Cell Scanners
If there was ever an argument for digital radios, this is it:
- on another unrelated note. scc, you need to do a post on this for all of us in blue,the new sprint phone evo49, has the police scanner on it. my wife, gave me her phone and all the zones came over the phone as clear as our radio.and its free it shows how many people in the area are listening, and it gives all zones, officer alert, the drug boys can be there on the phone in front of you and not have the scanner.the things these phone companys do to make a buck.he can stand next to you and hear every word as clear as day.this is another dangerous. tool against us.
It's not so bad if the bad guys are listening to domestic after domestic after "junior won't eat his vegetables" calls, but the dope calls and gang stuff enables the offenders to counter officer responses and we are all aware of the surprises that could be sprung on responding officers for gun, robbery or any other violence associated calls. Some of the specialized units have digital encrypted radios for long term investigations or dynamic situations (HBT). It's probably time to start looking into wider use of these with the Special Employment in the tunnels and compatibility issues with the Fire Department.
Labels: safety issues
posted by SCC at 12:04 AM
73 Comments:
The application does not have ALL zones, just certain ones.
You can get this for your Iphone too but it just scans the zones, I don't believe you're able to zero in on one particular zone.
The IPHONE has had this for the past 3 years, and you're just not bringing this up?
Old news, Iphones have had a app that does the same thing for years now.
It's called the Evo4G.
Anytime you're transmitting a radio signal, someone, somewhere can and will hear it.
You can add all the high-speed digital, scrambling, Nextel, TDMA, FDMA, ad nauseum, crap you want to, but in the end you're still BROADCASTING.
We've complained for years and years about finding scanners in the possession of the scumbags we arrest, but there's one thing everybody's forgetting: WE'RE STILL ARRESTING THEM. Our radio is just too damn boring to listen to day and day out. Hell, half the cops on-duty aren't listening half the time.
Our Zones are available on cellphones. So what. Anybody who's really serious about listening to us will buy the latest whiz-bang product and still be able to listen.
If we're that worried about it, maybe we should practice better COMSEC procedures.
You can get police scanners on the computer as well as many other phones before this new EVO phone.
I had a scanner on my iPhone as well as my blackberry. This is nothing new.
This is not new. There are many internet sites that stream live police radio communications. Anyone with an internet capable phone can listen to our radios. You can even listen on an I-pod, if it is connected to a wi-fi network.
Just talked to a radio geek about this tonight. He said it would be the worst thing to happen to us.
The encrypted systems are so closed, that no one can monitor neighboring systems. This is why we can't hear what the County is doing, even if they're on a traffic stop right in front of us.
Since we know downtown monitors this site, let's not just jump on this bandwagon without knowing all the ramifications of such a decision.
Oh, what am I thinking? The encrypted systems are so expensive, the city would never make the purchase, anyway.
The Evo doesn't have a police scanner in it. It has an Internet browser that lets the user go to http://www.chicagoscanner.com/ which lets you listen to CPD radio on your home computer, your iPad, or pretty much anything web-enabled.
But what's the big deal? - the bad guys have been able to go to Radio Shack for years and buy scanners and listen in on CPD radios. Yes, CPD should buy all new encrypted systems, but there's no money for that. You have something confidential to say, use a private cell phone.
They have apps for iphones too. The one I have is free, called 5-0 radio.
More than just the Sprint phone have this. The I phone and Droid also have these app's. Be careful.
You don't know the half of what's out there either. There is so much electronic equipment out here in the streets with capabilities far beyond the norm,that it just goes to show with money being made in the dope game, some of that money is spent on keeping the game alive. For instance, we confiscated a special piece of equipment, much like a handheld CB radio that actually intercepted phone calls. Just punch in a number and presto, your phone is instantly tapped. Illegal but extremely potent. There is more stuff out there, but that is all I'm talking about. Remember, even with SCC, the police aren't always on this site, there are gang members looking into this site everyday too.
SCC, as bad as this is, PLEASE let everyone know about the app that is called Police Recorder. It records everything and while it does, it shows your wallpaper on the screen so it appears nothing is happening. Please do not let people record you this way!
Digital radios are junk. They FAILED MISERABLY during 9/11. JUNK JUNK JUNK.Don't drink the kool aid.
-Old Ham Radio Guy
They've had those things on cell phones for years. I had one on an iPhone a few years back that could listen to various public safety agencies, including CPD. Honestly, it's significantly delayed (it's going through several avenues through the internet and cell phone companies) to the point where I never felt there was a significant risk of it being used for malicious intent.
Of course, it'd be nice if this loophole was closed, but I can think of a million other things that pose a bigger risk than this.
A long time ago my partner and I were in SAT and told to report to the ANET for support.
We were fired up.
They told us we would get a "stick" and i thought we were getting an MP5.
I have learned a lot about this department seince then.
:(
iphone has had that for awhile. and yes u can get any particular zone on it.
Honestly, I think we should be more concerned on what we say when those damn in-car mics are on.
Anonymous said...
Digital radios are junk. They FAILED MISERABLY during 9/11. JUNK JUNK JUNK.Don't drink the kool aid.
-Old Ham Radio Guy
6/10/2010 03:52:00 AM
Mmmmmm, ham.........
- Homer Simpson
Digital scanners are $500 a pop and most shitheads are not radio geek enough to program the TGIDs
(talk group IDs) and the other tech stuff needed. These new systems sometimes fail big time, just ask Milwaukee how bad it sucks when multi-million dollar systems fail. Ask a rural area ISP trooper how bad Starcom 21 sucks ! Do you really want to go there ? Like it or not Digital is coming, encryption costs too much for all but a few limited tact channels.
All that fancy radio suff costs money and frankly, you lives aren't worth it.
Mayor Daley
I beleive that they are testing a new phone system right now. I do know for a fact that they have been testing a phone for a while that Motorola helped devise SPECIFICALLY for the city of Chicago. They had it tested from all parts of the city and in numerous building to make sure that the signal can be picked up from everywhere. They also found out that about 8 new transmitting towers will need to be set up around the city. The radios should be out by the end of the year. They will be digital and the analog scanners will not pick it up.
Why should I race to a call with this hanging over my head. Thats why I completely shut down. They got the city/police they wanted. Let them deal with it. If its not a cop calling for help.....
Nothing to worry about. Scanners have been around since the 70's. As technology changes, so do the scanner manufacturers. Encryption will defeat any scanner out there for now, but you loose more than you gain. Most citizens aren't out there to commit crimes when monitoring, just a select few. Digital is the way to go, at $500 for the average digital scanner, one must be an avid listener to go this route.
You don't know the half of what's out there either. ...
For instance, we confiscated a special piece of equipment, much like a handheld CB radio that actually intercepted phone calls. Just punch in a number and presto, your phone is instantly tapped. Illegal but extremely potent.
6/10/2010 02:12:00 AM
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BS. Also, who is "we" (bolded above)?
"Punch in a number & your phone is instantly tapped"...you gotta be kidding me if you expect people to believe this. That tactic might work for the general public, but not on a radio geek.
Also, LEOs, don't forget there are civilians who own scanners and are the very opposite of those with malicious intent. Remember those tornadoes from last week...you better believe I had my scanner going! Police traffic does not comprise all the traffic that those of us with scanners who aren't bad people listen to.
The poster is mis-informed. First, the cellphone doesn't pick up all our zones. It has a web browser that went to a site that has multiple radio scanners feeding audio. Only some of the CPD channels are being monitored. In fact, many police and fire departments can be monitored. I have this on my BBerry and have had it on a PC at the desk listening to LAPD every so often.
Second, digital won't help, as there are several digital capable scanners available and these can feed the website as well. The digital protocol is known as APCO-25 and is open source so that different manufacturers and systems can be compatible with each other. Motorola has the City in their pocket, so we'll be getting digital radios soon anyway. A couple of districts just got through field testing them. BTW, CFD has been using digital-capable radios for awhile now, after a very costly upgrade because some fireman used the N-word over the air.
The solution: encryption - which is costly and impractical; use your PDT for all communications as the digital protocol is not open; Nextel, like the feds do; or just be careful.
Frankly, regardless of what radio we have, the last point should always be foremost in everyone's minds.
Free Bill Cozzi.
There's an application on the verizon smartphones as well. I downloaded it and was listening to it. I was listening to 7th & 8th district. It also allows you to search - which includes CFD, County, State & some suburban departments.
I deleted it after I checked it out. I hear enough of that in my 8 hour day.
The iPhone app has several zones/districts on one of the channels. They aren't exact and calls are scattered between them, same as citywide. Seems to be a 1-3 second delay. Anyway, one of the reasons for the switch to "digital tv" was to free up air space for new 1st Responder digital signals. CFD is having new antenna towers built. Took the US FCC years to change over. However if &when Chgo gets on board w/21st century techology, expect another major revamp of OEMC, new
consoles,radios & parts, (gotta have parts), new Director, new surcharge on phone bill. ~ Insider Communication Consultants,LLC.
as soon as scanners came out the bangers and dealers had em
nothing new here
Why is it that you guys are paranoid about anyone listening to your radio transmissions? The shitheads aren't smart enough to use scanners. The company of scanner hobbyists are the most ardent LEO supporters out there. And, you have no idea what you are asking for with digital radios. Good news is that a fully digital radio system will give you guys something to bitch about for years to come. They are costly and perform marginally. Ask a state trooper.
All you need is an internet connection and you can listen to just about any frequency in any state.
Do you guys think anyone downtown gives a fuck? They all communicate by blackberry, and show up after the scene is secured.
All jobs should be dispatched via PDT, with the radio used for emergency traffic...if we had PDT's that worked...in all cars.
I was just able to download the app onto my blackberry.
There is another application that tracks all the CPD cars via GPS, so not only the bosses, but the bad guys know exactly where you are at.
a new order will be coming out. everyone working the street has to learn pig latin to throw the bad guys off.
so get ready to do so, elearning all.
The bangers are not going to want to listen to all the crap going on in 2 districts just to hear when some neighbor drops a call on them. The fact that the public can hear everything that the CPD has to deal with is a good thing.
It's been around a while and there have been multiple information reports done about it. The one that comes to mind most was the gangbanger who was caught hanging out at Homan with a camcorder set up in the back of his car filming the undercovers and their covert vehicles so he would know what and who to look for in the neighborhood. Then came right out and told the cops who stopped him about the application on his iphone with the zone he lived in programmed in.
Minnesota has a network that covers the state. Most jurisdictions have connected up with it. It is digital, has encryption, and allows anyone on it to contact anyone else on it one-to-one. Cooperating jurisdictions can allow access to each other. The relay stations have independent power and are away from places likely to have problems, so the 9/11 factor is minimized (don't forget that the New York emergency center was in the World Trade Center complex at the demand of the mayor).
The cops I've talked to about it like it, and it wasn't all that expensive for a major government project. However, it was done in Minnesota and didn't have any Chicago contract overhead (that is, da mayo).
There is a difference between digital and encrypted.
I can easily listen to any CPD or CFD digital radio, but to listen in on the Cook County radios, I have to breakout the expensive stuff.
You can use your cellphones, but they aren't encrypted either, and are fairly easy to listen in on.
Anonymous said...
The bangers are not going to want to listen to all the crap going on in 2 districts just to hear when some neighbor drops a call on them. The fact that the public can hear everything that the CPD has to deal with is a good thing.
6/10/2010 02:13:00 PM
Agreed. As a citizen I like hearing about all the bedlam that takes place in districts inhabited by the element. I fear one day that's coming to a block near me; in fact, I'm sure it's already on its way.
Scanners are like guns. In the hands of the law-abiding, they are fine. In the hands of shitheads, problems result. However you end up cutting off your nose to spite your face when it comes to controlling either, when the real problem is the PEOPLE.
The good news is most of these idiots are functionally illiterate, stupid, and careless. It's almost like why bother..what's the difference whether they hear you on the radio and evade capture, or get arrested and end up on the streets next week anyway? Sisyphean feat if there ever was one
All jobs should be dispatched via PDT, with the radio used for emergency traffic...if we had PDT's that worked...in all cars.
I TOTALLY agree with you. Isn't that why they gave us PDT's? To eliminate air traffic? Regular jobs... throw them on the box. In progress or police needing assistance ... put it on the air. So much babbbbbble going on on the zone that when you need something you can't get on the air.
Send it over to your box....End of story
Remember those tornadoes from last week...you better believe I had my scanner going!
....uh....GET A LIFE!!!!!
Want to hear what is arguably the busiest police radio zone in the nation? GOOGLE "NYPD" and "Zone 22". This radio zone covers the 73rd (Brownsville) and the 75th (East New York) Precincts. Over a decade ago, these two adjoining Brooklyn precincts had an aggregate of 230 homicides in just one year. While the violence has slowed down considerably since, catch a hot weekend night on NYPD Zone 22.
Years ago, I did an ride-along on a steamy August night with squad detectives. It humps like you would not believe. Non-stop bloodshed. It's worse than our 007 and 011 sharing the same radio zone.
To better understand their transmissions, the dispatcher is called "Central", our 10-4 is "K" as in okay, a "bus" is an ambulance, a "10-13" (Police Calling for Help) is our 10-1. The pct. RMPs (Radio Motor Patrol or our beat cars) use the pct. prefix followed by alpha for dispatch from "Central". "P-Js" are high-rise housing projects.
This is a hypothetical exchange between 73-F and Central:
"73-Foxtrot to Central. This is a bonafide man shot at Livonia and Rockaway. Give us a bus."
"K, 3-F. Bus on the way."
"73-F, we've now got shots fired from the P-Js. Signal 10-13, Central"
"Brooklyn units on borough wide, 73-G has a 10-13 with a man shot and shots fired at Livonia and Rockaway in the 7-3. Sniper fire. Use caution. This is Zone 22 radio."
HOME COME THE I-PHONE CAN DO ALL THESE THING BUT IT STILL DROPS CALLS!
Scanners are like guns...You dont mind the good people having them.
A few years ago, 2001 or 2002, they tried the "digital radio" thing on Zone 7. It was a pilot program, and I guess if it worked there, there were going to gradually spread it to the other zones in the city.
It failed miserably.
Garbled ass transmissions, feedback, hard to hear anyone talking, people sounding like robots...they got rid of it and went back to analog.
Sometimes I get so tired of hearing "11-Dub" I just want to give my radio away to the first banger I see!
If the bangers/shitheads can handle hearing him for 8 hours, God bless 'em!
And when the my-t-fine Sgt isn't around, Bt. 1130 insists on filling the empty air with nasally whining about the typical West Side nonsense!
Calgon, take me away!
A massive emergency response exercise is scheduled for the Chicago area beginning Sunday.
Road closures and detours are possible in the Chicago area.
"It is a full-scale exercise, so residents can expect to see emergency responders looking and acting as if this was a real homeland security/domestic response mission,"
Monday Chicago's Office of Emergency Management will practice setting up a remote command center at Soldier Field to handle a large-scale disaster.
On Wednesday, Rush University Medical Center in Chicago will receive "suspected biological agent patients to decontaminate and medically evaluate."
On Wednesday evening, the CTA will stage a rail-car evacuation SWAT incident at 15th and Clark streets. Chicago police K-9 units will detect "simulated explosives manufactured by a terrorist group on a CTA train." A simulated explosion will occur from 10 p.m. Wednesday to 4 a.m. Thursday. There will be road closings in the area.
On Thursday there will be a simulated chemical explosion at the Nalco Co. plant at 6233 W. 66th St. in Chicago.
The five-day training exercise will run from Sunday through Thursday, June 17.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/06/emergency-drill-may-close-chicago-area-roads.html
Apple I-Pad also has this as an application.
Why is it that you guys are paranoid about anyone listening to your radio transmissions? The shitheads aren't smart enough to use scanners. The company of scanner hobbyists are the most ardent LEO supporters out there. And, you have no idea what you are asking for with digital radios. Good news is that a fully digital radio system will give you guys something to bitch about for years to come. They are costly and perform marginally. Ask a state trooper.
6/10/2010 10:21:00 AM
Thanks for the advice citizen. The shit heads definitely use scanners and look outs etc. Does not matter if it will cost 500 or 1000 they have the cash flow and will do what's necessary to protect so you're wrong. We are not concerned about upright citizens so don't read into anything. Stay safe.
Do you guys think anyone downtown gives a fuck? They all communicate by blackberry, and show up after the scene is secured.
All jobs should be dispatched via PDT, with the radio used for emergency traffic...if we had PDT's that worked...in all cars.
6/10/2010 10:53:00 AM
That's the way it was about 15 years ago. All assignments and details were given over pdt. Since so many pets were often out of commission people slowly went back to the radio.
The five-day training exercise will run from Sunday through Thursday, June 17.
http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/06/emergency-drill-may-close-chicago-area-roads.html
6/10/2010 10:54:00 PM
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Great. Just what we need during Puerto Rican Fest.
My bearcat works great!
Scanners can be modified to interface with your PC and use software to read your PDT screen.
SCC, as bad as this is, PLEASE let everyone know about the app that is called Police Recorder. It records everything and while it does, it shows your wallpaper on the screen so it appears nothing is happening. Please do not let people record you this way!
I agree that you have to be careful because you can easily end up on You Tube or some other internet site. However, anyone who records my conversation without my consent is going to jail for evesdropping.
Scanners can be modified to interface with your PC and use software to read your PDT screen.
6/11/2010 01:59:00 AM
Felony ! Serious charges for hacking a PDT or encrypted public safety network .
Oh, what am I thinking? The encrypted systems are so expensive, the city would never make the purchase, anyway.
Unless of course there is money in it for the mayor or the aldermen or their families
NYPD Zone 22 (476.9875 MHz) in Brooklyn is called "The Twilight Zone".
"Great. Just what we need during Puerto Rican Fest.
6/11/2010 01:04:00 AM"
when it rains, it pours.
"That's the way it was about 15 years ago. All assignments and details were given over pdt. Since so many pets were often out of commission people slowly went back to the radio.
6/11/2010 12:36:00 AM"
NO. That's not true at all. You weren't there.
You can still use car to car communications if you don't want to be heard
Ummmm don't the dispatchers usually put vice cases on the box without reading them out anyway ? They just tell you to read the narrative. B.F.D quit freaking out over stupid stuff.
And also during PR Fest, Brust and his band of merry morons schedule a CAR meeting for Area 5.
WTF? Doesn't one hand in this backward organization know what the other hand is doing?
Ham radios also pick up the zones. They can also talk on the zone too.
6/11/2010 01:59:00 AM
Felony ! Serious charges for hacking a PDT or encrypted public safety network .
6/11/2010 07:10:00 AM
Nope,public airwaves,no hacking of anyones system.
Anonymous said...
You can still use car to car communications if you don't want to be heard
6/11/2010 04:53:00 PM
My PDT monitor picks that up just fine.What ever is on your screen,it can be seen by another party.
As a long - time radio hobbyist and licensed amateur radio operator, let me take the time to help clear up some confusion:
1. The ECPA (Electronic Communications Privacy Act) specifically says that any person can buy, possess and use a radio receiver (Scanner) to listen to anything that isn't encrypted.
2. In the event that radio receivers face restrictions, FCC PR91-36, which is a "FCC Memorandum, Opinion and Order", exempts FCC licensed radio amateurs from local and state level laws regarding radios that can tune out of band.
3. Your radio frequencies, to include that of your PDT system is published at the FCC ULS Database. Your radio transmissions are public whether or not anyone likes it with the only exception being encryption.
APCO25 is used by licensed amateurs, as is something called D-Star. D-Star is the equivalent of Starcom21. They aren't really inter-operable, but you can call D-Star and Starcom close cousins.
Be careful who you accuse of being a criminal guys and gals. People who are radio geeks are your best asset, especially is they know enough to hold an FCC license.
Not everyone with an IPhone or radio equipment is a criminal. Although there are those who would argue, the best form of transparency is when citizens can tune in to see what is happening out there. Encryption costs major bucks, and poses serious technical problems which could cost some officer their safety at some point. Digital with encryption isn't in any way, a good comsec practice because it does have it's flaws.
The run of the mill street criminal has no idea how to use the information they hear in any manner that is effective as evidenced by the fact that they are still getting arrested, which means their techniques aren't working for them as far as avoiding law enforcement.
In the end, this is a whole lot to do about nothing, and a whole lot to do with being paranoid and rushing to judgement. Licensing the purchase, possession and use of radio receivers is not going to work in the least because they are already in the hands of too many people.
Digital capable scanners are not hard to come by, and only the most advanced people with competence in radio communications would dare to even buy one.
Some guy said:
"1. The ECPA (Electronic Communications Privacy Act) specifically says that any person can buy, possess and use a radio receiver (Scanner) to listen to anything that isn't encrypted. "
yeah, but there's also areas where local or state law trumps this. Check out Indiana's legislature.
Actually the newer radios we have now have digital capabilities already. 10 years ago there was a certain zone, for at least a month, that was digital and the dispatchers were heard but he po's weren't when listening on an analog scanner. I know one thing about it that was annoying was when po's were screaming and calling out chases the voices were so muffled that you couldn't hear what was being said.
yeah, but there's also areas where local or state law trumps this. Check out Indiana's legislature.
6/14/2010 09:16:00 AM
I've seen Indiana's laws on this, and it only says you cannot have a scanner on you in public, and you cannot have a scanner in your car unless you meet certain qualifications.
Beyond that, as long as you are in Indiana the rule is simply to keep your scanner inside your home or business. This law does not apply to Licensed Amateurs BTW due to PR91-36 and the state law specifically worded so as to exempt hams.
Scanners can be modified to interface with your PC and use software to read your PDT screen.
6/11/2010 01:59:00 AM
Felony ! Serious charges for hacking a PDT or encrypted public safety network .
6/11/2010 07:10:00 AM
This might not be true IF the PDT's are encrypted. If PDT traffic is not encrypted, then it IS lawfully monitored because your PDT traffic actually transmits a radio signal. Without your PDT transmitting a radio signal through an electronic interface, you would have absolutely no way to communicate with OEMC. LEADS, NCIC, or any other LEO network.
Here's what it is: Your computer is cabled in to an electronic interface which then produces what are known as packets. These packets are short bursts of electronic information that are then decoded on the other end by a computer cabled into the same interface you use in the car to transmit with. These electronic interfaces are made to read a specific "language" or "protocol".
You guys and gals got this wonderful ability for packet radio from licensed amateur radio operators who have been using packet communications since at least the late 60's.
So, for COMSEC to occur, you need to follow two rules: don't say anything on your PDT that you don't want read, or encrypt the system.
My best knowledgeable guesstimate is that no scanner user can use any interface available to read anything on the PDT since your PDT interfaces were not made using common packet language and that the packet language is specific to CPD alone. This means that even if your PDT is not encrypted, it would take one hell of a genius to decode your department's packets from the PDT transmissions.
It isn't the scanner that gets modified, it is the interface that gets modified by way of open source firmwear, but that's a little bit more technical than I think you guys and gals want to get. The firmwear (available computer language protocol) for radio interface devices are numerous, but almost always used only by licensed amateur operators for things like Packet, APRS, WEFAX, RTTY, Olivia, Hellschrieber, PSK, FSK, ASCII, ROS (a new mode only used in the U.S. between 1.25 meters and higher), and the list goes on. After all this has been said, you can bet that your PDT's are not monitorable.
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