and angry and bitter or you can use your head and find ways to even out the playing field for yourself.
Whichever you enjoy more.
Go to a P/O that is a timekeeper they can explain it to you or show it to you on your card. Most of the civilian t/k's don't have a clue
As a former finacial planner, I can tell you that banking hours for retirement is hands down the dumbest way you can save for retirement for the following reasons
- Our pay increases at 3% or less per year according to the last couple of contracts I looked at, that rate can be beaten over time in virtually any low risk investment.
- TAX SUICIDE - when you retire with thousands of hours comp time you have to take the big check all at once - that means top tax bracket - How would you like your 500k to be turned into 350k on the day you retire(approximately 75k more in taxes than if you took the pay when you were at a lower tax bracket while working and invested it). SGT DK's gonna have a coronary when he see's his tax bill.
-Lastly, why would you want to put your money in a "bank" that is headed towards insolvency? Either Daley was absent that day in kindergarten when they told the story of the golden goose, or he is corrupt and has some sort of hidden ownership in LAZ parking -which do you think it is? Either way, with that kind of financial mismanagement, the $ will probably not be there in the future.
Lastly I have a close friend who works for the Water dept, he gets ZERO overtime now that the city is broke, and his 24 unpaid furlough days out of 262 working days are lowering his take home almost 20%. We, on the otherhand, are about to get retro checks (however small) and a raise when I was seriously expecting some sort of pay cut. If you actually USE your cu time for "family" then you probably don't accumulate enough of it on the books to matter anyways. This FLSA ruling affects 1% of us and you're complaining? GROW UP, You sound like every other crusty old timer who never had a real job before this one, you probably dog your way out of work whenever you can and don't know what color paper they print honorables on. The rest of you need to use your brain if you have one, and be thankful you still have a job and haven't defaulted on your mortgage yet. Despite all the parts of this job that occasionally suck, it beats working for a living any day.
Post a Comment
<< Home